Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating a Movie and television Rewatch podcast where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are doing our season one recap. We're going to do a spoiler free section, version, whatever you want to call it.
So in the, for in the front half of this episode and then the second half, I'll tell you guys when we're about to do our spoilers and stuff.
And yeah, it's gonna be really fun. And normally I would be like just going to do spoiler free, but I think with this season in particular, I really wanted to talk about spoilers because there's a lot of parallels like we were talking about with the last season. We also just saw the last season. So this will be really fun to talk about. But also I will say like 90 of the comments and questions and etc that we got from you guys were spoilers. So I was like, well, most of this is going to be spoilers, so.
Yeah. Yeah. But.
All right, starting us off, Leia, your overall thoughts of season one. I know this is essentially like a first time viewing in a lot of ways, but after having seen like the entire show, do you feel like you have a different takeaway from this season?
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think I have a different takeaway about this fifth season now.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Because it had been. It's been so long for me since I've watched season one that I kind of forgot like a lot of the stuff that went on in it.
But yeah, it was, it was great. I mean, I, I know why I liked the show from like the get go when I started watching it, but yeah, it's, it's very interesting. I'm sure, like, we'll, we'll talk about it more when we get to the spoiler section. But yeah, I find that rewatching season one has made me rethink some of my opinions or like how I perceive season five now.
But yeah, great season.
Yeah, I really liked it. What did you think?
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, so good, so good. I mean, I feel weird because it's like my fourth time watching this season this year, but I, I. This year? Yeah, this year in the past like five months actually, which I think is wild because I don't think I ever did that with Buffy. To be fair, this is a lot less than.
[00:02:50] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: First season.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: The show was off the, like, the show was on hiatus for so long.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: It's like by the time it came back, you like, you needed to re. Watch it, I feel like, to. To watch the new season, which obviously I didn't do, but I'm doing it now.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: You're like, you needed to re. Watch it, but which obviously I didn't do.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: You needed to do what I say.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Not as I do.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Not me.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: You. Yeah, you. You really need to be prepared for this. This podcast, Sarah, so I can react to everything that you have to say.
No. This season, I just. It was really fun going through it again in a more analytical perspective. It was fun going through with you who, like, it was almost like a first time watching. You didn't remember a lot of things, so I appreciated your perspective on it. But I also really liked going through it on a deeper level. And I will say the show was not a ton deeper than I thought it was going to be. And I kind of knew going in, like we talked about in our first episode, there wasn't going to be a lot of metaphor and such. It's pretty literal show for the most part. There's an episode here or there where there's stuff you can pull out that's more subtextual. But I. I was actually pleasantly surprised by how much I learned contextually about what's happening historically in the 80s and how that really informed the way that the Duffers wrote the series.
And I found that I learned a lot about just like, historically what was going on. And then I really liked how we could see the subversions of the tropes from the 80s and kind of how our society just does things so much differently, views things differently, but also a lot of the things that is coming back around and we're doing the same within this cultural zeitgeist, you know, So I really appreciated that. I had a lot of fun with that. And then I also really enjoyed kind of looking at the individual characters a little bit deeper and kind of thinking ahead to how that's going to inform later decisions they make.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: That was. I was gonna say.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: I think this rewatching this season has really, like. Just because I remember the later seasons more, this season really just reaffirms the characters, I guess, personalities like what. What drives them, I think. And it's really. It was really fun to see how it all starts in this season and how it kind of carries through to the rest of the show. Because again, I didn't really remember, you know, the origin, like, what. What motivated all the characters toward the end, because I didn't Remember a lot of it. So that's been really fun to watch. And I like that. Like, I feel like so far at least, I feel like they've done a really good job of like, establishing the characters and maintaining that throughout the show. Maybe, like, season five is a little different, but yeah, I really like that because I never. I never would have thought of this show to be like that. Consistent maybe, but that my opinion might change also when we, like, keep watching.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I just, I. I mean, we'll talk about this obviously, once we get to the spoiler section of the episode, but I think that this season is so different than a lot of other seasons in the way that it's shot in tone, in the way that they decide to do the story. It's a lot more of a small town feel. The show just kind of gets bigger and bigger as time goes on. I will say season two is similar in a lot of ways. It. But season one has something special and it'll be fun to kind of find something special about each season as we go on. But I believe, and I think this will hold through the rest of the series. I believe, but I believe.
I believe that season one, to me, is almost perfect.
And it is, I think, the most consistent and the tightest season that they have. That's not to say that I don't enjoy other seasons and won't enjoy other plot points and stuff, but it's really interesting to go back and see what the Duffers originally wanted the series to be and then kind of how it evolves and changes and.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what's so funny? I feel like back in the day, like in the 90s and early 2000s, usually the first season of a show that didn't was the worst, wasn't really the best. Yeah. Like, you think of Buffy, like, I personally love season one of Buffy, but it, like, technically speaking, it's not the greatest in comparison to the rest of the show. You know, it's. I think I like it more for, like, nostalgia, the nostalgia factor and just like. Because it's so fun.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: But I wouldn't say that that the show, like, really established itself until season two. And then obviously season. I think season two and three are probably like the two best seasons of Buffy. And then it, like, it's. It's still good even when it's bad. But yeah, I find that nowadays shows usually, if they start off really well, they're like, amazing. The first season's amazing, and then it just like nose dies.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: It slowly gets A little bit worse with each season. Yeah. Yeah. Which is always hard when you're, like, recapping something like this where it's, like. I'm not gonna say necessarily, it gets worse. I want to reserve my judgment, but I do think that season one is the tightest and for sure has a. I think. Yeah. Just a tighter storyline.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just interesting because you think that them starting off would be, like, they would take. They would need to take time to find their footing, but it seems like mo. Like, more modern shows just kind of take off running, and then they kind of slow down a little bit. Like, we were just talking about Euphoria because season three is coming out right now, and I. I watched, like, the first two seasons, and I'm watching season three, and, like, I still think that season one of Euphoria was the best season of the show.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: And it's kind of the same idea here, I guess. I mean, I. I haven't made up my mind yet about Stranger Things, but based on what you're saying. Yeah, it's just interesting.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: Well, and I do wonder it. And this goes into, like, something we've talked about, too. It feels like Netflix is not giving shows as much of a chance anymore, and a lot of streaming services, too. Like, the common thing right now is if it doesn't have the numbers that they want after one season, they just cancel it. And shows aren't allowed time to cook. And so I wonder if Stranger Things one, it being a Duffer's brainchild, like, they had thought about it for so long, and it was always supposed to be an anthology. So I think having a full and completed season allowed for the first season to be so strong versus. You can tell, consecutive seasons were okay. Now we have to think up a story that continues the one that we originally had that's maybe not as fleshed out, and so it's not as tight.
And I wonder if, because Netflix started off so strong with shows like Stranger Things and others where they kind of have a high bar now for any series that pops in where it's like, you have to be really, really, really strong in order to.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Or they just make anything.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: There is also that, and I think that's actually very valid. I think they do. I think they do just make anything, which is.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: I mean, it's like. It's like shows like. I mean, there's, like, American Horror Story. I think the first season's the best season. There's, like, the Haunting of Hill House,
[00:10:09] Speaker A: which it's only one season that's an ontology.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: But, yeah, I feel like the first installment was probably, like. It's my favorite.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: You know, but I think back to,
[00:10:22] Speaker A: like, you know, the Office or Parks and Rec, where the first season, everybody's like, yeah, this is a little week. The characters didn't. We didn't know what we wanted to do with them. Like, Michael Scott is a completely different character. Not completely different, but he's very, very rough and unpolished in the first season. And you can tell they were like, okay, we need to smooth him out. We need to add a different layer to him to make him a little more palatable and stuff. But shows aren't really allowed to have a chance to fail.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: And I think audiences are just different. Like, before, I feel like audiences would still kind of show up. Or maybe it's because the networks are the. The companies producing these shows were more willing to give shows, like, more time to breathe. Maybe. I don't know.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: I don't know. But it's interesting to see, like, Stranger Things is at the very beginning of all of that, and they immediately, from the get go, were like, no, we want, like, as many seasons as you'll give us. Yeah. So. Or at least a season two.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I feel like they had something to prove. It's like a show that, if you look at it from the outside, it's not necessarily something that appeals to a mass audience.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Just for, like, the genre and the age group. But I feel like they needed to, like, hit both of those things really well in order to get people to be invested in it. And I think they, like, did a good job.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they succeeded for sure.
All right, so we have a couple of listeners. Well, actually, sorry, we have one listener question. I was, like, looking through my notes. One listener question. That is not spoilers. So we're basically just gonna do that. And then I will ask your. You, like.
Well, I was gonna say your predictions for season two, but you kind of already know what's gonna happen, so maybe we'll just do that for spoilers.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: To be fair, I. I literally know one thing that's gonna happen. Two things that's gonna happen in season
[00:12:07] Speaker A: two give you predictions of things that you definitely know that are not gonna
[00:12:10] Speaker B: happen all over the place. Well, I know what I feel like. I don't really know what's gonna happen is with Joyce. Like, I'm. I don't really remember what Joyce does in season two. I know it has to do with.
It probably has to do with like,
[00:12:25] Speaker A: what the hell is Jonathan?
[00:12:26] Speaker B: It has to do with not Jonathan. Is it Jonathan? What's the other one's name?
[00:12:30] Speaker A: I'm totally joking with the other ones. I'm joking because of course it's not Jonathan. Do we really think there's gonna be a storyline with Joyce and Jonathan?
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Is there, like, what happens with Jonathan and, like, Nancy? Like, I don't. The thing with Stranger Things is that I remember that certain things happen. I just don't know why they happen. And I don't know, like, when. Like, to me, everything happens in season four for some reason.
But I know that that's not true. Definitely not.
I don't know what the hell happens in season three. Like, what?
[00:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you're gonna be really shocked by season three. I think.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: I think I know what. Like, is that the one where.
No, I don't know.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Wait till we get to spoilers here. Hang on.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: Okay, let's do our. Let's do our one listener question for this one, and then we can get to spoilers, because that's the one. That's a. That's the thing everybody really wants us to talk about is spoilers.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: So apologies if there's, like, new listeners who are like, hang on. The bulk of this episode is mostly going to be spoilers, just because that's just where we're at. Yeah, sorry. One episode.
Yeah, sorry.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Grace.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: She's probably gonna listen anyway. She'll be like, whatever.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: Okay. So the one listener question is from Tony. He asked, was there anything you were dreading covering about season.
Are there any themes or topics that you didn't care for?
Leia wasn't dreading anything. She doesn't remember what happened. Yeah.
Leia was dreading not being in the Buffy verse anymore. No, no. There was something I was really dreading about season one. There are things I'm dreading about future seasons, for sure, but not for this one. I pretty much love everything except for the finale.
[00:14:05] Speaker B: You don't like the. Oh, the finale of season?
[00:14:08] Speaker A: No, season one.
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Season one.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the finale. I mean, it's not that I don't love it. It's just I. I think that the decision for Elle, and we talked about this last episode, I just feel like it doesn't make sense for her. I think that thematically I have issues with it and stuff, but, like, you know, and I would say that that's the themes or topics that I didn't necessarily care for was mostly that. That I just. I think that they could have done a Better job with her with that ending.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess if I had to pick one thing, I think I was not dreading, but I was kind of apprehensive about seeing Steve, like, where Steve starts out, because I know he's such a beloved character, and, like, I know how intense people get about characters that they love.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Especially Steven.
Yeah, exactly. And, like, obviously people love him for, like, a lot of great reasons. It's just like, I remember that he starts off. I remember that he starts off kind of a douchebag, but I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it would last longer, but I feel like it, like, he took a turn in season one. I thought it would be, like, after season one, but I was really glad. But, yeah, I think that was probably the one thing where I was like, oh, I don't want to say anything that's gonna, like, make anybody mad, because people are so intense about their love for a character, which is great, but, like, you know, it often sometimes makes
[00:15:32] Speaker A: you a little more cautious. But I think you were very balanced with him because he really was not great for the first half of the season, and we didn't know enough about him to understand his motivations. Now, having a little more context, we can look back and be like, okay, he does care for Nancy, but you don't know that in the beginning. You're like, is he just a sleaze Bell? You know, like, that's all we know.
But okay, well, spoiler time the fastest was, like, 15 minutes for non spoilers, and then we even danced around them. Okay, so, well, I guess it's technically non spoilers, but we can continue with that too. But okay, so your predictions are like, what. What things do you. Are you looking forward to for season two? Or what things are you hoping we. We look at in season two with characters and plots and stuff.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: I'm looking forward to seeing what's going to happen with Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve. Yeah, I think that's going to be interesting.
Obviously, with Will, something weird is going on there. Looking forward to seeing how they're gonna bring 11 back into the fold.
I don't really remember that part. I don't remember how she comes back or how she, like, gets integrated back into the group.
Is this a spoiler section?
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah, this is. So go ahead and you can say what you want.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Does Max come in in season two?
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: I'm very excited for Max. I freaking love Max. I love. I think Karen has a pretty big season in season two as well, right?
[00:17:02] Speaker A: It's season three.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Or is that season Three. Okay. God damn.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: It's kind of at the tail end of season two. They give you a little bit of a taste, but yeah.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Okay, so is season two the one with Max's brother that gets, like, possessed, or is that season three?
[00:17:16] Speaker A: That's season three.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: So then when does Eddie come in?
[00:17:19] Speaker A: Not till season four.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: What the fuck?
So what happens in season two?
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Okay, well, do you. Do you want me to give a. I'll give a brief rundown. I won't spoil all the other. Other stuff because I want you to also discover it. So season two is obviously about Will having issues with the Upside Down. He keeps having events and flashbacks, and there it's a little ambiguous about whether or not he actually is going back to the Upside down or, like, if it's all just in his head, in his mind, and he's still going to the lab getting tests done.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: And then Max and Billy are new kids at town. There's. There's going to be friction between Steven, Billy, because Steve is King Steve, and Billy's coming in. And then there's going to be friction between Dustin and Lucas because they both have a crush on Max.
And then.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Right, okay.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Yes. And then we have Bob, Joyce's boyfriend.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Played by Sean.
Yep, yep, yep, yep. When you said. When you said.
Do you. Do you remember Bob? What happens with Bob?
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Okay, well, when you said. Unfortunately, actually just editing the episode where you said Stranger Things doesn't really have gratuitous deaths, I was like, well, I.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: Is his death gratuitous, though? Like, I'm. I saw him. I'm gonna have to make up my mind when I watch it again.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: I think it is, but we'll just have to see. We'll just have to see.
Yeah. So there's all that. So I. I'm excited to see, like, the beginning of, like, Max and Lucas's dynamic.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: And then we have the beginnings of Dustin and Steve, because Dustin gets. Oh, my God. Little demi dog. The little baby demi dog. Pollywog or whatever.
Yes. And then I'm personally really excited to kind of look at more at Elle's arc for this season and see her gain some autonomy. I think this season we're gonna see her come into her own, and it's all. That's all gonna build up to the finale of season two. So I'm really excited to like, explore that and discuss that and. Yeah.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: That's all in season two. Personally. Personally, I'll just say this now. Season two is my personal Favorite season to go back and watching. I like. I. I maintain season one is the best season, but I. I. From an enjoyment level, season two is my favorite.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: So another question. Do we meet Henry in season two?
[00:19:46] Speaker A: No. Henry. Vecna does not pop up till season four.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: What?
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Yeah, Henry. Henry was not planned at all until they got to the end of season three and. And realized that they were gonna do season four and then season five. The plan was to, at one point, they were gonna be done after season four, and then I think they came up with the idea of Vecna and realized they needed to do two seasons, so.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: But I'll double check that. So.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Season two, like, still, everything that I'm thinking about is in later seasons, so I'm excited to like.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: And I think there's big chunks of season three you don't even remember.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Season three is when that guy gets possessed. Billy gets.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Billy gets possessed. Yes.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: Right. And that's the season where Elle and Max kind of become friends.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: And that's the season where Al goes rollerblading and gets, like, bullied.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: That's season four.
[00:20:46] Speaker B: What the.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: I know.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah. I just have, like, bits of memories and.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Right. You have, like, things that you remember, but you don't remember. Yeah. It's gonna be really fun. I think there's.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Season three is always the one that I. There's a huge tonal shift in season three, and so it's the one that I often forget about. There's, like, certain things. So I think I. Season three. I. I have a feeling that season three, it's not my favorite season of the show. It might be one of my least favorites, but I think it's gonna be really interesting for us to discuss. I think we're actually gonna have the most fun with talking about season three.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Okay. So I think my favorite season is season four.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: I love season four.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: I feel like that's the season that I remember the most. Things, like, that's the season that I've retained the most memories from. I feel like.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: I would say I feel like season four, the same stakes are some of the highest they ever are on the show. And they're just. And the way they do things is just so good.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: I know.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: I'm excited about season four.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Like, okay. Okay.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Other than the. Other than the length of the episodes, which is gonna be a pain in my butt. But good. They're good episodes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I got lots of fun things to look forward to. Season two is just going to be a blast. It's going to be really fun to discuss and love it. And we were talking about too. Our guest lineup is going to be really fun. We're trying to cram everybody in because it's just gonna be really fun.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: But yeah, it's gonna be a guest. Like every episode.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah, like every episode.
It's gonna be so fun.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: But it's crazy because, like there's only nine episodes. So. Yeah, it's not that hard to fill nine episodes with. I can't believe we know nine different people. That's crazy.
[00:22:19] Speaker A: And we didn't even get everybody in. I think there's some people that we weren't able to squeeze in either. So season three, man.
But yeah. Okay, so here we have a couple of listener takes and questions and all that stuff. So Cat is our first one. She says, I'll be interested to see your guys's takes on the quote unquote worst episode. Which that was. It was deemed the lowest rated and worst episode until we got to season five, Season two, episode seven, the Lost Sister. She says, I personally don't think it's a bad episode, but maybe the placing of it is off. I like that we get a look into another child's past and I think it helps strengthen Elle's story. A bit of a Yoda Luke moment because she helps l hone in on her powers and Elle gets to see where her anger could take her if she doesn't learn to chill a bit. But I understand why people take issues with the episode. It takes away from what is going on in Hawkins and the Friends of Cali are a bit one dimensional rejects. They're all like reject stereotypes. The crazy one, the tough one, the quirky one, the paranoid one. And. But that's else. But that's Callie's family that she's built up just like Elle has hers. And I actually really agree with Kat and again I'm going to be interested to like talk about it and discuss. I think people in general struggle whenever we're in the middle of a storyline that we really want to know what's happening. And then we cut to characters we do not know have no emotional connection to whatsoever. I think that is just always really difficult and hard.
And then the placement it literally leaves off in a cliffhanger in one of the most intense episodes of the season.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: That's such a troll move.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: It's really. And it sets up the episode for failure. It truly does. So yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: I mean I feel like modern audiences would have lost their minds with filler episodes back in the 90s, we literally were, like, watching Buffy season two. We watched angel turn bad. And then the next episode, it was like, what was the episode after Innocence? Like some. The one where ostrich bewitched, Bothered and bewildered. Yeah, like, just phases. Phases. Just. Just the silliest. Like, I feel like all of a
[00:24:23] Speaker A: sudden, now we're gonna talk about Oz, and we're like.
And then Angel's, like, randomly there, and, like, he kills this random girl, and he's just twirling flowers, and we're like.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Yeah. We're like, what's going on? It's happening.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: I'm excited to see what I think of it. I remember the episode. I just don't remember it in context of the season because I don't remember the season that well.
So I'm.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Looking forward to seeing how I'll feel about it when we're watching everything.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: All right, so Laura says, not really a question, but observation that people will forgive and root for absolute ticks should they do one thing that is good and be taken in as a hero. I think she meant dicks, not ticks. But I like ticks, so I kept that in there.
Absolute ticks, which I think we were actually talking about on our discord today. I think it was Cookie who mentioned it, how they, like. Like that a lot of people.
Or that the show doesn't really do redemption arcs for really, really, really bad people. And they appreciate that. They, like, kind of hold people accountable. And my response was, I kind of feel like they do try to do a redemption arc with Billy, and I don't know that he's necessarily like. They don't. It doesn't. I don't. And I don't want to say that. That he's irredeemable, but they don't give us.
They try too hard to say, oh, he's the way he is because he has a bad past. And I think at a certain point, that stops working.
And it always and always. I think there's a layer of sexism there, too. I think that we. We are a lot less likely to forgive a girl than we are an attractive boy. And I think if Billy wasn't played by Daikry Montgomery.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Yeah, like.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: Or Dacre. I think it's Dacre. Dacre Montgomery. Then we would probably not forgive him as easily.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Interesting. Again, I'll have to see.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah, you're like, sure, that sounds great. I know. And I'm curious. I'm curious to see, too, because again, I'm going off of just my casual Observations and stuff. But that'll be something really interesting to talk about. Like, do we see redemptive qualities in Billy? Is he three dimensional enough to be able to like, actually go, yeah, he. He could have gotten better.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: From what I remember, his redeeming qualities have a lot to do with Max.
Right. Like, it's like, in relation to Max, I guess.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: No. Okay, well, like, not from my. Not from my opinions, but like, yeah, maybe. Maybe we'll. Maybe we'll see that. So that'll be something to like, kind of. That will be something I will want to address and talk about. Because this show has a lot of male characters that they try to give some sort of redemption arc on all various levels in scales. And so maybe comparing that to someone who's maybe like Kali, who other people maybe are less likely to.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Right, right. She got a lot of in season five, I remember.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: So interesting.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: And then I believe their name is Maja. Apologies if I'm mispronouncing your name, but they say. Hey, Sarah and Leia. I hope you guys are having a nice week. I've been listening to your Stranger Things podcast for the last few weeks and wanted to share some thoughts how I view the first two seasons compared to the last three. They, except for season four, have more horror elements. The demo is a mysterious creature attracted by blood. The Mind Flayer fits into cosmic horror with its possession of will. In the second season, the Upside down spreads into Hawkins. Because of humans exploring things they shouldn't have, it all feels grounded. The last season, in comparison, feels more like an action movie. The Upside down can easily be stopped from spreading into Hawkins. The demo can easily be shot or kicked. Now the Mind Flayer is barely there. And yes, Vecna is very powerful, but his existence also opens a few potholes.
Like why, if he had the ability to open new gates, he waited for a new one to open in season three. I still love the show, season four being my favorite. But it definitely lost the small town horror vibes the first two seasons had.
So you just saw season five most recently and obviously we just watched season one. How do you feel like those two seasons compare just like on a whole bunch of levels. Like not just. Not necessarily like the acting and the writing, which we can get into, but like mostly like the tone and like the small town vibes that they're talking about.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, season five does not have small town vibes whatsoever. It's like, oh, really? They're literally going to like another dimension that isn't even the Upside down, they're
[00:28:50] Speaker A: quarantined, but somehow it feels bigger than Hawkins ever has.
Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I like the small town vibes, but I feel like the show couldn't have maintained that the entire way through. Like, just the way the story was, I think, developing. Like, especially when they introduced Vecna. Like, I think it was inevitable for season five to be as big as it was.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: It wouldn't have made sense if it remained kind of like the same vibe of season one. I don't know.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
I don't know. What do you think?
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Oh, I have a lot of thoughts about season five.
I have so many thoughts about season five. I'm gonna save most of them for when we get to VRs. I will be here all day and
[00:29:31] Speaker B: we will be like, it will ruin
[00:29:33] Speaker A: seasons two, three and four. So, Amy, you guys can already guess, but okay, let's. Speaking of which, the comparisons between the two seasons l L's ending in season one with the ending of Ellen season five. And obviously we will discuss it when we get to season five as well. But I look at Elle's ending in this season so much more differently than I did when I first watched it. I don't think I ever necessarily had a problem with it. Mostly because I was like, oh, there's gonna be another season, it'll be fine. But now, knowing one that was always the original intent and that they kept that and did it in season five.
Like, I'm curious to know if, like, by the time we get to season five, if we're gonna be like, yes, Elle has retained enough autonomy. This was her choice.
It was. It was a great build up, all that stuff.
Or if we're just gonna be like, no, El deserved that happy ending.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: I think it's so hard because I'm not against, like, characters sacrificing themselves. I think if it's done correctly, then it can be, like, very impactful. And when I first watched season five, I didn't hate the ending. Like, I thought it made sense. I. Because in my head I'm just like, Elle can never have a normal life. Like, this is how it was always going to end for her because of the nature of how she came to be. And, like, I don't know.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: But I think, I think there's a difference between, like, doing a story like that and then having a satisfying story. Like, I think it would have been more satisfying after having gone through, especially after re watching season one and just seeing the horrors that she was put through. Because I think that was kind of far away from my mind, too, because I hadn't seen season one in so long. I just think that it would have.
It would have been good to see a different ending for Elle, But I also have really complicated feelings because I think the way they did it was, like, really, like. Like, I love that it was kind of ambiguous. Like, I love.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: I love.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: I love the logistical, like, we way that they did the final, like, few scenes where, like, the way that it ended, like, I think it was really emotional. I think it was, like, it pulled at your heartstrings. You could, you know, believe that she was still alive. I. I like an ambiguous ending. Like, I like an open ending where you can kind of decide what's gonna happen.
But, yeah, I don't know. It feels wrong a little bit after having watched season one, but I don't know. I wonder if I'll still feel that way when we finish watching the rest of the seasons. But, yeah, I'm. I was. I was sure that I was fine the season five finale before, but now I'm just like. It feels kind of.
I don't know. It feels kind of wrong.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm gonna have the same issues in season five that I will in season one. I think there are some great L moments to come where she's going to discover some things about herself and all that stuff. But I also think that the way that they build it up, especially in season five, it. I'm dissatisfied with how she ends. I especially dissatisfied with how her and Hopper's relationship ends, especially seeing the buildup. I think that's a huge misstep on their part.
I think my biggest thing is I'm. Again, I'm not against necessarily, Elle sacrificing herself. I'm. I'm against.
From what I remember, the way that they framed her as they suddenly tried to make it as L is representing the boy's childhood, and so she has to die in order for them to grow up and move along. And Elle never represented that in this season and then it's subsequent seasons. And what it does is it reduces Elle to a plot device and not her own autonomous character. And I think I'm going to be looking for that in the next couple of seasons because it. To me, I think that the Duffers never really fully knew what to do with Elle. I think they liked the idea of a girl with superpowers, but they weren't quite sure how to write her out in a way where she got her own story that is. Is separate from the boys and. Yeah, it'll be. It'll be interesting to, like, look at that more and discuss it. And I'm going to be watching L a little bit differently this time around, and I'm hoping I can find some redeeming stuff in season five, because I would love Elle to have an empowering ending and all that stuff. But I think it's just if I feel like Elle really is the poster child for the Queer Childs and for everything that the series stands for. And it's weird that she has to die. She's like. And. And then. And she has to die because there is. She has to break the cycle. There's no way she can ever live in this world because she's too different.
Not that I have anything to say about. All right, I'm gonna keep it all for season five, but, you know, like, yeah, so I'd love to be. I'd love to have my mind changed. I truly would.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: I think. You know, I think the problem with season five is that they had a bunch of ideas that they wanted to execute, but the ideas.
It's like an idea that makes sense on paper for the symbolism for the, you know, to say that you did this thing, but once it's actually executed and it's in the greater scheme of the series, like, I just. I remember when I was watching it, it just felt like the characters weren't themselves a lot of the time.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Yes. And a few characters were, and a few characters won't.
Won't work.
Won't. They won't.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: They were and they won't.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: It's almost like they were writing, like, tropes.
[00:35:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:11] Speaker B: Versus writing a story almost. I don't know.
[00:35:15] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think from season three onward, the show starts to write more caricatures. And we've talked about this on our discord. I think they start to write more caricatures of the 80s and of the characters that they were showing us in season one and two. And that's probably my biggest criticism of the series. I also think, just plain and simple, the Duffers got kind of tired of the series. I mean, 10 years is a long time. You're ready to move on to new projects. And I think by season five, it was very much like, let's just finish this, and we're just gonna, you know, try to write an ending that we think is beautiful and wonderful, and it's gonna be a great ending for everybody. But I think they.
They didn't do a great build up, and they sacrificed some stuff Together.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: It's like they were writing the moments, but the moments didn't fit together to make a story.
I will say the one thing that I really liked about. I know we're talking about season five so much, but I think one thing that I really liked about season five that I thought was really well done was the whole Jonathan and Nancy breakup.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: Like, I thought that was a really
[00:36:15] Speaker B: beautiful scene that made so much sense.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Like, overall, looking at it now in
[00:36:20] Speaker B: season one, watching season one, like, that was.
[00:36:23] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Like, their breakup is. You could see it in season one.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: You could see, like, that they would end up where they did from season one, because, you know, we were talking about how, like, they've come together because they're both experiencing this really, like, bizarre and strange thing. Losing people, trauma, all this stuff. But it's like, you can't build a relationship off of those things, and it's not going to last long term unless you're willing to, like, grow together. And I remember throughout the series, they kind of start drifting apart because they. They have different, like, hopes for the future and different values, and they want different things, and they're not really communicating. And I just think that that relationship really played out, like, so realistically. And I really like that because I know, like, people are big into, like, shipping in this fandom, and I know a lot of people were angry that they broke them up and didn't really. I remember seeing online, like, people were saying that was a breakup. Like, they're still together. I'm like, guys. And they're like, that was.
They were breaking up.
People were, like, in denial that these two characters broke up. And I'm like, but it makes sense.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: So I thought that was a really great thing that they did that I saw a lot of in season. Like, I saw the setup for in season one. The base of their breakup is it starts in season one, and they're not even together yet, you know?
[00:37:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: But it makes so much sense. And then obviously, Steve. I think Steve, you just, like, start to like him more and more every single season. I feel like every season, he just
[00:37:53] Speaker A: gets better and better.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: He just gets better and better.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:56] Speaker B: And, like, I just love his friendship with Dustin.
I love how he kind of turns into, like, a single mother to the children.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yep.
[00:38:08] Speaker B: So I'm excited to see that as well.
[00:38:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm excited to talk about Max. Have more girls on the show and.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah. It's gonna be really fun.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: Go to, like, Russia or something.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Okay. Talk about things you're not excited to talk about. I hate the whole Russia storyline. I know that's unpopular. I thought every Russian storyline. I was so bored. I was like, I hate Murray.
Murray. Murray's coming next season. He pops up. I've already watched the next couple of episodes, and I was like, are you flipping kidding me? Murray's here already. I hate Murray.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Sarah, I don't think I've ever heard you swear, by the way.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: Really? Do you.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: Do you not swear generally?
[00:38:48] Speaker A: No.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: What?
I've known you for how long? And I feel like I've never heard you curse.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: You're just now realizing this?
[00:38:57] Speaker B: Sarah, give me one. Just one.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: Every time I do Tavi and Liam make fun of me, they're like. They're like, you're over there. Like,
[00:39:06] Speaker B: can you say another one?
Did I show you the video of my niece?
[00:39:12] Speaker A: Did she say. Did she say her first curse word?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: You know that thing that people were doing on Tick Tock where they would, like, it's like you put your kid in the bathroom, and you. You turn the. Like, a camera on your phone, and you tell them you have a minute to say every bad word that you want to say.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: But booty hole. Stupid.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: She was saying the words. It was like.
[00:39:35] Speaker A: She's, like, really quiet about it. Like, am I gonna get in tr.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: It was so cute.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: That's adorable.
Yeah.
No, well, I. I grew up in a culture and with people that, like, we were not allowed to swear. We were not allowed to say, but we were not allowed to say, like, any of those. So I just grew up just not saying swear words. And now it's like, I don't necessarily have a problem with them. I just used to not saying them. But I also. I'm around my kids all the time.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:03] Speaker A: And so I'm just like, why start now? My thing and my thing with the kids that I've talked about, like.
[00:40:08] Speaker B: Like, we.
[00:40:09] Speaker A: Because I grew up having, like, movies censored with bad words. Like, I. I didn't know what the F word was until I caught the F word. C. I didn't know what was until I was, like, 15 or 16. Like, I didn't know. I'd never. I was homeschooled. Yeah. We all know I was sheltered. I've talked about this. Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Poor Sarah. But anyway, I just, like, I now raise my kids very differently where, like, we watch movies with that, and I have conversations with them, especially because we showed them the first season of Stranger Things, and I wanted to be aware. Like, the kids swear in this series. But I do. I wanted to explain to them that like that's not the norm and the like, I've told them. I was like, once you guys are older, you can absolutely swear if you want to. But I was like, I want to teach you when the appropriate context is and like there's a responsibility because like you can't be in a professional environment and just be swearing and like. And then also if you're around other children, like parents might side eye. You know what I mean? Like just teaching, just like with anything else. Teaching kids appropriate context with these things and having self control and our words are powerful and all in. So anyway, all that to say is I'm not against it. I just got used to not doing it and then now I have kids.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: So I'm gonna make you swear more.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: That's so funny that you have not noticed until now because I guarantee other people have probably noticed.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: I'm just sitting here like, what the.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: That's so funny. I'm like golly Whitakers.
[00:41:37] Speaker B: Jiminy Christmas swear words. You want Sarah to stay up?
[00:41:41] Speaker A: I think I've said most of them in like reading quotes.
Send in your requests every episode. We want Sarah to say one word.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to work it in to the episode.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: Somehow I just, my brain has filled it in like gosh darn.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: And you know, gosh darn. Oh my God.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: What the heck?
[00:42:01] Speaker B: What the heck.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Anyway, I don't even know where we came from.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: What the heck is a good one?
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I do.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: Like it's better than what the hell.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: What the heli from that one. Tick tock. What the helly.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Hell is not even a bad word.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: No, I mean it's considered a pretty soft curse word. Yeah, but I like, I would not have been allowed to say it, man.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: I curse like a sailor in our discord.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: You do? And it's okay.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: We, we all do in there.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: We're all just so angry. It's all good.
It's totally fine.
Hey, like there's studies that say that people who curse have better anger management and stuff because they're, you know, they're letting out more emotion and they're not as repressed. So I think I'm just repressed. That's all.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: Interesting. You're gonna get like really angry one day and you're just gonna be like,
[00:42:47] Speaker A: I'm gonna let it out.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: You're even gonna be saying sentences. You're just gonna be screaming out curse words.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Well, I still even like, I, I was really funny. I was video chatting with or not video chatting. I was voice noting with Tony the other day, and I was talking about a specific person.
And I try really hard not to name call people and stuff, but I was like, I don't. I was like, I don't say this lightly or flippantly, but she's acting like a real bitch. Like, I had to, like, whisper it. Meanwhile, Tony's over there. Like, he's like, yeah, you're. He, like, calls me homophobic bitch or whatever all the time. And I'm just like, oh, yeah.
But I'm over there. I'm like, it's a witch with a B.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: It's a witch with a B. It's a female dog.
[00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
Anyway, I don't even know.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Adorable. Sarah.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm so glad you find it endearing and not just.
[00:43:36] Speaker B: It is weird and odd. No, it's fine. Anyway, first, enough for the both of us. I don't know.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: True. It's okay. You're like, I don't know. Who knows?
[00:43:46] Speaker B: Who knows?
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Okay. We have another. We have another question. Quote, hot steak. Hot take from Vicki Sherwood on Insta. We're not in Buffy anymore. I'm like, hot steak.
[00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:57] Speaker A: Vicki Sherwood on Insta says, with the way this season goes, do you see closure in how the final season ends? I guess we kind of already.
Already answered this. No. No, no, no. Maybe that will change, but as of now, no.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: I think all the characters get closure except for Ellen.
[00:44:15] Speaker A: Mike. I think everyone gets closure except for us.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: I don't think we, as the audience get closure. And I. Yeah, I saw an interview with Maya Hawk where she was talking about. So one of the criticisms that I have for season five is I feel like all the scenes that they kind of do, with the exception of the one with the boys at the very end, but the scenes they have with Joyce and Hopper and then with the teenagers and stuff, I felt like were kind of forced. And I felt like I see the actors mourning their characters and it wasn't the characters themselves. I felt like I saw the actors and I saw Maya Hawk give an interview where she was talking about how she was like, I understand, like, people's criticisms, because a big one was like, some people were like, why was Vicki not there? Why do we never hear about Vicki? Like, that was supposed to be a pivotal relationship. Like, it was a big part of what my. What's Maya's character? Robin. Robin's arc. And my Hawk was like, I see that. I understand that. But Maya was like, for me, I wanted My last day on set because all the characters, last scenes were the actors, last scenes as well, too nice.
And so Maya was like, I wanted my last scenes to be with the people that I had spent the most time with. And that was, like, closure, essentially for her. And I saw a comment that said, that's really great for her and I'm, like, really happy for her. But the end of the day, that's not in service of the characters, that's in service of the actors. And I think we all felt that in some of these scenes. And it pulled me out of the show. And so I left feeling dissatisfied because I didn't feel like I saw the characters.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: I think, again, the thing is, like, even thinking about that scene with the teenagers at the very end, like, I understand the purpose of it. I think a lot of people also were angry at the scene because they were like, well, they're. You know, this just feels so hollow and stuff. I think. I think what they were trying to do was just bring across this feeling of like, we're moving on. Like, everybody is moving on. Everyone's growing up. And like, in reality, like, in reality, the people that you knew in high school, you. More often than not, like, you say you're gonna see each other once a month, but you don't. And you move on with your lives and you live in different cities and you start making new friends and, like, you move apart from these people. So I get the sentiment behind that scene. I really do.
And I think that's the thing with, like I said, Season 5 feels like a bunch of, like, really, like, scenes that make sense in theory for what they're saying. But then once you actually like. Like watch it all together, you're just like, but something's missing. Like, this doesn't totally make sense, but I think they were making it. The last episode was being made to be like, okay, guys, it's. We're moving on. Like, these people are growing up. They're leaving everything that you've known about them behind now, and they're becoming something else now.
[00:47:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: So. And that's why I'm saying I feel like they were writing a trope. Like, they were writing the trope of, like, of growing up. The trope of, like, you know, a coming of age story where the kids move on from childhood and move into adulthood and into a new phase of their lives.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: But, yeah, the show was never.
[00:47:23] Speaker B: Will you get it there?
[00:47:24] Speaker A: That too, though. Like, I'm looking back at season one. It's like, yeah, definitely. Like, there is Themes of growing up in adolescence. But that wasn't really the point of the show. So it felt weird to suddenly pivot in the last season, in the last, last episode or whatever, to that being like the main focus, even though I understand what they were trying to do, like you said.
[00:47:41] Speaker B: But yeah, I think the reason, I think one of, maybe, I don't know if this is true or not, but I think probably one of the reasons for that is because there was such a big hiatus between season four and five and it's like, how do you pick up where they leave off with the actors looking so much older? Like you have to do a time jump. So many things would have changed in that time period. And it's like the next step after five years of being away or however many years passed in the show.
[00:48:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: Would be for these people to like grow up and move on.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: I think that probably played a factor in it too.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Like, on a more positive note, there are still great moments from that season that I'm very excited to talk about. And I'm also excited too, to kind of dissect each scene and episode when we get to that, to kind of say, okay, what do we feel like broke down?
What things do we think they could have done better? What are some things they did that are really good? And yeah. So anyway, all right, so the last thing I have, that's all of the questions and comments and stuff from people.
I looked up synopsis for the books on Hopper, the Hopper prequels, and then also the synopsis for Terry Ives, eleven's mom. So I'm just going to give you a really brief, brief summary of what happens and then like important details that I feel like kind of fit in with things.
So I found this wonderful synopsis on Reddit of all places, by this user duty cycle Music, who basically gave their like book review essentially of the books.
Because I'm, I'm not going to read those books. Sorry guys, I don't have time to sit down and read a full on book. Wow.
[00:49:23] Speaker B: How dare you. You're such a fake podcast host.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: I thought about doing it and then I just like, I cannot tell you how many projects I have going on right now.
[00:49:30] Speaker B: Now.
[00:49:30] Speaker A: So I was like, I have to. Something has. Somebody has to have something out there.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: You're like, oh my God, I'm so bored. I want to get back to podcasting now.
[00:49:37] Speaker A: I have like too much today. Today I literally sat down. I was like, I feel so overwhelmed. I have so many things going on. No, it's my own fault. And they're all good stuff and I just need to set up better boundaries for myself. But anyway, I found some really good stuff. So this one is Stranger Things, Darkness on the Edge of Town, which is the Hopper prequel essentially by Adam Christopher Christopher. It's set in 1977 but also 1984. So there's it's supposed to be Christmas and Elle and Hopper snowed in the cabin. So Elle snoops and finds a box that says New York and then learns about Hopper's time as a New York City detective back in 1977. So six years before season one.
So the duty Cycle music says it details Jim Hopper's time as a homicide detective, specifically covering the events of the New York city blackout of 1977, which was a real event. He's married to Diane, has a six year old daughter named Sarah. Now he's working on a series of homicides, all of which seem to involve cards being left at the scene of the crime. He's also been assigned a new partner from another precinct, one Detective Delgado. The two begin their work on the case and soon end up involved in a plot that involves the whole entire city. It's implied that he has PTSD due to two tours of duty in Vietnam, but that he moves his family to New York City because Hawkins wasn't exciting enough after the action of Vietnam, which is really fun given his coffee and contemplation. He doesn't want anything exciting happening when we first pick up in season one of Can Relate.
Yeah yeah. So a recent string of killings have shaped up to be serial killings. Concern of setting off panic due to a set of other killings by the Son of Sam results in Hop's case getting pulled by his superiors and eventually taken over by outside federal investigators, which we see Hop kind of have a chip on his shoulder this season. With that, he stays on the case in secret with his feisty, strong headed female partner Delgado. He gets in and out of a few pickles, but eventually is recruited by the Feds to go in undercover to infiltrate a street gang they suspect is at the heart of killings. This plunges Hopper deep into street gangs committing crimes, devil worship, strange rituals, and getting closer to the truth. Hop becomes close to the gang leader St John, who is a fellow Vietnam vet, and uncovers that he has been using veteran support groups to recruit for his gang by using some type of mentalist control over them. It is revealed that St. John is subject to Subject 0 of the MK Ultra program and something went very bad with him. So before Henry and vecna. There was St. John. Subject zero.
[00:52:09] Speaker B: What the hell?
[00:52:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So after infiltrating the gang and securing St. John's Trust through shared experiences in Vietnam, Hoppers eventually exposed and becomes a prisoner. St. John is amassing an army of multiple gangs using his mental control, intent on overrunning New York City. An event he calls Day of the Serpent. Serpent. After an escape and subsequent chases in a very warrior style trek through New York City, Hop makes it to the location where St. John plans to amass his gang to launch his attack during a city wide blackout, Delgado is captured, now herself prisoner and subject to a ritual sacrifice. Suffice to say it, after several fights, they finally saved the day, defeating St. John and upending his plans.
[00:52:46] Speaker B: This sounds like a comic.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it does.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: It sounds like a Batman comic or something.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: 70s buddy copy like. Yeah, style stuff. And apparently I don't. I don't know very much about the 1977 blackout, but apparently there actually was one building in the entire city that didn't lose power. And so in the book they co opt and say that's the place where St. John and his people are like that's their base and stuff.
[00:53:09] Speaker B: That would be such a cool show. Like if they adapted that into a show. That would be so fun.
[00:53:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so the author of this post goes on, talks about how St. John is really into interesting. Like the con. The bigger connections of the story is obviously Saint John as it's revealed that he's Subject 0, which is the same program Terry Ives and others were a part of.
Vietnam War veteran who experiences qualifies him for the experiment. And then MK Ultra is suggested to have resulted in his developing extra powers of psychic control.
That's how he's able to gain control of so many gang members. Or it is not suggested or expected that Brenner had anything to do with M and K Ultra at this time period. But the connection thread left here is clear that it's supposed to be the same program, but maybe not necessarily. Dr. Brenner.
[00:53:57] Speaker B: Brenner only likes children.
[00:53:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he does.
Little girls in particular it seems. Well, I guess boys too, because we have one, but yeah.
And then St. John's explanation of his plan, the Day of the Serpent makes mention of being visited by the devil and given instruction to summon the veil of shadow over the earth. Which sounds very similar to the Mind Flayer and what happened with Henry. Yeah. So it's possible St. John maybe could have met the Mind Flayer or some sort of entity like that. Yeah. And then the plot for the story of Terry Ives. Terry was a college student working at a waitress job and needing money. And her roommate did a preliminary test at the psych center at school that was used as a front for Hawkins lab to pre screen for Brenner's program. Terry's roommate was selected to go to the lab, but bails out at the last minute. So Terry, desperate and curious, goes in her place place at the lab. Terry befriends other test subjects. All are given a special government issue blend of LSD and put under hypnosis by Brenner. Terry relives painful trauma of her parents deaths in a car accident. Another subject, Alice, starts having visions of what we quickly realize is the Upside down and the Demogorgon. And those are later revealed to be premonitions of the future. In 1983, Hawkins, which is really interesting. So eventually Terry starts to distress Brenner and then slips away to wander the lab and find finds Kali.
Kali is at the lab. Callie was kidnapped. She lived in England and Brenner kidnapped her and brought her to Hawkins when she was like a couple years old.
So Terry uncovers Project Indigo for children with powers and conspires with her lab mates to try and topple his program. Project Indigo is what we saw Hopper uncovering in the season. So during the course of the story, Brenner realizes that Terry became pregnant by her boyfriend Andrew, who Brenner purposely gets shipped off to the Vietnamese Vietnam. Vietnam War where he supposedly dies in combat. Brenner for a time hides the pregnancy news from Terry. So he finds out that she's pregnant. But Terry doesn't know and decides he will be taking the baby into his program. He injects Terry with a drug that induces labor right before the lab. Friends plan their breakout by faking one of their deaths with Cali's help. So he's manipulating Cali. Terry and Cali had become friends at this point, but of course Cali's very young. She's not aware of all what's going on.
So knowing Terry will go into labor, Brenner rushes to the hospital nearest and somehow takes over delivery and takes baby Jane. At this point, Brenner only wants Jane and doesn't care about the other subjects that escape. Which is kind of a weird plot hole the commentator is talking about. Like as far as we know, all the other test subjects who were exhibiting powers are living their lives off free somewhere. Which feels like a loose thread for Brenner, but I don't know.
The void concept was present in Suspicious Minds. That's the name of the book. While the subjects were on their LSD cocktail, Terry was able to enter into the Void. The Void is the completely black space that Elle enters in when she first finds a demogorgon and stuff. Terry was able to enter the Void when she was on the lsds, and she eventually got as good as L in wandering. In wandering to people and remoting to them inside their minds and stuff.
Of note is that Terry was able to communicate with Kali in the Void. And so whenever the person wrote this, season five hadn't come out yet. So they're like, maybe Kali also possesses this ability, and then she can also communicate with them, which we see with her and Elle, they can communicate like that. So eventually, Terry could enter the Void on her own without drugs, just like Elle could. But then she lost the ability entirely after giving birth to Jane Slash Elle.
The commentator notes that Kali may know about the Demogorgon. She was told about the monster that Alice, one of the other test subjects, was seeing and became very preoccupied with it. Near the end of the story, when Kali was offered to be sprung from the lab, she refused, saying that a new friend was coming foreshadowing 11, and that she wanted to protect her from the monster that was coming in the future. She had that in mind. Then. The only question is, does The CALI of 1985, 1986, remember this? So that might possibly give more context to season five with Cali telling Elle, like, hey, I don't know. I sacrifice, it ends with us. I'm gonna protect you, so let's kill ourselves. I don't know.
[00:58:15] Speaker B: Damn. Very interesting. So are these, like, canon novels? These.
[00:58:20] Speaker A: Yeah, they're considered canon. Yeah.
There's one that's for Max before Max comes to. I was gonna say Sunnydale to Hawkins. There's one about Eddie. There's one about Lucas. There's one about Dustin, and one that just came out about Nancy and Robin. There's one that's just about Robin.
Yeah. And that might be it. There might be more. I don't remember.
[00:58:45] Speaker B: Isn't there a new show that's coming out? Like, aren't they developing a new Stranger Things spin off of some sort?
[00:58:51] Speaker A: It's just a cartoon at this point that I know of.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:58:55] Speaker A: Yeah, interesting. There's rumors and rumblings about maybe something else, but nothing's been confirmed that we know of.
[00:59:02] Speaker B: It would be cool if they adapted one of these novels. Like, they could literally do.
[00:59:06] Speaker A: They totally could.
[00:59:07] Speaker B: Backstory theories.
[00:59:08] Speaker A: Yeah. As long as somebody wanted to Come back and do all that. But the last thing is.
So, again, this Reddit thread was written before season five had come out. Possibly season four. I don't remember. But people were giving theories, and a lot of people were trying to theorize who they think one was. So I think this is obviously before season four. So one person says, I do have a theory about who Brenner's subject number one was.
And can you guess. Can you guess who they think it was, Will?
Ted.
[00:59:39] Speaker B: Ted.
Ted.
[00:59:42] Speaker A: Ted, the dad, Mike's dad.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Oh, who cares?
[00:59:48] Speaker A: They said, I think it was Ted Wheeler. He never developed powers, but was such a good sport that Brenner helped to give him a cushy government job. So Ted was chubby with Brenner at first. Eventually, Ted caught wind of Brenner's experiments on kidnapped children, and then Ted checked, Tried to plot a way to take down Brenner in the lab. Ted.
Ted was there, along with most of the rest of his family at Barb's memorial during the epilogue of season two, when Hawkins Labs was shut down. I was like, guys, Ted.
[01:00:12] Speaker B: Like, literally, Ted.
There's no way.
[01:00:15] Speaker A: Mr. Completely oblivious, unaware of a single thing,
[01:00:18] Speaker B: just happy to be there. Like Ted is. Ted does nothing.
Does Ted ever do anything in the show?
[01:00:24] Speaker A: Do you not remember season five?
[01:00:27] Speaker B: What did he do in season five?
[01:00:28] Speaker A: He brought in his golf club.
He fought the Demogorgon.
[01:00:34] Speaker B: No, he did it.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: Yeah, he did. He fought with his.
His what? His golf club.
[01:00:41] Speaker B: He was out back playing golf.
[01:00:42] Speaker A: He gets taken out pretty fast, but, yeah. Yeah, he does.
[01:00:46] Speaker B: I. All I remember is Karen. The Wheeler family has three bad at four badasses, and none of them are dead.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: None of them are Ted. Everybody got Karen's jeans and zero of Ted's.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: Literally, all her children are badasses, and that's entirely because of Karen.
[01:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah. No. 100.
[01:01:05] Speaker B: I don't know why I have beef with Ted. He just. I don't know why he's either.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: I think. I think it's because we all agree that Karen could do so much better. And Ted has a baddie, and he seems to just not even.
[01:01:15] Speaker B: She's such a baddie.
[01:01:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:01:16] Speaker B: Like, come on, Ted, wake up.
[01:01:20] Speaker A: Sadly, he never will. He never will.
I really. Side note, I really wanted Karen to be divorced from Ted at the end of season five. I am really mad that they didn't do that because I think that would have given her some really great development.
[01:01:33] Speaker B: But, yeah. Yeah. Nuclear family and all that.
Yeah.
[01:01:38] Speaker A: Anyway. All right, well, that's all I got.
[01:01:40] Speaker B: You say as you are in a family that's like, I have a pretty family.
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Nuclear families. Ridiculous.
[01:01:47] Speaker B: Ridiculous.
[01:01:49] Speaker A: All right, well, that's all I have.
She says, we've been recording for over an hour.
Sorry, guys. Not. Not that much. It's just two. Two book reviews and
[01:02:01] Speaker B: talked about a season five a lot.
[01:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we basically talked about the entire show. So that was the end of our Stranger Things recap. Moving on to the next show, it'll
[01:02:08] Speaker B: be interesting to see what our thoughts are going to be when we do our, like, final or like, every time we do a season wrap up. I feel like our. I mean, I know my opinions are probably going to change.
[01:02:21] Speaker A: Mine might change too. I don't know. And that's why I really enjoy doing these spoilers. I had somebody that was like, oh, my gosh. We think. Feel like we already know, like, all your.
All your thoughts by the time you get to the end. I'm like, no, my thoughts change. Like, this is me going from what I remember. And then as I walk through it, maybe, maybe I'll have a different view. And it's always fun to do some comparisons with that. We did that with becoming Buffy and I really enjoyed that.
[01:02:43] Speaker B: So for sure.
[01:02:44] Speaker A: But yeah, guys, that is the end of season one, which feels really weird because it was only eight episodes. But I am so excited for season two, too. We're gonna have so much fun. Leia's gonna have a blast. It's all going to be new for her. And we have a lineup of a bunch of really fun people that are going to be coming on and yeah, I cannot wait.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: Love it.
[01:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thanks, guys so much for listening to our recap of the season and just for all our episodes so far.
And yeah, we're looking forward to season two. We hope you guys enjoyed this and we will talk to you next time.
[01:03:18] Speaker B: Time.
[01:03:19] Speaker A: Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us at Investigating angel podcast gmail.com.
