Show Notes
Angel must track down a retired wrestler to help him defeat an ancient Aztec warrior who emerges every 50 years to devour the heart of a hero.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating angel, an angel rewatch.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Podcast where we analyze each episode of angel the series with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leia and Sarah.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: And if you love angel, this is the podcast for you favorite guy.
Yep, there it is. This is how it's gonna be.
Oh, I knew it. I knew it. You know how you could just tell there's some days where you're like, oh, man. Like, words are just coming out of my mouth that are like, they're flowing. Creativity is going. My brain is just working so well. Like, the energy is just, oh, it's so good. And then there's some days where it's just like, I. Like, I got up this morning, I was like, oh, I could just tell recording tonight is going to be rough. Like, I just know.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: And all day today, both had a day.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: My words have just not been coming. I just.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been fighting with technology all day. None of my apps work.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: It's the end of the weekend. So you think. You would think it would be like, we were great Rush. Rushed, refreshed.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Rushed it.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Anyway, guys, season five, episode six, Crawling to the Finish Line. Are we only on episode six, I.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Just almost crashed out now trying to open my protein bar, too. I was just like, why is this not opening?
[00:01:44] Speaker A: She was sitting there just, like, angrily chewing.
The thing is, I like this episode.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: I love talking about it.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Today is episode six, the cautionary tale of numerous Cinco. Written directed by Jeffrey Bell. Aired November, November 5, 2003. And I'm gonna be stumbling over my words all day today. I don't know is one of those days where I feel like I have marbles in my mouth, but this is actually, like, a decent episode, which is so funny because I know everyone's gonna go, huh?
[00:02:11] Speaker B: Yeah, everybody hates this episode, generally. I disagree because I love this episode.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: It's generally seen as the weakest episode to the majority of people, the weakest episode of the season.
And yeah, I disagree. I don't think we've seen the weakest episode of the season yet.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: No, we haven't.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: So from what I remember. But we'll see. But, yeah, this was a refreshing episode. You know, it was very much contained, which I kind of liked. Like, I am finding myself gravitating more, and I think we talked about that on the Discord this week. I'm finding that whenever both Buffy or Angel starts start to do more serialized storytelling, that the show loses something in the process. Like both Buffy and. Well, I won't say angel, but especially Buffy. There tends to be more of this, like for the first, I will say like four seasons. The show was really good about having contained storytelling in each episode that made every single one unique. And like, I can look back at the first four seasons. 4. 4 is where it starts to kind of like get a little rockier. And you can tell me an episode title and I can tell you exactly what happens in that episode. What the monster is. You start getting into season five and six and seven and it becomes a little bit harder to distinguish between the episodes because things just start happening one after the other. Like it's. There's no pause between the action and it's just one long story. And you guys know our feelings on season three and four of Angel. It started doing that there. And so I find myself being really happy when we get back to very self contained stories that still contribute to the plot.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: I was gonna say this episode is like really important. There's a lot of callbacks to season one. Callbacks to Shanshu in la, callbacks to Judgment, callbacks to like Darla.
And it's also foreshadowing a lot, A lot.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: There was a lot of things that was hap. I was like watching and I was like, ooh, ooh, ooh. I wish we could talk about that because I, I know that there's other things that are going to happen in this season but. But yeah, it was just kind of a breath of fresh air. It was nice to just sit down and watch a self contained story while also knowing like where it's going, but also for what it's talking about. Angel. I don't really feel like we've had a really good angel focused episode yet this season. And this was really nice to just like take some time and kind of like, kind of see where he's at and see what his head space is like what, what he's thinking about. Obviously we, we know this is what he's going through. Like, the lack of conviction has been shown clearly throughout the season. But it was just kind of nice to like sit with him for a minute in it and have him kind of have a little bit of hope at the end. Like, it was so nice. Yeah.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah. What I really liked is that I, I feel like this show sometimes when they're trying to bring across a message or tell you something in an episode, they tend to almost hit you over the head with it. And I felt like there, yeah, like.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Provider enemy number one.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: I'll never forget, never gonna forget how.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Stupid that episode was. I'm gonna call Prophecy Girls and tell them when they re. When they get to that episode, to extend an invitation to have you come.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Oh, no, I'm not watching it ever again. You couldn't pay me.
But what I like about this episode is that they're doing that in a way, like, at the parallels and, like, with angel and the wrestler are very overt. You can see them without having to squint too much. But it doesn't feel like we're being proven reached at. It just feels like angel has come across this other character, and they relate to each other, and we can see Angel's story in this other character. And I really enjoyed that because I also thought that the story of the wrestlers was really endearing. And I think that just. It, like, pulled at my heartstrings. Yeah. And I think that's really, like, what makes it so effective is that, you know, I know a lot of people think it's, like, boring, but I didn't think it was boring. I thought it was really cool. I really liked the lore. I liked. I just liked all of it. It was just great.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I think, because you kind of care a little bit about number five and the story was just kind of. It was campy, but not in a way that just was like, this is just stupid. It. I don't know. It was really.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: And you care about him because you see angel in him and you care about Angel.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: So that's where, like, I kind of came at it from, which is why I feel like in the last episode with, like, Nina. Right? That was the last episode. No, this was. No, that was three episodes ago. The episode with Nina where it was.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Like, life of the party was the last one.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Yes. The episode with Nina where, you know, her and angel kind of relate to each other because you don't really care within them.
Yeah, you just don't really care because this is something that we've known about angel for, like, a really long time. We. Whereas I feel like this episode, it's telling us something not new, but it's. It's showing us inside of Angel's mind right now, and it does it in a really great way.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: And I think the biggest, for me, at least, the biggest difference between that was Nina was trying to figure out, like, how am I going to reconcile the monster within me and stuff, which we've seen over and over again. I felt like the angle that this episode took was family and this idea of I'm disconnected from everyone I love and I care about and showing the consequences of the mission and how, like, showing why angel is so disenfranchised with the mission and everything because of the loss that he has experienced the past couple of seasons. Cordelia, Connor, Darla, etc. Etc. I. And you, we. Because we've been with him, and even in. In a. In another way, he's feeling that about the gang, that he's. That is still alive and still with him currently, he's feeling like he can't quite connect with them. And so because we've been in his shoes for so long and we've also bonded with those characters, I think it hit a little bit harder to watch number five missing his family, you know?
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. But it also made me, like, there were multiple points during the episode where some parts, like, maybe didn't work for me as well, because in my head, I'm just like, yes, Numero Cinco lost his family, but it just shows me that angel still has a lot of his family. And the way the team was working together and doing, like, everything they could to help angel, it just kind of reinforces that angel still has that, and he needs to kind of get out of his own head and realize that he does have a great support system around him and he isn't alone. And there's people that have followed him here. You know, even if there's the missing memories piece, like, these people still came with him here, and they're trying to make the best out of the situation and that he should live in the moment and appreciate them more, I think, because I feel like angel is thinking so much about his losses that he's not realizing of, like, what he still has right now. And that's kind of what I saw as the difference between Numero Cinco and Angel, just in, like, the literal sense and why angel was able to ultimately defeat the demon and be a part of that. The group of, you know, the group that of the wrestlers. So. Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. So this episode was originally titled Night of the Luchadors. The episode has the longest cold opening in the whole series so far at 6 minutes and 18 seconds. It was previously held by Release, which is the episode that Faith comes in. And it will be beaten by a later episode with 6 minutes and 49 seconds. Harm's way.
I know. So that ends up being, I think, the longest cold open in the series. Yeah.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Kind of crazy, this one, too, if I'm being honest.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I. I remember it, and I haven't seen this show in a couple years, so.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Good.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: So writer and director Jeffrey Bell explains that he always wanted to work Mexican wrestling into one of the X File scripts that he worked on, but it wasn' he pitched the idea to creator Joss Whedon that he was able to realize his lifelong dream to tell a story about Mexican wrestlers. The inspiration for the episode came partly from the real life Mexican wrestler Santo, whose career included film roles as masked luchador fighting luchadors fighting vampires and other supernatural foes, one of whose film was used in Samson vs. The Vampire Woman in 1995.
And I saw someone online that was talking about how they felt like one of the reasons why this episode actually works on an emotional level is because it seems like it was kind of a passion project for Jeffrey Bell because he loves Mexican wrestling so much and he really just wanted to tell the story. But what, what I also love about this episode is it pulls us back to the season one, season two idea of Los Angeles being its own character. Because there's a heavy, heavy Hispanic influence in la. And that's one of the reasons why, like, it kind of pulled at my heartstrings because, you know, I'm from LA and so the huge heavy Hispanic culture and influence and so you're around that all the time. And so I. It's odd that we haven't had that in the show up until now because it's hugely prevalent everywhere. And so it's kind of nice because we have a little bit of like, this is another side to LA that we haven't seen and another side, another story that we haven't explored up until now. So it was kind of fun. But I think Jeffrey Bell being passionate about that is another reason why this story works as well as it does.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you can tell that there was a lot of care that was put into the story. Like even down to the score, I thought the music was like, oh, it was so beautiful.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: So you could, you could really tell that it was something that he, that he was very into, very inspired by.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
So Lucha Libre wrestlers are known as luchadores and are often comes from the extended wrestling families who form their own stables. So the idea of, about being.
The idea of these like five brothers is very common in the luchadores scenarios where they will all, often they call them stables. They will develop these fighting teams and it's usually a bunch of brothers or a bunch of cousins and stuff like that. And this is from Wikipedia, because I kind of, I. I do not know anything about Mexican wrestling at all. So I looked up kind of like what the mask symbolizes in a lot of ways, because I think it's very interesting that he keeps his mask on the entire episode. And then once his brothers are resurrected or come back, they're also wearing their masks, which I thought was very interesting. What?
[00:12:56] Speaker B: So I was watching this episode today in the server with Grace, and as soon as it was done. No, actually, during the episode, I was writing to her. I was like, I hope Sarah does research about this.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Say.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: I was like, I really want to know more about the history behind this. I hope Sarah does the research.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: I love how you didn't text me. You just assumed that I was gonna do. I mean, rightly so, obviously. Here we are. It's so funny because, like, now whenever we're on Becoming Buffy, and there's a. Like, there's like a.
A dream sequence or there's like something playing on television, Tabby will go, and I just don't know what this is. Sarah, can you translate for me? For Sarah, what is playing on the television right now? I'll be like, all right, here we go.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Anyway, on you.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't do a ton. A ton of stuff, but. So Wikipedia says masks have been used dating back to the beginning of lucha libre in the early part of the 20th century and have a historical significance to Mexico in general, dating to the days of the Aztecs, which is significant. Significant because you have the whole.
The monsters resurrected with the power of the Aztec God and, like, the little medallion and everything. They say early masks were very simple, with basic colors to distinguish the wrestler. In modern lucha libre, masks are colorfully designed to evoke the image of animals, gods, ancient heroes, and other archetypes whose identity the luchador takes on during a performance. Virtually all wrestlers in Mexico will start their careers wearing masks, but over the span of their careers, a large number of them will be unmasked. Sometimes a wrestler slated for retirement will be unmasked in his final bout or at the beginning of a final tour, signifying a loss of identity as that character. Sometimes losing the mask signifies the end of a gimmick, with the wrestler moving on to a new gimmick and mask. The mask is considered sacred to a degree, so much so that fully removing an opponent's mask during a match is grounds for disqualification. During their careers, mask luchadores will often be seen in public wearing their mask and keeping up the culture of lucha libre, while other masked wrestlers will interact with the public and press. Normally, however, they will still go to great lengths to conceal their true identities. In effect, the mask is synonymous with the luchador El Santo continued wearing his mask after retirement, revealing his face only briefly in old age, and was eventually buried wearing his silver mask. So obviously there's a lot that they're taking from Santo, but I kind of see it as. As it's the symbol that for a hero, the fight is never over. Like his brothers coming up out of the ground with their masks. It's almost like even in death, they still fight for good. And I think it. It speaks to this idea that the fight in general on angel, like, being a hero, like, it's just. It's never ending. And so you. And then also, like, how he kind of can't give up that hero identity even in supposed retirement as he's, you know, still going around a Wolfram and Hart, how even though, like, he's like, angel worries that, oh, my heart is not actually the heart of a hero or a champion, like, he still has to carry that identity with him. It's just very interesting and very poignant, but I love that.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: And I also love just, like, what it says culturally, like, beautiful. It just says so much about a culture and what they. What they find, like, purpose in and significance in. And I. I really love that.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like. I was reading some more too. Oftentimes they will kind of like, before they start fighting, the two wrestlers will basically, like, wager their mask or wager their hair, and whoever loses has to lose their mask. Like, they will be unmasked or they'll sometimes give the mask, and then that wrestler will sometimes assume their identity. And so it's a very metaphorical. Like, you're losing a lot when you actually lose the wrestling match. And so it puts more at stake. Stake. It's just. It's very fascinating. And so you. Off. You often have these wrestlers like Santo, who has the silver mask. That's his identity. So much so I mean, he's buried in it, you know, but, yeah.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that it also just speaks to, like, how much you take pride in your convictions, I think.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Which is a really big theme for this season.
And this is something Angel's struggling with currently. So it makes perfect sense.
[00:17:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And the mask can even be a symbol for hope too. Right. Like, we talk about, like, the Batman signal and.
And all that stuff. There's something about that mask, especially for someone who was a hero, that would probably inspire hope for other people.
But, yeah, very fascinating. So all things. All things philosophical says angel can pay lip service to the hero's mission, but he doesn't feel the passion of it anymore. Wesley believes he's lost hope in his own future and reminds him of the Shanshu prophecy. But belief reward won't give angel back everything he's lost. By agreeing to work for Wolfram and Hart, angel has lost faith in himself, in his belief that his decisions and actions consistently serve the cause of good. And that also goes back to the mask thing. Angel's lost faith in himself and this idea of like, who? Like, who am I searching for? Like, purpose and meaning. And you have number five over here who's also done that as well. Yet he still clings to this idea deal of himself. Basically.
Angel's disconnection comes not just from feeling cut off from his mission in his tower of glass and steel. He feels disconnected inside Wolfram and Hart as well. Disconnected from his friends. When angel lost his son, all memory of Connor was removed from his friends minds. His friends cannot be a source of comfort in his grieving. And he is discovering that there are many things he shared with them that he can no longer talk to them about. I really liked that.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's another great parallel with Numero Cinco where you know the scene where they're watching the present day wrestling match and he talks about how people have forgotten his brothers. And that's something that angel can totally relate with. People forgot Connor and we'll talk about it when we get there. It's just such a beautiful scene. And I just see so many parallels between them.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So then critically touched says the life of a hero. The episode seems to be telling us is circular. Number five toiled in obscurity. And he returned to obscurity. Angel began the series disconnected from humanity. Remember Doyle encouraging him to form human connections way back in city of years later. And he's as disconnected as ever. Although his disconnection has taken something of a different form. Even his cat Cattle is back stalking the streets and relieving people of their internal organs. 50 years after being killed by number five and his brothers. Number five looks at all this in despairs. Why did we bother? He asks. Asks, what difference did we make? And I really love anything that points back to the original theme of the show. Every time they bring up disconnect, I was like, ooh. There's a lot of like little nods. There's like lots of telephones. I don't know if you remember us talking about how like the mission. Every time like the phone would ring, it was supposed to be like a reminder of the mission. The powers that be trying to get in Con, like, in contact with him and kind of like a reminder of what he's fighting for. And so I really, really loved that callback because it's like, it's time. It's been several seasons of. Of us just not addressing this and angel coming so far from the original premise of the show, but. All right, that's my introduction. You ready?
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: All right, so we start off with a security guard making his rounds around, like, a random warehouse. He ends up going through a fenced area and finds a guy named Carlos that was coming out, I guess, working with the. The sewers, the septic pipes. And then Carlos gets attacked by a monster. The guard gets attacked by a monster, and then we end with him screaming, and we're like, oop, Is this going to be another, you know, help the helpless, help a victim thing? Kind of, but not exactly the way that we think it's going to. And then we cut to the hallways of Wolfram and Hart. We see the mailman, number five, pushing his cart down the hallway. And I love, love, love that we have had glimpses of number five for several episodes now.
I'm a sucker for that. All those, like, little detail things that you just don't notice until you go back and rewatch. So he's wearing his mask painted red, white, and blue, and has the number five on it. He delivers the mail to various personnel, continues on his way, Runs into Lauren, who has two greeting cards in his hands and is like, okay, professional opinion. Sexy sucker mama or brainy beauty? And the mailman just, like, stares at him. He's like, you're an aging sex spot celebrating a decade of turning 29. You got two little rugrats that aren't that little. A husband who thinks the extras, trailers, buffet table, and gravity ain't doing you any favors. So he's, like, trying to figure out which one. And then Fred comes up and he's like, hey, Fred, sweetie, you're sort of like a woman. I was like, lord, I feel like you know better than this. And she's like, oh, that's not a compliment.
Which, honestly, that was a great way to handle that. Because I would have been like, that's offensive.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: She was like, no, I don't think so.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not doing that today. And then Lauren's like, I need some opinions. And then Fred's like, don't send a card. Just give her flowers. Say it's just because. And then Lauren's like, oh, that's amazing. And he's like, you're. You're Wonder Woman. And then she's like, damn straight. And then we don't see Lauren again for the rest of the episode, which is so sad. They've been doing that a lot lately.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: I know.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Then in Angel's office, he's signing his name on a contract with Fancy Pen with what he ends up finding out is blood. And this scene, ladies and gentlemen, is what we like to call foreshadowing. So please pay attention. Pull out your notebooks if you have them, and mark this down. Gun talks about how it's Angel's blood and that demon law requires blood signatures on all legal documents and that it basically locks the documents. He takes them to court and files them away. And we're like, all right, got it. So then Guns telling him all the good things that angel just signed off on. He's like, you bankrupted a company that dumps raw demon waste into Santa Monica Bay, banished a clan of pyro warlocks into a hell dimension and started a foster care program for kids whose parents have been killed by vampires. Which I thought that was so cute.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: That was very cute. Callback to Anne.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Yes, that's what I was thinking. And I bet you like. Because then we have this moment where Gun's talking about how, like, he is loving this new phase of his job, that he's never felt so fulfilled. And I think, like, things like that are near and dear to his heart. And so he's like, I. I'm genuinely doing something good. And he's feeling like he's doing big things. And it's not just, like, the small, like, chipping away, but he's actually making a dent in evil.
But, you know, in contrast, Angel's just feeling, again, very disenfranchised with everything.
And then I thought it was interesting how Spike also is feeling similar as he's sitting there just going like, hey, I'm a ghost. For the sixth episode in a row. Nothing else is happening in my life. Like, all I can do is walk around and pick up mugs. Like, yeah, is there anything? Do I have any other purpose in my life? Which is what Angel's also feeling. But, you know, we see that Spike is, well, Angel, I guess, also goes towards the Shonshu. But both of them are starting to look at this Shonshu as, like, their beacon of hope.
So then Angels, like, I wish you were not here. Spikes, like if wishes were horses. And then guns, like, I know you hate working here to angel, what with the bureaucracy and the fact that most of our employees want us dead. But in house attacks are down 30 this week and we've done more good here in a month than Angel Investigations did in a year.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: And I feel like that's such a burn for angel because he likes to get in and be personal. Right. Like he likes to be hands on and that's what makes him feel like he's doing something. So to know that they're actually.
Yeah. Like to know that they're actually doing good, but he doesn't feel like he's doing good has to be a very strange wake up call for him.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I see how it'd be really hard to feel like you're helping the helpless when you're not coming face to face with the helpless. When it's just you signing documents and making calls and sending other people to do stuff. There's, there's going to be a little bit of a disconnect between you and the people you're actually trying to help. Like.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And the thing is it, this is so if, if you've ever worked in like a social service type of job, like a government job that deals with social, social service, there's a lot of like that's, that's kind of what I work in. Not kind of, it is what I work in, but it's a lot of bureaucracy. There's a lot of stuff where when you're working day to day corporate job, you don't really feel like you're helping anybody, even though you are actively doing things to help people. And once in a while it's nice to talk to somebody who tells you that you help them personally. Right. Because everybody at that point becomes a number to you. Like, oh, I saved, I helped this many people and you don't know who they are, you don't know how you help them, but you know that you did. So it's really easy to feel disconnected and it's really easy to kind of like lose empathy a little bit for the little people because you're not seeing them, you're not connecting with them on a human to human level. It's very much like a process that you're following. It's very monotone. It's very going through the motions. And I think that's what angel is feeling right now. And I think that's so true to working a corporate job in real life. Especially like I said in for example, like a government job where you're dealing with social services and you're helping like disenfranchised people.
So I really relate to that because it's Literally, my. Like every day that is kind of like this. And sometimes I'll talk to someone and they'll. We'll have that, like, human connection. And then I kind of remember that, like, yeah, like, I am helping people. And it's not just, you know, pushing papers around and doing processes that are flawed and whatever. Like, we. There is a difference that's being made, but it takes a while. Like, it. You have to get snapped out of it. And I think that's what this episode does. He, like, comes face to face with the embodiment of helping somebody, and that's kind of what snaps him out of it. And I thought that was really relatable.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we. We often go, man, why? Like, speaking as a United States citizen, we often go, like, why does my state representative. Why does my congress person not quite understand why are things not happening a certain way? And oftentimes laws and stuff are passed that we don't agree with and don't understand. We're like, how. This is common sense. How do they not know? And I think there is. That's because there is this disconnect often with their. To them, it's just passing another legislative thing so that they can do something else, and they forget that it. Each of these things have consequences that affect real life people. Um, and so, yeah, it's. I love that this is addressing that, because that would absolutely happen in this situation. Because Angel's no longer that small little, you know, investigative service that people literally walk in and he deals. Like, he handles the paperwork and he also deals with them face to face. And he goes and, like, destroys the demon, and then he comes back and then money actually exchanges hands. Like, there's a lot of stuff that has been removed directly. And so that would lead to him being like, man, what am I doing this for?
All this talk of disconnect gave me flashbacks to d oblique, and I was like, it's time to go find deal bleak again and get connected. Angel, let's go. Maybe Kate's there. Who knows?
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Kate is off on some cop show somewhere.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Some cop show. Yeah, she went. She decided to become like, reality TV or. Yeah, yeah. Could you imagine Kate doing something completely different?
But again, this is. This goes back to what Doyle warned Angel back in City of that if you aren't connected to humanity, you're going to start to see them as food. Like, you're going to start to see them as beings that are not worthy of respect and dignity and worthy of being saved. But so Spike is over here Going, how can you complain? You're living, you know, the high life. You've got new clothes, new cars, all this stuff.
And you feel disconnected. He's like, but I feel disconnected because I can't even touch anyone. I can't do anything. And he says, not many fates worse than that, I'd wager. And then we cut directly to the masked mailman, which immediately, tonally sets a correlation. We're like, okay, so this guy has a story to be told.
And you know, they're like, okay, maybe that. And then Wesley walks in with a report, says that three people were found with their hearts cut out in east la. And the masked mailman kind of like stops. He's listening. And Wes continues on and says that they think that, or he thinks that it's more demonic than a murderous nut job. The masked mailman starts to leave the room and they continue to talk about how they should check it out. And then gun. And angel notice that the mailman forgot an envelope. And so angel goes to bring it to him and the man just doesn't hear. And so he taps him on the shoulder and then instantly the mailman throws angel through his office window, smashing it to pieces. And then continues to push his car. And then we just like hold on the smashed window as Andrew or as angel goes, I really hate this place.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Another window down. It's been a while since we've seen angel go through a long while.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: Yay, we're back.
Back to the beginning.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Honestly, the longest lasting relationship on this show is Angel. Angel with windows and doorways just breaking property.
[00:30:44] Speaker A: So true.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Smashing glass.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: I was gonna say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Talking about the. The trope. But then I was like, hang on, that doesn't work in this situation because it definitely is broken.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah, many broken things.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Many, many broken windows. But now he can afford it. It's great.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: True.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: We don't have to keep asking. How in the world is Angel? Like he had, oh, time to go sell another art piece to pay for another broken window.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: I just had kind in that he just never paid for any of it. He just disappeared into the night. Nobody ever saw him again. He's like, the hell is this guy that broke my window?
[00:31:18] Speaker A: I saved your life. You're welcome.
[00:31:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I feel like you.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: May gaze upon my handsome vicious visage in exchange for you paying for the window that I broke.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Deal. Honestly, I would take that deal.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: It's like, come break my window anytime, Angel.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Break all my windows. Hehe. And my doors Your mom would be so over.
[00:31:39] Speaker A: She's like, out. Out.
[00:31:44] Speaker B: She would just continue sitting on the couch and just, like, stare at him and just be like, what are you doing?
[00:31:49] Speaker A: He'd leave, and then she'd yell at you and be like, you know, he's fixing that, right?
When's he coming back to fix it?
So then angel sits up. Everyone rushes to him, like, oh, my gosh. What happened? Angel's like, the male guy threw me. And then they. They all don't believe him. They're like, what? Number five? And then Spike's like, he did this? Isn't he, like, a hundred years old? And then Gun talking. I know. Literally, Gun gets on the phone, and he's like, angel was attacked. Lock it down. And he's like, the mail guy, number five. And then Wesley's like, well, why did he attack you? Angel's like, I was trying to give him the mail. God's like, security's on it. We'll find him. I just. The irony of Gun being the one to call security to go find this guy when Gun was literally the person that angel would call to, like, mess up security when they were trying to break into Wolfram and Heart is just sweet, sweet irony.
Angel's embarrassed. He's like, this is just a thing. Like, you know, maybe I startled him. God's like, we're not.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Angel's literally being so reasonable. He's being the most reasonable out of everybody. He's like, guys, maybe it was just an understanding. We don't need to do all this. And then Spike comes in. He's like, angel attacked an elderly person?
[00:33:01] Speaker A: He's totally. I was like, and this is how misinformation is spread. And then tabloids, literally. He, like, hears one thing, translates it in his mind to what he wants it to be, seriously spits it out.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: And then he's audacity to call angel dramatic when I'm like, every time you open your mouth, Drama. It's drama, drama, drama, drama.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: Literally.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. And then Gun's like, all right, security found him. They're escorting him off the premises. He's like, you do want him fired. Angel's like, hang on. Like, this is escalating far beyond what I wanted. Wesley's like, I think it's best. And Angel's like, look, I'm fine. Like, let's just get back to the bodies. Lauren walks in. Oh, I forgot Lauren was in this scene. He's like, holy tornado. It's true. And Spike's like, yeah, it was Amazing. Angel went right off on the male guy. I was like, dude. But honestly, I can't blame him. He is invisible. Not invisible. He's not. Is non corporeal. He has to make his own.
[00:33:56] Speaker B: He has to have fun somehow.
[00:33:57] Speaker A: This is what he's got to do, you know? Lauren's like, oh, man, I'm so mad I missed it. This must have been one major smackdown. And just, like, there was no smacking. And Lauren's like, that's not what I'm hearing. Word is on the web. You sucker punched Grandpa Moses.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: He just like, there's a blog post.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: Harmony's out there. Like, guys, you would never believe what happened at Wolfram and Heart. What is it? XOXO Gossip Girl. Harmony over there.
[00:34:23] Speaker B: Harmony will, like, like, say that it's her.
[00:34:25] Speaker A: She'll be like, that's true.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: This xoxo, Harmony Harm. Harmonica.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: Yeah. She's like, xoxo, Harmonica. Harmonica and Looney Tunes. Bringing you the newest Goss and Spike. Yeah, Spike actually would be over there. Spike's like, don't put my name in it. Just, you know, I can be the. What is it? Source close to the subject.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Source. Yeah, source close to the subject.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: An anonymous source.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: The most unreliable narrator known to man. Yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker A: And then Lauren, of course, the PR specialist, is over there, like, oh, my gosh. Once everyone hears that you beat up innocent old men, no it's ever gonna walk across to you ever again. And Spike's like, yeah, the geriatric. The geriatric community will be soiling their nappies when they hear you're on the case. Gives them a thumbs up. Bravo. Angel's like, I literally did not beat anybody up. Let's just focus on what's important. Like, Wes's bodies. Fred's like, like, Wesley has bodies.
Did she think, like, a body count? Like, the amount of misinformation is, like, so rapidly. Ken's like, no, no. Someone found three bodies. Wesley's like, four. Another one was just found in a church after an All Souls mass. And then Wesley explains its prayers to the departed. And Spike's like, you should know that, being departed and all. And I'm just like, I really do love how they're playing into Spike strengths here. Like, he's always been very good at getting under character skin when. Yeah. Beat them up. So this is just like. This is his sweet spot right now.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: He was so good in this episode. Just such a little disturber.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Some of that, like, toxic positivity that they had from the last episode carried over. He's like, you know, I'm positive about all the wrong things. Today. I'm going to be a medicine, a whole new level.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: And just, like, spread rumors. Yeah, completely.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Honestly, that's what I would be doing constantly. And then just, like, sit back and watch it just explode. Glorious.
I like imagining him dancing from the last episode as he's, like, listening to all the chaos. So then Wesley's like, today was a special service. It's Mexican Day of the Dead. Dia de los Muertos. And then Angel's like, all right. So then he's like, on the case. He takes this red convertible, and it's like, old times. You have angel gun Wesley, and then Spike sitting front seat as the role. I don't know why they didn't just sit on him at that point. Like, he's non corporeal. Why are you letting him have the front seat? Just sit on it.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Called shotgun.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: I love how west.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: There are rules in this life.
No.
[00:37:05] Speaker A: What?
[00:37:05] Speaker B: He's so British. Is there a shotgun? Do you call shotgun in England? Is that a thing?
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Why are you asking me? I am not in England.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: You're like, do you. Yes, Yes. I would totally know that about a country I've never been to or visited ever before.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Some of our British listeners let us know. Is that a thing that you guys do?
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you call shotgun? And if not, do you just grab a literal shot? I feel like that's not what British people do.
[00:37:31] Speaker B: They don't have weapons. Only in America.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Yeah. What a weird, like, conflation of both American and British. Yeah, Just America. Yes. Yes, we know.
We're aware.
I do know that. Leia.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: I am from there. Have personality.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: I am from there.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: From that. Yeah. I lived in Texas for two and a half years.
Two and a half years. My life. Yeah, it's not good. I. I have some stories, and it was just as Texan as you think it would be.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: Oh, God.
[00:38:02] Speaker A: Anyway, all right, ask me about it later.
So then at one point, like, they're all just talking. Angel's silent. And then Wesley's like, hey, angel, the church we're looking for is about half a mile. Angel swerves the car off the side of the road, stopping with a screech near the entrance of the alley, and then just gets out of the car, slams it shut. And I was like, this is like when your mom is mad at you because you left your backpack at home, and she gives you the silent treatment, is driving, like, all mad, and then gets out and just, like, slams the door. And you're just like, I'm gonna sit in here for a minute. Because it's. This is the only piece I'm going to get for the rest of the day. And, yeah, that was.
[00:38:35] Speaker B: And then Spike pipes up, and he goes, drama queen.
[00:38:38] Speaker A: Okay. That's like.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: He's always been a bit of a drama queen.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Seriously, Glass House is in the drama.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Spike is the biggest drama queen in the Buffyverse. I mean, everything that comes out of his mouth in this episode is just drama. Like, when he's talking about, if somebody was coming after my heart, I would try to steal their heart first. Because poetry.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: You know what? I. I'm gonna make a tick. Tock. I'm gonna use that. That sound. I'm gonna have Spike go, always was a bit of a drama queen. And then I'm going to cut and put every single moment. Please do dramatic after that, because I'm.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: Drowning in you, Summers. I'm drowning in you. Has there ever been a more dramatic.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: Line by falling on a steak in a Hawaiian shirt, and he draped himself.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: On a cross while he was crying.
[00:39:30] Speaker A: Can we rest now? I've had a soul for literally two weeks, and I want to die.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: Oh, my God. There is this post on Tumblr where somebody wrote, spike, can we rest now? Buffy, can we rest? And then underneath it is like, you know, I don't know if anybody likes Tiffany New York, like, Tiffany Pollard New York, but there's this one scene where she. She's talking to somebody. She goes, not you. You can choke.
That's the response to can we rest now? And I'm like, yes, exactly.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: My thought is, get up, man. Like, soul ain't going to save itself. Like, you've got work to do. Let's go. Anyway, whatever.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Anyway, yes. Drama queen. He's a drama queen. And it's not a bad thing. But, like, stop rejecting Spike. Yeah, you're both drama queens.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: Hilarious thing.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Let's be honest.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: I think this episode is actually gonna drop the same night that we also dropped beneath you on Becoming Buffy. So the total differences. You're gonna hear me talk about it there and here several months later. That's funny. Anyway, all right. So Spike, Wesley and Gun follow Angel. They've stopped at the side of the body. Spike's like, too late. Okay. And then Gun's like, so you what, heard his scream? Angel's, like, walking away into disgust. And then Wesley's inspecting the body, and Spikes like he spilled the blood. Nothing grabs a vamp's attention like the ruby red. And then Gun's like, notice no how. Notice no matter how uptown we go, we always wind up in some stinky hole in the middle of the night. And Wesley's like, his heart's missing. Looks like it was cut out. He's like, it. Based on the blood splatters, I'd say it was still beating when it was removed. Angel's like, this just happened. And they're like. Like, wait, man, I wonder if it's still here. And Spike's like, I'd say it is 10 to 11ft. And they turn around, there's like, snarling demon dressed in, like, armor, complete with, like, a helmet. He's got lots of pointed teeth, wrinkly, yellowish gray skin. Armed with a sword. Angel starts to go after it. Wesley grabs his shotgun. I love how he, like, shoots straight at the breastplate with the demon's whole midriff, arms, face and legs showing. And he's like, dang it, it's not working. Wow. Guess it can't be shot with bullets.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Its.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: And it's like, well, maybe shoot a part of its body that's not armored before you make that assessment. True.
The demon ends up overpowering them, especially angel, throwing him into a pile of boxes. And then punches Wesley. And then Gun ends up swinging his ax into the back of the demon. And Gun's like, yeah, I've got this. But then the demon turns around, punches at gun, and then ends up taking off.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: Off.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: And, well, at first, it's at pushing a trash can into angel, who had 30 business days to get out of the way of this trash can and just stood there like, I deserve this. Come get me.
And I was like, well, you know. And this was another callback to. Was it do Bleak? It was an. Oh, no, it was that episode with the super powered girl with the trash can that she used to, like, smash and touch. Yeah, it was untouched. I was gonna say unleashed, but that's the wrong one.
But, yeah, I was like, come on, Angel. Like, you're real rusty. We need to get you back on the streets.
[00:42:43] Speaker B: Because you know what, though? I did love that we got to see all the boys fighting again. Like, it's been such a long time since we've seen Gun fight and Wesley fight. And, like, just the boys, you know, Just the boys fighting. And I miss that.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Yeah, Spike over there trying to grab a plank and nothing.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel bad for Spike.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Useless.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: He doesn't want it enough.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Nope. Doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't want to help. He's like, oh, I tried, guys. Sorry. My bad.
Anyway, all right. Back in the science lab, Fred's inspecting the blade of Gun's ax under a magnifying glass. And he's like, you know, we tried everything. The only souvenir we got with the Was the gunk on this blade. We thought you could do some tests. She uses a lot of, like, big language that I don't think makes any sense. And then Gun's like, yes, give me a shout out when you know something. And then Spike appears and is like, hey, Like, I'm trying to put as much distance between myself and Grumpy Pants as my ghost leash allows. And then Fred's like. He just gets like that sometimes. Not easy being a champion. You know that. And then Spike says, really?
[00:43:48] Speaker B: Don't.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: And Fred says, come on, you saved the world, sacrificed yourself close to Hellmouth. And Spike says, probably the first thing I've 100% agreed with him on. Didn't do much, really. I just stood there, let the fire come. Nothing real heroic about that. And I'm like, he's figuring it out. He's figuring it out that he's just allowing things to happen. He's not actually dictating and, like, taking up his redemption arc in both hands and being like, all right, I'm gonna pursue this.
[00:44:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's the thing, Spike. His sacrifice was noble.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: But it was an accident.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: 100%. James Marsters. There's a quote where he even talks about this.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: Yes, I've seen that quote. And I. I just find it really interesting that even he says that, because that's always how I viewed it, because anybody who would have worn that amulet would have done the same exact thing, and nobody knew what was going to happen. Like, that's the whole thing. He didn't know that he was going to die. He didn't know what the amulet was going to do. And again, I just want to reiterate that his sacrifice was noble. The fact that he stayed down there and he burned is noble. But that doesn't make him a champion.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: It also follows through with what we've been talking about with Beneath youh. Him wanting to die rather than continue this journey. Because, as we've seen with angel, the tension between the black and the white that morally cray. Is so, so hard. It's harder than it. Than to just give up and be like, all right, I'm gonna die. And then I, hey, my decision is made for me. I can go out with a bang, and I don't have to sit here and constantly, like, deal with this conflict of my nature versus my soul.
And so, like, yes, it is noble, but also, it was kind of the easy way out too.
So. Yep, we're gonna get so much hate for that. But I stand by it. And I think this season is also.
[00:45:40] Speaker B: Just go read the quote by James Marsters. I mean, I feel like James Marsters says it really, really well, and I totally agree with it. And that doesn't make Spike a bad person or a bad character. It just means that it.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: He's got room to grow.
[00:45:57] Speaker B: He's got room to grow, and we get to watch that happen on this show. And I love that, you know?
[00:46:03] Speaker A: Yep. Totally agreed.
So then in Wesley's office, he's working with an assistant. They're cross referencing all the weapons listed against both Aztec and Incan artifacts. And then someone hands Wesley an envelope with, like, it's. It's like a. A supposed to be, like, a picture basically, of what they're. What they're going up against with the demon. Angel walks in, is like, how are we doing? And Wesley's like, you know, I think that we're looking at prehistoric texts, specifically Mesoamerican. And Angel's kind of just like, yeah, cool, great. He's like, you'll find it. We'll figure out a way to stop it. Then I'll stop it, because that's what we do. I was like, somebody lacks conviction. Wesley's starting to figure this out, too. And he's like, hey, like, all right, I'll see you later. And then as he sits down to read, Spike is looking over his shoulder and is like, hey, is that one of those books on prophecies? Wesley's like, no, it's a source book.
And he points to another book lying on a table and says, that's the one dedicated to prophecies. And Spike starts to fish about the Shonshu. And he. Wesley says, it's a tale of epic apocalyptic battle and a vampire with the soul who plays a major role on the battlefield. And there's a suggestion that the vampire will get to live again. And spikes. Like, when you mean, like, plays a major role in the apocalyptic battle, do you mean, like, heroically closing a helm out that was supposed, like, to destroy the world? Like, maybe. And Wesley's like, the text isn't specific about the battle. And then it's not specific about the vampire either. And then he, like, looks at Spike and is like, who isn't a ghost? And Spike. Spike's like, it's a bunch of nonsense. It's a Bedtime story to get vampires to play nice. And Wesley, like, says, you. And Spike's like, no. Angel says that. And he says he doesn't believe in the Sean show anymore, which gets Wesley's attention. He says it's a sucker game. And then the assistant comes back in. Like, Wesley leaves. And then we see Spike running his hand over the prophecy book. And we're like, ooh, he can touch it. He wants it bad.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: But that's the thing. That's the thing that, like, I can't wait to see more of. Does Spike really want to be human?
[00:48:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Or does he just want to beat Angel? Or just does he want to, like. Yeah.
[00:48:24] Speaker B: Or is he just in a position right now where he doesn't have anything and he's clinging to, like, anything that might give him some type of hope? Because I just can't see Spike as being somebody who would ever actually want to be human.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah. It's true. He does. He does relish in being the vampire with the power.
Yeah.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: And he's said more than once that he has no desire to atone, you know?
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: That's so true. What does he get out of this other than taking something away from Angel?
[00:48:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I know. I mean, I do think there's probably an aspect of, like, he's tired of living in this state of meaningless existence.
[00:49:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: Which I think they are trying to use as a metaphor for his actual soul journey. Of that meaningless existence of constantly being used as a prop for other people, which is kind of the state of the vampire. So, look, I. I just hope they make it clearer moving forward what exactly his motivations are, which I think they will.
So then, back in Angel's office, Wesley hands all that he's found to Angel. Spike sitting on a chair nearby. Wesley says it's an Aztec demon named has cat cattle. We don't know a lot about it yet. Our codex is missing several key pictographs. What we do know is that he's been here before. 50 years ago to the day. He says that it might be a coincidence. They're trying to figure out why it's here, what he wants. They say Wolfram and Hart has brief records. According to this, Tezcat cattle rose in the same place. East Los Angeles killed over a dozen people before it was finally defeated by five heroes. Brothers that were the champions of the time. And he says they, they. They destroyed the demon, but at quite a price. All the brothers were killed except for one. And then Spike's like.
But, like, the brothers either didn't really finish the demon off. Or it's figured out a way to come back from wherever they sent it. And then Angel's like, well, you said one of the brothers is alive or survived. Is he still alive? And Wesley's like, hey, we. Because Angel's like, oh, do we have his number again? That idea number connection, like. Like the phones, all that stuff. And Wesley's like, as a matter of fact, we do. We go to an apartment building. Angel knocks on the door, and sure enough, it's the masked mailman.
So then Angel's like, hi. The mailman grabs angel without angel having asked for an invitation and just pulls him straight. So does it work if, like, he.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: I guess they don't have to say it out loud now, pulling him.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: Well, we did establish that, right? It was like an open invitation. So somewhere along the line, this guy invited angel.
[00:50:59] Speaker B: Told angel, you're welcome him to come to my house.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: He wrote it down in a piece of mail. Or like, he gave angel some maybe piece of paper apartment.
[00:51:09] Speaker B: Maybe his apartment is owned by Wolfram and Hart. And Since. Since Angels D.C. o. Of Wolfram and Hart, then he owns the apartment. But we also never get confirmation of that. So very bizarre.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I think this is just inconsistency, but whatever. He pulls them in. And Angel's like. Like, I wasn't going to. I just wanted to give you some mail. And Number Five's like, no, you were going to drag me into your quest for the Aztec demon. Angel's like, yeah, well, now I am. So then he throws Number Five across the room and says, I need your help. I know about you and your brothers. The Number Five. Number Five is like, I've retired from that life. Angel says, wearing that mask doesn't exactly hide your past. And Number Five says, it reminds me that only a fool would want to be a champion. So what went from, like, an identity of helping people? Feels like now I'm a fraud. Feels like now I'm reminding myself of the failure that I was or that I am.
And then Angel's like, fool, Is that what you think of your brothers? Number Five punches Angel and says, never disrespect the memory of my brothers. They were honorable men, luchadores, Mexican wrestlers. The greatest that ever lived. And then he's like, together we were known as the Los Hermanos Numeros. And then Angels, like, the Number Brothers, seize the shrine. And then we get a little bit of a flashback to where they're all five brothers are wrestling. They wrestle, like, in sync together. Like they're just at the top of their gang. You hear Number Five, voiceover say, we were great warriors in the ring. Children worshiped us. Women loved us. Men wanted to be us. And all the years we fought, we never lost, never quit, never compromised. We were the best. You see a man in the audience stand up wielding a shotgun. The men, like, take him out. And then Number Five says, you need to understand we were more than just luchadore. We. No one else cared about Mexicans or Chicanos, so we protected our own. The five of us were always joined, always connected. There it is. And when necessary, we came together as a fist. We fought monsters and gangsters, vampires. We were heroes. We protected the weak and we helped the helpless. We're like, oh, I see what you're doing. Angel's like, brought me too. I know a little something about that. Number Five says, we spent every waking hour together. So we get several flashbacks of them playing cards at a bar. They're, like, flirting with women at the same time.
And they always wear their masks. Angels like, you guys always wear your masks. Number Five says, what you're failing to see, my friend, is that we had to be ever vigilant, ready for action at a moment's notice. And then we get back to the bar scene, and the telephone rings. Number Five answers it. The mission, the heroes call. And then they all go out. And then we have, you know, that funny moment. He's like, surely you've heard about our great victory over the devil's robot. Angel's like, no, I have not. He's like, nobody remembers the good stuff. And then he talks about the Aztec warrior. We don't really see exactly what happens, but we know that all of his brothers were killed. And he won't tell angel about any specifics about how he killed it or anything. He says he tried to carry on. And then we see him back at the bar, sitting alone at a table. And then the telephone's right next to him, but it's not ringing. And then a man walks in, gives him a visit. Business card labeled Wolfram and Hart, Attorneys at Law. And then it says Holland Manors on it. So supposed to be Holland Manners recruiting him, which is really cool because there's a lot of callbacks to, like, the last time angel was disillusioned. And that was in season two in Epiphany. Was it Epiphany? It was Reprise Epiphany. All that. And then we have that speech that he gives Number Five later on that mirrors the speech that he gave Kate. There's some musical callbacks as well. And there's also.
[00:54:55] Speaker B: There's also the scene with Wesley where it's a callback to. To Shanshu in la.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:01] Speaker B: When he's talking to Cordelia in the office about how angel doesn't want anything and that he's just kind of existing.
So that was a really cool callback, too.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I didn't even think about that one. I was also thinking about how, like, you know, Number Five was approached by Wolfram and Hart just like angel was approached by Wolfram and Hart. And how, like, apparently they've done this before. They have a playbook book on disillusioned heroes and recruiting them for them to say, hey, exploitation, good. Yep. And then they eventually become like, oh, man, I'm not actually helping anymore. Am I actually helping anymore? And then they just stop fighting altogether, which is what the cautionary tale of numero cinco is all about.
So then he says, Number Five says, I needed a job. They needed muscle. I knew that Wolfram and Heart was everything my brothers despised. But what did I care? Nothing mattered after I buried them beneath San Gregario. Every year on El Dia de los Muertos, I prepared this altar for them. And every year, they never come, never visit, because I am not worthy. But it does not matter anymore. Not after this year. I should have died with my brothers. And then he touches a gold medallion, which you're like, oh, that's going to be significant.
And so then angel says, why did you stop caring? You got stuck with the hard part, the carrying on. No wonder your brother's spirits never came to visit. Listen to yourself. You've quit. Number Five says, it was not hard, and I will show you. And then he takes him to a wrestling arena. And we see five small people wearing colorful numbered masks fighting in an obvious, like, replica of what they used to do. But it's very comedic. And Number Five says, this is how my brothers are remembered, what their good deeds earned. They sacrificed their lives as heroes, and it is played out, a farce. And he just says, maybe you expect too much from people. And Number Five says, is it too much to expect them to remember their past? To honor those that fought and died? My brothers are dead. And Tezcat cattle is back to kill again. Why did we bother? What difference did we make?
And then angel gives a kind of abridged version of the speech that he gave Kate. But I like how the way that he does it, he's kind of like staring at the wrestlers without actually seeing them. Kind of, like, remembering that moment.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: It almost seems like he's trying to convince himself as much as he's trying to convince Number Five.
[00:57:17] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
And so then he turns around after his speech, and Number Five is gone. So then back in Wesley's office, they're researching, and Wesley's like, man, the Aztec culture was really violent. And Gun's like, yeah, because our culture is so at peace. Wesley's like, well, we don't eat our victims. And guns like, like, okay, well, you got that file on the lady from the All Souls Mass? And then they start to put pieces together, and they realize that the demon is actually going after heroes and in cutting out their hearts. And in the meantime, Wesley's kind of, like, probing Gun about Angel. He's like, does he seem all right to you? Gun again says, disconnect. And he says, you know, he's still doing the hero thing.
And then we cut to the street where angel walks. Walks back out of the arena, sees Number Five in a bus just, like, taking off. And just, like, so much for my stirring speech. The demon jumps up behind angel, attacks him, pinning him down with a sword, and then goes for his heart. But then, like, reconsiders and then walks away. And then Angel's all like, what? No. Like, come take my heart literally.
So then back in the lobby, Angel, Gunn and Wesley are going into his office. This. And Angel's like, oh, so you think this demon's eating the heart of heroes? Well, that's an interesting theory, but it's completely wrong because he didn't eat my heart. And then he, like, starts moaning. He's like, am I honestly supposed to believe that he had no problem sticking a sword in my stomach, but then decided, oh, wait, his heart's not heroic enough? Ha. I don't think so. And Wesley's like, I understand you're feeling rejected.
And he just like, what are you. You saying?
[00:58:58] Speaker B: And they're like, acting.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: 12 again is, like, just beef jerky. It's not actually good. And the Angel's like, well, stick a piece of wood in it, and I still die. Must be something. I really like that line. It's very poetic.
[00:59:12] Speaker B: But the thing about angel is that he's in a lot of ways, like an anti hero. Like, he's very. He has an evil entity inside of him at all times, you know? So I. I get that his. He's tainted in a way. Like, he's not a pure hero.
[00:59:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:59:29] Speaker B: And that's what makes him so interesting. It's that internal struggle that he's gonna have forever. As long as he is a vampire, that makes it that way. But that doesn't mean that he can't be a hero, right?
[00:59:41] Speaker A: Well, Wesley's, like, trying to be like, hey, dude. Like, it's all physical. There's no metaphor here. He just didn't like your heart. And Angel's like, it's because I'm tainted.
[00:59:51] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Well, you are kind of, angel, but that doesn't mean that you can't still be a hero.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you can't still. It doesn't mean you can't still do good. And then he's like, wes, did you ever hear about that? That the devil built a robot? And Wesley, like, almost like, with awe. And references like El Diabro, El Diablo Robotico. And Angel's like, nobody ever tells me anything.
[01:00:15] Speaker B: This man knows everything about everything.
[01:00:18] Speaker A: Literally.
[01:00:19] Speaker B: I have a hard time believing he doesn't know about the devil's robot.
[01:00:24] Speaker A: You've been a little disconnected, Angel. It's okay. Give yourself some grace.
[01:00:27] Speaker B: Yeah, get caught up on your reading, my boy.
[01:00:29] Speaker A: So then Gun's like, I'm gonna go check with my guys in contracts. He's like, I think that if this Aztec demon got to come back, that there's probably some sort of contract that he wrote up with Wolfram and Hart. He's like, I'll figure it out. So he takes off. And Wesley's like, angel, what Gun said about your heart that dried up? I don't think that that's the problem. And Angel's like, but you do see a problem. And Wesley says, it's the work. And angel says, oh, yeah, the 18 hour days, the constant slaying of evil and the being shish kebab to a Chevy. And I was like, this is how it feels living in the US These days.
Wesley's like, I didn't say you weren't working. I'm just saying your heart's not in the work. And angel says, well, yeah, you know, I've been feeling a little bit. And then Wesley's like, disconnected. I was like, okay, guys, it's like Deoblique all over again.
[01:01:15] Speaker B: He's like, yes, I've heard connections, connections.
[01:01:19] Speaker A: He's like, you blame your melancholy on your new position. But I don't think it's about the type of work. I think it's because you've lost hope that the work has meaning. And Angels just, like, flipping through files like, yes, of course it has meaning. We save people's lives. Just like reciting the phone book. And Wesley Says, I'm talking about them, or I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about you. It's lost meaning for you. Spike says you no longer believe in the Shonshu. Angel says, of course not. The prophecies are nonsense. You know that. Oh, come on, Wes. After everything we've seen the past couple of years, the father will kill the son, and Wesley just, like, stares at him and is like, what are you talking about? Angel's like, anyways, so we're getting the work done.
[01:01:57] Speaker B: Technically, that prophecy was fulfilled.
[01:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:02] Speaker B: He did kill Connor.
[01:02:04] Speaker A: It's true. But, you know, he's not going to want to talk about that with Wesley because the whole. Whole point was to give him a clean slate. Right?
[01:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:13] Speaker A: And protect.
[01:02:14] Speaker B: I will say the one thing that. Not that I struggle with, that I find is not very effective in this episode and just in general in the season, is them bringing back the Shanu, which, like, yes, it makes sense for this season, but I feel like the Shanshu hasn't been something that Angels focused on for two seasons now.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:36] Speaker B: There's somebody trying to make it something.
[01:02:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:02:39] Speaker B: Like they're suddenly trying to make it that Angel. Angel not being invested in the Shanshu means that he's not invested in the mission. But I think that they've been very.
[01:02:49] Speaker A: Different things for a long time.
[01:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I just. I think there should have been a bit more reintroducing the Shanshu and what it would mean for angel at this point in his life.
[01:03:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:03:02] Speaker B: Because we don't know that at this point. We don't know what it means. We know that. That in season two, it meant that he would be one day forgiven, because that's what he wants. Right. But at this point, why does angel want the Shanshu now?
You know, what are his motivations? Does it mean. Is it a reward for him? Because that goes against the. If nothing we do matters and all that matters is what we do. So what is the end game in his mind? Is it just, like, anything to give him hope that there isn't light at the end of the tunnel? But we just. We haven't been in that space for so long that I wish they had just kind of reintroduced it a little bit slower.
[01:03:40] Speaker A: You would like to know a little bit more about, like, why angel wants the Shonshu? Like, we need a little bit. Because it hasn't been talked about for two to three years. And we all know that angel is a completely. Well, not completely, but he is a different character in a lot of ways than he was in season one and two. And his motivations are very different. Buffy was. Was in the picture in season two, like, him wearing the clawdaw ring and all that stuff. But now it's like, is that, like, why. Why. What are you. What. What are you hoping for? For the future for yourself?
[01:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah. It just seems like for the last two seasons, the Shonshu is not something that he's been actively working toward.
And it doesn't even seem like it's something that's been in the back of his mind. So are we meant to assume that it has been and he just has. Hasn't said anything about it, you know, so. Yeah, it's just there's a bit of a disconnect there with his motivations that I think need to be clarified a little bit.
[01:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. Totally fair.
[01:04:35] Speaker B: Because obviously they're making a huge deal out of the Shanshu in the season, which, like, makes total sense considering there's two insult vampires on the show now. So obviously they're gonna draw attention from the two of them fighting over this thing, this reward. Right, but the point is that it's. It's not supposed to be a reward, right? Like, it's. That's not the point of the Shanshu ultimately, or I guess, the mission. So I guess we'll see what happens.
[01:05:03] Speaker A: Yep. Very fair.
So then a Wesley's like, I'm sorry, angel, but nothing matters more. Hope. It's the only thing that will sustain you, that will keep you from ending up like number five. And then the phone rings, which I feel like was very intentional. Again, this idea, like, hope, hope, mission, all those things. It's Colin. And then angel picks up. He goes, yeah, it's Fred. She's got something.
We go down to the science lab. And she's like, it's the monster's eating the heart of heroes. The blood is what's keeping it alive. It acts like the. The hearts act like kind of a supercharged rocket fuel and makes it more invulnerable, or makes it invulnerable. And then Spike's like, oh, no, I could kill it. He's like, I'm sure it has an Achilles heel. And Angel's like, well, what do you think it's Achilles heel is? And then Spike's like, well, I wager it's the heart. And he's like, there's a poetic irony in. In there. He's like, it's in the poetry. He's like, we're dealing with a mythic creature here. Killer be killed kind of creature. If I was going to kill something that was trying to take my heart, I'd try to bloody well take its heart first. And then guns. Like, well, you'd be doing the right thing that stop it. For the time being, he's like, he's got to get out of jail free card. It's in his contract and he says that Wolfraine Heart has a record of it. That Tezcat cattle was one of Aztec's most powerful warriors. He forged a mystical talisman that would harness the power of their sun God, make him supremely powerful. But he got found out, was sentenced to die on the Aztec version of the Day of the Dead. And. And so he made a mystical deal.
So every 50 years he gets to come back and he's looking for that talisman. And if he can find the talisman, then basically he won't have to keep going through this.
[01:06:47] Speaker B: And it just so happens that it' in Los Angeles. Wow, what a coincidence.
[01:06:52] Speaker A: It's also really interesting too, that it was the like Aztecs sun God too. Like we had that whole thing in season four, the beast hunting down the different totems of Ratat to blot out the sun. There's that imagery of light and the sun. And if we think back to what's in the dark, that episode where angel gets asked, what do you want, Angel? He says, forgiveness. And then he gets to put on the ring and he walks into the sunlight. And that was the episode where he realized, because he was thinking, man, I can't really do very much good, he realized that his. His role is to hunt bad guys in the dark so that he can protect those in the light. And so I like again the imagery of the sun constantly coming through.
[01:07:33] Speaker B: And I also have so many callbacks in this episode.
[01:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I also just really like too that, like Buffy Summers, Sunnydale. And then how we have angel who works in the dark, I don't know, obviously was intentional, but it's just so great. But yeah, it's a reminder of his duty and his role as a protector of the dark. The night, not protector of the dark. He's not protecting the dark, but he's a protector at night. Yeah, he's like, ah, back sun. Anyways, so then they're like, all right, we need to find that talisman. And then angel goes, hang on. Once they describe it, he's like, I think I know where it is. And he remembers the medallion that was on number five shrine. So then he just races out of the room and spikes like, see? Drama. Drama queen. So then back at the apartment, he knocks on the door. No one answers. It's empty. So then he goes to the cemetery. And then we see Number Five has moved the entire shrine, pictures and candles, to the grave site. And he's performing a spell. And the idea is he wants Tezcat cattle to come and fight him one last time so that he will die a hero, so that his he will be reunited, united with his brothers. And Angel's like, it's not going to work.
He's like, he won't come. Number Five is like, he will. I'll summon him. And Angel's like, maybe, but he's not going to kill you or me. He says, missing the secret ingredient. Now give me the talisman and I'll leave you to your misery. Number Five says, I don't have it.
And then Angels looking through the shrine, like, tearing things up. And Number Five says, you are one strange man, Senor Angel. And angel says, I'm not the one in a mouth mask standing in a cemetery in the middle of the night. And Number Five says, no, but you will be. And that's really interesting because, I mean, if you guys have read the comics, there's the whole Twilight comics section. Oh, that I think they were planning on doing with season six.
And so in. In that a year later, angel hides his identity with a luchador like Matt Mask in Twilight in a. In a cemetery. So I think that might be.
[01:09:37] Speaker B: We don't blame the comics.
[01:09:40] Speaker A: No, we don't. But I think that's what they have in mind.
[01:09:44] Speaker B: What a bizarre storyline. That was.
[01:09:46] Speaker A: Very bizarre.
So then Number Five is like, you know, how are you gonna stop him in 50 years? He's gonna be back. Nothing's gonna have changed. And that's the heart of the matter. The fight never stops. Cops. And Angel's like, give it to me. And then we see the demon walking through the graveyard towards them. And Number Five says, you're right about Tezcat cattle not wanting to kill me, that I'm not a hero. So I had to find a way to fool him. I swallowed the talisman. If he wants it, he'll have to cut it out of me. I was like, you know what? That is actually a really good plan.
So then he throws angel into the nearby headstone. And then he says, you want your talisman, you're gonna have to come and get it. And so then him and the demons start to fight. And then the demon punches Number Five and he falls down. Angel gets up, grabs a Rod from the iron gate. The demon walks towards number Five with a sword pointed at his gut. But then angel uses the rod to knock him away. So it's not going to make it that easy for you. We already did this little dance, remember? They continue to fight.
Number Five says, if you're looking for heroes, you're wasting your time. The demon ends up sticking his sword into number five stomach, causing him to double over in pain. And then he stumbles over to the graves of his brothers in white, wipes his hand, his bloody hand on the gravestone, and then falls down while angel continues to fight. And then all of a sudden, hands reach out of the grave.
[01:11:08] Speaker B: Zombies?
[01:11:09] Speaker A: No, not zombies, but all of a sudden, I mean. I mean, are they zombies or are they maybe spirit?
[01:11:15] Speaker B: Like, is it just because it's spirit zombies?
[01:11:20] Speaker A: You know, the day of the. The night of the dead, and they somehow become corporeal? Real? Yeah.
[01:11:25] Speaker B: Isn't that, like, when the veil between the living and the dead is, like, the thinnest and they can, like, make their way through?
[01:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah, so that's what's probably happening. I don't think it's quite zombie like, but who knows? So they come out wearing their masks, and Number Five's like, my brothers. And then they're like, on the lay, and they, like, do a bunch of acrobatics. They run straight to the same iron fence that angel grabbed his rod, and then they head on over. I like the little symmetry there of, like, how all heroes think the same angel standing there, like, as they're just, like, dancing past him. And then number four stops and goes, amigo undelay. So that angel grabs his iron rod, heads over, they all fight. And Angel's like, hang on. We're trying to kill it, not pin it. But one by one, all of the guys end up pinning each of the demon's appendages down to the ground. And then angel goes, okay, pinning works. Grabs his iron rod and drives it through the demon's heart. It turns to death, blessed. And then number five's like, my brothers, they came back. And angel says, because you're worthy. You proved it. Number Five says, maybe, but still, the demon did not want my heart. And angel goes, he didn't want mine either.
[01:12:32] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:12:34] Speaker A: It's like. I don't know why. It's like, oddly emotional like.
[01:12:37] Speaker B: It is. I got emotional watching that scene.
[01:12:40] Speaker A: And it is.
[01:12:42] Speaker B: It really reminded me. I mean, it's not similar in any way, shape, or form, but it reminded me of. Of the same feeling. I Had when we watched Are you now or have you ever been? When Judy passes away in her bed and angel kind of sees her off, that's how the scene kind of felt as well. In terms of, like, emotional punch.
[01:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I just. I think that idea of, like, seeing someone who's fought so long and so hard finally get, like, peace, I think is really nice. Because we don't see that very often on this show, especially with Angel. And I think we also desperately want that for angel, that I think we resonate with him when he sees somebody else achieving that, you know?
[01:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:13:23] Speaker A: It's the closest we're all gonna get, seriously. So the number 5's like the talismans in the coffee, something. Angel jumps out the thermos, and he's like, oh. And then number five is like, I may be a hero, but I am not a fool. And then he dies. His brothers pick him up and carry him away as angel watches. And then they're gone. And then now, I don't know if you saw the tombstone. It's five instead of four. It was really poetic and very beautiful.
[01:13:48] Speaker B: It is.
[01:13:50] Speaker A: So then back at Wesley's office, Angel hands the talisman to Wesley. Spike, Fred and Gun are all there waiting. And angel tells him to put it someplace safe. Wesley's like, are you okay? I know you've been feeling. And then Angel's like, I'm fine. Got the job done. That's what's important. It's been a long day. See you guys in the morning. And Fred's like, so number five, he jumped in and helped at the end. And Angel's like, he died a hero. And then they all just kind of quietly leave. And then. I love this part.
It's, like, late at night, and angel walks back into Wesley's office. And then he stops in the room with all the books and picks up the prophecy book and whispers in Sean's show. Prophecy, English Translation and I love this moment. And I know you and I were talking about this, so there's a very, like, significant theme that plays right here. And I was listening to it, and I was like, hang on, I've heard this before. Like, where have I heard this?
And it plays. And then you have the. The guitar that has been playing all episode play. So you have, like, the number five theme and they intertwine together. And I thought that was so cool. But that's actually like, Darla and Angel's theme. So Darla and Angel's theme comes from a little bit of Darla's own personal theme. And there's variations of it throughout the entire show. You can hear it specifically when Darla is talking to angel at the end of the episode Darla, where she asks him to change her. And then when she says that it's time for him to pay back her favor. And he says, you damned me. And then when he refuses to eat the baby and says, I can't seem to be what I'm not. And then it's the same theme that played in Offspring, when Darla has that, like, meltdown, realizing that the baby has a soul. And then when she talks about loving Connor on the rooftop. And then when she stakes herself for Connor and Lullaby, it plays again when Cordelia is ascending and angel goes down into the ocean. It's just the more minor, like, kind of like scarier theme omnis feeling. And then we also have it in Inside Out. There's a variation of it with the chord progression when Darla begs Connor not to kill the girl. And then a variation of it is played in Home when Angel confronts Connor, when he has the bomb strapped to him and stuff. And so there this theme is played, variations all over. And like, you and I were trying to figure out, like, what do we think this symbolizes and stuff. And I really do think we talked a lot about how Darla having a soul, an angel feeling like he was going to help her. Like, Darla was a symbol of redemption and hope for him in a lot of ways, because he's like, if Darla can find peace and if Darla can find redemption, maybe there's hope for me. Me. And then we have, once Connor was born, his idea of him finding family and maybe, like, a life here. And then also the chance to, like, do things differently with Connor. And then that's why we have the more convoluted minor key of it all playing, because it's showing how everything's being torn down again. And so I like that that theme played here because I think it's a call back to those moments, but it's also kind of Angels getting a bit of that hope that he had in those moments here with the Sean Shu. And, yeah, it's very beautiful.
[01:17:02] Speaker B: So I love that.
[01:17:05] Speaker A: On top. I know. I was listening to it. I was like, I heard this theme and I could not remember. So I literally went back and I was like, okay, I'm gonna find it. Yeah, I found it.
[01:17:15] Speaker B: But, yeah, I found it.
[01:17:16] Speaker A: I did.
[01:17:17] Speaker B: What a great episode.
[01:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was just nice to, like.
[01:17:21] Speaker B: There'S still so much, like, when I was watching it, I picked up on so much, and I don't think I remember it all right now. Now. But it's just such a rich episode, and I feel like every time I watch it, I get something new out of it. So I cannot relate to somebody who watches this and says that it's boring or. This episode is so incredibly important for the season and for the show as a whole. And, yeah, I just loved it.
[01:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'll be. I'll be honest. Like, the first several times that I watched, I thought it was boring, too. I was like, there's absolutely no substance. We could do away with this episode. But having watched at this last time, I was shocked at how many little, like, throwbacks they have and how many things that they are referencing for in the future and then just how hopeful it is. And it's just nice to have a hopeful episode.
[01:18:05] Speaker B: It feels earned. Like, angel opening up the prophecy at the end feels like the natural conclusion of this episode.
[01:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:18:15] Speaker B: And you see how he gets there through spending time with number Five and, you know, trying to find the demon and all that. So that's. I really like that about that as well. So we'll see what happens next, I guess.
[01:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Next episode's one of my favorites of the season. I'm so excited.
[01:18:34] Speaker B: Which one's the next one?
[01:18:36] Speaker A: It's Lineage.
[01:18:38] Speaker B: Oh.
[01:18:41] Speaker A: One of the sexiest moments to me in this series.
[01:18:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:18:44] Speaker A: Gonna go back and watch that multiple times.
[01:18:46] Speaker B: I know.
[01:18:47] Speaker A: I'm very excited. It's a Wesley centric episode, and we haven't had one of those in a while, and it's about time. So very excited about it, but. All right, guys, let us know your thoughts on this episode. I know for a lot of people it's a miss, but I. I'm just curious if you caught anything that we didn't. Do you feel like this episode is necessary to the. The season? Do you guys.
I don't know, do you guys enjoy watching, like, more standalone episodes? Do you prefer it when it's more serialized? But yeah. Let us know your thoughts, and we will see you guys next time. Thanks so much for listening to Investigating Angel. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Angel Podcast, and you can email [email protected].
