Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, guys, welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are talking about season one, episode three.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: I'm still like Loki, expecting you to say, hey, guys, welcome back to Investigating Angel.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: I know. I literally have to make a concerted effort every single time we start an episode to be like, don't say Investigating Angel. Don't be like, I'm gonn say it. One of these days it's just gonna. It's gonna happen, and then I will. And then neither one of us will catch it here.
And I'll be like, hang on. I'll have to, like, insert a little note for me, guys. She clearly means Investigating Stranger Things. Don't know what she was on that day. God.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: It's a crossover episode, actually.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Weirdo.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Literally.
Yeah. I took a long time to not say, becoming Buffy, and then I would constantly have to sit and go, okay, which podcast am I on? And then. Yeah. But anyway, this is Investigating Stranger Things. Today we're talking about season one, episode three, Holly Jolly.
And this is really significant title because it's a Christmas episode.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Oh, is it?
Right, right.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: No, I was like, this is one of those titles where it's like, do we really need to sit and go into the significance of it? No, no, we don't. We all know what this is. Yeah.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: But I feel like if you like this episode, the episode title caught my eye right away, having watched, like, the rest of the show.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Yes. This was a big episode that a lot of people kept pointing back to once they found out about season five.
So, yeah, that'll be something to talk about once we get, you know, later on. Oh, yes.
Okay. So it's written. First episode, not written or directed by the Duffer brothers. It's written by Jessica Mecklenburg, who is the co executive producer for season one. She's also consulting producer for the Disney show Echo that just came out this past year. I think it was this past year. Maybe it was the year before.
And then she's been a producer on several. Several shows like Swing Town, Gypsy, the Twilight Zone, like the. The rebooted one in 2019, and then dope Sick. I've not watched any of those. But she predominantly seems to work with Netflix or Hulu or other shows like that.
But she wrote this episode, and then this episode is directed by Sean Levy, who we talked about him Way back in a couple episodes ago.
But yes, it's really interesting because when I was watching it from the get go, I felt like something was different about this episode. This one is the first episode of the season that I really like locked in for. I feel like, especially coming off of season or episode two, but something about the way this was directed and the way it was written.
Like, the Duffers are still very green. And I think that is reflected in the way they sometimes write and definitely in their directing. It's not bad, but I think that there is just a.
Interesting way that Shawn Levy shows a lot of things non verbally in this episode that I was kind of like, ooh. Like there's interesting things happening on camera. That's not just, you know, hey, this is what we want you to see. It's also a lot of like, like hints and nods and non verbal communication and stuff. So it was, for me, it was really, really fun to sit there and kind of dissect and stuff because I felt like there was a lot of stuff I could like, pick up on. But what did you think of the episode?
[00:04:04] Speaker B: No, I thought it was really good. I just. I'm still getting used to, like, how much happens in one episode on these episodes. Like, I just feel like so many things that are important happen and I have to, like, you can't really put your phone down. Like, especially if you're sitting down to do a podcast. Like, sorry, you can't really be on your phone. I said that completely backwards.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yes, I know what you meant.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: You can't pick your phone up when you're watching episodes because I feel like if you miss a scene down. Yeah, I meant the complete opposite. I don't know what, what I'm on, but. No, I just feel like this was. This was a really great episode. I think it works because we're coming off of the last episode, like ending on a cliffhanger where, like, Barb disappears somewhere. And, like, you want to know what happens?
Obviously they're still looking for Will. I really like how we can see Wynonna Ryder's character, what's her name, Joyce. She's like, unraveling. But also we're starting to see that, like, maybe she's not as crazy as people think she is.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: And then obviously the ending of the episode, and I just feel like so much happens. Like we're learning more about the Hawkins Lab.
We're learning more about Eleven's past, which is like, it just gets darker and darker. It's almost like they Were testing, like, how much fear she can handle, how much pain she can handle, like, what. What are they doing to these kids at Hawkins Lab? And, yeah, it's just.
I just love how there's so much in every episode, and I felt like this one was really important for, like, the lore that we're gonna get to know about the show in general moving forward. We get to see the demon thing, the Demogorgon, kind of more clearly this time. So that was really interesting. And then it, like, it's like coming through the wall. And I'm like, ah,
[00:05:57] Speaker A: we're obviously still dealing with repercussions, like, we're going to be doing dealing with repercussions for the rest of the season. But I feel like this is the first episode where it was like, okay, we're now starting to, like, get somewhere with a little bit of stuff.
It wasn't just set up. It felt like, okay, now we're, like, really getting into some interesting territory here. And again, like you said, they did such a good job with the last episode. We're like, okay, what's the dynamic between Nancy and Steve going to be?
And then, you know, Jonathan taking the picture and then obviously, Joyce, and then, yeah, Hopper checking out the lab. Like, there were a lot of things that we were like, oh, okay, we really want to know what's happening. And then, yeah, it's just like Mike
[00:06:37] Speaker B: kind of Switch up on 11 for the first time.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: And yeah. Yeah, just a lot of interesting dynamics in this.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: It really. It had me very, very interested. And I also feel like, too, like, I know we're only on the third episode of the season, but the seasons are so short, and like you said, they pack so much into it. Yeah. I'm like, oh, we're finally getting to the point where I feel like there's stuff to kind of talk about a little bit more. It's not like we said, set up where it was like, okay, and then these are characters we don't really know much about. But now it's like, okay, we can actually start talking about the repercussions of things these characters are doing, you know, which is where it gets juicy.
Okay, so this is the first episode of the season to feature scenes set within the Upside Down. And it's the only episode of the first season in which Ted Wheeler does not appear on screen. Kind of crazy. I have to look it up. At one point when I was, like, looking through the trivia for the show.
There's actually quite a few episodes that Ted Wheeler appears in which was shocking because I didn't think he was in the show that much.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: But he's actually in a.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Say, I think he might be in it more than Karen or something. I don't remember. I don't remember what it was. There's a character, there's a relatively big character that Ted is in the show more than that character, I can't remember. Or, or like really close off to look it up.
Not me, just like, you know, citing facts without backing myself up. But I'll have to look it up and let you guys know because, you know, it's just. It's interesting. Anyway. Okay, so this episode kind of plays off of a couple of other ones we've talked already about, like Poltergeist.
But Close Encounters of the Third Kind is another one, which was written and directed by Steven Spielberg and that tells the story of Roy Neary, an everyday blue collar worker in Indiana whose life changes after an encounter with a ufo. When developing the character of Joyce, the Duffer brothers talked a lot about Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters because for much of the show, Winona is entirely on her own. And to the outside world, she seems absolutely bonkers. In Holly Jolly Joyce, Joyce tips over the edge and chooses to fully embrace the supernatural happenings in her house as reality, mirroring Roy's own character arc. And Matt Duffer says that Joyce's obsession grew out of Winona Ryder's approach to the character. She's this specific personality. It made us start to think about Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters.
I just feel like writers acting is just getting better and better with each episode. Like, I'm locked in when I'm watching her on screen. The way that she is able to play, play Joyce as this, like, neurotic character, but, like, so determined and not neurotic in the sense where I'm like, watching her and I'm like, oh, she's completely bananas. Like, she's cuckoo. I'm watching her and I'm like, no, girl, you go like, I. I sympathize with her. And I'm also kind of like, yeah, no, keep, keep doing what you're doing. You're the only one in this freaking town who seems to like, have an idea somewhat of what's happening or at least is like, in touch with the supernatural. And like, let's follow this thread because I want to know, like, what you're gonna find at the end you.
But then also, like, things are happening, so keep going.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say I feel like.
I feel like it Would be different. It would feel different if we weren't already getting hints since the first episode that something otherworldly is happening.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: So it's almost like you're more likely to sympathize with Joyce and be like, hey, maybe she has a point. Like, she's unraveling. And obviously to the outside, like, to Jonathan, she looks kind of like she's losing her mind to everyone else, like, to Karen Wheeler she looks like she's losing, like everybody kind of looking in on her can, can see that. But as the audience, like, we know something is happening and is it like, do we know if this is connected to that? Like, we, we don't know. And I, I love that they play the mystery. Like, I don't really remember what the deal with the lights is. To be honest. I feel like I should know this, but I don't really remember. So. Like it right now, not knowing. I'm just like, are the two connected? Like, I know this show likes to make, likes to do twists. Like, I know this show likes to, like, you know, if you see something, it's like not really what you're expecting, it turns out to be not what you expected. So I like that a lot about it.
But yeah, I think it's smart that they, they're like doing it this way with her, she's playing it this way because it does make you feel sympathetic for her in this specific setting.
Because we know something else is going on.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: The show is aligning us directly with Joyce and everything that. Well, I won't say everything, but most of what she knows, we also know versus with Hopper. We're kind of watching him and we know more information than Hopper does. And so we're kind of like, yeah, yeah, okay, check there, check there. Yeah. Like when he's talking about looking for the kid, thinking right now that Eleven and Will are the same person. You know, we're over here going, okay, no, you're chasing a completely different thing. Thing. So I talked about this earlier, but, like, I really love this episode. Not just from a subject matter, but from like the visual one. I think a big part of that is because it's Sean Levy directing, who he has quite a few films under his belt at this point. I mean, he did Night at the Museum, Date Night, Free Guy. He knows how to stage a shot and block his characters in really interesting and non verbal ways. And I think that's something that has been missing a little bit over the past couple of episodes.
I also felt like this episode was a little bit More cohesive thematically. There are a lot of references to the importance of being authentically seen and how that connects us, and then also, like, what happens when you're not seen. So we have Joyce working overtime to find Will, and because of it, she sees his attempts to reach out to her, which is contrasted by Barb attempting to reach Nancy when she's being attacked by the Demogorgon, and Nancy ends up ignoring it. We have Nancy struggling to connect with Steve, feeling watched and observed by others after having sex, but then actually being seen by Jonathan.
Those are just a few. There's several more that happen throughout the episode, and we'll talk about as we go along. World Turned Upside down says that initially the Duffers had planned to direct all eight episodes of the first season. But as the production got underway, they realized they still needed to devote time and attention to the scripts for the latter half of the season. So executive producer Sean Levy stepped in, taking the reins of the third and fourth installments, each of which contain pivotal plot points and emotionally challenging scenes. And I know from having seen bits of the documentary for season five, Sean Levy does the same thing as well. Like, initially, it was going to be the Duffers, and then he had to step in for. For a few episodes because they were running out of time, still trying to write the finale.
So. Yeah. All right, let's jump in. So we start right back where we left off, which, thank God, I hate it when you start an episode after a cliffhanger and they decide to, like, go to a different scene or something. They do that. And I think it's Innocence on Buffy. Yeah, it's with Spike and Drew.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: And you're like, no, I don't care about.
Take us to Angel.
Come on.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: We see Barb, her eyes open, and she is just looking horrible. She's got, like, covered in, like, mucus, like, substance. Her glasses are cracked, her face is bloody. She's gassing for air, and she's lying at the bottom of Steve's pool, but there's no water in it, obviously.
There's, like, moldy growth going, growing around her. And I. The script implies that it's supposed to be the same stuff we found, like, inside of the shed where Will was taken. There's, like, strange spore, like, particles dancing in the air. The script says Barbara doesn't know it, but she's in the Nether. She staggers to her feet, and then it's like, help. Somebody help. And then all of a sudden, there's, like, this figure that we kind of See the demogorgon a little bit more clearly than we've seen it before. That's in the same.
In the pool with her. She tries to, like, get out. She's scrambling up the wall. She's collapsing back into the pool. Meanwhile, back in the normal world, we have Steve and Nancy making out. Still, the script says that Steve's clearly done this before. Nancy is nervous and awkward, but she's getting into it. And then as they're kissing, she hears Barb screaming to her, like, very faint, very far away. And she's kind of like. You could tell. She's like, did I hear something? Did I not? And then Steve asks her, what's the matter? And she's like, nothing. And then continues kissing. Again. We see Barb screaming in the upside down. And she's saying, nancy, please again tries to get out of the pool. And there's flashes back and forth of Barb trying to hold on to the handles to get out of the pool. And Nancy and Steve holding each other's hands. So lots of, like, connecting and not connecting contrasts there.
So then we end the scene with, well, first Barb tries to get out of the pool, and then she starts to try to head towards Steve's house, but then she sees it. What looks like his home is abandoned. It's dark, it's covered in vines. And you can tell, like, that moment of hesitation and being like, hang on, where am I? Is partly why she ends up getting pulled backwards again.
And then the scene ends with her just getting sucked down into the empty pool. And then her scream cuts off. And I know we probably could just be like, oh, my gosh, what happens to her? But I want to talk about the fact that Barb dies in this moment, because for one.
For one, I feel like it's obvious.
I feel like it's obvious. She does.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: Well, I feel like they could have made it so that. I mean, the first time I watched it, I remember thinking, oh, like, we don't know yet, because, yeah, we haven't seen her in my brain. I'm like, I haven't seen a body. So technically, she's not dead. And also, she's in this, like, alternate universe, so who knows what the rules are there?
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Portal. Right?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So.
But damn, you don't say.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah, damn, you don't say.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: You know, people are still talking about Barb.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Well, and that's what I wanted to go into.
So, okay, the death of Barb mirrors the death of Tina from Nightmare on Elm street, and Nancy Wheeler is Probably named after Nancy Thompson from that. That character from that movie who, you know, tries to discover the true killer behind her friend's death. So this scene was the one that Shannon Purser actually auditioned for or like, auditioned with. And she said it was very weird because she'd never met the Duffers before, and they had to go in, like, this tiny room, and she's like, am I about to scream bloody murder in front of these two men that I've never met? She says, I just went for it. I think that's sort of my approach on the day, too. Acting is so weird because you have to be both very self aware and also able to just completely let go. Although Barb has only a few scenes, she struck a powerful chord for viewers. After Stranger Things debuted, the hashtag justice for Barb began trending. And there was even speculation that the Duffers might find a way to rescue her from the upside down. There's just something so relatable about this girl who is uncomfortable and trying to figure out who she is and wants to be popular, but kind of resents the popular kids because she feels left out, Purser says. I think more of us than not were not the really cool, hot, popular kids in high school. We were just kind of trying to get by without being too embarrassed. And there's an article from Screen Rant that says, seeing as Barb served as a symbol of innocence, viewers were very upset. Upset about her sudden death. A Justice for Barb movement came together after the character was killed and seemingly forgotten by the town. By the end of Stranger Things season one, though, the outcry was justifiable. Some fans thought it got out of hand, and a few even deemed Barb an overrated character. Those who pushed for justice when it came to Barb argue that she was only used as a plot device to further Nancy's arc, seeing as Barb was already in Nancy's shadow at the stereotype as the stereotypical nerdy friend. Did you just say. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry. Sometimes characters are written for that.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: This is like if the Buffy fandom decided to fixate on, like, Jessie.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yes, yes, 100%.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Like the Jesse to Xander. That's what Barb is, I think. Except I feel like they do a better job of, like. Like, Barb haunts Nancy's narrative, I think,
[00:18:36] Speaker A: for the rest of the season a
[00:18:37] Speaker B: lot more than like they did with Xander and Jesse. But it's kind of like that's, that's, that's the connection that I make, which is why I Don't really get the barb hyp, because I'm just like, yeah. Oh, like, yeah, she is a plot device.
Nobody come for me, please.
[00:18:56] Speaker A: Well, I mean, okay, who's that? Vanessa Hudgens. But like, people die. Have you seen that video?
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah, during COVID During COVID people die.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it's sad, but, like, did she say, like, inevitable?
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Dude, Covid was a crazy time. Remember when all those celebrities made a video singing that one?
[00:19:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Think of all the people.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: So embarrassing.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: And they're in there. They're posting from their beautiful backyards in sunny California.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: They're in like, commercial in the middle
[00:19:31] Speaker A: of the frigid Midwest having to wipe down our freaking groceries.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: I had to soak my fruits and vegetables and a solution, literally.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Tabby and Leah came to stay with me during that time. And they had to, like, mask up and wear gloves every time they pumped gas and, like, only stopped for potty breaks and drove straight through.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: But no, guys, we felt so much better when those celebrities posted that video.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Like, listen, their hearts were in the right place, but they were. That is the definition of not understanding privilege.
They're like. And then some of them were on vacation in other countries, like, very clearly not isolating, like on. On the beaches of like, you know, I know, Costa Rica or something. And like, man, guys, just hang on. Get through this. We're all in this together. Sitting through this.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: You peasants in your little tiny apartments with your gray skies.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: There's this moment in Emperor's new group, which I still need to show to you, where this character named Isma is the bad lady. And she's having to sit. She's trying to take over the throne. And she's sitting, having to listen to the peasants coming in and giving their complaints. And she's like. And she's listening and this guy is complaining to her. And she goes, what? What is it you're complaining about again? And what, What? What don't you have? And he's like, food. And she goes, you should have thought of that before you became peasants.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: That really does feel like what social media is like today. Actually, if you go on talk.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: That was Wild Back in 2003, whenever it came out now it's like just
[00:21:13] Speaker B: now, influencers are like, I just went on a $150,000 shopping spree at Chanel. Do you want to see all my bags?
[00:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Trump's granddaughter being like, guys, I took my secret service with me to this grocery store. It's like, supposed to be the most expensive grocery store in America or whatever spent 200 on groceries, which is a good amount of money, goes back to her, like, dorm room or wherever she's living, and took one bite and was like, all this food is the nastiest thing I've ever eaten. Or something like that. Yeah.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Okay, well, I live in Canada. Those groceries would have been $500.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: So true. Yeah, well, at this rate, we're getting there. So, you know. Yeah.
Anyway, okay, so some people thought that Barb was already in. I'm like, how do we segue back?
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you, Brad. How about you, Brad?
Brad is obsessed with Barb.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Max. Max, Brad.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Max. Brad is obsessed. Our friend Brad is like a Barb. Stan.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Well, okay, so Brad thinks Barb was in Nancy's shadow as the stereotypic nerdy friend and that it did a disservice to the character. And then on the other hand, other people thought, like me, thought that the justice for Barb movement was insulting and viewed Barb as a boring. Oh, no, I didn't think that.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Oh, I was gonna say, wow, you're really.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: I thought this was the other side.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Sorry, right now.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: So some people were like, barb was already in Nancy's shadow as a stereotypic nerdy friend. And they're like, it is what it is. The justice for Barb movement is insulting and viewed Barb as a boring minor character who didn't add much to the bigger picture. The push to bring Purser back or hints at her survival made the discussion even more controversial. Like, obviously, social media was already a thing, but I cannot tell you, this was one of the first things that I remember genuinely, like, truly trending. Yeah. I remember this is back when Twitter is, like, in its heyday. Yeah. And people were just like, justice for Barb. And I personally was sitting there going, like, she's. She was always cannon fodder.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: I was like, barb, who, like, she's
[00:23:20] Speaker A: cute and, like, yeah, it's really sad, but, like, people die.
You guys have to die, I think.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Exactly. And that's. That's how I kind of see it. I feel like when you're watching a show, and I don't know if that's because we grew up on, like, Buffy and, like, other shows from the 90s where, like, people would just get killed for no reason and you just lost the character. But.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: And then we'd be like, what? Murder?
[00:23:44] Speaker B: What murder?
No, but at the same time, I feel like a lot of characters get resurrected, so maybe that's why. But I think nowadays, especially, I think since Netflix started, like, you know, all of this stuff that. The way people talk about shows nowadays, I think people really, like, personally identify with characters, and I can see why certain people would identify with Barb and get, like, offended or sad that this character gets killed off and maybe not even, like, given a chance to have more screen time or more storylines or whatever. But, yeah, I mean, characters die. Like, this is a story at the end of the day, and it has to be pushed along, and it's like, yes, Barb died so that this. So that, like, it affects Nancy, who is a main character.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Like, we're following. Like, I never saw Barb as a main character.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: So she's dispensable.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Yeah. At this point, we don't really know anybody. Like, if Steve had died or even, I guess Karen has more screen time in this one. But I was gonna say even Karen or Ted or at this point, if anybody other than Joyce or Mike or Elle or, like, the core boys, the boys died. Like, even Will were attached to Will because one, he's a child, but also we're seeing him through the eyes of Jonathan and Joyce and the effect and then Mike. But if. If Will died, we wouldn't be, like, devastated, because at this point, we just don't know enough about any of these characters.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Well, I feel like they've positioned certain characters as being, like, central to the story. So you have, like, the boys, you have Joyce, you have Jonathan, you have Nancy. Because we've been following her around. Like, obviously, she is a focus of the show.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: You know, we're going through her journey of, like, getting to know Steve and, like, losing her virginity and doing all that. So, like, obviously, Nancy is, like, a main character and then Hopper. So I feel like these are the people that we're following around. So these are the main characters, which, like, if any of them were to die, I feel like I would have been shocked. Even third episode in, like, if Hopper were to die, I would have been like, what?
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Like.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Like, we've been following him around for three episodes, and he's just gonna get killed off like this. But Barb was just never like, that character.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Yeah, she. At that point, she only served as a person that was not a parent. For Nancy to be able to voice what was going on in her head. And this is just a continuation of that, you know?
[00:26:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: So, yeah, Matt Duffer says people get very frustrated, understandably, that the town doesn't seem to be really dealing with Barb. Matt Duffer said in an interview last year, this is. Was, like, back in 2017, I think that stuff is all happening. We're just not spending any screen time on it. Season one actually takes place over the course of six or seven days. It's a really short period of time. So this is all, like, major spoilers for everybody that hasn't seen the rest of the season. But I don't know, when I watch this, I. In my mind, there was never any doubt that Barb was dead. And, like, when it gets confirmed later on, I was like, didn't we already know that? Didn't we already know where Was fair. But, yeah. So anyway, Barb's dead. Next morning, RIP Barb again. Effort's new group. Isma's morning the emperor. And she goes, well, he can't get any debtor. And then back to work and ends
[00:27:00] Speaker B: the wake us with Barb.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: She can't get any better, or she can she. It's supernatural. We don't know exactly.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: We don't know. We didn't see a body.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: So. I love, love, love this shot. It's quiet, it's still. It's so different from everything that just happened right before with Barb and even Nancy and Steve having sex. It's like the lights coming back in. Nancy's just sitting at the end of the bed. The way they positioned it, she has her back to us, like, almost the entire time. Steve is just. He's turned away from her sleeping, and she's looking back at him, and we're going, okay, what's going on in your head, Nancy? Are you regretting this? Are you insecure? Or are you, like, just wanting validation? Are you, like, what. What's going on?
[00:27:46] Speaker B: When I was watching this scene, I remembered the conversation we had in the last episode where you asked me if Nancy is acting unlike herself the way Barb was saying she is, or if she is actually doing what she wants to do. And as. As I was watching this scene, I.
I was thinking two things. I was thinking, is this show trying to be, like, you know, portray that experience of a girl having sex for the first time and feeling like everybody can see, like, a sign on her head saying, I had sex? Are they portraying Nancy kind of questioning if Steve's intentions are true?
Are they portraying Nancy being like, oh, my God, I made a mistake. This isn't me?
Like, I feel like there's so many ways that you could look at this.
And I think based on this scene, I would say that I feel like Nancy feels like she has done something that is unlike her. Like, she did something that maybe she thought she was ready for.
But maybe now she's reconsidering that. Yeah, but it could be a lot
[00:28:53] Speaker A: of things which is relatable as she just runs reassurance from Steve that that's not going to change anything, like his feelings for her, all that stuff. Because you can see that Nancy has really fallen hard for this guy. We've seen that over the past couple episodes, but we're not quite sure where Steve's at with her because we know he has had a conquest after conquest. And so this moment where she leans over and she kind of leans towards him, which is also towards the camera, and kind of shakes his. His head, he grumbles and then rolls away from her. And you can kind of see a little bit of her hurt there. And there's almost this, oh, gosh, is this going to turn? Am I going to become another conquest? Which then has her sitting there going, oh, did I actually do something that's not like me? Because she's thinking, this was a moment of connection shown by the hands, them holding each other's hands. This is a moment of connection for her. Was it not for you? And that leads into this whole episode of Nancy kind of being like, does Steve said, see me? Does he not? And also the absence of Barb is really felt in this episode because who does Nancy normally talk about all these things with? So she's partially looking for Barb because she wants to be like, hey, I. What, I need to apologize. But two, I want to talk about this stuff. And so for the first time in the series, we're shut out a little bit from what Nancy's thinking and feeling. And it's just all non verbal, which I think is really interesting.
Then she kind of seems upset. She grabs one of Steve's sweatshirts and then sneaks out of the house. There's no sign of Barb. She like hears something, it kind of spooks her. And then she walks back home. She's trying to sneak back into the house. And then Karen turns on the light and is so unhappy. And then Nancy's like, oh my gosh, you scared me. And Karen's like, I scared you?
Nancy's like, I love Karen. I should have called. I felt like Karen handled this beautifully, honestly.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: That was my Karen.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Karen is so ahead of her time.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: I feel like.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: I agree, I agree. I don't think most 80s moms would have.
[00:30:59] Speaker B: Exactly. I feel like, like in the 80s, like if we were watching a movie in the 80s, the mom would have been like, you're grounded. Go Upstairs, and you're never allowed out of your room ever again. But, yeah, this was like. Like you could see Karen trying to connect with Nancy and, like, that this is a home where, like, you can go and talk to her, which I really like, because I feel like we don't really see parents like that very often.
[00:31:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: In TV shows.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: I do also want to point out that it's really wild that she's aware when Nancy hasn't come home and stuff, but she's not aware that there's a. An actual other child that's living in her basement right now.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Seriously?
[00:31:37] Speaker A: No.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Did they just not go in the basement?
[00:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think she does. It's crazy, but Karen's like, where have you been? We agreed on 10. Nancy's very defensive. After the assembly, some friends wanted to grab something to eat. I didn't think it would be a big deal. Karen's like, you didn't think to call me and let me know with everything that's been going on? Nancy's like, I just didn't realize it was so late. I'm sorry, Mom. What more do you want? Like, again, very, like, petulant, very defensive. And I read this entire sequence, like, as Nancy, she seems almost on the verge of tears as she's talking to Karen. Like, Karen sees the sweatshirt, and then Nancy says, it's Steve's, and then in the script, says, everything starts to click to Karen now.
And I don't know about you, but this scene reminded me very, very briefly of Innocence, with Buffy coming back in after seeing angel and then going up the stairs and Joyce having a similar conversation. Obviously, like, you look, like. Just feeling like something's different. Yeah. And then Buffy's going up the stairs. And I think I really love, like, how stairs are such a great visual device in media that often conveys so many different things. So the newest season of Bridgerton, There's a beautiful shot between the two main characters that are in love, but they're forbidden from being together. Because I love a forbidden love. You need to. Okay. Watch the new season. Leia.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: I can't. I'm not a bridge. I'm not a Bridgerton person.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: Oh, but it's so good, Leia.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: I know. I heard, but I really tried. I really tried to watch it, but I just could not get into it.
[00:33:09] Speaker A: You have to find the season that clicks with you, I think, because each season is so different. This one is my new favorite. This is my favorite season of all of them. Like, it's so no it's honestly very beautifully done. Like they did. They did a good job of just letting things linger.
But, yeah, so she's a maid and he's a nobleman. And they can't be together, obviously, because they're coming from different classes and stuff, and they. Visually, it's like Cinderella essentially.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Crack.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. There's this beautiful moment. Leia. So, like, the premise of it is, this has nothing to do with the episode, but I just want to tell you anyway. The premise of it is, like, she's a maid. She goes to this ball and it's a masquerade. He sees her, falls for. She falls for him, and then she leaves. Like Cinderella, he has no idea who she is, but she obviously know who's he is. So he's searching for her. He's going around trying to see every maiden. He ends up coming to the house that she works at and is talking to her stepm. Stepsister. And there's a one moment where her stepsister's, like, a little quirky, kind of a little socially awkward. And he's sitting and talking with her, and he's fully engaging with the stepsister, even though she's telling him, like, the weirdest story. And Sophie is her name, is watching him from a crack in the door. And there's this beautiful orchestral Enchanted by Taylor Swift that plays. And she's sitting there and her friend, this butler, comes by and he goes, he's looking for you. And she goes. She watches him and she goes, look how kind he is with her as he's laughing at her step. Stepsister's like, silly joke. And then he goes, go in there. Tell him who it is. Tell him it's you. And she goes, no, he's not looking for me. He's only looking for that specific version of me, the Silver Lady. And I'm not the silver Lady. And it, like.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: So it's like Cinderella.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: It's Cinderella. And it's like the way that they just.
It's just so beautiful. Anyway, but there's this beautiful moment where they both come into the house together side by side, but then she has to go back downstairs to be a maid. And he's going up, upstairs to his rooms. And there's this wonderful moment where as he's traveling up the stairs, she's walking next to the stairs, and he's looking down at her and she's looking up at him. And it's such a visual representation of the class divide. And then she disappears, obviously, underneath the stairs.
And so, like, it gives Like a visual representation of the separation of their worlds. But then there's also the power dynamics. So I don't know if you guys have seen that TikTok analysis of the guy talking about Princess Diaries, too, with Mia Thermopolis. And then Nicholas, there's like, a horseshoe shaped staircase, and he wants the throne, she wants to keep the throne, but she has to marry someone. And so they're like, bantering back and forth, and as they're both arguing, one of them will take a step up the stairs opposite the other person, and then the other one will also take a step up the stairs and then advance farther and it becomes a power play back and forth visually. So, like, you know, and then obviously, it represents, like, the highs and lows of life. We have Rocky climbing up to the Philadelphia Museum of Arts.
And then, of course, transitions in life, such as moving from childhood to adulthood. So Nancy going up these stairs, just like Buffy going up the stairs, is showing that they're growing up. And in a lot of ways, that means leaving your parents behind, as she does with Karen. And so that's why this scene is so pivotal, because Karen's recognizing that. And I think that's why Karen doesn't pursue Nancy and lets her go, because she's like, this is part of growing up. I have to let her come to me. And she does by the end, you know, So I love that.
So anyway, Karen tells her, I know it's hard to believe, but I was a teenager once, too. You can talk to me, okay? Whatever happened? And then Nancy literally just on the verge of tears, mom, nothing happened. The script says Karen stares down her daughter. She knows she's lying, but she has no idea what to do about it. And it crushes her. And then Nancy reiterates it, says, can I please go?
Like, Karen just handles it well. She just lets her go. And the script says Karen feels like she's losing her daughter. That's so sad.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: She did such a good job, though.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: She did. And it was. She was rewarded for it. Because then Nancy came back later on and actually opened up to her. Yeah, he's about some stuff, you know,
[00:37:18] Speaker B: I feel like the harder you push your kids, sometimes the further away they get. Like, they. Yeah, they push you away if you're trying too hard. And I feel like this was a great example of, like, letting your child know that you're there for them and they can talk to you. Because I feel like, especially like in the 80s, like, I feel like talking about your feelings was not.
It was like A stigma around it almost.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: Like, you couldn't really. You shouldn't really talk about your, like, feelings with people. But like, her letting Nancy know that you can come and talk to me, it's like an invitation that if she hadn't said that, I don't think Nancy would have felt comfortable coming to her being like, hey, something's wrong with Barb. You know, so. I really love that scene.
[00:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah, go Karen.
Yep. I know. And that's like one of the hardest things to do. Especially, you know, I think about my kids now. You know, as they get older, I'm slowly releasing them more and more and allowing them freedoms and just letting them be the people that they're going to become. But when they're so little, they're so dependent on you, and it's hard sometimes to be like, I see you making mistakes, or I could help you figure these things out. But then you have to also let them make those mistakes and trust themselves and then also come back to you when they want to, like at the end of the day. And I think so many parents, myself included, forget this. The connection and the relationship is always more important than being right. Yeah. Or having controlling the child.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: Always.
[00:38:48] Speaker A: And so there are so many times where I have to tell myself, oh my gosh, reach out in love, not with control.
Because sometimes it's so easy to just be like, I want to protect you. Or sometimes I'm like, I know better. And even now my kids are 10 and 8. Like, we're not even teenagers or they're not even teenagers yet. But I'm happy to already kind of do that. And I can't imagine, if I was in Karen's shoes, I'd want to be like, no, sit down, you're gonna tell me. And then. Yeah, that's probably.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: I feel like parents who are controlling end up having kids who lie to them, who go behind their back, who do all the things that they want to do anyway. They just don't tell their parents. And they almost like they do it more because it's something that's forbidden, right?
[00:39:30] Speaker A: Yep. Or they. The opposite is they just don't. And then they end up being stifled. And then they hit their 20s and 30s and they never had that so called rebellious phase where they tried things and exerted their independence. And then they're now stunted at 20 and 30 years old and have some sort of regression. Like, I see that happen a ton in the circles that I grew up with where everything was very high control.
So it's very sad.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Like, they almost want to get it out of their system.
[00:39:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to. As human beings. We have to. It's called breaking away. And usually, like, usually it's. Those are the type of people that are heavily enmeshed with their parents and come from a high authoritarian household and never don't understand that they are autonomous people separated from their parents and the rules that they. They put down. And, yeah, we all have to go through that.
It's developmentally appropriate. Anyway. Okay, so now we're in the buyer's house, and Jonathan wakes up to the sound of Joyce being like, will. Will, can you hear me? Will? And he's like, what in the world? He, like, gets up and goes into Will's room, and Joyce is sitting at the edge of the bed, surrounded by every single lamp, like, in the house. And she's rocking back and forth, talking to the lamps, going, will, come on, baby, just talk to me. And Jonathan's like, oh, she's lost it now. And he's very kind. He comes in. Joyce looks completely awful. Like, her face is pale. Her eyes are red. You can see, like, tear streaks. And she looks so tired. And she's like, jonathan, Will's talking to me. And she points to the lights, and she's like, I know. I know. I know, Jonathan. I know it's crazy. Just watch. And he's like, okay, Mom.
And then he listens and watches. And the moment his eyes, like, flick away, we see one of the light bulbs just kind of, like, briefly flicker. And Joyce is like, oh, my gosh. See? Did you see? And Jonathan's like, it's just the electricity, Mom. He's like, it's been acting up. It's like the same thing with the phone. That's all it is. And then she says, no, something was coming through the wall. And then Jonathan's like, what about the wall? And she's like, I just know Will is here. Can't you feel him? And Jonathan's like, no, no, I cannot.
[00:41:40] Speaker B: Yeah, because Jonathan's literally putting the entire family on his back right now. Like, he's taking care of everything.
Sorry, girl. He can't feel it.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: His social life is completely falling apart, too. Like, yeah, every aspect of this kid's, like, development is completely stunted. This poor guy. And then Winona. Or Winona. Joyce is like, maybe I get. Maybe if I get more lights. And he's like, no, mom, you need to stop this. He goes, everyone's looking for him. He's like, but this isn't helping. He says, not helping. Me or you? And then she's like, I'm sorry. And then he says, can you please just get more sleep for me, Mom? And then she says, yes, I will. I promise. I need to just sit here for a minute. So he goes, okay, I'll go make breakfast. And then in the Wheelers in the basement, 11 is on the couch playing again with the walkie talkie. And we have Mike, Lucas, and Dustin huddled around the table trying to figure out what they're going to do. And then they're like, okay, so if we just tell our parents that we have club after school, then that means we can go, you know, look for Will some more.
Lucas and Dustin still think that 11 is super weird. Mike asks them to trust him. And then he's like, did you bring the supplies? And then Lucas brought binoculars. Like, a bunch of, like, weapons. Slingshot, hammer, wrist rocket. Dustin's like, you're gonna take the Demogorgon out with a slingshot? Lucas is like, first of all, it's a wrist rocket. Second of all, the Demogorgon's not real. It's made up. But if there is something out there, I'm gonna shoot it in the eye.
And then Mike's like, okay, okay, Dustin, what did you get? Dustin's like, the essentials known to man.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: And is he wrong? We need fuel.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: We need fuel. He's like, you know, for our battery. And then he's like, what do we need a weapon for? He's like, we got her. And he points to 11, who looks so bored with everything.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Harder. Not harder.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: You are totally the destin of the situation. You would show up with all the snacks for sure.
[00:43:34] Speaker B: We can't do anything if we're hungry.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: It's absolutely, absolutely true. Yeah. Brain fuel.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: Am I right or am I right?
[00:43:41] Speaker A: You are completely right. So Dustin walks over and picks up the Falcon toy That is near 11. And he's like, well, I bet she can make this fly. And he starts like, like, raising it over 11. He's like, like, here you go. And then he, like, drops it. Nothing happens. Raise it again. Drops it. Nothing happens. And she's just looking at him like, seriously. Lucas is like, idiot. And Mike's like, she's not a dog. And Dustin says, I'm telling you. And then Karen interrupts his and says, boys, it's time for school. They quickly go up the stairs. Mike tells, did they sleep there or
[00:44:13] Speaker B: did they just come over in the morning?
[00:44:14] Speaker A: I think they came over in the morning, but damn, we don't know it. Like, it's the 80s?
No. No, neither does Karen. I don't think Karen slept at all either, which makes me think that they probably didn't spend the night because there's no way all of those kids down there wouldn't cause Karen to go down and figure out like what's going on.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: Maybe Karen has just decided that she doesn't want to know what's going on in the basement because it's just so dirty down there. Maybe she's just like, you know what? That's Mike's.
And like, you know, like sometimes like I know people who just don't clean their kids bathrooms or like they have. Or like their husbands have a bathroom and they will never go in there and it's the husband's responsibility to clean the bathroom. They just don't want to. They don't want to know what happens in there.
[00:45:03] Speaker A: And like I'm pretty sure her laundry room is down there. So she hasn't done laundry then maybe it's not.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: Maybe you're just assuming that maybe they do things differently in Hawken.
[00:45:15] Speaker A: Yeah, they do their laundry in the river out back.
Yeah, full on 50s wife. She has the whole like washboard and everything is out there doing it by hand.
All right, so Mike tells eleven to stay down if she gets hungry, eat Dustin's snacks. Karen's like Michael. And he's like coming.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: This was so funny.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: I love it.
Son does that all the time. Like having a kid near that age now I'm like oh yep, that's, that's definitely 11 year old boy right there.
So that he tells her to meet him be at back at the power lines behind his house after school. He says at 3:15, 11's confused so he takes his watch off, puts it on her wrist and then shows her and then takes off. And then at the high school, Nancy is walking through the hallways. Feels like everyone's watching her. The script says everything in her school now feels different, heightened. It's like somehow everyone knows she's not a virgin anymore. People laugh. Are they laughing at her? Cast a few glances her way she hurries to her locker, throws open the locker. And then there's Steve.
And he can tell she's anxious, asks if everything's all right. And then she says, I feel like everyone's staring at me. And then he goes, I didn't tell anyone. And she says no, I know, of course not, but what about Tommy and Carol? And he says, you're being paranoid. She says sorry. And he says n. It's cute. And then he Says, hey, I had a good time. And then you could tell she just kind of softens after that. She's like, yeah, me too. Like, she just needed that re. Reassurance, you know? But the interesting thing about Steve and Nancy this episode is this is the only time in the episode where they're facing each other. For the rest of the episode, he is. His body is either moved away from her or he's next to her, but his focus is solely on Tommy and Carol and his body language and his attention. You could tell it's very not focused on Nancy, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But you can tell Nancy's stressed about Barb, but then also everything that happened the night before, and Steve just seems to be in his own little world and not clocking at all that Nancy's going through some stuff.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I still can't get a reading on Nancy and Steve. Like, I still don't know if Steve is trustworthy. Like, I just feel like there's a vibe with them. You know what I mean?
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: We don't know all three episodes. It's like. It just doesn't feel very, like, solid as a thing, you know, it doesn't feel very safe for Nancy, not in, like, a danger type of way, but it just feels like this is going to kind of end badly.
[00:47:49] Speaker A: It doesn't seem like a relationship that will last for sure.
[00:47:52] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:47:54] Speaker A: Especially with death now with happening because of them sleeping together because they were hanging out and stuff.
I'm like, oh, this is doomed. Like. Like there's.
[00:48:05] Speaker B: Yeah, she has a way she's gonna have guilt when she finds out. Yeah, about Barb.
[00:48:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: That she was off. Like, she went against what Barb was telling her and was off doing, you know, whatever she wanted to do, but.
[00:48:18] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. Yep.
So then Nancy plops into her seat in class, the script says, still high from her talk with Steve. But her excitement fades when she sees that the desk beside her is unoccupied. She asks a friend if she's seen Barb. Her friend's like, well, shouldn't you know that? Which I thought was a really interesting phrase, because that's heightening the guilt that Nancy's starting to feel and has felt since she abandoned Barb.
Now we're on a country road. Hopper and the. His two deputies are heading towards the lab. Hopper's apparently hungover from last night. And there's an interesting line, which I'll talk about later, where Officer Powell says, there she is, Emerald City. And then Callahan goes on and talks about all of the conspiracy theories about them building space weapons. The guy at the gate doesn't want to let them in. Hopper's like, like, please, we just want a quick tour. And then he pulls out the big guns and is like, look, kid's missing. We've got a mom that's just really worried. Please just do me a solid. And the guy's like, all right, let's him in.
Back at the Wheeler's house, we see that half of Dustin's snacks have been eaten by 11. And she's sitting there, and she's actually floating the Millennium Falcon midair. And the script says, but Eleven finds it boring. She looks away, the toy crashes to the floor. And then she looks at upstairs and goes, h, there's a whole world up there. So she goes up, starts to explore the house. She sits on the ottoman. The script says, but it isn't as fun without Mike. She listens to the dial tone on the phone, then starts humming to it. She goes, which. Which is a fun little moment, but it's also important that she's matching the frequency because we know that Will has been trying to contact or someone like Will or some entity has been trying to contact Joyce through the phone and has able to get through.
[00:50:08] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
[00:50:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is why we have the lights now and l being able to match the frequency that'll be picked up later.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: So then she goes to the tv, slipping through the stations, and then we get a flashback, which this is very similar to.
[00:50:23] Speaker B: Sorry, can I just say, I. When. When she was flipping through. Through the stations. It's so interesting what came up. It was. They were talking about, like, the occupation of Lebanon.
[00:50:33] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: With radio and, like, Syria. Yeah. And I just. Just hearing that, I was like, wow, literally the same is happening today.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: No, it is. It 100 is. Did you hear about the priest that was killed, I think, in Lebanon? The only reason I know is because I'm trying to teach my fourth grader about how to research. And so we've been looking up news articles and stuff in newspapers, and that was the headline for LA Times today. And I was like, oh, it's in Lebanon. And I remembered that from. Yeah. Reagan talking about it. It literally. It's literally all the same stuff. The fight for literally everything going on in the Middle East. I think this.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: The season. This season of Stranger things was in 1983.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:16] Speaker B: Which I think the Lebanese civil war was in 1982 or, like throughout the 80s.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:51:22] Speaker B: But it was basically like they were occupied by Syria There was an invasion by Israel. Like, it's literally the same.
[00:51:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:30] Speaker B: History is just repeating itself. Yeah.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Well. And like, everything we've been talking about with, like, the rise of, like, the importance of the nuclear family and hyper masculinity and all that stuff that we've been discussing, literally, again, what's happening now, and a lot of it's. It's worse because it's building off of the backs of the stuff that happened with the Reagan administration. Like, Trump is literally building his platform off of Reagan stuff because he saw how well it worked and obviously it's effective in getting him in office. So anyway.
Yep, you're right.
So anyway, eleven has a flashback to the lab. And she's sitting at a table and she has a tangle of electrodes is what the script calls it droops from her head. It's kind of assessing her brain wave activity. And then she's staring at an empty can of Coca Cola. She looks so, so little, so tiny.
She's just like an absolute baby. Her tiny little hands, her tiny little head, like in her little hospital gown. And a bunch of scientists, including Dr. Brenner, observing her from behind glass. And then we have the EEG monitor humming, and she's staring at the can. And then she crushes it with her mind. And then we see blood dripping from her nostrils. And then we're back to the present. She switches off the television.
So then in the buyer's house, Joyce is dragging a cardboard box into the living room. It has a bunch of Christmas lights in it. And she. Now we have a whole montage. She is just hammering nails into the living room walls, in the kitchen, in the hallway. She's hanging all the lights from these nails. She's zigzagging them up and down the house, putting them everywhere. The dog is, like, watching her, like, cuckoo.
And then she runs out of lights, and she's like, stink. So she runs to mo vaults again and drops a large box of Christmas lights. Lights. And then another and another. She, like, basically every single box of Christmas lights they have, she drops in there and then tops it all off with another cordless phone. And we know, we know that she's not paying for this. She's making Mr. Mailbox pay for it all.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: And he's like, well, Joyce, she's like,
[00:53:38] Speaker A: just bring me up, Donald.
So then at Hawkins Lab, we see Hopper and his officers looking at a bunch of different things. The security head is like, you think this missing boy may have crawled through this tunnel? Like, we see, like, the pipe on the other end of the fence. And Hopper's like, well, that was the thought. The security guy was like, I don't know how that's possible. We have hundreds of cameras everywhere. Hopper's like, hang on. You have cameras? Do you have tapes? So then they go walk to the security room. And as they're walking there, they pass by the quarantined area that we know leads to that place that we saw earlier on. And Hopper's like, what exactly do you guys do here? Security guys. Like, you're asking the wrong guy. Hopper's like, who's in charge?
And he says, Dr. Brenner, which important.
So Officer Callahan's like, he built the space lasers. He's going after the Russian like, he's over there still in conspiracy land. They go into the security room. They watch the surveillance tape. It's a big fat bunch of nothing.
Hopper confirms that it was the actual date that they were looking for. They're like, yep, it is. There's absolutely nothing. So then they leave. And as Hopper, Callahan, and Powell are heading into the parking lot, Hopper goes, so the night of the search party, the night of the seventh, do you guys remember anything in particular about that night? Callahan's like, no, there's not much to remember. But then Powell goes, there was a storm. And Hopper's like, yeah, there was a lot of rain that night. Did you guys see any rain on that tape? And they said, no.
And then they're like, what are you thinking? And Hopper goes, I don't know, but they're lying. And then they get into the car and leave. And you're like, yes, Hopper, yes. Use that big brain of yours.
[00:55:22] Speaker B: Yeah, Honestly, I would have. I would never have noticed.
[00:55:27] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Well, yeah, you. Yeah, that's the right date.
Well, he's gone.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: These organizations are always so trustworthy. No government oversight whatsoever.
[00:55:41] Speaker B: Oh, no, no. I mean, trust anything government related whatsoever. But I feel like, you know, logistically, I like, no, that seems pretty legit. That's the right date.
[00:55:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
So as they speed away, we pan down to a small ventilation shaft that's outside of the lab. And then we eventually come down into Hawkins Lab, and we see that there's an underground laboratory, that it has the work lights and everything all set up. There's a bunch of men in hazmat suits, and they've. The growth around the rift has spread since the last time we saw it. And Dr. Brenner is supervising a bunch of technicians in hazmat suits as they lower something on a winch onto the lab floor. Back at the Wheeler house, we have 11 heading even further upstairs, up to the bedrooms. And she goes to Nancy's room.
And the script says her eyes go wide. It's like a little girl's dream in here. She sits on the fluffy bed, bounces a bit.
She goes around the room, turns on a music box. This moment made me tear up so much. As she lifts up the box, it starts to play music. And she shuts it real fast, almost like it scares her. And it's the softest, sweetest little bit of music. And then she, like, gathers herself and then turns it on or opens it again. And then the music seems to move her. And then through the lullaby music, we transition to Eleven's theme in those lullaby tones as she goes through the rest of the room and looks at, like, the pictures of Nancy with Barb, which, again, is really good storytelling because we're seeing. We're getting insight into Nancy and Nancy's past with Barb, because we don't. This is like the ghost of Barb haunting the narrative here. Yeah.
The script says it seems like such a full life, happy life with Barb. As Levin's eyes glisten with tears, we cut to to Nancy now looking anxious as she moves through the cafeteria. And then she has to sit with Tommy and Steve and Carol because Barb's not there. And they're just being absolutely gross. They're looking at, like, a blister on Carol's ankle that she has on the table.
[00:57:52] Speaker B: They're so annoying.
[00:57:53] Speaker A: They're really annoying and gross and so annoying on a funny thing. So I always look up, like, these characters, the actors IMDb pages, just in case, to see if they've been on anything interesting. They really haven't.
[00:58:06] Speaker B: But.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: But the actor who plays Tommy H. Made me chuckle so, so much because you can tell he wrote his IMDb like, about you or whatever. And he. And the way he wrote it, he was like. I forget what exactly he worded it, but, oh, yeah, here it is. The actor who plays Tommy H. In Stranger Things is Chester Rushington. He is known for his role in the first or. Well, he's. He's known for his role in the series where he brought humor and depth to the character.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: What?
[00:58:34] Speaker A: And then I think they also talk about oh, yeah. Audiences first met him as Tommy H. On Netflix's cultural phenomenon Stranger Things, where he brought humor, edge and heart to a character that quickly stood out. And I was like, what?
[00:58:48] Speaker B: What stood out as annoying?
[00:58:50] Speaker A: Did he stand out?
Yeah. Anyway, I was cracking Up. I was like, yeah, he definitely. Chester definitely wrote that one.
[00:58:57] Speaker B: There's no way.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: You know what you do what you have to do, stand out and to get book jobs. But also, that's so funny. I'm gonna roast you for it too.
So anyway, Nancy interrupts them, and it's like, hey, Tommy, did you see Barb when you left? And then Tommy pretends like he doesn't know who Barb is. He's like, I have no idea who you're talking about. Carol laughs. And Steve's like, okay, come on, don't be an ass, man. You see her leave last night or not? Tommy's like, no, she was gone when we left. Carol's like, well, she probably couldn't stand listening to all that moaning.
Her and Tommy just start to, like, go off all When Harry Met Sally banging the table, moaning loudly. Steve again, he's sitting next to Nancy, but he's not looking at her, he's looking at them. And he's got, like, this little smirk on his face. And Nancy is clearly very uncomfortable. And then the script says that Steve notices he reaches out, gently touched her leg, but he doesn't do that in the. In the episode. He likes it, and he just smirks. Marks. Yeah, yeah. Also, bad vibes.
Yes, total bad vibes. In the scene with 11 in Nancy's room, she's supposed to find a diary of Nancy's where she's talking about Steve. And she. Levin goes, ugh, Steve, Steve, Steve, what's wrong with me? Pathetic. And then she sees something even better and then moves on to something else.
Even 11's I love it was going. Literally.
[01:00:26] Speaker B: She's like, no, no, no, this is not the right move for you, Nancy.
[01:00:31] Speaker A: That's so funny. So Steve tries to reassure Nancy. He's like, I'm sure she's fine. Except it's not really reassurance. It's more just like, dude, you're overreacting. It's fine. She's just skipping or something. And we all know Barb. We've. We've known her for two, three episodes now.
We know Barb wouldn't skip. We know very little about her, but we know she wouldn't skip. Skip. And so the fact that he isn't aware of that, again, shows how little he's paying attention to Nancy and her feelings.
So Nancy's just. Just feeling like she's sticking out like a sore thumb. And then we have this moment where Jonathan walks by in the hallway, and then he and Nancy have this moment where they see each Other the script says he clocks Nancy. She seems lost out of place somehow with her new friends. She suddenly looks up, makes eye contact with Jonathan. He looks away and hurries down the hall. So that is especially important because again, Natalie, Steve hasn't really looked at Nancy, and he's like completely absorbed with his friends. And even Jonathan can kind of clock that something's wrong.
All right, so in middle school, a bunch of kids are playing, but Mike, Dustin and Lucas are collecting rocks behind the bleachers for Lucas's sling. And they keep talking about Eleven's powers. Lucas is like, she's not a superhero, she's a weirdo. And then Lucas is like, you love her so much, why don't you marry her? When Mike defends her. And then Mike makes fun of Mike is like, oh.
And the Mike's like, shut up, Lucas. And then we hear the bullies show up and they call them losers. They also talk about how Will getting taken was probably by somebody else who is also queer. And then they laugh at that. And then the script says, Mike's anger rises. He wants to do something. He wants to punch this head in the face, but he just doesn't find the courage. Not today.
So then he says, come on. And then they try to ignore them, but as they walk by, Troy sticks his foot out, trips Mike. He falls to the ground, scrapes his chin pretty hard on a rock. Troy and James laugh at them and then take off. Lucas helps him up, and then Dustin picks up the rock and goes, hey, how about this rock? So from uncovering Stranger Things, I thought this was really interesting.
The essay was entitled the Queer Subtext of Stranger Things by Emily Roach. She discusses how marginalized core characters, queer coding, gender subversion, and the ever present monster of the Upside Down. The world of Stranger Things, much like the 80s themselves, is unsafe for the lonely, the vulnerable and the queer. She talks about how Reagan's America involved an attempt to resurrect frontier masculinity. Kind of what we were talking about earlier. So think of all the cowboy movies and westerns, good versus evil. Good guys portrayed extremely masculine. Clint Eastwood, John Wayne esque. Typically, the good guy was always some sort of person in power, like a sheriff in a small town, kind of Hopper esque in a lot of ways, because that's deemed the masculine ideal in a lot of ways. We'll. We'll talk about that in another episode. But she goes on and says that the all American cowboy Persona gained popularity post Vietnam in an era which pivoted on the ability of Reagan and his administration to portray themselves successfully as distinctly masculine, not merely as men, but as decisively tough, aggressive, strong, domineering men. Again, this is what we're seeing today.
This notion of hyper masculinity receives treatment in Stranger Things, where the boys who don't initially appear to fit that mold become easy targets. There's a strong connection between homophobia and a critique of masculinity or its perceived absence. This investment in hetero models of masculinity is alluded to in the context of both Jonathan and Will Byers. Neither character conforms to hyper masculine type. With Jonathan frequently presented as a loner and an outcast. He's called queer and a pervert by Steve, who, at least in the initial episodes, presents the hallmarks of athleticism. Champion in Reagan's America, Joyce is frequently framed, has frequently framed Will as different. And this positioning of Will as somehow different from other boys from the beginning of the first season contributes to the reading of Will as a marginalized character, a queer character. Jonathan urges Will against trying to conform. In that whole scene when they're listening to the radio, which we talked about last time, about how they're listening to this punk rock rock band, which in and of itself is a non conformist type of band. And Jonathan's basically saying you shouldn't like things just because people tell you you're supposed to. And through this tutelage, Jonathan urges Will to see the liberating possibilities which can come from embracing perceived differences. And we'll have more to say that about that with Will in the future. But they go on to talk about how that's not just Will and not just Jonathan. Even 11 can be further viewed through a queer lens due to her ambivalent gender presentation. She's mistaken for a boy described as a weirdo as a result of her non normative appearance. Barb's another queer coded character who meets an unhappy end at the hands of the Upside Down. Left on her own by the swimming pool while Nancy has sex with Steve, Barb is taken by the monster of the Upside Down. In that moment, Barb is both literally and metaphorically isolated from her friends in their heterosexual union. Through her story arc, Barb represents the forgotten queer and her narrative haunts long after she's gone. And there's long been an association with ghosts, forgotten queers and ungrievable lies lives. And then Jose Esteban Munoz, I think is his name. He was a Cuban American academic in the fields of performance studies, visual culture and queer theory. He describes the importance of ghosts to Queer criticism, explaining that they help with understanding communal mourning group psychologies and the need for a politics that carries our dead with us into battles for the present and the future. So in the context of Barb, she embodies the ideas of an ungrievable life life. And I think that kind of gives us an idea of why Barb resonated so much with so many people. And when she died, a lot of people saw themselves in Barb. Probably not just as the shy, nerdy book kid, but there's possibly a huge queer subtext too, as well.
Not. Not just for people who are, you know, LGBTQ would define themselves as that, but also anybody who is not normative, you know? Yeah.
[01:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. So I think that's, like. That's what I was saying. Like, people watch shows nowadays and they identify with characters so personally. So, yeah, I can see why somebody would cling to even a minor character, because you just never know what they're gonna see in them.
[01:06:50] Speaker A: Right?
[01:06:51] Speaker B: Like, if they're gonna see themselves in them. And I think everything they said about Barb was. I can see it. Totally.
[01:06:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, back in the dark room, the images of Nancy that Jonathan took that he is developing, and he has them up on a drying rack. And then this girl comes in, sees the pictures of Nancy in various states of undress through a window and is like. And you could tell Jonathan instantly is like, oh, crap, gotta take these down. Gotta take these down.
And then he's like, okay. And then he just, like, takes off and leaves the room. And the girl is like, okay. Honestly, good for her.
I think that's the right thing to do, to go to everybody else and be like, hey, so I saw these pictures.
Yeah. So then in the buyer's house, Joyce plugs in the final string of Christmas lights and then waits. And her room is. Or like, her house is entirely covered, end to end in Christmas lights, and she's just waiting. And then someone is at the door, and it's Karen, and she's bringing a casserole. And you could tell Joyce is, like, busy right now, but, like, I can't. I can't not say anything. And Karen has Holly with her, and so they come inside, and now we're at the Hawkins Public Library, which, just FYI, this is a very important location. So Hopper and Powell are there to do some research. They walk up, and there's Marissa, the front librarian. And Hopper's trying to play it cool. He's like, hey, Marissa, how are you doing? And she goes, you have a lot of nerves showing up here. And he's like, what? And she's like, you could have at least called. Said, marissa, hey, it's not going to work out. I'm sorry I wasted your time. I'm a dick. And then Pal's like. Like, snickering over there. And Hopper's like, yeah, maybe we can go.
And then they just stare at each other. And he's like, right. Can't come back from that one. And then he's like, do you have any newspapers here? And I was like, you know what? Good for you, Marissa. Stand your ground.
[01:08:47] Speaker B: I was going to say good for Hopper for, you know, for not calling her.
I'm so toxic with other girls because we've seen them. Oh, yeah. There was another one. Maybe. Is it maybe the same one from the last.
[01:09:02] Speaker A: It's not. It's not. It's a different girl. Little Ho. Not her.
[01:09:05] Speaker B: Look at him.
Him.
[01:09:07] Speaker A: He's.
[01:09:07] Speaker B: Little Ho. I mean, he's a deeply, like, emotionally stunted and troubled man. What else. What else do you expect?
[01:09:15] Speaker A: Very repressed. Exactly.
Right on Brand.
[01:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:09:20] Speaker A: Just so then she shows Marissa, shows them the. The massive card catalog, and says, you know, everything's organized. You can find what you're looking for. And then he's like, I'm looking for anything on the National Laboratory. And she's like, shouldn't you be looking for that missing kid? And he's like, yeah, we are. And then she just stares at him. Sure. And he's like, okay, how about you search the Times, and we'll start with the Post. And she gives him this look and goes. And she walks away.
And I was like, yeah, she ain't doing nothing. Dude, this is your job. You do it.
And Pal's like, the librarian? Really? And Hopper's like, why not? She's cute.
[01:09:58] Speaker B: It's a small town.
[01:09:59] Speaker A: I mean, literally, the. The pond is only so large. Then you have to go back through it again.
[01:10:05] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:10:06] Speaker A: As Nancy's finding out.
[01:10:13] Speaker B: I wonder how big. I wonder how big Hawkins actually is. Is.
[01:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. They've never.
[01:10:19] Speaker B: Tiny little town.
[01:10:20] Speaker A: They've never said.
[01:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah, looks like it.
[01:10:23] Speaker A: It does. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so Hopper and Powell are rummaging through the microfiche, and they are scrolling through lots of articles, seeing lots of things about, like, lawsuits at the lab. Terry Ives is suing alleged experiments. We see pictures.
Terry Ives says that they took her daughter. And then we're back to the buyer's house. House. The oven's heating up, and Joyce, Karen, and Holly are sitting at the table. Karen's looking at the Christmas lights, like, what in the world is happening? Joyce is like, I put them up because, you know, it makes me feel like he's here somehow. Karen's like, no, it's not silly. She asks how Jonathan's holding up, and then Joyce is like, oh, he's good at taking care of himself. He always has been. He thinks I'm losing my mind. And I'm like, girl, Jonathan's not doing well. He's not?
[01:11:11] Speaker B: No. Jonathan is your father at this point.
[01:11:14] Speaker A: He's the parent. Yeah.
Jonathan is your handler at this point.
[01:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Honestly?
[01:11:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. This is probably the first thing. Well, I don't even know if she eats this casserole, but this would be probably the first thing she's eaten in, like, three days.
[01:11:29] Speaker B: To be fair, though, her child is missing. I don't know that I would eat or sleep either.
[01:11:35] Speaker A: No, I don't judge her for that. I judge her for the fact that she's over there, like, oh, Jonathan.
[01:11:39] Speaker B: Yeah, she's, like, neglecting her child there.
[01:11:42] Speaker A: Did that light just flicker? Will other child that's there is, like, shriveling up, dying on the vine.
So while they're talking, Holly sees one of the Christmas lights flickering and then follows it down the hallway as each light flickers, and then goes into Will's room and then sees that the circle of lamps are all glowing. And then they abruptly cut out. And then we hear that wall that Joyce was looking at earlier, kind of of grumbling and growling. And, oh, my gosh, this shot is so good, where we have, like, little Holly and pigtails in front of the big, ominous wall. Also, Holly's outfit is very similar to Drew Barrymore's from E.T. with the little, like, overalls.
So then we start to see, like, the demogorgon coming through. And then all of a sudden, Karen's like, hang on. Where'd Holly go? So then they rush in, and they. Of course, they don't see anything but that they get Holly out of there. And then Karen's, like, looking at the lamps, going, what is going on? And then Joyce sees that Holly's kind of looking at the wall, and she says, did you see something? And kind of presses Holly, makes Karen uncomfortable. And then Joyce is like, karen, thank you for the casserole, but I need you to leave. And then Karen's like, okay. So firm, you know, Good for her. I've had a couple of house guests where I'm just like, how can I politely ask you to Leave.
[01:13:03] Speaker B: Get out.
[01:13:03] Speaker A: Six hours.
[01:13:04] Speaker B: Get out. Get out, get out.
[01:13:06] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. Ye about to throw a dawn.
Gosh, guys, it is so hard. I think I've told you this. It is hard making mom friends with other moms that like, are stay at home moms and don't understand that. Like, when we do play dates, you can come for two hours, but that's about it. They will come. I had one lady that came for six hours that's too crazy. And I just was sitting there going, I don't know what else to talk about and do. Like, I, I think lack self awareness.
[01:13:38] Speaker B: Especially if you're not that close to somebody. Like, if this is like your very best friend that you've known for like years, I can kind of understand.
[01:13:46] Speaker A: Come hang out with me as long as you want.
[01:13:48] Speaker B: If it's just like an acquaintance, a parent that's an acquaintance, like, that is so crazy. Like, how do you not feel uncomfortable yourself being a stranger, basically a stranger's house for that long?
[01:14:03] Speaker A: I wonder if I make people feel too comfortable and I don't give enough
[01:14:06] Speaker B: vibes of like, honestly, I don't think, I think regardless of how you would have acted, like, some people just don't have self awareness. Like, they just, they just don't. Either they don't care or they just don't notice that.
[01:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that is the case,
[01:14:21] Speaker B: but I just, I just can't imagine being at somebody's house for that long that I'm not like extremely close with, with, you know, just out of comfort for myself.
[01:14:30] Speaker A: Long story short, I.
I appreciate what Joyce is doing here because I need
[01:14:34] Speaker B: to be more like Joyce. Get out.
[01:14:37] Speaker A: Thank you for the casserole. You need to leave.
Oh, my gosh.
Anyway, all right, so back at the high school, Nancy is at a pay phone and she ends up calling Barb's mom, asking if Barb is there, forgetting that they had, had arranged it, that Barb was supposed to spend the night at Nancy's house to fool their moms. And Mrs. Holland is like, yeah, no, Barb's not here. Nancy covers for herself, is like, oh, I think she's actually like at the library. And you could tell Mrs. Holland kind of like something's not quite right. Have her call me when you see her next. And so then Nancy's like, yeah, sorry to bother you. She hangs up. And she's now like, oh, crap, Barb hasn't been home.
What's going on? So she heads to the parking lot. And now we see Jonathan also in the Parking lot. And he's confronted by Steve, Carol, and then Nicole from the dark room and Tommy. And this is a controversial scene. So Steve confronts Jonathan. Nicole's told us about your work. We just like to take a look at it. They rip Jonathan's bag away from him, and then they rummage through the pictures and they find all the photos that he took. Steve throws them all on the floor, and of course, they feature Nancy. Nancy shows up, and Steve has distributed the photos everywhere. And Jonathan says, I was looking for my brother. Steve says, no, this is called stalking. Nancy says, what's going on? And then Carol's like, this creep was spying on us last night, but he was going to keep this one for later. And passes a photo to Nancy of her at the. At the bedroom window. And she looks very shocked and hurt. Jonathan's ashamed. Steve says, see, you can tell he knows it was wrong. But it's the thing about perverts. It's hardwired into them. They just can't help themselves. So he tears up the photos, shreds them all. And then Steve grabs Jonathan's camera, holds it above his head, and Jonathan's like, no, please don't. And then Steve looks like he's not going to. And then he drops the camera and it just shatters on the ground. Everyone laughs, laughs and leaves. Jonathan starts to pick up the pieces, and then Nancy hangs back for a moment. You could tell she feels really bad. And then sees the photo of Barb on the diving board and grabs it. And this is interesting because obviously Nancy's seeing the photo of Barb, and you know that's going to be her first clue for everything. But in this moment, Nancy can directly relate with Jonathan in a way that she couldn't the day before. Because now someone, someone she knows and loves is missing. Like, he's missing Will. And I don't mean that to take away from Jonathan's creepy and stalker, like, behavior. Like, nothing I say here is supposed to be, like, validating that and saying it's okay. But I think that the photo of Nancy in her most vulnerable moment, on top of Jonathan seeing her in the cafeteria and other moments is supposed to signal that perhaps Jonathan sees Nancy in a way that Steve and the others don't, on top of the fact that they can relate as people that are scared and worried about their loved ones.
But I don't know. What do you think about the scene?
[01:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. It's.
I hate the cruelty of it from, like, the other kids. Like, it's It's. It's complicated because I feel like he deserved it. Like, yeah. Like, what he did was creepy. Like, it's creepy. And I think we were talking about it in the last episode about how. How, you know, I think in the episode it shows him putting the camera away as she's taking her clothes off. But then we find out here that he actually did take photos of her,
[01:18:07] Speaker A: the photos of her.
[01:18:09] Speaker B: And I just feel like that's just, like, very creepy. Right? Like, there's no excuse for that. You weren't looking for your brother for whatever reason. Like, he knows it's wrong.
And I feel like he sort of had it coming.
But at the same time, I can't help but sympathize with him, I feel like. Because we've gotten a look into, like, his home life, and I think it's hard with TV shows sometimes because you're in. You're seeing the perspective of every character, and sometimes it's not as simple as, like, this guy's a bad guy. This guy's a good guy.
But like I said, I think I felt bad when the camera broke, because in my head, I'm like, oh, my God, they don't have money to replace the camera.
[01:18:53] Speaker A: Right.
[01:18:53] Speaker B: This is the only thing he has. And he's been using it to, like. Like, you know, it's.
[01:18:58] Speaker A: It's a find.
[01:18:58] Speaker B: It's a thing exactly. Like.
[01:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:19:00] Speaker B: It's a thing that he uses to, like, escape from his reality. Like, he has to take care of everybody around him, and this is a thing for him. And now it's broken, and they don't have enough money to replace it. But then at the same time, I'm like, but he kind of had it coming.
[01:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:19:16] Speaker B: Because he shouldn't have done that.
And.
Yeah. I don't know. And then I just find the whole. I think. Think the way that Steve and his friends react to it is also very cruel in an unnecessary way. And I think the fact that they take the photos and show them to everybody is also unnecessary. So I just feel like nobody's right or wrong in this situation, and they.
I don't know. It's complicated.
[01:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's a brilliant moment because they're doing multiple things at once, which I. I love when writers and directors do this. Like, we're showing that. I think Steve and Carol and Tommy had every right to confront Jonathan, obviously, and to tear up those photos and also, like, even breaking the camera, although I feel it's too far. I'm also Just kind of like, yeah, he was stalking them. It was not. Okay. Yeah. But I feel like the intention behind it is not, oh, hey, we're protecting Nancy. It felt more like bullying behavior.
[01:20:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:20:18] Speaker A: Of like, oh, yay, we get to pick on the weirdo, and we finally have a legit reason to do it. Yeah.
[01:20:24] Speaker B: And that's what it felt like.
[01:20:25] Speaker A: It was gleefully malevolent.
[01:20:27] Speaker B: It says. It says a lot about Steve and his friends.
[01:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:20:31] Speaker B: Their intention says a lot about them, which isn't a good thing.
[01:20:36] Speaker A: But I think there also is a bit of the. The class vibe, too, by breaking the camera. Steve is obviously wealthy in his. Yeah, he can afford to buy another one. But in Jonathan's mind, that's his way possibly of making money. That's his way of possibly.
[01:20:54] Speaker B: That was my thought.
[01:20:55] Speaker A: That's his hobby. You know, I was like, no.
[01:20:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Like, just. I could just. I feel like he played it that way too, where it's like, no, not the camera. Like, I can't replace this. It's too expensive.
And it's just. It's like a devastating loss for him because that's all he has. And Steve has, like, all of the. He has the girl, he has the house, he has the friends, the money, whatever.
[01:21:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I also think, too, again, and then the photo of Barb there in the photo of Barb and the photo of Nancy, that's all to kind of highlight, obviously, the class divide. It's a plot device to. To have Nancy find this photo so that she can try to find Barb. It's going to have other repercussions and effects later on, too, but I think that the photo of Barb catching Nancy's eye, because it's evident evidence. But I think it's also an obvious outsider appearance of Barb in the photo. Like the. The posture of Barb sitting there outside of the home, so obviously looking dejected and hurt and holding her bleeding thumb is kind of a point of connection for Nancy and Jonathan. This moment, too, because Jonathan is an outsider taking this picture that caught his eye. But I think also Nancy in this moment. Moment is struggling with her place in all of this and feeling out of the. Out of water with all the popular kids. I think Nancy's really struggling with where she's at. And so I think. I think, again, it's the. It's the ghost of Barb haunting the narrative that is bring. Connecting Jonathan and Nancy as well. Again, not to take away from the creep factor of what Jonathan's doing, but I think that's what the intent of the director and the writers is, is to have these multiple little connections between them and stuff. But yeah, yeah, it's a messy scene, it's a messy situation. But that's the television that I like to talk about. I like it when there's not always a clear cut answer, you know, for sure.
So, all right, so now we're at the power lines. 11's waiting for Mike. She keeps saying, 3:15, 3:15. And then a cat hisses at her, sends her back to another flashback.
She's now seated at the table again, has the Electro on her head and it's identical to the Coca Cola experiment, except with a cat in place of the Coke can inside of a cage. The scientists are observing her from the glass. 11 staring at the cat. We see the EEG needle climbing again. The way this is shot again, we're watching 11 through the bars of the cat's cage, which is a great, great shot showing that she's also a prisoner, in case we couldn't tell. The cat is supposed to be like kind of in pain, shrieking because she's, she's, you know, doing whatever she's doing to it. And we're thinking she's probably going to treat it just like with the Coke can. And then suddenly she stops, rips the thing off her head and looks at Brenner and says, no. And then we see her being dragged down a corridor by two men in lab coats. Very similar to the last time that she was throwed inside of this room. Dr. Brenner's watching coldly from afar. We can tell this is a completely different situation because he's wearing a jacket this time. Last time he had no suit jacket and then had a different color shirt. She's yelling, papa, no, Papa. They throw her into the box. They go to slam the door, but then she screams at the top of her lungs and the door explodes back, flinging one of the men back into the wall behind him. He just like falls, the script says his spine snaps on impact. We see an indent in the wall. And then the other man reaches for his baton to come at her and she uses her head to snap his neck 90 degrees and then he slumps to the ground. 11 just. She looks pasty white, the vein in her forehead's bulging. She's got blood coming out of her nose and I think her ears too are ringing. She's like about to collapse on the floor. And then Dr. Brenner comes in. He just kind of like coolly looks at the Bodies. Then looks at her. What a psychopath. The script says his eyes are filled with awe. She has shown more ability than he could have ever imagined. He comes towards her and she's sc.
But then he goes. He, like, takes his hand as if he's going to, like, cradle her face and then rests it on top of her head and says incredible, before moving it down to cradle her face. And it's just. It's very Mother Gothel when she comes and strokes Rapunzel's hair and talks about how beautiful she is, but she's clearly talking about the hair. Like, it's so manipulative. Yeah, he's manipulative. And then he very obviously only cares about her powers, not her as a person, which.
[01:25:29] Speaker B: And she's a child, which makes it 20 times worse.
[01:25:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's supposed to contrast again how Mike has been treating L by saying, she's not a dog, she's a person. She has a name. Like, he's giving her all of these human character or not. He's assigning her a human role as someone who should be respected as a human being. And that's probably the first time in her life that anyone has ever treated her like that.
[01:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah, this is darling.
[01:25:54] Speaker A: Dark.
[01:25:55] Speaker B: Like, she's. This is. This is dark. Like, I just feel like everything we're learning about Elle is, like, getting darker and darker. Like she's killed people.
[01:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is like a quick little, like, twist of her head, snap of a wrist.
[01:26:08] Speaker B: And now she's with, like. I wonder if at a certain point they were, like, thinking of, like, the writers, like, the duffers, whatever, of making like she's with the boys right now. Like, are they. They safe with her? What's her story? Like, she's obviously a very powerful whatever. She is human, whatever.
But, yeah, this is super dark.
[01:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah, we're talking about child abuse here. Like, emotional, mental, physical.
Yeah, like. Yeah, very, very, very dark stuff.
I. I'm going to go into it more later, but we'll eventually talk about the resurgence of films, especially in the 80s and 90s, portraying men playing God with women's bodies, especially in the Reagan era. And the whole idea of Mad Scientist and the Bride of Frankenstein, it's a major theme in this show. It's going to come back up again. I feel like we'll be able to more fully unpack that in the future. So I'm going to put a pin in it for now. But I just wanted to acknowledge that, like, you know, that is actually happening right here. But the fact that like, there's this moment where she thinks that he sees her and he just sees her power.
And the saddest part of this whole scene to me is that he got what he wanted in the end.
She didn't kill the cat, but she killed two men. Like, she displayed her power. He still, as a scientist, got to observe that. And the reward for doing that is you get affection now. That's why he picks her up and cradles her.
And it's like, who knows if he didn't set that all up to drive her to that point in the first place, you know?
And I thought it was really interesting. So, I mean, I feel like this is obvious, but I. I just wanted to reiterate. So the director sets this up in so many ways, but one of the biggest ways is by having Dr. Brenner holding 11 in the classic princess carry position versus, like, the fireman's carry, which is like, over the shoulder.
And so I looked up, like, the princess carry kind of what it represents and stuff. And it's typically intimacy or romance or care or gentle protection. Protection. It's typically like a gentle rescue or an escape, or it highlights a personal and emotional connection versus the fireman's carry, which is very much like a duty and efficiency over emotion. And it conveys a clear power imbalance. One person is active, the carrier. The other person is the passive one, and also implicit trust. The person being carried is in a completely vulnerable position, relying entirely on the carrier strength and care. There's a context of need.
It happens because 11 is completely fatigued. There's a visual intimacy. The physical closeness required for the carry immediately establishes a bond, whether it's protective, romantic, or something else entirely. So a director's choice between those two carries is deliberate storytelling decision. The princess carry signals that we should pay attention to the relationship between the two characters versus the fireman's carry, which is more a. We should focus on the urgency of the situation.
And. And it's really, really interesting because it depicts trust and vulnerability and surrendering all control. And it's also playing on archetypes of the strong protector and the vulnerable person in need. The article says it's about wish fulfillment. For the person being carried, it represents being cared for and saved from a threat. For the carrier, it represents having the strength and capability to be the one who saves the day. It's a fantasy of both safety and competence, which is incredibly appealing. That's from visualfoodie.com and so it's Papa ultimately gaining control, and he feels this sense of control, because he's the one manipulating Elle, who is arguably more powerful than he is, and yet he is able to control her. And therefore, by extension, he feels like a powerful individual in and of himself.
[01:29:58] Speaker B: What a sick.
[01:30:00] Speaker A: Which is just disgusting and it's gross. And like, there are only three words spoken in the scene. No papa. And then incredible. It's virtually non verbal. So the entire dynamic of their relationship is established in this scene. And we get what's happening. So up until now, we've seen 11 running away from Brenner, being abused by him in the form of isolation and subjected to horrible experiments. But we know she calls him Papa, and we don't know the nature of their relationship dynamic. So all he's done is observe her. This whole idea of seeing someone but not actually seeing them. This is the first time he's spoken to her and touched her. And that's because she's fulfilled the experiment that he's laid out for her. And so this whole scene is necessary because it explains why Eleven hasn't just run away before now, because clearly she's capable. And it also explains why trust is so important to Elle. When she talks about Mike coming back for her, she's clearly had trust used against her. And then it gives us insight into Brenner hinting at a man who enjoys power and control. Control and will weaponize people in relationships to get it. And so pointing back to that statement that Powell refers to as Emerald City as they're pulling up to the lab. And then a scene later, the guy giving the tour confirms and emphasizes that Brenner is the guy in charge. He's the wizard. And we all know the wizard was actually a con man who gave the illusion of power and control using tricks, manipulation, and a false sense of power. So they've really set up Brenner and 11 in their dynamic in this episode. And I just. Yeah, yeah, it's very fascinating.
[01:31:33] Speaker B: It is.
[01:31:35] Speaker A: All right, so now 11 snaps out of the memory. We have Mike, Dustin and Lucas approaching on their bikes. Mike tells her to hop on the back of his. They only have a few hours. And they race away to go look for Will.
At the high school, Steve, Nancy and Tommy and Carol are hanging out next to the gym. They're supposed to be smoking cigarettes and passing around a flask, but they're just chilling in the hallway. Carol's telling a dirty joke story about her teacher, and it's just a bunch of just like, gross stuff.
Mindless, meaningless conversation. Again, Steve is not even paying attention to Nancy, just Staring straight at. At Carol and Tommy. She's just more an extension of his life, basically. Nancy's had enough. She's like, all right, I gotta go. And Steve's like, where are you going? She's like, I forgot I told my mom I was gonna do something with her. Clear lie. And then she says, sorry, take some off. Steve's like, hang on, the script says, dumbfounded. And then Tommy's like, you probably freaked her out. Carol's like, what did you expect, dating Ms. Perfect?
So in the woods, we have. The kids are walking their bikes as they go through. And then Eleven asks Mike why he got hurt on his chin. And then he lies and says it happened while he was playing baseball. And she knows he's lying and says, mike, friends tell the child truth again. Important to show that Eleven is learning what true friendship is. But it also underlies the final scene where Mike accuses Elle of lying. We're primed to believe 11 because we see that she understands that telling the truth is important, and she now knows what trust should look like.
And it's really clever because it sows seeds of doubt about the body being pulled out of the water and makes us really sympathetic with 11.
So Mike tells her what actually happened, tells her about what a mouth breather is. A dumb person, a knucklehead. He says, I don't know why I didn't just tell you that. Everyone at school knows. I guess I just. I don't know. I like that you didn't know I was such a wastoid, you know? And she says, mike, I understand.
She sees him in that moment. She knows what it's like not to be in control and to be seen as a weirdo, and it's so sweet. And he goes, oh, okay, cool.
And she goes, cool. And then Lucas. This was cut out, but Lucas apparently was observing them and was getting really annoyed with it. And he's like, well, what happens when we find Will? And Dustin's like, we celebrate. And Lucas is like, no, what happens to the weirdo? Does she just stay in Mike's basement for forever? Dustin goes, I don't know. That'd be kind of, like, crazy. She'd be like his new sister or something. And Lucas is like, more like his wife. They have mutant kids.
[01:34:15] Speaker B: His sister.
[01:34:16] Speaker A: His sister. Dustin's, like, so oblivious.
[01:34:20] Speaker B: I love him so much.
[01:34:23] Speaker A: So then Nancy finds Barb's car still parked in the same place, her shirt inside her. Panic's growing. She calls for Barb, heads to Steve's house, looks around, and Sees something, we don't quite see what it is. It goes by the camera too fast, but she ends up falling. And then her elbow hits a rock. Rock. But she's terrified. And then she takes off running and is too scared to investigate anymore. And then in the buyer's house, Joyce is just sitting there smoking a cigarette, is looking for the lights, when all of a sudden they start to blink again.
Set decorator Jess Royal strung the lights on the set and then worked closely with the show's electrician to develop a master control panel so that each bulb and overhead light could be turned on and off as needed for individual seats.
[01:35:08] Speaker B: Else. Yeah, that's a lot.
[01:35:10] Speaker A: Sean Levy remembers the lights as one of the most unexpected challenges of the inaugural seasons. He says it turns out that Christmas lights don't normally blink in a sequence that communicates narrative. Programming them was not as easy as one might expect, but it led to one of the most iconic images of the show.
[01:35:24] Speaker B: Oh, for sure.
[01:35:25] Speaker A: This sequence is gorgeous. Yeah, gorgeous.
So the lights are blinking and she's following them one by one as she looks leads to a, like, desk or bookcase by the wall. She ends up pushing it back and there's a little crawl space in there. So she goes in there and she's holding a tangle of Christmas lights in her lap. And she says, will, are you there? The lights glow and the script says they pulsate the rhythm almost like a heartbeat. And she wells up. She's like, oh, you're here, you're here. I knew you were there. And she goes, okay, blink one for yes, two for no. Know. And then the lights blink. And then she says, are you alive? He signals that he is. She says, are you safe? He signals that he's not. And then she says, I need to know where you are. Where can I find you? And there's no answer. So then she goes, grabs a paint can and then starts to paint the Alphabet on her wall.
[01:36:21] Speaker B: You know what? What a crafty lady.
[01:36:24] Speaker A: Honestly, honestly. Just starts knocking things aside. Guide paints the entire Alphabet. And then she gets lights and puts them over the Alphabet. And then we're over at the Wheeler's house. Karen's cooking in the kitchen. Nancy comes in, and Karen, you know, I just appreciate so much that she doesn't bring up the night before. She just allows her daughter to come to her. And I think that's why Nancy comes to her in this moment.
[01:36:49] Speaker B: She's a cool mom, honestly. Karen is a cool mom.
[01:36:52] Speaker A: A good moment mom.
So she's like, nancy, what's the matter? Nancy's fighting off tears. She says, I think something happened to Barb. Something terrible. And then now the public library. Hopper and Pal are still reading articles. Pal's like, man, this lady Terry Ives just sounds like a real nut job. Her kid was taken for LSD mind control experiments. She's been discredited. Her claim was thrown out. Hopper's like, forget her. Look at this. And then he points out MK Ultra, and there's a photo of. Of Brenner with a bunch of children in hospital gowns. And Hopper's like, hey, remember Brenner? You don't think that that's interesting? He's like, there's possible, like, CIA sanctioned research. And he's like, look at the participants. Look at their gowns. We found that little piece of fabric by that pipe. That looks like a hospital gown to me. Pal skeptical. Hopper's like, come on, work with me. He's like, I'm not saying there's conspiracy. I'm just saying maybe something happened there. Maybe Will was in the wrong place at the wrong time, saw something he shouldn't have. Then his radio blasts. It's Callahan calling. They race out, hop into their cars, turn on, the sirens take off. And in the woods, Eleven leads the boys to the buyer's house and points at it and says, here? And Mike is like, yeah, this is where Will lives. And she says, no hiding. And Mike's like, no, he's not hiding here. This is where he lives. He's missing from here. Lucas goes off and says, I told her she didn't know what the hell she was talking about. Mike's like, why did you bring us here? Here. Lucas says, mike, don't waste your time with her. Mike says, what do you want to do? Then Lucas says, call the cops, like we should have done yesterday. They start to fight. And then Dustin goes, hey, guys, do you hear that? They hear the sirens as Hopper and a bunch of other cars pass by. Emergency vehicles, fire trucks, all that stuff. And the boys are like, you don't think. You know, it's Will. They leap on their bikes. And then we have this beautiful sequence. Oh. Of Joyce finishing up the Alphabet with the lights over. A light over each letter of the Alphabet and says, okay, baby, talk to me. Where are you? And then the light nears. The R, the I, G, H, T spells out right here. And Joyce is like, okay, I don't know what that means. Where can I find you? This is so clever. She says, tell me how I can get to you. What should I do? She Asked him like four questions. I'm like, lady, one question at a time for this poor kid. So then all of a sudden, the lights start to light up and it spells out Run.
And then all the lights just all start flickering all at once. The wall behind her distends and then forms the outline of the monster. The lights go berserk. There's like a strobe, like, effect.
The wall starts to kind of tear. And then Joyce just screams and just like, runs. And then we have the sequence the boys riding through the woods and woods. And then we have Hopper and his men going along with the emergency vehicles. And we get down to the quarry that we had just been at the last episode, and there's just already a bunch of people there, State troopers, ambulances. And they're in the water pulling something out. And Hopper's like, tell me it's not the kid. The boys race to the bottom of the quarry and they, like, are behind an emergency vehicle as they see the state troops, troopers dragging a small body out of the water. And then we have the Beautiful Heroes by Peter Gabriel, which is an orchestral cover of Davey Bowie song.
[01:40:10] Speaker B: I love that cover.
[01:40:11] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, so good. Gorgeous. And Mike's like, it's not Will. It can't be. And they drag the body out and they can see the little red jacket that he was wearing. And Lucas says, it's him. It's Will. Dustin says, I don't understand Mike. Mike's fighting tears, totally numb. 11 tries to place a hand on his arm and he just slaps it away. And she says, mike. He says, mike. What? You were supposed to help us find him alive. You said he was alive. Eleven's fighting tears.
Mike yells at her, why did you lie to us? What is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Which is the worst thing to say to a girl who knows that she's different and also knows that she's killed people with her powers. Yeah.
And then Mike just turns and races off on his bike. Dustin says, mike, where are you going? All the boys are in tears, crying. Mike bikes back through the forest, and then Joyce is stumbling through the road far from her home, and then almost runs into the car of Jonathan coming up. And he's like, mom, mom, what's happening with that beautiful shot with the headlights highlighting them as they just hug in the middle of the road in the Wheeler house, Karen is with Nancy and Barb's parents as they're all just sitting at the couch talking. We don't hear what they say, but they all look worried. Mike just bursts in. Poor Karen is, like, over here trying to do damage control with multiple children.
Mike's just in tears. Karen comes up and holds him tight. And then meanwhile, Jonathan and Joyce are still holding tight to each other, standing in the middle of the empty, lonely street. And then we crane up. In the distance, we see the approaching police cars with their sirens on, coming to tell them that. That they found Will's body.
[01:41:48] Speaker B: Found Will.
[01:41:49] Speaker A: Damn crazy. One of. Honestly, this. Whenever I think of the first season, the sequence with the lights and then the Corey and everything, and the song is always what sticks out to me. It's one of the most beautiful sequences of the entire series, in my opinion.
[01:42:05] Speaker B: It is really good. I didn't. I remembered the scene with the lights, but I didn't remember all the other stuff to be.
[01:42:10] Speaker A: Really.
[01:42:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't remember that happening, really.
[01:42:17] Speaker A: What did you think of it when you were watching it then?
[01:42:19] Speaker B: I was just like, oh, like, obviously, I know.
Like, I. I didn't know that it happened this way.
[01:42:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:42:26] Speaker B: But I thought it was a really, really great sequence, like, with the music, like you said, and just the tension. And I can just imagine, like, watching this for the first time and just being like, whoa.
Like, he's. He's. That's his body. And. Yeah, it just. I just.
It's just all so interesting. Like, you just start to see, like. You see, like, Mike crumbling and they're just kids. I don't know. It just makes me feel so bad because they're just kids. Like, all of these characters are literally children. And, like, this is horrific stuff and they're just all doing such a good job, like, the actors.
[01:43:05] Speaker A: Yeah. But.
[01:43:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I just. I loved it.
[01:43:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a. It's a beautiful sequence, but it's also, like, we literally had her ask him if he's alive. He said he's alive, but they pulled his body out of the quarry. Does he not know he's dead? Is there something else going on here? Where was Barb? We saw Barb wake up in the Upside down. Like, and. And 11 has said that Will is somewhere else. He's at his house, but somewhere else, like, where Bob was at. So there's just a. We just don't know initially enough.
But it's so interesting.
[01:43:36] Speaker B: Love it.
[01:43:37] Speaker A: Last thing I'm gonna say is there's a quote from Wolf Hard where he was talking about how this scene. And they wanted them to cry on camera. And he's never cried on camera before. He says that Caleb could get it super easy. Just turn.
[01:43:50] Speaker B: It always cries so. So. Well, this kid's on Broadway, man.
[01:43:55] Speaker A: He knows how to turn that water.
[01:43:56] Speaker B: Caleb can literally produce tears out of thin air.
[01:44:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. He's got some great crying scenes, man.
[01:44:04] Speaker B: Yeah, he does. Oh, my God.
[01:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And so Finn's like. He could turn it on and turn it off super quick and be funny again. I had never really cried before on camera. Gaten was trying to cry and he couldn't. Gaten was laughing, I was laughing, and he couldn't do it. He says that all of a sudden, Gate just started crying. They were like, okay, start. And then he's like. And then he did it. And that was. After that, we were back to normal. It's kind of like an instantaneous thing.
[01:44:28] Speaker B: And then.
[01:44:28] Speaker A: Sean, Sean, Sean. Levy says, while the moment was sober and deeply mournful, typically, Levy says he likes to maintain a far more upbeat atmosphere during production, playing music on set to raise the actor's spirits. I'm not a director who likes the silent set, he says, I like an energy and dynamism on set because I believe that that's what ends up on screen.
He says, you cannot fight the anarchy of youth, so you just better learn how to marshal it.
[01:44:51] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's so funny. You know what that reminds me of?
What's the guy that plays Pennywise in it?
[01:44:59] Speaker A: Alexander Skarsgard.
[01:45:01] Speaker B: Skarsgard. The Skarsgard brother. He did an interview. He was, I think, on Jimmy Fallon or something. And he was telling a story about how in the first IT movie, he. There was a scene where one of the kids.
He's like, confronting one of the kids in his, like, it costume and his Pennywise costume. And it's like a very scary scene. And this kid is, like, shaking and crying for the scene, and he's very scared.
And the actor felt really bad during the scene because he's like, oh, my God, I'm traumatizing this kid. Like, he's devastated. And he said that as soon as they yelled cut, this kid, like, literally sucked his tears and his fear right back into his body. And he's just like, oh, my God, I really loved when you did that thing when you were Pennywise. And he was, like, complimenting his performance.
[01:45:50] Speaker A: Skarsgard is traumatized for life over here, and he's like.
[01:45:54] Speaker B: Skarsgrd is like, oh, my God. Like, let me give this kid a hu. Like, he must be so scared. And meanwhile, these, like, little child actors are just like Garney Goldfish.
So, like, I Just the fact that these kids are so professional, like, they can turn it on and off and, like, do this is just so impressive because to go from like, having big emotions like that to coming back down, being, like, so nonchalant about it.
[01:46:17] Speaker A: I don't know how they do it.
[01:46:18] Speaker B: I really don't know how they.
[01:46:19] Speaker A: I think I could cry on cue if I had to, but I don't know how they do it. Scene after scene, after scene seen. Because you don't just get this in one take. They typically want multiples. Once I've cried, I don't have anything else to cry about.
[01:46:30] Speaker B: Like, I can't make myself cry on. Like, I can't. I don't think I'd be able to do it. I'd have to, like, hype myself up. Like, I'd have to prepare. Think of something really sad. Like, I. I don't know. Like, I know Sarah Michelle Geller can cry.
[01:46:44] Speaker A: Yeah, we all know she can. It's ridiculous. I don't even know how she can
[01:46:48] Speaker B: literally make you rip your heart out on demand. Hand.
[01:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:46:51] Speaker B: And then just, like. Just sucks it right back into her face right after.
[01:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's a skill. I remember there's a. There's a interview with Tom Holland where he talks about how Benedict Cummer Cumberbatch gave him, like, a really cool.
I forget what the tip was, but Tom Holland was saying how he would have to, like, psych himself up or he'd have to be like, oh, my gosh, I have to get myself into this headspace or think about something really sad, or. It was emotionally wrecking Holland. And.
[01:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:47:18] Speaker A: And then Cumberbatch gave him, like, this. Really. I can't even remember what the tip is.
He gave him this really great tip about how, basically, you can cry without having to dig so deep emotionally. And it actually helps yourself protect your body. Yeah.
[01:47:32] Speaker B: Because imagine having to tap into that over and over again so that you can make yourself cry. You. You're. At the end of the day, you're just left, like, devastated.
[01:47:40] Speaker A: I don't know how. I don't know how people do it and don't develop autoimmune issues from, like, putting their bodies through so much, you know? Like, that would be me, honestly, because I'd be sitting there, like, my body can't tell the difference between what I'm actually crying about and then, like, me just psyching myself up for a scene. So. Yeah, I don't know how actors do it. You guys are. You guys are very Talented.
[01:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very impressive. No, yeah. I'd be like, I can't do this anymore. I'm gonna leave.
[01:48:09] Speaker A: I was like, never come back. Maybe that's about it.
[01:48:13] Speaker B: I feel like it's really hard. I've heard that it's really hard to cry, and it's really hard to, like, laugh.
[01:48:18] Speaker A: I've heard laughs the hardest. Did you see that one interview with.
Oh, what's his name? Hawk. Ethan Hawk. He. Someone was asking him what he thinks is the hardest thing for an actor to do, and he said, it's laughter. Because when we typically laugh, it's spontaneous. We don't think about laughing.
[01:48:34] Speaker B: Can't fake it.
[01:48:35] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[01:48:37] Speaker B: And if you're able to fake it, like, you must. I don't know, like, the people who do it well, but they're faking it. Like, I just. Just don't. They're sociopaths. Like, I don't know how you. I don't know how you do that.
[01:48:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, like, most. Most people really struggle with a spontaneous laughter. And I was like, I've never thought of that before. And he was like, he goes, laughter doesn't win you awards. It's the tears and the crying that always wins people awards. He's like, but that's not the hard part. The hard part is laughing and creating a spontaneous, spontaneous joy that seems like it's just bursting out of you in a natural way. And I was like, that is such a good point. Point.
[01:49:12] Speaker B: That's why he talk. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[01:49:16] Speaker A: But anyway. All right, well, that was a fantastic episode. I'm very excited for the next one. We have Steph from Prophecy Girls that's going to be joining us, which is gonna be our first really fun, our first guest. But also, typically, we have Steph and Kara. So this is just gonna be Steph. So it's gonna be. I. I wonder if it's her first time doing a podcast without Cara. Podcast.
[01:49:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know.
[01:49:38] Speaker A: I don't know. We'll out find out. You guys will find out too. But yeah, I'm very excited.
Hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode and we'll talk to you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us at investigating angel podcastmail.com Sam.
