[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Hi, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are talking about season two, episode two, Trick or Treat Freak. Or as it was previously known as the Boy who Came Back to Life. That was the fake name.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: I like Trick or Treat Freak. Freak. So much better.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I do, too. I like how they're like, no one must know that it's a Halloween episode, guys.
That's a huge spoiler. We have to be the boy who Came Back to Life.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: So special about Halloween. Ooh, is Halloween like, the national, like, Independence Day of the demo?
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah, the Upside Down. It's the Fourth of July.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Their Fourth of July. Yeah.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: It's like in the Buffy verse. Like, Halloween is like a sacred, hollow night where even the demons know you don't go out and do anything.
They always do.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: They do every year.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: There's always something going on on Halloween.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: My favorite was in season seven, when Spike was getting mad in the Halloween episode of the Vampires, being like, we don't go out. You guys know this. I was like, in season two, Spike, who is taking full advantage seriously of
[00:01:53] Speaker B: everything, snatching up kids who are turned into demons, making it literally walking around small children.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: This is neat.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Like, so stupid.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: God.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: I agree. Anyway. All right. Written and directed by The Duffers. Aired October 27, 2017.
Was originally the first episode in the series to be given a mature rating, which I don't know why this EP would be.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: The drinking would be like the.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Oh, I'm always thinking.
Yeah.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Was there violence?
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Well, I would say like Billy yelling at Max.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: Billy.
Yeah, I. I feel like it was probably, like, the party.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah, like, the whole.
[00:02:42] Speaker B: That whole thing, you know, and then Nancy being completely hammered and like.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, probably. Probably, actually.
So apparently the Duffers fought really, really, really hard to get these Ghostbuster outfits. They were like, it's just integral. It's so important for the show.
They said Halloween was one of the big ideas that we wanted to hang the season on. Once we started thinking about Halloween, one of the first big ideas that we fell in love with was this image of all our kids in Ghostbuster outfits. 1. And obviously we have, you know, Will and, like, Halloween.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: The holiday or the movie?
[00:03:19] Speaker A: Oh, the holiday.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Wanted to hang the whole season. The holiday. Okay. Interesting.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah. The holiday itself, which they kind of do that, like, last Last season was Christmas, slash Thanksgiving. This season is Halloween. Next season will be Fourth of July.
And then season four doesn't really have a holiday.
It's spring break.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Essentially.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: I've never really noticed that, but. Yeah, that's. That's cool. Yeah.
[00:03:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And then season five doesn't. But for the first three seasons, there's, like, a holiday, and they would always kind of drop it around a holiday. So when they first aired the show, it was around the 4th of July. And then obviously this one's around Halloween, and. Yeah.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: So I love when shows do that. I love when it's, like, around the holiday and they do a holiday episode.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: It kind of feels like real world in a way.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
But also, it's like, I just feel like those types of episodes are usually a departure from the regular storyline that's happening, and they just kind of do something fun, and it's usually a nice little treat.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: But I feel like this episode wasn't that obviously, like, this was very much.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: This one had fun elements, though, like watching the kids get all ready and then, like, go in their costumes to school and then go trick or treating. But then there's actually a review I'm going to read later on, which is talking about how this is very much a transitional episode, setting up a lot of stuff. Like, obviously, there's things that are happening in this episode, but it's a lot more about the characters and putting them all where they need to go before we continue on with the rest of the storyline.
Right. But, yeah, okay, so the Duffers were like, we really want to see Will in his Ghostbusters outfit standing on this neighborhood street, have a giant shadow monster rise up over him. We called it Trick or Treat street adds mad Duffer. Then we had to pray that we were going to get the rights to use Ghostbusters costumes. Well, they didn't get the rights.
So then Sean Levy contacted the filmmaker, Ivan Reitman, and he and the Duffers were able to convince him, with Levy saying, we ultimately had a personal conversation in which we laid out why we loved his film and why those costumes were so perfect for our franchise. Ivan agreed and gave us the go ahead.
And what's that face for?
[00:05:34] Speaker B: What's the problem?
[00:05:37] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: It's like a TV show on Netflix. Like, I don't. Yeah.
[00:05:42] Speaker A: I would be very curious if anybody works in the industry and, like, listens if you guys know, because I. I bet you there's a lot of, like, stuff that I just don't even think about that comes with giving the rights or not the rights, but like giving people permission to use your stuff in a show.
But.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: But even like the. Who you going to call? Like, I feel like people use that in a lot of different shows. Like, it's referenced a lot. Like.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: But that's.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Do they have to get permission for that? It was the costume or it's just the image.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: It was the costume. Yeah, because they were.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: They could have just pretended they were exter.
Like that lady said.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah, who works Terminators? And then. Yeah, exactly.
But, yeah, so they eventually got. They got the go ahead.
There's a quote where apparently Ivan Reitman was gonna give it to them after they started talking to them, but he. He made them, like, give him the whole spiel and like, talk about how, like, the Duffers love the show or that love the movie so much that they had it memorized and it's what they watched growing up.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Hollywood is so narcissistic in, like, every single way.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: It'.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Please compliment me. My boot.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
So Stranger things in the 80s says the Ghostbusters costumes also say something thematic. These kids see themselves as small scale professionals in the supernatural business. They don't just want to survive monsters. They want to chase them, trap them, and understand them.
And for a minute there, I was kind of like, well, I mean, why do you have to have Ghostbusters? But then as I was watching the episode and then I was, as I was thinking on to later on in the season, I realized that it really does kind of set up a lot of stuff.
And I'll talk about it later. But their Ghostbusters costumes very nicely fit in with Elle's costume that she wants to go in, which is being a ghost, which I thought was so cute.
Probably heard Mike talking about it in his Ford or when she's spying on him and was like, I'm gonna be a ghost so that he'll know it's me. He'll come find me.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: You know, he'll bust me in the woods.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Bust me. Yeah. She's like, oh, darn, he found me. But.
But, like, she wants to be a part of the group. She's. And this is Elle's episode where we're really seeing how hard she's fighting in a lot of ways against Hopper's rules, because she's going, when does my life begin? She's Rapunzel in the tower, going, okay, let me. Let me join. Like, basically my found family, the people that I've chosen as my family. I'm not allowed to see them. And so her putting on that ghost costume is just a really cute way of trying to be part of their group.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: But it is.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: So the Halloween scenes were shot over two nights and featured 150 to 200 extras, all wearing masks sourced by property master Linda Rice. And interestingly, she had to get all, like, new masks, like, copies, because she says the masks that they made in the 80s were all made to be thrown away. Their disposable, essentially. So she said they were all disintegrating, so she had to find completely new masks. And. Which I never really thought about. But imagine 200 different masks.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Nothing. Yeah.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: And then this is the quote that I was talking about earlier about how this episode is a transitional episode. Nerds. That Geek.com says this episode helps keep the plot grounded and balanced by breaking away from the big storyline for a brief moment. It is a particular storytelling device that often delivers mixed results. I mean, we talk about standalone episodes all the time. We've kind of lost that a little bit with the shorter seasons, but they're saying that, you know, they can be hit or miss. Sometimes they can be lost episodes, just a tale thrown into the mix to fill the episode count, but other times, they're completely and utterly brilliant, finding a way to give us just enough plot while still finding ways to entertain, as was the case with the second chapter of season two with Trick or Treat Freak.
And according to them, they really enjoyed this episode, slowing down a little bit because it advances the plot so somewhat, but it also slows down the story to allow for some answers to be had and then also some burning questions and follow up on the issues that were brought forth in the first season or the first episode of the season.
Yeah, but I. I forgot to ask you, but what did you think of this episode overall, now that we've covered it in depth?
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I liked it. I love a Halloween episode.
I really liked all the stuff that was going on between the characters. We meet Erica in this episode.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: My girl Erica.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: I love her. She's so sassy, funny.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: I texted so funny. And I was like, this is your daughter.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Like, oh, my God. Erica reminds me my daughter.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: So that was really fun. And then obviously, we get some more Max, which I always love.
I don't remember Billy being so, like, intense. He's a scary guy.
[00:10:32] Speaker A: I really love to hear your thoughts about Billy.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: I remember, like, certain things about Billy, but not this level of aggression from him.
Yeah, I don't think he's hot anymore. He's very Disturbing.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: I'm like, were you just watching for Vibes before?
[00:10:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm just like, ugh. Anyway, yo, this was a good episode. I really like this stuff with Nancy. I think she's, like, unraveling. That was.
We've been seeing this, like, on the horizon for a while.
Yeah, I thought it was great. What did you think?
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought it was really great. I think there's a lot of fun, character dynamic stuff to discuss, a lot of, like, interesting, juicy things that are happening now. I like when shows have their characters all kind of unraveling and falling apart early on in the season, because that means we're going to have some really interesting stuff happening later on down the line as everybody kind of, like, deals with it all. But, yeah, I think it was really great. I think I'm liking that we're getting a little bit of repercussions and consequences for the actions in the last season.
I'm still waiting for somebody to confront Hopper on his decision to throw Elle under the bus.
I think that's probably going to be something we're just gonna have to assume they discussed off camera, because I think it would have been brought up by now, but maybe they'll. They'll bring it up later. Who knows?
[00:11:59] Speaker B: Maybe. We shall see.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So everyone's trying to figure out how to move on in this episode. I think it was Cara, last episode, that was talking about how the end of season one was very much okay. We're returning back to normalcy.
Like, you know, the moms are back in the kitchen, and everyone's, you know, having. Celebrating the holidays. You know, the camera was given to Jonathan. Steve and Nancy are back to you. Like, it just was very much okay. Everybody's back to normal. And I like that we have Joyce and Nancy, in particular, really struggling with the fact that they can't just go back to the way that their lives were before. And then Elle over here going, okay, I want to have a normal life. When does that start? I'm, like, not okay with being shut up right now. So I just. I really like that we're seeing a lot of these characters struggling with the fact that their lives were so completely changed last season, and they can't just go back to pretending like everything was normal before all of that happened. And I think that's very realistic. So.
All right, jumping into the episode, we start off with a flashback, and this gives us our first answer of what was happening with Elle, why she got with Hop. Well, partially why she's with Hopper. We haven't gotten to that part yet? We get flashbacks from the season one finale. Elle wakes up in the Upside down, very similar to Barb. She's in the schoolroom version of where she defeated the demo. She's just exhausted, still bleeding out of her ears, like, not doing well. She wanders the hall yelling for Mike. She hears voices coming from down the hall in the place where the demo popped through, and she finds that hole pulsing with red light. Peering through, she sees flashlights as officers go through the crime scene on the other side. We realize this is only minutes after everything went down in the finale, which I'm like, okay, how did she get to the Upside Down?
There was no rift when she was defeating the Demogorgon in season one.
So how.
What? I don't know. Did she just disintegrate into tiny little particles and react?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Go through the wall back?
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, right. I'm just very curious how that happened.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: I don't think we really see. I feel like there was, like, a giant light, like, a giant boom. Like, we don't know, maybe the power from her fighting the Demogorgon opened up, like, another portal or whatever.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: But when we see it, there was nothing.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: I mean, the whole point is, like, we're not supposed to know where she is.
So I feel like, yeah, they weren't gonna show.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know.
I don't think we ever quite see anything like that ever again in the show, which makes me think that it's leftovers from when they were planning on Elle dying and then the season being over. They never had to fully explain what happened to her, but anyways, all right. So she ends up realizing that she could get back to the right side up, so she ends up sticking her hand through, and it's like that disgusting lube stuff again. And you can tell she's, like, grossed out by it. Initially, I'd never got that, like, the rift itself was too small for her. I thought she just didn't want to get all gross. So then she decided to make the whole thing.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: That's what I would have done. Like, I need this to be bigger. Also, I can't touch my skin as I'm going through it or any part of.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Guess this is my home now. Guess I stay in the Upside down for the rest of my life.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Yuck.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: But then she ends up getting through, making the hole bigger with her power, and we get another mirroring shot of her coming through the same way the Demogorgon did originally.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: Another birth shot.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Yeah. The script even notes this too. It's a rebirth. She's reborn. You guys know.
Oh, no.
We see that the school is empty. She makes her way through the hallway.
Concept artist Michael Mayer Jr explored alternative concepts for Eleven being transported the upside down in the art, Eleven is sent flying through a glowing blue portal and arrives in the Upside Downs woods rather than Mr. Clark's classroom. So originally they thought it was going to be a portal. Maybe they still went with that portal idea, but, yeah, I don't know. I have questions anyway. I don't think the show has answers. In the Wheeler's house.
Else traveling to the Wheelers. And the script says that she's almost home. She sees the Wheeler's house as her. As her home. She says there's a bunch of police and emergency vehicles all around the house. Inside, we have a long panning shot of Karen and Ted talking to agents in separate rooms and Mike also talking to them in a separate room.
Karen's asking what happens if the Russians come looking for Ella at her house. The agents say that they don't know where she is, the Russians know where she is, and she can't contact them without the agents knowing. We see that they're bugging the phones and who knows what else they're doing to make it so that if Elle makes contact with them, they're going to figure out immediately where she is. And then we see another agent telling Ted that the best thing he can do is go on with his life. And Ted is like, keep a top secret. And then he salutes. He's like, understood, we're all patriots in this house. And I'm like, okay, Ted. Then he goes and blabs it all to his co worker, as we learned in the last episode. And then his co worker went and told Murray.
So great job, Ted. Excellent soldier there.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Ted is not a serious person.
He's never been a serious person.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: I just want to know how he got Karen.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: How. Yeah, how he pulled Karen. He must have been better. Like, he must have been more like, I don't know, like Steve more of a catch in his youth. I don't know.
[00:17:18] Speaker A: A catch in his youth. Maybe he just had a lot of money, and Karen was like, you know what? I want to be financially secure. And he doesn't look like he has
[00:17:26] Speaker B: a lot of money. He looks like a wet noodle most of the time.
It's just like. So, yeah, we're all patriots.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: You gotta plug your nose. Yeah, we're all patriots in this house.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: I don't know why I have such beef with Ted. I Just really do.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: It's hilarious.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Maybe it's because it's like, I just want a better husband for Karen, you know?
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
Karen did choose him, though, Leia. So, you know, women's rights and women's wrongs.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: It is the 80s. Like, did she, though?
[00:17:59] Speaker A: I mean. I mean, do we.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Were there a lot of options for her?
[00:18:06] Speaker A: My mind was going worse. I was like, I don't think Ted is. Ted is neglectful.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: And I'm not saying it's like an arranged marriage.
I'm just saying, like, it's Hawkins.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Who else? What? It was either him or Hopper. And, like, I would have rather Hopper for sure. But it's all good, Karen. We'll keep Ted for now.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: We'll keep Ted for now.
So we see Mike talking to some agents. He says he's told them everything. That he doesn't know where Elle is, and even if he did, he would never tell them where she is. We see Elle approaching the window. She watches the agents talking to Mike, saying that Elle is very dangerous and that the story she told him weren't true, that he would be putting himself and others at risk if she contacted him. Which, this is, like, number one red flag for Elle and her trying to keep other people safe. And we've seen this in season one. She will do whatever is necessary to keep those she loves safe, even if it means sacrificing her own happiness.
So Mike looks through the window and kind of like. Or, like, between the curtains and thinks he sees L. They have a moment where they stare at each other, but, like, we're not sure if Mike sees her or not. The agents noticed, and they swarm outside, but, you know, Elle's gone. And then we hear helicopter. See everybody wandering around the woods. Then we find Elle hiding under a tree, crying.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: So sad.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: This girl does not know peas.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: No, it's okay.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: She's with Daddy Hopper now.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: She's winning at life.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: She is.
[00:19:32] Speaker A: So then in Hopper's cabin, he's making some French toast, it looks like. And then his jump. Scared by Ellen in a sheet and that she's made into a ghost costume. She's like ghost Halloween. And explains that the bad men wouldn't see her if she dressed like this for trick or treating. He tells her that she knows the rules and that he doesn't care if they would see her because it's a risk, and they don't take risks.
They are stupid. And Al answers back really angrily, we are not stupid. He tells her to take it off and sit down. And eat. She's mad. He tells her that he will get off early that night and get them some candy and they can sit around and watch a scary movie. He goes, how's that for compromise? She doesn't know that word. So he spells it, emphasizing the word promise and compromise.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Oh, then, right then, we are like, he's late.
Yeah.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: It's the thought that counts, though. It's very not for L.
I feel like Hopper's, like, softening. Like, he would have never voluntarily done something like this before. He would have been forced to, like, if he had to. But you can tell that he cares about her. Her safety and her.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: You're like, he would never have done this unless he was forced to and had to. But, you know, isn't this great? He's doing it without being forced.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: Yeah, he's. He's choosing to do this because he
[00:20:45] Speaker A: knows it'll make her feel better because he set her up in the last season. So this is guilty.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: Well, we don't know that yet. We don't know that yet, Sarah.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: We saw it with our own eyes, Leia.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Okay, but I. I still think he had a plan the whole time.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: I'm just saying we can believe that.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: I believe.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: I believe.
[00:21:11] Speaker A: So then you are right, though. He definitely is softening. The script even says that he sees how upset she is, and so he, likes, intentionally softens his voice and, like, feels bad for her and was like, okay, I'll bring us candy. We'll watch a scary movie.
So then he explains that compromise is her word for the day and that it's something halfway. Elle relents and is like, 5:15. And he agrees, and she says, promise. He leans and says, yes, I promise. It's very sweet. She goes halfway happy and starts eating her food. And then he ruffles her hair and they eat. That's so cute. Oh, my gosh.
In an interview, Millie Bobby Brown said that she loved shooting scenes in the Cabin with David harbour. But, like, 11, she found the scenes of her alone incredibly boring.
When Eleven wanted to go trick or treating. And then she puts on the ghost outfit so she won't be seen.
It's the same outfit ET Wears during Halloween, but again, I just think it's so cute that she wants to dress up as a ghost.
At the Byers, Joyce is waking Will, but he's not in his room. We have a complete, like, mirroring of the first episode of season one where they can't find Will. He's in. In the bathroom. I like how she's like, what are you doing? He's literally standing over the toilet. He's like, peeing.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Peeing.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: This poor man has not a shred of privacy.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: I would be just as honestly, just as suspicious as Joyce if he disappeared ever again.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Why are you in the bathroom? What are you doing?
[00:22:34] Speaker B: I'd be like, I need to have eyes on you at all times. Pee with the door open.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: Poor Will. I know, it's so sad, but honestly, like. Like, I do. I do sympathize with Joyce. Like, it's been heavily hinted that she has had anxiety even before everything went down with Will.
So it kind of feels like in a lot of ways that's been exasperated with everything that's happened with him last season.
But, yeah, it's. I do also sympathize with Will and Jonathan over there. Or. Well, not Jonathan. Jonathan.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: She doesn't care about Jonathan.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Plenty of freedom. Probably too much.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: She has hired Jonathan to be Will's handler at this point. Like, she is paying him a salary.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: Absolutely has. It's so true.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: He is the help at this point.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: He's over there making breakfast while Joyce is like, you know, where's Will?
[00:23:29] Speaker B: He's the nanny. He is.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: He's probably been the nanny for a while now.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: So then we see Joyce putting Will's ghostbuster costume on that we saw her sewing the previous episode. I don't know if you noticed, but there's a very distance, distinct difference between Will's costume and the other three boys. It's a slightly different color and you can tell that it was like, it wasn't bought at a store that Joyce made it. We saw her in the last episode sewing it.
And I, like, there's very obvious differences between the costumes because it shows, again, how poor they are and how they can't afford to just buy a brand new costume. Which, again, I love all those little details. It's very interesting.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't notice that, but that is cool.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: So then she gets taped, put on his costume. She finds his drawing of the giant spider like, thing that he'd seen the night before. And she's like, did you have another episode? He's like, no, it's for a story I'm writing. And you can tell she doesn't believe him, but she just drops it. Then we have a montage of the boys in their costumes as they're getting their pictures taken by their moms.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: So cute.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: Cute. My gosh. Will and Dustin are all in on the picture taking. Lucas is. Until his little sister Erica Side eyes him and is like, wow, you are such a nerd. She's like, no wonder you only hang out with the boys.
And the mom's like, erica. You could tell Mrs. Sinclair is so over this girl and her attitude. Erica's like, sorry. So then she just mouths it at him. She's like, nerd.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: And you know what's so funny? I mean, we come to learn that Erica is also a huge nerd, but she's, like, seeing where she started up now, so hilarious. Like, I don't know. She's. She's such a funny character.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: She's very funny. And, you know, it makes so much sense. You and I were talking about it, I think, a couple episodes ago, about how the best boys are ones that have sisters. Especially sisters that bully them.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah. That humble them.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: They're being humbled.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: We're like, okay, I see what's going on with Lucas here.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
He has to answer to Erica when he gets home about how cool he is.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: I'm so glad she's finally been introduced. She's a great addition.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: I know. I love her.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: Mrs. Sinclair is played by Karen Renee Mouldin, who was Birdie on the Walking Dead, and then Priya Ferguson as Erica. She hasn't really been in a lot up until this point, but Finn Wolfhard, who plays Mike, obviously, funnily enough, he is actually gonna play a Ghostbuster in the later Ghostbuster movies.
And Dustin's mom is played by Katherine Curtin, and she is best known for playing Wanda Bell in Orange Is the New Black and Joanne on the TV show Insecure.
So, yeah, we then see all the boys rolling up and enjoying each other's costumes until Mike realizes that Lucas is also Venkman. And Mike's like, there can't be two Venkman. You need a change. And Lucas is like, I specifically didn't agree to be Winston. If he's so cool, why don't you be him? Mike's like, I can't, because. And then Lucas is like, because you're not black.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Oh, snap.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Just, like, argue back and forth. Oh, it's so funny. And then Dustin realizes that nobody else else dressed up for Halloween, and it's
[00:26:41] Speaker B: just, what a bunch of losers.
[00:26:43] Speaker A: Literally. Guys, like, have some whimsy.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Have some fun.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: I love this because I feel like this is. You reach a certain age, and then kids stop dressing up, and then they eventually start dressing up again. But, like, there's, like, this age where you become a little bit more self aware, and then you're like, you feel like you're being perceived by everyone, so you don't really want to do it. And I think it shows the difference between people that don't care as much about that. And also, like, the boys are still very young, and they're very childlike in a lot of ways compared to their peers, so.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: But they're also, like, a lot smarter than a lot of their peers.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: They're also more funny fun too.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: They're just. Yeah, they're fun. I mean, me, 33 years old, if they were like, hey, it's Halloween in the office. Everybody needs to wear a costume today. Yeah.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: Heck with some dresses.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Come into the office wearing a costume.
[00:27:33] Speaker A: Like, yes, absolutely.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Of course I'm gonna do that. It's. Why not? There's so, like, few moments in life when you can just do that. That's what's so fun about Halloween is that you can literally just dress up as, like, something very fun and it's fine.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: It's so fun, though. Like, when do you get to step into your favorite character's shoes or, like, something really gross or weird or bizarre or sexy or whatever you wanna do? It's just. It's a time to be creative and.
Yeah, all right. But in the hallway, Dustin and Lucas watch Max skateboard by. And they're like, we're gonna do this. At this point, we, like, don't fully know what they're planning on, but, like, we get the vibe that, like, they want to hang out with her more. So Lucas doesn't want to do it. While they look like morons, I get the sense that Lucas is a lot more self aware than Dustin in the sense that, like, he.
He recognizes. She's not dressed up. I'm dressed up. It might be a little weird approaching her like this. This versus Dustin's like, I don't care, like, if she sees me like this. And she doesn't literally, like, she.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Of course she likes Ghostbusters.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Or so. Yeah. Like, I just feel like Dustin is just like, what do you like? What do you mean? We are cool.
So why would she not want to hang out with us?
And I love the confidence.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: I. Well, I love the confidence, but I also love the distinction between the two boys. We have Lucas, who's a little bit more like, aware of maybe her perception of things versus Dustin's over there going, I'm gonna be me no matter what. And if people don't like that, like, I don't understand why. What? Why wouldn't you love this?
[00:29:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's so cute.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: So they go back and forth to psych themselves up, but then she finishes up at her locker, takes off, and they're like, we'll ask her after class. So then at the buyers, Joyce has called Hopper over to look at the picture that Will drew, and she notes that it's an exact match for the outside skyline in front of their house. At the dining room, Joyce doesn't understand why Will would lie to her. Hopper says he's a kid and says what Will is experiencing isn't nightmares, but flashbacks. Joyce suggests taking Will to more doctors Hoppers like they're all quacks and that he thinks doctor Owns is right. They just need to get through the next few weeks and that nothing is going to go back the way it was. But it will get better in time, which is basically just the theme of this episode. And then he shares a cigarette with her. They reminisce about sharing cigarettes under the steps. Steps between fifth and sixth period and being caught up by a teacher. Joyce laughs and then remembers everything that's going on and says, God, I just want this to be over. Okay, Is it just me, or is Hopper given some I like you vibes? Because.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, he's given her the eyes.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: I saw that, and I was like, that's new. I didn't feel like bonding, but I don't think Joyce thinks of him that way. Like, she's got Bob, but I feel like Hopper.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: I feel like it's more complicated than that. I. I feel like they have shared a very unique experience, and she relies on him and trusts him, and I think that.
I mean, she runs to him for everything, and I feel like they have a history. They went to school together. They're, like, reminiscing on their high school days.
I don't. I'm not saying that, like, Joyce is feeling him. I'm just saying that they. They have a bond.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: That's, like, a little. That's kind of special, I think, because of what happened last season and their past. So.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: But I definitely think Hopper was, like, giving her the. The bedroom eyes.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so, too, but I kind of was. Like, I was kind of spotting it in the last episode when he was like, hey, you call me first and stuff, which makes sense, but I also. I don't know, like, he's asking about Bob, he's asking about other stuff, and I don't know, I just kind of felt like last season, Hopper was so, like, mired in his own pain, and then. And then it was all about, like, the mystery and stuff. This season, I feel like we're getting to see a different side of Hopper, who. I won't say he's necessarily well adjusted, but I don't get the sense that he's drowning as much as he was last season.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: You know, I think Hopper. I think Hopper likes taking care of people.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: And I think, like, this, like, he's taking care of Joyce. She's coming to him for help all the time, and I think that makes him feel needed, and I think that gives him, like, a purpose. Just like with Elle.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: And that's why he's so hard on L, too. I think that's what it is also.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: It's like, a thing, because he couldn't take care of his daughter. He couldn't help his daughter, and she died. So now he's. He has this, like, thing with, like, wanting to take care of people, like, for better or worse, you know?
[00:32:19] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. So at the Rift, we see the dude from the first episode suiting up the lab, but instead of burning the vines, he grabs a toolbox and heads inside. We then are with Owens as he watches via the live feed. He calls the guy Cowboy again. Again, that imagery of the frontier and somewhere that needs to be domesticated and colonized. As the man goes to a radio tower that they've set up inside the Upside down, he puts in a new battery that had been fried. And we cut to footage of Will when he was talking about a storm. Owens is watching, and you can tell he's, like, suspect, expecting that Will Storm wasn't just a nightmare. And this whole scene, apparently, is a callback to Paul Reiser, who plays Dr. Owens, his character that he played in Alien.
He's watching and trying to decide whether to do something about an alien depositing an embryo into a victim, and then ends up turning off the monitor so that it can happen, like, kind of betraying everybody. And. And so I think they're trying to hint that he's possibly, like, not a great guy. In this episode, you don't say Leia's like, and the wall is white, the curtains are blue.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Oh, rice is white.
Peanut butter and jam go together.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Exactly.
So at the library, Nancy and Steve are studying. Nancy's distracted. She gets up to sharpen a pencil. Then she sees a girl that looks like Barb. And then we have flashbacks of the last conversation that she had with her. You know, this isn't you. Other statements running through her head. Steve asks her what's going on. And then in A private study room. Nancy tells Steve that she can't keep pretending that everything is okay. She says it's like everyone has forgot about Barb except her parents, but now they're selling their house and it could destroy them. Steve's like, there's nothing we can do. But Nancy suggests telling them what happened. And Steve gets all nervous, shuts the blinds, and is like, we can't do that because they could put us in jail or destroy their families. They can do anything they want. And then he sees how upset this makes. Nancy rubs her shoulder, tells her it'll be okay, says he knows it's hard, but let's just go to Tina's stupid party where our stupid costumes that we've been working on for a stupid amount of time and just pretend like we're stupid teenagers. Just for tonight, can we just do that? And she agrees. They hug.
The music that plays right here is the music this isn't you. Which played when Barb was talking to Nancy for the last time at the end of. Or last season, and then also played at the end of season one when Steve and Nancy. Well, I guess Nancy gives Jonathan the camera and everything, so a little call back there. But. But this also, like, Steve saying, hey, let's just forget about it for one night and stuff. Sounds very similar to what he was trying to do in one of the episodes of season one where Nancy and Jonathan were gonna go take after the monster, and Nancy has the bat and is swinging it around, and. And Steve's like, hey, let's go see the movies. Like, let's just forget about it all for one night. She's like, I can't. It's like a repeat of patterns here.
But, I mean, I think it. I just think these characters want two different things. I don't think either one of them is in the wrong. Honestly.
[00:35:19] Speaker B: No, I don't. I don't think so. I can, like, I can definitely see where Steve is coming from. Like, he's thinking of it from more of, like, the logical sense of, we know this thing. We can't tell anybody else because then our lives will be in danger, and we don't want that. But I think he, like, he's missing the part where this is very emotional for Nancy because she's lost her friend, and there's definitely a disconnect between them. I mean, there's always been a disconnect between these two, like, always. And it's just getting bigger and bigger.
But, yeah, I don't think, like, either one of them is wrong. Per se, you know?
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I just. Again, it's like, if this was a normal situation, it's like there's really nothing you can do. But because there's a supernatural element, we're like, well, is there something you can do to, like. I mean, Barb can't come back, but,
[00:36:11] Speaker B: like, yeah, I mean, what would you do? Would you tell Barb's parents? Like, how do you even explain that if you tell? But if. If you go up to Barb's parents and you're like, hey, I know for a fact that your daughter is dead, they're gonna have questions, and it's like, how do you explain that to them?
How do you say that to them without having to explain everything else? But then once you explain everything else, you're implicating them and putting their lives in danger now.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: Exactly.
So it's like, right?
[00:36:38] Speaker B: You can't really tell them.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Nancy's not wrong for going, this isn't right. I want to do something about it.
But Steve also isn't wrong for being like, it's out of our control and we're going to be putting other people in danger. So, yeah, it's just. It's. It's a messy situation. But we can tell that, like, Steve's okay with just letting it lie and Nancy's not. Which is very similar to last season. Just, we didn't really get to see this dynamic a whole lot because Steve wasn't aware of anything at that point. He was very outside of the storyline.
So back at school, school's out, and Lucas and Dustin approach Max at her locker, introduce themselves, and she's like, yeah, I know the stalkers. They stammer and are like, we aren't stalkers. We're just concerned for your safety. There are so many bullies out there. And they're like, we wanted you to, like, come with us trick or treating because you don't know anyone. But then, you know, again, bullies. We wanted to, you know, invite you to go with us. And Dustin gets all excited when she asks about his costume and is like, let me show you my ghost trap. And we could see Lucas over there, his face slowly falling as he realizes that she's just pretending like she's being sarcastic this entire time and making fun of them. Dustin is all. And he's like, this girl loves my costume. She loves Ghostbusters. Because in his mind, again, how could you not love the things that I love? They're so cool. So he keeps going on and on. Max is just Placating him by asking questions. Dustin just keeps going. And then Max ends up ignoring him and walking off. And Dustin is confused by Lucas. Being embarrassed. And Dustin chases after him, is like, what? What?
So I want to talk about Sadie Sink for a minute. So Max is played by Sadie Sink, who is a humongous actress. At this point, I feel like everyone is going after this summer, everyone will know who she is.
I think those of us who have watched Stranger Things and the Whale, we kind of know that she's going to be really big. But I think after, like, Spider Man's coming out and a few other things, like, she's. She's going to be the next big star.
But there's funny quote in World's Turned Upside down book where she talks about how she hates horror movies and she didn't recognize the Halloween Michael Myers mask that she had to wear for her costume because of it and refused to watch the. The movie because she's like, no. She's like, I'm too scared. She goes, the only reason that I will watch our show Stranger Things is she goes, I already know what's going to happen, but even then, I will, like, kind of grimace a little bit and close my eyes when I'm watching it.
She was intrigued by the character's pluck and excited by the chance to work with Gaten and Caleb, both of whom she knew from the time she'd spen performing on Broadway in the 2012 revival of the hit musical Annie. Sink, then 11, alternately played the title role and the orphan Duffy. Sharing the parts with actress Taylor Richardson, she was pleased to discover she enjoyed an instant kinship with the boys. She says, that was one of the best auditions I've ever had. Then to find out that I got it the very next day, that was even better. Netflix executive Carolina Garcia says there was just this ease with Sadie and the rest of the kids. She kind of walked right in and fit in with everybody. And so to us, that just felt very organic and very natural. And it paid off as soon as she was cast. Sadie, who had never set foot on a skateboard in her life, had to learn quickly in order to look like a pro. By the time she left her home in New York or New Jersey to begin working on Stranger Things in Atlanta, I didn't look this up, but I remember an interview where I think she said that she, like, lied about knowing how to ride a skateboard in order to get the part, and then, you know, got the part. And then they were like, okay, you don't know how to. How to ride a skateboard. She says, they sent me a skateboard. They sent me helmet, shoulder pads, elbow pads, knee pads, and all this material. Then they set up an instructor and they told me to start practicing skateboarding because that was really important. It was a process. I felt. I think it was my first lesson. I was so frustrated. I was like, I'm never going to get this. It's going to be a disaster. It was pretty hard in the beginning, but I had some really great instructors. It all worked out in the end.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Nice. Fake it till you make it.
[00:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, if it's something. If it's a skill that you know that you can learn after the fact, then, I mean, should that really factor into you getting the part or not? You know?
[00:40:37] Speaker B: But they don't need to know the details.
[00:40:39] Speaker A: They don't.
The hilarious part is she talked about how they had to put tanner on her because she's supposed to be from LA and a skateboarder, so she's supposed to look a little bit more bronzed. And she says it made sense that she'd have a bit of a tan, which is a little unrealistic for me personally, because I don't tan. I burn. I've never seen myself with tan skin. I thought it was funny. The first time my mom saw me, she was like, wow. And I was cracking up because every time I watch this season, I laugh so hard because as a redhead from la, we don't do well with any sort of fake tan. We just look dirty.
[00:41:13] Speaker B: I didn't even notice dirty.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Ye.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna have to look like. Look more closely. Next time I watch an episode, she's
[00:41:20] Speaker A: wearing fake tan and you can just tell, like, her face. It's so funny. But yeah.
So at Hopper's cabin, Elle's watching tv, settles on a soap opera until she hears something outside. She sees a squirrel in the bird feeder. And then we get another flashback to when she's in the woods having to kill squirrels to eat. We see that her hair has grown out a bit, so she's been there for a while. She cooks the squirrel over a fire, which draws the attention of a hunter with a gun who approaches her asking questions. I think this is the same hu that Murray was talking about in the last episode.
Elle uses the burning carcass of the squirrel to knock the man unconscious before taking his hat and coat for herself and then running off.
So at the station, Hot pulls in, sees a truck full of gross fly infested pumpkins in the back. Inside, it's the other farmer who says that Meryl is the one who poisoned his pumpkins and that he has an alibi. The deputies are watching, like, this is the most exciting thing that has happened to us all year. It's a pumpkin conspiracy. The farmer says, like, I didn't see Meryl do this, but he's like, I know he did it because it's not cold enough for to have killed the pumpkins. And Meryl has hit several other pumpkin farmers as well, with all their crops being dead. This gets Hopper's attention. He pulls out a notebook and asks for names. Back at the school, Max is skateboarding to Billy's car. This is the first real dynamic we've seen with Billy. We saw bits of him, but this is like, yeah, and it's interesting. So he's like, you're late again. If you're late again, you're skateboarding home. Then we see his car just racing through the neighborhood, and he's complaining about. About how horrible the town is. Max is like, it's not actually that bad. And it's interesting to see Max's dynamic with Billy. It's very different from how she acts around the other kids and with the boys.
Like, she's still very guarded, but there's almost.
I don't know what the right word is, because she's still very defensive.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: She's very alpha around the other kids.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: And around Billy, she's like, a little. She's. She, like rich treats almost. She's very, like.
Like, not shy. She's passive.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. But I thought it was interesting to see her say that, like, the school was okay and it was all right. And I was like, oh. Like, are the boys actually, like, getting to you? Do you like,
[00:43:29] Speaker B: she did, like, Dustin's charisma.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: She wanted his costume.
Yeah, but Billy and. And then we see why. Because then Billy just. Just, like, immediately jumps on the one phrase that she says, and it was like, oh, so you like it here? Why are you defending it? Max's like, no, it's just that we're stuck here, so, you know, Matt. And then Billy's like, you're right. We're stuck here. And then he turns a lethal look at her and says, and whose fault is that? She mumbles, yours, his ass. He's creepy. And then he's like, did you say, it's my fault? She doesn't answer. And then he screams in her face. Face speeds up super fast, beating his hands on the steering wheel. Max is panicking because she sees that they're coming up on Dustin, Lucas and Mike riding their bikes home, and she begs Billy to stop. And he's like, oh, are these your new friends? And she's like, no. And then he's like, oh, well, you won't care if I hit them. Bonus points if I get them all in one go. The boys see the car, they start panicking, they veer off the road, and the script says that he missed them by, like, inches. And then he cheers, and the boys are like, it's Mad Max. And Sadie Sink does such a wonderful job of conveying so much with her voice and body language in this moment. You can tell she likes the boys and wants to be friends. Possibly. But now we get, like, why she's so hesitant. Yeah. Because this guy will literally kill them.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, what a psycho. Like, who is this guy? Why is he like this?
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Literally.
Yeah. Okay, so Dacre Montgomery plays Billy and is an Australian actor best known for playing Billy Hargrove in Stranger Things, but also Jason Scott, the Red Ranger and Power Rangers.
He's appeared in films like Better Watch out, the Broken Hearts, Gallery, Went up the Hill, Gus Van Santz, Dead Man's Wire, a lot of more independent films. I think.
Matt Duffer says, initially we wanted Steve to be the classic human villain who's so common in Stephen King's books. It's kind of King. It's kind of a King trope that he has these human bullies that are bad or as bad or worse than the supernatural villains. Once we cast Joe, it became clear that that wasn't going to be Steve. He was than we had originally intended Steve to be. So we wanted a really nasty human antagonist who's also hopefully, like all great villains, wildly charismatic, the kind of villain you love to hate. So I'm very curious as we get through the rest of the show, I have a theory about characters like Billy and others who show up.
I think the Duffers had a few things they wanted to do with Steve. They weren't able to do it, so they gave gave those character arcs and even some of some of the plot points to these other male characters because they knew they couldn't do that with Steve. And so I think there's a lot of what they want to do with Steve. In Billy and then in other subsequent seasons and stuff, which I'm really excited to talk about.
In Worlds Turned Upside down, they say to play Billy, the Duffers cast Australian actor Dacre Montgomery on the strength of a now infamous audition tape that Involved a Duran Duran soundtrack and a G string. I don't know if you've ever seen it. You can Google it, and it's like, I have it. Yep.
[00:46:36] Speaker B: But I will.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Montgomery says about this infamous audition tape. I felt like I needed to stand out from the rest, I suppose, but I always kind of do that with my audition tapes. When I find something that I'm really passionate about, I make them into a little bit more of a short film and make pretty bold choices.
And again, it's. I. You don't. I haven't seen the portion with the G string, but you can see his other choices that he makes, and he literally has made it into, like, this whole film. He does a.
A monologue from. I think it's the Shining. I think it's Jack Nicholson's monologue from the Shining.
Executive producer Sean Levy says the tape caught everyone off guard, and they knew immediately that they had found the right actor for the role. Levy says, this guy's crazy.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: He's higher.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: His charisma was astonishing. His instincts for Billy's quiet menace was so compelling. Montgomery says, I try to hone in on what characteristics people who are considered bullies in school might put possess. He has tons of insecurities, and he's letting out those insecurities on his sister and his sister's friends. He says he channeled a lot of, like, being bullied in school into his own Persona of Billy Quiet menace.
[00:47:47] Speaker B: He. There's literally nothing quiet.
[00:47:50] Speaker A: It's pretty loud.
[00:47:52] Speaker B: His entire aura is loud.
[00:47:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:56] Speaker A: Literally, like, everything about him, he, like, rolls up. It's like Rocky, like a hurricane playing. We're like, oh, yeah, this isn't quiet. What in.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: I. I want you to know that he's there.
[00:48:07] Speaker A: I do know what they're saying in the sense that there are moments where you can see Dacre playing it very quietly, and there is a subtlety to it, but I don't. Maybe we just haven't seen enough of him, because this whole episode is him just being, like, out there.
[00:48:20] Speaker B: Him at the party.
[00:48:21] Speaker A: I'm like, that was hilarious. I don't know how the girls weren't just laughing at him. I'd laugh in his face. I'd be like, you're clearly compensating for something there, William.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: I would be like, are you okay?
[00:48:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Literally, you. Is everything okay? At home, Costume designer Kim Wilcox selected all the hallmarks of a 1984 tough guy fashion for Billy's look, topped off with a mullet wig. The hair in the costume as with any role help you feel like the character Montgomery says, there's a little bit of myself in there. I kind of wear my collar popped up and a few buttons undone. I had a few big nights out in the leather jacket he wears, but the mullet made him feel completely different from me. And the earring. Okay, don't throw things at me. But I only find Dacre Montgomery attractive with the mullet.
[00:49:03] Speaker B: I mean, he's an attractive man. I'm just saying the personality.
[00:49:07] Speaker A: No, yeah.
Taking the personality aside. But I. Horrific. I think mullets are gross. I typically don't like mullets, but he's literally the only person I've ever seen that looks good with a mullet and actually looks better with a mullet than without.
Like, I don't know if you've ever.
[00:49:24] Speaker B: He looks really young. He looks like a small man.
[00:49:28] Speaker A: He looks younger without the mullet.
[00:49:31] Speaker B: Without the mullet, he looks like a young boy. Like.
[00:49:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, he does.
But with the mullet, like, he looks older and has more man energy. I don't know what it is, but, like, every time I see him, I'm like, oh, it. Maybe it makes his head smaller or something. I don't know. But.
And I've literally never said that about anyone. And I even showed his picture to my husband and. Because Andrew hates mullets, too. And even Andrew agreed. And we were like, yeah, he's just.
Damn, he's more attractive. But anyway, whatever. He's still a crap person.
He describes not meeting the Duffers until. And when I say that, because there's a huge subset of the fandom that really, really likes Billy.
Leia's getting war flashbacks.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Are you sure you want to go there?
[00:50:14] Speaker A: I'm going to go there. Listen, guys.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:50:17] Speaker A: I can think someone is attractive and still recognize that they are a horrible person. Horrible character.
Horrible character. Because I'm sure Dacre Montgomery is lovely. He seems like a lovely guy. But the character of Billy is attractive but is a horrible person. And that doesn't mean we justify what they do.
And that doesn't mean that we say that. Oh, they're. They just. They're. They're just misunderstood. And I don't care. Maybe we find out more about somebody to love him. Good grief.
[00:50:47] Speaker B: Please. He just wants to be loved.
I'm gonna throw up anyway.
[00:50:54] Speaker A: But we are. We are not gonna do that on this podcast. I just wanna. Just want to be clear about that.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: These are. The thing about this. This show, too, is like, these are. I feel like this. These characters Mother. Like, they're all so young.
[00:51:06] Speaker A: They're little.
[00:51:07] Speaker B: And I'm just like, why are you acting like this?
Like, what's wrong with you?
[00:51:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, seriously. Clearly something is wrong, as I'm sure we'll find out.
[00:51:18] Speaker B: But, yeah, I'm sure he has trauma, childhood trauma.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. There's something trying to make him there. A gray area and, you know, all that stuff.
[00:51:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Can't get me. Duffers.
[00:51:30] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: All right, so he describes the last quote, and I thought this was very sweet. So Dacre describes meeting the Duffers and says that he didn't meet them until he got onto set, which is crazy that the Duffers just looked at his audition tape and then probably had a couple phone calls on over the phone. But then we're like, okay, yeah, good enough for us. He says he was really nervous, but that he had a really good rapport with Sadie Sink, saying, all I wanted to do was to make her feel safe because she is younger than I am and she didn't know me from a bar of soap before we started shooting. And I thought that was really sweet.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: He's like, that's so nice because he's so aggressive. Yeah, he's so aggressive toward her on screen.
So it's nice that he took the time to, like, you know, be softer and.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: Form a bond with her off screen, you know?
[00:52:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Make sure she makes. Knows that. Yeah, he's a safe person.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: That's so funny, because I feel like David Boreanaz has said the same thing about, you know, like, when he turned. When angel turned into Angelus on Buffy. And, like, he had been the love interest prior, and, like, him and Sarah Michelle Geller have, like, amazing chemistry, and, like, we're really great friends. And then he had to start acting like a villain toward Buffy.
And he said that he always made it a point to, like, give her a hug after and, you know, make sure that they were all good. And, like, it's. That's, like. I feel like that's, like, so great because if your co star is uncomfortable, they're not gonna do a good job doing their. Like, they're not. You know what I mean? So I also think it's just really important.
[00:53:00] Speaker A: It's professional, but I think it's also really important because as women, we're. We're always aware of the fact that we are generally not as strong as men. We are at a biological disadvantage.
And so I think that when men are aware of that, like, I see Tiktoks and Videos of men who are, like, walking down a street and they realize there's a girl walking. It's like night. There's a girl that's walking ahead of them. They're always very, like, aware of, like, okay, slow down. Maybe sit down. Maybe don't follow her so closely, like, understanding what's not even.
[00:53:32] Speaker B: I don't even think it's the fact that like. Like we're aware that we're weaker. I think it's the fact that, like, we're aware of what men are capable of.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: That is also. That is very true.
[00:53:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, we know that. That they will do stuff because they think they can.
[00:53:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well, they can because they have. Yeah. The privilege and the power in a lot of ways, more than just physically, but in, you know, society, with everything else. Yeah, absolutely. That's a good point. But like, there, I think anytime that there's a man that is aware of their position in society around women, and then they have to act out a scene where they have to be the aggressor and stuff. I think learning that these Mal co stars really take the time to make their female co stars feel comfortable and safe and stuff.
[00:54:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:22] Speaker A: Is wonderful. And I think that that says a lot about these men. I mean, I think I. You look at stories about Jack Nicholson on the Shining and other things like. Like Stanley. Stanley.
Yes. Where this woman is literally, she has no power in any situation. Her name.
[00:54:35] Speaker B: Duvall.
[00:54:36] Speaker A: Shelley Duvall. Yeah.
I mean, and that's just one case out of so many others. And I. So I think that, like, when a man tries really hard to make sure that his co star is feeling safe, I think that kudos to him. But, yeah, anyway, it just like, encourages
[00:54:51] Speaker B: everybody to do the best job that they can, like when you're comfortable, especially as an actor. And I feel like you and I were talking about this the other day about how it was like that Kristen Stewart quote where she was talking about how being an actor is, like, very submissive.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:08] Speaker B: And you have to be really vulnerable and open to, like, doing things that make you uncomfortable. And I feel like if you're working in an environment where you're uncomfortable already by the environment, you're not going to be great at being submissive and being vulnerable to, like, I don't know, like, becoming this other person, you know, and then you're just not going to be a great actor.
[00:55:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: So at the Farm, Hopper's checking out Mary Meryl's stuff. Asks how far the Rock goes. He sees that it's not Just the pumpkins, but it's trees that are affected with rot that is slimy and black.
He ends up radiant radio overing to the deputies who are at another farm. And then they're like, it smells like a nursing home.
He tells them to track how far the rock goes. And Pal's like, oh, it's gonna take all day. And Hopper's like, so take it. Oh, and don't touch any of this stuff without gloves. And as we see Powell look over and Callahan is sniffing the rot off his bare fingers. And he's like, okay, sure thing, Chief. Hop gets a bunch of marking flags and marks the trail of the rock into the woods. And we're like, yep, this is going to take all day. So then back at the Byers, Bob is teaching Jonathan how to use the video camera. As Joyce suits up Will for trick or treating, she tells him to stay by Jonathan. Bob, dressed as Dracula, says goodbye, and he's like, I hope it doesn't suck.
[00:56:23] Speaker B: He's so cute.
[00:56:25] Speaker A: Interesting fact. So Bob's camcorder is the same model used by Marty McFly in Back to the Future, which is really, really fun, but it would have gone for about a thousand dollars in the 80s. And he's just letting Jonathan and Will take it out, which I'm like, that man is Mary Joyce right there.
[00:56:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Speaker A: So in the car, Jonathan's talking about how he doesn't know what his mom sees in Bob. Will's like, well, at least he treats me normally. And then talks about how Joyce doesn't treat. Trust him to go trick or treating. He's like, it's not like Nancy's going trick or treating with Mike. And. And of course, this hits Jonathan in a sore spot because he's over there like, yeah, I have to go and babysit my brother. And I like how Jonathan obviously cares about Will and wants him to be able to go and have fun and be independent and stuff. But I think there's also a part of Jonathan's like, I need to go out and have my own life, too. And I can't keep doing that while I'm babysitting Will.
So he drops Will off and is like, hey, meet at 9. Have fun. Don't let any of your friends hold the camera. It's really expensive. And then we see him pull out the pamphlet for the party.
And then at Tina's party, this was a really interesting shot. It's a oner from the moment we see the keg stand all the way to the moment where Nancy walks back into the crowd is one long shot, which must have taken them forever because that's a lot of extras to coordinate. Yeah.
Billy's doing his keg stand, being hyped up by Tommy. It's Tom, of course.
[00:57:54] Speaker B: I'm so. I'm so shocked. Oh, my God.
Tommy. The guy who can't form a single original thought. Wow.
[00:58:03] Speaker A: He's a parasite. He just latches on to the biggest host. That's all it is. The loudest host, I should say, actually.
[00:58:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:11] Speaker A: So I didn't think Billy was dressed up in a costume, but apparently he's supposed to be dressed up as the Terminator.
[00:58:16] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:58:17] Speaker A: I think he's too cool for costumes. But anyway. Yeah, place is packed. Billy goes inside celebrating his keg, stands, sees Steve, walks right up to him.
[00:58:25] Speaker B: He just stares him down.
[00:58:29] Speaker A: Tommy, gotta do Ken King Harrington. And then Steve just whips off his glasses. And then him and Billy just stare at each other. And Nancy's like, the way he just,
[00:58:39] Speaker B: like, stood in front of him. I was like, where is he going? And then he just stood in front of Steve and just stared at him.
[00:58:46] Speaker A: He's just. He's such a. Like a beta. Like, it's giving beta energy. Like he thinks he's an alpha, but
[00:58:53] Speaker B: I'm over here going, it's giving Chihuahua.
[00:58:56] Speaker A: It's giving Chihuahua.
[00:58:58] Speaker B: Yes. Giving Chihuahua.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: He's like, yeah, a little ankle biter. Yeah.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: Just loud. Just loud and annoying.
[00:59:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
Okay, so I don't know if you've ever seen Risky Business, but it is.
It's a movie that stars Tom Cruise and Rebecca De Mornay and Steven Mansion.
[00:59:20] Speaker B: I don't see. And I don't watch movies that he's in.
[00:59:23] Speaker A: You just don't watch movies in general.
[00:59:26] Speaker B: I don't like Tom Cruise at all.
[00:59:28] Speaker A: I don't either, actually. Leia. I. I don't like.
[00:59:31] Speaker B: He gives me the heebie jeebies.
Yeah.
[00:59:34] Speaker A: There's a couple of his movies that I'll watch, but as a general rule, if I hate the only movie of
[00:59:38] Speaker B: his that I like, his Interview with the Vampire, I. I think that's the only movie that he's good in, period.
[00:59:43] Speaker A: He's good in movies that are not action movies. I feel like he puts on a Tom Cruise Persona just for action movies, but for all his. Like, a lot of his earlier films are really good, where he allows himself to, like, maybe be the villain or something.
[00:59:55] Speaker B: Like, yeah, he's great in Interview with
[00:59:58] Speaker A: a Vampire, which is so funny because a lot of people's gripe is that he was Miscast. It shouldn't have been him. And I think he was fantastic.
[01:00:04] Speaker B: I think he was great.
[01:00:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. But anyway, Steve and Nancy are dressed up as Tom Cruise and the. I don't know the actresses or the. The name of the woman in the movie, because I haven't seen it. But the script gives more. Yeah, I'm not.
Okay. You haven't seen Tangled. All right. That's a. That's a staple.
[01:00:25] Speaker B: I'm an adult.
[01:00:27] Speaker A: I saw it when I was an adult and had. And childless. It's fantastic.
[01:00:31] Speaker B: You had kids.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: I did not. Tangled came out when we were in. Well, I was in college. You were still in high school, probably. But it's good. It's a good one. You'll have to watch the live action when it comes out anyway.
But I think that's really cute because we had that conversation between Steve and Nancy last season where he was talking about how they should go see the movie in theaters, and Nancy says no. And he's like, yeah, well, you know, what's her name?
Was it Connie? Was Tommy's girlfriend's name. Name?
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Who knows?
[01:01:04] Speaker A: Carol. He's like, carol. I actually look like him. And then he starts singing his song and everything. And then Nancy has Tom Cruise poster on her bedroom wall. So I like how he went as, you know, Tom Cruise, essentially. It's very cute. But that's why he's wearing the sunglasses and everything and dancing like a complete dork.
Anyway, all right.
At the buyer's house, Dracula and Joyce are having their own fun as Bob turns on music and pulls Joyce up to slow dance with him. I love the little nods to Dracula that Winona Ryder was in. She's all stressed. They're listening to, of course, Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton, because we know Bob loves Kenny Rogers. He tells her that Will is fine. And then Bob's like, hey, maybe we should move out on Hawkins. And then when she doesn't say anything, he's like, oh, sorry, like, I'm talking crazy. And he's like, you know, my family has this house up in Maine and everything. And Joyce is like, no, like this. That sounds really nice, but this is not a normal family. And Bob's like, but it could be. And it's so, so endearing, like he's such a pure man.
[01:02:04] Speaker B: He is.
[01:02:06] Speaker A: So then the doorbell rings, and Bob's like, yes. Finally, he puts in his vampire teeth and goes, victims.
[01:02:14] Speaker B: I love him.
[01:02:15] Speaker A: The essay owed to Gen X says Bob represents the normal, functional savior who will deliver Joyce and her family from their dysfunction by bringing them nearer to the nuclear ideal. Indeed, Bob is about as normal or steady as a kid character as one could write. Eventually, Bob suggests moving the family to Maine where he can provide for them and give them a new life providing patriarchal salvation. And it's this whole idea, like, we know that Joyce and her family are non normative and their. Their family is very different from the general nuclear family. And so it's very sweet that Bob is essentially like, hey, like, it might be better for you guys to get out of here. It might be better to have a normal life and all that stuff. And it's just interesting because I wonder, we don't really know what Joyce wants. Like, I wonder, does Joyce want a normal life and a normal family? But I don't know if she ever even has the option to think about it because she's so concerned with just making ends meet or just trying to keep Will alive and not in peril. So then we see the four boys trick or treating. The old people think they're exterminators.
They debate the best candies and complain about having another three Musketeers, which Dustin loves. They're carrying their pillowcases of candy. They get jump scared by Max in a Friday that 13th mask. The boys are traumatized, and Max is like, completely different than we've seen her ever before. She's super giddy, probably high on candy. She tells them that they should head to the rich people's neighborhoods. And Dustin and Lucas are like, yeah, but Mike is like, bummed. And I'm like, mike, what is wrong with you?
[01:03:44] Speaker B: It's like when l joined the group and Lucas was against it.
[01:03:48] Speaker A: Yep, it really does feel like that. Come on, guys, let. Let the girls join in and calm down.
[01:03:54] Speaker B: You need some girl energy in your group.
[01:03:56] Speaker A: Literally. The duffer said that the Sadie Sink was actually really scary. They said she was waiting for the boys while we were shooting, hiding behind a bush, just like Michael Myers does. She was absolutely terrifying. We had a lot of fun shooting that sequence. And then they said that for all the video camera stuff, like the footage we see Will taking of Mike and other stuff like that, they actually had the kids run around with video cameras and film footage that they ended up splicing into the show, which is really fun.
[01:04:24] Speaker B: Awesome. Yeah, that is fun.
[01:04:26] Speaker A: So it's dark now. Hopper's still putting up the flags. He hears another noise that we've heard, like the past couple of episodes, so we don't know what it is exactly, and then gets a jump Scare as one of the kids at the house shoots one of the toy guns with those, like, poppers in them. The kids like, you're dead. And he's like, yeah. Is his heart like Reese's? Yeah, you got me, kid. Happy Halloween. And then he realizes that it's Halloween that he promised Elle. He ends up bartering with the kid and, like, gives him money for his candy and then takes off. Elle's by herself in the cabin, hugging her teddy bear. The Morse code machine starts beeping. Hopper is, like, serious. He's like, no phones, only Morse code.
[01:05:07] Speaker B: Okay?
[01:05:09] Speaker A: She spells out the word late size. And then we see a cold and miserable L in a flashback, wandering through the snow until she comes across the. The box we saw Hopper placing in the.
The food in last season with the Tupperware and the Eggos. And then back in the present, Elle has a very determined looking face.
And then we're back with the kids and Max, or I guess the boys and Max out trick or treating. They're like, rich people are suckers, and they're having a great time talking. They keep saying the word tubular. They're like, tubular.
[01:05:39] Speaker B: Tubular.
[01:05:42] Speaker A: That's so cute.
We cut to video footage of Mike from Will's perspective. Mike. Mike asks Will if he okayed having Max there, and Will says he did. It was just for the night. But Mike says he should have checked with him first, that she's rooting the best night of the year.
No, your crappy attitude is ruining the best night of the year, Mike.
[01:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah, seriously.
If it was Elle, he would be like, oh, guys, be more accepting.
[01:06:05] Speaker A: He literally would. Finn had a really hard time playing Mike this season because he said he was such a downer. He says there was less to play with. He's like, well, I guess that's what's great about the characters. They're ever evolving. I was like,
[01:06:18] Speaker B: but it was just
[01:06:19] Speaker A: really hard to, like, to tap into those emotions because he was such a bummer.
[01:06:23] Speaker B: Debbie Downer.
[01:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah, Literally miserable Mike is what we're gonna start calling him.
So then he takes off, and Will tries to follow a couple older kids and masks accost him, calling him zombie boy and freak. Will falls, dropping the camera, and suddenly he's back in the Upside Down. He starts calling for Mike. Everyone's calling for Mike in the Upside Down. Everyone goes. The Upside down is like, Mike. I'm like, listen, I get the Upside Down. I'm to be like, I'm going to be like Joyce Jim Hopper. I'm like, literally, Yeah, I ain't Calling for Mike. What's Mike going to do?
But then he sees the giant spider made out of clouds appear out of the sky, heading towards him. He ends up running and hiding down an alley, and we see the smoke coming down the stairs towards him. But then Mike snaps him out of it, asking if he's okay and saying that he couldn't find him. Every time that he's been snapped out of it, it's been Micah. I've noticed. It's very interesting.
So Will is terrified. Dustin, Lucas join. And Mike says that he's going to take Will home. He's kind of snappy with the boys, doesn't let anyone else go. And he's like, I'm bored anyway. And I'm like, okay, okay. Dustin and Lucas are taking it back, and Max is like, what's wrong with him? And I'm like, do you mean Mike or do you mean Will?
So then at the teen party, Jonathan pulls up in time to see toga guy that we saw earlier with Nancy barfing on the lawn. Inside, a goth girl compliments Jonathan's costume and he's like, thanks. I'm going as a guy who hates costumes.
[01:07:49] Speaker B: Wow, he's so cool.
[01:07:53] Speaker A: Never heard that one before. I still think Oz dressing up as God with the little name tag is like the best thing ever.
So he looks around, sees Nancy and Steve dancing. Steve looking like such a dork with his goofy smile and sunglasses on inside. At night, Nancy goes back for more drink. And then Steve tries to stop her. She says, screw you, and then they end up spilling the drink all over her. When Steve tries to take it from her, she races to the bathroom. And then he's trying to apologize, saying he just wants to take her home. She's in tears and says she that he wanted this. And he says, no, he didn't want this. And she says that he's. That he's pretending that everything is okay like they didn't kill Barb, like it's great. Like they're in love and they're partying. She ends by saying it's. And Steve looks heartbroken and on the verge of tears as he says, like, we're in love. You don't love me. She doesn't answer. She just stares him down, saying it's. And then he just is hurt and takes off. And then Jonathan watches him leave.
Oh, yeah, he's getting messed.
[01:08:51] Speaker B: That was cold. That was cold.
Oh, no.
[01:08:56] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[01:08:57] Speaker B: I mean, do you think Nancy. Nancy meant it or do you think it's like the trauma talking Is it the trauma talking?
[01:09:05] Speaker A: It's just hard to tell. I've never been, like, fully sold on Nancy. Nancy really liking Steve. Like, obviously the beginning of season one, you could tell she was really charmed by him. But then as the season progressed, it was hard to see.
She just seemed so concerned with other things that he was secondary. And so I'm just kind of like.
And then she seems pulled by Jonathan right now. This whole season, she keeps looking often Jonathan's direction, and he seems just a lot more invested in her than she is with him.
So I think that she doesn't actually love him.
[01:09:37] Speaker B: Him.
[01:09:38] Speaker A: And I think she unfortunately can't get past the fact that they slept together while Barb died. But I don't think it's fair of her to be putting that on Steve because ultimately Barb was her friend and she made that choice. It's not Steve's fault.
[01:09:52] Speaker B: So it's no one's fault. I mean.
[01:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. Emma Corgan. Yeah.
[01:09:57] Speaker B: Like, it's no one's fault. But. Yeah, I. I totally agree.
I definitely think she like her being with Steve. Steve is making her more. Feel more guilty about Barb, I think. And I think that's a big reason why she can't, like, feel the way for him that he feels for her. Because I definitely think that he's more into her than she is into him.
[01:10:21] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: Like, 100.
And it's heartbreaking because he. He really is trying so hard.
[01:10:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:10:29] Speaker B: He's not, you know, trying to prevent her from drinking more.
[01:10:32] Speaker A: He's not wrong for saying, hey, let me take you home. It's just. Yeah, I do think it. I don't think he was thinking clearly when he just took off and left. But, like, when she's that inebriated, don't leave her at a party. Like, I do think that was a little, like, not so great on his end, but I think he just wasn't thinking clearly, honestly.
[01:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, these are teenagers, and it's like, emotions are really high and.
[01:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just.
[01:11:00] Speaker B: Oh, poor Nancy, too. Like, Nancy's really going through it. And it's crazy because it's been a year, right. Like, it's coming up on a year. So it's really interesting to see that she's still really, really struggling with this.
[01:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:11:14] Speaker B: I'm excited to see, like, what happens next with that.
[01:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's interesting, the whole, like, word she used that word when Karen confronted her about sleeping with Steve and she. And saying she lied to the officers. And Nancy's like, it's like, that doesn't matter. Barb is missing, so. Using that same word, but, yeah, messy. Messy.
All right, so back at the Wheelers in the basement, surrounded by candy, Will tries explaining how it feels when he goes to the Upside Down. Like, he's stuck. He says there was this noise coming from everywhere and that he saw something. Not the Demogorgon, but this huge shadow in the sky. Only it was alive and it was coming for him. Mike asks if it's real or if it's in his head. Will doesn't know. He just asks Mike not to tell the others that they won't understand. Mike says 11 would understand. She always did. And I was like, when did.
[01:12:03] Speaker B: Why are you making it about her?
[01:12:06] Speaker A: I don't. I don't know that. Like, it's because Eleven was actually aware of the Upside Down. So I guess she. She, like, did understand. But I'd also. Like, this seemed like a weird place for him to insert 11. But I get what they're trying to do. Like, they're trying to show that both Will and Mike are struggling and bonding through their trauma. But I was like, shut up, Mike. This isn't about you. Like, what.
[01:12:27] Speaker B: Why are you making it about you, man? Your friend is literally telling you that he's hallucinating fascinating demons in the sky.
[01:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And he's like, and I don't know what's real and what's not, and I just am. I feel terrified.
[01:12:42] Speaker B: Elle would understand.
[01:12:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I understand. I had a friend that had superpowers,
[01:12:47] Speaker B: too, and Will doesn't even know L. Yeah, that's true. He's never even met her.
[01:12:53] Speaker A: That's so true. He has no clue. He's like, that's really nice. And you can tell Will's just like. Like, oh, this girl again.
Bringing her again like, all summer long. That's all I've heard the past year. Lll.
And then Mike's like, feels like I'm going crazy some. Or Mike says sometimes he feels like he still sees L. And that's where I think the link is. He's like, yeah, I feel like I see L2. Okay. Seeing 11 and seeing a demon who's trying to, like, take over your soul.
What is he saying? Not, like the others.
Like, me too. It's like when you're hanging out with your friend who's really skinny, and you're talking about how you're really hungry and you're like, I just. I just really want a piece of Pizza. But, like, man, it's just so hard. Like, I'm trying to, like, be really careful about what I'm eating. And your skinny friends like, me too. It just is the worst. Trying to, like, oh, my gosh.
[01:13:55] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:13:58] Speaker A: And then Mike's like, well, hey, if we're going crazy, at least we're going crazy together. And Will's like, yeah, except when I get pulled into the Upside Down.
[01:14:04] Speaker B: I'm literally not the same thing, though.
[01:14:06] Speaker A: Like.
[01:14:10] Speaker B: Like, no, you guys are not experiencing the same type of craziness right now.
[01:14:17] Speaker A: No, but. But you know what? Will feel seen, Will feels heard. So we're gonna give it to him.
[01:14:25] Speaker B: I mean, let's remember these are, like 12 year olds. Okay?
He's trying. He's really trying to make his friend feel better.
[01:14:32] Speaker A: He's saying yes.
[01:14:33] Speaker B: Good for you, Mike.
[01:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah, the. The sentiment is really sweet, but it's just funny as an adult looking back and being like, oh, that's not. That's not quite what I think. That's not what he thinks he's doing. But yeah.
Then we have this gorgeous song playing right now Outside the Realm by Big Giant Circles. I don't think we've ever heard anything like it in the show up until now, and I don't know that we ever will hear anything like it. But it's. It's almost like Enya or like, I'm trying to compare it to somebody else, but it's just. It's absolutely beautiful. So then we see Jonathan helping a completely inebriated Nancy out of the car to her house.
I'm assuming he sneaks her in. Where is Karen?
[01:15:12] Speaker B: Maybe they're sleeping already.
[01:15:14] Speaker A: Okay. Will and Mike are downstairs and they hear clomp, clomp, clomp upstairs. He puts her to bed, takes off her boots, tucks her in. She grabs his arm, says Jonathan, then passes out. Jonathan finishes up, then leaves, shutting the door and closing. Or shutting off the light and closing the door. We're like, all very sweet.
[01:15:32] Speaker B: Okay, but can we talk about the fact that he put her in the bed with this shirt that had the
[01:15:37] Speaker A: alcohol all over it? I think we would be judging him if he took the shirt off.
[01:15:42] Speaker B: I know, but. Oh, my God, if I. If that was me, I would have been like, please take the shirt off. Like, close your eyes and remove it. Like, I don't know, to be in here.
[01:15:51] Speaker A: But she's inebriated, so, like, you can't do that. Like, that would have just smells like
[01:15:55] Speaker B: vodka and tropical punch. Punch or something. And it's sticky.
[01:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a sensitivity.
[01:16:03] Speaker B: You wake up and it's like on your skin.
[01:16:04] Speaker A: Skin?
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[01:16:07] Speaker B: Under the sheets.
[01:16:08] Speaker A: So other people's like, spit and drool.
[01:16:10] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:16:11] Speaker A: Like, just dipping their cups into this giant punch bowl. I know.
Backwash and all that stuff. Yeah. Pretty gross. But you know what? I applaud Jonathan for being like, you know, we aren't taking shirts off. We're just gonna lay her in bed. Yeah.
[01:16:25] Speaker B: Very, very nice of him.
[01:16:27] Speaker A: Bare minimum over here.
Billy would never.
Hopper's cabin. Hopper's home with the candy and does the knock on the door, but there's no answer. He cover face is like, kid, open up. All right, I know I'm late. I got candy. I got the good stuff. There's no answer. He bangs on the door and he's begging. Says he's gonna freeze to death. The door opens. He heads in, sees that the TV is in her room with the cord sticking out from under her door.
She just refuses to come out. So he sits on the couch and he's like, all right, well, I'm gonna eat all this candy and get fat. It's very unhealthy. Come stop me.
Could have a heart attack or something. But, you know, you do what you want.
[01:17:04] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:17:08] Speaker A: The production design for the cabin was really interesting. So they actually built the exterior of the cabin from the ground up on a patch of land on Sleepy Hollow Farm in Powder Springs, Georgia. Their thinking was it's a hunting cabin, says production designer Trujillo. It's been in Hopper's family probably since before his grandfather. Or it's a cabin that his grandfather built when he was a young man. We wanted it to feel like it's mostly been sitting there. Maybe Hopper spent some time there as a boy, and it's just slowly has fallen into relative disrepair there. But he just has continued to keep it up for some sentimental reason, and he's been using it to store things. It became this sort of repository for all of his history and his past. The project to build the cabin took roughly six weeks, start to finish. The corresponding interior was constructed on the screen Gems Stage.
They said they built everything on the stage around one massive 18 inch cedar column, says art director Sean Brennan. If you look at the center of that set, there's a cedar column that rises up out of the floor and everything else is tied off of it to allow us to have open, expansive space. Because it was a new build and it's supposed to be an aged cabin, they had to have. I had no clue this was Even a job. Scenic artists come in and age it up. Trujillo says they have all kinds of methods. Sometimes it's as physical as hitting the wood with chains and denting it. They have instruments that look like torture devices that they use to add texture so that it looks like this cabin has been exposed to the elements and has been bumped into and banged against for years. It's a very labor and props process. It. It's its own kind of art form. Taking something brand new and making it look like it's aged naturally over the course of decades. You can rush. Rush age something. And it looks like a haunted house. So they would have to, like, sand things down. They had to look like you were dragging furniture over and bumping things into it, because obviously it can't be brand new. But I thought that was so interesting. I had no clue that that was a thing. It makes sense.
They actually put a lot of little, like, artifacts and stuff in there that tells of Hopper's past and if his daughter.
[01:19:02] Speaker B: Daughter.
[01:19:03] Speaker A: So in a lot of ways, that cabin really reflects him and it, like, at his truest and in his truest.
[01:19:09] Speaker B: Not his truest form, like in his truest form.
[01:19:12] Speaker A: In his truest form. This is Hopper's final form.
Daddy, Final form. Daddy.
[01:19:22] Speaker B: Daddy. Final boss.
[01:19:24] Speaker A: Daddy, Final boss. Literally. No, but, like, they. The whole point of this cabin is it's essentially a place where like. Like he's gonna. He stores lost memories with his daughter and everything. And so they wanted that to be reflected in even the decor and everything, which I really love the thought that went into that. But.
So in her bedroom, we see Elle putting a blindfold on, using the TV static as she enters the mindscape looking for Mike. She sees him in his fort using the walkie talkie, looking for her and asking for a sign. She kneels in front of him, makes eye contact, says Mike. And I thought, oh, Elle is a literal ghost. Maybe that's also why she wanted to dress up, because she feels like a ghost, for she feels like Mike's ghost. Mike, kind of like they have a moment. He, like, stares at her, thinks he sees her, and then he sighs and closes the walkie talkie and walks away, leaving Elle alone and in tears.
The music that plays right here is Castle Byers. It's the same music that played in season one, the Bathtub, when Eleven finds Will in Castle Byers and reassures him that they're coming from for him.
But back in the cabin, Elle just removes the blindfold and sobs, and it's just devastated.
No Let them be together.
[01:20:37] Speaker B: Let them be happy.
[01:20:39] Speaker A: Okay, back from Trick or Treating at the Hendersons and completely high on candy. Dustin's still singing. He's, like, walking tubular. Tubular.
And I wonder if that word has lost all meaning. Meaning now. He hears the noise coming from this trash can again. Calling for Muse. He's startled when the trash can shakes violently. And then he takes his toy Ghostbuster gun and then screams and opens the trash and then freezes, saying, Holy. And then we're kind of. What's in there? We don't know what's in there. This thing is cheesed for, like, two episodes now.
[01:21:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
I wonder what it is.
[01:21:16] Speaker A: Don't know. Hopefully we'll find out.
[01:21:18] Speaker B: Seems like some type of creature of some. Some sort that makes little chittering noises.
[01:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a squirrel. It's an upside down squirrel.
[01:21:26] Speaker B: It's a rabid squirrel.
[01:21:29] Speaker A: Black mold and all of the particles.
[01:21:32] Speaker B: And it's that cop. He's now transformed into a squirrel, and he's hiding in people's garbages.
[01:21:40] Speaker A: Don't sniff mold, kids.
[01:21:42] Speaker B: Don't do it.
[01:21:44] Speaker A: Well, that was a fun episode. And actually, if all goes according to plan, plan Leia, this will be the only episode for season two that it's just you and me.
[01:21:53] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:21:54] Speaker A: Isn't that crazy?
[01:21:55] Speaker B: These are our last time together.
[01:21:56] Speaker A: It's our last time we're seeing other people. We're bringing other people into her, into our relationship.
[01:22:02] Speaker B: We're opening up our marriage.
[01:22:04] Speaker A: It was Steph and Cara last week. Next week is supposed to be Tabby, which I'm very excited about.
[01:22:09] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:22:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:22:11] Speaker B: I feel like I haven't recorded with Tabby in the. Like, forever in years.
[01:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah. The last time we recorded with her was season one of Angel. I think it was, like, Five by Five or Sanctuary.
[01:22:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:22:21] Speaker A: It's gonna be really fun. I'm very excited. Yeah, it's gonna be. We have a really great lineup of guests this season, and we. We actually had. I felt like an unprecedented amount of people requesting to come on as guests, because everybody really loves Stranger Things, and it's usually all the people doing Buffy stuff, and so they're like, please give us a break from Buffy. Let's go talk about strangers. Do things.
[01:22:43] Speaker B: We will save you, children. Come to our realm.
[01:22:48] Speaker A: Come to our podcast.
Come to Stranger Things.
[01:22:51] Speaker B: Come to the Upside Down.
[01:22:54] Speaker A: No sniffing the mole. No touching the slimy trees.
But, yeah, I'm very excited. I'm excited to hear Tabby's thoughts next week. I'm excited to like, get into the meat of the season. I'm like, all right, enough setup. Let's go. I want to figure it out. But, yeah.
All right, guys, let us know your thoughts. What do you guys think about Nancy and Steve's relationship status? What do you think about all of that stuff with the argument and then Max's dynamic? Billy and.
[01:23:24] Speaker B: Yeah, what do we think of Billy?
Yeah, do we think that he can be fixed? Can we fix him?
[01:23:30] Speaker A: Guys, stop triggering me.
It's just. It's something that, like, not to go on a rant. You guys already know. You guys have heard.
[01:23:38] Speaker B: Just do it.
[01:23:40] Speaker A: It's just has really been bothering me a lot in social media and in media in general, like, movies and television shows where, like, men, attractive men who are absolute, are given so much grace just because they're hot, and then they get really popular, and then the writers are like, let's give them a tragic backstory so that we can find some way to redeem them. And I find it's very rare that women are allowed to one be as messy, but are allowed. Allowed to a redemption arc because.
Especially if they're not hot. Like, if they're hot.
[01:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:24:12] Speaker A: You know, maybe, but especially if they're not.
[01:24:14] Speaker B: I mean, we were saying this in our discord the other day. People are always asking, we want more complex female characters. We want more messy female characters. And I'm just like, yeah, but, like, you guys can't even handle Rosenberg.
[01:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:24:28] Speaker B: Because aren't you handle Willow from Buffy?
[01:24:31] Speaker A: What Nancy doing right now is pretty messy, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But, yeah, give me. Give me your defenses of Billy or, you know, commiserate with me, rant with me. Yeah, I will be totally down for either one, but it's just something that. And I. I hope this show handles Billy carefully moving forward. And.
Yeah, it'll be really interesting to discuss it stuff.
[01:24:55] Speaker B: There's just something really nice. I think it's refreshing nowadays that if they have a villain, a character that's supposed to be villainous, and. And they just remain a villain, they
[01:25:04] Speaker A: double down on being a villain. Yes. Yeah.
[01:25:06] Speaker B: Like, I just find that in everything, everyone always has to get a redemption arc, and it's getting a little boring.
[01:25:14] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, it used to be, like, the thing that was new and, like, it was.
[01:25:18] Speaker B: It used to be like, oh, wow, this guy is actually kind of good now, and we're maybe rooting for him a little bit, but now it's like, every single character, you meet them, and they're Supposed to be unlikable and, like, villainous, and they're supposed to be, like, the antagonist. And then, you know, they become a fan favorite because that's. People like villains, because villains are fun. You know, they're fun to watch, but then it's like, then they feel the need to give them redemption, to make them likable in, like, a legitimate way. Like, I don't know why we can't just make them even more evil. Like.
[01:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:25:54] Speaker B: Well, I think let's do villain final boss more.
[01:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I think sometimes, too, there are shows, if we're talking specifically about TV shows or even franchises like the mcu, where it goes on for a long time. I think at a certain point, the writers get bored and are like, we have to do something interesting with these characters, so let's give them dimension and show that they're not all evil and give them a tragic backstory and stuff. And so I. And I understand that to a certain extent, but I also agree with you. It's very rare that they double down and become more evil. And I think I kind of want to see. I. I want. Kind of want to see that now. Like, I. Yeah, I want to. To see. And I think we are seeing a little bit of a turn in what people are wanting now. We want to see our good guys good, and we want to see our bad guys bad. It for a while there was really the thing to have our. Our heroes be a little bit morally gray or watch them slip a little bit and become anti heroes. But I think we're all just kind of, like, tired of.
[01:26:48] Speaker B: I just think it's. It's a bit of a response, like the turning the villain into a good guy. It's, I think, a bit of a response to, like, this moral panic that people, like modern audiences have when they're watching media. Like, I just feel like, like, audiences need their favorite character to be morally righteous or, like, morally good in order to justify liking them.
[01:27:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really.
[01:27:15] Speaker B: And it's like all the discourse that I see. Oh, like, this is not healthy. Oh, this character is very, like, abusive. This character is very healthy. So I like the healthy character. And it's like a character doesn't have to be healthy or a good person to be an interesting character. They just have to, like an interesting character.
[01:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:27:33] Speaker B: Like, you can like an evil character. They don't have to be.
[01:27:37] Speaker A: They're not real.
[01:27:38] Speaker B: They don't have to have a string of goodness in them. You know, like, that's. There's no need for that.
[01:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:27:44] Speaker B: But I feel like, you know, people start screaming, like, character assassination, and, oh, he's acting out of character if he's doing this because they want the thing that they like to be, like, good. I don't know what it is, but it's not just in media. It's like, in everything it goes along with, like, cancel culture. You do one thing wrong, and you get canceled. And it's, like, the smallest thing ever. And I just feel like. I don't know, it's like social media has made it so that everything is looked at under a very, like, giant lens and, like, scrutinized for every little real thing. And I feel like that's happened in the shows that we watch and, like, the. The movies that we watch. And it does affect how writers write things. I feel like.
[01:28:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:28:31] Speaker B: You know, like, everybody needs a redemption arc, because if we don't, then we're gonna.
[01:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it often gets confused, too, with a really, really bad person or a really, really evil villain can do some good things. Things too. They can be really, really good with their family members and someone that they love and treat them kindly and still be awful human beings. And I think sometimes there. People get confused when they see a bad villain doing something kind. I think there sometimes is this confusion of, oh, okay, well, they did something good. There's this inability to be able to hold two things in their hands at once and recognize that a villain doesn't think they're a villain. Most of the time, they don't think that they're a villain. The people around the villain who love the villain oftentimes don't realize that they're a villain for real life, too. And so I think that it just. It. I think media literacy is also a big part of this. And. Yeah, and of course, people. Writers are going to write what they think audiences want, and so that's also going to affect things and. Yeah.
[01:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[01:29:34] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. So moral of the story, we want messy characters, but we want villains who remain villains.
And I.
[01:29:40] Speaker B: Just like, once.
[01:29:41] Speaker A: Just, like, once. Just one, please.
[01:29:44] Speaker B: Yeah, just one time, please.
[01:29:46] Speaker A: Agreed. So, anyway, well, that was an unexpected monologue.
Let us know your guys's thoughts on it. I'm very curious. It's an ongoing conversation that Leia and I have constantly with each new piece of media that we discuss and stuff. And, yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how it all evolves over the next couple of years. Hopefully, we'll. We'll see some messier characters that get to be just really bad. Super bad.
[01:30:10] Speaker B: Super bad.
[01:30:11] Speaker A: All right, guys, thanks for listening and we'll see you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email
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Sam.
