Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: Foreign.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we're talking about season two, Chapter one, Mad Max, written and directed by the Duffers, and aired along with all the other batch of episodes on October 27, 2017. And we have Prophecy Girls with us. It's Prophecy Girls, plural this time, not just singular. So welcome Steph and Cara.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: We have the whole team here.
[00:01:03] Speaker D: You thought you could get away from me?
[00:01:06] Speaker A: Car found out.
[00:01:08] Speaker C: Look at your joy.
We're just playing a fun round of sisterhood of the traveling podcasts, and Cara missed out last time, but we were like, she should probably be here. So we invited her back.
[00:01:23] Speaker D: What they discovered was that it's just not the same when it's just.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: It's not.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: It's not.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: It's true. It did feel weird. It did feel like I was missing a limb.
[00:01:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: But Cara hasn't seen or hadn't seen any of Stranger Things up until we invited her on for this episode. And she was just telling us that she went and watched all of season one, did her research, and then came on for this one. So please tell us your thoughts on the season, and it's okay. You can be brutally honest.
[00:01:57] Speaker D: Well, I mean, so it's interesting because you would think that this is the kind of thing that would be, like, totally up my alley. Right. I love science fiction and fantasy.
You know, I don't know what it is about Stranger Things. I don't know if it's the fact that it was so hyped when it first came out on Netflix. I think part of it is I really don't get down with 80s nostalgia.
And I don't know, you know, forgive me if this is stuff you've already got into on the pod, but, like, you know, I was born in 1989, so, like, I don't remember the 80s. I am a 90s kid, and I don't know that much about the 80s except through 80s media. Right? Like John Hughes.
So, like, this show, to me, feels like it's such 80s nostalgia bait for, like, Gen X that there's something about that that I find just not quite for me.
I'm not here to knock it for anybody else who's like, I love the show. I love Stranger Things. It's so good. I don't think it's a bad show. It's just.
I went into it and found it to be a little bit overrated for the hype it has received. Right. And I suspect that, you know, in the years to come we may kind of reevaluate it a little bit once that hype has died down. But like I just, I found the first season was fun. I really enjoyed a lot of the characters. You know, I would take a bullet for Nancy.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: She'd probably be shooting the bullet. But you know,
[00:03:35] Speaker D: I enjoyed it.
Music, the sound design, like it's a very well produced show.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:03:42] Speaker D: I found the story of season one a little bit lacking in terms of this overall nebulous threat with this weird government agency that just kind of shows up and then goes away when it needs to go away.
It feels like they didn't necessarily have that whole idea fully baked.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: They didn't.
[00:04:04] Speaker C: That's why there's five seasons.
[00:04:06] Speaker D: The most interesting thing about the show to me 80s nostalgia aside, is the fact that it is a show for adults with kids as main characters.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:19] Speaker D: And I cannot another show like in recent memory that does that. Right. Almost every show with kids as main characters is a kids or YA show.
But this is very much not that. Right. Like you would not want your, you would not want somebody the age of these kids watching this show.
But that's what we have. And I think that is so incredibly fascinating. And the way that they allow these kid characters to be kids is really cool. And I think we can get into that when we discuss this episode.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: I feel like we literally talked about all the. Yeah, that's like all the stuff we talked about. I think like the thing with the 90s, the 80s thing, we like, we talked about this a lot in season one. About how it feels like this show couldn't exist in any other.
It needed to exist in an era where you didn't have cell phones, you didn't have parents breathing down your neck. To have like these kids go off on adventures and like have the freedom to do that. It's like with Buffy. Like imagine if Buffy was made today and there's cell phones and like you could be tracked everywhere you go. And like, you know, everything's on social media.
[00:05:25] Speaker D: All you need. Free range kids.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So I think I like it. That's why I think this show couldn't exist in any other like either the 80s or the 90s. It had to be in that type of era to be able to send these kids off on these like crazy ass adventures.
[00:05:43] Speaker C: So yeah, most of my Thoughts for this episode are around parenting.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: I wonder what's on your mind, Steph. Yeah, I wonder why.
[00:05:53] Speaker D: I have a question. Sarah probably knows the answer to this. Did they know there was going to be a season two while they were finishing season one, or was this like they.
Season one was a one shot and then it was popular enough.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: So yes and no. So when they originally pitched the idea of season one, we'll get into this in my notes. But they. It was all supposed to be an anthology, so season one was supposed to be a one and done thing with. If they were going to continue, season two would have been like 10 years later in the 90s with either aged up cast or you would have had a whole new cast and then they would have gone for each decade afterwards. But in the original pitch, Netflix was like, no, we love this. We think people are going to love the characters. We want this to continue on. So the Duffers were like, all right, we'll think about that. Once we. We get a writer's room, we get into season one. So about halfway through season one is when they started thinking about season two a little bit more. But I'm pretty sure they kept all the elements for season one and just left it a little more open ended at the end. They always knew, even in their original pitch, if, if we do a season two, it would be focused on Will. And so you can see that carrying over in the finale. So I venture to guess they probably didn't change too much. And it was supposed to be a very condensed and I think you can see that when you're watching it.
Yes. 11 was supposed to say dead. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think when you're talking about like the shallowness of the like, like you said, the nebulous other and all that other stuff, I think it's because they knew that they weren't going to dive deep into it.
[00:07:21] Speaker D: It's not Vibes really is what it is.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Yeah, there isn't a whole lot of like, there's lore, but it's not deep. It's kind of shallow.
But I will say with Stranger Things, I have a lovehate relationship with it. I find it very interesting. But I think that the, if you don't vibe with the first season, it's probably not the show for you because I would say that the writing quality goes down a little bit with each season. But also the 80s vibe, it's. It goes from being very 80s to more of a caricature of the 80s once you get into seasons three, four and five. And it starts to become less of a. This is a first time show on Netflix that feels maybe a little bit smaller, even though it's aiming to be more of a cinematic feel to like explosions. And this feels like an action movie kind of thing, like fan service and stuff. And I mean, there's still fun elements and great character development that I'm excited to talk about. But I find that if people don't quite like season one, they don't like the rest of the show.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: But I feel like the show's biggest strength is the characters. Like, I just feel like the characters on the show are so.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: They're very unique.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's the biggest draw for me. At least you want to know what happens to them.
And then everything else is like, yeah,
[00:08:36] Speaker D: I did like how in season one there were very few characters I would characterize as unredeemable characters. Right. Like even somebody like Steve, you know, he's very antagonistic and he's, you know, he's a bit of the Xander, if you will, of the bunch. But he shows you that kernel of like, there is a good person in here who just is very privileged and very bratty and very toxically masculine. And I'm sure that doesn't go away in this season, but it was fascinating to me. I'm glad that they were able to bring that out. So where did you land at the end of season one? If you don't mind me asking on behalf of anybody who just stumbled across your podcast and decided to start with season two, here, what was kind of your overall conclusion having rewatched Season one?
[00:09:29] Speaker B: I remember, like, we just, we actually just recorded our season one wrap up last week. And my biggest takeaway is season one has made me view season five differently.
That was my biggest takeaway from season one. I really enjoyed it. Like, I didn't remember. The thing with me and Stranger Things is that I remember a lot of key things. I just don't remember where they're placed. So, like, a lot of what happened in season one I thought happened later.
So re watching it was really interesting because it has a lot of, like, I just, I remember things, but I just don't know when they happen. So I'm always like, oh my God, this already happened now. Like, I can't believe it.
But yeah, it just, it made me reconsider or view a lot of things that happen later on in a different light.
And I really enjoyed the through line that I start, that I started seeing with the characters from season one going all the way across the show. Like, I. I could already see certain things in season one, and I'm like, oh, they're gonna, like, build on this, and it's gonna be really fun to watch. So for me, it's like the characters and then just the tie in with season five that I really enjoyed.
[00:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, same I've watched. This is actually my fourth or third rewatch of season. Well, season one, so this is, like, my third or fourth time going through it. I did a lot more analysis on kind of the subversion of the 80s culture and how they were taking those tropes, but adding a 2016 lens on top of it, which I found very fascinating. We did a whole discussion on bullying versus mobbing and, like, the history of that, and I thought that was really, really interesting.
But, yeah, same with Leia. I think having seen the entire series, you go back and you look at the beginning a little bit differently, and you also now know the full character arc. So. So you can see the breadcrumbs, and then you have things that you like and you don't like and things that you're going to look forward to and things that you're like, ooh, like, I wish they had maybe carried that a little bit further through and stuff. But, yeah, I'm excited to go through and talk through the whole series because I feel like there's some things that I don't quite know where I land on. And so I think discussing it is going to help me maybe parse out that a little bit more. But. So, anyway, Car, you want to lead us since you're, you know, asking such great questions.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Car's like, no, I'm on vacation.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: What did you think of this episode?
[00:11:44] Speaker C: This episode's finger licking good.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Oh, my God, the knot line is so funny. Oh, my gosh.
So real.
[00:11:52] Speaker C: I don't need. Cause, like, season one ended with a bang, right? And I don't think they needed to start with a bang. I think they needed to set us back up, re. Establish where we are, who these people are, why we care about them, while at the same time starting to introduce a couple new key players and a little bit of a new mystery happening here that's all obviously connected to what happened last season. It's really all I ask for as season opener of this. Of this type of show. Right. Like, I just want to see an expansion of where we left off and revisit to things that we really liked about season one and season one.
Like, as we said, like, why do we watch the show? Why do we like the show. I like the characters, right. I'm attached to most, if not all these characters. And I would have come back, and I did come back every two years when they dropped a new season to see what, what they're up to and to root for them and to. And to, you know, support their change. As Kara mentioned, Steve, Right. Like, he's a good example of how people can change.
And yeah, that's. So this episode was a good launching pad for this season. I thought again, it could be considered a little bit boring. But let's not Forget that in 2018 or whenever this season dropped, they probably dropped the whole season at once.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah, they did. Yeah.
[00:13:12] Speaker C: Right. So it's not like they expected you to watch one and then go to bed. Like, it's like, no, people watch the whole season.
[00:13:18] Speaker D: None of that. Half of the season one month, half of the season, the other month.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
[00:13:22] Speaker C: None of that bullshit. Yeah, no, they used to just do it all at once.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Seriously.
[00:13:27] Speaker D: Seriously, you say it could be considered boring stuff. I think the word I was going to use to describe it is anticlimactic, you know, because.
And just speaking as somebody who's coming from that binge watching position of, you know, I finished season one, episode eight, and then rolled into season two, episode one, not quite immediately after, but like very shortly after.
And you have all of that explosive stuff happening at the end of season one with that tiny little hint of a cliffhanger at the very end. And then you come into season two.
And I agree with a lot of what you're saying in the sense of that I don't think they had to go big in this first episode.
The only thing I would really say I found disappointing is the way that they saved the 11 reveal until the very end of this episode just because it is so obvious, right? Like, did any of us think 11 was actually dead?
[00:14:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:29] Speaker D: Did any of us think that she wasn't coming back even if we missed her name in the credits? Right. Like, so I guess they were just teasing us and being like, you're not gonna get it until the end of the episode. But I'm just like, there's no payoff there for me. But that's kind of my biggest criticism of this episode otherwise.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: Which is funny because when we get to that scene, I'll be saying how I actually really, really love that scene.
[00:14:51] Speaker D: No, it's a great scene. I just.
[00:14:53] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great scene. It really touched my heart.
[00:14:55] Speaker D: Like, haha, she's alive. Surprise.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: The fault isn't in this episode, I think it's in the finale of season one. They could have easily just left that scene. Scene where Hopper goes to the woods and leaves the Eggos out of the episode.
And a first time watcher would probably go into season two thinking, oh, my God, like, what, is 11 really dead? And then they could have even had.
Yeah, like they could have even had that scene at some point in the first episode of season two. And then at the very end, you reveal that, you know, we get that reveal that she's living in that cabin with Hopper. But yeah, I agree. That was the one thing about this episode where I was like, yeah, we knew.
We knew that she was alive.
Yeah, I'm really excited for Max.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Yes. Max is one of my favorite characters as a little redhead girl growing up in California. I, like, I feel very near and dear to her.
[00:15:52] Speaker C: Sarah scene.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah, finally. I just think Sadie Sink is such a good actress and I think she really. And I don't know if this is like me thinking about other stuff that's gonna happen and just her performance, that's okay, this show, but I just think she's one of, like, the stronger actors and I always enjoy her performances and I just think she, like, brings such an.
A different vibe to the show because at this point it's been boys. Like, it's been the three boys. And they're so fun and they're so, like, cute and endearing. And I love that she comes in and like, shakes it up and. Yeah. And I think, like, if we're gonna have 11 here, like, we need another girl and.
Yeah, I'm excited.
[00:16:32] Speaker D: Yeah. That's the other thing about season one is I get what they were doing with it, but, like, the gender dynamics were just so basic, you know, boys, boys, boys.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: And then Nancy.
[00:16:43] Speaker D: Right. And the boys were such stereotypical 80s boys. And I get it. Like, you know, you are limited with how you're depicting the time period and everything, but, like, watching that, especially as like a trans person, it's just like, please complicate this gender. You know, there were trans people, there were queer people, you know, in that era, in that town.
And there was nothing in that season, you know, other than the fact that I think Jonathan is a little bit trans coded. But, like, there's nothing in that season that really like, screamed queerness to me. And that was something that kind of just like itched at me as I was watching all of season one. I don't know if that changes going forward. Don't spoil it. But, like, it was Something where I'm just like, you know, especially considering that time period and how it was rising conservatism, that was something you could have chosen to tackle, and so far you haven't.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: The boys.
I love them.
They're so silly.
[00:17:38] Speaker A: They are so silly. They're so cute. Dustin just kills me. His little list.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: I love the boys.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Dustin is the chief this season. I'm so excited.
Oh, my God.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: He just.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: The party.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: So cute.
[00:17:53] Speaker B: How could she resist?
[00:17:55] Speaker C: I tune in for these characters. That includes the boys. Like, you know what I mean? It includes the dynamic between these four boys and often three boys when Will goes missing from season one. But, like, this is like. And it is like, 80s. It's stand by Me. It's a Stephen King novel with the kids bond and, you know, that whole thing. But seeing the return of them in this episode is amazing.
[00:18:19] Speaker D: But I also, you know, I don't know if you've had any guests on yet who were, like, older in the 80s than any of us possibly were
[00:18:29] Speaker B: actually lived the 80s.
Yeah, we're only friends with young people.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Yeah, only young people.
[00:18:36] Speaker D: I just. I really, really wonder how much of this show is 80s and how much of it is. Like you were saying, Sarah, the 80s filter through a nostalgia lens and especially an 80s media ledge because the 80s was such a dominant force on our culture in America and Canada in the 80s. Like you were saying, Steph, like, Stand By Me. Right, but so, like, how much of the depiction of the 80s in media since something like Stand By Me came out, since, you know, movies like Ferris Bueller came out, are reinterpreting the 80s through the lens of those creations, which I don't think are, you know, an accurate representation of the 80s. And so I think it's just such an interesting intertextuality that's going on here.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I. From what I've, like, the reviews and stuff I've read and the books I've looked at and stuff, it is a mix. Like the set design, for instance, the styling of everything, and the music, obviously, is all very 80s. Extremely. Like people when they look at the show, they're like, wow, this feels. Feels like I'm stepping back into it. However, the way that they're presenting the characters and the choices they make, like we talked about Karen last season, the choices Karen makes are very 2016, 2017. An 80s mom would not be that involved in her child's life and not be that understanding.
[00:19:59] Speaker C: I'm a Karen Truther. I'm a Karen.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: She's a great mom.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: But she's not an 80s mom. She's not an 80s mom in any way, shape or form.
Yeah, because she's hot.
[00:20:09] Speaker D: Nobody was hot in the 80s.
[00:20:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
Somehow she pulled.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: And then there's Ted.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah. But even like, just when we were talking about, like, mobbing versus bullying, we. We did a whole thing on that about how the way we see it today, bullying is something that we've realized is a cultural and societal problem. Bowling for them back then, they called it mopping. They saw it as a parenting problem, meaning you were not. You didn't have a strong father figure or you had an overbearing mother, and therefore you had a weak child who is bullied. Like, the people who are bullied were shamed more than the people that were bullying. And that's a massive difference. And so you see it in the show. They hold the bullies accountable. And that's very not.
It's not very 80s in the way that they depict it. And so obviously we're looking at it through a 2016 lens. So visually I would say it captures that vibe. But there's still little bits that bleed through in the story lines where you're like, okay, like, this is very much a modern day take on the 80s.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: So weak children, weak parents.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not an 80s thing.
[00:21:15] Speaker C: That's an Asian thing.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Is an Asian thing.
Yeah. Can't be a cultural society problem at all because, you know, the nuclear family is the pillar of society, and so you got a strong father.
[00:21:27] Speaker C: I'm not seeing the problem here, but yeah, right.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Anyway, okay, so on August 31, 2016, the second season was announced through a trailer published across social media, listing the initial titles of the nine episodes, the first of which was Mad Max, which is wild because, mind you, Stranger Things came out in June or July of 2016. So the turnaround was very, very fast.
Back when we used to get shows, you know, one year gaps apart. Now it's like three years crazy, 500 years later. Yeah, like literally. So this episode is the only chapter title from the Season 2 announcement teaser that didn't change in the final release. So the Duffers stated that some of the titles would change because there were things they didn't want to put on there because we felt like it would give too much away and because, quote, people are smart on the Internet with fan created videos analyzing the chapter titles.
[00:22:18] Speaker C: Right.
[00:22:18] Speaker D: On a lot like a Taylor Swift album announcement.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Literally. Oh, my God, literally. So in early October 2017, right before this season aired, the Duffer Brothers revealed the final titles for the first six episodes of the season. So just for a fun little experiment, I went to look up what those titles were that they released, because I thought that was interesting. So obviously, Mad Max didn't change. So the.
The title for episode two is Trick or Treat Freak. And then the one that they released was the Boy who Came Back to Life.
And then for episode three, the one that's released is the Pollywog, and they released the Pumpkin Patch. Four is Will the Wise versus the Palace. Five is Dig Dug versus the Storm. Six is the Spy versus the Pollywog. So they swapped those titles. Seven is the Lost Sister, but they called it the Secret Cabin.
Eight, the Mind Flayer versus the Brain, and then nine, the Gate versus The Lost Brother. So you can see hints at what happens in those episodes, but it's very vague.
[00:23:15] Speaker D: Oh, there's nine episodes in this season.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:19] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: A little bonus.
All right, so the episode title obviously is a Reference to the 1979 Fantasy Science Fiction film of the same name, obviously referencing Max.
A teaser for the second season. This is how big Stranger Things was already in season two. A teaser was announced with the release date. It aired during the super bowl, which that's how big Stranger Things already was in season two, which is wild.
[00:23:43] Speaker D: So I just. I. I want to challenge that a little bit. I think that's how big Netflix's marketing for Stranger Things was true.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: But the show itself was pretty. I mean, we talked about it when it came out. Like, it was.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: I was anticipating this.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: It was huge. Like, I. I just. I don't know, like, it. In today's world, I feel like things.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: It was just.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: It was just different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When came out, it felt like it was either big or it wasn't. Today, it's just kind of like you get to it when you get to it. We're so oversaturated, especially with Netflix. But back then, Netflix only had a handful of shows, and everybody watched them. It was like Daredevil and then Orange is the New Black and House of Hearts.
[00:24:24] Speaker C: Yeah, this was like a game changer for Netflix. I remember when we were talking about. When I was on episode four for season one with you guys, we were talking about.
Wait, I'm having a mind blank.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: What were we talking about?
[00:24:40] Speaker C: God, I forget.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Sorry. They're just the people that are dying to the sea so that they could die by.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, we did talk about that.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Pasty white boys.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: No, I can't remember.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Jonathan, the actor for Jonathan. He looks like he lives somewhere damp by the sea.
[00:24:56] Speaker D: He really does. You're right.
[00:24:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Chainsmoker by the sea.
[00:25:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:01] Speaker D: He just looks damp. He does.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: Yeah, he does.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Damp.
[00:25:04] Speaker D: Yeah. He looks like if I need to hydrate my skin, I could just, like, ring him out.
[00:25:08] Speaker C: I think I compared him to an apple that is left in the fridge for too long.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: I think you did.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: And then we were like, our apologies to any British white boys out there.
[00:25:18] Speaker D: But yes, maybe the first ones to say, you're right. Like,
[00:25:26] Speaker A: all right. So going into, obviously, the critical and viewership success, we talked about earlier, obviously about how they initially intended for Stranger Things to either be a standalone miniseries or an anthology series, and then all of that stuff. So obviously, following the release of the first season, they realized the likability of the characters. It was a huge hit.
And they realized that the children were the key to the series success. And they were like, we can't do this without these child actors. So they decided to set the second season in 1984 and focus on the same characters. And by the end of July, they had outlined a plan for such a season if it was greenlit. Netflix's CEO, Reed Hastings, said in early August that the company would be dumb not to renew Stranger Things for a second season season. August 31, 2016, Netflix announced it had renewed Stranger Things for a second season, and the Duffers revealed that the series had been renewed for a second season before the first was even released. So, and. And. And it all ended up working about. Because at that point, it was like the anticipation was up at a fever pitch. And so they literally were able to release it right afterwards.
[00:26:24] Speaker C: I remember my point. We talked about.
We talked about how this show in 2020, in 2016, became such a pop icon, like a pop culture moment, that everybody at Halloween was dressing up either as 11 in that wig with the pink dress, or 11 even as, like, a lot of guys when I was 11, with, like, the, like, the shaved head and the hospital outfit. And then a lot of people went as Joyce holding the Christmas lights and stuff.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah, the Christmas lights were. Yeah, they were selling out.
[00:26:56] Speaker C: The show blew out. It was huge.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: It was huge.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it was very big. Yep.
The season actually received the season 212 nominations at the 70th primetime any Emmy Awards, including outstanding drama series. It won for outstanding sound editing for a comedy or drama series in one hour. And then the success of the first season led the Duffers to let their writers room propose any idea that they could come up with out of desperation for ways to expand the show. They didn't really know what they wanted to do with season two. However, Ross Duffer stated in the WGF Festival 2022 that thanks to the writers proposing more ideas than necessary, they were forced to drop some. And several of these unused ideas were later deferred to the fifth and final season.
Interesting.
They wrote the second season to make the combined first and second season feel like a complete work. And if you guys have seen those of you have seen seasons one and two, I really feel like the. The show could have ended after season two. And I've said this several times, it feels like it's very different. And then you get three, which kind of, in a lot of ways feels like a. A different show or a pivot in a lot of ways. So most of the story for the second season had been decided before the first season aired. The Duffer brothers took in the audience reactions from the first season to adjust some of the details within the second season. They knew they would not have the same element of audience surprises when the series aired anew and were aware fans wanted to see certain elements. But Ross said, tell me, guys, if you think this sounds familiar. Ross Duffer says the point is not to give everyone what they think they want, because I don't think they really know what they want.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Shut.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: Who does that sound like?
[00:28:28] Speaker B: I don't know, some guy.
[00:28:30] Speaker A: I was like, man, these showrunners, they're always like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know Mother Knows Best.
I mean, but I just think they
[00:28:38] Speaker B: low key kind of do sometimes.
I don't think the audience really knows what we want.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: We.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: We just have to, like, they just have to give us something.
They have to just give us what we need.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: Sure, sure.
All right, so as far as, like, the big shots and sequences, the Duffers were like, we wanted to shake things up. You want to take the characters that you have, you want to throw some stuff in there that's going to mess with all the dynamics in an interesting way. They wanted to give it a bit more scope.
Season two feels a little bit more colorful, says Tim Eyes, the cinematographer. A little more dynamic and certainly darker.
And then they were still looking at filmmakers like James Cameron and John Carpenter, and they knew it was going to be a pretty dark season for poor little Will, but they wanted a little bit more color. So it's slightly more saturated than season one. And then just in case anyone's wanting to know, the time elapsed between season one and season two is supposed to be 11 months.
So that's how much time has passed.
11. I know all Right. So we are jumping into the show and we start off not in Hawkins, Indiana, but in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. October 28, 1984. Hu huge city. We're like, this isn't Hawkins. We narrow in on a yellow van driven by someone in a mask. Suddenly, alarms start blaring. We see sirens and police cars chasing these four kids or young adults that jump into the car with masks. And then we see, we kind of get their, their faces as they take off the masks in the car. One of the girls sitting in the passenger seat seems to be the leader. She tells the driver to go down an alley. And they seem to have lost the cops. But then they show up again. They end up going down a tunnel. And then we get a slow MO of Cali as we find her name is closing her eyes. And then she says, boom. And the entrance to the tunnel behind the van and in front of the cops seems to collapse, causing the front police car to stop, all the others to crash into it. The other passengers in the car are like, what in the world? Like, why did you stop? And the driver gets out all disoriented and looks, and the tunnel looks completely fine. There's no cave in or anything. And then we go back to the kids in the van. They're cheering. And we get a close up on Cali, who has a very familiar looking drop of blood coming from her nose. And then we see the number eight on her wrist. And we're like, oh, we know who this is for sure.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought this was a great opener. Like, I thought this was a great way to basically signal to us that we're extending beyond Hawkins now. Like, there's people, like there's somebody like Elle somewhere out there and who knows how many there are. And I, I really like that. I, I, I wouldn't have wanted them to just stay in Hawkins because like Kara said, it feels like the whole Hawkins lab idea was kind of half baked in season one. And I like that they're already from season two, like, starting to expand on that lore a little bit. So, and that was a really cool scene. It's like, what are her powers? Like, can she make people see things?
Because that was sick.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: That's what you want in your ex. As the show expands into new seasons, you want to see the world expand and the lore and the characters. And that's something that we all buy into with Buffy, right? With every season, we learned more and more about Sunnydale, more and more about the history of that town and why it is significant and why Buffy is Significant.
Yeah.
[00:31:58] Speaker D: And more.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: Like with every season, five more semi shirts came to be.
But that's the thing. And also, as we can see, this girl very well likely came from the same area, the same lab, let's say that 11 came from. With the number 8 on her, clearly being number 11 means there were at least 10 children before her.
And as we know that where there is one victim. More than one victim, there are more than one stories to be told here. So I think this is a really great promise, should the show deliver on it, that we. We don't just have to follow Eleven's story. There's potentially 10 other stories that we could be following.
[00:32:43] Speaker D: You hear that, Millie? Bobby Brown? You're expendable.
[00:32:47] Speaker C: You're the first, but not the last.
[00:32:49] Speaker D: You don't agree to our contract negotiations, we're writing you out of the show.
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Car and I are always pushing the Watcher Diaries. We want different seasons of Buffy, but not Buffy. We want different slayers.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Right?
[00:33:02] Speaker C: Because there's hundreds of slayers that we could be following around and seeing their stories.
This is the same idea. And that's why it's a great opener. Because you're like, wait a second.
Yeah, where are the other 10?
[00:33:14] Speaker A: I really like, too, that you initially think that her powers are the same as 11's, and then you're like, oh, wait, hang on, this is different. And I like that because it's enough of a similarity for you to key in on that. This is someone that's supposed to be from the same place as 11, but it's different enough that you're like, I want to know more.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: And then it really makes you wonder, like, why.
Why are they doing all this? Like, why do they. Do they need these kids to have these powers?
Like, it's just sketchy.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Well, I mean, as weapons against Russia, but, you know, yeah, obviously to fight
[00:33:48] Speaker C: the Cold War, but yes, exactly.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:50] Speaker A: All right, so we are in the Henderson house. This is the first time we've seen inside of Dustin's house. And he is just freaking out, searching frantically for something, runs into the living room. I love the dynamic with him and his mom. She's just watching the news. They're reporting on the chase that we just saw in Pittsburgh. She's holding her cat, Muse, and is like, dusty, careful, you'll hit Muse. When he searches under the couch cushion and then tosses a coin he finds under there, he begs his mom to get up so he can search her cushion. And she. He's like, please, mom, it's emergency. And she's like. And he's like, look, it's just a very different dynamic than Joyce or Karen.
He finds his quarter, calls Lucas on his walkie, telling him he has four quarters. Lucas is like, take your puny haul and multiply it by five. Dustin's flabbergasted on Lucas's wealth, and Lucas tells him that he just mowed old man Humphrey's lawn. He tells him to call Mike's entrepreneur, Take a shower from doing real work. Like a man.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: Like a man.
[00:34:43] Speaker D: I love Lucas. I think he might be my favorite of the boys. Like, don't get me wrong, I have a soft spot for Dustin because Dustin's adorable, but I feel like Lucas.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Lucas is my favorite, too.
[00:34:54] Speaker D: He has this wonderful, like, cynicism.
Yes.
As much as Dustin is the peacemaker and the one who brings the group together, Lucas is the one who isn't afraid to voice these contrarian ideas.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:11] Speaker D: And I think that's so valuable in a group dynamic, and I'm just. I'm really glad that Lucas is able to pull that off. The actor. I think he does a really good job with that.
[00:35:18] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: He's really pragmatic. He's the one that always thinks of, like, the logical part of it. Mike is very much like the heart. He's the person that's, like, leads with emotions or acts with his emotions, and he'll, like, give the shirt off his back to his friends if he. If they need it. And then, yeah, like, Dustin is, like, the moderator, the peacemaker. And then Lucas is the more logical thinking one.
They're just a perfect little unit.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: The perfect. And that might change. Right. That might change as they age, which will be interesting to watch.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: So now we're at the Wheelers. We, of course, have the Reagan and Bush sign out front because did we think Ted was anything different after last season? We hear Dustin calling Mike. Yeah, literally, we hear Dustin calling Mike.
I like the detail of Dustin's reception not being as clear as it is to Lucas, which is something they established last season. Mike picks up from inside his elfort, which looks like it hasn't been touched at all. Dustin is confused as to why Mike's calling from a different channel. We're all like, oh, I bet he was looking for L. He asks about Mike's hall. Mike's like, shoot, I don't know yet. Tells Dustin to call Will. And then we see Mike going through Nancy's drawers, dumping out coins from her piggy bank. She comes in, is like, what the hell are you doing, Mike's? Like, I'll pay you back. Grabs all her coins and races past her down the stairs and out the door. And Nancy's like, hot on his heels. We race past Ted and Holly and Karen. Ted's like, now running in the house. And Karen's like, now blonde is like, what's going on? Mike grabs his bike, takes off into the night, and Nancy's like, can we talk this scene. Can we talk about her?
[00:36:50] Speaker B: Brunette in the other. Like, later on, she's brunette again.
[00:36:53] Speaker D: I think he's just.
[00:36:55] Speaker C: She.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: She looked blonde in this scene, but she wasn't blonde in the other scene.
[00:37:00] Speaker D: I think it's just because I was
[00:37:01] Speaker B: like, whoa, whoa, Karen, wait. Put the frame on. Karen.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: See, her hair I'm pretty sure was blonde. But I. I think it. I think Cara's right. I think it was a little bit of a different.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: Warmer, darker. Yeah, Yeah. I like her with brunette hair.
[00:37:13] Speaker D: I just love seeing all the different hair in this season. You know, Joyce's hair is longer. Nancy got the haircut. Like, it's just so interesting every time you see a new season of a
[00:37:22] Speaker A: show, the way everyone looks all different, man.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Wait till you watch season five and you see them go from, like, children to, like. I don't know.
[00:37:33] Speaker C: They had funny hair, too.
Steve's hair, always Steve the Hair Harrington, always good hair. Phenomenal.
[00:37:44] Speaker D: You know he's gonna lose it in 10 years.
[00:37:46] Speaker C: That's okay.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Oh, I hope not.
Poor Joe Keery.
Knock on wood.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: I got too much hair. There's no way.
[00:37:54] Speaker D: I'm genuinely shocked by Mike Robbick Dancy that way. Like, it's so brazen of him.
[00:38:01] Speaker C: I love it.
I just like, whenever he screams at his family, it always makes me laugh.
In any season, he's like, I'm coming.
It makes me laugh.
So I think a little brother would do this to his older sister. 100%.
[00:38:18] Speaker D: No, I can believe it.
I'm just like, wow, you are opening this season with a real strong staff.
[00:38:26] Speaker C: Thieves.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: So we're at the arcade. We hear Whip it by Devo. We see Dustin, Lucas and Mike ride up and then wave to Joyce, who's pulling in with Will in their car. We're like, oh, Joyce is not letting my or Will go anywhere. Helicopter mom. She tells Will that she'll pick him up in two hours on the dot and that if anything happens, he can use the phone and to not walk or bike home.
[00:38:46] Speaker C: Like, I know.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:38:47] Speaker C: This is my first thought about parenting or just being a parent in this world.
Joyce dropping him off, not letting him bike anymore ever again. Ever. Like, relatable.
[00:39:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: I'd make the same rule. I won't actually. Like, I'm never even gonna start. My kid's not biking anywhere.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:07] Speaker C: Like, can you imagine? Like, he got snatched up, sent to an underworld came back is not okay. Eleven months later, Hell.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: Hell, yeah.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: She's gonna drop him off. I'm surprised she's letting him go at all. I'm surprised she's letting him out of the house.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: I would wrap him up in those lights and just, like, so I can
[00:39:28] Speaker A: see you all the time.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:30] Speaker C: And I want to wonder, like, after the last 11 months, I mean, how recent has it been that she's allowing him to go hang out with his friends at night out, like, without her supervision? I bet it's a new thing. I bet it started, like, in September. And he was like, mom, please. Like, I'm in grade eight now, or whatever, you know? Like, I feel like I felt this. I was like, yeah, she.
She absolutely would be dropping him off and picking him up.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: If it was Jonathan, though, she wouldn't give a shit.
[00:39:55] Speaker C: Oh, Jonathan. She'd be like, go for herself.
Like, I don't. Yeah, Jonathan who?
[00:40:01] Speaker B: Wait, what do you mean?
[00:40:02] Speaker D: She is the second best Joyce mother on TikTok.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: Agreed.
[00:40:08] Speaker A: Was it we. Was it with you, Steph, where we found out that Joyce has a sister whose name is Darlene?
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Or.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: And then Joyce Summers has a sister named Arlene. Like, their sisters are very similar.
Like, crazy.
Anyway, all right, so, fun fact about this arcade. So production designer Chris Trujillo and his team found a derelict laundromat in Douglasville, Georgia, that they gutted and transformed into the Palace Arcade, the name being inspired by War Games. Apparently, the owner was using it to store junk, and they said it looked like an episode of Hoarders with the roof caving in and everything. They had to clear it out and make it structurally sound. But they chose the building because of the awning on the outside, which was original to the building, and the fact that it was metal, so it looked very 80s. They ended up doing all the construction in a matter of weeks. And then they stocked the arcade with real games. So 14 games, including PAC Man, Missile Command, Pole Position, Dragon's Lair, and Dig Dug.
And it's very interesting that season one started off with the boys playing a board game, and now we're introduced, reintroduced to the characters, and they're playing video games now. And we have the hints at a new player with Mad Max in it. The Book Stranger Things in the Ladies says inside the palace, every cabinet tells a story about what it meant to be young in Reagan era America. Dig Dug foreshadows the literal digging that dominates season two. Dragon's Lair anticipates the show's blending of fantasy and danger. And the high score named Mad Max becomes the first signal of a new player entering Hawkins and the party itself. The Duffers choice of game was deliberate and they even said we were hoping to do the arcade with like what we did in season one with D and D to foreshadow the whole season. So there's a lot of little Easter eggs in the games that they're playing right now with future plot points in this and the book also talks a lot about. I'm sure Cara will have some things to say about it. How there was a lot of stigma and fear surrounding DND that translated over to video games and arcades in the 80s. Calling the video the kids video game addicts, warning that it would rot children's brains. I'm like, oh, nothing's new really is it?
One New York Timer reader complained the games were cultivating a generation of mindless, ill tempered adolescents like DND. The Panic said more about adult anxiety than about the games themselves. Arcades were one of the few unsupervised spaces left for teens. Egalitarian, noisy and democratic. You could be a nerd, a jock, a skater, a loner. All that mattered was was whether you could beat the boss level. With the arcade, the show recreates not only the nostalgia but the subtext, the idea that games were both a refuge and a rehearsal. In Hawkins, playing together teaches the kids how to think together, to strategize, to fail and retry. For all the moral panic, gaming in Stranger Things becomes a metaphor for survival. So where the adults in the 80s fear that the games would isolate a generation, Stranger Things kind of twists that and shows the opposite and shows that games are what binds the party together and gives them a language, a common language that they can understand that the adults and the other people can't understand either. So I thought that was a great way to start the episode and the season too.
[00:43:08] Speaker D: But I mean I just, I think it. You cannot overstate the way that the arcade symbolizes how much our society has changed between now and then.
[00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that is true. Third space.
[00:43:24] Speaker D: Yeah, for anybody who's younger than us, because those of us who grew up in the 90s and early 2000s still had a little bit of this. But for anybody who's younger than us, Like, I don't think you can conceive of what this was like except through media like this.
You know, the third space for everybody, but especially for children, has largely disappeared. Part of that is the shift away from so called free range parenting in the late 90s, early 2000s. I think our generation was kind of that last generation to experience that.
And I know Steph and I have talked about this extensively on Prophecy Girls, because it's still a big thing in the Buffyverse at the time that Buffy's happening, even though those kids are a little bit older.
But nowadays, and maybe Steph and Sarah, you can speak a little bit more to this as parents.
Even if you agree with some of the tenets of that free range philosophy of wanting to have that kid who has more independence and stuff, you literally cannot raise your child that way these days because people will call the cops on you, people will call child services on you.
The culture has shifted so much.
And I feel, you know, I feel for you parents these days because there's a pressure on parents nowadays to constantly be with your child, supervise your child, or put them into supervised activities, right?
And it is like the idea that you're just gonna let your child run around free throughout this entire town is ludicrous these days.
And the arcade in particular is such a special place in that sense because this was before devices, this was before personal computers, right?
Like this presages the web.
There was something very special about the arcade.
And I'm speaking as somebody who never really directly experienced that because I'm a little bit too young for the arcade vibes. But the thing that made the arcade really, really special for kids of this era and influenced them to grow into the adults of the 90s and 2000s who then influenced the start of the web and everything is the arcade space was theirs as much as it was about taking their quarters from them.
Like, the closest you have to an arcade these days would be something like Chuck E. Cheese or Dave and Buster's.
But those are extremely curated spaces.
And their job is to deliver a very sanitized experience of the arcade. The arcade of the 80s was just pure unmitigated chaos, right? It was vomit, it was sticky, spilled juice everywhere.
And it created this sense of independent behavior while also playing these video games. That the creativity that went into some of these arcade video games is just incredibly stunning because the video games were designed to eat up your quarters.
That's what they did. But they did that with such limited digital technology back then.
It's so incredibly impressive and so, like, my whole thing of this part of the episode was I'm just watching this. I'm just like, you know, this really encapsulates something that has completely evaporated from our society. You cannot have this anymore.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: It was such a communal activity, too. Like, now little kids, they all have their own iPads, and it's not something that you really do. Yeah.
And it's nice now we're starting to get back to that a little bit with. I will say with bringing up Minecraft, you can do closed servers. And so when I meet new families and other kids who love Minecraft, we'll exchange our users so the kids can play together in a closed world, not with strangers. So we're getting a little bit of that space back, but they're still separate there. They could be, like, states away. They could be, you know, they're not in the same area. And I think we've lost that.
And it's something that I hope, like, we are able to cultivate for our children when they're teens and stuff. Is that third space? Because I'm already thinking about when my kids are older. I'm like, there's, like, not really malls to go hang out in anymore either,
[00:47:49] Speaker D: you know, or they get kicked out, Right?
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Or they get kicked out.
Yes, exactly.
[00:47:54] Speaker D: I just. And, you know, I don't want to be too nostalgic about this. Like, obviously there were a lot of problems with arcades. Bullying, obviously is a huge thing.
Like, they weren't always super safe places. You know, I'm not here to be like, oh, everything was better in the 80s. Because it really wasn't.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: It's a casino for kids.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it really is.
[00:48:14] Speaker D: For sure.
[00:48:14] Speaker A: It really is.
[00:48:16] Speaker D: But I.
[00:48:17] Speaker B: That's why I always wanted to go there. I was like, my grandma's going to the casino. I want to go to the arcade.
[00:48:22] Speaker A: I want to go gamble my quarters away.
[00:48:25] Speaker D: I think it's fascinating because I think that there's so many aspects of the 80s that are relatable to us in the sense that. Because a lot of our current society comes from the 80s. Right. The whole nuclear family, the whole, like, all of that really, really, really, like, emerged from this crucible of the 80s.
But there are things that were present in the 80s that have diminished, and sometimes it's hard for us to hold on to what that was like.
[00:48:55] Speaker A: All right, so we next see the boys playing Dragon's Lair. Dustin's in charge of the stick. Everyone's yelling at him. He loses. He's like, I hate this Overpriced piece of shit. Lucas is like, you're just not nimble enough. You'll get there one day. But until then, Princess Daphne is still mine. Dustin's like, whatever. I'm still tip tops and Centipede and Dig Dug. And then we hear, you sure about that? And we're introduced to Keith. And he's this dorky looking teenager eating what looks to be Cheetos, just staring at them. As Dustin freaks out, runs to Dig Doug, and sees that he has been replaced by Mad Max in the first position. Dustin asks Keith who Mad Max is. Keith won't tell him. He's like, better than you. Dustin flips him off as Will asks if it's. If it's Keith who's. Who's beating him. Keith scoffs and is like, you know I despise Dig Dug if you want to know who it is that I need something in return. He eyes Mike meaningfully as he chomps another Cheeto. And Mike's like, no way. You're not getting a date with her. Lucas is like, come on, Mike, just get him the date. Mike's like, I'm not prostituting my sister.
Lucas is like, but it's for a good cause. Keith nods. Dustin says, don't get him the date. He's gonna spread his nasty ass rash to your whole family. Keith's like, acne isn't a ration. It isn't contagious. You prepossess and wastoid. And Dustin's. I was like, oh, I wrote my notes. Dustin's gonna be a menace this season. The boys start to argue with Keith. Will's attention's drawn to the front of the store. And we hear Dustin absolutely ripping Keith to shreds, defending his first love's honor. Nancy saying she wouldn't want to go on a date with you. You make like what, 250 an hour?
Dustin's like, you're not the man for her. Will ends up walking outside thinking that there's a storm coming. But then we find that he's either in the Upside down or he's having a flashback. We're not sure. We just see this giant storm clouds lighting up the sky. He snapped out of it by Mike asking if he's okay. And then they head back inside to go back into the arcade. And then the next day, we see a newspaper talking about pumpkin patches, Halloween celebration. We hear Just Another Day by Oingo Boingo, which has a lot of paranoia, skeptical vibes, which is perfect for Murray, who we just meet. Hopper pulls in is met by Murray, who wants to talk. Jim's like, get away from me.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: Are you happy that Murray's here, Sarah?
[00:51:13] Speaker A: No. I hate Murray so much. I hate Murray.
[00:51:16] Speaker D: Was he in season one?
[00:51:18] Speaker B: No.
New character hate new. New guy.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: I don't like him. He's weird. Anyway, he's in. Jim's like, get away from me. And I'm like, amen. I like how we have a little call back to when Jim came into the station in the first episode of season one as well. Murray's like, please, I only need five minutes. Jim's like, well, I want a date with Bo Derek. We all want things. Things. He stops so Flo can take his cigarette out, which is now like a ritual. Murray's like, I really got something for you, Jim. It really is serious. And Hopper's like, ah. The deputies are like, oh, hey, Murray, got any proof on your butt probing aliens yet? And they start mocking him. Flo's chasing Hopper around, taking his donuts out, putting an apple in his mouth.
[00:51:57] Speaker D: Have you noted that the police in Hawkins are deeply stupid?
[00:52:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Yes. I'm noticing a common theme.
[00:52:05] Speaker B: They're giving the Sunnydale police a run for their money.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: Yeah, except for Hopper, who's hot for anyone still in the 80s. The police don't get any smarter in
[00:52:14] Speaker B: the 90s or the 2000s or the 2000s.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: What are we saying here?
So then Murray's like, hey, I'm talking multiple reports of a Russian child in Hawkins. This gets Hopper's attention. And then finally, you could tell that Murray gets a little too close to the truth. And Hopper's like, okay, fine, I'll talk to you in my office. Office. He's just dismissive this entire time while Murray's like, going through all the events that happened with 11 in the first season. Being like, someone says that there was a girl who shattered a glass door with her mind. And co worker of Ted Wheeler says that he was hiding a girl in his basement. And I was like, ted, you and your fat mouth. Ted now denies this. Hops. Who, like, has gotten rid of the apple at this point is like, okay, sure, sure, sure. And then the phone rings, and it's Meryl talking about his contaminated pumpkins. And Hopper's like, so sorry. I really hate to leave you. But as he leaves, he tells Murray that he needs to go home and then he needs to stop ripping people off, which is important because of what we find out later with Barb's family. So we're like.
[00:53:18] Speaker B: I was gonna say, like, who the Hell is Murray even. Like, where did. He's an ex journalist for a living.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: He's an ex journalist for like.
[00:53:25] Speaker D: I was not paying close enough attention.
[00:53:28] Speaker A: Yeah, so we find that out because in the scene with Barb's parents, they give the card to Nancy and they explain who Murray was.
[00:53:35] Speaker D: I missed.
I missed the name in that. I didn't make that.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: He's not. He's not super important. He is in terms of.
[00:53:43] Speaker B: Don't worry about Murray.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: Nobody care about Murray.
[00:53:47] Speaker B: He's not there.
[00:53:48] Speaker A: Takes way too much screen time. My gosh.
[00:53:51] Speaker D: You just.
[00:53:52] Speaker B: You wait.
[00:53:53] Speaker D: What I love, other than Sarah's completely over the top irrational hatred of his character. Character.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: Okay. It's rational. Just wait. Just wait.
[00:54:00] Speaker C: Also.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, I will.
[00:54:02] Speaker C: I will temper my hatred.
[00:54:04] Speaker B: We will.
[00:54:04] Speaker D: We will get there.
What I love about this is Murray is right, you know, And I. I always love a good who stumbles on the. To the truth. Right. But nobody's gonna believe him. Like.
[00:54:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:54:18] Speaker D: Because it's not paranoia if they are actually out to get you. Right. It's not a conspiracy theory.
[00:54:24] Speaker A: Is actually, but. Buzzing, vibrating. And the best part is Hopper is completely gaslighting him right now.
[00:54:29] Speaker D: The entire.
[00:54:29] Speaker B: We know is so good at gaslighting. I've never seen a character that is that good.
[00:54:35] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe like, king of it.
[00:54:36] Speaker B: His acting skills are like. Maybe he's better than Angel 100.
[00:54:42] Speaker C: No.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: Season 1 Undercover Angel.
[00:54:45] Speaker C: Come on.
[00:54:46] Speaker B: Okay, okay, I take that back.
[00:54:48] Speaker D: I mean, did you not see angel commit one in that bar?
[00:54:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, he really commits, and
[00:54:54] Speaker C: he's been doing it for longer. I want to give a shout out, though, to the actor who plays him. His name is Brett Gelman, and he is a trash person.
[00:55:05] Speaker A: He's not a good person on or off screen.
[00:55:07] Speaker C: Like, he's not a good person. I don't know anything about that.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: I just know, like, a Zionist. A huge Zionist.
[00:55:12] Speaker C: Okay, okay, okay. Well, I'm not fine as what I see of him in On Screen.
And he plays an equally detestable character on Fleabag, which is my favorite show.
[00:55:23] Speaker A: I think that's just detestable.
[00:55:24] Speaker B: I love that word.
[00:55:26] Speaker C: Yeah. And he does it so well. So clearly, if that's who he is in real life, that makes sense. But yeah, I will say, like, I enjoy him when he plays these characters.
[00:55:36] Speaker A: That's good. You're allowed to enjoy him, I guess, if you have to.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: I don't think I've ever seen you like him.
[00:55:42] Speaker A: He takes too much screen time.
[00:55:44] Speaker B: Time.
[00:55:44] Speaker A: Like, oh, get him off my screen.
[00:55:46] Speaker B: This is worse than season five when Nina came to angel
[00:55:52] Speaker A: for two episodes. Murray is in for too long. Like, I will have words.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: To be quite honest, I don't remember him, like, in the show in general.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: Well, we'll talk about it. Don't worry. We'll get there for sure. Unfortunately. Okay, now we're in Steve's car. I thought this scene was really interesting. So we have the music talking in your sleep by the new romantics, which is playing right now, which I thought is interesting because that hints at hidden or unspoken emotions in a relationship and maybe some instability. So Steve and Nancy are in his car outside the high school. Nancy's looking over Steve's college application essays. Steve's like, they aren't great, are they? She's like, no, they will be, and starts going over them with, like, a red Redding pen. She's like, they're just not very cohesive. In an interview, apparently, Joe Keery said that someone actually wrote Steve Harrington's fake college essays to use while filming the scene in Steve's car. And he and Natalia Dyer couldn't stop cracking up because, in his words, that was horrible. Horrible, horrible.
So Steve's like, hey, should I just start from scratch? And she's like, well, when's the deadline? He's like, tomorrow. And she's like.
And he's like, can you just help me tonight? And he's looking so desperate. She reminds him that they have a dinner that night. He's like, oh. And she's like, well, we canceled last week. He clearly doesn't want to go.
Okay. Yes.
[00:57:08] Speaker C: Okay. It's the 80s. Of course they are.
[00:57:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, okay. Okay. That's what I want to ask you. Okay. What were your vibes from this whole. I thought this was a very interesting and, like, very subtly done scene, and you get a lot from it.
[00:57:21] Speaker B: I feel like Steve and Nancy are still just not. I don't know. It's just not. They're not vibing. Like, I just feel like there's just something that isn't. Like, they don't work together.
[00:57:33] Speaker A: I think they want different things, and
[00:57:34] Speaker B: I think Nancy knows that. And I think Steve is in denial. Like, Steve is, like, so in love with her. But I don't think Nancy feels the same way about Steve. To be completely. I think there's something missing in Steve that she can't put her finger on. But she still likes him, so she's, like, sticking around almost like, I think she does like him. I just think there's something missing in him for her.
[00:57:55] Speaker C: I'M biased because I love Steve so much. But I don't disagree with you. I think that last season was the biggest indicator that Nancy doesn't know. Know exactly who she should be yet.
And her cookie dough.
Yeah, she's cookie dough. So I think she being with Steve is what is expected. Right. Why wouldn't you want to be with the hunkiest guy at school? And he. Steve is teenage club. Yeah. And he's, he's trying to change for her in some ways. Like the fact that he's been trying to get into college, I think is for her benefit and not his.
And as you can see, he's always. He's almost like, why am I even doing this when I could like, just get a really subtle job here and we'll get married and have five kids and that'll be the life that I want.
I don't think that she has really thought it out yet. The fact that that's not for her. She will figure it out. I know. I have all the confidence in her that she'll figure that out. But at the moment, this is such a high school relationship. This is such a thing that one does for their high school dummy boyfriend who doesn't know how to write an essay but wants to rise up because you are encouraging him to do better with his life and get out of a small town and do something of value.
And he's like, okay, but like, can you do the work for me?
[00:59:14] Speaker D: Then if you marry him, you will be his mother.
[00:59:18] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. And that's. But that's. And that was what was expected of her and her level of life. Right. Like her middle class life at the time. Time.
So yeah, the scene was interesting. I agree. I like, I like it because I do think this is like such a high school thing to do.
[00:59:36] Speaker B: It is.
[00:59:36] Speaker C: And I think it just really once again shows that Nancy is better than Steve and she will one day realize that.
[00:59:46] Speaker D: Is there like a team Steve, team Jonathan thing happening?
[00:59:51] Speaker B: Yeah, at this point, you bet there is.
Oh, you betcha.
[00:59:56] Speaker D: Okay. That's what I was wondering because it was like super obvious in season one, right?
[01:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:00:02] Speaker C: I remember being very surprised at the end of season one that Nancy and
[01:00:06] Speaker D: was back with Steve.
[01:00:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Steve were sitting, watching tv. I remember when I first thought I was like, oh, really? Because I thought she'd either be alone or she'd be with Jonathan. But then again, like I said, it makes sense that she would go back to, to Steve because that is the expected path. Well.
[01:00:22] Speaker D: And it symbolizes like Season one. The end of season one was all about the return to normalcy, which is continued into this episode. Right. This whole episode is meant to convince us that everything is okay and everything is back to normal, you know, and that's what Nancy's trying to tell herself. Right. Like, Nancy underwent this incredibly traumatic experience, which Carrot and Ted probably don't know about.
[01:00:45] Speaker C: They think she's up with her boyfriend in that it.
[01:00:49] Speaker D: Like Nancy fired a gun at an otherworldly creature. Right.
[01:00:55] Speaker C: Like she's a badass.
[01:00:57] Speaker D: Yes. And also her best friend has gone missing and nobody seems to care except for Fred's parents.
[01:01:04] Speaker A: And Murray.
[01:01:05] Speaker D: Yes, and Murray, obviously. But we weren't going to bring him up. Sarah.
[01:01:08] Speaker A: We'll throw him that one. It's okay.
[01:01:11] Speaker B: He's trying.
[01:01:12] Speaker A: Sarah.
[01:01:13] Speaker D: Nancy Denomination.
Nancy is LA Buffy. You know, she's just been told she's the Slayer and she doesn't want to be the Slayer because she already knows what that means for her.
And this is Nancy turning away from the call. You know, it's. I think it makes a ton of sense.
I think, you know, what you said Steph and Leia, like, you're so right.
And to me it's like, I like Steve.
I just don't like Steve from Nancy. I don't think she should have taken him back, considering what he did to her and what he did to Jonathan. But also, I'm a little bit slightly more mature than a 17 year old girl, so I get why she's doing what she's doing.
It makes a lot of sense. She's a very well written character in that sense.
[01:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:03] Speaker C: He's got some maturing to do for sure.
Yeah. I think them being together right now makes sense. Even though we as the audience are just like, is this the right thing for now?
I'm not so sure. I don't. I do think there's genuine affection, though. I think there's affection between the two of them.
He's way more in love with her than she is with him. And again, something that she'll probably have to realize on her own.
[01:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:25] Speaker C: But I'm okay with that because I think we're all in love with Nancy.
True.
[01:02:31] Speaker B: I was just gonna say I think it's really interesting because I remember in season one, I. I kept saying, you know, the show is very clearly pushing Jonathan and Nancy together.
Like they're being drawn to each other because they're both looking for people that they love that are missing. And they're like setting set out on this mission to kill the Demogorgon, and they're kind of bonding over that and their grief and all this stuff. And I was just saying that, like, she seems to be getting further and further away from Steve as she's getting closer and closer to, like, the supernatural elements of the show.
And I kept saying, I wonder what's gonna happen when Steve gets pulled into the craziness of the Upside down and all this stuff. Because then we'll really, you know, know, I think how Nancy feels about him. So, you know, now he's actually seen all of it. He's a part of it, and there's still this disconnect. So I think it's like we had this discussion a lot in the beginning about whether Nancy feels like she's like her pursuing Steve and doing that with Steve is something that she wants to do, like, if she's being herself or not. And going back to what Barb said to her. And I think I'm starting to lean more and more into, like. Like you said, she's kind of playing into the. What's expected of her.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: I think Nancy's trying to figure out what she wants. I think she's trying to figure out who she is, what she wants. And right now she's. She's caught between the two guys. And we talked about. About this with Twilight and all this
[01:03:58] Speaker B: stuff, and I still love trailing depiction of that is pushing her toward Jonathan a little bit. Like, there's still this, like, it's almost like a pull toward Jonathan.
[01:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. I think, well, Barb haunts the narrative. And I think there's Barb.
Barb went missing right when Steve and Nancy were having sex.
Yes. Banging. So I think there's a sense too possibly that Nancy just can't get past that guilt. Guilt that she feels every time she's with Steve.
[01:04:26] Speaker D: Question is, are Nancy and Steve still sexually active at this point?
[01:04:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:04:31] Speaker C: Obviously.
[01:04:32] Speaker B: Wouldn't be sexually.
[01:04:34] Speaker A: I'm assuming so. I'm assuming so. But, yeah, I don't know how this works. I don't know how this works. It might be. I mean, but I think the. The kiss, I think, is supposed to imply that there's probably something there, but Steve initiating it and then Steve initiating I love you and stuff too. It's again, very much, I think, what you guys were saying. Steve's in love with her and he's. He's planning a future. He's basically saying, hey, I want to be together after I graduate, we're going to get married, blah, blah, blah, that stuff, which I'll tie into later. I have a whole thing later on. But we hear a car revving. They get out and we see a sweet car coming revving up the parking lot. The electric guitar starts to ramp up and out pops a tight jean mullet haired stud with a red headed girl coming out passenger side with a skateboard. The script says, literally, this is the new and improved Steve Harrington.
[01:05:25] Speaker C: No, it's a different type of. It's a bad boy.
[01:05:28] Speaker B: This is a bad.
[01:05:29] Speaker A: Rock youk Like a Hurricane by Scorpions plays I mean self explanatory, but Stranger things in the 80s remarks that this is the show's first introduction into heavy metal with Billy saying. Released in 1984, the song is pure arena metal swagger, volume in excess. It's also a cultural signal. Billy isn't just from another place, he's from another, another frequency. And he literally disrupts Steve and Nancy's kiss. We see Carol, Tommy's girl, checking him out. This guy is going to clash with our characters. And the music signals that right here. The book talks about how Steve's like. Each of the characters have a playlist. So when you hear music playing around them, it's supposed to kind of give you an idea of who they are, what they like, what role they kind of fill. And Steve's playlist is often swagger and pop polish. Sounds like confidence you can dance to. Billy's blaring metal is armor, a wall of noise that keeps everyone out. Nancy drifts between two the two worlds. She has Durandan and the Psychedelic Furs and the Clash.
And that mirrors her shift from conformity to self definition. So we have Nancy shifting. So I thought that was really interesting. And Billy coming in. It's just very much a look at me, here I am and I'm gonna change. Troublemaker.
[01:06:41] Speaker C: But yeah, call me toxic, but I think Billy's hot.
[01:06:43] Speaker A: Oh, here it is. Here it is.
[01:06:46] Speaker C: Billy's attraction.
[01:06:47] Speaker D: Steph checking out that Rock of Ages.
[01:06:50] Speaker C: I'm one of those girls leaning against the car being like, who is that?
[01:06:54] Speaker A: Okay, I will say, Steph, he is the only person I've seen that looks better with a mullet than without a mullet.
[01:07:00] Speaker B: He's so pretty. Like his face card.
Yeah, is so pretty.
[01:07:05] Speaker A: Dacre Montgomery is hot, but he's also a really good actor. Her really good actor.
[01:07:10] Speaker C: Like I'm not, I'm not a bad boy girl. I've said that before publicly. But I think I can appreciate the, the look of this, of this 80s bad boy.
[01:07:23] Speaker D: But can you change?
[01:07:26] Speaker C: I can change that's what I think I'm attracted to. I'm like, wow. I see him walk out and I'm like, I can change this, man.
Nancy already changed.
[01:07:33] Speaker B: Do you want to?
[01:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Would you be attracted to him if you would change that?
[01:07:38] Speaker B: Him isn't. The whole appeal is that he's like,
[01:07:41] Speaker C: I. I changed him into what Steve is going to be, which is like a family man working in insurance.
[01:07:49] Speaker A: A single mom.
[01:07:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:07:51] Speaker B: Who works two jobs, who loves their kids.
[01:07:54] Speaker C: Just saying. They introduced a hot. A hot person on the show and I had to comment on it. That's why I'm here.
[01:07:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes.
All right. So Will's locker. Will opens his locker and finds that someone has shoved a newspaper clipping of him with the word zombie boy written on it. Mr. Clark's class. Class. We end up getting introduced to Maxine, the new red headed girl. We find out that she goes by Max. And the boys are like, it's Mad Max. Their heads are on a swivels. They watch her take a seat.
[01:08:20] Speaker B: And it's angsty.
[01:08:21] Speaker C: She is.
[01:08:22] Speaker A: She's closed off. Yeah. Just like, oh, relatable.
[01:08:25] Speaker B: So relatable.
I love an angsty character, especially a girl.
[01:08:29] Speaker A: This was me. Yeah, this was me as a kid.
[01:08:31] Speaker B: I'm like, I get it, girl. I get it.
[01:08:34] Speaker A: Especially to be pissed.
[01:08:36] Speaker B: Pissed.
[01:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You got moved from California to Indiana.
[01:08:39] Speaker B: I'd pissed to the Midwest. Is that where Indiana is? Yeah, it is in the U.S. somewhere
[01:08:45] Speaker C: in the U.S. where they're glorious.
[01:08:47] Speaker D: Oh, yeah. You're outnumbered again.
[01:08:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:08:52] Speaker B: Oh, Canada again.
[01:08:55] Speaker A: It's okay. I keep inviting you guys back, so it's not too bad.
[01:08:58] Speaker B: I keep telling you to move here.
I know you're not listening to me.
[01:09:01] Speaker A: I'm not. I'm sorry. Maybe one day. Who knows if it gets bad enough. Because it's not bad enough already.
All right.
[01:09:07] Speaker C: What more has to happen?
[01:09:09] Speaker B: Literally.
[01:09:10] Speaker A: All right, so in Melvald's now, Joyce is working there, sitting at the register, sewing Will's Halloween costume. And then we have Samwise Gamgee coming in. Or as we know him, the guy who directed Cavalry on Angel.
[01:09:23] Speaker C: Was it Calvary was a solace.
[01:09:25] Speaker A: Oh, maybe it was solace. It was one of those.
I didn't double check. So maybe you guys would know. You were there before I was.
[01:09:31] Speaker C: Obviously our podcast is better than yours
[01:09:33] Speaker A: because clearly you guys do your research.
[01:09:38] Speaker C: I think I only remember Solas because I think I just made a lot of Lord of the Rings quote jokes while I covered that episode.
Yeah, Bob, let's talk About Bob.
[01:09:49] Speaker A: Bob the Brain.
So I will talk about it later. But Sean Astin's involvement in this season reflects. Reflects the two other major points in his career. Which career? Which is the Goonies, and then obviously Sam in Lord of the Rings, because we've have lots of references to both of those things in this show already. And they like to pick 80s icons for their roles, which we'll talk about more in a second, because they like to subvert them and they also like to just do fun things with them. So this is Bob, Joyce's new fling, which were made acutely aware of. When they start making out aggressively in the supply closet, I'm like, get it? Joyce. Good.
[01:10:28] Speaker C: Good for Joyce. Good for Bob.
[01:10:29] Speaker A: Good for Joyce.
She tells him that she has to get back to work. He says he can't get enough of her. And she's like. Then he says something about how in high school she didn't know who he was. She tells him to go back to work, selling his electronic, electronic thingamajigs and that she'll see him that night for movie night. He tells her to tell Jonathan not to pick anything scary because he hates scary movies.
[01:10:47] Speaker B: He's gonna let Jonathan pick a movie. Come on, guys. As if life. As if Jonathan has any choices. Yeah, Jonathan's gonna be there.
[01:10:56] Speaker D: You know, I feel bad for all the cougars in this town because the. You know, the awful thing about a small town like Hawkins, or even, you know, a smaller city like Thunder Bay, is like, the dating pool must be so small.
[01:11:11] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
[01:11:11] Speaker D: And especially for, like, Hawkins, it's like you're. You're. There's so few new men moving into the area that, like, you're limited to all these guys you went to high school with, basically.
And the fact that they are still in Hawkins as you are is a signal, Right. That maybe they're not the best choice.
[01:11:30] Speaker B: Hey, Hopper went to New York or somewhere else
[01:11:35] Speaker C: for a little while. When prime rib like Billy moves into town. Sure.
You have to. You have to. You have to change a piece of beefcake over there. Like, that's a rare thing. That's why Steve is a big deal, and he will always be a big deal.
I will just say for now that I love Bob.
I think Bob is a fantastic man. He's a dweeby man. That's what we need.
[01:12:01] Speaker A: Those are the marriage material men.
[01:12:03] Speaker D: Honestly, he's gonna be a wife guy.
[01:12:07] Speaker C: I mean, well, there's a scene with him later where I was like, oh, my God, this man, he's so he knows.
[01:12:14] Speaker D: He knows who he is and what he'. About which.
[01:12:17] Speaker A: And he's confident in it. And there's something sexy to that.
[01:12:20] Speaker D: Well, he's such a contrast with Ted. Right. Where it's like Ted clearly, like Ted feels like Steve, you know, a decade, two into the future, where it's like Ted clearly went on this path. He.
[01:12:36] Speaker A: I'm so glad you said it. I literally have it in my notes later. And I'm like, please don't kill me. But you said it first, so I can point back to that.
[01:12:42] Speaker D: Ted's the.
[01:12:43] Speaker A: I said Ted and Steve. I have a parallel between Ted and Steve.
[01:12:46] Speaker D: Yes. Because that's who Ted is. Right. Is Ted clearly was somebody in the past. In high school, he got onto a trajectory. He got a good enough paying job that, you know, he's supporting Karen and all these other people in this house, including 11.
[01:13:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:05] Speaker D: He didn't even know about even, you know, but like, Ted's flame is gone. You know, Ted. Ted gets up and he goes to work. And Ted's biggest thing that he has to worry about is whether or not he's going to be home in time to watch the big game on TV or whatever. That's Ted's life.
And Bob is so similar to Ted in that sense. But Bob enjoys his life. Bob has that joie de vivre.
He's not any more complex than Ted. Right. He's not thinking big like somebody like Jonathan is. You know, Ted's world is. Sorry, Bob's world is Hawkins. Bob's world is his job. It's his life. It's this life that he's hoping to build with Joyce.
And there's nothing wrong with that, you know, and that's what I love for Bob and for Joyce, by extension, is Bob, as much as, like Will and Jonathan. Make fun of him in a moment, and we as the audience are invited to participate in that.
I don't think. I don't think you can make fun of Bob because Bob is invulnerable to your criticism. Bob loves his life. He loves who he is. And I love characters like that.
[01:14:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
Again, I just. I love Bob.
[01:14:23] Speaker A: Bob. I think there also is something that adds to the contrast with Ted because you have Bob working with technology and this season is kind of all about that. And you have him with the video cameras and stuff. So you get this sense this is a guy that he's a simple man, but he's also not afraid of progress and change, unlike Ted, who has been very much against any sort of Change whatsoever, whether that's in his family or outside in the world.
And I think I like that subtle contrast there.
[01:14:49] Speaker C: So Ted's just catching strays from you guys?
[01:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, Ted is what I want to know.
[01:14:56] Speaker D: Well, that's why she helps him with his essays.
[01:14:58] Speaker C: Long, long ago.
[01:14:59] Speaker A: And Steve.
[01:15:01] Speaker D: And then the switch flipped off and his brain shut down. Ted doesn't know where he is. He doesn't care about his. Like, he. He cares for his in the abstract.
[01:15:10] Speaker A: What I do.
[01:15:11] Speaker D: Ted has no interest in his kids as people. Right.
[01:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:15:14] Speaker D: Whereas Bob isn't even officially, you know, dad yet. And here he is taking an interest in Will and Jonathan in his way, and it's really sweet. And you can tell that, like, if Bob sticks around, he's gonna, like, Will will eventually worship Bob because of that whole technology angle. Right. Bob is gonna get worse. Will, you know, like, hook Will up with a new Atari or whatever. And Will's gonna be like, oh, my God, Bob's the greatest.
[01:15:40] Speaker B: Especially in contrast to Lonnie, too. The deadbeat dad. Lonnie, Absolutely.
[01:15:46] Speaker C: How can you not love Bob when you compare what else Joyce has, you know, invested her time into? You're like, man, Bob's the one.
[01:15:55] Speaker D: I mean, he's such a safe choice for her that it makes so much sense.
[01:15:59] Speaker A: And you know what? She needs safe right now.
[01:16:00] Speaker D: Now.
[01:16:01] Speaker C: Stable. Yeah.
[01:16:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:16:03] Speaker A: All right. So Hopper rolls up on the pumpkin farm. The pumpkins are all rotting. Meryl says that they were prize winners the day before. He thinks that another guy, Eugene, did all this. Hopper, skeptical. He's like, huh? Meryl keeps yapping. Hopper notices something in the cornfield, goes to check it out, but then just gets startled by a crow. Finds nothing. But we do hear an interesting noise that we will hear later on this episode.
Then, at the high school, Tina's handing out flyers for a Halloween bash as Nancy and Jonathan head out from clothes class. Nancy grabs an extra one for Jonathan. Is like, you're coming. He's like, nah, I'm going trick or treating with Will. She's like, nah, you're coming. You might meet someone. Then they head to the locker, continuing to talk. And then Steve, with his stupid sunglasses inside, sneak attacks her. Is like, I missed you. She's like, it's been an hour. And he's like, tell me about it. They start kissing. And then when Nancy goes back to her locker, she sees that Jonathan is already down the hallway. And we're like, swoon.
[01:17:00] Speaker C: Cutest boy in school likes me.
[01:17:03] Speaker A: Both the cutest boys. Well, except For Billy.
[01:17:05] Speaker C: But Jonathan is not the cutest boy in school.
[01:17:07] Speaker B: My guy is Hopper, by the way. My type. Like, my guy is totally Hopper. That's who I would be dating if I lived in hockey.
[01:17:14] Speaker D: Oh, that makes so much sense for you. Leia, I'm so sorry.
[01:17:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it does.
[01:17:20] Speaker D: So on Brand Nancy getting this poster is a big deal, right? Cause in season one, she was not a popular kid. You know, she didn't go to parties. She was a nerd.
And so you need to hand Nancy a poster to be like, hey, Nancy, take one of these posters. I think it really signals the shift that she's experienced in her status in high school.
[01:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
So in the middle school, the boys are stalking Max as she skateboards outside. Mike and Will don't think she's mad. Max. They're like, girls don't play video games. Lucas and Dustin are like, yeah, it's her. The name matches up. Dust is like, plushie skateboard. So she's got to be awesome. They realize that Max has moved inside and turned Justin's high in time to see her throw something in the trash. They all, like, bolt straight for it. We have that amazing shot of Dustin hunting in the trash while the other three try to casually sit there and, like, nod at all the girls passing by. They pull out the paper, and in all caps, it's stop spying on me, creeps. With it underlined. Dustin's like, well, shit.
Then a teacher principal tells Will that his mom is there. We see him walk down the hallway. The instant vibe shift right there to, like, this, like, trepidation. We don't know what's going to happen yet.
Mike observes that Will has been quiet that day, and Lucas says that he's always quiet. Then we see that Joyce and Will are driving. She's telling him that if he feels better or asks him if he feels better, and he's just kind of zoned out. He apologizes, and Joyce is like, hey, we've talked about this. You've got to stop apologizing. There's nothing to be nervous about. Just tell them what you saw the night before and. And that she'll be there the whole time. Then we see them pull up to a parking lot. Hopper's waiting for them. And then we realize that they're at the lab. And at this point, we're like, hang on. Why are they at the lab? What in the world is going on? Was this not the bad place last episode or last this part?
[01:19:06] Speaker B: I forgot this part I didn't remember happening in season two. So this was kind of a shocker to me.
[01:19:12] Speaker A: So inside, Will's getting weighed, has something injected inside him, which I don't quite understand why they wouldn't be drawing blood, but. But, you know, whatever. Then they hook him up to some stuff to measure his brain waves. The doctor who we find out is Dr. Owens, comes in, tries to make small talk with Will, and instantly we are primed to not trust this guy based on everything that happened with Brenner. But this guy seems a lot nicer, and the. The show did that intentionally. So. Dr. Owens is played by Paul Reiser, who's best known for his role in Aliens.
The Duffer Brothers had referred to the character in their pitch to Netflix for the season as Paul Reiser, and specifically alluded to Reiser's character as Carter J. Burke in Aliens, with Ross referencing James Cameron's casting choice for the film, saying that he thought that people would inherently mistrust Riser and it would be kind of a twist because it. He was supposed to be someone that betrayed everybody in Alien, and now in this one, you're kind of waiting for that to happen.
And so it's really interesting. In the book Stranger things in the 80s, they talk about how this contrasts Matthew Modine's Papa in the first season, where Matthew Coding's earlier roles in the 80s, such as vision, Vision Quest and Full Metal Jacket, cast him as an actor associated with more idealistic or introspective roles. And then he comes on to Stranger Things and he becomes this chilling authority figure. And that shows another subversion on the 80s caricature of these idealistic figures. As. As they get older, they basically end up helping the institutions that their characters once questioned. And so now we have Reiser here, and we're like, okay, so where is he gonna fit into that whole thing? Thing.
So Reisser actually got the role because his son was a fan of Stranger Things and told him to go out for it. So he ended up doing it. So thank you to the sons. So we transition later to where Will is waiting outside the office he's drawing while Joyce and Hopper are chatting with Dr. Owens. He tells them that it's probably going to get worse before it gets better, that it's called the Anniversary Effect. They see it with soldiers, that the anniversary of the event floods the brain with traumatic memories. He says, well, we'll have more episodes and maybe some personality changes. Changes getting irritable and lashing out. Says he has PTSD to treat him normally and be patient. Joyce isn't happy with this, and Is like you're telling me he's going to get worse and I'm just supposed to treat it like it's not happening? Dr. Owens is trying to reassure her. Says, I know you went through last year with those people, but they're gone. So if we're gonna get through this, I need you to realize I'm on your side and I need you to trust me. We're like, Brenner also said that.
[01:21:43] Speaker D: So to be fair, she's not handcuffed this time.
[01:21:48] Speaker A: That's true. Woo. Free will.
[01:21:50] Speaker D: Ish.
[01:21:51] Speaker B: Maybe.
Yeah.
[01:21:53] Speaker C: Something I find interesting is that.
So obviously Hawkins has a Sunnydale, like, vibe where everyone is just going to pretend that none of that weird shit last year happened. Like, just the fact that two kids went missing.
A girl and a guy and a boy.
The boy was found dead, but turns out he's not dead. He's back.
There was a massacre at the high school, wasn't there?
[01:22:22] Speaker D: There were like, a lot of people. Yes.
I would hate to be the government employee who had to clean up that high school that night. Right.
[01:22:34] Speaker C: So, like. But no one in Hawkins is demanding answers for what. What is going on around here. What's strange about happening here.
But what I find interesting is that we're getting little hints about. Because Will came back. And Will's special. He has to be treated specially right now because of what he went through.
We have some authority figures looking out for him. The fact that the principal collected him and brought him directly to the car for him to go to his. Then I guess therapist or whatever this doctor is supposed to be. And the fact that Hopper is there to oversee his treatment as well. Yeah, I don't know what you guys made of that, but that's something I noticed. I was like, these authority figures are.
[01:23:15] Speaker A: I wonder if this was part of the deal that Hopper made at the very end of the season when he got into the car. Because the original deal was with Brenner and the others and that he wasn't going to say a word and he was going to get Will. And Brenner was betting on the fact that they were going to die in the Upside down and not find Will. Well, he finds Will, Brenner's dead, now they have to make a new deal. So I bet you there was some sort of thing that, hey, you're going to provide care for Will and make sure he's okay and oversee this.
[01:23:39] Speaker B: This.
[01:23:39] Speaker A: We won't talk about it with anybody. In fact, as Hopper, I'll divert anyone that comes around and gets Them. Gets them their attention away. What's. What he's doing with Murray.
So we're seeing all that, but I think the twist is at the end of the episode, oh, Hopper's actually harboring L. Who the government probably wants. So he's not quite abiding by the thing that my little read to. Yeah, Leia's over here, like, hot, hot, hot.
[01:24:04] Speaker D: I'm. I'm right there with you, Sarah. That's exactly what I thought was going on here.
The Hawkins Lab thing is very much like the Initiative, right? Where it's like they are pulling all the strings. They are in control of this town, whether you realize it or not. We haven't met the mayor of Hawkins yet, but I'm sure they're on the payroll, you know? And in season one, we learn that the Hawkins Lab is a subsidiary of the Department of Energy.
And I'm sure you mentioned this, Sarah, right? But the Department of Energy has nothing to do with energy and everything to do with weapons research, especially back in the 80s atomic energy.
And what has happened is Dr. Brenner died, much like Dr. Walsh died in the Initiative and in Buffy. The reactions of the higher ups were, okay, well, just close down this little branch, cement it, right? But like here in Hawkins, what's happened is that hasn't shut down. They just brought in new management, right? It's, you know, it's, meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
[01:25:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:25:10] Speaker D: And this new boss, whether it's this specific guy or if he reports to somebody, I don't know, we'll find out. But, like, he's gotta clean up Brenner's mess, right? He's probably sitting around going, like, fuck this guy. Like, what was he doing? Right? Like, you know, he's come into this situation to clean up the mess, and part of that is managing the situation.
I don't think anybody else in Hawkins really knows what's going on, right?
[01:25:33] Speaker A: No, I don't think so either. Except Murray.
[01:25:36] Speaker D: Yes.
[01:25:39] Speaker A: Murray has his third eye open. Okay.
[01:25:41] Speaker C: All right.
[01:25:41] Speaker D: They cleaned up the school, right?
It seems like Karen and Ted have no idea what's going on with Nancy, you know, so really the only people who know anything is amazing, Miss is are the kids. Joyce Hopper, Murray.
[01:25:59] Speaker B: Our main cast, Nancy, Jonathan.
[01:26:03] Speaker D: It's very successfully contained.
So it's interesting to me how they've managed to preserve the Hawkins Lab as this anomalous, semi antagonistic setting.
[01:26:18] Speaker A: And we don't quite know what Joyce and Hopper all know. And they're not really asking questions like, do they know if Rift is still open. Also, do they know that Will's being monitored? Because we see the cameras and stuff and a bunch of people watching Will and stuff. So is that part of the deal? Like, there's just a lot that we're not sure about. So we're. We're also echoing Joyce when she's in this next scene, talking about how she's like, how can we trust them after everything? So it's kind of nice to be aligned with the characters because they're asking the same questions we are.
[01:26:47] Speaker B: I think this is also. We were talking about this in the season one finale about Hopper's choice to give away 11 and how you were asking me, like, how I felt about that choice and just the type of character that Hopper is. I think back then I said it didn't bother me because it feels like he has something in his back pocket. He's the type of character that will, like, make a deal with the devil, but then have another deal going on in the background where he's gonna screw over the person that he made a deal with.
[01:27:17] Speaker A: With.
[01:27:18] Speaker D: I didn't believe for a second that he actually legit was giving up 11.
[01:27:22] Speaker B: And I feel like even with the.
With the lab, like, even with him taking Will there, like, he's going there because he's got. It just feels like Hopper has a plan. Like, he's not okay with the fact that this exists in his town. He's just playing it to his advantage right now, it feels like. And he's got something going on where he's like, okay, this. This is like putting my citizens in.
I mean, yeah.
[01:27:47] Speaker A: Him harboring El shows that he doesn't tr. Trust them. He's not gonna give L to them, I think. Yeah.
[01:27:53] Speaker B: Like, it's. I'm excited to see, like, what is gonna happen, because I feel like Hopper has something in his back pocket that he's gonna do, because I don't think he's okay with the lab just existing there and doing whatever the hell they're doing.
[01:28:08] Speaker C: He's got something in his front pocket, too.
[01:28:10] Speaker B: Ooh, my hand.
[01:28:13] Speaker D: My God,
[01:28:21] Speaker A: I love this balance.
Anyway.
[01:28:23] Speaker C: All right.
[01:28:25] Speaker A: We just. Our listeners are constant whiplash back between. Like, gotta just analyze this. And then my hand. All right.
[01:28:35] Speaker B: Steph hasn't said boner this episode.
[01:28:37] Speaker A: Oh, she's hinted at it. She's getting closer each time.
[01:28:40] Speaker C: Closer and closer, waiting for the right moment.
[01:28:41] Speaker A: She is.
[01:28:42] Speaker C: Yes. Yes.
[01:28:43] Speaker A: I'm excited. So Hopper tells Joyce that Will's going to be okay and then tells her to Call him. If anything changes, call him first. And then as he leaves, we see the. Owens is watching. He like kind of waves, friendly like. And Hopper just kind of. Nah. And then, and then we get to see from Owens's point of view. And this is like, everyone's like, okay, let's see the seedy underbelly. And then Owens goes down that familiar elevator, down that hallway. But it's not all spory, like, like as it was in the earlier or like last season. And we see that they have another suited man going inside. And the, the tone is very different. It's very jovial, light hearted. And then we see that they're using flamethrowers to flame the particles around the rift. And the rift itself seems to be smaller, so they're trying to contain it and everything. We're like, all right, so the rift is still open. What does that mean?
[01:29:34] Speaker C: The membrane that you called it last time, the hymen.
[01:29:36] Speaker A: What did you call it? The hymen with the IUD that gets dragged out of it and everything.
So then in the middle school, Lucas and Dustin are staking out the arcade with binoculars, keeping a lookout for Max. So I guess we're not in the middle school, we're at the arcades. Dustin realizes that it's late. Lucas tells him to go home. Dustin's like, nice try. You just want me out of here so you can make your move. Lucas is like, oh yeah, because you're such a threat. And Dustin's like, that's right. She will not be able to resist these pearls. And then he goes.
And Lucas is just. Is like, never do that again. Ever.
Billy pulls up super fast with his music blaring and loud. Max gets out. They're arguing at each other. Lucas with the binoculars is like, like narrating and pointing out. And Dustin's like, I can see that. I don't even know why you need those. God, you're so stupid.
[01:30:23] Speaker D: Full on Buffy in the Mik episode, with her little voice she goes, yes, the.
[01:30:30] Speaker A: Not the completely conspicuous. Was it like a cheat at girl outfit?
[01:30:34] Speaker C: So funny.
[01:30:34] Speaker B: Funny.
[01:30:36] Speaker A: Billy takes off. Max yells at him, flips him off and then races inside. And then we see from Max's POV as she's plays one of the arcade games, which I love this moment of insight into Max. You could see that the arcade games are her escape from what is probably not a super great situation. Lucas and Dustin watch from afar with admiration. And we're like, oh, they're in love. And they confirmed that she's mad. Max and then at the Wheelers, it's dinner time. And of course Nancy's out having dinner with Steve. Karen tells a very quiet Mike that she wants him to pick out his toys for the yard sale to dinner. She wants two boxes worth. This is literally every day with my children.
[01:31:10] Speaker C: They're like, two boxes?
[01:31:12] Speaker A: Yes, please get rid of your crap. Oh my gosh. And then Ted's like jumping in. They're hung stuff plastic Michael. And Mike's like, you already took away my Atari. And Karen's like, you know, you shouldn't have stolen from Nancy. Mike's like, I didn't steal. I borrowed Queen. Karen's like, oh, and you didn't curse out Mr. Kowalski last week either, right? Or plagiarize that essay. Or graffiti the bathroom stirring stall. Mike rolls his eyes and is like, everyone graffitis the plastic bathroom stall. And then Ted, you know, just always nailing the heart of every issue here is like, so if your friends jump off a cliff, you're gonna jump too. And I'm like, well, he already did, Ted. So yeah, he's going to you.
And I, I. Here's the thing I really like again.
Karen is. She is parenting the way she's supposed to and she's parenting to the best of her abilities. But I think there's also a really interesting nod here year to what Dr. Owens was telling Joyce about treating them normally and how Mike probably has his own version of PTSD here after seeing all the amount of death that happened in the school and then l and everything.
And I. Okay, so this is where I have my comparisons with Steve again. Don't hate me, everyone. I love Steve. I think he's showing a lot more promise than Ted. But the way that Ted uses these sports illustrations that don't quite makes sense here.
And Steve is not quite invested in the things that Nancy is like with going to visit Barb's family and her house for dinner. Steve gave two different examples in his essay. One was his granddad's war story and he linked it into something that he knows, which is playing basketball. And Nancy's like, I don't see how they're connected. Steve's like, well, we both won. It's very similar to what Ted is doing here and trying to relate to his son, but he can only do it through his own perspective. And, and it's this very self centered and small and closed mindedness of being unable to see the par. Like of. Of equating your life a sports game with war.
And one has lifelong repercussions And I. Again, I think Steve is growing, but I think he's coming from a place of privilege. And I think there's still a semblance of obliviousness that is carrying over from the previous seasons.
And I think Kara's right. I think that Ted is. Is essentially what Steve could and is on the path to become in like, 20 or so years.
And we see that with Ted equating Mike's traumatics experience with his own experience here. And I think that the show does a very good job of underlining that, because the very next scene is Steve and Nancy going, in a very domestic sense, to Barb's family's house. And you can tell that Steve isn't quite aware of how much this is affecting Nancy. And he's just doing this for her, but not out of a sense of like, oh, we both feel very strongly
[01:33:55] Speaker C: about this, you know, truly understanding.
[01:33:57] Speaker A: Yep. Totally.
[01:33:58] Speaker C: So empathizing, perhaps. Yeah. But Steve's got time, all right? Steve's young. He's 17. He's got. He's got time to change. I can change him.
[01:34:07] Speaker A: Yes, you probably could, because I think Nancy could change him too. I just think Nancy doesn't want to, as she should.
[01:34:12] Speaker C: Nancy is slowly changing him. Him.
Not that she's trying to, but she just. Just from being her awesome self.
[01:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Good influence and all that. He's not hanging out with Tommy, thank God.
[01:34:23] Speaker C: Well, so this scene with, like, with dinner with Karen, Ted and poor Holly, who's, like, so overlooked. She's there, though. She's there.
[01:34:31] Speaker B: She's the John Olympia family.
[01:34:34] Speaker C: She really, really is.
I.
[01:34:38] Speaker B: That.
[01:34:38] Speaker C: My, My. My note for that was just like, what are we feeling about the parenting situation here? Because I, like, at first, I was like, I like that they're having a united front. The only thing Ted needs to do, apparently in the. As a dad in the 80s, is back up his wife. Right. Like, that's all we ask. And he's doing it right where he's like. He's putting out these metaphors that don't really apply. The bare minimum he's doing, and that's all.
[01:35:03] Speaker A: But you can see Mike just tuning him out and listening to Karen.
[01:35:06] Speaker C: Mike's face.
[01:35:08] Speaker A: Why are you speaking to me?
[01:35:12] Speaker C: But for Karen, I was, as you said, Sarah, like, you go through this with your kids. I was relating to Karen so hard. And like, I get it. Like, Mike is a nostalgic kind of boy. He doesn't want to let go of his toys.
[01:35:25] Speaker B: He's very much.
[01:35:25] Speaker C: Still wants to play with them, probably
[01:35:27] Speaker B: you know what I mean?
[01:35:28] Speaker C: But for her to be like, two boxes. That's it. And then to have all the receipts as to why he has been acting out. And she, I think, put up a really good point, right? She's like, this is not strike one or strike two. And then, of course, Ted is like, it's strike 20.
[01:35:46] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[01:35:47] Speaker C: But I was like, they're right.
[01:35:49] Speaker A: Yeah, they are right.
[01:35:50] Speaker C: These neglectful, dummy parents of the 80s are actually right. And I wanted, as I said, like, oh, everyone's just shooting shots at Ted. But the thing about Ted, for me, is that, like. Like, he was always gonna be this person.
That was his life path. He followed it to a T.
Can I blame him for that? Not really.
[01:36:11] Speaker D: From their perspective, they are successful. They are the American dream.
[01:36:18] Speaker C: They're winning parenthood right now. And I think this scene. And unfortunately, I was like, they are kind of winning parenthood in this scene.
And I also thought that Ted, in comparison to the little bit that we saw of him last season, he is more alert in that he's part of this conversation.
[01:36:36] Speaker A: He's more alert. Wow. The bar is low.
[01:36:40] Speaker C: It's very low. But he's having the convo.
I don't think last season he would have been part of this convo at all.
[01:36:48] Speaker D: What happens to is Karen has titrated his dose of Valium ever since
[01:36:55] Speaker A: she's
[01:36:55] Speaker D: been drugging him his entire relationship.
[01:36:57] Speaker A: You know, I believe it 100%.
[01:37:00] Speaker C: That's why I had to pause slow, too.
[01:37:02] Speaker B: He's just like, that's why.
[01:37:04] Speaker C: Pause here. I had to be like, what do I think about this parenting? Because believe it or not, I'm on Ted and Karen's side.
[01:37:13] Speaker D: Yes.
[01:37:13] Speaker C: And Ted, as. As nonchalant as he is, he is backing up his wife, and he is putting his son supportive.
[01:37:22] Speaker A: He's a team player.
[01:37:24] Speaker C: Yeah. So I was like, all right. Like, yeah. Like, pack up those two boxes now.
[01:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[01:37:31] Speaker B: I just love how, like, this is with Karen, too. It's like a continued thread, like, a consistent thread of, like, she knows what's going on in her children's lives.
[01:37:38] Speaker A: Like, yeah.
[01:37:39] Speaker B: She's not just turning a blind eye. She knows that something's going on. She knew that something was going on with Nancy even when Nancy wasn't really wanting to talk to her. She knows when something's going on with, like, Mike. It's not like Karen is just. She's trying in denial. She's trying.
[01:37:55] Speaker C: Actually, she's reading the parenting books, you know, like, she's trying her Best she, like, they are Republicans. Like we can only expect so much from them.
[01:38:06] Speaker B: I don't think Karen is okay. I think she's just.
[01:38:08] Speaker C: You think Ted? Just.
[01:38:10] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:38:11] Speaker B: Like that's not a representation of her political views.
[01:38:14] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:38:15] Speaker D: I don't know. I kind of. I kind of feel like Karen is the wasp, you know?
[01:38:21] Speaker C: Yeah. We can still love her for it. It's not like what it is now, but like, true.
[01:38:25] Speaker A: There's a difference between MAGA and Republican, unfortunately.
[01:38:28] Speaker C: But I'm glad you guys validated me because I was just like, is it just me or am I like totally.
[01:38:32] Speaker A: No. And I think the show. I think the show backs you up too. Step. I think the show is saying that what Karen's doing is the right thing and she's continuing on Again. What Cara said too about like the show trying to resume normaly. We see. We see Mike boxing up these toys that he showed 11 that he played with her. It's this. You're supposed to be moving past all of this. That.
Yeah.
[01:38:54] Speaker C: Mind you, they could do a better job of being like, why are you acting out?
[01:38:58] Speaker A: Yes. Will take you to see a therapist.
[01:39:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Wills in therapy, maybe.
[01:39:03] Speaker D: That would be a 2000s thing, right?
[01:39:05] Speaker A: Exactly.
[01:39:06] Speaker D: In the 80s, it's just follow the rules. Right. These are the rules of the household. You will follow them. If you don't follow them, this is the punishment. Right. And the expectation is that by following the rules that that shapes your. Your moral character without any power through interrogation of self.
[01:39:22] Speaker A: Right, Right.
[01:39:23] Speaker C: And I never thought that I would be 100% on the side of an 80s parent, but I'm like, that's what they do.
[01:39:29] Speaker A: This is a 2016 parent dressed in 80s clothing. That's what's happening here.
[01:39:34] Speaker D: Last season when Karen's like, I just want you to know that you can always talk to me.
[01:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah. No 80s parent is like that.
[01:39:40] Speaker D: Yeah. I'm like, go Karen. But also like this.
[01:39:47] Speaker A: Yep. All right. So now we have Stephen Nancy rolling up on the Hollands house. They see the for sale sign in the yard. They go into the dining room and Mrs. Holland is just apologizing for not having a full cooked meal. They had to have KFC there. She makes the comment about Murray and talks about how he used to be an investigative journalist for the Chicago Sun Times who's freelance now and has agreed to take. Take Barb's case. We see the card and then Steve's trying to be supportive and is like, that's great. Just he. It's kind of like Ted, he's just. It's kind of going over his head. Meanwhile, Nancy, her mind is racing as she's connecting 30 bajillion dots. She asks what that means. And Barb's dad is obviously angry at Hopper because he's not doing anything about it. Says they have a real detective on the case. And Mrs. Holland says it means they'll find Barb. Mr. Holland says, if anyone can find her, it's this man. And that he already has leads and he's worth every penny. Nancy feels awful and is like, is that why you're selling the house?
Like, oh, don't worry about us. Which means, yes, we are. And they're hopeful for the first time in a long time.
Steve's still over there, obliviously eating his chicken. Nancy gets emotional, excuses herself to the bathroom. Steve's like, is this finger looking good?
[01:41:01] Speaker C: Love it.
[01:41:02] Speaker A: And the. The script says, and I think you could see this in the episode. It's basically a Barb shrine. That entire house, it's just Barb's face everywhere. Even in the bathroom right next to the sea.
[01:41:12] Speaker D: Watching up.
[01:41:13] Speaker A: She's literally haunting everyone. 1. And Nancy just breaks down in the bathroom. And this is the first time we hear the iconic eulogy, which will become an important song in the show. And then we see Mike going through his own sort of morning as he's going through the toys. He ends up going back into the fort, grabbing the walkie Talkie, asking if 11's there. This is. This part actually made me kind of tear up. Especially, like, you know, future events. He says it's day 352, 7:40pm he's still there. He says, if you're out there, say something or give me a sign. I won't even say anything. I just want to know that you're okay.
It's static. And then he closes it. And he's like, so stupid. And then he hears his name called. Thinks it's 11, but it's just Dustin. He and Lucas are on their bikes coming back from the arcade. They want to confirm that Max is actually Mad Max. Mike is like, I'm busy. He hangs up.
And Dustin and Lucas are like, what do we do now? Dustin says they should stick to the plan. Lucas says Mike's not gonna like it. Dustin says their party's a democracy, not a dictatorship. And Lucas is like, what if Max says no? Dustin purrs again. And it's like, how can we Max say no to these? And Lucas is just like, g.
So they head home. And then as Dustin goes inside, his house. He hears something in the trash can, thinks it's his cat, but then when it doesn't continue, heads inside. And it's very similar to the noise that Hopper heard in the cornfield earlier on.
So then at the Byers, Joyce is making popcorn. Bob is filming her with his giant camcorder, telling her that it's the future. Will's drawing a picture of himself as zombie boy in his room. Jonathan comes in, and I love this. This scene between Jonathan and Will. Their relationship dynamic is one of the best of the series. And it is so well done continuing on from season one. And I just love it.
[01:42:53] Speaker C: This is the heart, right?
[01:42:55] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:42:56] Speaker B: There's such a contrast between Mike and Nancy and their sibling relationship and Jonathan and Will. Like, even before Jonathan, or, sorry, Will, went missing, Jonathan, like, we always say, he's like the parentified child of the family. Like, he takes care of his little brother. Brother. And he very much acts like a parental figure, but also a brother.
And then you have Nancy and Mike who are, like, chasing each other through the house and screaming about, you know,
[01:43:24] Speaker D: Will clearly hero worships Jonathan. Right?
[01:43:27] Speaker B: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:43:29] Speaker C: Well, they went through a lot more trauma too, like with the divorce of their parents, Joyce being a single mom and not being home as much. Jonathan had to step in in those regards. So there, of course, the relationship would be very different from. From Mike and Nancy, who are quite privileged in there.
[01:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:43:45] Speaker A: And also, too want to point out, like, and it's talked about in the scene, like, Jonathan talks about how Will's his best friend. When you are an outsider and you do not have many other friends, your siblings really do kind of become your best friends in a lot of ways. And I think I'm. I'm excited because I think the show's going to explore Jonathan needing to branch out a little bit more, because that's kind of been pointed out twice in this episode. And I'm like, yes, let's get Jonathan in with the other teenagers. Let's have him explore his friendships and dynamics in that regard, because I think that's interesting. But Jonathan encourages Will, and Will, like, rants at him and snaps and says everyone treats him like he's gonna break, naming his friends. And Joyce, like he's a baby, can't handle things on his own. It doesn't help. It just makes me feel more like a freak. Jonathan tells him that he's not a freak, and Will says, yes, I am. I am phenomenal. Acting on Noah Schnapp's part, Like, I really believed it and he goes back to drawing and Jonathan's like changing tactics. He says, you know what you are? Freak. Will's like, what? Jonathan's like, yeah, but you know what? Do you want to be normal? Do you want to be just like everyone else? Being a freak is the best. I'm a freak. Well's like, is that why you don't have any friends? Jonathan's like, shots fired. He's like, I friends Will. And then Will's like, is that why you're always hanging out with me? Jonathan says, cuz you're my best friend. And I would rather be best friends with zombie boy than with a boring nobody. You know what I mean? And then he again brings up music as the way of relating to, to Will. And then would you rather be a Kenny Rogers or a Bowie? Will Shutters. But then of course we hear Kenny Rogers. I love Kenny Rogers.
Bob comes in and then he like, he's just oblivious. And then he sees the VHS tapes and picks up Mr. Mom and goes and like leaves the room. And it's just, it's just funny. He's pure and like you said Carl, like we are invited to laugh at him, but it's not the sense of like we're poking fun at him like we do with Ted. It's just a very, like this person likes what he likes and it's a little strange, but there's nothing wrong with that. You know, he's pure. He is.
[01:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:45:46] Speaker A: So then we next see everyone watching Jonathan's yawning. Bob is just cackling away.
Fun fact. Tim Ives, the show cinematographer, tried really hard to replicate the lighting style that was done in the 80s, which is at night they would often have a blue light shining through the window. And he tried very hard to do that with this show, which I, I thought was really cool.
[01:46:06] Speaker D: Well, so I just, I have a question at this juncture.
How did Joyce pay to repair this house?
[01:46:14] Speaker A: Bob, I think Bob Sug.
I bet the government probably. That was probably one of the stipulations
[01:46:22] Speaker C: that makes sense to get rid of the evidence.
[01:46:24] Speaker D: Insurance is not going to cover. I flamethrowered my hallway and blood.
[01:46:28] Speaker A: Everyone have insurance?
[01:46:30] Speaker D: So like insurance wasn't going to cover. Cover this. Joyce does not have the money to cover this. I'm just like, that house was destroyed at the end of season one and now it's fine.
[01:46:39] Speaker C: Probably part of the deal that Hop made. Right? Like he has to get therapy. You have to help them in every way.
[01:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:46:46] Speaker D: Which the government is like, you are banned from owning Christmas lights.
[01:46:49] Speaker C: Yeah, we're just gonna take these lifetime
[01:46:53] Speaker A: supply of phones for the rest of your, you know, rest of time at Will's life.
[01:46:57] Speaker C: I wanna. I wanna talk about Will and Jonathan and their relationship to Bob. We're not getting a lot of it. It in this episode, of course, but from the little bit that we're getting here, this new routine that they've apparently set up, maybe it's Friday night. Every Friday night's movie night with Bob and Mom and the boys are. They're teenagers. Right. But they're down for it. And I thought that this was. The small little scene is a really healthy dynamic. I think it. Maybe they will later, but at the moment, I think they could have leaned into the whole trope of like, terrible stepfather, terrible step parent coming in. Kids don't trust or don't want to be around them or gonna make up a fuss.
[01:47:35] Speaker D: Bob could have been a Ted.
Well, or that from Buffy. Sorry.
[01:47:39] Speaker B: Yeah, from Buffy.
[01:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Not the other Ted. Evil robot getting our Joyces and Ted's mixed up here. Yeah.
[01:47:44] Speaker C: But I think it's a nice.
I think it's nice to show that they've allowed this routine that helps their mom into their lives. You know, that this dorky, dweeby, nerdy guy, for whatever reason his mom has, their mom likes him. And they're going with the flow. They, sure, they tease a little bit behind the scenes. They have, like, knowing looks with each other.
But they're there.
[01:48:10] Speaker A: Right.
[01:48:10] Speaker C: They're gonna have the possibility, they're gonna sit with him.
[01:48:13] Speaker B: They're gonna let this ability that they never had, which is like, you know, their mom. If their mom feels secure, then they're gonna feel secure. And I think that's what they're trying to show with Bob. That, like, their mom's happy. Joyce. Yeah, Like, Joyce is happy. Joyce feels safe with Bob. And so the kids feel safe. And they haven't had that stability, especially when Will went missing. And I don't think when their dad was around either. So it is a nice, like, change of pace.
[01:48:41] Speaker D: If one wanted to float a conspiracy theory. I'm not seriously suggesting that this is the case.
[01:48:46] Speaker A: Hey, Murray.
Thank you.
[01:48:48] Speaker D: That attributes too much cunning to Bob. And Bob has not a single bone of guile in his body.
But one could see Bob as intentionally setting himself up as a foil to Will and Jonathan. Right. Like, I think there's something to be said for the fact that sometimes you need to rebel against your parents and each know you don't necessarily want your parents or your dad to be cool. Right. Because cool is often, especially as you get into adolescence, the opposite of whatever your parents are. And so, like, if Bob were a more guileful person, one could argue that he's actually like amping up these corny parts of his personality because he knows that it's going to create a space in which Will and Jonathan can oppose that in a safe and healthy way. Way. Again, I don't seriously think that Bob has any intention of doing that consciously, but the show is definitely doing that, right?
[01:49:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting that Will seems perfectly content. Joyce and Bob are having the time of their lives. Jonathan's the one yawning. And I think again, that's a signal that Jonathan needs to go find friends. He needs to go find his own little connections and stuff outside of his family. Like, it's time. So the phone rings. Joyce also having ptsd. And Bob's like, it's okay, it's okay. Just let it go. It's probably just a crank call. So sweet. The phone continues to ring. We cut to the lab where a scientist is listening to music and bouncing a ball against the wall. Just be bopping on and then unaware of the alarms all going off behind
[01:50:27] Speaker B: him, loud as this damn music.
[01:50:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I looked it up. The song he's listening to is Every Other Girl by Prehistoric Wolves and it is indeed a bop.
So everyone insert their own song that they would be be bopping along to that they would miss this. Mandy.
Oh, Mandy. Could you imagine?
We cut to the buyers later that night. The house is quiet. It's around 1:30am Will gets up to use the bathroom. Like the. The brilliance, I will say about this episode is that it is so anticlimactic and they're setting it up to be so normal. We're waiting for the other shoe to drop. We're on edge along with the characters, but nothing's happening. So we're like, okay, well, maybe it is just fine. And then we get this moment. We're like, oh crap, something's happening. And we see the orange light flashing outside and the front door opens on its own. And we see that the outside is the upside down. Will's got the goosebumps on his neck.
I want to mark that's the first time we see it. We're going to see it many more times. He steps outside, we see the giant funnel cloud with the orange lightning illuminating a giant spider looking thing in the sky.
[01:51:34] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:51:35] Speaker A: And then we are like, no, no, no, no, no. Stay there. We jump to Hopper's house now. He gets home from a long day. He's in a cabin in the woods now, which is completely new. He hikes for a bit. We see him step over a trip wire before arriving at the house and doing a rhythmic knock. We hear the locks and there's a lot of locks being undone and the TV's on. We get this really cool shot where he just takes off his hat and jacket and walks over to the tv and the camera follows him and pans around the room so we see that there's nobody else there there. He turns off the tv, sets his gun on the counter, grabs a drink from the fridge and then stands and looks at the table. And that's when we see a plate of unfinished Eggos. And he goes, hey, what did we talk about?
And when we hear a girl's voice say, no signal, Hop sits down and says, what? We hear the footsteps approaching.
[01:52:21] Speaker B: She.
[01:52:22] Speaker A: She says, it's 8:1:5, you're late. And then she sits down and we realize it's 11 with the cutest little curly pixie cut. And it's so freaking cute. I love it.
[01:52:34] Speaker B: Shocking. Oh my God.
It's like when told us angel was a vampire.
[01:52:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:52:41] Speaker C: And also like Millie Bobby Brown made $1 million from the scene.
[01:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Literally.
[01:52:48] Speaker C: For being in the episode.
[01:52:50] Speaker D: I'm confused. Is this Hopper's place from season one? Is this a different.
[01:52:54] Speaker A: No, this is a different place.
[01:52:56] Speaker D: Is he maintaining two residences now? So do like the deputies or whatever they are patrolmen, whatever. Do they know that he's living at this cabin?
[01:53:06] Speaker C: Probably not.
[01:53:07] Speaker D: Cuz it's just like they showed up and it previously.
[01:53:10] Speaker A: Oh, so you're saying like keeping his trailer also there?
[01:53:14] Speaker C: I think it's a front.
[01:53:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:53:15] Speaker A: Yeah, he could be.
[01:53:16] Speaker D: It's just like how much of his time is there with 11 and how much? I. I don't know. I just. I don't know why my mind goes to these logistical things. But I'm just like, like I think
[01:53:25] Speaker C: when he's going home, I think when he's like, I'm heading home, people would assume the trailer from where. What we saw in season one, but really he's going home to L. It
[01:53:34] Speaker D: sounds like she don't find him there. They're just assuming at a certain time sleeping over at some woman's house.
[01:53:39] Speaker A: Yeah, right, sure.
[01:53:40] Speaker C: But like she, she obviously expects him home for dinner time and when he's late he has to signal and he doesn't. They have a whole routine. I don't think he ever leaves her alone there overnight. I think he's always home.
[01:53:50] Speaker D: Yep.
[01:53:51] Speaker C: And then I think the reason the camera follows him all the way through the cabin is to give you this idea. Like, okay, so he's not where he was last season with all these hoes, these Hawking hoes.
Hawkins hoes.
[01:54:04] Speaker A: Hopper's Hawkins hoes.
[01:54:06] Speaker C: Hoes.
But he. But he. But they're showing that, like, it is actually a quite clean and tidy cabin.
The TV being on.
Insinuation.
Feeling.
[01:54:18] Speaker A: Feeling.
[01:54:19] Speaker C: Yeah. There's family putting the gun on the counter side.
But, like, family vibes.
[01:54:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:54:26] Speaker C: And, like, the rules. Right. Dessert comes after. Right. Those kind of things. So, like, they want to establish that he has set up a home for her.
[01:54:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:54:33] Speaker D: I mean, he's adopted Elle to replace his dead daughter. Right. Like, this is his way of dealing with.
[01:54:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:54:39] Speaker C: Oh, brother. I want to make him feel better.
[01:54:43] Speaker D: He is a damaged, damaged man.
[01:54:46] Speaker C: I can change him.
[01:54:48] Speaker D: Leia can help with that.
[01:54:50] Speaker B: I love it so much.
[01:54:51] Speaker A: That's a really. That's a really good point, Steph. And that contrasts the opening scene with Hopper in the first season where we opened up on a child's drawing, and then we see the floral wallpaper, so we're like, oh, a child lives here. A woman lives here. And then you pan around, it's just absolute trash. Beer cans everywhere.
Yeah, man.
[01:55:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:55:11] Speaker A: And. But now it's. It's different. It's very domesticated and stuff. And even the way that he takes talks with El is so paternal. He leans forward and says, hey, now what did we talk about? And he's. He lowers his tone. He's very gentle with her. And you get the sense that this is good for him.
[01:55:28] Speaker D: Yeah.
[01:55:29] Speaker A: Also probably good for.
[01:55:30] Speaker B: I was gonna say the way that he probably lives this double life or, like, goes to this place is that he can't be late for work anymore. Like, he has to show up on time so nobody comes looking for him. He has to do what he's supposed to be doing so that nobody asks questions, God forbid, but, you know, gotta do what you gotta do.
[01:55:49] Speaker C: And there's this endearing choice that Millie Bobby Brown made as 11. They're eating dinner, and Hopper is, like, concentrating on his food, as dads do.
[01:55:57] Speaker B: Right.
[01:55:57] Speaker C: He's like, I'm eating. I'm eating. It's 8, 15. I'm hungry. And she keeps looking up at him like she's eating this disgusting looking potato, I assume.
[01:56:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:56:05] Speaker C: Lasagna. She keeps glancing up like she's. And, like, this is obviously a routine they've Set up for who knows how long? Like, at least maybe not.
[01:56:12] Speaker D: Maybe the whole 11, 152 days.
[01:56:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, probably, like, the last six months at least, like, until he finally convinced her, like, you're gonna live here, and we're gonna have a routine look. She's still amazing.
[01:56:24] Speaker D: You Eggos to this box of the wood. Yeah.
[01:56:26] Speaker C: There's, like, these stump Eggos. You can't keep eating. We have to, actually. You need a life. And so let's just say it's been, like, 10 months of this, but she's still amazed that she's eating with this guy who's, like, more like her dad than anyone else has been. Right.
[01:56:42] Speaker D: Well, so keep in mind, this is the dynamic she is used to because she had Papa before this. Right. And so Hopper is slotting into that space that was left open with Brenner's departure. As much as she was running away from the lab, there was that moment that she was tempted to go back with Papa, partly because I think she thought that would save her friends.
But, you know, she yearns for that father figure. Right. And so Hopper taking that role over, obviously, in a much more conscientious way is good for her, but I think she welcomes that quite a bit as much as he welcomes it. They are made for each other in that way. There's that synergy there.
[01:57:29] Speaker B: Right. But it's not.
[01:57:30] Speaker C: He's not manipulating her. He's genuinely wanting to teach her that these, like. Like, you know, these. These life skills, but also provide a. A good place for her to be as far as she can have, because she's on the run. Papa was using her, obviously, for his own nefarious means, and he didn't actually care.
[01:57:50] Speaker D: Well, okay, but did. Did he not actually care about her? Because here's the thing, is one can argue that parent, that all parents, you know, ultimately are shaping their children in a selfish way in the sense that, like, they are trying to imprint upon their children and turn their children into what they believe their children need to be for the world that they live in. Right.
And I think that, you know, much like Dr. Walsh in the initiative with Riley, like, I think that Brenner with 11, he. I think he genuinely cared for her. But to him. Him, he needed her to be that weapon. Right?
And Hopper is now doing something, you know, that you could say is the same thing he is now raising her for Hopper's idea of what 11 should be. Right.
The difference is, obviously that Hopper's method of child rearing is far more Acceptable and less abusive of.
[01:58:56] Speaker C: I think this is a fascinating take for someone who's only watched season one because we. We do get more Brenner.
Or do we may. You know what? I'm not gonna say anything. I'm just gonna say, having watched the
[01:59:07] Speaker A: whole show, I'm not.
[01:59:08] Speaker D: I'm not trying to def.
[01:59:09] Speaker C: The comparison of Hopper and him and their love is. It's. It gets more.
It's.
[01:59:14] Speaker A: It.
[01:59:14] Speaker C: It moves away from each other.
[01:59:16] Speaker A: I think the way Matthew Modine played it, especially in that final scene with 11, there was a. An element. Element that seemed like care there, but I think it's ambiguous what.
How deep that goes in. Like, it's obvious he cares about her as a weapon, but it's like, okay, does he actually care about her? As close as he can to caring about some. We just don't know how he can care about people.
[01:59:39] Speaker C: It's like the mayor loving Faith versus Giles.
[01:59:43] Speaker A: It's like, how are. How capable are they of loving? And is that even a adequate source of love? Love? And how much of that is mixed up to her powers? If 11 didn't have powers, would he care about her? Like, there's just a lot of questions.
[01:59:55] Speaker C: Or, like, why, like, would he name her something other than a number? Like, she is number 11 to him.
[02:00:01] Speaker A: Right. I think.
[02:00:02] Speaker B: I think Brenner is the. He's so manipulative that he performs the act of.
Of caring because he knows that that's what a child under his career would respond to. To make her do what he wants her to do.
[02:00:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:00:19] Speaker B: I think he dangles the care in front of her face so that she will give. She will give in to what he needs her to do, which is ultimately to, like, you know, the power. Powers and exploiting her powers and her. So I think he performs it. I don't think he actually feels care for her other, like, outside of caring about his creation, because that's when he thinks she is.
[02:00:44] Speaker C: Remember, he, like, gives her physical touch and, like, gives her comfort with, like, you know, by putting his hand on hers.
[02:00:50] Speaker A: But it's only when he needs her
[02:00:51] Speaker C: to do something dangerous.
[02:00:53] Speaker B: And then he withholds it when he wants to punish her. He locks her up and he takes it away from her.
[02:00:58] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
[02:00:59] Speaker C: All this to say, Hopper, like, I'm not a big fan of the dinner choices you've gotten.
[02:01:05] Speaker A: However he's having dinner, that's a huge however.
[02:01:08] Speaker C: They're having family dinner.
And what, she's 12 years old. What else is she gonna make besides heating up and Leaving on the table these TV trays.
[02:01:21] Speaker B: I feel like nutrition was not the
[02:01:23] Speaker C: best in the 80s, although it had peas there.
[02:01:27] Speaker D: And clearly, like, it's a routine to the point where, like, he's late. Right. It's not just he shows up. When he shows up. She's used to him arriving a certain time. Yeah. Something that Stranger Things overall reminded me a lot of is another Netflix show called the oa. Any of you watched that? I've heard of it.
[02:01:45] Speaker B: Sorry.
[02:01:46] Speaker D: It only had two seasons, unfortunately. And it's a little bit more of an experimental show in terms of the storytelling, but it stars and was written by Brit Marling.
And it has this similar approach in terms of, like an abusive person experimenting on people who have this ability to tune themselves into the universe. And it's very ambiguous in terms of what is actually happening, but it's near death experiences and this idea that people can translate themselves into different universes or something.
And just Stranger Things has similar vibes to that, where it's like we're talking about people with these psychic abilities and people navigating with this parallel dimension, whatever this upside down is.
And although the OA wasn't set in the 80s, it is set in kind of a very stylized world. And I think it's interesting that these two shows are very similar in terms of when they were produced. Not exactly the same in terms of storytelling, but it's a fascinating trend of these magical realism shows that are playing around with a lot of science fiction and fantasy tropes, but not wanting to be comic book science fiction and fantasy. Like you would get in Buffy and Angel. Right. Where it's like we have these superheroed people. As much as the kids compare.
[02:03:25] Speaker B: Like a Chosen One.
[02:03:26] Speaker D: Yeah. As much as the kids compare. Compare L to a superhero. She's very much not a superhero, at least not yet.
And the show tries its best to be grounded despite the fact that it is.
[02:03:39] Speaker A: I really do like that.
[02:03:40] Speaker D: A fantastical show.
[02:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's. I think that's what draws a lot of us, and that's why we connect with the characters, because the show is fairly grounded, at least at this point.
But, yeah, I. I think the first time I saw this, I mean, I didn't think that El was dead, but I love the dynamic that they're mixing up with Elle and Hopper now. I think that's going to be really fantastic, especially with her history with Brenner and also with Hopper's damaged goods and all of that stuff. Like, even here you can see, like, her being like, you didn't come on time. Hopper struggles with that. Like, I could see that being a little bit of a rub later on, and I think that's going to be really fun to. To watch unfold.
[02:04:18] Speaker D: So just win till she hits puberty and she becomes an angsty teenager.
[02:04:23] Speaker C: There's a season of that.
[02:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
But, man, what a good, good season opener. And thank you, Steph and Cara, for joining us. I feel like this was ten times more fascinating, you guys here.
[02:04:34] Speaker D: And, yeah, thanks for having us.
[02:04:38] Speaker B: You have to keep watching and you have to come back and help us.
[02:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I want you to come back. That'd be so fun.
[02:04:43] Speaker D: I will keep watching when you have me back. Yes. Cool.
[02:04:46] Speaker A: Perfect. Yeah. Because we don't want you to see past it. That'd be. It's fun to hear your takes, not knowing what's going to happen in the future.
[02:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[02:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah.
[02:04:53] Speaker B: Love it.
[02:04:54] Speaker A: But, yeah. Thank you, listeners, and we hope you guys enjoyed this as well. Let us know your thoughts on the episode and we will talk to you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us on Investigating angel podcast gmail.com sa.
