Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: And if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. We have Steph with us. Welcome, Steph. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: And congratulations on completing becoming Buffy.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Thanks. It feels like a huge milestone to be, like. Not that, like, kind of like. We're finished with Investigating Angel. We're starting something new. It felt like almost finishing two podcasts, but. Yeah.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Okay. So, Steph, I have a question. Is this the first time that you've recorded without Kara?
[00:01:11] Speaker C: On a Prophecy Girls representative level? Yes. I think so. I think she should hear it from the three of us that I've ditched her. I'm ready to. Ready to abandon Prophecy Girls and join Investigating.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: You scooched right past the soft launch. Went straight for the hard launch there.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Was it Angel Season four that broke up the Prophecy Girls?
[00:01:32] Speaker C: Yes. It was my enthusiasm from it and her hate for it. I couldn't stand her negativity anymore. Just kidding. I miss her so much. I. Actually, it's funny because, Leah, you invited me, and you got everybody who's listening. Prophecy Girls, Cara and Steph, like, we are a dynamic duo. We always have been. But Kara has never watched Stranger Things before. And that's why Leia invite. And Sarah invited me to come and join them today.
And I was watching this episode with Leia a couple days ago, and I was like, wait, Leah, was I supposed to invite Cara? Because I never did. I just assumed. You just met me. I think I assumed it.
And then you confirmed. I was like, oh, good. Because then that would make me the bitch
[00:02:21] Speaker B: I was. To be fair, I was going to ask you if Kara wanted to come on, but then I forgot.
Truthfully, I forgot to ask.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: I'm so sorry, Kar.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: And then I remembered that she's. She had never watched it. So then when I remembered, I was like, oh, but she's never watched it. So, like, would she even want to come on?
[00:02:40] Speaker A: I mean, it's four episodes. She probably could have done it. So, sorry, Cara.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: Next time, I can't speak for her. I can't speak for her. I will say, if she listens to this episode, she's just very happy that the three of us came together to do something. And she's always supportive of me and my endeavors. And you two as well.
And that's me.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: You guys sound like you're breaking up.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: It was a mutually beneficial breakup.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: We are consciously uncoupling.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I was. No,
[00:03:11] Speaker B: it's been five years.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: The five years we had a really
[00:03:15] Speaker C: good run, you guys. I'll always love the memories, but, you know, sometimes you just gotta time to see other people. Yeah.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: We're toxic, right?
The spark is gone. What can I say? Oh, no.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: You're falling out of love.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Well, Cara, if you're listening, we miss you. I'm sorry that we all didn't get the memo. Next time we'll do a movie together, communicate better.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: We'll do a bonus episode and we'll, like, watch a movie together.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah, perfect.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: That'll be really fun.
[00:03:47] Speaker C: When we did. I know what you did last summer, that was so fun.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: That was really fun. I enjoyed that a lot. But okay. When it comes to. And I've said this several times. When it comes to doing Stranger Things, it's very different from the Buffy verse and that each individual episode doesn't feel like it's unique in a lot of ways because it's such a long running story. It's very serialized and so I don't often look at episode titles. So I was like, looking at my schedule and I was like, okay, what episode can we bring Steph on? And I was just like, all right, episode four. And then as I sat down to watch the episode in prep and I saw that it was called the Body, I was like, oh, I hope we're all not going to get PTSD from the last episode that we all covered.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: They even say the name of the episode in the episode like they do in the other Body.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: That's why you invited me on. I was like, are you guys being cheeky?
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah, we planned this for whatever.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Just like we plan not to have Carl.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: We purposely meant to leave her out.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: We're so on top of things.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Guys, did you guys. Do you guys, like, out of the two this body and Buffy's the body, which one would you think is a better episode?
[00:04:49] Speaker B: What kind of question is that?
[00:04:50] Speaker A: Well, what do you think we're going to say?
[00:04:52] Speaker C: I mean,
[00:04:55] Speaker B: I'm gonna have to stick to the body. Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Yes. Because I think that's a much better episode as far as, like.
Well, not. I don't know. I don't know if I should say better. I don't know. I think it's maybe technically better. And obviously the substance of it is very, like, thought provoking and deep. I think as far as enjoyability, I probably enjoyed this episode better. Just Because I don't know that I particularly like watching.
Yeah, I guess. I guess I can spoil it. Yeah.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: You know, the other body.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: The things that. The other body. I don't enjoy watching Buffy discover the body and all that stuff, you know, like, it's a beautiful episode, but it's. It. I feel like it wrings me out emotionally.
[00:05:34] Speaker C: Maybe I shouldn't have asked that. It's a hard question. Because they're two. Like, this one is right in the middle of a development of a developing plot.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:05:42] Speaker C: Whereas the body in both the universe is a standalone. It was an experiment.
It was like something that Joss Whedon was just like, I'm gonna try this. And it really worked out for them.
So, like, obviously, that's a great episode, but this episode I thought was fantastic in terms of. Of what I watched in Stranger Things leading up to this episode.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: I agree. And it's interesting because, again, we've only watched four episodes. I've actually watched the episode after this,
[00:06:08] Speaker B: so I feel like we've watched, like, 35 episodes. So much has already happened.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Because so much happens.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Not in a bad way. I just feel like so. So much has already happened. And we're only four episodes in four movies.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: Right. Like, they're long episodes.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah. It still kind of blows my mind,
[00:06:25] Speaker A: this episode, Getting used to it, and the previous one. And it's funny because right now, the episodes are not that much longer than Buffy episodes, because Buffy episodes around 44 minutes, and so are Angels. And right now, we're around 45 to 50 minutes. And it feels like. Yeah, but it feels longer.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: It does feel longer.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:43] Speaker C: Lots happens.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: This episode and the one previous were both directed. They were written by different people than the Duffers, and they were directed by Sean Levy. And I mentioned this in the last one, but I have really appreciated Shawn Levy's directing style in contrast to the Duffers. I feel like they're still very green, and it feels like they are not as dynamic with the way that they style things, the way that they are, like, staging the actors, even, like, just the interesting way that they're telling the story with their camera. And so I've enjoyed this one and the previous one in a way that I. I haven't been able to enjoy the first two.
And I really do think a lot of that is credit to Sean Levy and his eye for things. So. Yeah, anyway, okay, so this episode is written by Justin Doble, who's a producer on Cloverfield, and also the Rings of Power series directed by Sean Levy. And then aired July 15, 2016 and the Duffers say about this episode. This episode is called the Body. That's our not so subtle nod to Stephen King's short story the Body, which was the basis of for Rob Reiner's classic film Stand by Me. We love that show. And that film with all our boyish hearts and its DNA is written all over the show. You'll see kids marching down railroad tracks in the next chapter because we couldn't resist.
We have, like, nods to the Shining with Joyce putting the ax through the wall, similar to, like, Jack Torrance breaking down the bathroom. ET11's makeover mirrors Gertie dressing ET up in a dress in a wig. And then Sean Levy actually makes a cameo appearance as the corner in the Corner's office. Yeah, good for him. The Duffers say about this episode, they said that we feel like if any actor steals this episode, it's David Harbour, who plays Chief Jim Hopper. David is very much an actor's actor, and he's had a great career playing memorable side characters and villains and government agents. You probably recognize him, but you probably don't know from what the reason for this is that Hollywood has never given him that leading man role, which is something we want to rectify, and David did, too. And then they talk about how David really loved Harper because he likes that. It kind of points back to more the old school type of Hollywood hero. And we've talked about the cowboy Persona.
He really loves the Indiana Jones esque ness for, especially in this episode with, like, his hat constantly, like, leaving it or intentionally leaving it. And apparently harbor intentionally requested that Hopper would wear a hat at almost all times. He just had to have one. And he apparently knew the perfect hat maker in New York City to make it.
He even asked if they could have a giant boulder roll after him. At one point in the show, the Duffers were like, we're not sure if he was joking or not. Either way, we could never find a way to organically weave it into the show. Sorry, David. Maybe if there's a season two,
[00:09:25] Speaker B: does it eventually happen?
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Well, I guess we'll have to wait and find out, right? Spoilers?
[00:09:30] Speaker B: Well, whatever. It's just a boulder.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: I know. As I tell everybody, Barb died in episode three.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Guys, what else would have happened to Barb?
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Le have to keep everybody coming back for more. Okay.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yes, yes, of course. Of course.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: Spoiler free.
[00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, supposedly.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: Try my best.
It's interesting, their observation about thinking that David Harbour was the standout for this episode, because I thought he was great. But I actually thought that Nancy was the standout for me for this episode and most of the other women like Joyce and.
[00:10:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I thought it was Jonathan.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: I was gonna agree with Jonathan. Or even Choice.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:14] Speaker C: Charlie Heaton, I think, really stood out for me when I was watching this because I was like, damn, I feel really bad for this creepy little kid.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: The creeper in the bush.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah. The scene with his mom in the street was very emotionally moving.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And just the way that this.
Cause he is a kid. Was he 16, 17? The way that he is forced to. To adulthood with this situation. His mother is not holding it together in his eyes, and he has to now plan his little baby brother's funeral.
The way he reacted to when he first sees the body.
Just trying. Just trying to hold it together for himself at this point because his dad's a deadbeat and not around and his mom is completely in denial.
So I think there was one scene where he's lying on his bed with the headphones on and, like, I just feel for him.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: I think that he really.
[00:11:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think this is. It's not Jonathan's episode, but he stood out to me.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: I. I didn't think, like, I just thought there were. I think these four characters were really featured in this episode. Like, this episode didn't feel like a one character episode to me. Like, nobody really stood out specifically because I thought that every. All those four characters, like Hopper, Nancy, Joyce, and Jonathan all had stuff going on.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: So I'm sure we'll get to it. But, like, as this was the fourth episode of season one, I felt like each character was finally given something to really do. Everybody stepped up to move the plot forward.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: And it makes sense that the fourth episode of the series would do that, because the first three, lots of development has to happen. Lots of setting the scene and lots of, like, oh, this is the scene, but here's a stranger part of the scene. You know, lots of that happening. And now in this episode. And again, we could talk about as we go through, but I noticed the way characters were no longer, I guess, fighting against each other, and they're starting to come together to be like, stranger things are happening in this town.
Let's investigate. Like, things are moving with everybody in this episode.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Episode.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Which is good.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting you say that because we discussed this in one of our earlier episodes, but the Duffers arranged the season as if it was a movie. So they had their three acts, and I believe they said the first three episodes are Act 1, and then 4, 5 and 6, I think are Act 2, and maybe even 4, 5, 6, 7, and then 8 is the final act. So I think we are officially moving into the second act section of the season. And I think you can really tell because it's like, wow, things are ramping up.
[00:12:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: Something I really noticed and what I mean by I felt like Nancy and Joyce and Elle were standouts in thematically. So a lot of themes in this episode of women feeling helpless and powerless and unheard and not believed. Joyce begs Hopper to believe her and isn't initially listened to by either him or Jonathan. Nancy isn't believed by Steve, Karen or the deputies. Elle's called a liar by Mike and initially not believed by him. And then Dustin and Lucas. And again, taking the cultural context into account, this is time where appearances and normative behavior really mattered. As we have more of the conservative push of the 80s focus on nuclear families. And they. That was the pillars of. That was the well defined, stereotypical gender roles. And there was this belief that men are to be strong, decisive and aggressive and conquerors and women are to be domestic, responsible, loyal and well quaffed, essentially. So it was all about, like, presenting strength to the world and that the. The nation would become stronger if they went back to these more conservative ideals and morale and all that stuff. So, like Elle being given a dress in a wig to help her blend in and be more palatable for the world so she won't stand out.
And I feel like even Lucas kind of softens towards her a little bit after that. Joyce is seen as a failure in her feminine role because she is a working mom, a single mom. She's not wealthy, doesn't have the time or money to keep herself looking as well put together.
[00:14:19] Speaker C: She's divorced.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: I know, right? Pariah is, I think Leia yelled out last episode, stone her.
But it's even been said by Lonnie that she's not a good parent, which is why Will is missing, like, there's like a subtle undertone of like, oh, she's the reason that Will's gone. And then we have Nancy getting increasingly frustrated with society's rules after she's marked as someone that is not fitting in with the conservative depiction of girlhood. She had sex. People are starting to be like, I think that you're a little bit questionable in what you're telling us and stuff. And there's a couple of moments that we'll talk about that I felt like were really interesting. And I felt like the director, Sean Levy Made an. An interesting push towards the way that he filmed Nancy in this episode. And I'm really excited to talk about it. There's some, like, interesting camera angles and stuff, but, yeah, I don't know. As I was going through, I was like, wow, there's a lot of women not being believed in this episode. And it was. It was kind of interesting.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: What else is new?
[00:15:21] Speaker A: I know I'm, like, sitting here, I'm like, I mean, are you. Are we surprised? But, like, at the same time, I'm like, oh, guys, there's a theme here. It's like, well, is that not the theme for everything?
[00:15:30] Speaker B: And then there's Karen. Sweet, sweet Karen.
[00:15:33] Speaker C: My queen Karen, just living her own life.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: She knows what she's doing, trying to
[00:15:38] Speaker B: get through to her daughter, following the
[00:15:40] Speaker C: rules, and the rules are not working out for her. And that's too bad for Karen.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: She's ahead of her time, that one.
[00:15:47] Speaker C: She's hot as.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: She's hot as.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Steps here. Steps here.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: That's a milk.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Oh, good. I'm so glad you're here to verify. Was not sure at all.
[00:16:03] Speaker C: It is true.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: All right, so we are in the Byer's house. We open up a few minutes after where the last episode ended, with Hopper and his officers investigating the buyer's house. Callahan is talking to Jonathan Joyce out front, while Hopper and Pal check out inside the house. The powers off, presumably from the interactions with whatever it was that was communicating with Joyce, possibly Will, we don't know.
The dark strings of light bulbs hanging around the house almost remind me of spider's webs. We get an ominous tracking shot from Powell in front of the house to Hopper coming up the hallway. Before we follow Hopper to where Powell is looking at the Alphabet wall. Like from the. Like the first shot. This episode visually grabs you and the camera's moving quite a lot. And it's just really enjoyable to watch.
Powell asks if this is the wall that Joyce was talking about, referring to the monster trying to get through the wall in the previous episode. We see Hopper staring at it. We get a flashback a few minutes ago in that exact same spot where he told Joyce about pulling Will's body from the quarry. Hopper's voice is all echoey. There's like a faint ring as we circle a clearly, completely disassociated Joyce. The script says it sounds muffled, like it's deep underwater.
Hopper's voice comes into focus as he asks Joyce if she understands what he's saying. She says no, that whoever he found is not Will and that she Talked to him a half hour ago. She shows him the hidey hole, explains the concept of light, says that Will was hiding from the thing that came out of the wall. Hopper's trying to understand. Jonathan is so just distraught. He's clearly grieving, thinks his mom's in denial. He tries to calm her down. She's having none of it. The script says that Jonathan fights tears. He's lost his brother and now he's losing his mom.
That's so sad.
Then she explains that the monster had long arms, didn't have a face. Jonathan just sobs and leaves the room like he can't. He can't take this anymore. And then Hopper gently leads Joyce to the couch, tells her to listen to him, that after Sarah, his daughter, died, he saw her and heard her too. He didn't know what was real, and then figured out that it was just in his mind. He had to pack it all away. Joyce is like, you're talking about grief. I'm. This is different. And then she's like, I swear I know what I saw and I'm not crazy. And she's like, please believe me. And he doesn't answer. And he's just like, gets himself sleep. You have to go to the morgue the next day to ID the body and get some answers.
And then he takes off and she just stares at the wall like it's enemy number one and then just moves forward. Like you could tell she's got like this fighting stance. Like she's about ready to just punch a hole straight through it. Rough first scene. But I love that we just jumped right back into where we were at. Because the way it left off, I was like, I need to know more. Yeah.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: I felt like the last episode, in this episode, it felt like. I mean, I know the first and second episode were also kind of. They went into each other.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:44] Speaker B: But this one, I feel like more happened in the last episode where like, it's like anticipation building. They find a body and it's like, you want to find out? So it. This feels like one long movie, like one long episode, you know?
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:59] Speaker C: And I think this was the first time that like what I said earlier about how I feel for Jonathan, I feel like this is Jonathan or Charlie Heaton, his actors time to shine. Because what I'm feeling from the way he reacts to Joyce's reaction, which is a non reaction to her just being like, nah, that, that's not my kid. I don't believe you.
She's forgetting about her other kid.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, my gosh that was the theme for this episode. It was like, hello.
[00:19:29] Speaker C: Yeah, like, it's like, I, God forbid, am ever put in a position like this.
I can't imagine for parents that have to go through something like this. But that's all I saw amidst what's happening. Possibly because as the audience members, we know that that's not Will, or maybe we don't. But like you, you know, something stranger is happening.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: You're starting to believe Joyce.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: Like, I think, yeah, it's like I, I, there's more to it than what they're showing us here. And we get that as the audience member. But Jonathan doesn't see that, you know, all he sees is like, my brother's dead, confirmed. And my mom won't hug me.
My mom is not going to console me. I'm still a kid too.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: She doesn't even seem to be grieving, so I can't even share in that with her, you know?
[00:20:18] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm alone. Right. That's, I feel for him.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Yep.
So then Hopper starts his car and then he ends up just leaning kind of back against the headrest and taking a beat. The script says that he decides to sleep there that night because he is concerned about the buyers. And then he fiddles with the blue bracelet on his arm while he does so.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: Yeah, that made me fall in love with Hopper.
So, like, I'm a fan of Stranger Things and I've watched obviously the whole series before, but really, I don't think I've watched season one for a couple years. Because remember, you get a season, then you wait two years, you get a new season and you wait two years and then it's always like, oh, I always want to go back and rewatch it, but I don't think I did that this time around. So it's been a couple years and by this time around, I mean, like since the fifth season dropped, but Hopper was just like, okay, whatever. But now I think I've reached. It's been a decade. I think I'm of the age where I'm like, no, Hopper is actually super fucking sexy.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: And this episode in particular too. He's like punching people.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: When he's like, okay, he's going, you know, before he's just like coffee and contemplation.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: Like, that was very literally his live laugh love of the middle aged man.
[00:21:29] Speaker C: But now he's, he's like, he's got a spark in him and him literally staying behind and like, it's pretty clear why he wants to stay in his car. It's because I don't know if it's suicide watch on his end.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:41] Speaker C: Or if he just legitimately understands what it's like to be a grief stricken parent.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's what it is.
[00:21:49] Speaker C: Can he sees Joyce and he. He knows they have a history.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:53] Speaker C: I think. I don't know what he's thinking. Does he. Does he believe her? Probably not.
He probably thinks she's hallucinating or she's just in some weird denial state with her grief. But the point is, is that he understands it. He's seen it in himself. He is still depressed by the death of his daughter.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Like, this is for an opening scene for, like the beginning of an episode. I'm like, this is. There's so much here and it's so sad all around, you know, I also
[00:22:19] Speaker A: felt like this episode was the one where we kind of got to see a different side of Hopper, one that is a little bit more purposeful.
He almost felt like he had a little bit of possibly the old spark. We haven't seen it, but like he almost had a reason to. To live, to do things. Not that he didn't before, but it just. It felt like we have been watching. And Hopper, that's very aimless, kind of just going through the motions. And this one, he's, like, focused, and I think it's taking his mind off of his own issues.
And it was kind of. It was a fun side of him, honestly, to watch. But.
Okay, so this moment, I think, Steph, you were referencing it before. So Jonathan's wearing the headphones, he's crying in his bed. He has his arms wrapped around himself, trying to, like, self soothe. It's so sad.
This is a really interesting moment. So the music that's playing is Atmosphere by Joy Division. The script says it's what Jonathan is listening to. So that music we hear playing is actually the music that Jonathan's listening to.
It's actually one of the bands that Jonathan had mentioned to Will in the flashback where they were listening to music to drown out the sounds of their parents arguing. So in this moment, Jonathan is mourning and remembering Will through retreating to their shared safe space by listening to music they both enjoyed. Which is especially touching when we get to the next scene with Mike and Elle and we hear Will singing the other song that he and Jonathan listened to together, most likely also trying to retreat to his shared space of listening to music to comfort himself. So they're both. They're both comforting themselves with the memories of each other, which I think Is so stinking cute.
[00:23:52] Speaker C: Am I gonna cry?
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Literally.
Literally. Oh, my gosh. I have a longer thing on that later, but. Oh, so good.
[00:23:59] Speaker B: I feel like the soundtrack of this show is, like its own character. Like, I'm starting to realize the music is so important, like, all the way to the end.
I know online they talk a lot about the music on this show, too, and it's very much like, of the era, which I love.
If I only could.
[00:24:17] Speaker C: An August 2000. Sorry, that's too soon.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Too soon.
[00:24:20] Speaker C: I can't wait.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Can't wait.
So ready for that.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: But, yeah, like, the. The soundtrack of this show is, like, super important. Not just for, like. Yeah, setting the mood and stuff, but for the characters in general. Like, the songs mean something, and I really like that.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yep. So then Joyce, we see her as the music's playing. She stops outside Jonathan's door. She's like, it. She obviously hasn't slept a wink. It's like she wants to comfort him, but she also seems frustrated at what to say. Say, like, she doesn't quite believe Will is dead. So she's like, if I go in there, I'm going to be comforting him for something that isn't real. And it's. I. I almost can, like, see her brain spinning. I wonder if she's like, if I find Will, then he'll stop mourning. So if I do that, then, like, that's the best way I can help him. But of course, that's not what Jonathan feels, you know?
Then she just straight up marches to the shed and emerges with an ax in a very, you know, get the hell away from my son attitude. Classic Joyce. Right here. She plops down on the couch, armed and ready. I was like, how did. Proper. Not here.
[00:25:21] Speaker C: He already left.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
So then at the Wheeler house, Ted and Karen are watching the news coverage. The discovery of Will's body. Crazy that they would announce that it's Will before there's an autopsy or an actual investigation or anything. They just were, like, suspicious. Yeah. Like, this is Will.
And then Ted asked Karen, should I go down and talk to Michael? Oh, I don't know, Ted. Like, let's add on to your wife's mental load. How about we just make a decision on our own? You're dead. I don't think he can tie his shoes without Karen. Honestly, Karen's just trying to hold it all together. She's like, okay, I have one kid that was gone all night, is probably having sex with this mysterious Steve dude who. I don't know who it is. And then now her daughter's coming back, claiming that her best friend is missing. And then now we have her other son's best friend who's, like, showing up dead like Karen's. Karen's going through a lot, so she says, give him time. He'll come to us when he's ready. I was like, oh, no, Karen, I to have your patience and wisdom, Karen.
And then she goes and grabs Ted's hand. And I thought this was really interesting. It wasn't in the script. And it's almost like the way this scene is played out. The actors are trying to convey how the strain and distance in their relationship is obviously affecting them, but they're still, like, looking for that comfort that they can receive from someone.
And then the basement. Mike's looking through old DND drawings that we're assuming Will has drawn Elle's fiddling with the walkie talkie in the sheep fort. He's angry at her, asks her to stop. She continues. And then he gets fed up, lashes out, asks her if she was deaf and says that he thought they were friends. Friends don't lie to each other. He says she made him think Will was okay and that he was still out there, but he wasn't. El just looks devastated as he's yelling at her and hurt. And then Mike says that she hurt him. And then what she did sucks and that Lucas was right about her all along.
And then Elle just watches him for a minute and then goes back to fiddling again with a determined look on her face. And then we hear Will's voice breaking through the static as he sings, should I stay or should I go? And then Mike runs over and we see Elle has a bloody nose. And she hands the walkie talkie to him, like, here, hello? And then Will continues to sing. Mike tries to talk to him, and then Will doesn't respond. And then Mike's like, is that really Will? And El's, like, confirming that it. That it is, which is our. Also for the audience, our confirmation that, okay, Will is actually dead. Crazy, because by the end of the. The last episode, at least when I first watched it, I was like, oh, shoot, he might actually be dead. Maybe there is some supernatural something at play where he is a ghost or whatever.
So I love how this was hinted at, like, with Elle humming along with. I think it was the previous episode with the phone's dial tone. When she goes around the. The wheeler's house, she picks up the ph goes.
And I think that the fact that radios are the boy's own special form of communication and how they're kind of using that as a way to also find Will is a really interesting concept.
And we talked about in the essay Transmissions from the Upside down by Jennifer Kirby how the show uses punk and post punk as a pathway of communications for the characters, particularly in between the Upside down and the normal world. But it's also its use of sound technologies. So first the telephone, now the radio. They say the show depicts sound technologies as crucial components in alternative private channels of communication within subcultures that are capable of forming bonds between individuals. So the radios between the D and D boy community, the punk music between Jonathan and Will. And they talk about how this use of sound as a tool is used as for establishing connections that exist in exist outside of official channels, which shows Will's voice breaking through the boundaries between ontological realms with the audio transmission of him singing. And so they say in this way, so called alternative music acts as a liminal force that allows the characters to contact the upside down and transgresses boundaries between the normal and the alternative or the non normative worlds. So the show thus musically evokes the uncanny presence of this alternative realm. In this way, sound and music are privileged for not only their ability to craft spatial boundaries, but also to evoke that which cannot be expressed through visual means alone. And that's kind of what Leia was saying about it being its own character and how important it is to the characters.
I just. And I think that the fact that we not only hear Will singing, but him singing through the walkie talkie, which is the boy's own special way of communication, is something really special, I think.
And I like how they do it every season. Not to give spoilers, but there's always something each season that kind of connects everybody a little bit. It. All right, so in the Byers house, it's morning. Joyce had fallen asleep on the couch. And then she dreams that she's being called by Will. But sadly, it's just her other grieving child who needs attention. How dare he.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: That was a very. That was a very spooky shot, by the way, when she wakes up and it looks like Will and then it's instead it's Jonathan. And she's like, fuck yeah.
[00:30:21] Speaker C: And I was just like, you can love him too.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: And you know what I was thinking when you guys were talking earlier? I was like, I wonder how Joyce would be if it was Jonathan that was missing and Will that was there.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: She'd be like, oh, he's fine. Jonathan always takes care of himself. Yeah, he's always been so self sufficient.
[00:30:41] Speaker C: He had a nice life.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: He'll find his way back to us somehow.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Darn. Who's gonna make breakfast for Will?
[00:30:48] Speaker C: The baby of the family, Right?
[00:30:51] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:30:54] Speaker A: So Jonathan tells her they have to go.
He's like, we have to go to the morgue to see Will. And then at the Wheeler house, Karen's going into Mike's room and he's in his bed, like, oh, I'm so sick. And she's like, hey, do you think you can go to bed, sweetie? And he's like, no, I just. I don't think I can. She's like, I understand.
She's like, I have to go drop off Nancy, check on Barb's parents. She's like, you can grab a book and then we can go to the video store and you can get an R rated movie. And I saw a comment on Reddit where someone said when mom says you can run an R rated video, you know is bad.
Mike insists on staying home. Karen's like, oh, wow, this is bad. You don't even want to do that. So she's like, call your dad if you need help. She leaves. And he's like, bye. And then jumps out completely clothed, shoes on, everything, like, I love it. Gloomy demeanor is instantly gone. The script says that he's not sad, he's on a mission. He's full on Ferris Bueller this.
So then he walkie talkies Lucas. Lucas doesn't want to hear anything. He's grieving. But Mike tells him he's not messing around, says screw the funeral and that it's not about that Lucas should bring Dustin. Meet the house. And we don't see Lucas's reaction, but I'm shocked he agreed to it, honestly.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: So the other two didn't go to school either?
[00:32:04] Speaker A: Apparently not.
[00:32:05] Speaker C: Skip, no one has to go to school. Your. Your friend's dead. That's true.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: I like Mike and Joyce. Have the same energy. Fudge the funeral. Fudge that body. Like, yeah, I don't believe it.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: We need to find Will. Get ourselves in action here. So at the corner's office, Hopper's waiting on Joyce and Jonathan from the lobby strikes up a conversation with the receptionist about how long it's taking. She tells him that everything has been cha. Chaotic without Gary.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Did he sleep with her too?
[00:32:34] Speaker A: They're regular.
[00:32:37] Speaker C: I hope so.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Hopper's just made his way through everyone in town.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: We're trying to figure out who Hopper's dating because The Venn diagram. A few women so far.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: The librarian.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: Dating anyone he's banging?
[00:32:50] Speaker B: He is. He's lucky. Everyone.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Yeah. He has. All over. Hawkins dating anyone. The question is, has he dated Joyce? Has he banged Joyce? We don't know yet. We don't know.
[00:32:57] Speaker C: Oh, we don't know. Possibly when they were teenagers. Majors.
[00:33:02] Speaker A: So we found out that Gary, the regular coroner, is gone and that the men from State sent him home. And Hopper is immediately like, then who did the autopsy?
[00:33:11] Speaker B: Suspicious.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: The gal's like, well, someone from State. And Hopper's like,
[00:33:17] Speaker C: okay.
[00:33:18] Speaker A: So then we have a very tasteful shot of Jonathan and Joyce watching from behind glasses. And we see the reflection of the corner uncovering Will's body. It's reflected on the window on Jonathan and Joyce's. His face. And it creates this, like, disassociative feel, almost like another layer of removal from the actual event, which is probably how it feels for Jonathan and maybe Joyce to a certain extent. Jonathan's horrified, immediately starts gagging and takes off. And then Joyce just looks confused and is like, okay, show me the birthmark on his left arm.
This girl's like, we're getting to the bottom of this.
Back in the office, Jonathan and Hopper are in the lobby. Hopper asks Jonathan how Joyce is doing, and. And Jonathan's like, I'm just not sure. Hopper asks how long the lights and the thing in the wall has been going on. Jonathan says he thinks since the first phone call. Says that she's had anxiety problems in the past, but this he doesn't know. And he's worried. And then he kind of just, like, breaks it off and then goes, she'll be okay, and we're gonna be okay. And it's like, he says, my mom is tough. And it's like he immediately goes into protective mode. Like, not just for his mom, but also for Hopper. It's like he's trying to protect Hopper's feelings and his need to, like. Like, maybe intervene or protect them, which I think is part of his parentification of always needing to, like, step in, you know, and then minimizing his own feelings, too. Like, I just feel so bad for him.
[00:34:38] Speaker C: Smoothing the way for the adults that can't hold their together around him.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Exactly. So Hopper seems to sense this because he kind of cuts him off, puts a hand on his shoulder and is like, hey. Like, yeah, she is. And then it's interrupted by Sean Levy, the corner coming out, chasing Joyce down with paperwork. He's like, you need to sign this. And she's like, like, that thing in there, it's not my son. I like how she refuses to hear Hopper out. She's like, no, put your finger up.
I'm like, set your boundaries, Joyce.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: Joyce for president. Honestly, so. So my understanding of this is that there was no birthmark, because how would. Yeah, how would. I don't know. Number one, I don't know how the government got this body to begin with.
Like, I don't know how that happened, but, like. Yeah, how would they know the details that only a mother who's bathed their child their whole lives would know? So I think. I'm pretty sure that's where she got her evidence, right? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: And then we're now at the high school. We're between two buildings outside the field. Nancy is finishing up telling Steve about her adventure the day before and how she went back to his house to look for Barb.
Steve, we're. Steve. Suspicious Steve. We don't know how to feel about him at this point.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: Yeah, he's an asshole.
[00:35:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a narcissistic asshole.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: Yeah, he's very privileged.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: You can tell. You can tell he does like Nancy, but you can also tell that he likes himself.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: Yes, that's so true.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: And he's also. He. He lives in a world of privilege. He comes from a wealthy family. He's probably an only child.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: And he has shit friends. Those two annoying ass friends that he has. What are even their names? The one guy who.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: Tommy, like, Carol.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Tommy, the actor was like, I played this role with such depth, depth and passion. And everybody remembered my role.
[00:36:24] Speaker A: He was like. He really transformed Tommy into somebody that just stuck out on screen. And I was like, what?
[00:36:29] Speaker B: Yeah, stuck out is annoying.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: All I saw. All I saw was freckles.
Yeah, he stuck at home.
No, you could tell the actor, like, wrote his own thing. It was so funny.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Yeah, like on IMDb.
[00:36:40] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: He was like. He just.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: He.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: He took this character from a one dimensional, you know, presentation to something so much more nuanced. And you're like, calm down.
[00:36:50] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: This is the first of many shots of Nancy that is shot from lower down. And it's to create this sense of isolation. And Nancy feeling very small, very powerless, like, be being between the two buildings as she's not being believed by Steve and feeling very powerless, I guess is the word I was looking for. But Steve's like, why didn't you talk to me? She says, I was scared. He says, it's kind of weird you went back to my house. And he was like, did you seriously see a guy in a mask hanging around in the yard? She's like, I don't think it was a mask. And he's like, but it had no face. Nancy's unsure, but she tells him that she has a terrible feeling about this. And Steve's like, oh, this is really bad. And then he says that the cops are going to want to talk to everyone who's at that party and that his parents are going to murder.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: You mean the four people that were there?
[00:37:44] Speaker A: Yeah. What?
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Two of which are literally right here in this.
In the scene right now.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Everyone at the party, and it's him.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: And Nancy Leigh and I were laughing. We're like, wait, you mean when you had your three friends over?
[00:37:57] Speaker A: What party?
[00:37:59] Speaker C: My dad's alcohol is my dad's alcohol, okay? We stole it. And he's not gonna be happy about it.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: It's them. Barb and the Demogorgon. Yeah, this thing is a Barb and then Bush.
[00:38:11] Speaker C: Who cares about Barb?
[00:38:12] Speaker B: Jonathan from the Bush
[00:38:16] Speaker C: Jonathan.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: But then also, it's like, Steve, your parents probably already know because the heating bill to heat that pool is, like, astronomical. So they came home and saw that. That bill, they're like, okay, who'd you have over? Where's Tommy and Carol? Let's go.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: No, Sarah, this is the 80s. Everything is cheap.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: The.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: The water bill was probably like 50 cents back then.
Okay? People were buying houses.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: To them, that was 10,000.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Three. Three dollar houses.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Valid point.
[00:38:43] Speaker C: Valid point. Absolutely right.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: But Nancy's like, are you serious right now? Steve's like, you don't understand. My dad is an. Andy's like, he's not the only one. No, she says, Barb is missing. You're worried about your dad. Steve's like, hey, can you just not mention the beers when you talk to the cops? It's just gonna get us in trouble. And this really has nothing to do with Barb. Never mind the fact that, like, you know, her getting her thumb cut is probably what led to the monster finding her. But, you know, okay, whatever. Nancy can't believe him. She storms off. I love how he's like, nancy, like, where the heck are you? How dare you not respond when I call your name.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: Girls have never walked away from this boy before because he's so dreamy and
[00:39:20] Speaker A: it makes him love her more.
[00:39:22] Speaker C: I liked this scene.
[00:39:23] Speaker B: I.
[00:39:24] Speaker C: And I liked this episode a lot for Nancy, as you said, Sarah, like, you think this is Nancy's, like, time to shine. I totally agree with you because I think this is the first time when she starts really getting into the investigation.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: That she, she shows some pluck.
[00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:37] Speaker C: Right. She's not just like a moon eyed, starry eyed schoolgirl who though the popular kids in love with like wants to get with me. That would be exciting were this not a Stranger Things episode. Right. So it's showing depth to her. It's showing that she has more strength in her than what originally the original beginning of the scene would show us.
I think this is really important for her to walk away from Steve. I think it's really important to show that she now sees Steve for who he is.
And Steve has revealed himself to be a narcissistic asshole who doesn't give a shit about Nancy's problems, cares more about his own problems. And that's such a turn off for her, you know. So I think this is a good scene to show why Nancy would seek help. Help to people who are more sympathetic for her.
And it also goes into that whole thing that I was saying earlier about how these, in this episode, these characters are starting to see the truth.
They're going to see the truth in one way or another, all of them before. And they need to see that truth before they can move forward.
So this was Nancy's truth. She's like, wait a second.
You're not a safe space. Space for me to grieve my friend, to worry about my friend.
I'm out.
And I like this for her.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: I think they've also done like just a good job of building up to this in the first three episodes. Like I've been saying he doesn't. Like I've been saying that Nancy, like Nancy's experience with Steve feels very much like something that she wants to do. But at the same time it's been like hinted like it just feels unsafe. It feels like she's not sure about it. It feels like like the show is signaling to us that her and Steve are not on the same page. And now there's like strange things happening. Right. And this is going to get in between them. So yeah, I think it's, I think it's been built up well. Like this is. This is not surprising.
[00:41:38] Speaker C: Great development for Nancy.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: Yeah. This episode, 100% is the turning point for Nancy and this is strike one for Nancy. There are several strikes that happen of that kind of push her to that to the conclusion at the very end.
And it's, it's the turning point for Nancy and kind of like the, the, the veil is being lifted off of how easily she's been able to maneuver through society because she's fit a very specific mold. And now that she's kind of going, I don't meet that criteria anymore, she's starting to see how people are treated on the other side. But it's also this sense of I don't know if I want to be a part of that anymore. And I think I might maybe actually be somebody different than that and I'm not being received as well. And so there's a frustration there and that's part of her journey and I think that's really, really cool. She, to me right now, she's one of the most interesting characters of the show.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: And I wonder if this is gonna lead her and like Jonathan to like, get closer.
Yeah, I don't really remember what happens, but yeah, I feel like this is their kind of. Of aligning them to be kind of on the same path and maybe it's going to draw them together.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Like you, you have love. Not that this is a love triangle, but you usually have one girl and two separate boys who are very on different sides of the track. The werewolf and the vampire. You usually have different guys that represent the two different paths that a girl can choose. And this is kind of Nancy's. Is she going to. To conform and live the normal girl life or is she going to do something different and work outside of society's normal bounds? And I think that's always very interesting and that's very adolescent too.
[00:43:18] Speaker C: Well, I mean, she's already lived outside the bounds. Not that she, like, didn't have friends, she had Barb, but they were clearly nerds. And that's another draw. Why? Like, oh my God, like popular sporty jockey Steve wants to get with me. A nerd. This was her chance to become the. A popular girl.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:35] Speaker C: Or somebody who is enviable in this school, which I think most girls at that school would, you know, want to be. But clearly Barb's disappearance and her guilt over that is going to derail what might have been a nice rom com for her.
But no, it's definitely something that she's taking very seriously in her own development. And it's really enjoyable to watch her find herself this way, even if it's hard because her friend is missing.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed.
Speaking of hard, this next scene is really, really emotionally a lot. So we're back in town. Joyce is still walking down the street after storming out of the coroner's office. Jonathan's driving up next, or practically begging her to get in the car with him. She weighs him off says she needs to think she'll meet him at home. She's, like, not even really facing him. And then when she waves him off, he parks the car, runs after her. I don't know, Leia. If you noticed his, like, weird sideways run a little bit, it wasn't as bad here, but you have to look it up. Charlie Heaton intentionally ran sideways to make him to emphasize how weird. Jonathan.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: Yeah, they brought it up on, like, a talk show host. So, like, have you seen. It's so funny.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: It's one of my favorite things. It's not as bad in that moment, but you can kind of see when
[00:44:55] Speaker B: he has really, like, emotional scenes where he's screaming at somebody. His English accent event comes through so hard, you could tell he's. He's English. Like, he's British mad.
[00:45:06] Speaker C: He's English.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: Oh, he looks English too. His whole complexion does not scream boy from Indiana. It's giving pale English boy by the seaside who's never seen.
[00:45:16] Speaker C: Yeah, the seaside is key. Like, he's. He's weather worn.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: He lives somewhere that's damp.
[00:45:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: He looks like he's lived somewhere damp and has had pneumonia a couple times in his life.
[00:45:28] Speaker C: He's a Nema gimmick, perhaps.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: I never smokes chain smokes.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: I never understood why people in, like, those old Victorian movies be like, oh, she's dying of tuberculosis. We must take her to the sea to get better. I'm like, isn't that where you're gonna develop pneumonia?
[00:45:47] Speaker C: Yeah, that's not where you would take someone with.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: Wait, so why did they take them to the sea?
[00:45:52] Speaker A: I think there was this sense of sunshine.
[00:45:55] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like a fresh air take to the sea.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And putting the cow out to the pasture, sending your dog to Shooter.
[00:46:06] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: It's like a make a wish thing where you take them out.
[00:46:10] Speaker A: I mean, like, but, like.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: No, but that's why Jonathan is so well casted. That's why Charlie was such a good cast. Because he does look like. He looks like he's been neglected.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Oh, weirdo.
[00:46:23] Speaker C: If he wasn't raised by the ocean amidst chainsmokers, then he certainly had no love in his life. And his father abandoned him. His mom ignores him.
[00:46:35] Speaker B: Steph, I have a question for you. Okay, we're gonna do a crossover right now. Angel and Stranger Things.
Okay, who is more rat boy? Connor. No last name angel or Jonathan.
[00:46:50] Speaker A: They have the same haircut too, don't they?
[00:46:53] Speaker B: So does Cordelia in season four. She has the same haircut every episode.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: Cordelia catches just strays from Leia. She's not letting this go.
[00:47:03] Speaker C: Connor is obviously rat king. Like, that's, that's who he is. Jonathan's not rat boy because Jonathan, like we're talking looks here in look wise. Yeah. Like, look wise.
Jonathan doesn't look young. Jonathan looks like a man in his 60s. Yeah. Like he just, you know, stuck in a child's body.
No hate, no shame. A lot of girls are into that.
I just, I. It works. Yeah. No, Connor and his actor, like, just, just plucky 17 year old rat sneers. You know, like, he sneers. Whereas Jonathan would never sneer. He just, he just get. He's actually. I just want to wrap him up. Puppy. Yeah, yeah. Like a drowned puppy.
[00:47:47] Speaker A: A drowned puppy.
[00:47:49] Speaker B: A puppy at the seaside.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah. They took him to the seaside to drown him.
[00:47:54] Speaker C: You're too far gone when you leave an apple in the fridge for too long and it starts getting like wrinkly and brown.
[00:48:02] Speaker A: A raisin in the wind.
[00:48:03] Speaker C: And Nancy's like, ooh, yeah.
[00:48:06] Speaker A: Nancy's like, oh, I like that. Yeah.
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.
[00:48:12] Speaker C: Great actor, great scene. Oh, my God.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Not unattractive, but very English looking is all we're trying to say. Is all we're trying to say.
[00:48:20] Speaker C: Amongst all the things. Yeah.
[00:48:22] Speaker A: So anyway, very, very sad scene. So sad.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: Sorry. To all the Brits out there.
[00:48:28] Speaker C: Yeah. All the Brits actually.
[00:48:29] Speaker A: Catching strays.
[00:48:31] Speaker C: It's actually a great scene, by the way. Like, just, just. It is. Looks very emotional energy aside, he like the fact that he has to yell at his mom in this time period. Yes. Anyone who's been through a situation where someone has died and we're all grieving except for. But Joyce isn't grieving. And that is so frustrating. And he's like, I need you. He can't say I need you because he wasn't raised to be that way. But that's what he wants to scream at her, right? Like, be there for me. He's like, while you're off doing whatever the fuck you're doing, I have a funeral to plan. And this is just like horrible.
[00:49:10] Speaker B: He couldn't be more than 16, right? Like 16, 17.
He's a kid.
[00:49:15] Speaker C: So this hit me again. This is why I'm like, this episode's Jonathan's, because I feel for the kid. This is really, really tough.
But again, it goes along with the idea that Joyce, she sees the truth, right?
She believes with all her heart that this is not her son and she needs that so that she can move forward with the plot and get to what is actually happening around here, here. So it is hurting her son. And that's the sad part about it. Jonathan doesn't understand. He's like, why am I alone in this? You should be right here with me. And she's not. But that's necessary for Joyce's development.
[00:49:55] Speaker A: It's sad, too, because we. And we talked about this, I think, in the last episode, which I felt like was also another very strong Jonathan episode. We kind of saw the flashbacks with him and Will and then him talking to his dad and all that stuff. Jonathan is the one that is. Is not that Joyce isn't being impacted by their social standing, but she isn't as bothered by it. Jonathan's the one that's. His future is also being impacted by the way that Joyce is acting. And so they're drawing a crowd as they're screaming at each other right now. And Jonathan's the one who sees it, obviously, and is. Is affected by it. But Joyce just doesn't care. She just keeps moving on. And I. I get it, partially because it's like, I'm gonna find my son. I don't care who sees and everything. But Jonathan is. Is shouldering yet another weight, which is also society's expectations, society's judgments and all that other stuff. And, you know, he still has to go back to school and still. Still get an education, be apart with all his peers, and he's already a pariah. He's had, you know, his camera broken. Like, he's feeling all this stuff, and he has no one to talk to about it. And it's just so, so sad.
[00:51:02] Speaker C: Please tell them we'll come talk to him soon.
Yeah, pretty and young like him.
[00:51:08] Speaker A: Someone he maybe looked at through a bush.
[00:51:11] Speaker C: Yeah, Someone who's raw. He's seen.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Perhaps with the camera.
[00:51:17] Speaker A: We're now at the Wheeler house, and we essentially have like, a repeat conversation from the scene before. Only this is with Lucas, Dustin, Mike, and Elle. Elle's got the walkie talkie. We just hear Will crying. The boys think that it's a baby. Lucas in particular is just like, you just tapped into a baby monitor. He's the skeptic. Dustin, you can tell, is a little bit more on the fence.
He talks about, like, hey, remember that one time Will fell off his bike? I think we heard Will sound like that a little bit. And then Mike's like, well, I think that L is channeling Will. And then Dustin's like, oh, yeah, like Professor X from X Men. Like, he seems a Lot more willing to believe in the supernatural, the ghosts and all the imaginative stuff.
And then Lucas reminds him that they saw Will's body being pulled out of the water. Dustin's like, maybe it's his ghost. Mike's like, it's not. Dustin says, I like, then what was in the water? And Mike's like, I don't know. All I know is Will's alive and he's out there somewhere. All we have to do is find him. And then he realizes they need a stronger radio signal. And Dustin suggests Mr. Clark's ham radio. But then they're like, hang on. How can we get l there?
Time for classic transformation montage, but with a twist. So we have the boys scrounging around. They find this blonde wig. They find this pink dress, which is the same dress that Elle pointed out in Nancy's picture from, like, the first or the second episode, I think it was.
She comes out having all been all decked out. The boys did a good job with her makeup. Actually can't even tell she's wearing it. She comes out and Mike's just got, like, hearts for eyes.
He's like, pretty. And then he's like, good, while Lucas, like, side eyes him from the background.
And then we have the cute moment where she goes to the mirror to look at her reflection and freaking mics in the backyard background. You're like, ew, go away. And then she says.
She says, pretty, Pretty. Good. And she, like, looks at herself and it's so stinking precious. So cute.
This was like everybody's Halloween costume the year that it came out.
[00:53:15] Speaker C: Or Joyce holding Christmas lights.
[00:53:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:19] Speaker C: 2016 was a fun year.
[00:53:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it was.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: Costume designer Kimberly Adams designed the garment based on the style of the Paulie Flinders brand that was popular in the 1970s. Typically, those dresses had elastic smocking across the chest, Peter Pan collars, and then the sleeves that gathered at the wrists.
I don't know if you guys ever wore a dress like that. I did. They were the itchiest things I've ever worn in my life.
And yeah, I feel for. Hopefully hers was a little bit better than mine was.
They said that the embroidery was all hand done on the dress. Dress and that they actually, like, they found that fabric at a fabric store, and they found something that was not quite pink, not quite peachy, and it felt like it was just sweet enough. And then with the twist of the Chucks and the stripy socks, that helped make it more 11.
[00:54:06] Speaker C: Yeah, the striking socks were a nice touch. I would say. This is so funny, because this is, this is how 12 or 13 year old boys would style a little girl. Yeah, this is exactly correct. So yeah.
[00:54:20] Speaker A: So then now we're in a lab and the elevator doors open. We're in the creepy hallway with the floating ash. We see three suited men enter the room with the crank thing, or whatever it's called. One of the men, his we find out his name is Shepard, is dressed to get attached to the crank and then it gets sent into the rift.
We think that he was probably named after the first person to venture or like the second person, I think, on the moon.
Alan Shepard was the first American astronaut to travel to space. It could also refer to the protagonist from the Silent Hill homecoming game, Alex Shepard, a young soldier who frequently cuts or tears his way through living portals and otherwise solid walls to make his way through a shadow dimension. We know that the duffers love Silent Hill.
So from behind the glass, similar to how we've seen him before with El, we have Brenner also suited up and it contrasts his experiments with El. He speaks over the intercom with like a warm, warm smile. He says, good luck son, which again, just completely contrasting Elle's papa and him being very cold and not talking to her.
And so then Shepard approaches the growling womb like opening with a male like ferocity, fingers it and then looks back to daddy for approval. That's how I read that scene. And then once he has the nod of approval, although they probably had countless briefings about this and signed dozens of documents and had this mapped out to last letter, he narrows his eyes, sets his jaw and bravely enters into the new frontier slash, slash rift with its ceiling up behind him. And Brenner looking on grimly the script calls it up, calls him a pilot and says that this is a leap of faith, a journey into the unknown.
So, okay, I don't know about you guys, but this whole scene read to me like, like the, the moon race, the space race trying to get onto the moon. This is the new frontier. This is our new thing that we're going to explore. And it felt very boys club, like, like in contrast obviously with what we've seen with L. So I have like a little thing here. It's not little, but it's long, but it is really interesting. So bear with me for a second. Okay, so for context, tensions are extremely high right now with the Soviet, Russia and the US under the radar. In real life, in real life, for context, when this show is supposed to be set, what's happening with the government right now?
But Also like in the show universe. Universe. So we're at the height of the Cold War. Russia's just shot down a Korean Airlines flight. Uncovering Stranger Things talks about how Reagan's deployment of nuclear missiles to Europe triggered the largest anti nuclear protest in American history. The summer before, in 1982. So this is after Reagan's run on a campaign that was all about cutting government spending. So they hypothesized that when something isn't popular or legal, it's easier to take it underground and out of the public eye, like what we kind of see right here.
So now we have the festering paranoia and fear that comes with the arms race and we start having a resurgence of 80s films treating people, but more specifically women, as things and objects, as weapons for science where men can play God. Because there's this need for control in this very out of control world.
Specifically as a way to circumvent the need for a woman's role in reproduction as well as treating their bodies as commodities for scientific exploration. The show has already introduced the idea that Brenner is play about us. Yeah, literally. And we've talked a lot about how this is all cycling back. We're seeing this happening now in like 2026, you know, so we have already seen like the show has introduced the idea that Brenner is possibly kidnapping these children. With the news clippings we saw last episode. The essay continues and says in stereotypical Frankenstein fashion, Brenner turns a blind eye to the domino effect of. Of a serious repercussion resulting from his mad science. Similarly, Brenner fails to recognize that the victims in this are not only the mothers who lose their children, but the children whose lives have been robbed from them at birth. Even worse is the idea that he could conceive of the consequences. And what ironically validates this kind of morally corrupt science in the Cold War period is that it is done for love of country. It is done to ensure America's democratic, and I say in quotes, moral superiority that it remains intact. So over on Buffy, we talked with the Initiative about how it's very male like to conquer and codify and it's female like to nurture and let things tell you who they are. So instead of this need to like name the thing that you've discovered in quote unquote, and in doing so claiming ownership, women are more likely to nurture it and let it say what it is. In the essay they talk about how horror is a male, more male dominated genre. And it's typically all about eyes and gazes. So you have masculine characters usually having. Having the assault of gaze and feminine characters having the reactive gaze, as feminine characters are more often than not the recipient of terror, horror, and therefore on the other receiving end. So this might get a little weird, but, like, hear me out, let me cook. So furthermore, the rift has. The rift has a cervix, like, opening. We have monstrous womb imagery. Like, we love my monstrous feminine.
[00:59:21] Speaker B: I know you've been waiting for this. I know you've been waiting.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: Here we go. No, let me. Let me explain.
[00:59:26] Speaker C: It's good, it's good.
[00:59:28] Speaker B: Blood and guts coming in to
[00:59:32] Speaker A: like,
[00:59:32] Speaker C: brother, here we go.
[00:59:34] Speaker B: I'm like, oh, we're back to Angel Season 3.
[00:59:37] Speaker A: More like Monstrous feminine. Here we go.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: Monstrous.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: But okay, so we have shepherd being attached to the cord with umbilical cord energy. Later on, he talks about seeing as he's being like, shot at or like whatever's happening with the monster, he goes, there's blood. There's blood everywhere. He talks about there being blood covering the whole place when. And then even later on in the episode, we have Will, Joyce's son, who she has a unique connection to because he's her baby, in this same place, which we know is based on this, based on the same membrane like substance, the growling monster, the smaller rift closing up in a similar manner, like Will is in a womb. And I'll just point out that Elle escapes from the lab and she appears almost to have been newly born, slash reborn, with her shaved head, ravenous appetite, stilted vocabulary and innocence. And we know based on this episode that she has a connection to the upside down, the womb.
So all that to say, this scene was fascinatingly shot to me, because whether it was intentional or not, and I think it is especially based on the next scene, it reads from a literal level, like men and mad scientists who are using women and little girls as weapons in this arms race and have discovered this new land, this frontier, this space. Hence the almost like astronaut like suits and they're waging an assault on it. And the upside down seems sentient and it seems unhappy with this assault. Assault. So in an episode where the women feel unheard and powerless, we have lots of themes of imagery of motherhood, the womb, feminine rage. We also have themes and imagery of the imperialism, abuse and assault of men against women.
So, period. I thought that was very interesting.
[01:01:12] Speaker C: Damn, these duffer brothers really thought this out, didn't they?
[01:01:17] Speaker A: There's me giving men way too much credit.
[01:01:21] Speaker B: Well, I feel like this is interesting just. Just you like, I don't I don't want to spoil.
[01:01:27] Speaker A: I know, right? There's a lot that's gonna happen later on that kind of ties in a little bit.
[01:01:31] Speaker C: It's a good setup for other things.
[01:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we'll go into it more as things are revealed and stuff. Especially, like, you know, I don't want to give spoilers, but, yes, the world. We'll talk about it more.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: Things and stuff will be revealed.
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Things and stuff will be stranger.
[01:01:47] Speaker B: Very strange.
[01:01:49] Speaker C: Exactly.
[01:01:50] Speaker A: So another thing that is interesting is the very next scene is in the school. And as we all know from Buffy, if the teacher's talking about something and reading something and, you know, telling you about something, it's probably relevant to the episode. So the teacher is reading an excerpt from Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Very, like, controversial book.
[01:02:11] Speaker C: So boring.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you read it?
[01:02:14] Speaker C: Yeah. To read it, it's boring.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: It's huge. It's a huge, like, critique of European colonialism in Africa while also examining themes of power dynamics, can't talk. Morality, and then specifically imperialism and racism.
So it. A lot of people talk about how the black people and the women are seen as objects, and that even for women, they're trying to maintain their purity and innocence. And it's also the inspiration for Coppola's Apocalypse now, which is really funny because it's referenced so much in Buffy, but now. Ish, Perhaps. Yeah, yeah.
But this passage is being read right after we see Brenner and the boys traverse the new Frontier, which feels intentional to have that bookmarked there. So, anyways, there's me giving them way too much credit. But anyways. All right, so Nancy gets called out of class to a meeting in the empty cafeteria with the deputies and her mom, where they ask her questions about the argument that she and Barb had.
What do you guys think of this, this next scene right here? Because I thought this was really interesting.
[01:03:15] Speaker C: Yeah, they're nosy, I think. Is it. Is it in this scene where they talk about the possibility that Barb ran away?
[01:03:25] Speaker A: Yes. They say her car's missing.
[01:03:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So I found it, and maybe not shocking, but very, very telling that the difference between the police reaction to two different child disappearances is. So it's like boy versus girl, older girl versus younger boy. Obviously, search parties and the awareness and the news were all over Will's disappearance. But Barb's disappearance, no. She probably ran away. Were you guys drinking? Right. Were you at a party? Did you upset her?
Is that why she left?
[01:04:03] Speaker A: Was she jealous? Was she jealous?
[01:04:05] Speaker C: Was she a jealous person? Is that why she would run away? Like, we're obviously not going to bother giving this a bigger deal.
[01:04:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:13] Speaker C: For whatever reason.
So I think that's what stood out to me in this scene.
[01:04:17] Speaker B: It's almost like they're.
If you think about how Joyce is reacting to, like, if you compare Jonathan, how he's being treated by Joyce voice and how the police is dealing with Barb's whole thing, like, it just feels like the show is trying to say that teenagers are, like, not as important.
Like, they're not as.
I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Do you guys know what I'm trying to say?
[01:04:44] Speaker A: Like, maybe they're more invisible.
[01:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, teenagers are more like. Like they're, they're not as pure, they're not as, like, you know, they're, they're more rebellious. So we're not going to worry about what they're doing. Like, Barb is missing. She must have ran away. Jonathan is going to be taking care of everything because Joyce is losing her mind. And like, when I, when I was thinking about how would Joyce react if it was Jonathan that was missing and Will was there, like, immediately, it's like, oh, she wouldn't be as flustered. Like, we joked about it, but I just, I feel like in this show, like, the kids are very much like, you know, there's children being experimented on as far as we know, or whatever, and it's horrific. But it feels like, you know, there's the teenagers, the children and then the adults. But it feels like the teenagers are the ones that are kind of being brushed aside. And I think that's a commentary on society also. Like, that's how society kind of views teenagers sometimes. Like, maybe they're rebellious.
They're, you know, they're, they're bad news, they do bad things. You know, like they have hormones and they're up to no good. Like, maybe that kind of what it
[01:05:56] Speaker C: feels like when you turn 15, you're an adult now and that's like your own problem.
[01:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I find it interesting because it's like, like, clearly, Barb, just like Nancy, are from like a middle class, at least, if not upper middle class. They obviously have nice houses. Barb had a car.
They're really well behaved girls too. Like, obviously parents are involved, whereas Will and Joyce and Jonathan, the Byers are not. They're lower class. Right. Single, working mom, house is falling apart.
Can't be bringing in that much money, yet they still take his disappearance. Like, Hopper, does he even know Barb's missing? Like, he's not even on the case as the chief of this small little town.
[01:06:42] Speaker A: They bring it up to him. I think he's like, oh, whatever. And he's like, oh, yeah, that. That. Like, he's just out of it, you know?
[01:06:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:06:50] Speaker B: I think it's just interesting.
[01:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think there's probably something to that. Leia, if you're so concerned about the nuclear family and keeping everybody in their space, adolescents, Teenagers are. Who are pushing the boundaries are going to be a threat to that system.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I think that's what I was trying to say, because we've been talking a lot about, like, the nuclear family and stuff like that, and teenagers are, like, the anthesis of, like, they are the opposite of that because they, you know, they're coming into their teenagehood and, like, they're figuring out who they are and what they're questioning and things inherently.
[01:07:23] Speaker A: The system. Exactly. Set up. Yeah, totally.
[01:07:25] Speaker B: Exactly. So maybe it's trying to make a commentary on the fact that, like, the teenagers are ones that we should be weary of.
[01:07:32] Speaker C: Like, they're Nancy, not Barb. Barb was a good girl.
[01:07:36] Speaker B: Poor Barb. Our rip Barb.
[01:07:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:07:40] Speaker A: Yeah. But Nancy's over there going, no one's taking my concerns seriously. And also the fact that I know my friend. And, like. Like, they say basically the same thing that Steve's been saying where, like, oh, maybe she skipped a day of school. Maybe she, you know, playing hooky. And she's over there going, I know my friend. Why does. No. Why is everyone looking at this, assuming that giving Sunnydale.
[01:07:59] Speaker B: Giving Sunnydale law enforcement, it's giving Principal Snyder giving.
[01:08:05] Speaker C: No. It's so true. Yeah. But that's the takeaway from here. It's just like, number one, like, Nancy's not being believed.
[01:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:08:11] Speaker C: But number two, like, justice for Box Barb. No. Like, does no one care about Barb? She clearly not a skipper.
[01:08:16] Speaker B: Barb. She wasn't drinking.
[01:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah. She's a good kid. And, like, her car is missing, too. That's weird.
[01:08:23] Speaker B: Steph, how do you feel about the phenomenon of justice for Barb? Justice for Barb movement?
[01:08:29] Speaker C: Like, online.
[01:08:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:08:31] Speaker B: Like.
[01:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:08:31] Speaker C: Hashtags from, like, 10 years ago.
[01:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Still reach back into the recesses of your mind.
[01:08:39] Speaker C: Poor Barb.
There are other characters down the line that I cared more for once they meet their end. Minor spoiler. Barb was the first. And everyone remembers their first. Right.
I think the tragic tale of Barb is That.
And I was just telling Leia this when we were watching the episode. I was like, I was Barb. You know what I mean?
Like, obviously an 20, like a 2006 Asian version of Barb. But, like, I would have been Barb in that situation. I'd been like, are you sure you want me to leave? Like, I think I would have stayed as well and waited for my friend.
I would have been really weary about going to these popular kids houses. Like, I think, are they just making fun of us? Like, I would have. I would have been where Barb is in terms of her choices.
So I can relate to Barb and that. In that. In that regard, I understand. I think a lot of people could. And that's why the.
[01:09:37] Speaker B: I think you get ready to think about that.
Like, when we first started, like, the last few episodes, that it was. People were saying that they. They see themselves in Barb and that's
[01:09:48] Speaker A: why, or they know a Barb attached
[01:09:50] Speaker C: to her, or they're close because Barb was a good person. Barb was a good friend at the end of the day. And that's why Nancy's gonna carry this guilt for the rest of her Life, because Barb 100% was on. Nancy's was the one looking out for Nancy. Maybe she wasn't giving Nancy enough space in her. They're young, right? Maybe she was not so supportive of Nancy exploring the popular girl side of her that was opening up to her. Barb was also afraid that her friend was. She's gonna lose her friend to the tides of popularity in school. That's a real feeling, you know? So I think of all the stranger things in this show and all the supernatural stuff happening around here. Here, and all the. The. The tropes of characters that you're going to be seeing in the show that then get switched, right? They get. They get twisted into something different. And that's why the show's so good.
Barb never gets that chance. She stays the trope. She stays the good best friend who didn't deserve the end that she got. She was doing the right thing. She was being a good friend, and
[01:10:56] Speaker B: she got taken from that sign me up for the justice for Barb movement.
[01:11:00] Speaker A: Yeah, Leia's on that side. Well, that's what we were talking about, I think, last episode or the episode before Leia, when I was talking about queer characters in Stranger Things. And that's not just characters who are gay. It's characters who are outside the dorm. And Barb is queer coded in the sense that she's outside of the dorm. She's not the. The typical popular kid. And a lot of queer characters. That's why there's the ghost trope in queer media.
You have a lot of ghostly metaphors in there because it's a life unfulfilled, a life cut short, a life that didn't reach its full potential. And Barb reaches a lot of that.
[01:11:37] Speaker C: Yeah. And let's not forget, like, she doesn't get a hero's death. Or, you know, do we know she's dead yet? But, like, she doesn't get taken like
[01:11:45] Speaker A: a hero doubling down over here, like, later on.
[01:11:50] Speaker C: Later on. Again, like my minor spoiler. But, like, other characters are gonna die in the show. Okay, just heads up.
[01:11:57] Speaker A: Sorry. Don't tell Leia.
[01:11:58] Speaker B: Nobody else is gonna die. Don't tell me that.
[01:12:00] Speaker C: They might.
And a lot of them get a hero's out.
[01:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:12:06] Speaker C: And our sweet, sweet Barb doesn't. In your traditional hero sense, do I think she's a hero for looking out for her friend? Absolutely. But in the grand universe, she get her big moment. Yeah, she just gets. She just gets taken, you know, she just gets. She. She unfortunately was in the wrong place the wrong time, and that is always going to be sad. She's a victim. And I understand why people are victimizing her. I understand why she's like the movement of, like, justice for Barb.
[01:12:35] Speaker B: Justice for Barb.
[01:12:36] Speaker C: Because truly, truly justice for Barb.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: But, hey, Barb is never forgotten. She always haunts. She will always haunt Nancy's narrative.
[01:12:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:12:44] Speaker C: She came back for Riverdale not too long after she did.
[01:12:48] Speaker A: Yeah. She was on Riverdale. Yeah.
[01:12:51] Speaker C: Something.
[01:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah. She got her own movie, too. On Netflix.
[01:12:54] Speaker B: Damn good for Barb.
[01:12:57] Speaker C: Happy endings all around.
[01:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah, well, not for this. Barb, but not, you know, Barb, but not Barb. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:13:05] Speaker A: Okay, so Nancy is full on lying with her whole chest now and tells the deputies that her and Steve are. Yes. And it's so interesting watching this now as an adult and with a deeper perspective, because early on I was like, why is she lying to the deputies? She's making this harder. She's making this worse. I was kind of on, like, Karen's side. And Karen's getting increasingly upset because she's like, you know, she knows what. What happened. She's not stupid. She's known since Nancy wore the sweatshirt on the stairs. And I think she's also upset here because Nancy's lying to police officers in that series. Serious. But I really sympathized with Nancy. This particular walk, like Walk through and watch because I get the sense that these officers are low key, judging her for sleeping with Steve and also thinking that she's being emotional and overreactive. Like why would she tell them the whole truth? She's just going to be met with some more shame. And that's not going to help Barb either. And I think again, like I said, I think on a meta level, it's interesting to note that it's possible that the ship, the show is subtly hinting at a correlation between Nancy's loss of credibility and her loss of virginity. Like socially, she's now more of an outsider than she's ever been before. Which, which is why.
Which is why, well coiffed and perfectly presenting, Karen is initially more concerned with Nancy having had sex and lying to the officers than with believing her daughter and finding Barb. Which is the heart of Nancy's frustrations with Karen in this next scene, I think, and why she doesn't really feel like anyone's listening to her because in Nancy's mind she's to going, going. You're all more concerned with maintaining the status quo. And with appearances, Steve, Karen, the officers, this is the final push for Nancy to start aligning with the non normative crowd. And that's what's the rift between her and her mom. You know, Leia's like, it's about time. Let's go.
All right. Back at the station, Hopper's interviewing, interviewing the coroner, Gary, about the troopers who brought in Will, clearly suspicious about the fact that the state has been taking over this case. Case rattled by Joyce's claims that the body isn't Will, Gary thinks it's weird, says there were state, six state guys that brought in Will. And then as he's talking, Hopper looks at the tv, sees that the state trooper, David o' Bannon is giving his interview about how he found Will. And he's going, hang on. They're controlling the information on all ends. And at this point he's just out full on suspicious. So we get to the streets. The boys and l are riding the their bikes through town to go to school. Elle's head's on a swivel. She's like, I've never seen all this stuff. So many people in so many places. Like for the first time ever, they enter the school and then they hear an announcement about the assembly in the gym to honor Will. And then the door to the audiovisual room is locked. And just as Dustin asks elf she can open it with her powers, Mr. Clark appears around the Corner and tells them that the assembly is about to start. And they're like, yeah, we're just so, so sad.
And they're like, we need some alone time to cry.
And the script says that Mr. Clark was actually just emerging from another classroom where he'd been crying, which I thought was so cute.
[01:16:04] Speaker B: He's so sweet.
[01:16:05] Speaker A: Which is why he believes their BS right here. Because he's like, I get it. I too need to cry. I'm like, positive men right here.
So he's like, let's just do this for a while. And tosses the key keys to the radio room to Mike and is like, you guys can do this for the rest of the day after you finish. He notices Elle, asks her name, and they're trying to, like, cover. They're like, eleanor, she's from Sweden. And he's like, yeah, super suspicious and all that stuff. But then they end up going to the gym. And the speaker's like, we all need to come together. And bang, the door opens. Dustin's like, walking in. Every head swivels in their direction. Dustin goes apart and tries to, like, back out of the room. Lucas is like, no, we're doing this. Pushes him in.
So then at the Wheeler house, we have this scene. I thought this was the. One of the most interesting scenes of the episode for me. So Nancy and Karen are back home. Karen is big mad. And they're like, continuing this argument, presumably from in the car. And Karen accuses Nancy of lying to the police. Nancy says she didn't lie. And Karen yells, how naive do you think I am? You and Steve were just talking. Nancy whirls around right now, right next to the stairs, might I add. And it's like, we slept together. Is that what you want to know? It doesn't matter. Karen responds with, it does matter. Nancy interrupts, saying, no, it's all.
Which is a very particular way of describing the situation. Everyone take notes of that term because it's going to come back up again. Nancy gets into Leia's like, all right. Nancy gets into Karen's face, yelling that it has nothing to do with Barb. And she's missing and something terrible happened to her, and I know it, and no one is listening to me. So Steve, Tommy, Carol, officers, now her own mom. She turns to go. Karen grabs her arm, saying, sweetie, I'm listening. And Nancy yells, no, you're not. Runs up the stairs yelling, just leave me alone. With Karen left at the bottom of the stairs again.
[01:17:52] Speaker C: Poor Karen.
[01:17:54] Speaker B: Karen's trying.
[01:17:56] Speaker C: Poor Karen. Well, she's so solidified in the normal world.
[01:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:18:00] Speaker C: This wouldn't. It would never occur to her to do what Joyce is doing or to the. You know, what the boy or her son's doing with his friends. She's. She's so.
She's such a mom.
[01:18:12] Speaker B: And she hasn't experienced any weird stuff?
[01:18:16] Speaker A: Of course not.
[01:18:17] Speaker C: She's.
[01:18:17] Speaker B: She's learning all this information secondhand. Like she's just seeing it through her kids's eyes. Like she's not.
[01:18:24] Speaker C: I felt maybe because I'm a mom, obviously not to a teenager, but it's interesting because it's like a three year old.
[01:18:29] Speaker A: It's the same thing.
[01:18:30] Speaker C: It's same thing.
[01:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:18:32] Speaker C: Same, same, same energy, to be honest. Yeah.
But she just, she can't, she can't voice as well as Nancy can.
But the attitude is there and I, I think it's. It's hard for Karen and I feel for Karen because I think this is when she's truly noticing that disconnect between her and her daughter.
And how like when she says, you can talk to me, like she, she begging, you can talk to me. And Nancy's like, why would I? You don't believe me?
So there's fault on both ends here. I think Nancy could potentially be a little bit more understanding of where her mom. Mom is coming from in her life. But that's not what 16 year olds do right at the same time. Like Karen, Karen, like your daughter, her friend is missing and you know, I think you're more concerned that she's sleeping with her boyfriend or a guy, which again, very 80s. Like sure. Like I'm sure that would per her interest. But these moms in this episode are just not seeing their teenage years for who they really are or what they're actually needing. And that's a problem.
[01:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah, this, visually, this, this scene is really interesting because the camera is again at a lower angle which conveys vulnerability and powerlessness. So the angle of the camera is almost at eyeline with the counter and the initial shot of the girls from between the counter and the cabinets and then moves with them into the hallway. It's actually a oner. This entire sequence doesn't break until you get to Karen. Karen's face at the very end. It's all one long continuous shot. And so the, the camera moves between the counters, the cabinets moves with them into the hallway as Karen slams her purse down. It all feels very crowded and cramped. It also sets up as a very domestic and feminine scene with it starting in the kitchen and then we end the scene with Karen between the spindles on the stairs. Like she feels stuck and hopeless and helpless too. Like it feels like we're in Nancy's shoes with the camera following Karen as she's berating Nancy. It almost feels like we're being yelled at. And then we only see Nancy. Nancy's face, not Karen's, when she's yelling at Karen. Normally there would be a close up shot of Karen's reactions to Nancy telling her that no one is listening to her. But we don't get that. The camera only stays on Nancy and we don't see Karen's face fully until the very end when Nancy is gone. But we also feel for Karen because we get that extra shot of her at the very end of the scene. And we're also primed to feel our helplessness from the initial scene with her and Ted. So it's just very interesting how out. I just loved how normally, like, the other shots with Nancy and Karen have been from a different angle coming in from the front door, and this one's from the side. And so it feels like a much more intimate and personal scene and a more feminine one. Again in the more feminine, quote unquote, feminine space of the house. So I thought it was very, very interesting.
And then again, in Nancy's room, the angle is very low as she comes into her room and plops on her bed. She storms in. And then, remember, she has the photos of Barb that Jonathan took in her school bag. Bag. And then she puts together all the ripped pieces, noticing that Barb's, you know, in the corner of the dining. The diving board. And then sees a faint outline of something, which is hilarious because she could have totally seen it without assembling the whole thing, but whatever.
[01:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:21:44] Speaker A: It's like the pieces are so big. And one piece, you're looking at the same piece that she was looking at before she, like, assembled it, but.
[01:21:51] Speaker B: And we couldn't even see what it was. Steph and I were like, what?
[01:21:54] Speaker A: I couldn't see either. I was like, how did you see that girl?
We're back in the lab and it's been a while. Apparently Brenner asked the comms people to try and find Shepard. This is where, like, we hear something going after shepherd and the cord is moving around a lot. They end up pulling it in and it's just all bloody. Like, Shepard is gone. We're like, oh, well, the monster got him. He got eaten.
Okay. So sad.
[01:22:20] Speaker C: Tampon coming out of that.
[01:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you.
[01:22:22] Speaker C: Thank you.
[01:22:23] Speaker A: Yes. Right, right. It's IUD is what it is.
[01:22:28] Speaker B: Sarah, you may be on to.
[01:22:31] Speaker A: Thank you, Leia. I actually do think I am. I'm so glad you finally figured it out. It just takes Steph to come in there and be like, tampon. Leia's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:22:40] Speaker C: Simplify your vision.
[01:22:47] Speaker A: All right. So then we're at the school assembly. The boys and Al are still sitting in the. In the bleachers. And then Mike notices the bullies. Troy and James mocking Will.
And Elle notices as well. Quietly observes mouth breather. After the assembly, Mike approaches Troy in the middle of the gym as everyone's leaving and is like, you think this is funny? I saw you guys laughing over there. I think that was a messed up thing to do. I think this moment is supposed to contrast the altercation from the day before when they called Will queer and tripped Mike. And then in the episode, like, in the episode prior, the script had talked about Mike trying to find the courage to confront the boys and to physically accost them, saying, but not today. He doesn't find the courage today. And in the script, it's heavily implied that El's presence is what gives Mike courage. Now he looks back at her several times and then gets the courage to confront them and to shove.
[01:23:35] Speaker B: Ah, young Troy.
[01:23:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:23:37] Speaker C: Woo.
[01:23:38] Speaker A: Violence.
[01:23:40] Speaker C: Okay, but like, if I had El find me, I also would pick the first.
[01:23:43] Speaker A: Right, Right, Exactly.
So then he ends up pushing Troy down. He tries to get up and rush at him, but then frees it is. And then we see Mike's confused face. Everyone's confused. I love how this is shot. We have L out of focus behind him and her concentrating power pose. And then Troy pees himself. Everyone laughs. Mike clues into what's happening. Makes eye contact with Elle. She kind of like smiles at him and then just swipes away the blood and walks away. I was like, so good.
[01:24:11] Speaker B: How did he. How did she make him pee?
[01:24:14] Speaker A: She squeezed his tiny bladder with her. With her mind.
[01:24:18] Speaker B: Oh, my.
[01:24:19] Speaker C: She gotta be careful. Eh?
[01:24:20] Speaker A: That's pretty.
[01:24:21] Speaker B: But, like, did she, like, pull the pee out of him? Like, how she would have, like.
[01:24:26] Speaker C: Yeah, she would have either squeezed bladder or, like, affected his urinary gland or something, which is, like I said, precision. That's like surgical level of concentration there. Like, if she wasn't, he just with an aneurysm.
[01:24:40] Speaker A: She's like, oops.
[01:24:42] Speaker C: Punches a hole through his.
[01:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah, biopsy.
[01:24:47] Speaker C: Have you seen that debate? It's like, really funny. It's like, you know Matilda from the 90s. So it was Matilda versus 11 and who like powers compared to each other. Who would win? And the person who was doing it was like, listen, eleven's very powerful and it's a very good show, but have you seen Matilda's concentration?
She just uses her fingers.
[01:25:16] Speaker B: Finger.
[01:25:16] Speaker C: And, like, books are flying and, like, Elle, like, bleeds from her nose when she turns the radio on.
[01:25:21] Speaker A: It seems strenuous for L.
Yeah.
[01:25:25] Speaker C: Does it unmatched, like. Like, precision and.
[01:25:29] Speaker B: And that's her as a kid. Imagine how more. How much more powerful she'd be. Like a teenager.
[01:25:36] Speaker C: It was a great comparison. I was like, that's funny.
[01:25:40] Speaker A: So a teacher gets involved, the boys take off. Even Troy's friend. Well, I say friend, but his frenemy, James Aband.
Yeah. He's standing in a puddle of pee.
[01:25:50] Speaker C: Wouldn't you? How embarrassing.
[01:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah, literally. Literally, that would be embarrassing.
[01:25:55] Speaker C: It's not my friend.
[01:25:56] Speaker A: A boy in the 80s, too.
[01:25:58] Speaker C: But Lei and I were talking. We're like. We're saying this was perfect because it's one thing to, like, get beaten up and then you still have your manhood as. As men do, you know, but doing something like making him pee his pants.
[01:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Now that is emasculation.
Yes.
[01:26:13] Speaker C: And emasculating. And. And that. That is something no one will ever forget.
[01:26:18] Speaker B: Social destruction.
[01:26:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:26:20] Speaker A: It's really clever, too, because only Troy knows that it wasn't him doing it. Everyone, like, there's plausible deniability. Everybody looks at that and goes, well, Troy, you clearly peed yourself. And Troy's going, I did not intentionally do that. So he knows Mike did something.
[01:26:37] Speaker C: Yes. Never go for the pain when you can go for the humiliation.
Well done. Well done.
[01:26:43] Speaker B: Can. Telekinetic piece to Stephanie.
[01:26:46] Speaker A: Stephanie.
So in the funeral home, Jonathan's staring blankly at a coffin while the salesperson talks about logistics. I was like, oh, Buffy all over again.
[01:26:57] Speaker B: I know what the hell it's like, forever.
[01:27:00] Speaker A: He notices Nancy comes in, and then he goes over and she's like, hey, your mom said you'd be here.
[01:27:07] Speaker C: Yeah, what the hell?
[01:27:09] Speaker B: Great timing.
[01:27:10] Speaker C: N.
I laughed.
[01:27:12] Speaker B: We were.
[01:27:13] Speaker C: When we were watching this, because we were literally like, is now the time? Like, like, couldn't you wait outside for him to finish?
[01:27:20] Speaker A: But also the fact that Joyce was like, yeah, he's probably just picking out coffins. Good luck. Like.
[01:27:24] Speaker B: Like Joyce.
[01:27:25] Speaker C: Hello, Joyce.
[01:27:26] Speaker B: Creep the robe.
[01:27:28] Speaker C: Go. Go spend time. Go. Yeah, go keep him company during that.
[01:27:31] Speaker A: At the very least, feed the delusion. So he. He's like, he has someone to grieve with.
[01:27:35] Speaker B: No, she has to watch the Lights, guys.
[01:27:37] Speaker A: Oh, obviously. Obviously, Joyce doesn't actually think Will's dead, you know, But Jonathan does, and he's in pain. Like, come on, girl. Anyway, whatever. She could be doing more to reassure Jonathan to be there for him.
He's like, hey, I need help.
[01:27:53] Speaker B: I need your help.
[01:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:27:55] Speaker B: Everybody's always asking this kid for help. Nobody's ever asking, hey, Jonathan, do you need any help?
[01:28:01] Speaker C: Justice for Jonathan. Not one person has asked. Ask Jonathan what he needs help with right now, which is a lot.
[01:28:07] Speaker B: Always. It's always, hey, Jonathan, I need. And it's, do you need someone else?
[01:28:14] Speaker A: Good enough.
[01:28:15] Speaker C: I need someone else to plan this funeral. I need a new camera. I need money for the funeral. I need money for college. There's a lot of things that Jonathan needs.
[01:28:22] Speaker B: I need a hug. So many.
[01:28:23] Speaker C: How about that? Literally. Let's start with a hug.
[01:28:27] Speaker A: Yeah. The closest to human contact and connection he's got gotten was Hopper's, like, shoulder pat earlier on. That's the closest. It said himself at the beginning.
Stop reminding me. It's so sad. Oh, our.
[01:28:41] Speaker C: Our poor little flavorless.
[01:28:43] Speaker A: Our poor, poor little paper.
[01:28:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:28:47] Speaker B: By the sea.
[01:28:49] Speaker A: Timothy. Timothy Chalamet. Over here.
All right, so Jonathan doesn't really answer. Nancy asks to talk, and then we see them in the hallway. She shows in the picture. He isn't sure what the shadow is, says it's weird, says that he didn't see anyone or anything out there, that Barb just vanished. Nancy catches him up with what the cops think and then says that she saw something weird at Steve's, that she doesn't know what it was, that maybe it was a man or something. This clearly triggers the memory of Joyce talking about the monster for Jonathan. But Nancy takes his silence as another person not believing her. So as she turns to go, he quickly asks what it looks like. Nancy says she isn't sure and starts to say that it was almost like it didn't have a face. But Jonathan answers her sentence, and she's like, how did you know that? And finally, we have characters connecting.
[01:29:35] Speaker B: Finally.
[01:29:36] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
Satisfying.
[01:29:40] Speaker C: Feels good.
[01:29:41] Speaker A: All right. Speaking of satisfying, in a hideaway bar, Hopper ends up misleading and baiting the guy that he saw on television, the state trooper who found Will's body into thinking that he's out celebrating his daughter's winning.
The blue bracelet on his wrist is extremely prominent the entire time, again reminding us that his daughter is, in fact, dead. I love how we don't know Hopper's plan, but we know he's lying. It's pretty Great. Hopper sets him up, baits him, pumps him for information, proves this guy's lying. Then we see him beating him up out in the.
[01:30:10] Speaker C: So hot.
[01:30:10] Speaker A: In the alleyway. Yes.
[01:30:14] Speaker C: He.
[01:30:14] Speaker A: The guy's like, I don't know anything, except someone told me to call the body in, but not to let anything, anyone get close to the body.
The show emphasizes Hopper's bloody and swollen knuckles because this ain't the only man he's going to be beating up this episode. Hopper asks him who he works for. He sees David look at the parked car behind him, realizes they're being watched, and the guy takes off and is like, you're gonna get us both killed. And Hopper goes towards the car, but it's gone. So then at the buyer's house, Joy turns on. Should I stare? Should I go? He's walking around the house looking. Come on, talk to me. It's very. It's giving. What's the girl from the. The movie we all watched together, where she goes, julie James, waiting for.
[01:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what you did last summer.
[01:30:56] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. Yes, yes.
I love it when we. There's a movie that we both have seen, though, like, you get my references because typically it's me just screaming into the void.
[01:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
We really don't watch the same type of movies.
[01:31:08] Speaker A: We don't at all.
Weirdly enough. This is the only thing we have opposite line on when it's. It comes to taste. Yeah. That's why it's hard to find shows for us.
[01:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:31:19] Speaker A: Anyway. All right. In the radio room, Elle and the boys get all situated. Mike confidently says that. Ls gonna find Will. He turns on the radio. L closes her eyes, gets in the zone. And then we have another flashback. She's at the table with the cables on her head again, only this time, Brenner's in the room with her, pouring a glass of water and talking to her. He places the drink on the table in front of her, and Elle just looks traumatized because, mind you, the last time we saw her in a flashback, it was. She killed a couple of people.
She's got her knees pulled up to her chin. She doesn't acknowledge or respond as he asks if she's listening. He tells her that he needs to find the man in the picture before her. The script says this is text Test Subject 1, so I'm assuming this is after the incident in the hallway. 11 quietly whispers, hurt him, my baby soldier. Yeah. Brer's like, no, I just want you to listen to him and repeat his Words back. He's like, just like they used to do with those old nursery rhymes. Which gives us another clue that she's been there a really long time, since she was little.
And then at those last words, it's so interesting, he puts his hand on top of 11's hands that are gripping her knees, and that's what snaps her out of it. Her eyes instantly go to his hand and then to him. And it's so manipulative.
Each time he gives her attention, but especially physically, she soaks it up like this poor, thirsty little sponge. And it's very calculated and sad.
So he asks her if she thinks she can do that for him. And then without taking her eyes off of him, she nods. And then she concentrates. And then now we're in Eleven's mind. As she seems to be going down the hallway of the lab, we hear a man over the intercom say, begin. I think it's Papa who says that. And then another man reciting random words like a code in an enclosed room in the same lab. Lab. 11 is still concentrating, and then Papa tells her to repeat the words when the lights all go out. And suddenly the man's words are being broadcast on the intercom system. And it's a really cool sequence.
Back in present day. We're in the audio room, 11's in front of the radio. And then Mike's like, she's doing it. She's fighting him. And Lucas is like, calm down. She's just closing her eyes. But then the light bulb bursts. And then we hear a loud rhythmic banging sound over the radio. And so then we're. We get switches back and forth from the buyer's house to the radio room, where Joyce hears a banging, switches off the music and hears Will calling for her. I couldn't believe this wasn't the end of the episode. Like, it keeps going after this. And so the boys on the radio hear Will calling for Joyce, and it. Dustin and Lucas are in shock. Joyce frantically runs outside to see if Will's on the outside of the wall, but there's no one there. So she goes back in, bangs back, starts to tear down the wallpaper. In the RA room, the boys are yelling and calling for Will, but he can't hear them. Lucas is like, what's going on? Mike doesn't know. In the Byers, Joyce has now torn the wallpaper to reveal the red membrane, like covering that looks exactly like the entrance to the rift in the lab. It's semi translucent and both Joyce and Will can just faintly see each Other through it. And their voices sound faint and echoey, as if far away.
[01:34:18] Speaker C: It's the hymen.
[01:34:20] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Thank you.
[01:34:21] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:34:22] Speaker A: Steph is just like, we're gonna goes steamroll this entire metaphor that Sarah has completely just pulled out of her butt.
[01:34:31] Speaker C: I'm just helping, making it real. Like, this is how I'm seeing you.
[01:34:35] Speaker A: Really?
[01:34:36] Speaker C: Thank you.
[01:34:36] Speaker A: Keep going.
You're giving everyone a visual. It's great.
So Joyce is just crying with relief. She's like, like, vindicated. I saw my son. He's there. We hear the monster growling. Will yells his mom to his mom. It's coming.
Joyce asks him where he is, how to get to him. In the radio room, the boys. It's just so well done. The boys are listening in horror as all they can hear is their friend crying, begging for his mom, saying that where he's at, it's like home, but it's so dark and empty and cold. Elle now has blood dripping from her nose. She seems to be getting tired. Joyce frantically tells Will that she will get to him, that she swears she will, but right now she needs him to hide. This part breaks my heart. Heart. We see the rift is closing up. They only have seconds of contact, and you could tell she wants so badly to stay with him. But we hear the monster growling. Will's begging Joyce, and she's like, you have to run now. I will find you. And then he takes off just as the rift closes up and it's replaced by the side of the house. In the audio room, the radio is on fire. The smoke detectors are going off. The lights turn back on. Dustin gets the extinguisher. Eleven's on the verge of passing out, clearly spent. And then Joyce grabs the ax and begins to chop away at the wall. Wall. And then Mike and the boys get Elle out of there. They, like, as everyone's, like, evacuating. They push her out on, like a little cart or something out the side entrance. And Joyce makes it through the wall only to find daylight. And there's no Will. And it's just a really good sequence.
[01:36:08] Speaker C: Excellent scene. Yeah. So good.
[01:36:11] Speaker B: I love scene where they're cutting between, like, it reminds me of.
Sorry, sorry.
[01:36:19] Speaker C: Go ahead, Steph.
[01:36:21] Speaker A: She blanked.
[01:36:22] Speaker B: What were you saying?
[01:36:23] Speaker A: I blanked.
[01:36:24] Speaker C: Oh, you blanked. Okay. I was like, yeah, go on.
[01:36:27] Speaker B: It reminds me of.
[01:36:28] Speaker C: It reminds me of things, Hyman. Like, things. I, I.
Now I'm forgetting my point.
[01:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I like Steph completely forgotten at this point.
[01:36:39] Speaker C: No, I think what I like so much about it is, is that Divide. So, like, the visual of Will, wherever he is behind the wall and his mom is right there.
[01:36:53] Speaker A: Their hands so close.
[01:36:54] Speaker C: They're so. Like, she's talking to him. Yeah, she sees him.
[01:36:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:36:59] Speaker C: Like, he's. He's obviously blurry because there's a membrane, as you said, like, between them.
But. But that is the saddest thing. But it's also so exciting and validating for Joy Choice to be like, no, like, here. Like, you're here. I will find you. Run and hide. Like, she's being a mom. She's taking care of him, but she's like, I can't do that right now. I can't get you right now. I will, though.
And. Oh, like. And, like, yeah.
Winona Ryder selling that. So.
[01:37:29] Speaker A: So well, good.
[01:37:31] Speaker C: And even the boys. The boys listening in and. And, like, taking in what's happening here is also super important. Important and. And moving.
I love it. I thought this was. This is really well done.
[01:37:43] Speaker B: I also think it's.
We've been getting hints, like, we've been coming back to the house. Like, 11 led the boys back to the house.
[01:37:51] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:37:52] Speaker B: Saying this is where Will is. So, like, we're getting more evidence that Will is here. Like, he's. He's literally, like, in the same place that they. That she.
[01:38:02] Speaker C: He is.
[01:38:03] Speaker B: He's right here. It's just. We don't know where he is, but now it's like, you could see him. So it's. It's interesting. Like, they've been leading up to this. Right.
And now we actually know that he's there.
[01:38:14] Speaker A: Yeah. We have confirmation he's alive, that he's also in this place. And we know there's a way to get there, but it's in the lab. And there seems to be these little rifts that pop up specifically in the buyer's house because we've seen the monster and stuff. But now it's a. Okay, how do we get there? There? And different people have different bits of information too, so everybody needs to get together.
[01:38:34] Speaker B: Barb got there. Kind of like her.
We can assume it's the same place because she ended up somewhere that was just like Steve's house, but different.
[01:38:44] Speaker A: The monster seems to be the linchpin. Like, it's the thing that is connecting and getting people there. Yeah. But I mean, just the way that they built up this, like, the way that they've given us the information is also really brilliant. Like, this moment where they show. Show how Elle is able to use her mind to transmit into the radio is the, like, We've kind of gotten like clues about it, but this is like the first time. And then they're showing how she's doing it with. And then why the boys are able to hear Will. Why the boys are able to hear Will and Joyce talking to each other.
And then. And then that ramping up into the sequence that we now. We now see. It's just a really great math. It's a master class intention. Honestly, it's really. And it's really fun to watch.
[01:39:27] Speaker B: And I think it's for 11. I really like how they keep cutting back to like flashbacks of her basically. Like Papa's making her do these things obviously as a test to see what she can do and like training her to do stuff. And obviously these are really traumatic moments for her as we can see in present time. But I also love that she's now using her powers to help her friends. Like these people that she's met that she's like formed a connection with and she's trying to help them. And it's not the same manipulative and like evil type of thing she had with Papa. Like, this is something that's positive in her life. Like this is something that's humanizing her.
And I think it's interesting that she's using her powers to help her human friends now.
[01:40:16] Speaker A: Like her.
[01:40:16] Speaker B: Her like human, you know, Damien, they're
[01:40:19] Speaker C: making her feel human because look at.
[01:40:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:40:22] Speaker C: Yes, it's a stereotypical girl costume, you know, like she doesn't have to have long, beautiful blonde hair to be a woman, but they're making her feel like one of us. One of us.
She's never had friends before. She's never had community before. And I think community is this huge theme, if not this episode, perhaps the whole season, where these characters start finding their community and start working together and embracing the stranger things that are happening. That's when things are.
[01:40:51] Speaker A: Are moving.
[01:40:52] Speaker C: That's when they find Will together, the four of them.
[01:40:56] Speaker A: Well, that's why trust is so important. She's learning what friendship and loyalty and community looks like. And we're. We're getting that contrasted with what she has thought it was her entire life, how, how affection and trust and all that stuff was used against her. Essentially. She's always seemed to be someone who tried to trusts, but it's never been reciprocated back.
[01:41:16] Speaker B: And it just like makes you wonder what she like, does she view herself as, I don't know, like a weapon? A weapon versus now. Like, is that changing for her? She's forging Friendships and these things, these powers that she thought, like, made her different. Like, they're helping her to make friends now. So I think that's like really beautiful, like a coming of age type of thing.
[01:41:40] Speaker C: And the same goes for Nancy and Jonathan. Right. Like, these are people who are finding community and the fact that they are breaking away from the norm, like, in society, you could say. But also just in general, they're embracing the supernatural stuff that's happening around them. They're not ignoring it. They're not pretending it's not happening.
At least, sorry, Jonathan's about to start doing that. Nancy has already on that train. But the fact that she's now found community with Jonathan, you might call it trauma bonding.
[01:42:14] Speaker B: You could.
[01:42:14] Speaker C: You could call it that.
But she's going to start giving that community to Jonathan. That's going to make him open his eyes and start seeing what she's seeing and what his mother is seeing.
Because he's been denying. Right. And just. And fair enough. Of course he has been.
[01:42:30] Speaker B: Well, yeah, he's busy.
[01:42:31] Speaker A: Wasn't his mom.
[01:42:32] Speaker B: He's busy.
[01:42:33] Speaker A: He's taking care of the entire household.
[01:42:35] Speaker C: Doesn't have time. He's also. Yeah, he's a working. He's a single mom who works too hard. He loves his kids and never stops.
But, like, I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, if, like, Joyce is in his community right now. Yeah, he's gonna find it through Nancy. And Joyce doesn't even know it yet, but Hopper is going to be her community too. Like, that's just. He's. He's on her side this episode, but he's just doing his own thing right now to figure things out. So it's interesting how that. How this is all coming together and. And it's a great scene to just show. Everybody is worried about Will and they found him, but it's obviously a lot more scary than what they could have imagined it was going to be.
[01:43:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
So in the red room, Nancy and Jonathan are developing a new picture. Only this time he's brightening and enlarging the image. As he focuses, Nancy asks him if his mom said where the monster had gotten to, but he responds that she only mentioned that came through the wall. Again, interesting to note that Nancy just seems to believe that Joyce, unlike everyone else, has.
[01:43:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, obviously, yeah.
[01:43:35] Speaker A: And then they wait for the photo to develop. Nancy tries to make small talk, asks Jonathan about his photography, and he admits that he'd rather observe people than talk to them and that he knows it's Weird. He says, it's just sometimes people don't really say what they're really thinking, but you capture the right moment and it says more. Nancy asks him what she was saying when he took her picture, and he kind of like, looks down, says, he shouldn't have taken it before apologizing. Okay, he apologized. We'll give him that.
He goes, continue. Nancy sees the photo and points to a very faint shot, which I still can't see. And she's like, that's it. That's what I saw. And I'm like, it looks like a tree, girl. It looks like a tree. A very pale tree. And then Jonathan's like, whoa, this is it. He's like, I thought my mom was crazy. And he's like. He's like, she said, that's not Will's body. He's like, will's alive. And Nancy's like, if he's alive, then maybe Barbara is alive, live.
And then at the corner's office.
Geez, yeah, yeah, it must be serious.
So Hopper pulls up to the corner's office and then goes to grab his hat and then tosses it back on the dash. Walks in, is like, hey, Patty. Forgot my hat, Miss. Man can really turn on the charm when he wants to. I was like, hopper. He's like, I'll just be a minute in the back. He approaches the guard on duty and is all disarming, like, hey, I love that book. It's a nasty mutt. But my dirty brain thought he said, I love that book. It's got nasty smut.
[01:44:58] Speaker B: He's reading fairy smut in 1980.
[01:45:01] Speaker A: I was like, tim, my near. Is that you?
[01:45:04] Speaker C: Hello?
[01:45:06] Speaker B: What is that series called? Acotar or whatever.
[01:45:08] Speaker A: That's not that smutty, but it's really good. Oh, yeah, it really isn't.
[01:45:15] Speaker B: Damn.
[01:45:15] Speaker A: But there's. There's more out there. Anyway, this guy's reading Cujo by Stephen King, but I like to believe he's reading smut. And then gets up really quick because he doesn't want Hopper to see what he's reading.
[01:45:26] Speaker B: He's reading Banjel fanfiction.
[01:45:29] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[01:45:31] Speaker C: Hidden inside a Cujo book.
[01:45:34] Speaker A: And Hopper's like, oh, I love that.
The officer's like, you can't be back here, and gets in his way. Hopper's just throwing stuff at the wall. He's like, I just talked with o'. Bannon. He needs you. It's an emergency. The guy's like, I don't work with Obannon. Hopper's like, did I Say o'. Bannon. I'm meant he like sits for a minute and then he goes, you know what? I just don't have time for this. It just slugs him.
Violence is clearly the answer to my problems today. And he punches him twice. And you could tell his like hand is smarting. He's like, ow. Goes for his keys. Sexy violent man. Most alive he's felt in years, I think.
Interesting. So in the essay the Forgotten World by Anthony David Franklin, he discusses how Hopper depicts the city cops trope. Whereas the deputies and the officers, like his lieutenants or whoever they're called, are the small town cops. So city cops are like John McLean from Die Hard, typically charismatic anti heroes. They're usually reactionary white male agents. And they're driven by the feeling of being in a world that has lost ground to lunacy and greed, fighting against, against that privileged agent that wrecks people's lives and makes them fear for their nation's health. So essentially in this show it's the government, the lying government that's tearing families apart heart. It's very anti Reagan of them.
[01:46:44] Speaker C: It's Batman versus Superman.
[01:46:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes. In you have small town cops that are usually bumbling, oblivious and impotent. We'll go more into this later once we know more of Hopper's backstory. But essentially this is giving Hopper purpose again and distracting him from self destruction in a lot of ways. So this, this scene is insane. He goes in the room, he finds the freezer with Will's so called body, uncovers it, and you can just tell he's having this conversation with himself. Like that looks like dead. A body that looks like Will's dead body. And if I do this, I'm going to hell. So he like gathers himself, approaches the body again and then uncovers the torso and touches the chest and then realizes something is wrong. The script says the skin bends inward too easily like rubber. So he gathers himself again, whips out his knife, gathers himself again, then gathers himself again and then stabs into the torso, makes a giant slice. This is just eerie. And the body's just filled with stuffing. And it's not actually a body. There's no skin. And you could tell he's like shocked. Probably a little relieved.
[01:47:50] Speaker C: Or imagine if he was like, maybe this is what coroners do. Like, do they just shove our dead bodies full of like cotton?
I laughed at this because I was like, okay.
Because at first I think what we were talking about, Leia, was like, okay, is that really the place where you would cut? Like if you had to cut in to find out if this is a dummy or not.
Yeah, because I was like, I don't know if I'd cut the torso, but I'm like. But then I guess that's like the.
[01:48:14] Speaker A: The.
[01:48:15] Speaker C: That's like the main area. Like, yeah, I guess. Like, where else are you gonna get. For sure. Clarification. But I was like, I don't know. Yeah, probably arm. Like the.
[01:48:24] Speaker B: The gut.
[01:48:25] Speaker C: He didn't just go for the chest. It was like the gut, like the belly.
[01:48:28] Speaker A: Because it's more dramatic, Steph. Because we all want to be sitting there viscerally reacting to it all. Okay, so I have have probably the craziest fun fact I've ever, ever seen on, like, with both angel and this one. This one literally has Angel. Yeah, possibly. Oh, just wait. It's the most wild thing I've ever heard. Okay, so Will's fake body was made with a cast of Noah Schnapp's head and a full body cast of a very petite woman, because SFX makeup artists don't like to do full body molds on children as they should.
So this is from the Duffer Brothers. Others, they said. Now, David obviously didn't plunge his knife into our little actor's chest, but it wasn't visual effects either. It was a fake corpse built by a talented artist named Justin Raleigh, whose company, Fractured fx, builds prosthetics for many hit shows, including one of our personal favorites, Steven Soderbergh's the Nick. In fact, Justin's designs for that show were so realistic that the Boston Children's Hospital now has him build simulation bodies to train their surgeons.
So interesting, right? About a month after we spoke to Justin about the job, we received our very own dead body of Noah Schnapp, the wonderful actor who plays Will. If you have a dark side like we do, this was a creepy and fun present. We immediately took Noah's mom aside, told her we had something to show her, and led her to a dark closet where we had propped up this frighteningly realistic corpse of her son. She was startled by at first, and we felt like maybe we crossed a line.
[01:49:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:49:57] Speaker A: But after the initial shock, she loved it. Before long, she was taking pictures with her child's fake corpse and texting the photo to all her friends. Yeah, Noah has a pretty cool mom.
[01:50:06] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[01:50:07] Speaker B: That's crazy. Was Noah standing next to her?
[01:50:10] Speaker C: Like, how would.
[01:50:11] Speaker A: I'm sorry. I. I would not. I would never forgive someone if they did that to me. I don't want that.
[01:50:16] Speaker C: Wouldn't Be funny to me.
[01:50:18] Speaker A: I would. I would not be. Be happy. That's insane to me.
[01:50:23] Speaker C: And the fact that they're like, oh, my point.
[01:50:26] Speaker B: And start laughing.
[01:50:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I like, I. I'm all for pranks, but like, this. That would upset me.
[01:50:34] Speaker A: Oh my God.
Yes, exactly.
[01:50:38] Speaker C: I'd laugh later at how upset I got about it.
[01:50:40] Speaker B: You know what I mean?
[01:50:41] Speaker C: But I'd be like, I didn't.
[01:50:43] Speaker A: This is such like teenager boy behavior. Like, or just man behavior. Being like, this will be really funny.
[01:50:50] Speaker C: Let's go get his mom and scare her.
[01:50:52] Speaker A: In a dark closet and there's a dead body of your child. Just.
[01:50:56] Speaker C: Oh my God.
[01:50:57] Speaker A: Wildest story.
[01:50:58] Speaker B: Did you know that the dead body existed? Like, did she know that that was going to be a thing?
[01:51:02] Speaker A: She must.
[01:51:03] Speaker B: Or was it just.
[01:51:03] Speaker A: I'm assuming she must have. If she. They would have to sign paperwork to have his. His head cast. Yeah, that stuff. But maybe. Maybe she didn't know the. The full extent with the rest of the body since he didn't have his body taken. Either way, that's probably not what she was expecting inside of the closet.
[01:51:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I think just seeing the body of like somebody, you know, looking like that, like, I remember. Who was it?
[01:51:24] Speaker A: He looks.
[01:51:25] Speaker B: Did an interview. Al Fanning and Dakota Fanning were doing an interview together. I saw it on Tick Tock and
[01:51:31] Speaker A: I think it was.
[01:51:32] Speaker B: Elle Fanning had watched a movie where Dakota died and she got like very appealing upset seeing her sister die on screen. Yeah, I guess it's like the visual of seeing somebody, you know, like somebody you love.
[01:51:46] Speaker C: Yeah, of course. I don't want to see that. Like, especially if it is too. If it was like my friend. It's like.
But like, but if it's your kid and like your little kid.
[01:51:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Your child.
[01:51:58] Speaker C: Too far.
[01:51:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:51:59] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
I was like, I was. I would read it to Andrew and he was like, like, jaw on the floor and he goes, oh, it's Joss Whedon all over again. I was like, no, no, no, please.
[01:52:12] Speaker C: Sounds like she laughed. Sounds like she. Or maybe she was just playing along
[01:52:16] Speaker B: because it's like maybe she was nervously laughing. She was like, she's like so funny.
[01:52:21] Speaker A: Goes in the bathroom and cries.
[01:52:23] Speaker C: I would. That would upset me. Yeah, same damn.
[01:52:28] Speaker A: Hang on. My white noise turned on because it's telling me it's bedtime. Hey, good Google turn off thunderstorm noises.
[01:52:34] Speaker B: Your white noise goes on automatically. I need to get me one of those.
[01:52:36] Speaker A: Andrew automates everything in this house.
[01:52:39] Speaker B: Damn. I have a little one from Amazon. I Have to press.
[01:52:42] Speaker C: That's my favorite. That's like, one of my favorite tick tock trends. When it was like, hey, I put on white noise when I sleep. Is that okay? And they're like, yeah, no problem. And then they turn off.
[01:52:50] Speaker A: Her head was dismembered. Her body was ripped apart.
[01:52:54] Speaker C: Or it's like, you know, you're still the one I. I want.
It's okay if I. Is it okay if I put on brown noise? Like, yeah, of course.
And then they're like. They're like.
Like a. A customer service person.
[01:53:13] Speaker A: Oh, no.
Some sales rep. Have you tried turning off your computer?
That's so funny.
[01:53:24] Speaker C: It's my favorite trend. It's so funny.
[01:53:26] Speaker A: Oh, that's hilarious.
[01:53:27] Speaker C: That's really funny.
[01:53:28] Speaker A: Or.
[01:53:28] Speaker C: No, but, like, the worst one was like, is. I put on black noise. Is that. Is that okay?
[01:53:35] Speaker A: White noise in this m m.
[01:53:39] Speaker C: You know, we're like, like, I'm gonna stand
[01:53:43] Speaker B: up,
[01:53:47] Speaker C: find the trend. It is so fun.
[01:53:48] Speaker A: That is hilarious.
[01:53:49] Speaker B: I have seen it. I've seen it on my fyp.
[01:53:53] Speaker C: Anyway, sorry to digress.
[01:53:54] Speaker A: No, you're fine.
All right. So at the Byers, Joyce is sitting on the floor in the house. Headlight pulls up. We're fully expecting it to be Hopper. Like, thank God. Somebody tell her she's not crazy. Only it's freaking Lonnie. She gets out to meet him, and he's like, what the hell happened? See the giant freaking hole in the house? And Joyce is, like, sopping in his arms. I'm like, no, girl, get away.
Get away from your toxic ex.
[01:54:18] Speaker B: This kid has been missing for how long? And Lonnie's just showing up now?
[01:54:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Trash father, trash person.
[01:54:26] Speaker C: Hank Summers.
[01:54:27] Speaker A: Hey, Lonnie. Yeah, the Hank Summers of the stranger verse.
All right, so then we see more headlights pull up at a restricted area lab sign as Hopper approaches the fence surrounding the lab. The music ramps up as we see Hopper exit carrying a massive pair of bolt cutters. And the episode ends as he begins to cut the chain link fence. Oh, Hopper is going off the grid, you guys.
Yeah, we're gonna move forward.
[01:54:54] Speaker C: We're taking everything. We're just.
[01:54:55] Speaker A: We're.
[01:54:56] Speaker C: We're embracing the crazy and we're gonna move forward. Yeah.
[01:55:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I hope he starts punching people. More people.
Hope we get more answers. Maybe Joyce, more blood. Keep chopping things down with that ax.
[01:55:10] Speaker C: More team ups. More of these team ups. Like, I love together.
Nancy and Jonathan getting together right now is a good. Is a good, interesting thing.
[01:55:19] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, we need more of those Agreed, agreed, Agreed. But, yeah, what a. What a really full episode. Really fun episode. And at this point, we're halfway through the series, so in a lot of ways, this feels like a mid series or mid. Sorry. We're halfway through the mid season. It's like a mid season finale, and we're really getting ready to move into the back half, which is crazy. After four episodes. I'm so used to. To, like, all right, 11 episodes in. We're halfway through the season, guys.
[01:55:48] Speaker C: Barely halfway.
[01:55:49] Speaker B: I genuinely don't remember anything that happens after this.
[01:55:52] Speaker A: That's crazy. Well, this is gonna be really fun.
[01:55:54] Speaker C: To Strange things to do the rest.
[01:55:57] Speaker B: Strange. Strange.
[01:55:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Good episode. Thank you, Steph, for joining. This was really fun.
[01:56:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. What an exciting episode to join on.
[01:56:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Let us know if you want to have to come back for season two.
[01:56:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:56:10] Speaker C: Invite me anytime. I'll come back every season and pick it. Pick an episode for me.
[01:56:14] Speaker A: That'd be fun. Cool. I have. I'm very excited. I have a lot of people that I want to have on. On the roster for season two, so we're gonna have. Have a good lineup, and maybe we'll invite Karma.
[01:56:24] Speaker B: Like, really good. I think it would be fun to have Cara on and, like, have her just watch an episode without having seen anything else.
[01:56:31] Speaker A: That would actually be hilarious.
[01:56:32] Speaker B: We should come and see what she thinks.
[01:56:34] Speaker C: Raw dog it. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:56:36] Speaker B: That would actually be kind of fun, I think.
[01:56:38] Speaker A: No clue, no context. What's going on? Just like, okay, throw her in.
[01:56:42] Speaker B: Like, surely she knows the general, like, gist of the show, right?
[01:56:46] Speaker C: Who can say? Who could say? She did text me in the middle of this, and she was like, how come Leia sent us a link? Am I supposed to be recording something tonight? Like, she's, like, freaking out at all.
[01:56:54] Speaker A: Nothing.
[01:56:55] Speaker C: And I was like, no, you weren't invited.
It's just me. And she's like, okay, have fun. Say hi to everybody.
[01:57:02] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[01:57:05] Speaker B: She's like, I was making sure it
[01:57:06] Speaker C: wasn't my fault is what she was saying.
[01:57:08] Speaker B: We're gonna have her on next time, and she'll just. If she wants to, she can watch the whole thing. She doesn't want to.
[01:57:13] Speaker A: She can watch just that episode. She can do whatever. She's.
[01:57:16] Speaker B: An episode. We'll have to pick, like, a really good episode where something like.
[01:57:19] Speaker C: Yeah, one that'll make her want to watch the rest of the show.
[01:57:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I know which one will do the standalone in season two.
[01:57:26] Speaker C: Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
[01:57:27] Speaker B: She literally
[01:57:30] Speaker A: the only, like, standalone episode in a lot of ways. Yeah, for sure. No, we'll find something good. It'll be juicy, meaty, and then Cara is gonna have to go and, like, watch the rest.
Find out. Yeah, it'll be great. So. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening and we will talk to you next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us an investigatingangelpodcast@gmail com.
