Show Notes
Babysitting, exorcisms, monstrous wombs, the snowball..it's the exciting season 2 finale! Join Sarah and Lea as they discuss Steve's new development, El's female rage, and whatever the hell that was between Billy and Karen!
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are talking about season two, chapter nine, the Gate, the finale of season two. It's just. I cannot tell you, Leia, how.
Just remind everybody who I'm talking to here.
In case you all forget, I can't tell you how nice it is to get to the end of a season and it's only nine episodes. Yeah, I just. I'm like, wow, we're at the end of the season.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Like, we've done two seasons, and I
[00:01:10] Speaker A: just always get really excited when we get towards the end of any season because the next one's coming up and it's always like, new vibe, new themes, sometimes new characters and stuff. And it's just nice to. I don't know. I'm spoiled now. I like going through the seasons faster. I like.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: Me too. 22 episode shows are just too much of a commitment, honestly.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: They're just a lot.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Thank God nobody's asking us to do, like, Turkish soap operas. Those ones are like, I want to
[00:01:37] Speaker A: do Turkish soap operas.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: 500 episodes a season.
They just never stop.
It's like every day there's an episode. Like, quite literally, they never take a break anyway.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: This episode, originally entitled the Lost Brother, was written and directed by the Duffers and aired obviously October 27, 2017.
Matt and Ross Duffer were nominated for this episode twice. One for outstanding directing for a drama series, and then also for writing for a drama series. They lost to both of those. But really great guys. Well done.
Anytime they say nominated, it means they didn't win. They just were nominated.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: But I love that sometimes they'll be like, end at award shows or something, or at, like, talk shows. Emmy nominated, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, that's kind of.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: But you lost second place.
That doesn't count. Loser.
It's like their version of a resume, essentially. I was nominated for something. It's like saying, well, I.
I was given a participation trophy.
I guess.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Not that bad. I guess it's nice. I mean, I feel like a lot of people never even get recognized, so it's kind of like a nice recognition type of thing.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah, you're totally right. I'm. I'm.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: But it's funny.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: But like, out of all, like, the thousands of actors and actresses, you were nominated, like, that's still a big Deal. But it's always funny to me because it's like, but you didn't win.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: But no, anyway. But you're still a fucking loser.
Yeah.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: Who is it? Like, Leonardo DiCaprio for being nominated for years but never having.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: And then he won for the Reverend Revenant or whatever. Did you see that movie? He did a very good job in that movie. Did you see it? I did, yeah.
He did a great job in that movie. But I never.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: A huge survivalist.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Done.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: I find them boring.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: I think what was impressive about that is just the physical stuff that he did. Like, it was a very physically demanding movie.
But I feel like he's done other movies where his acting was, like, a lot better, you know?
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Where he got to show off his, like, acting skills. I don't know. Anyway, he finally won.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: No, I agree. I mean, he's Leonardo DiCaprio. He's a fantastic actor.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he freaking is.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: Oh, I forgot to ask you. What do you think of this episode, Leia?
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: I was starting talking about it and like. Yeah, what did you think about it?
[00:04:14] Speaker B: I thought it was a good episode. I thought. I thought they wrapped things up really well.
There was action, you know, I thought every character had a moment, too.
Kind of like the last episode. I still like the last episode a little bit better because I just feel like it was more. I don't know, it was just better.
But this was a. It was a good season for finale. I'm excited to see what happens next season. Like, obviously, it kind of leaves on a bit of a cliffhanger that the. Whatever, the shadow monster is still alive and well. So, you know, everyone's been reunited now. Everyone's happy for three seconds, so we'll see what happens. But it was good. I thought it was. I thought it was better than the season one finale.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree with that.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: So. Yeah. What did you think?
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I think now that I've seen all of the season finales, I think this is possibly like, my favorite season finale of all five of them. And it was funny. We were talking to Grace. Shout out to Grace, one of our listeners and one of our Discord members who is watching the show for the first time. And she kind of watched ahead a little bit and saw the end of season two before we had finished filming and was coming back and talking with us about it. And she said that she feels like the finales of Stranger Things tend to be kind of underwhelming.
And I kind of don't disagree with that. I think it's so funny. There's some quotes that I'll read later, but the duffers felt like this movie was what, akin? I wouldn't say they. They felt like it was akin to a Marvel movie, but with the green screen effects of the scene with the Rift and stuff, they were like, this is what we would imagine a Marvel movie would be like on terms of visual effects. And I. I have mixed feelings about how the duffers really, really emphasize closure for things and more of the.
The focus on the kids relationships and the dynamics and all of that stuff, a lot more than they do sometimes the action of the show.
And I think that this episode was fantastic for Elle's development and it really, really, like, brought a lot of closure to a lot of different storylines. In all honesty, I think the show could have ended here without that final shot of the Upside down and probably been a fantastic, great duology. And we're done with the series from here on out. Obviously, we've talked about how the show shifts and changes and stuff, but the series, for me personally, generally feels underwhelming on the action side of things. There is always an episode or two that just very action packed, but they very rarely save it for the finale. And if they do end up up doing it for the finale, they cut it about halfway through the episode. So the second half of the episode can be more of like wrapping up the relationships stuff and the dynamics and stuff. And so what it often ends up feeling like for watchers is it can often be anticlimactic.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Like a rushed resolution, maybe?
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Yeah, like a rushed resolution. And then. And it feels sometimes like the pacing can sometimes be a little bit fast and then slow and then hot and then cold and stuff. And so I appreciate the duffers wanting to focus more on the relationship dynamics and the resolution of all of that stuff and more and more on the personal human side of things. The story, the heartfelt story, they've always emphasized that, and I appreciate that so much. But I think that sometimes there's a bit of a clunky landing and getting there. And so this episode, yeah, I think I maybe. And maybe we're just used to Buffy and Angel where the finales are always like really intense, a lot of action.
And I rarely feel like Buffy and Angel ever suffer for the interpersonal dynamics and the resolutions at the end of the season at the expense of the action. So I think it. Maybe it's a little bit taint, more tainted for me because. Or not tainted, but you know what I think are higher.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: You know, I think if we're comparing it to, like, Buffy finales, I feel like the Buffy finales and the angel finales, the.
The battle that they have, like, the final battle that ends up happening.
It's been building all season, but it's very, like, personal.
The demons on that show are very, very personal.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: So it feels cathartic on both a personal level and also from a adrenaline
[00:08:39] Speaker B: rush level, which, like, this one should feel personal because we're watching Will be, like, possessed and whatever. We've seen 11 go through hell, so I feel like it should feel personal.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Mm.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: But I feel like, I don't know, maybe it's because Will was kind of out of it this episode. Like, he wasn't really a part of the battle. Part of it. I don't know. Yeah, I get what you mean, but I think it's.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: It's.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: That's the difference. Like, I feel like Buffy finales are very, like, you know, there's so much metaphor.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: So I think when something actually happens, you feel like we understand that what's happening on screen is not just happening physically and literally. There's also an emotional closure that's happening, too, which is technically happening here with Elle, like you're saying. I think the problem is, is because the Mind Flayer has almost no connection to Elle. It's with Will. And then also, I hate to say it, but I think maybe if Brenner had been there and she'd had to have a showdown with Brenner, we maybe would have felt more closure. I think it's because all of this stuff happening and El having to close the rift against the. The. The shadow monster, it just felt like it was. There was just a disconnect.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: It kind of felt like she reunited with Adam. Mike. Oh, yeah, Adam.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: You know, like, Buffy's going against Adam, and in season four, and we're going.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Kay.
[00:10:02] Speaker A: But, like, who cares?
We don't care.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I also do think that Elle has been so, like, not present this entire season that it wasn't really surprising that there wasn't some type of cathartic moment for her. Like, I feel like she was supposed to have that in episode seven, maybe, and then now she's back with the gang. Yeah. I don't know. It just didn't feel like Ella's the main character this season.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think this is something I'm going to talk about as we continue on this series. I'm not trying to give spoilers away, but, like, I just need to speak my truth right now.
One of the hardest parts for the rest of the series, for me, is how they kind of Nerf 11's powers. They really, really, really try not to over utilize it, but unfortunately, they kind of go the other extreme where they end up kind of downplaying her a lot and not. And putting her in situations where she's not around to use her powers, because they obviously don't want to just keep relying on that. But because of it, like, I just want to see the girl, like, go out, go at it and just like. Like, what she did at the end of season one when she was taking out all of Brenner's people felt like that was so cool. And I wanted. I think I wanted to see her go up against. Against a bunch of demodogs and just fling them around. And so I think that didn't happen.
And I don't know, I just kind of was like, the most we saw her do was blow out a bunch of windows and move a train a little bit this season, and I'm like, no, I really want. I really want to see you, like, use your power. But, like.
Well, anyway, apart from all the grapes, it was a great episode.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I thought, like, so many characters had really great moments and so many characters. Like, we were. We were texting earlier about how Mike is just like, Mike.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Mike is just, you know.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Yes, Mike is just Mike, you know, but also, like, Steve had a lot of really great moments. Max had great moments. We got to see Karen, my queen, looking sexy as hell.
[00:12:13] Speaker A: Oh, I can't wait to talk about that scene.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yes. The thing is, is this episode had just so many good moments, and I absolutely. My favorite sequence for the entire series is literally Steve babysitting the kids from the moment that everybody leaves until they get into the tunnels is, like, my favorite thing. I die laughing every time. And I go back and just rewatch it because the dynamics are just so funny and. And Steve, Joe Keery is just an absolute comedic genius, and he gels so well with the kids and stuff. But anyway, okay, let's talk about the show.
So this is the final episode in which Paul Reiser is listed as part of the main cast. In season two, this is a final episode that Priya Ferguson is not.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Who's Paul Reiser?
[00:12:58] Speaker A: He's Dr. Owens.
[00:12:59] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Okay, okay.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: And then this is the final episode in which Priya Ferguson is not listed as part of the main cast anymore. So your fave is coming around. That's a Erica, by the way.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Erica. Yeah.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: She's gonna be a Main. Main cast member next season.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: What a queen.
Yeah.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Which is so fun. And then one of the things the Duffers wanted for the season finale was to pull off the storyline's climax of all the subplots simultaneously. A challenge they couldn't perfectly overcome the previous season, which I agree with. The hardest part for them was to build the story lines at almost the same pace. They said that's the final challenge. Getting them to crescendo at the same time and making it clear how one storyline is affecting another storyline. In the end, they managed to pull it off with a three part climax and ending it on a happier note with the snowball. So they see it as multiple climax. So one of the climaxes is obviously Elle closing the gate. Another one would be the snowball. Probably everybody coming together. And then the other climax was inside the cabin with Max and Steve and Billy.
The idea was to go back to the sweetness of the show and pay tribute to it. I would say more of a season one style photography. By the time we got to the end of season two, it had gotten pretty slick. We've been in all these tunnels. We've been in situations that seem very foreign and supernatural. Everyone wanted the Snowball dance to feel like it was made by high school and middle school kids, to really have that sense of innocence to it. And that's Terry Ives, cinematographer or not. Terry Eyes. I don't remember. Whispers name. Terry Ives is elsewhere. I was gonna say it's Terry cinematographer. You're like terr.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: She planned the ball. Nice.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah. No, that's Tim Ives, cinematographer.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Tim. My near.
[00:14:44] Speaker A: Tim Minier. Yeah. But, yeah, like I was saying earlier, I just. I think the Duffers. And there are. There are good things and bad things about this. Right. So this isn't all a negative thing, but there are. The Duffers are very focused on their characters, first and foremost. Then I. I mean, I think about the monster episode where El does that really cool little head thing and rescues Mike and ends up breaking the arm of the bullies and, you know, has says go. And it's like this really cool moment, and then it's the kids hugging at the very end and the Duffers talking about how they didn't like the cgi. But the thing that everybody remembers, nobody remembers the green screen. Everybody remembers the hug. And so I think that the Duffers really use that sort of situation as their thesis for. For all of these season finales where, yeah, there's going to be cool stuff that happens, but what really matters to them is how we're going to resolve each of the relational aspects and the dynamics and stuff. And, you know, I can't be mad about that at the end of the day because, like, the stories are about these characters. Like, we watch the show for the characters. You know, I think the thing that hampers them the most is the fact that a lot of people watch Stranger Things because they want to solve the mystery. They want to know why things are happening. And I think. And they don't care as much about the characters. And that's where we start getting into the complaints from the fandom about certain aspects.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Conformity, gates.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Yes, that again.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Yep. Totally still.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Right. And I think people are. People like the wanting to solve it figure out mystery and stuff. And the Duffers have been very, very clear, like, extremely clear, that that does not matter as much to them. That is literally just a conduit for telling these stories that they want to tell.
[00:16:25] Speaker B: It's interesting because the way people talk about the show online, you think that.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: You think it's a completely different show.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: It's a completely different show. Literally, like, this show is about the plot and, like, continuity and all of these things that people, like, pay such close attention to and point out. But it's like, you know, when season five was airing, they were like, oh, they never told us who it was that opened the door when Will got taken. And this. There was just like, like, so many things. And I'm like, does it matter?
Can't you assume?
[00:17:02] Speaker A: I think it does.
And like, and I would argue too, like, you do have to, like, resolve some loose ends. And I do think the Duffers do leave some pretty big plot holes that they don't resolve.
And that's my big gripe with their way of doing shows. But at the end of the day, you also have to be like, okay, what are they prioritizing? What have they always said that they're going to make their goal for each season? It's always been the characters. And so, I mean, they announced we're totally getting a spoiler territory. But they announced that they were going to have a 45 minute epilogue in the season finale that was going to be a resolving of all the characters and stuff. And so, so many people were shocked when we got through. I'm talking about the season five finale. When we got through half of the season five finale and all of the big stuff was done, and they were like, oh, my gosh, like, we still have 45 minutes. And it's like, well, yeah, the Duffers have always said their characters matter a lot to them. So I think it's just. It's about managing your own expectations and, you know, still hold people to a high bar and standard of storytelling and make sure that they're not just being lazy with it, but also recognize what's important to them too. So anyway, I'm getting really preachy this episode. Moving on at the buyers, we're opening up on the Broken window and of course, the reunion between Mike and Elle. They're embracing, reunited after almost a year. Everyone's watching this. You, Max, being like, is that. L.
Honestly, I don't even know why she even asked. Like, come on, girl. Like, do you think Mike's gonna be embracing any girl other than 11?
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Do you think Mike literally knows anyone other than 11? That's the only person that he knows
[00:18:43] Speaker A: because he was so worried he was going to sully the memory of 11 and he thought she was dead.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: So the way he's sobbing, too, this entire episode, I'm just like, just please remember, Leia, that Mike is a child.
Leia, please, please just remember Mike is a child. He's a kid. It's okay for him to act like this.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it's okay for him to have these big emotions.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: It's fine. It's fine.
[00:19:07] Speaker A: It's very 13 year old esque. You know, everything feels so big and so important. I mean, that's not to say if like, my boyfriend or like, Andrew, now, I thought he was dead.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Okay, but, like, mind you, Mike only knew 11 for like a week, six days.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's like, so. It's like some of these people on Love island over here thinking they're making an actual.
Anyway, all right, so Mike's like, I called you every night. Reassures her that he never gave up on her. He's like, I was faithful, Elle Love and I was faithful. I promise.
He's like, I didn't even say. You were laughing this entire time.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: No, literally, he didn't.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Eleven tells him that she heard him. Mike's like, why didn't you tell me? Hop steps in. He's like, okay, all right. He's like, I wouldn't let her. And then he's like, what the hell is this? Where have you been till 11? But you can, like, tell that it's in, like, all in love. Like, she bites back. Like, what the hell is this? And then they, like, hug, and it's just such a cute dynamic. And Mike is pissed. He wants to be the only man in her life.
Max Hopper is like, you've Been hiding her this whole time. And Hopper grabs him by the collar and is like, let's talk alone. So they go into a bedroom. I was like. Like, I didn't even know Hop knew Mike's name. Like, he just knows. Yeah, yeah, the random kid that was talking about Lord of the Rings the season prior.
So then Mike's just, like, shouting at Hopper, lashing out at him. Apparently, Finn actually was, like, hitting David harbor as hard as he could here, which is kind of funny. And then Hop tries to explain his reasoning. Mike's like, I don't understand. Hop's like, well, that's fine, but just don't take it out on L. And. And blame her. And Mike's like, I don't blame her. I blame you. And Hops like, fine. I can live with that.
This man could not care less.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: I don't give a fuck.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Like, he's like, whatever. He's like, mind you, I barely know you, you small child. Mike's, like, yelling and punching and hitting him, and then Hopper kind of. I think he sees what this actually is, and then he just lets him break down and hugs him. And I appreciate that he sees the moment for what it is and is reassuring him and says that he's sorry.
I just. Okay.
I don't think how the Duffers did Mike this season was very well done. I don't know if that's a combination of the storytelling or the acting. I think.
I think I sometimes struggle with Finn's acting, and I think part of that is because I think Finn himself was struggling with how he was supposed to act as Mike, and so it was a little harder for him to get there. But I also just don't think there was enough emphasis on how much Mike was struggling this season and how much PTSD he had from Elle's death. Like, I know they mentioned it a few times, but I. I find that I struggle to connect with him this season, and I think that that kind of makes this scene feel out of place and odd for me. I don't know. Did. Did you. Did you like this scene? Did you think it was.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like he's been so whiny about this the entire season that it, like, made sense. Yeah. Like, he's a child.
Like, I feel like it made sense for him to lash out like this. Like, he's been kind of separated from the boys, it feels like, and kind of, like, sulking. So I don't know. It kind of made sense to me that he would react so strongly because he's been such a whiny little Winerson all season.
Where's my whiner?
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Not Mike.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: I'm so mean. He's just a kid. Oh, my God.
[00:22:44] Speaker A: But I know he is just a kid. I just. I've struggled to connect with Mike this season versus. I feel like season one. I really love how he was done, and I love his storyline. And I.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Well, I think that just like I think I said this last week, but I feel like Mike in season one was really interesting because he was paired up with Elle, and she was, like, discovering friendship and, like, being a girl and all this stuff for the first time. And I found their dynamic to be really endearing. But then this season, he's just kind of been.
If he's not talking about El, he's moping about El.
And then if he's not doing that, he's, like, fighting with the other boys, so.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: So, yeah, he was really sweet with Will, and I like that they paired them up together, but they just. He just didn't have much to do.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: But, yeah.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: As told by Matt Duffer, the reunion of Mike and 11 at the beginning was Finn and Millie's first scene together this season, and they did a great job of making their.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Yeah. For Mike and Hopper's confrontation, the Duffers wanted their performance to be akin to an argument scene of Almost Famous. And Matt liked the end result, saying that Finn was really hitting him as hard as he could. So, yeah.
So then 11 hugs Dustin Lucas and is icked out by Dustin's purring, which is hilarious. He's still doing this. Max approaches, offers a greeting and a friendly handshake, and Elle pointedly ignores her and walks past. And I'm like, why is everyone so mean?
[00:24:12] Speaker B: They're so mean to her.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: They really are. And you can tell this girl just wants to belong.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Like, she literally just wants. She likes these people.
She, like, wants to hang out with them. And they're just like.
They're just like, no.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: I mean, at least I know these
[00:24:32] Speaker A: are children, but it's just, like, struggling. They're so mean.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: So she goes straight to hug Joyce and then asks to go to Will's room. He's still unconscious. Joyce tells her he's not doing well, and Al's like, I know. And then Joyce shows her Will's message of closed gate and is like, you open it. Do you think you can close it? We don't get an answer. But then we cut to a shot of the ginormous rift surrounded with an army of demodogs and Again, I think this would have been so cool. Going back to what we talked about in episode seven with some of the Reddit comments where people were saying that they felt like it would have been really cool if they hadn't shown where Elle was at until maybe like later on.
Because it would have been kind of neat to have Albie over here, like, yeah, I know about all this stuff. And we're like, how does she know? Like, what in the world? And then we find out later with a later episode, like, what was all happening while she was gone. I think that would have been kind of cool. But now we're at the Wheeler house and Karen is having a little self care time, soaking in a candlelit tub, listening to the Way We Were by Barbra Streisand, reading some smut. I was like, this is Leia with her angel fan fictions. I love her bath.
Also hilarious. The guy on the front page looks just like Billy. Oh my God. Lyrics for this song, which I've never heard before. I know someone shoot me are very interesting. It's memories Light the corner of my mind Misty watercolor memories of the way we were Scattered pictures of the smiles we left behind Smiles we gave to one another for the way we were can it be that it was all so simple then or it has time rewritten every line if we had the chance to do it all again Tell me would we? Could we?
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Is this supposed to be about Ted?
[00:26:09] Speaker A: I think it's supposed to be about Ted. So the book that Karen Wheeler re is reading in the Bath is a real romance novel from 1983 titled Heart of Thunder by Johanna Lindsay. The COVID was slightly altered with new art to resemble Kara and Dacre, their characters on the show. And despite the book's plot being a western romance, the shirtless man on the COVID of Karen's copy is gripping a broadsword, which is just hysterical. So I looked up the synopsis for this book because I was curious, you know, just, you know, some light reading.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah, Here.
[00:26:41] Speaker A: Here's the synopsis that. Mind you, this book was written in 1983, so no man had ever dared to force his attentions on such stunning, fiery Samantha Kingsley. Until Hank Chavez, the rough, hewn, insolvent outlaw aroused the spirited hellions wrath and her passion. Samantha vowed to slaughter the impulsive rogue if her father didn't do it first. For there's only one thing Chavez wants more than the Kingsley sprawling Mexican to ignite in Samantha's breast and to take the Tempest.
There's not only one thing Chavez wants more than the Kingsley, sprawling Mexican. I think they skipped a word. I think it's Mexican ranch or something. And to take the tempestuous beauty in bold, rapturous conquest.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: Whoa, whoa.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Okay, I gotta say, here's the thing.
As someone who reads a lot. So first of all, all the reviews, everyone was like, this is the worst book I've ever read. Everybody hated it.
I saw one with. I saw one review. It was like, just me. Just me.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: I hate you. I hate you.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Me. The entire book, apparently.
So I have to say, though, I read a lot of modern books, and I'm trying to go back and read a lot of books that were made not in the 2000s, but we've really lost the art of excellent verbiage. Because even this, as stupid as this is and as flowery and all that stuff, I mean, they're talking about, they said insolvent, aroused, hellion. But, like, there's words that they're using that I feel like we're just not using enough in our modern literature.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: You want to hear the funniest thing ever? Now that you say this. I literally was scrolling on TikTok today, and I came upon a video of a woman stitching another video. Somebody complained that it's ableist that authors use big words in books and that authors should use less complicated words as to not isolate. And, like, so that. Because some people can't read big words.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Oh, and apparently so bad.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So they're, like, demanding that authors stop using complicated words in their literature.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Because, listen, the English language is already really narrow when it comes to descriptive language. Like, I. I think about our words for love. We only have one word for it, versus so many other languages have multiple different words for different types of love.
Like, we just already have lost so much. Let's not take away more.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: I mean, growing up, though, like, the way that you learned new words was that you read books, and if you didn't know a word, you looked it up in the dictionary.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Like, you. You would literally go and find a dictionary, and we have, like, Internet now. You can look up anything. So it's just. It's just kind of crazy. Like, I don't know, we used to have to read in the summer so that we could, like, learn words and learn how to, like. Yeah, write and learn. You know what I mean? It's just. Yeah. It's just kind of crazy that we've gotten to this point.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: So then the doorbell rings, but, of course, Ted is conked out in the dark living room. So Karen throws On a robe. Goes to answer it. Lo and behold, it's Billy there with half his shirt unbuttoned.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: He looks like that guy from the novel 1,000,000%. Yep.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: He looks her up and down, turns on the charm, and we're all screaming, don't do it, Karen.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: He puts. And she looks so hot.
She's wearing, like, a robe and her boobies are out and her hair is
[00:30:29] Speaker A: like that messy that. That messy bun you can only achieve when you're not actually trying that. You just, like, throw up.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: I'm also like, don't do it, Karen. He's gonna throw off your PH balance and you're gonna get infection with all the cologne on his junk.
Also, he's a misogynist bigot. But, you know, he's like, I. I didn't realize Nancy had a sister. Oldest trick in the book. She knows it, we know it. It still works. She's like, oh, I'm Nancy's mother. And he doesn't look shocked and is like.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: He's like, mommy.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
Notice we don't know where his
[00:31:08] Speaker B: interesting.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: They introduce themselves, sparks are flying. Karen thinks he's there for Nancy, but nope, she's not his type. And he says he's looking for Max. Goes by Maxine, which is hilarious because Max has repeatedly said she goes by Max, not Maxine. And he said, I'm just worried sick. And he's just so smooth. He leans up against the door frame. My Karen. The saxophones are getting louder. She just hears smooth jazz, though.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: Karen just literally, literally doesn't even know this child that he's looking for. Lets this man into her house, gives the location of her child and his friends. That's true to this strange man,
[00:31:50] Speaker A: mind you. Ted is 10ft away, and she's just flirting shamelessly with this guy.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: Who fucking cares about Ted, man?
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Well, nobody actually does.
I Do Believe I Fell In Love by Donna Summer is playing and she's inviting him in, writes the address. He's like, you're a real lifesaver. Bites into what sounds like the stalest cookie known to mankind, which was apparently improvised by Dacre Montgomery, who said he thought it would be cheeky.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Well, he was definitely cheeky.
Yeah.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: He says he'll see her later before walking out. And Karen just blatantly stares at his ass and it goes.
And not about the cookies, mind you.
Reminder for the audience. He puts cologne on his junk and screams at little children and calls women so. And also, he's a minor. He's technically a minor.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: Yeah, he is.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Can we just say that, yeah, he is Karen girl. What are we doing? Stand up.
[00:32:41] Speaker B: I mean, she lives with Ted.
Come on.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: That's how bad their marriage is, though.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: That's how boring he is.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
All right. So when asked about what he wants to see for Billy in season three, Dacre Montgomery said that he would love to see Billy have a love interest in the third season sitting under a bed of stars on a football field with a girl. I think that would humanize him completely, which would make the sinister side even more scary. You're giving the love and passion an outlet in a girl and in a forum like that could be very beautiful. And then play on the juxtaposition of that against far more sinister things going on in the background. Then when asked if he thinks it's Karen, that could be that love interest, he says, I don't know. But knowing the Duffers, I think they might go against the grain. They've given audiences a taste of that, and it could now go somewhere else.
Cara is a lovely, lovely lady. We had so much fun shooting that scene. I don't know where it's going to go. It's interesting now that it's in play, but I don't think so. I think it'll be something else.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: So perhaps it'll be Steve.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: He mentioned he was very pointed. He mentioned like three or four times in that interview. Girl, Girl. And he said it. He goes, I want it to be a girl, like, not a guy. So I'm like, interesting.
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Yeah, amigo.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: All right. So then at the buyers, the group is discussing what to do with the rift. Hopper lays out all the obstacles. The Demodogs is dustin helpfully out, like 15 times. He thinks he's so cool. Demodogs. Mike points out that Will is still a part of the hive mind, and if they kill or hurt any part of the Mind Flayer's army, that it will affect Will, too. Joyce remembers Will saying the Mind Flayer likes it cold and concludes that they need to overheat him to get it out. Hopper tells them to use his cabin so Will cannot draw the Demodogs to them. By recognizing where he is. He gives Jonathan directions while they load Will into the car. They agree to communicate by walkie talkie and to tell Hopper when the Shadow Monster is out of Will. Meanwhile, Nancy and Steve are rummaging through some stuff. Steve tells Nancy to go with them to support Jonathan, and when she objects, he tells her that he may be a pretty shitty boyfriend, but that it turns out that he's Actually, a damn good babysitter. He finds what he's looking for and hands it to her. And she looks at him sadly, and he says, it's okay, Nance. It's okay. I think it's another heater. And then he walks away, letting her go be with Jonathan. Okay, thoughts on this scene?
[00:34:55] Speaker B: What a good guy. Genuinely. He's just such a good man.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: He's a good man, Savannah.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: He's a good man, Savannah. Yeah. I thought this was a really sweet scene. I was, like, expecting him to lash out more.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: I think you would think that episode,
[00:35:11] Speaker B: you would think that he would, but I think he just. I think he sees it, like, he sees that Nancy is drawn to Jonathan and there's something going on between them, and he kind of realizes that she doesn't love him and she never will.
And I think that's really mature of him, you know? And I agree. I think he. He's a damn great babysitter.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: You and I were texting back and forth, and we were talking about how, like, in my opinion, Nancy is completely valid for trying to figure out what she wants out of life. Life. And realizing that what maybe she thought she wanted isn't actually what she does want. And when you're a teen and when you're a child, like, things get messy. You don't know who you are. You're trying to figure all of that out. And so sometimes you're going to make mistakes, and sometimes people get hurt. And I. I. So I don't fault her in trying to figure out what she wants out of life. I do think that she was a little careless with Steve.
It was really big of him to not be like, hey, you did hurt me, and stuff, especially because this felt more like a breakup scene to me than what we thought happened in the alleyway. I'm wondering if the Duffers did that intentionally. So, like, when I was first watching this, I was like, ugh, I hate that he thinks them breaking up is because he wasn't good enough for her, because that's just not, in my opinion.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: What.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: What, like, was the reason for them breaking up? It's not because he was a bad boyfriend. It's just they didn't work out together, and that's okay, and it's not anyone's faul. But then I realized that I think this moment is also supposed to be Steve continuing to reflect and atone for his actions last season when him and Nancy were still together. Like the fact that we're at the Byers again, where he pulled up to apologize for calling her a slut and accusing her and Jonathan of sleeping together. I think this moment is supposed to be a huge growth moment for Steve because instead of accusing Nancy and Jonathan of sleeping together like he did last season, even though now they technically have, he respects her decision, trusts that she had her reasons, and also recognizes that Jonathan gives her something that he can't and hasn't been able to. And I think this moan is supposed to be a direct contrast to everything horrible that he did last season, showing how he's matured and he's grown up and that even though his feelings haven't changed, like, this moment, that this moment is for Steve's character, not Nancy's. Nancy's already had her development.
This moment is. Is Steve letting go and also showing that, like, he's changed and grown and is not the same person he was last season. So I really appreciated that.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. This is. That's definitely true. I think it's Steve letting go and, like, kind of getting to that place where he's like, okay, like, this is not the relationship for me. But, yeah, who knows? Who knows if that'll.
That'll change later.
Yeah.
[00:38:08] Speaker A: I mean, he's still looking at her very longingly at the end of the season or the end of the episode. I think he cares about her and loves her and would take her back in a heartbeat, but I think he. He's realizing he has to let her follow her heart and figure out what she wants. And for sure, I love that.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: It's like.
It's like the opposite of, like, trying to wear a girl down. Like, you. You love her, you want to be with her, but the. That, you know, that's not what she wants, so you're just going to let her do her own thing, and that's okay. And I love that it's very mature for a teenage character.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: And this, like, this is him contrasting all that stuff we were talking about with his dad and everything. I feel like this is just Steve being his best and being everything that he wants to be and that he was trying to work against last season. And I just. I think that's a great. Great. Again, this season is just. It's a great bookend for season one. Like, these two seasons just work so well together.
Then we have a moment with our other couples, Mike and Elle. He's in tears. It's afraid he's gonna lose her again. She says he won't. She promises, okay, what do you want of that? Hopper interrupted that intentionally when they went in to go. Kiss. He's like, time to go.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: He's like, no more please, Joyce, let's go.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: Come on, Joyce. That's what it was like in season one when, you know, Joyce was talking to Jonathan. He's like, let's go, Joyce.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: Now he's. That's all he did in season one. He just yelled for Joyce to hurry up. It's like, let's go.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, that's intentional. He's gonna be a problem if Elle survives this. We get a shot of Jonathan, Will, Nancy and Joyce taking off for the cabin, Hoppin Ellie for the Rift and mom Steve with the kids staying back at the byers house.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: What a good mom.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: In the car. We get a moment between hopping out. I loved this scene. This scene ended up being one of my favorite favorites of this episode. I always forget about it and I just think it is their relationship. I'm a sucker for any father daughter relationships like found family, like Giles and Buffy, Hopper and Elle. Yeah, same the daddy issues in me.
He's like, so we're just not going to talk about why you look like some kind of MTV punk?
[00:40:19] Speaker B: MTV punk.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: He's not wrong. He says, I'm not mad kid. I just want to know where you've been. That's all. She tells him that she went to see her mom. And he's like, okay. And you could tell he's trying not to freak out. She tells him she left with a trucker. And he's like, breathe, breathe. He's still confused about where she got all the clothes, but she interrupts and tells him that she shouldn't have left. And he stops her and says, no, no, no, that's not all on you. I should have been there. I should never have lied to you about your mom or about when you could leave. A lot of things I shouldn't have done. Sometimes I feel like I'm just some kind of black hole. A thing that sucks everything towards it and destroys it.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: It.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: He mentions how Sarah loved space and had a book about it. And Elle doesn't know who Sarah is. And you can see the moment Hopper realizes he's never told her. He's like, she's my little girl. And then tells Elle that she's not alive anymore. I lit like started tearing up right now. He says the black hole got her. We see everything sink in for Elle as Hop tells her that he's been scared that the black hole would take her too. And that's why he gets so mad. And then he apologizes for Everything and how he can be so. And then Elsa is stupid, and he agrees. They both tear up. But Elle reaches for his hand and says that she's been stupid, too, and hops like, I guess we broke our rule. Oh, my gosh. It's so well written.
And it's also just, like, beautiful, too, because, like, we. This ties up again. Hopper's arc from season one, where he was talking to that one hoe that he was sleeping with. Was it Sandra?
Yeah. Where he was talking about. He feels like everything he touches dies. Everything he touches is. Gets ruined and stuff. And I think, you know, them talking about black holes and everything, it's no coincidence because we have the rift. And so when you have Elle and Hopper there in.
In the cage, and she's closing up the rift and everything, I think it's also symbolically supposed to be Hopper is sealing up that giant hole that opened up when Sarah died. And not that Elle's gonna ever fully replace that and stuff, but I think Elle fits into that space really well as his adopted daughter, you know?
And we've said for seasons now, like, Hopper's just been trying to fill that hole with girls and cigarette and work and booze and all of that stuff. And, yeah, this feels like a real good closure.
[00:42:39] Speaker B: This feels like a breakthrough.
[00:42:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: And then they say, bitching. That was so cute.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: You could see him, like, being, like, sure, yeah, whatever.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: Okay, sure.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: Bitching.
[00:42:50] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: He's biting his tongue in every single scene. He's, like, trying so hard to be supportive and, like, turn over a new leaf.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: I love that, though.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yeah. It's growth. So then at the buyers, Dustin has pulled everything out of Joyce's fridge. This little kid, this punk Dustin. I would be so mad if I came back and there's a demodog stuffed in my fridge and all my food was bad. He's, like, trying to make way for the body of the dead demodog that he and Steve have wrapped in a blanket. Steve's like, is this really necessary? And Dustin's like, yes, it absolutely is. This is a groundbreaking discovery. We can't just bury it like some common mammal.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Okay. I mean, you should probably burn it if anything.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: It's not a dog. Steve's like, okay, but you're explaining this to Mrs. Byers. Okay.
To be honest, though, they're probably gonna have to explain it to Jonathan because we all know he's the cook of the family.
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Who's Jonathan?
[00:43:46] Speaker A: Joyce will come back and be like, jonathan, go clean that up.
So they get in the fridge, we see that Steve is putting everyone to work. Lucas and Max are sweeping up glass. Mike is pacing. He's stressed. Everyone's trying to reassure him. Mom. Steve comes out with his dish rag to give a lecture on listening to your coach and being a part of a team. Mike has had it with the coach analogies. He's like, this is the second one I've received this season. I already got this from my. My other dad, and I am just done with this. We're not even in the game. And Steve's, like, trying to finish his point, then realizes Mike's right. Dustin's like, actually, there's something that we can do. Then basically comes up with the same plan Nancy and Jonathan did at the end of the previous season and suggests they go to the tunnels and learn lure the demodogs away from the lab. Steve hates this idea and is like,
[00:44:31] Speaker B: yeah, and then we all die.
[00:44:33] Speaker A: That's one point of view.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: No, that's not a point of view, man. That's a fact.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: Mike's like, let's go to the hub from where the chief dug his hole and set this on fire. Steve's like, oh, yeah, that's a no. Of course all the kids love this and start to go all in on the plan. But Steve's like, absolutely not. I promise I'd keep you safe. And we're staying here on the bench and waiting for the starting team to do their job. Does everybody understand that? Mike's like, this isn't a stupid sports game. Steve grabs the dish towel from off his shoulder and pulls out the mom finger and is like, I said, does everybody understand that I need a yes? Then we hear a familiar engine revving.
Max is like, oh, shoot. He can't know I'm here. And then immediately runs to the window, and I'm like, girl, go hide. He like, what's Billy gonna do if you're like, not in the house? Like, whatever. Anyway, they just handled this so poorly. I do like that she looks at Lucas and is like, he's gonna kill us. Like, she's also afraid for Lucas.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: We see Steve thinking quickly, Then cut to Billy coming out of his car looking extremely pleased to Steve. Steve see Steve standing on the steps waiting for him.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: Oh, his boyfriend.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: Am I dreaming, or is that you, Harrington?
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's me. Don't cream your pants.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: Is Steve aware then?
Subject has become aware.
Seems like, calm it down.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Everybody was, like, way too excited to see Steve. Honestly.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: He literally was. He was like.
And then, like, Billy responds to this by starting to take off Clothing. He starts to take his jacket. His shirt's already half unbuttoned, you know, in anticipation. They approach each other. As Billy asks what he's doing there, Steve's like, I could ask you the same thing. Billy says he's looking for a sister. And Steve's like, I don't know her. Billy's like, small redhead, bit of a. Steve's like, doesn't ring a bell. Sorry, buddy. Billy looks ready to blow his load or his temper, I don't know which at this point. And it's like, you know, this whole thing is weird to me because my 13 year old sister goes missing all day and I find her with you at a stranger's house and you lie to me about it. And I'm like, billy, you're also a child and you were being hit on by a woman that you've just met at her house too. Like pot calling the kettle black here. Like, okay.
Steve is like, man, were you dropped too much as a child or what? Billy literally licks it. His lips, like, this is foreplay for him.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: It is.
[00:46:58] Speaker A: Steve reiterates that Max isn't there. Billy points at the front window and goes, then who's that? We turn with Steve and see that
[00:47:05] Speaker B: all four kids, they're so stupid, ducking down.
[00:47:09] Speaker A: And you could just see Steve being like.
And he turns around, he's like, listen, man. And Billy just pushes him down, kicks him, then enters the house. He approaches the kids and hones in on Lucas. Instantly he's like, I thought I told you to stay away from him. Max, you disobeyed me. You know what happens? I break things.
[00:47:25] Speaker B: Things.
[00:47:26] Speaker A: He picks Lucas up and then pushes him roughly against the wall. This is just really disturbing. And into Joyce's china. He's threatening him, tells him to stay away from her. Lucas yells for him to get off of him, kicks him in the nuts. Billy's about to go after him again, but Steve comes in and punches Billy in the face. Dustin looks so amazed as all the kids hug Lucas and comfort him. Dustin's like, my hero. Billy gets up cackling and is like, looks like you got some fire in you after all. Like, he's just, just loving this. He's like, I touched him. I touched him.
I've been waiting to meet this king Steve everyone has been telling me so much about. Steve pushes him away and tells him to get out, but Billy swings at him again, only for Steve to duck. Billy slugs him three more times or, sorry, not Billy. Steve slugs him three more times. Much to Dustin's delight, Steve is winning this. But Billy ends up playing dirty and smashes a dish over Steve's head and begins to beat him up, telling him that no one tells him what to do. He's just taking out all that rage from his father.
And that scene that we saw last episode out on Steve right now. And then he just completely knocks Steve out and then just begins to hammer and beat at his unconscious face.
Apparently, when Dacre Montgomery broke the plate over Steve's head in their fire, Joe Curie's head, it ended up leaving Joe Curie dazed. And that's the take that they ended up using in the scene, largely because they didn't want to risk doing it again. I wondered because in the scene you can hear Joe Keery yell out boat when he got hit. And it just sounded extra realistic.
[00:48:56] Speaker B: Like, real. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
[00:48:59] Speaker A: So I'm glad they didn't do it again. I'm glad they nailed it the first scene, because that would have stunk.
So then Max has had it. She grabs the syringe. I love this moment. It's all slow motion. She grabs the syringe they used to knock Will out, marches over to Billy, stabs it in his neck. He falls to the ground all woozy, still laughing. So Max grabs the nail bat, holds it up threateningly and is like, from
[00:49:21] Speaker B: here on out, you leave me and my friends alone. Do you understand?
[00:49:24] Speaker A: He says, screw you. So she slams the bat between his legs, narrowly missing everything.
You understand?
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Say it.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: The boys are terrified of Max now. She gets up, grabs Billy's keys, and goes, let's get out of here.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Oh, my God, what a badass. I love it. I love that she's standing up for herself. Yep. Finally.
[00:49:45] Speaker A: Yeah, like, everybody's down a lot.
[00:49:47] Speaker B: So mean to her.
[00:49:50] Speaker A: She's like, my bat. Now she goes after Elle.
Sadie Sink felt like this was a truly empowering moment for her character. She says she finally gets her revenge. The whole season. You just feel so bad for her. Like, oh, my gosh, he's so mean. And in the end, she's like, nope, not anymore. And Dacre says this. I kind of alluded to this last episode, but he talks about the billion Max dynamic and says, I do think he loves his little sister. He's extremely fond of her. I have a sister who's the same age difference between Sadie and myself. I think this dynamic that the stepmother and his biological father have, have from uprooting him from California and taking it to this town in the middle of Nowhere. I don't know. I think it's a thing like, I love my sister, but I hate where I am. That's what I'm talking about. How that insecurity comes out in anger towards his sister and lack of patience. I think the anger toward his sister is because he actually cares. That love and controlling behavior can actually come from caring. I think it's also about being threatened. Going back to the fear of emasculation. There's his anger towards Lucas. I don't think it's about race. It's the first fact that this kid who he sees in the background with Max, what's going on there? What's their dynamic? How does that dynamic affect Billy and Max's relationship? I think he feels constantly threatened. So. Yeah.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting because you see him, like, he's kind of calm at first. Like, he's kind of joking and bantering, and then he just snaps.
[00:51:07] Speaker A: He snaps so fast. It's actually really scary.
[00:51:10] Speaker B: Yeah. As soon as. Like, as soon as Steve tells him, like, what to do to get out, he immediately. And it's obviously, like a control thing, right?
[00:51:20] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Can't not be in control.
So I'm interested to see what's gonna happen because we don't see Billy at the end of the. This is the last time we see him in this episode.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Yeah. It'll be very, very interesting to kind of see where they're gonna go with him. Honestly, like, I. I know I rag on Billy a lot.
[00:51:40] Speaker B: It.
[00:51:40] Speaker A: But I'm very, very, very curious to see what they do with him next season.
But, I mean, it's just. It's interesting to also hear the way that Dacre is thinking through his character, talking about, you know, how he sees Max is his constant. There's another quote where he says he knows that, like, his parents will eventually pass away at some point, but for Billy and Max. And he relates to his own. He has a half sister as well as the same age as Max.
[00:52:07] Speaker B: Max.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: And he says he knows that Max is always going to be that one constant in his life, and so he wants to protect her. And he thinks it's coming out the wrong way, which I think adds a layer to Billy and to Daker's performance that I find very interesting. So.
All right. At the cabin, Joyce, Jonathan and Nancy are tying Will to a bed, rigging the cabin with lit fire and several heaters. Hopper and 11 arrive at the lab. L looks terrified. And I just didn't even realize it until, like, I went back and thought about It. But this is the first time Elle's been back at the lab since she escaped Brenner, so that makes so much sense. So I should be terrified right now. We're getting flashbacks of all her traumatic memories. Hop tells her to save her strength until they get to the rift and to let him do all the heavy lifting. Cut to Max. Oh, I love this sequence. This is like my favorite thing ever. Max is driving Billy's car to Hopper's dig site, just speeding down the road.
Steve comes to in the back seat and we see from his perspective. The first thing he sees is a gasoline canister in the arms of Mike, who's sitting next to him. And he's still out of it. He goes.
The look that Mike.
Ew, no.
And then he tries to touch his face, which has been clumsily patched up. The kids put band aids on. There's like a little tiny rainbow band aid in one spot and like a little flower in the other. They were like, trying to.
[00:53:29] Speaker B: And Dustin is icing his head. Yeah.
[00:53:32] Speaker A: And Dustin's like, hey, buddy,
[00:53:36] Speaker B: it's okay.
[00:53:36] Speaker A: You put up a good fight.
[00:53:38] Speaker B: You kicked your ass, but you put
[00:53:39] Speaker A: up a good fight, buddy.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: Okay, you're okay.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: And Steve's like, hearing Lucas give directions from the front seat and realizes with horror that a literal child Max is driving the car. They're going like 90 down the road. They're about to head to the Demodog infested tunnels to start a fire. He's starts freaking out. The boys are like, it's okay, she's totally driven before. And Mike's like, in a parking lot, but it's no big deal. Steve's like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And starts screaming as Max accelerates. Dustin's like, hey, they were going to leave you, but I told them you'd be cool, so be cool. Steve's panicking and Max like, everybody shut up. I'm trying to focus. She makes a quick left turn, knocks into something, and a bit of the bumper flies off. Everyone's screaming. Steve's holding on to Dustin for dear life. And it's absolute chaos. And. And I live for it every time.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: It's so funny.
[00:54:24] Speaker A: Most of that scene was actually improvised, specifically Steve calling Mike Nancy and then Dustin's response about Billy beating him. There's an interview with Gaten Matarazzo and he's talking about how that was just so fun to play and the. The duffers essentially let them just kind of improvise and go ham. And I think that's part of why it's so funny.
So we're now at the cabin. Will wakes up, begins shrieking to let him go. Says it hurts over and over. Nancy, Jonathan and Joyce all watch with fear. Super sweaty Nancy and Jonathan grab each other's hands as Joyce looks at Will, thinking about Bob and the life they could have had. She instantly turns the heat up higher and poor Jonathan's like, in tears and is like, mom. Joyce is like, no. And I was like, dang.
[00:55:05] Speaker B: She's like, shut the up, Jonathan.
[00:55:07] Speaker A: We're getting this thing out of my son. Charlie Heaton says that he was astonished by Schnapp's performance in those scenes. It was kind of terrifying. He would literally be convulsing on this table. It was so scary. This is no lie. What you see is what he was doing. It was shocking because of his age and he's a child and he strapped down. His performance was just so honest and so truthful. Then cut. And he'd be like, can I have tea?
[00:55:32] Speaker B: Yeah, he was really good, honestly.
He just looked unwell.
[00:55:37] Speaker A: He just looked unwell. He looked and yeah, yeah, it was
[00:55:43] Speaker B: like, it looks like a demon possession.
[00:55:45] Speaker A: Well, I can't imagine how much energy that would take out of you to try to do that. Take after take after take. Like, I, I would be exhausted.
So then we see the kids racing along in the car. Max makes an abrupt stop right in front of the hole. Steve's like, whoa, hello. Practically hyperventilating. Mike's like, incredible. And Max is like, told you, Zoomer. All the kids get out immediately, start suiting up to go down amongst the spores. We've got scarves and scuba gear and oven mitts, all while Steve's trying to keep from vomiting. He's like, stop. No, don't.
[00:56:16] Speaker B: What are you doing?
[00:56:17] Speaker A: No one's listening to him. They are a well oiled machine. Like, they just start just grabbing everything out. Dustin finally grabs Steve and says, hey, I get you're. That you're upset, you know, gentle parenting him again. But a party member requires assistance and it is our duty to provide that assistance. He pulls out the bat and some gear and is like, you promised Nancy you'd keep us safe, so keep us safe. And we see everyone jump into the tunnel. And then Steve takes charge, grabbing the mat and tells them to stay behind him.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: How does Steve not have brain damage right now?
[00:56:45] Speaker A: Yeah, Or a concussion at this point? Yeah, like, I don't know how he's
[00:56:50] Speaker B: still functioning and walking, but you know how he's standing.
[00:56:53] Speaker A: Property Master Rice says that it was scripted that they had snorkel masks on and was like, whatever they have needs to come from the buyer's house. They didn't stop off somewhere else to get more things. So I created a box. You don't actually see it, but when they're tipping everything out from the shed, it's there. It has flippers and has a series of snorkel masks and goggles in there, like from some trip to the beach. If you look at all the kids individually, Lucas has his bandana on. Dustin has a dish towel, and I think he has ladies gloves on. Then Max has some old ski gloves and a pair of safety goggles.
I love that. And yeah, the spores are actually made from dandelion seeds, which is so, so fun and so clever. In the lab, Hop ends up finding Dr. Owens in the stairwell with his leg tore up. Hop makes a tourniquet as Owen stares in shock. At 11, Hop explains that she's been staying with him for a year and that she's about to save them and asks if he can help her live a normal life if they survive, which Owens agrees to with just, you know, a little bit of pressure, literally. So in the tunnels, the kids arrive at the graveyard. Dustin's curiosity voyage leads him to getting shot in the face by a bunch of spores. And he absolutely loses it.
[00:57:58] Speaker B: Panicking, he's hyperventilating.
[00:58:02] Speaker A: He's like, everyone's like, so concerned. They're running all over him. They're like, are you okay? Like, what's going on? He gets up and he's like, I'm okay. And you can hear them be like, what an idiot. So stupid.
He's giving youngest child energy. Like, always needs to be the center of attention. Such a drama queen.
[00:58:24] Speaker B: I love her.
[00:58:24] Speaker A: That was so funny. So they begin to drench the place with gasoline. We cut back to Will screaming in agony as Jonathan begs Joyce to stop saying that she's going to kill him. He tries to turn off the heater, but then they see the veins spreading up his neck. He develops insane strength and rips the bindings off and starts to choke Joyce face.
Noah Schnapp says there was just so much going on. The heaters didn't actually heat up. It wasn't really hot. It was actually really cold because it was winter. I had to wear these contacts when I was possessed. They put these black contacts in my eyes to make my eyes really black. I was screaming the whole night. And the next morning I woke up and my voice had disappeared. I couldn't speak. But I was really excited to get to do the choking part because I always seen that in action movies. And I'm always like, oh, I want to do that.
[00:59:05] Speaker B: All right.
[00:59:07] Speaker A: He's like, I really wanted to get tied to a chair because I'd always seen he's, like, so excited to be choking and. And getting tied up and everything. And I'm like, oh, what kind of
[00:59:14] Speaker B: movies are his parents letting him watch?
[00:59:16] Speaker A: I'm like, what are you watching?
Just, like, so funny.
[00:59:21] Speaker B: Violence.
[00:59:23] Speaker A: And then he says, there's a part at the end of the scene where the veins crawl up my neck and the monster escapes. For the cgi, they had to put these dots all over my face. They just got a Sharpie and drew all over my neck, and I looked like a leopard or something. But it was really fun. I loved getting to work with Winona and Charlie. We filmed till, like, seven in the morning. It was also our very last night of filming, so everyone was kind of happy and sad. It was a hard scene, but it kept everyone awake because we were all so sad that we had to leave each other. So cute.
[00:59:47] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: Back the lab, Hop and Elle approach the control room, hear demodog noises. Hop goes in first and sees that the place is absolutely swarming with them. At the tunnel, Steve pulls out the lighter, prepares to light up the tunnels. At the cabin, Joyce is sitting in Will's chokehold. Or not sitting. She's still in the wolves. Will's chokehold struggling there, struggling, barely breathing, almost dying. Nancy grabs a hot poker and burns him, causing Will to let go of Joyce. At the lab, Hopper enters the control room and prepares to open fire on all the demos. But just then, Steve lights the tunnels up.
I thought when I was watching this, I was like, did they. They were there when they heard that everything was connected to Will and, like, they needed to exercise the stuff out of Will. Will first in order to. And I know it all works out, but I'm like, they were not thinking this through. What if they lit that whole place up and it ends up killing Will?
[01:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't really understand that part, to be honest. I was like, why would they do this? And they're not telling anyone.
[01:00:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Or at least they don't also have a radio.
[01:00:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, they're not telling any of the other people that are out, like, doing something.
Yeah.
Yep. I fear Steve was right all along.
[01:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, their timing was impeccable because this is the last straw that ends up forcing the shadow monster out of Will. But if they hadn't been right, Then, yeah, they would have killed Will. Lucky break. So Nancy watches as the particles race out of the cabin into the atmosphere. Joyce and Jonathan beg Will to wake up and he does, recognizing them instantly. The music that plays when Will wakes up up and El sees the rift for the first time is called Crib. And it's the same music for when Becky shows Elle the room that she should have had, which I think this is kind of just like supposed to be a full circle moment for both Will and El, the two kids that have had their lives and childhoods taken away from them. And kind of like a bit of a closure moment. And then the sequence with Hopper, 11 and the DEMOD dogs at the lab, the kids, the tunnel and Will at the cabin were all like super interconnected with each other and had to be mostly rendered by visual effects effects. So there was almost nothing there when the duffers began editing. And they said that 30 to 45 second sequence took them at least 20 hours to edit. Wow, that is insane.
The showdown featuring eleven and Hopper fighting the Mind Flayer and closing the gate was the only scene in the show which didn't have any practical effects, really
[01:02:14] Speaker B: in the entire show.
[01:02:16] Speaker A: In the. When they say that, they mean up until now. So like for the first two seasons.
[01:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, when
[01:02:23] Speaker A: this was written, this was all that was out at that point.
[01:02:26] Speaker B: Right.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: So up until this point, because there are definitely future seasons and scenes where you're like, this was a green screen.
Visual effects producers explained that the sequence took them a day and a half because the entire environment had to be modeled out and they had to storyboard the scenes frame by frame. It was very difficult for Millie and David, with Matt explaining, we were lifting Millie in the air. David's firing a shotgun. That's loud. The cage is shaking forth, and Millie thought she was about to throw up. Nevertheless, they were very happy with how the sequence turned out. That's intense. For the final episode in the shark cage, they lined up all the storyboard shots and then as they got the shots done in real life, they would cross it out and it helped give a visual for what the scene would look like after all the post production stuff was done. So that was something I talked about a couple episodes back. But they hired an entire visual effects team for this season because obviously there's a lot more with Dart and the Mind Flayer and everything I posted, like I talked about the video on YouTube that I watched with the team talking about everything that they did. But I always thought that a Lot of the visual effects was all like, post production stuff.
So you go in and you add in the particles, you add in the Mind Flayer and all that stuff. It's actually a little bit of pre production, post production, and then also stuff that's happening as they're shooting. And they talked about how one of their visual effects guys is the one who storyboarded everything, like all the scenes they were going to have to do. And it ended up being being incredibly helpful for the Duffers because they used all of his storyboard stuff that typically doesn't happen. And they would go look at the first. They said it was like one by one or a one for one shot. So they would look at a scene on the storyboard, and then they would line it up and shoot it in real time, cross it out and just go to the next one. And it helped them because when you're shooting in front of a green screen, sometimes it makes it really hard to know what's happening next in the sequence when you can, you can't see the Mind Flayer reacting or the demod dogs reacting to what your characters are doing. And so it made it really easy for them to go, okay, this is where our camera needs to be. This is what we got to do next. And so it was fascinating to see the visual effects department was also helping in pre production before they even shot anything. And it actually made their jobs easier in post production because everything was already laid out and everyone knew exactly what was happening in every single shot shot. So I thought that was incredible and probably so helpful for the duffers, you know, movie magic.
Yeah. And then, I mean, the visual effects team did so much, but they were talking about how they weren't always sure if they could get it all done because of the volume of work. And the duffers were writing and directing, so sometimes they wouldn't get the scripts until two weeks before they started shooting. And they ended up going two months over schedule because of everything, which now we're getting into. Why some of the later seasons, you end up having such long gaps between seasons, because sometimes a lot of that is just doing the visual effects. All right, so Jonathan calls Hopper, clears him to close the gate. He and Eleven descend into the pit on the lift, gripping each other's hands. At the tunnels the kids are racing through back to the entrance, when Mike falls in, is caught by vines.
At the rift, Elle begins to use her powers, and we see the Mind Flayer shadow appearing behind the rift.
In the tunnels, Steve frees Mike with the bath. And suddenly Dart appears in front of them. Dustin recognizes him immediately, and he approaches and everyone's like, dustin, this is a bad idea. You're being stupid. And he takes off his mask and is like, remember me? He asks if Dart will let them pass, and Dart snarl. So Dustin apologizes about the storm. Seller pulls out nougat. It's like. It's our favorite. Lucas is like. He's insane.
[01:06:04] Speaker B: Everyone.
[01:06:04] Speaker A: Everyone's like, shh, this is working. Be quiet.
Dustin distracts Dart with the chocolate. He waves everyone bye and then says goodbye and takes off. And it's a little bittersweet.
[01:06:15] Speaker B: How do you even recognize Dart? Like, how does he know it's him?
[01:06:21] Speaker A: Dart has a yellow, like, stripe or spot on his back that none of the other Demodogs have.
[01:06:28] Speaker B: Interesting. Well, that is Dusty, Dustin's son too. So.
[01:06:31] Speaker A: Yes, Dustin birthed him. So.
[01:06:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Right.
[01:06:34] Speaker A: This is.
This is his child.
[01:06:37] Speaker B: Yes, of course. My bad.
[01:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
How dare you not recognize Dart, Leia.
[01:06:43] Speaker B: How dare me? How dare me?
[01:06:45] Speaker A: At the rift, Elle continues to use her powers. She closes her eyes and remember. And remembers Callie's words about using her anger to boost her powers. We get a flashback of Elle being imprisoned in the lab, and Hopper watches in amazement as the. The rift begins to close. In the tunnels, the kids feel the earth move. The demos closing in as they reach the rope, climbing out one at a time. It's just Dustin and Steve, and they've run out of time as the demos appear. But they just race past the boys heading back towards the rift because they. They're being called by the. The Mind Flayer, the. The mother weed. If anybody's ever seen Veggie Tales, the rumor weed. That's a very niche reference.
At the rift, the demos race up the walls and begin to jump on the lift. So Hopper starts. Starts to pick them off with the gun. He runs out of ammo and then pulls out another one as El continues to close the rift, now bleeding from both nostrils. She flashes back to Cie's illusion in the form of Brenner, telling her that she has a wound. You have a wound.
[01:07:39] Speaker B: Eleven.
[01:07:41] Speaker A: A terrible wound.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:07:44] Speaker A: I opened it and it's festering and it will grow. And then we. We get Elle literally being cut out of her mom's womb. And I love that. Direct correlation again of like, the monstrous womb imagery and of like the first rift, it was L being taken out of her mother. We see flashbacks of El screaming in rage as present day El uses both hands and lets out a primal yell. She Begins to levitate, forcing the tendril back, causing all the lights in the cabin and dig site to flare and sealing the rift up completely. That contrast between the female scream versus the male shout is typically supposed to be a woman in peril screaming so that the man can come save her versus the male shout. You very rarely hear men screaming in the way that women do when they're in distress.
[01:08:36] Speaker B: Not on this show.
[01:08:37] Speaker A: Typically, you have the male shout, where it's very like, ha, I'm conquering something, and I'm taking over. And I love that we have that right here that this l giving of the male shouts the female equivalent of that. And I think there's something so beautiful about battle cry. Yeah, it is. And it's so, so good. And it gives me chills every time I hear it. So we see all the demos collapse. A dead dart next to his nougat, and then Hopper holding Elle telling her she did so well.
And we have the music I Can Save Them plays. And it's the same song that played when she told Cali that she can save everyone and chooses to go back. So that, along with the. The music that plays in this moment is just so, so good.
And that's, like, the part of Cali, like, I mentioned this in the Lost Sister episode that I definitely agreed with this whole thing about how, like.
Like, rage benefits Elle in this moment. And it's something that we don't really see in media, especially for women, like rage and anger, and is considered, I say in quotes, a negative emotion, as if there's such a thing. And so it's almost like, not only is it a negative emotion, but it's seen as a very unfeminine emotion. Like, girls are not allowed to feel
[01:09:52] Speaker B: that feminine rage is, like, a thing.
[01:09:55] Speaker A: Yes, it is female rage. And when we say female rage, we mean rage specifically over injustice and grief and over our bodily autonomy being taken away and life and circumstances and such. And it's it. That is a valid and a good thing, and it should be acknowledged and it should be expressed, I think, both in real life and in film. And that's something that, like, oh, I'm gonna. People are gonna hate me for this. That's something I think is perpetuated by Star wars, this idea of, like, rage being, like, a negative emotion leading to, like, the dark side, as if, like, again, there are good and bad emotions. And I think that, like. And I. I get what Star wars is doing, but I think sometimes, like, there's this idea that just because Cali's telling Elle, oh, you, you, like, think about rage, think about all of your pain and stuff and channel that into your powers. That, oh, she's innately telling Elle something that is bad and wrong. And I don't think that's necessarily the case. That might be a hot take, but that's just, that's my thing. I mean, there are studies coming out right now that women are more likely to get autoimmune diseases because women suppress and don't let out their rage. And so it's like, girl, just like, let out your rage and you won't get sick and die.
[01:11:11] Speaker B: Just do it.
[01:11:13] Speaker A: Just do it. This is kind of long, but I think this is really great and it bookmarks Elle's arc and stuff. But we mentioned the resurgence of films portraying men playing God with women's bodies in the Reagan era back in Holly Jolly, and that's when we first got to see kind of the manipulation of Brenner over 11. There's this whole idea of mad scientists and the Bride of Frankenstein that has really been reflected in El's arc for the past two seasons. In the essay Women as Stranger Things, the essayist Melissa Coffer talks about the resurgence of science fiction in the 80s being largely in part due to Reagan's Cold War agenda and the reduction of people to things. Case in point, the AIDS crisis epidemic and, you know, female bodily autonomy.
The American cultural historian David Scow talks about this cycle being repeated from the 1930s with James Wales, Bride Frankenstein quoting, Creating or remaking women and circumventing or modifying ordinary methods of reproduction is a fantasy impulse dating back at least to the myth of Pygmalion. And it is the deeply rooted misogynist motivations that end in the using of the bodies of women for science to circumvent the need for a woman's role in reproduction, as well as treating their bodies as commodities for scientific exploration. Coffer goes on to compare this to what Brenner has done with California Terry, Elle and others. As we've discussed before, she says in the final episode of the first season, eleven appears to have met a similar fate as her female counterparts whose bodies and minds have been exploited, weaponized, and overall subjugated to the whims of male dominated mad science. She gives the last of her energy to destroy the Demogorgon and seemingly ending her life to save her male friends. It seems like a novel cause until it is juxtaposed against an awful truth of other 80s mad science films. The trope of women whose minds and bodies are utilized as a commodity for powerful men in science, ultimately meeting unfavorable ends. And this was like one of my biggest gripes about the end of season one, she goes on and says, this is precisely where Eleven in her narrative depart for the 80s pattern of female victimization, helplessness and dependence. In 80s mad science fiction, Eleven was created to be controlled by men and subjected to have her mind used as a weapon. But by the conclusion of the second season, she is clearly the savior and becomes that by her own choice. Choice. As she stands suspended in air with Hopper fighting off the desperate demag dogs, she channels all her anger of her life experience, everything she knows she's been deprived of, and uses her powers to close the gate to the Upside Down. And unlike her previous female counterparts that have been subjugated by male dominated male Mad Science, she effectively beats the men who attempted to weaponize her by using her powers to do good. By overcoming the barriers that were imposed upon her by Dr. Brenner and the other executors of MK Ultra. In order to mold her into a Cold War weapon, 11 breaks a proverbial glass ceiling that her victimized female 80s counterparts could not. Not only will she survive the Mad Science that was inflicted upon her, but she assumes control over it to save herself and her friends by closing the gate. In this moment, an empowered Eleven overcomes victimization in a beautifully poignant way. And as an androgynous but feminine leaning character, she owns her assaultive gaze. She transcends what male dominated Mad Science intended her to be and creates for herself a purpose. And better yet, she does it in pants and a suit jacket with some fierce eyeliner to boot, and still makes it to the Snowball to slow dance in a dress and share a kiss with Mike, proving that women really can have it all, even with a traditionally male assaultive gaze. As a result, Stranger Things provides us with an almost new Frankensteinian narrative. The product of the Mad Science not only brings about the destruction of her creator, but she survives, strives to fulfill a great purpose and show hopeful signs of assimilating to society in a way previous products of Mad Science simply could not.
And I think that wraps it up so well. And I think it makes the season one finale for me feel a little bit better because it's completing and giving resolution to like all the things that we were like. I. I just am not okay with how Elle's arc ended with her just. It felt like she died in shame and in fear and in service to all these men, you know. So bravo, Duffers.
Bravo.
[01:15:33] Speaker B: For now.
[01:15:34] Speaker A: For now. I know.
So annoying. Stupid men. Stupid men.
[01:15:40] Speaker B: Literally everything they do sucks.
[01:15:46] Speaker A: I feel very passionately about this, in case you can't tell.
[01:15:49] Speaker B: I can tell, girl. I can tell. I love it.
[01:15:53] Speaker A: So one month later, the lab is shut down as a smug Murray, of course, watches. We hear a reporter talking about the replacement.
[01:15:59] Speaker B: What? Murray was in this episode.
[01:16:01] Speaker A: You didn't see Murray at the end?
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's when all of the people were moving out of the lab. You can see all of the scientists leaving. And murder. Murray's camped out in front of them.
Creeper laughing his ass off. And then they're flipping him off as they go by. He's, like, waving to them.
[01:16:21] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:16:22] Speaker A: And we hear the voiceover of the reporter talking about how the release of the tapes exposed this conspiracy, that there was chemical leaks that happened at the lab and that's why Barb died.
[01:16:34] Speaker B: We see Barb's funeral, and then justice for Barbara. Barb. Yep.
[01:16:39] Speaker A: The duffers were like, we have to put her funeral in to kind of cap that off so people stop talking about Barb, bro. Like, we then see Hopper meeting Owens in a restaurant where he gives him a birth certificate that legally makes 11 his daughter. Oh, my heart.
[01:16:54] Speaker B: Owens, I was wrong about you.
[01:16:56] Speaker A: He has a little soft. Spotty.
[01:16:58] Speaker B: Quite literally.
[01:17:00] Speaker A: Yeah, quite literally.
[01:17:03] Speaker B: I keep asking Sarah. I'm like, when is he gonna go evil?
[01:17:05] Speaker A: And I'm like, girl. I feel like.
[01:17:07] Speaker B: She's like, maybe he's not.
[01:17:09] Speaker A: I think he's.
[01:17:09] Speaker B: I think he's a good guy. I'm like, what? Are you sure?
[01:17:12] Speaker A: Same person who didn't notice that Murray was in this episode. It was a blink and you'll miss it moment, so I'll forgive you.
[01:17:18] Speaker B: Who cares? Who cares about him?
[01:17:20] Speaker A: You were too busy doing crochet.
[01:17:22] Speaker B: Literally. Yeah. Yeah, it's true.
[01:17:26] Speaker A: So then Owens tells Hopper to have LA Low for a year to let things cool down. And Hoppers start sweating again. He's like, oh, how am I gonna get this to work? He's like, hey, can, like, maybe we just do one night? Owens is like, what's so important about one night? Then we cut to the gym. We see Mr. Clark helping to prepare for the snowball, putting up the decorations.
[01:17:43] Speaker B: I love Mr. Clark.
[01:17:45] Speaker A: I know. He's just, like, such a pure man. Him and Bob. I'm, like, insane now.
[01:17:50] Speaker B: Please don't die. Yeah.
[01:17:52] Speaker A: Literally, please don't. His name doesn't start with a B. I think he's okay. Well, actually, we don't know what his first name is.
[01:18:00] Speaker B: It's not with a B. I'm deciding something.
Nope. Scott.
[01:18:05] Speaker A: Scott. Yeah. It'll have to start with an S. So he has all of the plot
[01:18:10] Speaker B: armor far away from B.
[01:18:12] Speaker A: So then at the Byers, we see a drawing of Bob as a superhero as Jonathan videos Will dancing with Joyce using Bob's camera. I like how they're showing that, like, Bob left his mark on the family.
Karen takes pictures of Mike, who still has an attitude. Why does he have an attitude?
[01:18:26] Speaker B: Leia, bro, I can't deal with him anymore. Like, I.
He needs to stop.
[01:18:32] Speaker A: Why does he have an attitude? What's going on?
[01:18:35] Speaker B: I think because Elle is not there. Like, oh, just wait, bro. You're gonna see her at the stupid dance. Like, I don't think he thought maybe he didn't know.
[01:18:44] Speaker A: I think. I think he.
[01:18:45] Speaker B: Did he think that she was just. Did he just think that she was just not gonna, like, come see him again?
[01:18:51] Speaker A: I think so. I think he wants her to come to the Snowball and he thinks that she can't come, which. Okay, listen, he's allowed to be upset. I'm not saying he can't. But I just, like, I need this kid to.
[01:19:01] Speaker B: To like.
[01:19:01] Speaker A: I hope season three he's not like
[01:19:03] Speaker B: this because I just need him to stop being. Yeah, he's very mopey.
[01:19:09] Speaker A: I also. Okay, if I was his mother, I'd be low key, a little bit concerned that they're developing a bit of an unhealthy attachment. Does that mean to.
[01:19:17] Speaker B: Does she even know about. She doesn't even know.
Karen doesn't even know about what's going on.
[01:19:23] Speaker A: That's true. But then, okay, I'd be doubly concerned. What is going on with my child and why is he be moping like this? She's like, puberty.
It's really hitting my son like a Mack truck over here.
[01:19:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:19:36] Speaker A: We see Lucas hyping himself up at the mirror to ask Max to dance. Of course, Erica has to come in and just flame him. So funny. Max's mom's helping her with her hair. Billy walks by, and Max just gives him a look. And Billy looks scared.
Good, good.
[01:19:51] Speaker B: Be scared. So funny. The thing about Billy, too, is, like, he's. He's like, if somebody fights back, like, if somebody scares him, he's very scared. He's very easily scared, it seems.
[01:20:04] Speaker A: Good.
[01:20:05] Speaker B: He should be for a guy that, like, talks that big and is, like, that violent.
[01:20:09] Speaker A: People like that are typically running on fear. Like, that's the thing, whenever people are really, really angry, the underlying emotion is typically fear. They don't want to be vulnerable.
That's why, unfortunately, sometimes the sweetest, kindest, most tender hearted people end up becoming the most jaded, bitter, and angry because they're so sensitive to being hurt that they put on this armor that is anger.
[01:20:35] Speaker B: It's.
[01:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's armor.
[01:20:37] Speaker B: Damn.
[01:20:38] Speaker A: Who hurt you, Billy? No, don't answer that. We know.
[01:20:41] Speaker B: Father.
[01:20:43] Speaker A: His father at the Hendersons. Dustin can't find something again. In a call call back to the beginning of the season, his mom just keeps gassing him up. She's holding her new kitten. We hear the doorbell ring and she's like, dusty, you're right. And then we see that Dustin pulls out the Farrah faucet spray and just like lets it rip. And then we hear Love is a battlefield playing another on the nose song. The ending scene where the boys go to the snowball. Apparently all their suits are supposed to represent their careers in the future. So a lot of people were speculating when season five was gonna come and there was going to be a time jump. We didn't know how much of a time jump. Everyone was like, oh, what are they going to be doing in the future? Like, some people were speculating that one of the boys was gonna die based upon the different suits and stuff.
And they've never really. I don't. To my knowledge, I don't think the duffers have ever really said what each boy is in the future. But from what I can see, Mike looks like a professor of some sort. He's got like that brown coat, jacket, jacket with the sweater and the tie.
And then Dustin looks like an eccentric scientist like Bill Nye with the bow tie.
[01:21:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:21:47] Speaker A: And then Will's dressed like Dwight from the office. He's got like a sweater vest.
[01:21:52] Speaker B: He's gonna work for corporate. I don't know.
[01:21:54] Speaker A: I do not know what Will is gonna be dressed like.
Yeah. And then Lucas is the most casual. He's got no tie and his shirt is kind of unbuttoned. So I was like, maybe he'll be more of like a blue collar worker or something. That.
[01:22:07] Speaker B: Or an entrepreneur. Like, he's gonna own his own. His own business where he doesn't have to wear fancy clothes.
[01:22:14] Speaker A: Or maybe he'll go into the military with his. All his bandana stuff.
So then at the snowball, we see that Steve is dropping off little Steve Jr. Dustin. His hair looks just like Steve's and Steve's like his head.
[01:22:31] Speaker B: So cute.
[01:22:32] Speaker A: Adorable. And Then Steve gives him a pep talk. He's like, you know, yeah, we just pretend like we don't care. He tells him that he looks great, that he's gonna go in there, that he looks like a million bucks. And then Dustin purrs. And Steve's like, hey, maybe don't do that. Which, that's when you know real love right there. When you're also like, hey, for your sake and everybody else's, maybe don't do that.
[01:22:52] Speaker B: Don't do that.
[01:22:53] Speaker A: He tells him good luck, and then watches as Dustin goes in and greets Mr. Clark. And then he spots Nancy through a window, all dressed up. And the sadness and the longing is so real. And then he slowly drives away.
[01:23:05] Speaker B: Forget about her, Steve.
[01:23:07] Speaker A: I know. Like, go find someone else, Steve. It's just not gonna work out.
And the music right here is Twist of Fate by Olivia Newton John. And it starts up just as Steve sees Nancy. And it's. Do we deserve a second chance? How did we fall into this circumstance? We weren't so straight and narrow. This is much more than we deserve. A higher voice has called the tune Two hearts that lost the beat will now resume the gift of life extension by divine intervention.
Love does. And then, of course, is life doesn't mean a thing without the love that you bring. Love is what we found the second time around. And I'm like, what does that mean? Are you trying to say that they might still get back together? What is that?
[01:23:45] Speaker B: I hope not.
Let's not beat that dead horse. Come on, guys.
[01:23:50] Speaker A: I know. Let's let them both, like, have the life that they need and deserve. And yeah, inside, Dustin is confidently greeting Nancy, who's, you know, help him with punch, and smiling at Jonathan. Photographing the kids. Dustin says hi to the gang. They all make fun of his hair, but, you know, in a loving way. Time after time starts playing. And Lucas, not so suavely, chokes on asking Max to go dance with him. And she's like, are you asking me to dance? He's like, yeah. No. And she's like, come on. Stalker pulls him onto the dance floor. Floor. A girl asks Will, AKA Zombie Boy, to dance. We see this shake Dustin's confidence until he spots Stacy with a bunch of girls, asks her to dance, but she shoots him down. Everyone laughs. He gathers himself and goes to ask another older girl, but they see him coming and quickly move away.
And then Nancy notices poor Dustin looking so lost and alone. And then we see him on the bench crying.
[01:24:49] Speaker B: Poor Dusty.
[01:24:50] Speaker A: This is so sad.
[01:24:52] Speaker B: So sad.
It really do be like that though. Like at school dances.
[01:24:59] Speaker A: Like, it really is.
[01:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just brutal. It's a rough time to be a kid.
[01:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And then thankfully Nancy sees him and then she grabs him and says, let's dance. And you can see him like wipe away his tears and he starts to smile again and she teaches him how to dance. And then people like the girls start noticing that he's dancing with Nancy and. And then she tells him that he's always been her favorite of her brother's friends. And then he just full on beams. And this is so cute because he had the biggest crush on her at the beginning of the season. And I'm just like, all my heart can't take much more of this. This is so cute. And then she tells him that girls this age are dumb and to give them a few years for them to wise up and then he'll drive them nuts. And apparently this moment came from one of the Duffer brothers own experience. I guess they had an older cousin that gave one of them a pep talk like this. And then there's behind the scenes footage of the camera operator who actually started to tear up and cry when he was shooting Dustin's scene of him crying on the bleachers because he remembered experiencing that as a kid.
Oh, my God.
[01:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it is a pretty, I think, universal experience, but that's just so funny. Like it's all the men and they
[01:26:15] Speaker A: said he's like a grown burly man. He's over there like, wiping tears away.
Everybody has. Has their trauma for sure.
Outside, Joyce is waiting and Hopper appears and she tells him that, you know, Will asked for a little bit of space if she's trying to give him some space. And Hopper pulls out the smokes and is like, hey, like, I bet you are. I think our teacher retired a few years back. And Hop asks how she's holding up and says that the feeling never goes away when she kind of just like tears up. And he says, every day gets a little easier. Then she looks so sad as he puts his arm around her. We hear every breath you take start playing inside and then see Mike just sitting forlornly at the table. And then 11 enters.
[01:27:02] Speaker B: Thank God. Finally.
[01:27:05] Speaker A: Apparently, David harbor really was lobbying for Joyce and Hopper to get together at the end of season two. Like really lobbying for it. But the Duffers were like, it doesn't make sense with how fast she she or how soon she lost Bob. Like, yeah, she needs time to grieve and mourn him. And it would Just seem kind of disrespectful and also maybe not necessarily realistic,
[01:27:29] Speaker B: too, you know, True respect, my man Bob.
[01:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And I mean also, too, like, we want to show how much she cared about him. Right. Like, if they got together, it would be like, oh, Bob was just.
Yeah.
[01:27:42] Speaker B: Like, just there.
[01:27:43] Speaker A: A makeout buddy.
[01:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah, he was so much more than that.
[01:27:47] Speaker A: The song Every Breath youh Take is hilarious because it's about a stalker. And so we have Elle coming into that, and we know that Elle had been watching Mike all season, but then also Max calling Lucas stalker, but then also the mind flayer watching all of them. Like, it's just kind of perfect.
[01:28:07] Speaker B: Lots of creepiness happening. Yep.
[01:28:10] Speaker A: Her dress, there's significance to it. So she's wearing this cute blue dress. Her hair is a combination of how it was at the cabin and also Kali, so she still got the curliness, but it's slicked back a little bit. So I like how it shows that she's combining the two elements and the two parts of herself or the two sides of her life. IMDb pointed out that her dress has puff sleeves, which, if you've ever read Anne of Green Gables, which Hop was reading to her at the beginning of the season, and he also read to his daughter Sarah. A huge plot point of Anne of Green Gables was that really wanted a dress with puff sleeves, and her adoptive mom didn't really want to give it to her. Like, it's a huge plot point. But eventually her adoptive dad, Matthew, ends up buying it for her, and it's like this really big, sweet moment. And so I think that the puff sleeves are supposed to be, like, an homage to Anne of Green Gables and Elle finding her place in her world and actually finally being home now, which is a big. Which is a big thing because she was talking to Hopper about, does she have a mom? Does she have a dad? Does she have a home? Does anybody want her? As he was reading that excerpt from the book where Anne was saying that she didn't think anybody wanted her. And so now this is 11, you know, at her home now. And that in the. In the book, when Anne has the puff sleeves and everything, it's kind of like the moment where she's feeling accepted by Matthew and Marilla and everything. And so it's very significant, significant, very cute. And Elle is also wearing Hopper's blue bracelet that he's worn for the past two seasons. That was his daughter Sarah's hair ties. So a lot of significance here. Yeah. And the dress being blue, it's also a tie back to Sarah and everything. So it's like just very symbolically. She is representing Hop. She's Hopper's daughter now.
[01:29:55] Speaker B: She's his daughter, officially. Yeah.
[01:29:58] Speaker A: So Mike tells her that she looks beautiful, asks her to dance. Neither of them knows how to dance, but they're gonna figure it out together.
[01:30:04] Speaker B: So that was really sweet. Yeah.
[01:30:07] Speaker A: And then we see all our couples dancing, which I, I, I just love that. Cuz all of season one was Mike showing Elle new things and new experiences. And so I love that this is kind of symbolizing that, like, why don't
[01:30:19] Speaker B: we figure it out together?
[01:30:20] Speaker A: They're going to learn new things together now. Like, oh, I love that.
[01:30:25] Speaker B: So first she can teach him how to stop being a sour puss.
[01:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah, Maybe he'll smile more.
Smile more. Mike.
[01:30:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:30:33] Speaker A: You look so pretty when you smile.
[01:30:35] Speaker B: You look so handsome with your hair. Hair pushed back. Ew. He's a kid. What did I say that for?
[01:30:44] Speaker A: I can't wait till they get older and we can flame them without feeling so bad.
[01:30:47] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Seriously?
[01:30:50] Speaker A: So then Max kisses Lucas, Mike and Elle kiss. It's so happy. Everything's just wrapping up.
The timing for the kiss between mike and 11 at the snowball dance. So actor Finn told Millie that he, he was, he was telling her, like, hey, when I, when I'm going to kiss you, he says, I'm going to say I'm coming in right before I kiss.
I'm coming in. And then he would start, he would start kissing.
[01:31:19] Speaker B: That's so ominous.
[01:31:21] Speaker A: Coming in, coming in for a landing. Oh, no.
So if you see. Because the camera was circling them and so they had to get the timing just right. And so if you pay attention, Finn's mouth moves just slightly before he comes in for the kiss and everything.
The kiss between Lucas and Max was the first kiss for both Sadie and Caleb ever again like that. It was also not in the script. So in Beyond Stranger Things, which has interviews from cast members, you can find it on YouTube. I'll post it on our Instagram.
So there's an interview with the Duffers and Sean Levy and Finn and Millie. And there's also a separate interview with. With the Duffers. I think Shawn Levy's there as well. And with Sadie. And they talked about how they wanted Finn and Millie wanted to mess with Caleb and Sadie, and they convinced the Duffers to do a kiss. It's uncertain if it was something the Duffers were planning on doing before Finn and Millie brought it up, but they brought it up. And then the next day, the day of shooting, the Duffer sprang it on Sadie. And apparently in the days leading up to it, Millie stressed Sadie out because they. They would have sleepovers and Millie would be like, omg, are you so excited? And Sadie was super stressed and told Millie she just didn't even want to think about it and that she didn't think it was going to happen. Like, she's like, oh, it probably just won't even happen and stuff. And then the day of, she found out it was going to happen, and they had to keep redoing it. They had to do it, like, 10 times because they kept missing Caleb's reaction. And it was awkward because every time they kissed, all the extras, 250 of them would clap for them.
[01:32:53] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And then they literally. So humiliating.
[01:32:58] Speaker A: And then they would all be like, ooh. And like, high five fiving and stuff. And so. And the kiss caused a lot of controversy at the time because the interviews came out and. And the Duffers were faced with a lot of criticism for forcing, I say in quotations, Sadie to film the scene. In an episode of behind the Scenes, Beyond Stranger Things, host Jim Risch asked Sadie about the scene, and she admitted that it was unplanned. She says the kiss was not written in the script. And then she says that Ross Duffer jokingly asked her if she was ready for the kiss during the first day of filming the snowball. I get there the first day of Snowball, one of you. I think it was you, Ross, you say, oh, Sadie, you ready for the kiss? And I'm like, what? No, that's not in the script. That's not happening. So the whole day I was stressed out. I was like, oh, my God, wait, am I going to have to. Ross Duffer responded and said, you reacted so strongly to this. I was just joking. You were so freaked out that I was like, well, I gotta make her do it now.
[01:33:54] Speaker B: Now. But why?
[01:33:57] Speaker A: The kiss was then written into the script on the second day of filming and was shot in front of a couple of hundred extras, crew members, and their parents. Sadie later clarified in an interview with the Rap that she never objected to the kiss and felt comfortable on set. I mean, of course I was nervous because it's a first kiss, right? But I never objected to it or felt pushed into anything. I always felt comfortable in the Duffer Brothers. They do the best job and always create a comfortable space, and if I felt uncomfortable with anything, I wouldn't have done it, she said. She added, we were both awkward but it was also funny because all our friends were there and all these extras and lights and music. It was nerve wracking at the time. But I look back now and can laugh about it. Caleb McLaughlin says this in a most recent interview. I had a bunch of people around me and like extras and everyone just watching. And then he says they had music on and everyone's like waiting for it to happen. It's a lot of kids like, ooh, you're gonna kiss her. And I'm like, bro, stop. We're acting. You're making it bigger than it actually has to be in. In 2017, interview with Glamour, executive producer Sean Levy shared that what it was like filming the scene from behind the cameras. He said the kids were mortified shooting those kisses. Sean laughed. Mortified. We had to do it a lot of times because the Steadicam was going around and around. If the camera was in the wrong place, you wouldn't see the kiss.
So I maintain what I said in season one. I just don't think we need these kissing scenes. I just don't think these kids are 14 year olds playing 13 year olds. I just don't think it's necessary and important. I think we can convey the sweetness of it all with them just dancing, like, yeah, it's not necessary. And I just, I struggle so much with the fact that it's these children's first kiss ever too.
[01:35:38] Speaker B: And you can see that's what I'm, that's what I.
[01:35:41] Speaker A: How stressed out they are.
[01:35:43] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's like, like I get like, you know, Sadie saying, you know, it wasn't, you know, she didn't feel forced into it or it was fine or whatever. I think it's just, it's like the concept of like, this is a first experience that she's having as like a teenage girl and she has to do it in that circumstance, I think is like, I don't know, it's, it's weird. It's not normal to have your first kiss be in that type of circumstance stance.
So I kind of feel bad for these kids because it's like, I think it just kind of goes to show how not normal their lives are just in general. And it's like this one more thing that's kind of taken away from them. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of sad.
[01:36:30] Speaker A: It is sad. And I think it's really hard too, because you can see in all of the interviews that I was reading, I read some from Caleb McLaughlin when he was younger and Then some from when he was older, and also some from Sadie when she was younger. When she was older. And it's. It's very much a matured step, taking a step back from it all. Thing of, like, now they're older, now they're kind of like, what's the big deal? Because that's part of their job is having to kiss people, and they're able to make a separation between. This is the role I'm playing in the character I'm playing versus, you know, me and my real life. But unfortunately, I think those lines get blurred when it's your first kiss and you're doing it with a bunch of people that are all, like, making it much bigger deal than what it actually is. Because at that point, I think with the extras oohing and awing and your friends like Finn and Millie, which I'm not blaming, they were children as well, but by Finn and Millie building it up and stuff, I think it creates this blurriness between a job and your own lived experience.
And I think it makes it even harder when they haven't actually had a kiss yet in real life. So it's just this big, momentous thing that everybody is witnessing and everyone is making it something that it's not. Not supposed to be. And that's. I just. I would feel so bad for them. And some of the interviews with Caleb, he's like, I want to move past it. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Like, he actually was telling the interviewer, like, he's like, it's a job, it's work. Let's move on. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense. And it's just, like, because people are still asking about it now. And he. Yeah, that's unfortunately a part of his personal life that is now forever tied.
[01:38:04] Speaker B: I think the thing is, like, not to say that, that, like, these kids had a bad experience. I think it's just that the idea of it is just bizarre, I think, because I think they are professionals. Like, they do view it as a job, and they probably did it and it was fine. And then the next day, you know, it was fine. I think it's just. It's just the idea of, like, having to experience that in that setting is just. It's a bizarre experience that, like, a child can't really understand, I don't think.
You know.
[01:38:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:38:40] Speaker B: But at the end of the day, like. Like, they are professionals.
They're. This is what they do for work. So I can also see that perspective. It's just. Yeah. It's just a bizarre situation.
I don't know.
[01:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I just. And again, I'm not saying the Duffers or Sean Levy are doing anything icky or untoward, but I do. I do think that as the adults in the situation, I think we need to be responsible for what situations we're writing for our young child actors. And I. I wish that there was a little bit more thought put into things like this. I know it's just a kiss, I say, but for these kids, obviously it felt like more than that and like the stress leading up to it and.
[01:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:39:22] Speaker A: So anyways.
Yeah. And then we end, we go outside, we hear the music. Music. It gets faint. The camera tilts upside down. And now we're at the upside down snowball, and we see the shadow of the Mind Flayer looming over the school as the credits roll. Lest we think that, oh, the show's over, we have to have that last little bit there just reminding us. He's watching.
He's here. Back to Tony Mike Wazowski.
[01:39:50] Speaker B: I'm watching you, Wazowski.
[01:39:53] Speaker A: Always watch, watching. But, yeah, that's the end of season two, guys.
[01:39:58] Speaker B: Wow.
Wow. Crazy. Crazy.
[01:40:02] Speaker A: So let us know your thoughts. You guys. We're gonna be doing our season two recap. We want to know your thoughts on season two. We'll do a spoiler and spoiler free section, just like we did last time. Yeah. Just some things to consider. Do you guys think that the show should have ended after season two? What do you think about Steve's character development and Steve and Nancy and that whole thing? What do you guys think is going to happen with Billy for the next season?
Do we think Joyce and Hopper are going to get together?
[01:40:32] Speaker B: O.
Yeah. What.
[01:40:35] Speaker A: What predictions do you guys think? Like, where do you guys see the show heading into in season three? So let us know.
You guys can email us, obviously, and then DM us on Instagram and then we will include your guys thoughts and comments in our recap of the season.
So, yeah, pretty exciting. All right, guys, thanks so much for listening and we will talk to you all next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us an investigating angelpodcast@gmail com.
