[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a Movie and television Rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are doing our season two recap. It's hard to believe that we have two seasons down with the show already. I think I was tallying it up, and I think two seasons of the show, including, like, our recaps, doesn't even count for one whole season of Angel.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah, angel was so long that wild.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: How are we ever in a season for that long?
[00:01:09] Speaker B: I think it's because we knew this. Like, we know the show. Yeah. So I don't know. It's. I feel like Buffy and Angel are just different.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: You know, I don't think I could
[00:01:20] Speaker A: do that with any other show, to be honest.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: But still. Yeah, that's like. That's a lot of. That's what, 23, 24 episodes, technically, because we're doing, like, an intro episode. Well, only for season one, but still. Yeah.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah. But at least 23. Every single. Every single season.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: I was gonna say semester, not that.
Yeah. But speaking of which. So it's kind of weird because technically, Leia and I have already had our break from the podcast. You guys didn't know because we were still rolling out episodes, but we're going to be taking a podcast hiatus from releasing episodes after this one.
We will be back. It's gonna be a little bit of a longer one. We're hoping to kind of get some recording under our belts in the meantime. But we will be back from our break on October 1st again. I know it's a little bit longer, but I think it'd be really good. It'll allow us to, like, get under, like, season three a little bit, and then we can go straight into season four, after which I know everyone's waiting to hear us talk about season four.
Wants to. Talking about season four.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: This is my favorite season.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one for sure. So, yeah, it's gonna be a little bit of a hiatus, but in the meantime. So Tony and I from. He's from All Bronze, no Brains. He's. Come on. You guys know Tony. He and I have been working on a little side project.
It's called an occasional. Well, it's called not our first podcast, and it's an occasional rewatch podcast. And it's going to be dropping episodes while we're on break, starting on August 20th. So I think like two weeks after we end, it'll start and then it'll go for the remainder of the time that we're on hiatus.
Our plan is for Tony and I to do like limited series or shorter series that the other person hasn't seen and kind of just doing it whenever we feel like it. So it's going to be one of those things where we'll drop a season, disappear for a while, and then come back with something else.
Hence the occasional aspect. But for, for our first season, we're going to be covering the Netflix limited series, his and hers, which Leia, you still need to watch because it is right up your alley, I guarantee you. Sounds like it's very 2000s. Like it's for millennials. 100%.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's a mystery. It's a murder mystery and it's just got some good stuff. And it's a six episode show, so if you guys want to follow along with that, you can go to our Instagram. Not our first podcast. We're actually going to be dropping our first trailer the day that this episode airs so you guys can go over and watch. And it's going to be a slightly different format and style from like what you and I do and what I've done on becoming Buffy.
One of the things that we did that I'm really excited about is Tony and I actually he watched and then we both recorded all of the episodes in a single day.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: So.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, in a single day. So we planned one day and he watched the first episode and then he and I would immediately start recording. After he watched the first episode and discuss it, he. He gives his theories. He actually recorded himself watching it too, so you're gonna get to see his reaction.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: That's so fun.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: It's really fun. And it's a video podcast, so it's very different.
Yeah. And so then after we recorded the first episode, we'd log off, he'd go watch the second episode and then we'd get right back on. And we did that for all six episodes. And then for the sixth episode, we actually recorded both of us watching it. So him watching the entire thing for the first time because it's got a sweet finale and. Yeah. And then we discuss it afterwards. So it's really fun.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: I can't. I've already did that in a single day.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: It was like 13 hours.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: Oh my God.
Yeah, that's crazy. But I mean, I guess you don't have tired dedicate any other time if you're Just doing it all in one day.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: And you know what? It was actually really fun for it being a murder mystery show, because Tony's trying to figure out the mystery the entire time. And it's one of those shows where I think it would have been really hard to record once a week because he would have forgotten about some of the stuff. And then it also allowed us to kind of, like, talk about the stuff as it was happening, and it just was really, really fun. So you guys get to see all his theories at the end? We do, like, we call it the red string board, where he talks about who he thinks is the culprit, who he thinks is gonna die next, or all that stuff. So it's. It's a really, really fun format, and I'm very excited for you guys to watch it. And it'll be, like this fun little.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: I'm excited.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: So. So you'll have to watch it along with us, lamb, and give us your theories.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: So I definitely will.
[00:05:45] Speaker A: So, yeah, check out the podcast. And. Yeah, and we'll be back on October 1st. But until then, let's talk about season two. So, Leia, I have a couple of questions for you before we jump into the guest.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: I have no idea what these questions are, by the way.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: I know you never do. Always going in cold.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Even when I do, I never prepare.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: You never remember either, even if I sent them ahead of time. Be like, wow, this is my first time seeing all of this.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah. What?
[00:06:13] Speaker A: All right, so overall thoughts on the season, especially in comparison to season one. Did you like it? The same? Did you like it? Not as much. Like, what were your thoughts on it?
[00:06:26] Speaker B: I.
I feel like the season started off, like, a little slow.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: I think I really enjoyed the second half of the season a lot.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: I think season one is just really fun because it just. It's like the first time you're watching the show, and it just has a very specific vibe.
But I really enjoyed the dynamics in this season. I think they've done a good job of, like, building it up, and I'm excited to, like, keep watching.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:53] Speaker B: So I don't know if I would say that, like, season two was, like, an amazing season for me.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: I think it had a lot of really good stuff in it, obviously.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: But maybe that's because I'm also remembering, like, other stuff that happens. I don't know if it was good. It just, like, there were some episodes where I was like, meh. And then other episodes where I was like, wow, this is really great. So, yeah.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I would agree.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: I know it's your favorite season. You, you always.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: Season two is just so, it's so fun. And I, I, I like season two and I like season four like the best. Those are my two favorite seasons. But I would agree with you. I think, I think that's actually a weakness that seasons two and three have is where the first half of it is pretty slow. Slow. And then it gets into it. I would say season two definitely has pacing issues.
I think that it doesn't keep my attention as much as season one does. But I think what, what you said, the dynamics are what makes season two so fun. I think that's why I like it a lot. I really love the addition of Bob, Billy and Max, and then I just love the Steve and Dustin stuff. And I think all of that is what really makes me enjoy it a lot. But season one, I think, had a better mystery because we're discovering it for the first time. So it was like, we also enjoy the character dynamics, but we were also uncovering this stuff for the first time too.
So I think there was a tension that season one had that season two doesn't quite have. And so sometimes my attention did kind of wander a little bit.
But yeah, I think this season was a little bit better balanced with the humor, the horror and the drama versus season one was a little bit more leaning on the horror and the drama of it all.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is what I really love.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: I feel like that's why I kind of lean more towards season one.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Versus season two. But that's not to say, like, I think this show has five seasons because of the dynamics between the characters. Like, that's what the show's all about, you know. So I think season two does a really good job of building on that.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: For even future seasons and like, for future storylines. So.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I know sometimes it's weird looking back with characters like Erica and with Max forgetting that they weren't there in the, really in the first season, you know,
[00:09:10] Speaker B: like, waiting for them to show up.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: I can't wait to see more of those two, specifically.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm very excited. Okay. So favorite storyline this season for you?
[00:09:23] Speaker B: I think. I think it has to be Will, like Will's possession. I just think that was, that was the most horror esque, I think, out of the season, which is going to be my favorite.
I just thought, you know, what's the actor's name again?
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Oh, Noah Schnapp.
We take a month off and you forget about everybody's Names.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Anyway, I thought he. His acting was like, very, very good this season.
Very, like, spooky, very haunting.
Just, I think the mystery of that too, was really cool. It was very season one mystery esque. Like, you kind of know what it is, but you also don't know what it is and you know that it's danger.
I obviously really enjoyed Steve, but I feel like we didn't really get, like, too much Steve this season, which I want to see more. Steve, I really enjoyed the Nancy and Jonathan dynamic. Like, I was thinking, somebody sent me an ask on Tumblr the other day, asking me, like, what other ships do you like other than Banjel? Because all I ever post about is Banjel.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: No, I was like, you know what?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: I'm not really like a shipper. Like, I don't really watch shows and then end up by the end of the show, like, being really invested in, like, one couple.
Except for Banejel, because I like, imprinted them on them at a very young age.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: And they on you. Yes, yes.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: But I decided I was like, let me just like, make a list of all the shows that I've watched and like, what I liked at the time that I watched them, because I find that that's what I tend to kind of do. Like, when I'm watching a show, if I like a dynamic while it's happening, I'll. I'll like it. But then when it's done, it's like over. And I. I listed a bunch of shows and then I was like, I'm current. Like, I'm watching Stranger Things right now. And I'm really finding the Nancy and Jonathan dynamic interesting just because I feel like the, like, the kid ships are very, like, I don't know, they're just kids.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Kids. Yeah.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: You know, but I feel like with Jonathan and Nancy, like, it just, it makes sense and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it.
So, yeah, that was kind of an interest. That's an interesting storyline. I feel like Bob was really fun.
But, yeah, I think if I had to pick one, it would probably be Will.
Yeah, obviously. Yeah. Yep.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: For the horror, for sure.
I think my favorite storyline was Max's storyline with Billy and Lucas. I thought that was very interesting, very unique. And of course I love the Steve and Dustin dynamic, but I also really found myself being very emotionally moved and invested with Ellen Hopper's relationship and their dynamic and how it was very tumultuous. And then especially coming off the heels of what we've learned about him and his daughter last Season, and. And then I, like, they. The show just did a very good job of showing Elle and Brenner's relationship and Hopper and his daughter's relationship, and then putting these two very broken characters together and then watching things kind of explode. And then by the end, like, that, that scene of them in the truck in the finale was just so beautiful. And so I really, really enjoyed that. And I'm. I'm looking forward to seeing where the show goes with that next season and beyond, because hopefully they can get to a healthier place and all of that stuff. But, yeah, I think for me, it was Ellen, Hopper, and then also just Max and Billy and. Yeah, all of that stuff.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Those were really great, too.
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so which characters are you most invested in after this season?
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God. That's really hard to say because I know how. I know what happens.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: I know.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Well, I was hard to answer that question.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: I was gonna ask you after all of this.
We'll run through what you remember for season three and the spoiler. Spoiler section of the episode.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I guess if I had to pick, like, I'd say l. Like, I want to see more. L. I want to see more Hopper. I'd like to see more Nancy, more Max and Billy.
Yeah, obviously Steve and Dustin.
You know, I think Joyce Johnson looking.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Like, I don't know. I mean, Karen, like, if I had to pick one where I'm not really that invested, it would be like, Mike at this time.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Ah, there it is.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: You know, but the thing is, like, these characters come in pairs.
Yeah.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: So if you have one, you're gonna have the other one.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like, Elle, obviously, like, they come in herds.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: They move in herds. I always knew.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: I feel like if you're invested in Elle's story, like, Mike is a part of Elle's story, but I'm not necessarily, like, invested in Mike as a character, so we'll see what happens. Because I just feel like they didn't really do much with him this season. He was just kind of annoying. He's just a fucking nag all season.
But, yeah. Yeah, it's just. It's hard to, like, say, because I also don't, like, this is a pretty big cast, but it's also not really, because, again, they all come in pairs. It feels like.
So. So, yeah. I don't know. How about you?
[00:14:38] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, I mean, Elle for sure. Max, Steve, Nancy, Lucas and Dustin. Everyone else, I don't really care as much about, obviously. Well, and Hopper, too. I kind of want to see Hopper, but.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So who else is left?
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Jonathan,
[00:14:52] Speaker B: but Jonathan comes with Nancy.
Yeah.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: So when I say Nancy, I know Jonathan will be there. When I say Steve, I know he's gonna be there.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: We'll get.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: We'll get to him. We'll get to him.
That was the next. That was the next question. Who do you not want to see more of?
Good Lord.
Yeah. Okay. What do you want to see from the show moving forward?
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Oh, God. I know.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Sorry. I'm throwing really hard, really hard questions at you.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: I want to see.
I want to see. I want to see them go to the Upside Down. All of them together.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah, they didn't go the Upside down at all this season.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: No.
I want to see what else is behind those gooey walls that make you enter.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: What you got in that house? What you got in that room? Have you not heard that TikTok stuff.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Me knocking on the doors of the Upside Down?
Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think I. I'd love to see the stakes get higher for them to go to the Upside Down.
Obviously there's going to be more stuff there because it's like an endless, like, void of fucking ash and monsters.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Hello? I know you got more. Let's go.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Hello? Give me monsters.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Knock, knock.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Obviously, I feel like with Will, like, that's not done. Like, there's poor Kim. Yeah. Like, he's going to be more possessed, I feel like.
But. Yeah, and then I think there's. I'm. I'm interested to see if they're gonna keep going with, like, the government stuff. Yeah, I feel like that's an interesting part of the show. Like, you have the Upside down, which is, like, the mystical, like, supernatural aspect, like the danger, but then you have the government, who's also a huge danger.
So I'd like to maybe see more of that. I don't know.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Each season of Stranger Things, they always have a human aspect that is always as much of a threat as the Upside Down.
Yeah. I think it'll be really interesting to talk about season three, because I think you can just tell they really kind of closed a chapter at the end of season two, and it feels like we're in for a shift with the show. Like, the show obviously has to expand. It can't continue the way it has, or else we're going to start getting real bored. So season three, I don't think it's a spoiler. I mean, I've been talking about it, but it's like, it's going to be very different and So I think them having an expansion on some of the stuff, but then also some new stuff is going to be really, really interesting to talk about. I want to see. And I think. I know a couple of people talked about it in, I think, our discord. I think it was Grace, continued development between the girls and then some girl friendships, mind you. And this is just a little teaser, everybody, for season three.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: But
[00:17:43] Speaker A: the Me Too movement happens between season two and season three, which is wild because we're over here in the post Me Too movement. And it kind of feels like it's been around for forever, but happened around 2017, 18, 19, somewhere in there. I can't remember exactly, someone knows.
But this show, this show or this season came right before that, and season three came on the heels of that. And so it'll be interesting to talk about the show in conjunction with all of that stuff coming forward. But, I mean, already season two was so much better from a female perspective and female focus than season one, or at least it expanded so much more because we have the inclusion of Max now. Nancy's always been great, but I got
[00:18:28] Speaker B: a whole episode where it was just
[00:18:30] Speaker A: about out and about and her and another girl, like, it just was fantastic. And then we have Erica joining the cast now, too. And, like, so I. I just want to see more girls. I want to see more girl inclusion, more girl friendships. I want to see Elle finding herself and having a normal life finally. Like, let's give her some some normalcy, you know, Steve having more time with the main cast, which I think is what you said. Like, we just didn't get enough of him this season.
I want to see more of Elle using her superpowers. I feel like we didn't get enough of that this season.
And then I want less of Mike whining.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah. My God, he's such a whiner. God, he has L back now, though, so maybe that will.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: Yeah, his mood will improve drastically.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Stop him from whining if it doesn't.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: What. What do you want?
[00:19:16] Speaker B: What do you want with your mind, Elle? Just blow them up.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Finally we'll know him finally.
And then. Okay, so who do you think needs more development or more screen time?
[00:19:31] Speaker B: Mike.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah, that's who I wrote, too. I feel like that's the obvious. I wrote my notes.
My God, he was a hard watch this season.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: I feel like Mike, but also, like, I'd like to see more of Jonathan. I feel like Jonathan.
Jonathan is a character that's, like I kept saying in the beginning, he's, like, attached to Other characters. But it doesn't feel like Jonathan is his own character sometimes.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Same with Will. Honestly, Will is very much an extension, I feel like of Mike and Joyce, but not really his own person. He would be nice to see non possessed so that we can kind of see him. Like what his personality is like when he's not writhing.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Well, I mean, in season one, he was not present. He was like the person they were looking for.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: He was the ghost of the show.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Yeah. He was haunting the narrative in season two. The narrative was haunting him in season three. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen.
What's gonna matter? Where do we go from here? Maybe, you know, we're gonna go to the Upside down and he's gonna get haunted there too. Who knows?
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Haunted from all dimensions is crazy, crazy work.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it's Will.
More screen time, obviously. Like I want to see more Steve with the kids, specifically. I think that'll be so much fun.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: I want to see what Joyce would be doing when her son isn't in danger all the time. Like, who is Joyce? What does Joyce want?
[00:20:57] Speaker B: I feel like Joyce and Hopper have. Are going to have more.
Yeah, I feel like more of a caring.
[00:21:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Pretty obvious. Perhaps this season. And you know what? Good for them because they're bonding time. He'll be. He's a good guy. So he won't be Lonnie. But he also has, you know, some he's sexy. Protection from, you know, taking his pills.
No, not from STDs, but like, you know.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: No, I meant for mental health issues, Sarah.
From depression.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: That too.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: That too. He's very safe on all ends.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
I mostly meant he's got plot armor because he won't be like Bob. His name doesn't start with a B. So. Yeah, fine.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: Oh, Billy. Yeah. I'm excited to see Billy be more of a menace or perhaps, I don't know.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
Okay. Speaking of Billy, who is your least favorite character this season?
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Mike.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: I mean, I would.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah. If I had to pick one, it would probably be Mike just because again, I feel like he really didn't do too much this season other than whine about Elle and then be there to like support Will. Which is really great to see, but it really felt like one sided because Will was possessed most of the season.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: So, yeah, I'd say Mike was probably my least. The character that I was least interested to watch on screen as an individual character. Yeah.
[00:22:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, you all know my undying hatred for Murray. He wasn't bad this season. I can handle him in micro doses.
Sure hope he doesn't pop up later and justify all my hatred for him.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Is Murray the Spike of Stranger Things?
[00:22:50] Speaker A: I think that's Billy, unfortunately.
At least with the trajectory that he's going.
Because, I mean, I think it was Robbie who was talking about how he feels like there's a pretty big pivot. I know you don't.
Yeah. Especially with Karen. You're like, no, stay away, holy water. Get across.
But I. I will say, like, I think I. I don't like Billy's character, but I'm incredibly fascinated by him and where they're going with him. Like, I'm very, very cur.
What happens with him.
So, like, even though I'm like, he's not my favorite character, he's a very fascinating character. Yeah.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: I mean, a character doesn't have to be likable to be interesting to watch, you know, I feel like unlikable characters are, like, a really good vehicle for good storytelling. So.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Andrew and I are actually watching House of the Dragon right now, and, like, it's really hard to root for, really, any of the characters. That would be.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: That would actually be a really fun series to cover it sometime. Leia.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: I love watching shows where every single character is just. Just a giant piece of.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: I think we would have a lot of fun talking about it because, like, everybody's making poor choices.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: I tried watching Game of Thrones. I couldn't really get into it. I'm just. I just find that that type of show is not really my vibe. I don't know why I haven't tried again, I don't know if maybe political thing?
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Political stuff?
[00:24:15] Speaker B: No, I just feel like it's. It's kind of like fantasy, medieval type of like.
[00:24:20] Speaker A: Oh, you don't like medieval? Because I don't technically Buffy's fantasy.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: I know, I know. But I think it's. Maybe it's the medieval stuff.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: So. Okay. I haven't seen Game of Thrones, but I've only. I've watched House of House of the Dragon, and that is a good. It's only eight episodes, too. It's not like Game of Thrones, which is a little bit longer.
You should try. You should give it a try and just see what you think about it. Because it. It's like messy. Messy characters, and there's just.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: I'll give it a try. I'll see what happens.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: Let me know.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Again, I. I literally tried to watch Game of Thrones once in University, like, 12 years ago. And I never. Yeah, I just didn't.
I think I watched up to the Red Wedding, and then I was like, what the is this? And I stopped watching. Not because I was mad, but because I was like, you're bored.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: History. Who got to the Red Wedding? And it was like, that's it. I'm so bored. Like, there's nobody I like. Like, and want to root for. And everyone's like, sobbing, no, that's so funny. No, but you're right. Like, watching House of the Dragon, there's definitely characters that I like more than others and some that I want to root for and stuff. But I think that the way that it is set up, you're not really supposed to root for much of anybody because everyone is just kind of consumed by power or making poor choices or.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Whatever. So I. Yeah. And there's. Yeah.
I won't say too much more, but,
[00:25:43] Speaker B: yes, I still want to watch. Also, yellow jackets. I feel like. Like, you need to watch yellow jackets,
[00:25:47] Speaker A: because I've seen business
[00:25:51] Speaker B: concept of, like, they're all.
They're like teenagers, but there's also. There's also the adults, but they're very. Like, they get. They do some up and good. They're all kind of horrible in their own.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: See, here's the thing. I think that's what we're kind of missing with this show.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. These kids are not horrible.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: I need more messy people, more questionable stuff happening on my screen. People to hate.
Like, I just.
Everyone's too nice.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Yeah. It's really hard to hate anybody in this show.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Because they're children.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: So you feel bad about it. I'm just like, oh, I understand why Mike is being such a whiny little.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah, because he's 12.
Yeah, exactly. We're gonna give him a pass.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Exactly. It's okay.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But okay, so we're gonna move into the spoiler section of the podcast because pretty much everyone who was, like, sending in stuff was giving spoilers. So I was like, you know, we're
[00:26:45] Speaker B: just gonna include that.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: But. Okay, so the first question for the spoilers is, Leia, what do you remember from season three and what are your predictions?
I know this is a dicey question. We could get some of five. We could get some four in here.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Let's see. So what I remember. What I think I remember is Elle and Max are going to become friends.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: Very good friends.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: I remember the finale maybe where Dr. Brenner is, like, alive, but then he gets blown up.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Not at all. Not at all.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Is that. What season is that in?
[00:27:22] Speaker A: He never gets blown up. He never gets blown up. He's also Explosion, Season four.
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Well, okay, rewind.
Elle goes rollerblading.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Not till season four.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Max and Elle become friends.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: Yes. Let's start there.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: Good, good.
Does Eddie come in this season?
[00:27:46] Speaker A: Season four? Season four.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Robin.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Yes, she comes in season three.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Mm. Okay, Does Dusty. Dusty buns come in? What's her name? Susie.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Susie, yeah. Okay, we have Susie. Do you copy? As I think, like, the first episode. Okay.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Does Hopper go to Russia or some
[00:28:08] Speaker A: shit at the very end of the. At the. Of the season?
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Okay, so I literally don't know what season three is about. Dang, like, whatsoever. Genuinely. I'm trying to think of, like. Because I feel like everything that I remember is from season four.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: So does Billy and Karen have their thing this season and Billy kind of goes evil?
[00:28:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:31] Speaker B: Okay, so Billy gets possessed by the mind flayer in the season, and him and Karen have, like, kind of like a sexy little, like, smut book.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: They make eyes at each other and make plans to hang out, and then that's all that happens.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: And then he, like, he. He gets locked in a sauna or some.
Yep, now you're remembering. And then. Okay, so then him and Max are gonna have. It's gonna be a Max heavy. Season.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Four is really Max's season. Yes.
Yeah, season three definitely has her in it. It's more Billy heavy for sure.
There's.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: Okay, it's coming back to me a little bit now.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Well, okay. Murray is really ill in the season a lot. Do you remember Alexi at all?
[00:29:16] Speaker B: No.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: Okay. All right, well, we'll let you discover that.
There's the whole.
There's the whole.
Do you remember Carrie Ellis at all?
[00:29:27] Speaker B: No.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: He was. He's in the Princess Bride. He's.
As you wish guy. What's his name? I can't even. There's Buttercup. And Wesley. He's Wesley. And have you seen Princess Bride?
[00:29:38] Speaker B: No.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: Well, you sit there like, acting as if you've seen it. All right, well, you know, only one of the most famous movies of all time.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: But okay, so Carrie Ellis, big actor in the 80s. Have you. Have you ever seen Ella Enchanted?
[00:29:53] Speaker B: A long time ago.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Okay. He's the. The creepy uncle. Carrie Ellis is the creepy uncle with the snake in Ellen.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: We have Google and. Okay, I will look it up.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: I can't believe I think this is what Carry Ellis. Anyway. Fantastic actor. He's the mayor. So you have a huge plot point. That's happening with the Russians.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Jenkins.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he's very much like. Yeah. Mayor Wilkins. Not Jenkins. Mayor Jenkins.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: Anya Jenkins.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
Of Buffy season three.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: I watched Rich and then I was like. I don't know why. It just. Why I'm thinking just Jenkins Jenkins, but I always mix up his name. I don't know why. It's always Richard Jenkins.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Wilkins. Yeah. Yeah. So season three, it's got the mayor. We're expanding out to the town. It's got the mall. It's got the Russian thing under.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: I remember the mall. Okay. I remember the mall.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: We've got the.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: I don't remember anything that leads up to it.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: We've got the team ups of Dustin, Erica, Steve and Robin.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. Yeah, it's going to be fun.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: And then we've got the team up of Hopper, Joyce, Murray and Russians. Or Russian scientists. Alexi.
And then.
Yes. And then you have the others that are doing their things. But. Yeah, that's basically season three in a nutshell.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Okay, so season three sounds just like a jumble of mush that just gets put together.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: I mean, that's literally what happens with the monster. Do you remember how, like, the. All the stuff with the mind flayer taking corporeal.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Oh, in the mall.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Not just in the mall, but in like, the hospital and stuff. Do you remember the rats? Rat poison, all that stuff? Okay, so basically it's.
You're talking about it being a jumble of stuff. So people start getting infected by something and getting killed and turning into goo, and the goo all morphs together to make this corporeal.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: So it's a metaphor for season plot line that is just.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Hundred.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Maybe that's why I don't remember what goes on in season three. Because it's just like.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Because the combination of everything, the mind, the rift is shut. So the mind flayer can't get back into Hawkins. So it creates. It uses Billy to create an army of zombies that turn into piles of mush.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Fun.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: That.
Yeah.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: So like a goose. An episode of Goosebumps.
[00:32:22] Speaker A: It literally is. It literally is. It's the most, like.
I don't know, because season four, obviously, with Vecna and everything is pretty, like, creepy and stuff, but this one is more just like.
Like want to barf in your mouth with how, like, gross all the goo is that. Yeah.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: I think you.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: I really think you're gonna enjoy season three a lot. It's very, very campy.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Love that.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: So. And goofy and.
Yeah. So that's season three.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yep, yep. All right, so now we're gonna get to the listener thoughts from Maja. Hey, Sarah and Leia. I wanted to share two examples of how events in season two connect well and badly to later seasons.
First, the good connection. The conversation where Lucas tells Max about the upside Down. He asks her if she wants to accept the risk, even warning that it could get her killed. And she accepts, which actually foreshadows season four, where she takes the risk of baiting Vecna in the finale, which gets her killed. There have been many a fan edit where we have that moment where Lucas says, do you accept the risks? And then we cut to Max being hunted by Vecna and then all chills.
Yeah. Yep, yep. Now onto the bad Kali, or rather her wasted potential. Kali serves to teach Elle about her powers and how to use her emotions to control them. The thing is, Elle learns that same thing from Vecna, AKA one, in a flashback in season four. And even though El doesn't remember him because of her trauma in season two, it's still weird that she learns the same lesson twice. In season five, Callie seems to only exist, so Elle kills herself in the finale. The connection the two have to Vecna is barely touched upon, as is her teaching Elle about their powers. They could have had Elle upset and angry by the memory of Vecna killing Max and Callie noticing telling Elle to use those emotions in order to beat Vecna and his upside down creatures, with Elle's friends being worried that she pushes herself too far. Instead, Callie's character gets undermined by introducing Vecna and then used to push the Duffer's horrible ending for Elle after killing her Cali off. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this. Have a nice week.
So I. I was going to ask. So season five is the most recent season you have obviously watched before doing the podcast. Are your thoughts on how Cie was used both in season five and this one now that you've had that refresher?
[00:34:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know.
I feel like I'll have to, like, rewatch season five to.
To kind of make up my mind. Like, I kind of agree with what Maha's saying Maja's saying about how, you know, she's kind of used as she's. She's a plot device essentially in season five to get Elle to that place where she's willing to sacrifice herself or like, wanting to kind of end her own life to stop the cycle. I don't know. It's.
I feel like with Cali, I always wish there Was, like, more.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: But we never actually get more. So maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: You kind of have to go back and watch season five a little bit more analytically. I mean.
Yeah, I just think Cali season five, in it itself, like, this is no secret. It's just a mess.
Specifically with Elle, but with. With a lot of things. So with Ellen, the whole Cali storyline of it all. Cali is not really her own independent character in season five. Like, in season two, I feel like she's got her own desires, her own wishes, and she's her very much her own character. Love her or hate her. And season five, we lose a lot of that, and we. And what I don't understand is I don't get how we. We go from Cali being like, burn the world down. Go kill. Have vengeance with everybody in season two to season five, we need to kill ourselves.
How do we get. There's no journey, and there's no understanding of how Cali reaches that point, except for a quick flashback where she sees all the pregnant women, and you are like, okay, she doesn't want to perpetuate the cycle. But, like, what happened to Cali in the time that Elle's been gone? How did Cali get captured? What has that done to her mindset? Like, there's just all this stuff that I just think they didn't do a very good job of fleshing her out. And, I mean, Maja's right. Like, they. They use her as a plot device just so Elle kills herself. And that in and of itself, doesn't even fully make sense narratively with or even even thematically with what they've been trying to say.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: I feel like.
Like, I feel like if they wanted to get Elle to a place where she's like, okay, the only way out of this entire situation is for me to kill myself.
I think it makes sense that Callie would be the one to be alongside her, like, kind of pushing her there a little bit. It's just. I think you're right. Like, we never got to see how Callie herself got there. Like, it would have been weird for somebody else to be the one to do it. Do you know what I mean? Like, imagine if it was, like, Mike or, like, Hopper or whatever.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Right?
[00:37:19] Speaker B: You know? So I feel like it had to be somebody like, either Vecna as Henry or Cali being the ones to be like, hey, by the way.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're saying there's, like, potential for them to have gotten there. We just don't know how they got there. Yeah.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Like, I don't. I don't hate the fact that they got there. I also still, like, I don't know exactly how I feel about Elle's ending. Like, I'm.
There's parts of it that I like that I think make sense. There's also other parts that I really don't like, but I feel like it. It's not unreasonable for them to have gotten to that point to be like.
Especially with everything they. They did to show us why. Like you said, like, the flashback of her seeing all the pregnant women and stuff. I think it makes sense that it would be Collie's job to do that. I just. Like you said, it's. It's like, you don't.
Cali is not a character that I'm ever very invested in because you don't really see much of her outside of the Lost Sister. And then do we even really see her after that until.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: No. The next time we see her is in season five. But it's like, how did Cali get from. I want to have vengeance on every single. Every single person because they stole my life. And I'm angry about it, too. I'm willing to. I'm gonna sacrifice my life now, too. That seems like very different motivations. Also, season two, Cali, I don't think think would have ever gotten to that place because she was so full of rage and anger. But now, all of a sudden, she's, like, meditating with Elle in season five, and it's like. It's just very, very different.
Yeah. So. And I. And I agree what Maja said, like, the connection that Kali and Elle have to Vecna is barely touched upon, which that would have been a really interesting dynamic. Dynamic to see between the three of them because, you know, at some point, they all three knew each other.
So. Yeah, I mean, just. But season five will be really interesting to talk about because overall, a lot of just, like, really missed opportunities. Like, I think the bones were there. Just how they went about some of the stuff just was really, really frustrating. But okay. And then from Charity, she says, I'm like, Leia. I don't remember a lot of the details, but while I can't remember the events, I recall all the feels. So I remember how each character made me feel, even if I can't remember exactly why. When I saw Billy this season, I was giddy, but I forgot how awful he was at first. Then again, maybe he stays that way. Who knows? But all I know is I remember thinking he was A jerk and feeling bad for him. In episode eight this watch, I saw and understood even more about him. Max never seemed afraid of Billy. More acquiescent Billy and Jonathan, the two older brothers in charge of their younger sibling. But one gets love and support, a bit of tough love. One gets held accountable for every decision their sister by marriage makes. And when she does something wrong, Billy gets verbally slash physically abused, which results in resentment towards Max. Still not okay or excusable. But on a human level when dealing with teenage emotions, it's understandable. I don't want to give spoilers, but I know how I felt with what's to come for him in the future. So I'm not looking forward to feeling that again, especially since I have no idea what the events are that actually happen. It was nice to just enjoy Bob this time around. Truth be told, I thought he died in season three, so I was shocked all over again with that. Same, same. Yeah,
[00:40:26] Speaker B: so funny.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Nancy and Lucas still my number one badasses and best characters in the series. That didn't change for me from first watch. Just got more solidified this time around, I'd say as my son's favorite characters are Steve and Dustin. I'm looking forward to hearing your insights on them next season because I still don't get it. Nice to have you back, Charity.
[00:40:45] Speaker B: Yeah, Billy is a very interesting character for sure.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I do. I. I love the parallels between Billy and Jonathan. Right. You and I have talked about it like two older brothers and then that idea of like what parentification can do. But I also do think that, I do think that Billy, some of his motivations are from trying to protect Max, from warped sense of trying to protect Max probably put on him by his father and stuff and more. Honestly, I don't think it's the way I read it is I don't see Billy so much trying to protect Max as he's trying to protect himself. That's how I read it.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: Billy has a lot of pent up resentment.
[00:41:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: His situation. And he takes it out on Max, I think. And I don't think he doesn't care about her. I think he just views her as like something that oppresses him.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Well and he's thinking, I think the parents have used their relationship against Billy and so it's been the kind of thing where if Max is not in her room, if Max is missing, if Max this and that, Billy's the one that gets punished. So Billy's going to try and do things with Max as a Way to keep her in line ultimately as a form of self defense for himself against his father.
So, I mean, for me, it just was kind of hard. I know Dacre Montgomery's like, oh, he really loves Max and stuff. And I'm like, I don't see that I can. I can maybe at some point we can have more of that and maybe it's underneath there. But I just personally don't see as much the care for us.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: I think definitely in season three, there's not. We don't really see care.
You. You find out eventually that he's not himself behavior.
Sorry, I meant season two. Okay. Yeah, yeah. What I meant was in season two, you don't really see that Billy actually cares for Max, but you get like another layer for why he behaves the way that he behaves.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:42:36] Speaker B: But I don't think it really has anything to do with Max specifically, so.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:42:43] Speaker A: But I. I'm glad that's something. I'm looking forward to season three because I do think they pivot more to the relationship dynamic a little bit with. With Billy and Max because that's important, obviously, for season four and everything. So. Yeah.
And I mean, Billy's complex because at the end of the day, this is a teenager who's been abused. And yeah, he shouldn't be doing all that other stuff against Max. But you. There is a bit of, like, you can feel sympathy for him too, at the same time.
So. And then girl Steve and Dustin, one of the best parts, but I get it. That may not be everybody's cup of tea, but I totally agree with Nancy and Lucas.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: Little silly, goofy boys.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: They just. They're cute. They're so cute together.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: They're just cuties.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: They're also like the two guys that get the most done probably ever.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: And they talk about that genuinely in, like a really healthy way. And they're just really fun to watch.
So.
Yeah.
All right, so our next one is from Tony. Tony, he says, all right. And so this is. I had to write this down from a. He gave me a voice note, so I had to write from the transcript. It didn't always get it correct. So if anything sounds weird or it's a run on sentence blame.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: Because Tony doesn't know how to speak. That's why.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what it is.
[00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Tony doesn't.
[00:43:59] Speaker A: Tony just doesn't.
He just doesn't.
Yeah, he doesn't speak at all. You know that we have a whole podcast with him. Okay. He says. He says Obviously, I guessed it on the Lost Sister, not him throwing his credentials around like that, which I just absolutely loved. And I still don't understand the hatred around it. And I feel like watching it again, to be analytical, was really nice. Nice even, just in terms of seeing the different direction from the female director that. That directed it. But also, I thought it was really interesting towards the end of the season getting a peek into Billy's life. I think they're setting up an arc potentially where we'll be, maybe feel something for him. And even though his actions are inexcusable, there's an element of understanding that hurt people. Hurt people. And especially as someone who grew up not being bullied by my family, but being bullied by people that call you gay and stuff when you're trying to be a man, it's just really deeply personal. Obviously, Billy takes that to the extreme and ends up. Up Everyone ends up hurting everyone else around him. I love the introduction of Max. I think that we really needed a normal girl because obviously Elle is not normal. They play up more of Elle's masculine features in terms of her strength and punk style and her shaved head and all that. So I think Max was kind of a nice foil to the group because she represented maybe what Elle would be like if she grew up in the normal world, like, having that sort of edge and fighting against the patriarchy. In a way, I'm excited for season three, so.
Agreed. Agreed.
Yeah. The Lost Sister. I think I enjoyed it a little bit more this time around. I think it's just. Honestly, I think it's kind of boring.
I. I appreciate what it is, but it's okay.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: It's. It's an okay. It's not an episode that, like, deserves the hate that it gets. No, it's not, like, an excellent episode. But it's also not the worst episode.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: No, not by far. Not by far. There's worse people.
[00:45:37] Speaker B: I feel like it's the most interesting part about it is obviously, like, all the stuff with Elle, but it's also. It's interesting to talk about why it shouldn't be as hated as it is.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's so true.
[00:45:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah. The most interesting part about it is it's not as bad as everybody says it is.
It's funny going into the episode with.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: Makes sense. It's fine.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: It's fine. It's not amazing, but it's fine. Yeah.
[00:46:04] Speaker B: Like, it's fine. It's no, again, it's no provider.
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Let's see that accursed episode. Okay, so I talked about how there are many novels, many young adult novels that were written in conjunction with the series. There's a young adult novel that was written for Max in between season two and season three that talks about her life before she came to Hawkins and then also tells about the events of season two from her perspective.
So this is a synopsis from the Stranger Things Wiki. It's called Runaway Max and it's written by Brenna Yovanoff and it alternates between her perspective during the events of season two and her flashbacks to her life before her arrival in Hawkins. Indiana was released on June 4, 2019.
So the book opens with Max at the San Diego bus station. She's getting ready to run away because they're moving to Indiana, but a cop ends up finding her and brings her home.
Then the book flashes back to the from the past to the present and Max remembers that she initially was glad to have a family again after her dad divorced her mom and they moved to and then he moved to Los Angeles. Her stepdad, Neil Hargrove, seemed less embarrassing and prone to misfortune. Like the other men her mom dated, however, he was first seen losing his niceness. This is all written from Wiki. When Billy arrived late for their day at Fort Fun, they were supposed to go off and have fun and stuff. And Billy himself doesn't seem too interested in Max when they first meet. So some reviewers talked about how some events from the book don't quite line up with what we discover continuity wise in season three. So for instance, we find out in season three that Billy and Max have known each other since they were really little.
But then the book makes it seem as if Max and Billy had only met maybe a year or so before the events of season two of Stranger Things. So this is like. And a lot of people talked about like the weakness of these books is the fact that the writers can't really write a full arc for them. They have to leave it open ended because the show is still writing for the characters, which I think really hampers it. I'm kind of like write the books that maybe after the show is finished. But yeah, yeah, that's kind of a weakness of this book as well. So the book talks about an event that happens off screen early on in season two where Max and her family go to dinner. It's after her first day at school and her mom suggests Max join the volleyball team while they're out at this restaurant and Max is like, oh no, I don't want to. She kind of dismisses it and then her stepdad ends up being really cruel and tells her that she has to wait in the car while they all finish their meal. So they're all in the restaurant and Max gets sent to the car by herself. Well, apparently Billy comes out and joins her, and they have a nice talk where Billy tells her that his father is really cruel, that he, like, doesn't claim him as his father. And they have, like, this bonding moment.
And then. But then we also find out that Max would avoid Billy and his friends in LA because they would do, like, really horrible things, like set a dead cat on fire and stuff. Which I'm like, that's how serial killers start.
There's also a lot of darker aspects, such as Neil ends up beating Billy and, like, using his belt, and Max tries to step in and help him. And she holds a lot of resentment for her mom for not doing anything and just kind of being there.
But then there's another story where Billy gets his car taken away before they move to Hawkins because he refused to go to rotc. And then when he gets it back, he would work in the garage and smoke. And he ends up, like, offering Max a cigarette and stuff. And Susan finds out, gets really mad. And the book talks about how Susan's reaction was really extreme, and Max was like, that's really weird, and gets kind of taken aback. But then later on, Neil gets home and finds out, and Max realizes that Susan's reaction was so extreme because she was trying to protect Billy. And Max ends up realizing that her mom does care, and her mom is trying to help in her own ways, but she has to do it more subtly and less overt because her. Her mom's afraid of the father as well. I was like, oh, this is dark.
And so Max sees Billy's distrust of Lucas as an extension of Neil's own hatred of people that aren't white. And so it's very complex, apparently, according to a lot of reviews. Again, I haven't read this book, but a lot of people talked about how the book does a good job of not letting Billy off of the hook for the horrible things that he does, but also giving him some complexity and showing through Max's perspective. In her mind, she's watching Billy just kind of mimic the things that his dad is doing. And also there's a sense there that Max is maybe realizing that Billy is also in an trying to protect himself, but maybe possibly trying to protect Max by keeping her away from Lucas because he knows what his dad will do to Max. And Lucas not excusing his behavior. But it's just, it's very complex and there's a lot of different things. And obviously max is a 12 year old kid trying to come to terms with all of this stuff.
And then it's implied that Matt, that Billy blames Max for them being in Hawkins because of the family wanting distance from her dad and also because of a specific event. So Max had a friend named Nate that she used to go skateboard with. And then Billy ends up taunting him one time, calling him Max's boyfriend. Max gets upset. Nate tells Billy to leave them alone. Billy ends up breaking Nate's arm and they end up and then warns them all to keep their mouth shut. Max ends up telling her mom that Nate's arm got broken. She doesn't tell him why, so they have to call an ambulance.
And that night is the night that Neil and Susan decide to move to Hawkins. And Billy blames Max for telling them and that's why he's like, we had to move and all that stuff.
[00:51:42] Speaker B: Yeah, if it isn't the consequences of your actions.
[00:51:45] Speaker A: Yep, exactly. So that's when. That's what leads all this up to Max deciding to run away, which is the opening of the book. And we have the confirmation of Billy running over Max's skateboard. We had talked about her taping up her skateboard when Lucas came in and apparently Neil saw that Billy had broke Max's skateboard and then dismissed. It was like, well, you just have to ride with Billy then. And then Neil and Susan take off to go to a new mall that was opening up.
And Max is like talking to her mom and talks about how she wishes she could go to the mall and she could pick out her own stuff.
And then she was actually preparing to run away and go back to LA with her dad. That's why she was taping up her skateboard, because she was going to take it with her probably to the bus stop or wherever. And then that's when Lucas shows up. And then she becomes a part of the gang and decides not to run away because they embrace her and everything. Everything.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: So, yeah, the boys.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So not necessarily anything that's like groundbreaking, but it does flesh out some stuff with Billy and Max and gives us some like, interesting perspectives and stuff. And especially going into season three because that, that relationship is so convoluted and everything. So I don't know if anyone has read the book. Let me know what you guys think about it and stuff.
Yeah, I think from a lot of people's perspectives, this one was like, one of the best ones out of the series because it actually, like, dives into some pretty meaty stuff, so.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:53:20] Speaker A: Yup, yup. But anyway. All right, well, that's all I got.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Very good.
We covered everything, I think.
[00:53:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm very excited for season three.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: I think we're gonna have excited too. We've excited to, like, revisit, obviously, again. I don't remember too, too much, but I'm excited to, like, watch it. It seems like it's gonna be a good season. It.
[00:53:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's a very fun season at the very least. And it's a lot of people's favorite too, so. And we've got a couple of new guests that are going to be joining us. I'm very excited to, like, talk with them about it. And then we've got, of course, returning guests and yeah, it's just gonna be a really, really fun season. So.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:53:59] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, guys, well, thanks so much for sending in your stuff. Thanks so much for listening to our recap and then this whole season and everything.
I'm sad we won't get to see and talk to you guys until October, but I hope you guys have a great break. Don't forget to check out not our first podcast. And yeah, we will see you guys in October just in time for spooky season.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: It'll be fun.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
Be so great. So. All right, guys, with that, thanks for listening and we will talk to you next time.
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