[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: And if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: Foreign.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we're talking about season two, chapter three, the Pollywog, or as it was initially announced to be the Pumpkin Patch, written by Justin Doble and directed by Sean. Okay, so I've been saying Sean Levy this entire time. It's actually apparently Sean Levy. Oh. So my bad, everybody.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: I would have said Levi, like the Jean Company.
[00:01:05] Speaker C: Oh, interesting. Yeah.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: So it's John Levy. Aired October 27, 2017. And Tabby's here, by the way. You've heard her.
Everyone's like, tavi's here. Welcome, Tabby.
[00:01:18] Speaker C: Thank you. This is my second. Third time on Investigation.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Third. I think. I think it's your third time.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Third.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: But it's been a hot minute since the last time, so I can't remember.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Oh, our first season of doing Investigating was the last time you were here. You came on twice that. Because for. I think I will remember you.
[00:01:34] Speaker C: I think I came on five. Yeah, I think that's actually right. Yeah, I think it was five by five. Yeah.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: It's been a while since you've been on here. Have you been. How's non podcasting life going?
[00:01:45] Speaker C: Honestly? So nice.
It's so nice, guys. Like, I, like, I miss, like, the community and, like, kind of knowing all the updates and.
And all that sort of stuff. It's more frequent when you're obviously in it, but, like, even watching this episode, I was like, oh, like, anytime Sarah was nice enough to be like, okay, like, I'll run this episode. I was like, oh, my God, I can watch the episode without writing so many notes and, like, barely being able to enjoy the episode. Like, it was, like, literally emotional going on to, like, be a. A guest for, like, other podcasts. I'm forgetting their names right now. I'm so sorry.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: And then all bronze, no brain. Thank you.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Yes. I keep wanting to say up the buff, and I can never remember.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: I know. I don't know why that title stuck
[00:02:30] Speaker C: in my brain for Tony.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: He's like, we're not up the buff anymore.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: He's like, we've hard rebranded. Please stop saying that.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: It's been, like, a year and a
[00:02:39] Speaker C: half, but I was like, when I was watching episodes of Buffy, I was like, oh, my gosh, I am a fan. Like, I forgot. Like, I was a fan, because it just, like, is A lot of the times, a job, you know, and obviously, like, I really care for the show. But then it's like you get so burnt out because the show's quality isn't as good towards the end. Still really good, but, like, nowhere near. Yeah, the excitement and the passion you get the first couple seasons. So we felt that with angel of, like, Angel. I was like, I. Like, what is this? I really could. I really don't think I could.
I was like, love you guys. Like, rooting for you. Like, have fun. Like, I think I would actually shoot myself if I had to come on for a fourth season episode. Like, I don't think I could do it.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Well, we got through it.
[00:03:29] Speaker C: I'm so proud of you guys, and I'm really excited for you. New Journey.
Thank you so much.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Sometimes we sit here and we have literally, like, war flashbacks to when we were doing angel season three and four. We're just like.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: Just, like, just take the piss out of it. Which is what you guys were doing. Which, like, makes it way more enjoyable for you guys and for the listeners, too. Because if you're having to really analyze.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: I mean, we really tried, though. We really did.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: We got to a point, though, like. And I know we're gonna eventually get there with Stranger Things too, where it's like, there's not much to pull out of this episode. There's no metaphor. We're just gonna have to sit and talk about it. And then you just make it fun. And you have people on that are fun.
And so we've learned to kind of, like, you double up around those kind of things.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: That's always really nice.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: This episode, like, I was like, oh. Like, it's just like. It's one of those episodes we would talk about when we did Buffy where it's like kind of a hallway episode. Everything is important, but it's leading up to something else. But it's still enjoyable. Like, I was very much having fun watching this episode.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Believe it or not, there's actually more, I feel like that happens in this episode than the previous one. I feel like the previous one, it was the Halloween.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Tell me what happened in the last, like, two episodes.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: The last one was the Halloween episode, which was really, really fun and cute to watch them do all that stuff. But it was a lot of just, like, getting characters where they need to be. It's the one where Nancy gets really drunk and tells Ste.
And then she ends up leaving, or Steve ends up leaving, and then Jonathan drives Nancy back home.
Let's see what else happened in that episode. Oh, it's the one they invite Max
[00:05:05] Speaker B: to come and they, like, took a treat with them.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: So, Max, it was a big Billy episode.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a good episode. Halloween's a good episode.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: I think I preferred the last episode over this one, to be honest. I just felt like there was more, like, action. I don't know. There was more stuff. Like this episode deals with what happened in the last episode, but I prefer the last episode because it had more stuff going on.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: I think there was more character stuff that was.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: Like, you and I had a really great time talking about the Billy dynamic. The Nancy and Steve dynamic. Yeah. Okay. So you guys. Tabby, you enjoyed the episode. Leia, you enjoyed the episode, but you liked the previous one better than this one. I liked this episode more than the other one, just because I felt like I like the dynamic with Dart. And then I also like that we're getting a little bit more of, like, a reveal of what's happening with the bleeding over from the Upside down to this one. I feel like the reveal of Dart. We see the shadow monster, like, a ton in this one, which is really fun.
Yeah. And then also, I feel like we're starting to get into some interesting Steve territory with Billy and Steve Dynamic happening in this one.
And then I'm, you know, interested to see what happens between Nancy, Jonathan, and Steve. Also, Jonathan and Nancy have some sort of idea that they are baiting the government with. So there's some, like, really interesting stuff. But I think that, like, the first. And I think we. We went through this with the first half of season one. It feels like it's a really all. Like, a lot of the first half of the season is just set up, and then you get to the second half, and then things just actually start happening. So I'm kind of ready to get into the second half of the season and get into more of that stuff, which I know is coming.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: But I feel like season one, every single episode, some. Something big was happening. And maybe that's because they were setting everything up, but this season, it feels like it's slower. I mean, the first three episodes have been kind of like monster of the week, like, filler episodes. I feel like. Yeah, like, we're just kind of watching these characters be in their own lives, and obviously we haven't integrated the upside down and all that stuff again that much majorly.
But I just found that interesting because from my memory, I feel like every episode that I've seen, it's like something big happens, but I don't remember these little moments that they're having.
Even though they're not technically little, but they still are in the grand scheme, I feel of this show.
[00:07:37] Speaker C: So I feel like the season two and season one, but specifically season two feels very classic 80s where, like, you're watching it and like, it's a lot of, like, the focus is on the kids, the young kids, experiences and friendships with each other while they're doing Scooby Doo stuff.
And I feel like it's a little bit slower in that aspect. But I, like, I've. I've seen so many people online, like, the really die hard fans don't really love season two, which I know I don't understand that.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: One of my favorite season two.
[00:08:12] Speaker C: I love it and like, I understand, like, Elle not really being in the friend group a lot of it, like being separate with Hopper, but I also really enjoy their dynamics together. I think it's. They actually utilize Hopper where they could have really gone through a route where he's really separate from everyone and then just kind of shoehorned him in like a small sort of way. But, like, I really appreciate what they do with them too this season.
And I think everyone's just thinking of one episode in this season that they don't like, and they think the entire season's like that. I'm like, guys, come on.
But season three is very 80s too, but in a different way, in like an action sort of sense.
But I. I don't know. Season two for me is like, it's. It's the Goonies, it's the Outsiders. It's like. It's. It's that sort of vibe where it's like. It's the classic adolescence.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:07] Speaker C: Story and characterization that we get. And I just. I think the. The show thrives the most when all the characters are together and like, bickering and like, arguing and being kids. I think that's when the show is.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: That's when I enjoy it the most. And I think that's why I love season two, because I like seeing the. Them just be. I love like the Halloween them just going trick or treating because I love the vibe of the 80s and I enjoy watching them work within that world. I think it's really, really fun.
So I agree with you. I think a lot of people prefer more of the action or they prefer like, like the. The dynamic of the group in peril more than they like being.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: That only really works for me if we've built up up until that point, you know, right.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.
Okay, so the only fun fact I have about this episode, which I have not verified this, so if someone out there wants to do this, I would be very curious if this works. But apparently on Google Assistant, there's a game where you talk to Dustin Gaten Matarazzo, and it's based on this episode. The only change between the game and this episode is that in the episode, Dustin doesn't talk to a stranger on his walkie talkie while in the game he does.
And then the stranger is, of course, us being the person playing the game. But if you guys ever want to check that out, apparently you can talk to Dustin and it'll be as if he's found dart and everything, which I think is kind of cute.
Okay, so I have a whole thing to talk about for this episode. I decided to put at the beginning so we just, like, get it out of the way and then we can talk about everything else. But we're going to talk a bit about what Stranger Things is doing with its depictions of Hawkins and the suburbs. All of last season, season one, we talked a lot about the nuclear family idea that the show was kind of going against. And this idea of every. Anything that's normal or depicted as normal is something that a lot of the children and even the show is rebelling. And specifically, they pick the nuclear family because it's this idea of there's only one right way. I'm kind of giving you, like, a little bit of background tabs, but this idea of, like, there's only one right way to live your life. And when we see a lot of. Of. Oh, go ahead.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: No, no, I. I just. Really quick when you're saying that, I had a realization.
I think every season they try to kind of show, like, the theme of what they're talking about through Nancy, specifically whether or not it's done well. But specifically Nancy in season one, season
[00:11:30] Speaker A: two, oh, yeah, he is one of the best characters. She's very consistent all the way through.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: Also, like, season, like, I was watching this episode today, and I was like, I was getting really triggered because a lot of people don't. Some people don't like Nancy. And I think it's just misogyny because I'm like, I love Steve, don't get me wrong. But, like, I was looking at Nancy's, like, decision, decision. She was making this episode, and I was like, I'm just seeing a teenage girl not knowing how to deal with her emotions. She's not being cruel. She's not being like any of these things. She's just, like, trying to figure it out. And she's being a little bit messy, but I think she's being sincere.
And, like, Steve wasn't really that nice in this episode too. And, like, I don't know. I don't think he should have left her at the party. Hot take, but I don't know. We'll get there.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: But anyway, okay, so we talked about kind of the.
The nuclear family, and we're. We're kind of expanding that a little bit this season with talking about the idealistic suburbs or suburbia in an idealistic, idealistic way. So this is all from the SA Hawkins as infected postmodern suburbia. So in the 1950s and 60s, shows and movies have used certain markers, such as the white picket fence, the neighbo pushing a lawnmower, the sparkly pool, the hometown main street, as a way of conveying an idealized suburbia that is reminiscent of the sitcoms of the 1950s and 60s. So after World War II, that's also when the. Obviously the baby boomers were born, and that's when they started building the suburbs. All these cookie cutter houses that look the same. The nuclear family, everybody moves in. You have your 2.5 kids and life is great. You can retire at 45. There's a specific name for stories like this, and the genre is called sitcom suburbs. So Leave it to Beaver. The Andy Griffith Show.
Yep. One Tree Hill, Mary Tyler Moore, I think is her name. All of those. Those shows come from that era where we're looking at this very utopian subculture that thrives on specifically the American Dream. You have fulfilled the American dream.
So in the book Uncovering Stranger Things, the SAS discusses how the show uses Stranger Things, uses tropes and tendencies dominant within a genre sometimes called the suburban gothic. As Bernice Murphy clarifies in the Suburban Gothic and American popular culture, the genre plays upon the lingering suspicion that even the most ordinary looking neighborhood or house or family has something to hide, and that no matter how calm and settled a place looks, it is only ever a moment away from a dramatic and generally sinister incident. Think anything with Stephen King? Think the Truman show or WandaVision are probably the best uses of this trope.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Housewives?
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: 100.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: Desperate housewives?
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally so. Murphy notes that within the suburban Gothic, horror invariably begins at home, and that the genre thus investigates tensions surrounding the uneasy fascination with the connection between living environment and psychology that drives most narratives about haunted or otherworldly spaces. Murphy also discusses how suburban Gothic narratives often exploit a closely interrelated set of contradictory attitudes in which the suburb is seen simultaneously as dream and nightmare, and in which a place insulated from the dangers of the outside world is simultaneously a place in which the most dangerous threats come from within, not from without. I mean, classic case in point, Buffy. Like, you have high school on a Hellmouth. You have every. Like everything that's happening anytime you have the crossover between Buffy's life inside of her home. And then like something comes in, like the vampire entering into the home or Ted coming into Buffy's home. Like, all of those things are extra creepy to us because we see the suburbs, our homes, as a safe place where these things shouldn't be coming in.
So seen within the context of the suburban gothic, Hawkins, Indiana, and its obverse, the Upside down, are both expressions of the same suburbia. For the remainder of the series, Stranger Things will repeatedly invoke the implicit safety of suburbia in order to turn it on its head, revealing it quite the literally, the Upside Down. And it offers a critique not only of the dominant ideologies associated with suburbia, but also of our collective cultural connection to and nostalgia for the mediated suburban image that the sustain these ideals. So a little long winded. But they go on to talk about how using images like the white picket fence and other things that we associate with this idealistic utopia, suburbia movies and shows create an imagery or imaginary ideal suburbia that is inspired more by the proliferation of the portrayals of these suburban environments then it is actually inspired by reality. And they talk about how in the postmodern, they call it simulacrum, basically they're saying that there's become this cyclical thing where there was this idea in their mind of what suburbia should look like. So they create it in these movies and TV shows. And over time, people look back at that and go, oh, that's how things used to be. And so then they just continue to perpetuate it until eventually we have no idea what it. What it even is supposed to look like. Everybody keeps pointing back to this idealistic time or this idealistic idea of what our neighborhoods and our culture is supposed to look like. But that was actually just an idealistic portrayal of something that someone made up. I don't know if that even makes sense. But they were talking about how it just basically keeps reproducing itself in media. Therefore, in their words, they said suburbia is always a reflection of reflection of a reflection. There's nothing actually very real at the root of it. The continued proliferation of Mediated suburban aesthetics contributes to a persistent, though not always explicit, invocation of suburban space as the requisite setting for the realization of the so called American Dream, which is itself attached to ideological imperatives dating to the anti communist rhetoric of the 1950s. This connection is bolstered by the dominance of suburban settings and portrayals of the American Everyman. Along with the continued cultural tendency to center spaces of white greatness such as suburbia as normative. It also perpetuates the idea of suburban spaces as a milieu of perfectibility in service of the American Dream, reinforcing the notion that continuous adherence to the ideological imperatives that sustain this non real ideal is the only path to the Dream's realization. Thus, texts which rely on the suburbia simulacrum often explicitly or implicitly reinforce ideologies that sustain late capitalism and the suburban consumerism build to foster it. So they include. This includes white supremacy, the nuclear family, patriarchal gender rules, blind faith in the government, and liberty through mass consumption. Where and when these ideologies falter, most suburban narratives suggest, so too does the rest of the community. So in order to keep everyone in these, you know, little rigid stereotypes, in order to benefit capitalism and all this other stuff, they say everything will fall apart if we don't do it this way. Which is how we get to the criticism of Stranger Things about the nuclear family. There's this idea, if you don't look this certain way, society, society will fall apart. Our, our appearance of strength is going to collapse and then we won't be able to, to beat the Russians. Like that's essentially the framework that they're being taught from Reagan administration all the way down.
[00:18:52] Speaker C: Everything always comes back to freaking Reagan.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: It does, it really, really does. A lot of our stuff has been coming back to that, Leia and I just, I feel like a, a broken record, but like it's just a cycle. Like we're just seeing this and each
[00:19:05] Speaker C: of the broken men are packaged very differently on the outside.
Yeah, but what that, what that society accepted and what they needed, unquote, in a leader and what they absorbed in a leader during that time. It's actually very fascinating.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Well, and then I was, as I'm reading this because, like, it talks about how in today's world, and Even in the 80s, the rural and the urban started bleeding into the suburban, which is very class and race coded. And I'm thinking today about all of the gerrymandering stuff that's happening in like Tennessee and stuff where they're trying to purposely shut out black Communities and people who do not adhere adhere to the conservative ideologies in an effort to keep their people in power. And I'm sitting here going, it's the same. They're using a lot of the same argumentation. There's a lot of the same racial undertones of, oh, they're contaminating. I say, in quotations. This idealistic view of the suburbs we have to keep. Like you've heard, oh, lock your doors. We're driving through an unsafe neighborhood. What. What makes it an unsafe neighborhood? There's, you know, people that don't look like me that are here. Yeah. So, anyway, so Stranger Things utilizes the idea of the Upside down as a way to present Hawkins as it truly an already infected relic of a nostalgic suburban ideal, a mirage of normality hiding a sinister and dark reality that is already present within it. The danger in Hawkins is not merely metaphorical or even limited to encounters with the Upside Down. Threats from the Upside down run directly parallel to cruelty, abuse or neglect inflicted on the various protagonists. For instance, Will getting bullied in the Trick or Treating episode, which triggers him directly into the shadow monster. And this is verified in this episode when Joyce sees the shadow monster on the TV in that moment, showing that it's actually bleeding through. When Willie. When Will. Willie.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Willie.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: When Will is getting bullied.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Will.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Willy, Billy. There's so many Williams, like on Buffy. And over here, why is everyone named William?
[00:20:59] Speaker C: Like Bob is also William.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: It's like the whitest ass name you could ever. Bob.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Robert.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: Bob is Robert
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Bobber.
So anyway, they say in this way, Stranger Thing continues the tradition of using the suburban gothic as a means to critique the suburban environment and its pitfalls. But it does so in a way that reimagines cultural adherence to the suburbia simulacrum as itself a source of danger. So the result is a sort of metacritique of the way suburban nostalgia is deployed and how it contributes to a mindset like the assumption that things like that simply shouldn't happen in places like this. And I'm completely reminded of Jamie Lee Curtis talking about the Palisade fire. I think was last year, a year and a half ago, where she talked about parts of LA looking like war zones like Gaza. And you're like, okay, so what? Like the point?
[00:21:52] Speaker B: It's like. It's like you're so close to the point, but you're so far away.
[00:21:57] Speaker A: It's like she.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: I don't know. Every. Every good thing that she does is pretty profound. She says, like two or three Equal things that are just like, yeah, yeah, she does. Like, it's so.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: That's like. Remember when Kelly. Who was it? Kelly Osborne was on the View or something, and she was talking about immigration and she was like, and what would we do? And what.
[00:22:19] Speaker C: Who's gonna clean toilets? Donald Trump?
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: And everyone's like.
[00:22:24] Speaker C: Everyone's like.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: I was like, no, no.
They're like, oh, that's.
I don't think.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: And she said it so confidently, too. And she's like, no, but guys in the sense. And they're like, I mean, dude, I was just talking to a co worker about this. And we were talking about that specifically because we brought up that clip and we were talking about how, like, it's two sides of the same coin with people who are like, have that mindset where they're like, they've done a whole 180 while they're trying to, like, be supportive.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:57] Speaker C: But then they're done.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: They're leaning, right.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: And it's like, that's.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: Is that specific, like, train of thought that brings you. Like, you're like, oh, we're there. Oh,
[00:23:09] Speaker A: we're waving to it as we go by.
And it really. And it's really sad because this is where intersectionality is so important. Right? You can have a very wealthy white woman who understands why feminism is important, but she doesn't understand the classist element of it because she's coming from a place of privilege. And this is why there's a class importance to talking about race, talking about feminism, talking about all that stuff, because you have these people who have not experienced at all anything that a black person or a black woman would experience. And I think sometimes there's this idea, especially among the wealthy and privileged. And, I mean, I include myself in this, too, because there's no way I'm ever going to be able to stand in the same shoes as somebody, as a person of color, because I'm not that I can't live that experience. And so this is where it's so important to take a step back and realize that, yes, we have. Maybe we're both women and we have experienced all sorts of things because we're women, but there's going to be limits to my experience based upon so many other factors, you know? But, yeah, anyway, that's one of the beauties about, like, talking about Stranger Things and Buffy and others is just seeing how, like, in real world, this stuff is still popping up and it's still relevant and we still should be talking about it.
[00:24:28] Speaker C: You Know, like, the deconstruction of the family unit in individual houses, of the. The kids in Stranger Things is very interesting, too. I could talk about that for a long time. Each of their households are like, even. Even if you think of, like, the buyers, they are the most typical.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: You mean the Wheelers.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: Sorry. Thank you. Yeah, the Wheelers.
The most like and quote, unquote, like, typical family. The most clear family. Yeah. And even so, then it's like that's kind of still very much a broken household, you know, and it's like every one of them has something.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Well, there's a reason. And this goes to my next point. There's a reason Karen and Ted are not aware of what's going on, the same way that Joyce and Hopper are, because at the end of the day, the only people who are able to see what's happening are the outcasts are the people who are living on the fringes of society, those who are bullied and marginalized because they're able to see the seedy underbelly of the suburban utopia for what it is, because they have to actually live with the repercussions of what it means to be an outcast.
And I think that's why this episode is really interesting to me, because we're starting to see Steve experiencing that with Billy, which is something new. Steve hasn't really had to experience. Experienced that. And I think Steve needs to, because there's still some, like, growing on his part.
And I think that's going to be something that the show's going to be addressing for the rest of the series and stuff. But anyway, I know that was long, but I thought that was really interesting. And I think that, like, makes a lot of sense in this season in particular, because we're going to start to see more of the. The. The cracks emerging in the community, and that's going to be even more heightened in the next season, too.
So, anyway, all right, jumping into the episode, we're in the Henderson house, and Dustin, we don't see what he found, but he's very suspicious as he's trying to make his way into his bedroom. His mom comes out and she's, like, dusty. And he's, like, all flustered.
And then she clocks. She clocks it immediately that he's being kind of sketched. And she's like, are you constipated?
[00:26:37] Speaker B: Does that happen often?
[00:26:40] Speaker C: He's like, no, mom.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: It's all the nougat.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: His mom's relationship, it's so sweet every season.
I just love her.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: You can Tell the mom has anxiety. Like she just like he almost. It's probably not the healthiest, let's be real healthiest parent child's dynamic because it's almost like he parents her. But you could tell that she really loves him and it's so cute.
[00:27:04] Speaker C: It's very sweet. Well we never see his dad too. So maybe she has anxiety where she's like are you good? Like are we all good? Like yeah, my parents can go good enough.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Like yeah, exactly.
So his trap starts shaking and he's like oh, you know, I just rigged the trap to look like one of the movies. And they both like hahaha. She's like, you're so funny, Dusty. He's like yeah, I'm hilarious. And he gets in his room, he's like.
And then he like cute empties out his terrarium and then he yeets yertle the turtle out. I want to know what happened to Euro.
That's just free roaming his his.
[00:27:36] Speaker C: I get like guys, my maternal instincts. Whenever I watch the first like three seasons of the show. I'm like, like they are so, they're so baby.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah, they're tiny.
[00:27:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: So then he dumps the contents of the trap into the terrarium and we see a tiny two legged tadpole like thing with a tail that's been making all these noises that we've been hearing. This whole thing, it looks very slimy. I don't know why they think it's
[00:27:59] Speaker C: someone who has a phobia of frogs and toads. Like I was getting a little traffy.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Is a phobia of camels? No, not camels, sorry, kangaroos too.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: I'm like tabby, where have you come across across a camel?
[00:28:15] Speaker C: Camel.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Tabby's like no, don't get me started
[00:28:18] Speaker C: while I'm talking about kangaroos because listeners do not want to hear me talking
[00:28:21] Speaker A: about every single tik toks of kangaroos to scare her. So mean.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: They bully me by sending me
[00:28:31] Speaker A: sometimes.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: Leah knows I won't open them up now so I'll be with her and she'll just like get really sneaky and show them to me. But the funny thing is she doesn't like them either. I just have more of an intense, it's like a genuine phobia. Like I'm not, not lying when I say like I, I feel disgusted if I see a video with them.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Like I feel like you can't handle straws either.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: It's specific things but anyway. Yeah, but toads, I have like a lot of trauma with toads. Because we had a lot of them around our house and there were way too many corpses and they were very fast around our house. I have like. I get like, yeah, that and kangaroos are like my two things.
[00:29:11] Speaker A: But anyway, I'm gonna put on your DND character sheet. Weakness. Toads, camels and king.
[00:29:19] Speaker B: She's like, no, don't discriminate against camels, please.
[00:29:22] Speaker C: Hey, I me, I love camels, you know, no problem.
They do spit a lot, but that's okay.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: Tap is like all out. As long as you're not spitting on me or in my. In my. A wall.
[00:29:37] Speaker C: In my straw.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: All right. So Dustin feeds the little thing candy. The creature doesn't seem to like the heat light. It only comes out once Dustin turns it off. Dustin decides to call him d' Artanian or Dart, telling him that he's super cute. So I am not as familiar with the three Musketeers. So I did a little deep dive. And so d' Artagnan is one of the three Musketeers character. He's not one of the three Musketeers. He's technically an apprentice who wanted to become a musketeer and trained underneath them.
[00:30:14] Speaker C: If it wasn't a character in the Barbie Three Musketeers, I wouldn't know. It's the only musketeer.
[00:30:20] Speaker A: The only musketeer. You know, you never watched the Mickey Mouse one where it was like, Donald.
[00:30:24] Speaker C: Oh, we did watch that one. I just remember the Barbie one. That's the only one I'm versed in.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: D' Artagnan is actually considered the main character and he ends up becoming a musketeer later on in the novel and I guess the fourth movie musketeer. He's known for being brave and intelligent and is also kind of selfish and manipulative and is seen as the unofficial leader of the group. So there's a reason why Dustin names Dart that. Because I think he low key sees himself as that in the group.
So later on, we see Dustin asleep on his bed with candy and open book on reptiles on his chest. We pan over and see Dart doing something in his terrarium. We zoom in. We see him chittering and gurgling before he lifts his head and gives a very familiar Demogorgon esque sound. And we're like, like, oh, Dustin, dusty buns, you're raising a Demogorgon.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: And Dustin, if you come across something that looks like that and you know about the upside down, like, my first thought would be, this creature is from The Upside Down. Why am I touching it?
[00:31:23] Speaker C: And he's like, new species.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, I'm so discovery created.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: I found my own. He's, like, not thinking about the fact that, like, clearly someone else would have discovered something. Like, you're not gonna discover new species in your trash. Yeah.
[00:31:39] Speaker B: But also, if you also realize that it's like, an unknown species and you know about the Upside down and the creature that comes from the Upside Down,
[00:31:47] Speaker C: I would assume, wouldn't you be like,
[00:31:49] Speaker B: hey, guys, maybe remember last year when all of hell broke loose and came from, like, another dimension?
Yeah. Maybe this is from there, too. I don't know.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
Like, I wouldn't think that it was a Demogorgon if I were him, but I would definitely think it was from the Upside down, but.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: So according to the duffers, there are five life cycles for the baby Demogorgon, with this being the Pollywog stage. We will next see the frog. A gorgon stage is what they called it in this episode when it sprouts out two more legs. I know Tabby. Tabby's loving this.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Very good.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: And then there are three later stages.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Dusty.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: I mean, it is. It looks like snot. It's got snail trail everywhere it goes.
[00:32:31] Speaker C: Like, oh, it's so cute. Like, that looks like a sperm. That's a slimy.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: Like, it does.
Like an oversized, slimy sperm.
[00:32:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a booger.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: It's. I. I do like how Mike is. His first instinct is squish it and no one's letting him. He's like, guys, let's go.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: Let's.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Let's be so for real here.
Dart's voice is achieved by sound designer Paul Graff doing the vocals by gargling a little bit of water.
Dart also has a little bit of a limp due to the way he was originally rendered. There was something wrong with it and the machinery or the. The computer program gave him a limp and they decided to keep it because they thought it was kind of cute. And in case you want to differentiate Dart from any other potential Pollywogs that we may or may not see in the future, he has a yellowish birthmark on his hind leg. So just, you know, keep. Keep an eye out for. In case, you know, we maybe. Maybe see more. Don't know.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: Know.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: Who knows?
Gaten says that Sean Levy helped him bond with Dart because he was usually acting against nothing, saying, to help me get in depth with the character and to be emotionally connected. He would make noises when directing because there wasn't Anything there to work off of. He would make a noise that we both imagined that Dart would make, and he would use that type of voice to direct me and keep me on the edge emotionally. He was playing Dart, which I thought was pretty cute.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: That's so fun. I love when, like, directors will kind of keep the child innocence with
[00:33:53] Speaker A: certain characters. Yeah, Yeah, I agree. All right, so now we have a flashback. It's a wintry evening of Hopper checking that box we saw from the previous season. We see him from Elle's point of view. She's dressed in the hat and the coat that she got from the Hunter. And then at the end of the episode, Elle reveals herself to him, and we realize this is the first time that they've connected. And then the present day, Elle is. Is still ignoring Hopper and is still upset. And he's like, well, I guess I'm just gonna have to eat this triple decker Eggo extravaganza on my own. See her be like, all right, well, I guess I'll get up then. They're eating Hoppers trying to make small talk, and Elle's having none of it. Good for you. L. Hold your line. Hold your boundaries. He talks about the TV cord going into her room and is like, did you visit him again last night? Elle says that he needs me and hops, like, want me to check on him? Al's like, no. And Hopper's like, I know you miss him, but it's too dangerous. You're the last thing he needs right now. You're going to see him soon. In real life, I feel like I'm making progress with these people. And Elle just stares them down and says, friends don't lie. You said soon. On day 21, you say soon. At day 205, you now say soon. At day three, 26, Hopper's like, what is this? You counting down the days like some kind of prisoner? Elle's like, when is soon? Hopper, like, avoids her eyes and is like, when it's not dangerous anymore. You can tell he's just deflecting. I mean, like. And it's hard because I just. I understand what Hopper's trying to do. He's trying to protect her and stuff. But it's also, like, like, so frustrating from Elle's point of view, when she's like, when does my life begin, essentially? And I don't know, maybe it's because, like, we're acutely aware of the fact that Elle has superpowers, and I know Hopper is aware of it, too, but I'm sitting here going Hopper, like, if she. She really wants to, at some point, she's gonna break out, and then you'll have absolutely no ability to help her whatsoever. So it feels like he needs to be a little bit. Well, I mean, obviously, she breaks out in this episode.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: I think he's not just protecting her, though. He's protecting her and everyone else.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: Like that.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: That's the thing.
And I think Elle, obviously, she's a child. Like, she wants to be outside with her friends, and she. Her and Mike are, like, obsessed with each other.
Like, obsessed with each other. I'm like, damn.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: Literally, you guys knew each other codependent
[00:36:05] Speaker C: maybe,
[00:36:09] Speaker B: but I get it. I mean, she's never had that, like, human connection with before, and she is.
[00:36:14] Speaker C: Never had a relationship with a girl ever. So.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like, I get it. And they're.
[00:36:18] Speaker C: They're.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Again, they're children. But, yeah, I do. I do tend to kind of understand Hopper's side more here of why he won't let her go and why it's not safe. Just, like, not just for her, but for other people. Because we saw what happened in season one. Everybody incorporated Elle into their lives, and all of a sudden, all of hell breaks loose. Like, I just feel like wherever she goes, danger follows because of the situation that she was in. Right.
So I don't blame him. I think he should. I think Hopper is the type of parent that is just like, you're just gonna do this because I said so.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: So I feel like if he were to, like, have a conversation with her and explain it to her, maybe it would make things better. But, yeah, it's. I think it's hard on both sides, but I think I get why Hopper's so such a hard ass about this.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, obviously, this is a life or death situation. Right. And I think you are right there. I forgot there was a quote from David Harbour who talks about how Hopper is thinking of Joyce and Will. He has to keep El under wraps to protect Joyce and Will. And he's. He's like, if I. If they realize that El is actually. I've been harboring her, she's actually out there, then they might stop helping Will and stuff.
So I get that. I think Hopper has to figure out a more workable route, though. And I do get the sense that he has talked to Elle probably about what he's working towards and what he's trying to do. But, I mean, like, at the end of the day, it's one of those things where he's trying to slowly manipulate Them. It isn't one of those things where he's going to have a hard and fast. Okay, I. I know we. We have reached point or step three in my 15 points point, you know, plan. It's. It's just whenever it happens. But I. I can resonate with Elle's frustration, and I think there needs to be.
He has to do a better job of compromising, I think.
[00:38:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:11] Speaker C: I feel like. I mean, maybe this isn't the correct way to do it, but I feel like it might be easier if Elle also has something to work towards. It makes her feel like if she gets this done, I can then, like,
[00:38:24] Speaker A: for instance, like, include her in the plan.
[00:38:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Or just have her something to do while he's gone. So, like, okay, you have to do a lot of homework and then catch up to where your class would be, what age you'd be in. And so therefore she can be like, okay, well, if I. If I'm up to date with where, like, Mike and, you know, everyone else is, then I can then go into school and be a normal kid. So keep her busy by. And that's also not like, just busy work for no reason too. Like, her education is also important for that age. So, like, you could do that stuff as well and be like, okay, like, if you want to be a normal kid, kid, this is what normal kids are doing right now. You have to catch up.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: But then that also could backfire too, because if she's really smart and she catches up, she's like, okay, well then what else? And you're like, she gets bored.
Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: So I'll just get so angry, says I need to see him. And then they argue, and she uses her powers to shove the eggos onto his uniform, covering him in whipped cream and syrup. And then she yells, friends don't lie again. Storms to her bedroom and uses her powers to slam the door as Hop kicks the table. So everything's going fantastic at their cabin. At the buyer's house, Joyce is looking for keys again. Everyone's helping her, and they can't find them. Bob emerges from her bedroom with the keys, and Jonathan's going, hang on, he's staying over now. This is like the first time that's happened. And Joyce asks him to take Will to school, saying she cannot be late again.
And Bob's like, oh, I can take him. And then he's like, want to take a ride in the Bob mobile? And then we jump to the library. Dustin is checking out the books, and we see that he's there with Marissa the librarian that was mad at Hopper from the previous season because he, like, smart ass.
[00:40:01] Speaker C: I love that, like, they. They. He is so consistently accurate to his character every season. It's just like, yeah, like, he is always a smart ass, but he's really charming. And then, like, but also, like, really cares. But he is deep down, like, really arrogant. And like, I. I just love that that, like, is like, poked fun at, you know, with later dynamic. But it is true, like, you see in the earlier seasons where he's like, guys, I'm clearly the brains of this operation and every opportunity is like, I'm the smartest one. And sometimes he really is. He is.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: We were talking about in the last episode how, like, he and Lucas were trying to approach Max and they were dressed in their Halloween costumes and nobody else in the school was. And Max, or sorry, Lucas was just like, oh, like, we look like losers. We can't approach her. And Dustin's like, what do you mean? Like, we look so cool. We're just gonna. We should just go. She'll think we're amazing. And it's like, Clue.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: Max is making fun of him the entire time.
[00:40:59] Speaker B: He has no idea that, you know. But I love that. It's like. It's like a. Yeah, it's like harmony delusion level. Almost like harmony from Buffy where she's just living her best life because she's just so delusional and she's so confident in, like, herself.
Yeah, I love that about Dustin. He's just unapologetically himself and he thinks he's. He thinks the things that he likes are the coolest things.
And he, like, he loves to, like, learn about new things and knowledge and. And, you know, I think he's a value. I think he is the leader of the team.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Forget Mike. I do like, though, like, having him find Dart and also having, you know, Lucas and Mike and others be like, hey, we don't think this is a good idea. We think that we need to tell an adult or whatever. And Lucas or. Sorry, Dustin being like, no, no, no. I think I like that they're kind of playing to his arrogance a little bit.
And how Dustin has kind of taken Dart in as a member of the gang by saying he trusts me. That's very similar to the language the kids use with each other. And they're all over there. Like, we didn't vote him into the
[00:42:06] Speaker B: party here because, like, Mike and Lucas and everybody. Everybody else is like, oh, we want to have girls in the party.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: I'm like, dart
[00:42:16] Speaker C: booger.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Literally, everyone's like, girls, girls. And Justin's like, boogers.
[00:42:26] Speaker C: I. I love, like, I just love Dustin this season specifically. I think he just cracks me up. Like, no one else would be able to have dart and make this season work. Like, they would get too stressed out and they'd let somebody else know. Like, he's the only one that would be arrogant enough to be like, no,
[00:42:44] Speaker B: we have to go to an adult.
[00:42:48] Speaker A: I have discovered a whole entire new species in my trash can. Because science is that easy, guys. That easy. I'm just that smart. I'm just that good.
[00:42:57] Speaker C: Exactly. It's just. It's so.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: The delusion is very charming.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: I mean, technically, he did discover a new species. It's just not, I guess, from Earth.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: I love how the librarian, Marissa, I wonder if she's getting war flashbacks and going, this is like a mini hopper right here with the arrogance. She's telling him, like, five book max, Mr. Henderson. And he was like, these are. I am on a curiosity voyage.
[00:43:22] Speaker C: I have worked with so many kids like him, and my poker face cannot keep it up. I'll just sit there and start laughing. I'm like, you are. And they know that they. They've won people over. And I'm like, yeah, and you know what? You've won me over. Like, you're like, just take them. I kind of respect it, you know? He's like, yeah, these are five. These are five books.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: All right. So Bob's car.
Bob is telling or asks Will if he had another nightmare, and Will says no. Bob's like, did I ever tell you about. Mr. Baldo tells him a story about seeing a clown at the fair and how now. It's funny now, but it scared him so much that he would nightmares about him and that he'd run away from him in his dreams every night. Then it went on for months until the nightmare stopped. Because he didn't run. He stood his ground one time, and he told Mr. Baldo to go away. Mr. Baldo left. Easy peasy, right? We can see Will just taking this in, being like, oh, this is amazing. Like, great, perfect.
I'm gonna do this later on. And we're like, I. I low key. The first time I watched this, I was like, oh, no, Is Bob gonna end up being a villain? Because there was something, like, sinister about this moment in the way that Bob was talking.
But obviously it just to foreshadow everything in the beyond. Stranger Things after show, the duffers revealed that in an early outline of the episode, Will would have been evil by this point and would have killed Bob in this. In this episode.
But they were like, we don't think we want to have Will do that. And also, we really like Sean Aston. We don't want to kill him off.
[00:44:45] Speaker C: So I was about to say, I was like, anytime. Freaking.
I've never met a Sean Aston character I didn't love. Every time he's in something, I'm like,
[00:44:51] Speaker A: I just love
[00:44:55] Speaker C: the sweetest person. Everyone always talks about him at cons, like, he's the nicest dude.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: So at school, Max and Lucas are walking the halls, and Max asks why Will is called Zombie Boy, saying she knows he was lost in the woods. But why is he a zombie? Lucas says it's because they thought he was dead and they had a funeral and they even found a dead body that they thought was him. Max thinks he's joking, but Lucas is like, it's public knowledge and you can ask anybody. Just don't ask Will because he's sensitive about it. Then we see Will being dropped off feeling really self conscious. As kids talk about him, we hear Mr. Clark's voiceover as he teaches about the case of Phineas Gage, a medical curiosity about a rail railroad worker in 1848 who had an accident. And we're like, oh, he's talking about Will.
We're now in class. Mr. Clark is drawing on an old school projector as he describes a large metal rod that went through Phineas's skull. Didn't kill him. It changed his personality. He's. And his friends no longer called him Gage. They called him almost Gage.
Or they called him no longer Gage.
[00:45:51] Speaker C: This is the classic case of, if you want to know the theme of an episode, listen to the teacher every single time.
It works really well, though. In episodes, I'm like, you know what? I wouldn't change it. It's just, it's. Once you notice it, you're like, oh, yep. Parallels to whatever character we're talking of the episode. Yeah, Yep.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Max is watching him and he notices. Then Dusty Dustin.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: This.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: This scene, it kills me. Dustin person. It's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Continue, please continue. Don't mind me. It doesn't even let Mr. Clark breathe. Please, please continue. Sits in the front and then immediately calls a huddle with the four boys. And it's like, we have to meet at lunch. All of us at 80 Club. I have something you won't believe. And he turns around, starts whisper, yelling at Max. And Mr. Clark's like, Dustin. Dustin's like, yes, my Lord, this is what I mean.
[00:46:37] Speaker C: It's like the charm, but then the arrogance at the same time. And then he's like. He's like, okay, we're talking about. And then he'll say the name of the person, and then he just repeats right after. Got this person like, okay, this page, this page. It's like, okay, Dustin.
[00:46:51] Speaker A: Smartest person in the room. We get it. Mr. Clark's like, would you like to join the class now? Justin's like, yep, absolutely. Unzips his backpack, and we see the Ghostbusters battery pack is in there. And we're like, oh, you did not bring dark class. You're smitten.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: He's smitten by the booger. The slimy booger.
[00:47:10] Speaker C: They have a connection, remember? Their besties trusts him.
Oh, my gosh.
[00:47:18] Speaker A: At the station, the deputies are giving Hopper the info they found on the rot. This just killed me. Hopper's surprised at how little there is, but then instantly clocks their lazy butts. He's like, is that it? Or did you guys just get tired of looking? And Pal's like, well, it was getting dark. And Callahan's like, I mean, it was getting really dark. And Hopper stares at him a minute and is like, it's called flashlights, you dipshits. Calhen's like, oh, oh, okay. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. And Pal's like, more lady problems. Cheap and poor isn't listening. He sees that the X's representing the Raw are all around the lab. He grabs the map, lays it down the desk, circling in around the lab before taking in his coat. And then I love how he runs past Flo on the way, and she doesn't even look up. She just grabs the keys and hands him like. She's just so used to his routine. But the. The deputies were killing me in this one. They're like, he's. He, like, insults in their. Like, oh, okay.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: This is.
[00:48:15] Speaker C: This is the most action they've gotten in years, literally. And they're so used to the bare minimum that they're like, okay, mister, why
[00:48:21] Speaker A: are we doing more?
[00:48:22] Speaker C: Why are you so wired like God? It's really not that serious.
[00:48:26] Speaker A: Even though you're requiring us to go measure the pumpkins. It got dark. We're done. Dark means our day is over. We only work four hours a day.
[00:48:35] Speaker B: You know what? I appreciate some kings with boundaries. You know, work isn't life if you're popular.
[00:48:43] Speaker C: You could argue, though, that it is.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: I mean, but anyone else, absolutely.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: But it's Hawkins Nothing happens in Hawkins.
[00:48:50] Speaker C: Exactly. That's their mindset for sure. They're like, nothing has ever happened here other than maybe, like, an affair and, like, a domestic dispute that we have to deal with, you know?
Yeah.
[00:49:01] Speaker A: So in the cabin, 11's just laying in bed when she decides to spy on Mike again, but then yanks off the blindfold and heads to the front door. We get a flashback and we just go back and forth. Hopper bringing her to the cabin for the first time, still dressed in her cap and coat. He talks about his granddad living there and how there's a lot of history there. We see boxes marked Sarah. We do this really cute little, like, montage of them fixing up the cabin. He plays, like, his music. This song is by a guy named Jim Croce, I think is his name. It's called you don't mess around with Jim, which I think is funny because it's Jim Hopper, which is, of course, you know, I'm like, oh, his.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: Of course he likes over here.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: I guess Destin 1.0. Dustin would be, you know, 2.0. So then Elle looks startled as he's, like, dancing. And then they sweep and they set up booby traps. And then he goes through the ground rules, lays down a piece of paper, says, no opening up curtains or blinds. And as he says these rules, we see Elle in real time, actively breaking them, opening up the curtains and the blinds, which. That's so extra. She didn't even need to do that. But it was almost like a pointed, like, I'm breaking all the rules, Hopper. Then she opens the door.
Only if she hears a secret lock. She opens the door, she steps out. Oh, in the daylight. And then she steps across the booby trap that he set up and says, we are not stupid. All right, so at the high school, Steve is up against Billy in basketball. And Billy's like, Harrington, right? I heard you used to run this school. But then you turn. Then he steals the ball and does a layup, leaving Steve in the dust.
[00:50:26] Speaker B: Billy's so gross.
[00:50:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so funny because you didn't think he was gross before this rewatch, did you? Lay.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: I mean, I would. I've never been, like, a Billy fan.
I always thought the, like, the actor is very attractive, but, yeah, I mean, his personality is just horrible.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: Yeah, he really is actor.
[00:50:47] Speaker C: Fantastic.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: Fantastic job.
[00:50:50] Speaker C: Great job. And they.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: They hate it.
Thanks. We hate it.
And we can't talk too much about this now because this is only the beginning of the interactions between Billy and Steve. But back when this Season was airing some people worshiping Steve and Billy, saying that there was some tension between them. In the essay, the queer subtext of Stranger Things,
[00:51:12] Speaker B: it's like angel and Lindsay.
[00:51:15] Speaker C: Like, there are certain shows that people, like, really just pair up literally everywhere.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: They be shipping everybody.
[00:51:22] Speaker C: Yeah. And this is one of those shows where it's like, I've seen a ship at it for every single possible.
[00:51:29] Speaker B: Which is why it's me, because I don't think I ship anybody in this show because they're all children.
Luke is just like.
[00:51:38] Speaker C: And Max are my babies. I love them, but I also just love them separately. And then they grow to be just, like, adorable.
[00:51:44] Speaker B: Exactly. Like, there's not a ship where I'm like, oh, my God, I'm ride or die. Like, I'm riding hard for this ship. Like, I don't care that much because I feel like that's not the point of the shuttle.
Obviously, shipping is not the point of any show. People do it because they enjoy doing that. But it's just so funny to me how hardcore people ship. Like, everybody in this show with everybody else.
[00:52:07] Speaker A: Yeah, there are some hardcore shippers. And, like, obviously, as we get closer to the end of the show, we will talk about that.
[00:52:13] Speaker C: But, yeah, you can argue, too. Like, there are some shows that are only thriving because of the shipping culture.
[00:52:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's very profitable for viewership.
[00:52:23] Speaker C: Yeah. But those shows tend to be. There are, like, two gigantic ships in the show that people will tend to kind of, like, have really big opinions on, but everyone else is kind of, like, free to take. But there are certain shows, and it tends to be, like, the supernatural, fantastical shows that people will just, like. And there are. Every 10 years. Yes. Every 10 years, there's, like, three or four shows where everyone ships. Everyone.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:50] Speaker C: Together. It's very interesting. I'm like, why these shows? You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's. You can never really kind of.
[00:52:58] Speaker B: I think when you have characters that. People that are interesting, that people relate to, maybe people.
[00:53:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:06] Speaker B: Like, in shipping, I think a lot of people ship because they're doing a lot of projecting.
[00:53:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:53:12] Speaker B: A lot of the time, like, it's a very personal thing to ship, I think. And I think when you have shows like that. And I find with a lot of supernatural shows, usually the way to make characters interesting in the supernatural setting is to make them have, like, a bigger personality, to make them have, like, quirks or, like, I don't know, just to be also relatable. So Maybe that's why. I don't know. It's interesting.
[00:53:39] Speaker A: Well, I was gonna say, I think a lot of these shows that we're thinking of are typically geared towards adolescents and for younger people. And younger people are going to be a lot more about shipping because they are just discovering romantic relationships for the first time. And they're also to figure out who they are, what they like, and they often are doing that through their avatars, which are these characters.
[00:53:59] Speaker B: I was going to say people latch on to characters.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:02] Speaker B: And then they ship the character with, like, everyone or whoever they think is, like, the best match for this character. But I think it's. It's. It's not. I don't think, like, from what I see online at least, I don't think shipping is really about the relationship itself. It's about the character. Like, oh, I love, love Steve as a character.
[00:54:21] Speaker C: Therefore, heavy on that.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: I'm gonna ship him with Nancy. Hardcore.
[00:54:26] Speaker C: There's one specific ship where I'm like. Some of them, I'm like, okay, I can see the. I can see the. The seeds. But I don't. I don't agree. But, like, maybe there's something there. You guys could really, really stretch out.
[00:54:37] Speaker B: People ship characters from completely different shows that have never met.
[00:54:41] Speaker C: I think those are funny.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Like Buffy and Dean Winchester. People ship Buffy and Dean Winchester, the
[00:54:48] Speaker C: Roderick, and then the Regina George edits. Those make me cry.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: What?
[00:54:57] Speaker C: Maybe like, 40 pages? Like, because it's just people going crazy where they're just like, what is the most ridiculous? But once it kind of makes sense, and they'll just edit them in the same color grade of whatever movie they want to stick with. And it. They make me, like, I'll have tears streaming on my list. Because there are some combinations.
[00:55:15] Speaker B: I don't have crazy.
[00:55:16] Speaker C: I don't have your tick tock Leia. But I'll have to send you some of them. They are funny.
[00:55:20] Speaker A: Please. The one with Steve and what's her name from Dance Moms.
[00:55:24] Speaker C: No, that's what I mean.
[00:55:27] Speaker A: You said Regina George.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: Those are so funny.
[00:55:30] Speaker C: That's a whole other, like, sub genre. Well, everyone's like, they'll. They'll start. And it's funny because you don't see it coming. It'll be like, Regina George. And you're like, okay, who are we gonna.
And it's always Abby Lee Miller, like, just creeps into 20.
[00:55:44] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:55:48] Speaker C: It's funny with Obama and a ton of people. Oh, my God.
[00:55:53] Speaker B: Did you guys see the ones where it was during election season, obviously, but people were making ship edits of Joe Biden.
[00:56:00] Speaker C: Joe Biden and Trump.
[00:56:01] Speaker A: Yes. I think it was Gavin Newsome and
[00:56:04] Speaker C: the Democratic actual Tik Tok Stupid Shipping, like, edit make me cry.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: It was like Taylor Swift's new song from the her newest album, Life of a Showgirl. I forget which. Oh, the Fate of Ophelia.
It was Joe Biden.
[00:56:20] Speaker B: Just like a devastating song with, like, the most beautiful editing.
What's going on right now?
[00:56:28] Speaker A: It's just the funny. It's so unserious and so funny. But yeah. Yes. So apparently with Billy Steve Shipping.
In the essay the Queer Subtext of Stranger Things, the author writes that Billy's character becomes more nuanced when read through a queer lens.
[00:56:44] Speaker B: Pitches Love enemies to lovers too. Sorry.
[00:56:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:56:47] Speaker B: Just love enemies.
[00:56:49] Speaker A: It was that prolonged eye contact in the last episode.
[00:56:52] Speaker C: I feel like, hot take here. Love to the gay community. Love you guys so much. But I feel like sometimes we throw on that whole, like, this character is actually really complex. If you view them through the gay lens, it's like. But that doesn't mean that they're all of a sudden, like, even more layered. That just means that, like, maybe you're projecting a little bit onto them and making them like, I don't know. I just don't see him as a queer coded character.
[00:57:21] Speaker A: There's evidence for it in later episodes that we can't quite talk about at this point. But it. I. I kind of interesting what you're talking about. Tabs.
[00:57:30] Speaker C: I know.
[00:57:31] Speaker A: Leia, you and I have talked about. Talked with Tony about this, where Tony, one of his biggest, like, platforms. And I totally agree with where he's coming from on this. Where there tends to be this trend right now where people are having these takes about how anytime you see these super misogynistic men that they are actually just closeted.
[00:57:52] Speaker C: Maybe that's what I'm trying to say here. Thank you for saying that, Sarah. Because I think that sometimes when I'm special, specifically when I'm talking to a sibling, I assume that they know the nuances of what I'm trying to say. And then I half explain myself.
[00:58:03] Speaker A: All right,
[00:58:07] Speaker C: Guess what I'm trying to say. But yes, that's what I'm. That's what I'm trying to say. Like, I think that is a big pet peeve of mine. And I hate the whole, like, bully to lover trope. That is my least favorite thing ever. When I watch Sex Education, I was like, no, like, don't have them end up together because he's internalized misogyny about himself. And just like, I understand that that is a real thing that happens.
But yeah, I, I, it, well, it's,
[00:58:33] Speaker A: it's actually, it comes from a place of even almost homophobia in a lot of ways to say, oh, if a guy is being mean to women, it's because he really actually loves other men. Well, then you're putting an entire stereotype and not a good one on the queer community, especially gay men, and saying, yeah, oh, and I mean, it's, we see it perpetuated back in the 2000s with Larry in, in Buffy, where he was so mean to Xander and misogynistic and sexist towards and then changed completely once he accepted himself and was now the nicest guy. And it's like, sometimes there are people that are men and they're straight and they hate other women and they're competing with other men not because they're in love with men, but just because they're crappy guys. Yeah. And it's a symptom of the patriarchy along those lines.
[00:59:19] Speaker C: That's such a good point because I saw this girl on TikTok on this, like, really, like, beautiful, like, conversation about he do rivalry and what she loved about it and how there are no women that are hurt in the process. Process of them trying to figure out their sexuality. And like, there's a, like, a relationship that's kind of really, kind of quick, but then ends up like, being a really beautiful friendship between Hudson. And they have this whole conversation where she kind of, like, recognizes that he is gay, but he isn't willing to kind of, like, he hasn't come out yet. And she has a conversation where she's, like, asking him questions and it's like, really beautiful. And she's like, no, this is like, I, you know, I did theater growing up. I had gay boyfriends. Like, I, this, you're not hurting me by this. Whatever. And they had, like, a really beautiful conversation. They have, like, a really beautiful friendship that comes out of that. And, like, that tends to be kind of a thing that is also just kind of misogynistic in a lot of, like, gay media too, where a lot of women are kind of just being pawns.
[01:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:20] Speaker C: While men are trying to kind of figure out their sexuality and it's like they're kind of discarded and hurt along the process. And that's in a lot of, a lot of queer stories. And I, I was like, wow, like, that's, that's just one of the reasons why People like, love that show. It's just like, it's just beautiful all around.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: You know, it'll be interesting as we continue on, just watching Billy and stuff.
Like, just seeing where his story takes him and stuff. But I thought that was very interesting. I had no clue that there was such, like, seriously. A massive subset of the fandom that ships Steve and Billy together. They have a ship named. It's called Herring Grove.
And like, no way.
I mean, the quote goes on and talks about how fan communities have been quick to jump on the tension between Steve and Billy, whose ship postman to is Herring Grove. Following the Release of the 2nd season, multiple works of fan fiction pairing. The two appeared on fan fiction archiving site Archive of Our Own and on blogging platform Tumblr. A piece appeared in Cosmopolitan commenting on the popularity of the ship and gifts and sets, fan edits, playlists, fan mixes and fan art can be found on. Under the Herring Grove hashtag on Tumblr, where there are already a number of blogs dedicated to the pairing. And that was after season two.
[01:01:31] Speaker C: Poor Steve's just being thrown around all these ships and some of those pairings
[01:01:35] Speaker B: do not make any sense.
[01:01:36] Speaker A: We talked about how Steve is the Mary sue
[01:01:41] Speaker B: people latch onto a character and they just. I just feel like at a certain point they don't even care about the story that they're watching. It's like this character becomes their original character and they want to explore a bunch of which is. There's nothing wrong with it, to be honest. If that's how you want to enjoy a piece of media, go ahead and do that.
It's interesting because it becomes so massive.
It becomes like, oh, now there's a group of people that do this. Now there's a whole category of shippers that do this. And yeah, it's. I feel like. I don't know if this is like a recent thing because the Internet makes it so much easier for people to like, talk to each other about stuff like this.
[01:02:21] Speaker A: That's true.
[01:02:23] Speaker C: There have been a lot of, like, essays and video essays I've actually seen on like the huge, like 2010s and late 2000s, like, queer baiting with specifically men, friendships and like, shows that were really popular. And unlike, like, I don't know, there's something there with.
With this show. I'm like, I quite. I haven't quite found the. The through line. But I do find it interesting that.
[01:02:50] Speaker A: Well, I think. I think tabs. It. It goes to what we were just talking about earlier on in this conversation that when you get people to ship your characters. It keeps your fandom alive and it keeps viewers on the screen. And the best way to do that. And this has been going on since Buffy, angel and beyond. Say we still talk characters apart.
[01:03:10] Speaker B: Coffee.
[01:03:11] Speaker C: Right.
[01:03:12] Speaker A: You keep your kids, have them together because in their minds, it was a death to the show. It's a death sentence.
[01:03:18] Speaker C: You know which one that everyone. And I was really late to seeing it because I refused to be like, no, I don't. Guys, I don't see it. I don't see it. And then I rewatched a couple years ago. I was like, well, wait, maybe the shippers really had a point here. It was very clear. Coded is Merlin. Merlin. And yeah, I watched Merlin and Arthur.
Ah. Every episode they have this whole heart to heart where, like, Merlin says, I'm really wise and astute towards, you know, Arthur.
[01:03:45] Speaker A: Arthur.
[01:03:45] Speaker C: Arthur. Yeah. And I want to say Uther. I was like, no, Uther's the. The dad.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Like Arthur.
[01:03:50] Speaker C: Yeah. And like. And then Arthur looks at him, like, so intensely and it's just like, wow, Merlin, you are actually really great. And like, they have this like, intense intimacy and then they just. And then Arthur. Arthur's like, by the way, I'm so obsessed with Gwen.
[01:04:05] Speaker A: And you're like.
[01:04:06] Speaker B: You're like, what? Are you sure?
[01:04:08] Speaker C: But then also it's like, it's like the actual evidence of like the biggest tropes because Merlin never ends up in a relationship. Like, he kisses one girl, one episode, is chronically single, the entire time is his only efforts are to help Arthur is only Arthur the entire time for him. And like, they like, even. I mean, spoiler to the show. But like, Arthur, like, dies at the end and as he's dying, he's like, please help. I just. Just hold me as he's dying. And you're like.
[01:04:34] Speaker B: You're like, what?
[01:04:36] Speaker C: Is he going to confess?
[01:04:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say Supernatural, but also Sherlock. I mean, those three people, like, yeah, there was. And I mean, in the 2010s in particular, queer dating became massive.
[01:04:51] Speaker C: Mainly just like the main two lead men. Yep.
[01:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah, it was especially between.
[01:04:55] Speaker B: I mean, some people ship also Dean and Sam, who are the brothers. Yes.
[01:04:59] Speaker A: Don't even. I mean, the show actually makes fun of that too. There's an episode where Dean and Sam go into an alternate universe and end up finding fan fiction where they have with each other and they have to read it to each other and they're both like, it's so funny.
Anyway, okay, moving on.
So Nancy comes in, calls For Steve. They go to their usual place between the school buildings. Steve is very closed off and asks what she's doing there. She's confused and asks where he was that morning. She doesn't remember anything from the night before.
Steve's like, I figured Jonathan would take you. And when she asks what he's talking about, he scoffs and is like, you really can't handle your alcohol. She says she remembers the party spilling punch, him getting mad at her because of it, and then he took her home. He says, no, that was your other boyfriend. And when she says she doesn't understand, he says, she was just telling it like it is.
So Steve. And we end up finding out later, Steve asked Jonathan to take her home. So Steve didn't just abandon her. He had Jonathan.
[01:05:53] Speaker C: That makes me feel better because I'm like, yeah, I. I didn't remember that. That at all. And I'm. I didn't either, bro. Like, as. Like, a girl's been in situations like that. I'm like, he talked to Jonathan. If they just, like, left me there, even if I said the most horrible things, it's like, okay, I'm gonna leave my super knee braided girlfriend at a party, you know?
[01:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:06:11] Speaker C: But okay, that makes me bother.
[01:06:12] Speaker B: Steve's a good guy. Steve's a. Steve's a. Yeah, he's a good guy.
[01:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. He says, apparently, we killed Barb, and I don't care because I'm. And our whole relationship is. And pretty much everything is just, oh, yeah. And also, you don't love me. Nancy's like, was drunk. And he's like, okay, so tell me that you love me. Then she pauses for far too long, and he looks devastated. A teammate comes out, and he's like, harrington, we need you, man. He's, like, all sweaty. That douchebag's killing us.
[01:06:40] Speaker C: Let's go.
[01:06:41] Speaker A: Steve yells, all right. And then waits for Nancy, and she still can't see. Walk away, and it says, I think you're.
And then he walks away. The duffers say about this, they said they think that Nancy and Mike are both the most screwed up because they're the ones who both lost someone. They're both grappling with that, and we see the effects. So. All right, discuss thoughts on this scene.
[01:07:03] Speaker C: And I think, here's the thing. I love Steve, too. I'm not. I'm not blind to his faults. He has lots of faults. I think that he's very rightfully hurt in this situation.
I'm reframing a little bit from how what I Said in the beginning because I didn't realize he had talked to Jonathan. So.
[01:07:22] Speaker A: Okay, character development for you two tabs.
[01:07:25] Speaker B: I love it.
[01:07:25] Speaker A: Character development for you, too.
[01:07:28] Speaker C: No, but I think I'm just really protective over Nancy. Like, the misogyny I see about her online really just makes me so mad because it's not reciprocated towards, like, the flaws. The equal amount of flaws. On.
[01:07:41] Speaker B: Is it ever with female characters? Never. God, you never.
[01:07:46] Speaker C: This is the first time ever. And I was like, guys, wait. Women are really great nuanced. Like, maybe we should, like, hear them out. But anyway.
[01:07:53] Speaker A: But people often make characters like Nancy the prize for the male character they really like. And thief. Yeah. Okay. How.
[01:07:59] Speaker C: I can't say that, actually. Dang it.
[01:08:01] Speaker A: I know. We'll bring you back later.
[01:08:03] Speaker C: Don't worry.
[01:08:04] Speaker B: Don't worry.
[01:08:04] Speaker A: We'll bring you on.
[01:08:05] Speaker C: But no, I. I just, like, I really understand Nancy.
[01:08:10] Speaker B: Really.
[01:08:11] Speaker C: I just get her. I really do. Like, I. I honestly, like, there's a conversation.
Can't say that either.
[01:08:18] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:08:20] Speaker C: But, like, her kind of general arc is, like, kind of like, fight what you. Sarah was talking about, like, fighting against and figuring out, out, like, what her role is with the whole nuclear family route. And I really, really relate to that. Like, as a teen, I looked a lot, and how I presented myself, like, Nancy did the very goody two shoes, nice girl that, like, everyone expected to get married young and, like, whip out babies. And I think I surprised a lot of people. I remember people telling me that, like, out of all our siblings, I remember people telling me thinking I was going to be the one to get married, married first and have kids and, like, kind of going through that whole, like, okay, like, a little bit of an avoidant in, like, relationships. And I see a lot of that Nancy as well. But then also just having this, like, deep bond and then, like, really craving, you know, connection, but then also just, like, having a hard time with commitment. And it's like, I really relate to that. I really, really do. And so obviously, she isn't very thorough in her conversations. And I also sometimes in my conversations, and I just, like, I'm like, I really get her. Like, deep down, I really understand her. And so sometimes, like, I really just feel like it's unfair. A lot of the discussion people have about her, specifically about relationships, and I'm like, okay, if she was a real person and these supernatural things were not happening, sure, there's a lot of accountability that she needs to kind of, you know, own up to. But then also, it's It's a similar thing to how I feel about Cap Madness. Oh, my word. Like, it's less now, but in the 2000 and tens, people being like, why isn't she being honest up to Gail about stuff that's happening with Peter or Peter. I'm like, she's literally trying to survive.
[01:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:10:02] Speaker C: And like, her Persona with PETA is to survive. I really hate that sort of stuff where it's like the woman is kind of like the pawn between the two guys. And then.
[01:10:11] Speaker B: Well.
[01:10:11] Speaker A: And I think fandom often reduces the female characters to just the relationships. And we see that, like, Nancy being in a relationship with Steve or Jonathan is the most. Is the least interesting thing about her.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: Million percent, you know.
[01:10:23] Speaker A: And the same thing with Katniss. Like, they use just. They just like they do with every other love triangle, they use Galen PETA as a metaphor for representing different parts of what the path that Katniss is going to choose. Just like with Nancy. But I have so much compassion for Nancy in this moment because Nancy's just trying to figure out what it is she wants. I think there's a part of her that cares for Steve, but I think in her. In her conversation with Jonathan later on, Nancy herself was even fully aware of where she started on Steve. At this point, she knew something was off, but she wasn't quite sure.
[01:10:55] Speaker C: And I mean cruel. And I think people realize that.
[01:10:58] Speaker A: And I mean, like, the fact that she was drunk just meant she was more uninhibited. And I do think she did say things to Steve that were cruel and that were coming from a place that wasn't necessarily representing Steve himself. It was more of how she feels about the situation of the town. That's everybody around me.
[01:11:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:11:18] Speaker A: Doesn't seem to be caring that Barb is dead and seems to be just treating it as if we should move on with the status quo. And that's mostly what she's calling. Not necessarily Steve himself, but of course Steve's not going to see it that way. Steve sees it as I'm. Our relationship is and not seeing it for the deeper thing that it is. We've talked. We talked last episode, in the episode before tabs about how Steve, even though he's gone through a great arc so far in season one one, Steve's never been an outsider. And so in a lot of ways, he can't fully understand and relate to what Nancy and Steve or Nancy and Jonathan can. And he's also very privileged. And so there. And then he also wants that normal family life which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that's not what Nancy wants. And so at, from the very, from the get go, Steve and Nancy have just always been at odds and they just don't want quite the same thing. And so this moment, while painful, is actually the best thing for both of them because now they both know where they land.
[01:12:14] Speaker C: And I also think like, like Stephen and Nancy don't work in just the communication levels that have to make a relationship work in general. Like, I think Steve is more of like an anxious attachment. And then like Nancy is very.
[01:12:29] Speaker A: Been doing her reading.
[01:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:12:31] Speaker A: On a different attachment.
[01:12:33] Speaker C: But like, I like the way that they need to communicate with each other. Just does not work. But I. I also feel like he also also doesn't know how to like really listen. He just hears anxiety in his head about it. And so I think he really grows in that. But he doesn't know how to do that in a relationship with specifically Nancy. And Nancy doesn't know how to be confrontational unless, like stakes are literally out of 10. Then all of a sudden she can.
[01:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:01] Speaker C: So.
[01:13:02] Speaker A: Well, I think we've also seen Steve not really actively aware or seeing the pain that Nancy's going through. She's in there, Barb's bathroom, sobbing about Barb. Steve sees her leaving and it's just like, okay. And there's no conversation later up.
[01:13:19] Speaker C: At least he's in the wrong here. It's like they're both hurting and they both. Like, he means well in those moments, but like, he's also not like asking. And she's also not going to be the one to tell you, so.
[01:13:31] Speaker A: But he also wants again, he wants the family, the kids, all that stuff like that's hinted at in the first episode of the season. And Nancy's over there been very clear. She does not. And so we're like, oh, from the get go, this isn't gonna work out,
[01:13:43] Speaker B: you know, but yeah, I mean, this is not a surprising turn of events. I feel like we've been waiting for this. Like, we've been seeing he's a lot more into her than she is into him in like a romantic way, I think.
[01:13:55] Speaker A: Right.
[01:13:56] Speaker B: So it's. It just kind of sucks that Nancy had to come to that realization in such a.
A messy way. Not just for like, not, not in terms of Steve, but even for herself. Like, she had to kind of spiral and get really drunk and kind of, you know, lose like, like I said, spiral in order for her to. To realize, hey, maybe what I did say when I was Drunk that I thought I didn't mean. Maybe. I do mean that stuff actually, you know.
[01:14:25] Speaker A: So question for you guys. Did they break up in this episode? Episode or in the scene, Is that a breakup? Very highly.
[01:14:31] Speaker B: I don't know.
[01:14:32] Speaker C: Debated.
[01:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I know it's contested and debated, but we're gonna have to talk about it later on because things happen and I'm like, I don't. I didn't see this as a breakup. And I think one half of the party doesn't either.
[01:14:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I viewed it as like they both are aware that. And the next time they talk, it could lead to a breakup or could lead to a breakthrough. It's one of those like, okay, we're on a break without saying it and like this time we kind of have to figure out what it is that we want. That's what I viewed it as.
[01:15:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that for sure.
[01:15:06] Speaker A: All right, so back at the A.V. club, we see the kids looking at Dart. Dustin holds him up and is like, cute, right? Max is like confused, asking questions. The kids pass him around using words like slimy and booger. Mike's like, what is he? Dustin pulls out a stack of books, says he thought he was some sort of polywogger tadpole.
Talks about how only non aquatic pollywogs are in India and South America. How did one end up in his trash? Mike points out that it looks like something is moving inside of it.
When they move the light over to him, Dart moves away as it burned. Dustin soothes him and it's like, there you go. And everyone watches him like it's a little weird. He mentions that reptiles are typically cold blooded. But Dart doesn't seem to be like that, that he doesn't like the heat. Dustin's like, I've discovered a new species. Sees Will has flashbacks to when he barfed up that slug looking thing. And then he's like, oh no. And you could tell he's like putting two and two together. I'm like, will, your child.
He remembers the sounds all around him in the upside down, in the flashbacks that sound a lot like Dart. The bell rings. They all head into the hallway with Lucas suggesting that they show him to Mr. Clark. Dustin's afraid that Mr. Clark will steal his discovery. I was like, I don't think Mr. Clark is that kind of person. He says he's going to call it the new species Dustonius polywar August. He asks Max what she thinks and she says she thinks he's an idiot. And he's like, when I become rich and famous one day, don't come crawling back to me saying, oh, my gosh, Dustin, I'm so sorry for being mean to you for back in eighth grade. And then we see Will hanging back, looking worried.
And then at the store, Bob shows up with lunch, and he enjoys take it outside the store, where he talks about how fun last night was, apologizes for overstepping. Probably based on Jonathan's comments, conversations are
[01:16:44] Speaker C: not willing to Joyce. So well, yeah. I was like, wow. Like, excellent. A plus.
[01:16:51] Speaker B: That's a man. That's a man.
[01:16:54] Speaker A: And I love how Bob, with his nerdiness, working at Radio Shack and like, even this conversation, Bob is an outsider. He understands what it's like. He's basically like Dustin. Or I guess maybe not Dustin. Maybe more like Mike when Mike gets older.
And then he talks about how he really likes the boy. Is he. He says, I like you so much. Not just you, but everything that comes with you. Your family, your boys. I hope it's not wishful thinking, but I think I'm breaking through with them. And then he talks about the video camera, saying that it was a bit dinged up, which was so sweet. He handled it so graciously. And then says he saw on the tape that some boys were bullying him. Joyce, like, locks in and was like, who? The Zimmerman brothers? And he's like, I don't know.
She's like, I'm gonna hunt this down. I'm gonna kill them.
And then Bob looks at her affectionately. He's like, oh, you're so cute.
[01:17:43] Speaker C: And you're.
[01:17:44] Speaker A: What? Murderous?
[01:17:46] Speaker C: Well, because you can tell that, like, it's a little bit healing for him because the way he talks about his adolescence is, like, he probably was one who's targeted a lot like Will. And so I think he feels, like, very safe.
And I think, honestly, like, Joyce and Bob are very compatible. Like, seeing them together and like, like, their personalities, I'm like, that's really sweet.
[01:18:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, they are.
[01:18:10] Speaker A: It's interesting because Winona Ryder sees it differently. There's a quote from her. She says that. Yeah, she says about Joyce and Bob. She says she's trying to mask a lot, explains Ryder. I think she's made this choice with Bob because she wants a good father figure in her son.
[01:18:25] Speaker C: Interesting. I don't read it like that, but,
[01:18:26] Speaker A: I mean, I don't read it like that either.
[01:18:28] Speaker C: I don't know.
[01:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I, I. I think in my mind, I see Joyce is just being kind of distracted, but not necessarily because she doesn't like Bob. But because there's so many other.
[01:18:37] Speaker B: I think there's like, a lack of maybe passion.
Maybe, like, it's.
Her romance with Bob is very stable. Yeah, it's a very, like, you know, adult domestic, like, you know, I don't disagree that she likes him because he's good to her children, because I feel like that's a big part of her priorities as well. Do I think that she's, like, passionately in love with him?
Not necessarily.
[01:19:04] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think it's like a
[01:19:06] Speaker C: different typical relationship, you know?
[01:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's a different type of. I don't think that that, like, invalidates it. You know what I mean? Like, there's different types of. Like you said, different types of relationships. And I do think they work well together because I think Joyce needs stability.
She needs somebody who's dependable.
[01:19:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:19:24] Speaker B: She needs somebody who's gonna get along with her children and who's going to. To, like, be her partner and taking care of things, so.
[01:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
So this next shot of the lab is really interesting. There's actually a whole YouTube video, if anyone's interested in going and listening to it. It's the wizardry Behind Stranger Things 2, the Adobe Creative Cloud YouTube channel. And they have the official effects on artists talking about a lot of the stuff and shots that they did throughout the show. So There was about 2,000 visual effects shots in this season alone, which is a humongous jump from the first season, where it was pretty much all practical effects. And then the only visual effect shots they did were in the last episode when they had to actually do the Demogorgon, like, from the time that it's burnt, it's visual effects. So they had to assemble. The Duffers did a team of people for season two, because obviously, obviously, with Dart and all that stuff, we're going to have to start having more of that. And then obviously, the Shadow Monster. So they assembled about a team of 15 people for production. It was a husband wife team that were hired in August of 2016.
And they talk about the five stages of the Demogorgon, but one of the shots that they talked about was this one. I don't know if you guys remember, but it's a drone shot of the top of the lab. You're coming from, like, in the center of it, and you're slowly going back up, and you can see the top of the lab and then, like, the. The forest around it and the parking lots and stuff.
So they had to take a lot of stuff out of that because there was things on that roof that you wouldn't see in the 80s. There was also handicap parking spots and stuff like that. And they actually painted out portions of the shot on top, including this lab is technically in the middle of a college campus. And so when you see it around a forest, that's not actually where the lab is. So they had to add in all the forest around it. But then the fans that you see moving around the top of the lab, they had to paint it by hand. The. The fan spinning and everything.
It's actually wild.
So they said they had to Photoshop it into a forest in a field. And it was about 8 to 9,000 frames that they had to Photoshop each individual frame and paint out stuff and paint, put in the forests and put in all that stuff around. And that was just for, like, this shot and others like it, which is insane. So there's going to be more of that later on, but if you guys are interested, it was a very, very fascinating video. And I learned. I learned a lot of stuff. So. All right. We hear Hopper talking to Owens about his discovery and showing him the map, which Owens is like, oh, pretty drawings. And he says he doesn't understand what's happening and that it's impossible for the Upside down to be spreading. The last burn was two days ago, and then it's all contained. Nothing to worry about. Hopper's like, okay, well, I think there's a little leak. And he's like, convince me. Go to all these places and test every spot and see if anything comes up. Owns is like, you don't give me orders. And Hopper's like, we have a deal. I keep things nice and quiet for you. You keep your stuff out of my town. I've done my part. You do yours. So then back at the school, Jonathan, Nancy are having lunch in the parking lot. And Nancy's like, so, you know, ask for verification about Steve asking to take her home. Jonathan treats us really well. He doesn't rat Steve out. He doesn't blame Steve. He says, no, John. Like, Steve was worried for you. He asked me to take you back. Back. Like, I really appreciate the way Jonathan's
[01:22:46] Speaker C: going about trying to swoop in here.
[01:22:49] Speaker A: Exactly. He also tells Nancy that she's being hard on herself and that sometimes people say stupid things they don't mean when they're wasted. Nancy's like, well, I think maybe I might have meant it. I've been trying to pretend everything's fine, but it's not. I feel like there's this. And then Jonathan's like this weight you're carrying around so they can obviously bond. They both know what it's like to have lost someone and that realizing that life's not going to go back to normal, that will is not going to necessarily be the same.
And then Nancy's like, doesn't it make you mad that those people who did this ruined lives and just got away with this? And Jonathan's like, yes, but the people who did this are dead. And Nancy says, do you really believe that? And then she sees a kid listening to a radio and gets an idea and is like, bob works at Radio Shack, Right? Do you want to skip fourth period? The Ghost in you is the song that's playing at the beginning of this scene with Jonathan, Nancy, while they're talking.
Um, so the speaker is addressing an internal force, a lingering memory or motion that refuses to disappear even as external events shift and distort so very much foreshadowing what Nancy is going through. And then the song that plays when the radio turns on is clean cut American Kid. And it's a punk rock band, specifically one called Nardcore. Nardcore is a hardcore punk movement that essentially is a mashup of Oxnard and hardcore because it's based from Oxnard, California.
And punk is very anti establishment. Lots of political and social. Societal critiques and challenging societal norms. So this song is kind of hinting at Nancy's going against the government and all that stuff, which I thought was kind of cool.
All right. Elle's enjoying her day of freedom. Walking through the woods. She comes up to a mom pushing her kid on a swing in the backyard. Elle watches longingly. She has a flashback of Hopper reading a passage from Anne of Green Gables. The passage is so, so sweet. I would feel so sad if I thought I was a disappointment to her because she didn't live very long after that. You see, she died of a fever when I was just three months old. I do wish she'd lived long enough for me to remember calling her mother. I think it would be so sweet to say such a good like.
[01:24:48] Speaker C: Like parallel to. Yeah, El's. El's little feelings and feeling.
[01:24:53] Speaker A: It's the same book Hopper was reading to Sarah and the. The hospital too.
[01:24:57] Speaker C: I didn't know that.
[01:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
Freaking love Anakin Gables in the.
In the script. I don't know if it's in the movie, in there, in the episode. There's a box next to his where he's reading and it's marked Sarah. So he pulled out one of Sarah's books. And he had read it to her in the hospital, but yeah. So. Ls asking about her mother. Hopper says that her mother is no longer around. And we just see L tearing up and it's just. And then he continues to read. He says, what to do with me. You see, nobody wanted me. Even then, it seems to be my fate.
Oh, it's so sad. It's so sad. So then Elle snaps out of her flashback. She sees the mother now standing in front of her, asking where her mom is. Elle ends up spinning the. The playset swing around after the lady gives her directions to the school so that she can get out of there. And you can tell the lady is very, like, sketched out. So then at the buyer's house, Joyce has the video camera now and is trying to figure out how to play the tiny vhsc.
And then she calls Bob, who gives her directions and is trying to, like, plan for that night. And then she hangs up. And I kind of feel a little bad for him. And then we see Joyce watching the events of the night until she gets to the moment where Will is yelling for Mike. And then she sees something up into the sky and then ends up making a trip trace of the outline on the tv, sees that it's that giant spider like creature, and compares it to Will's drawing from earlier. And it's a match.
[01:26:23] Speaker B: Oops.
[01:26:24] Speaker A: Yeah, whoops. So then back at the school, Mike tries to grab Will to go with the others to show Mr. Clark the dart. And Will's like, hey, I think that dart's actually that booger I threw up earlier. In the classroom, Dustin has dart in his battery pack, and he and Lucas and Max are about to open it and show Mr. Clark. And Dustin's like, let's clarify. This is my discovery, not yours. Mr. Clark's like, okay.
[01:26:48] Speaker B: He's like, girl, I don't care.
[01:26:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:26:50] Speaker A: He's like, this. It really probably is not that big of a deal. Doesn't. But he's too nice to say that.
So then Mike and Will burst in. Mike's like, sorry, it's just a stupid prank. Grabs the battery pack and, like, screams at Dustin that they need to go right now. Mr. Clark's like, just another day in paradise. Just middle school boys just screaming at each other.
And then outside the school, Billy and a girl are waiting at the car. And the girl's like, so, is your sister coming? And Bill's like, screw it. She can skateboard home. And says, don't call her my sister. She's not. And we're like, wait, what?
[01:27:21] Speaker C: What?
[01:27:22] Speaker A: So then they race off, and then back at the A.V. club, Max is left out of the A.V. club room, banging on it as the boys confer on the inside. Okay. I just have to say, I relate so much with being left out. I was Max left out all the boys stuff. Banging on. Banging on the door, trying to be let in.
[01:27:39] Speaker C: It's the worst.
Sarah and Max have a connection. Me and Leia, we do have a connection.
[01:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:27:46] Speaker C: Who's your connection, Leia?
[01:27:47] Speaker B: Dustin.
[01:27:48] Speaker C: Dustin.
[01:27:48] Speaker B: Dustin.
[01:27:50] Speaker C: I can see that. I can see that unwavering confidence.
[01:27:56] Speaker B: I ship myself with Hopper because that's my type.
[01:27:59] Speaker A: Type, yes.
[01:27:59] Speaker C: Leia wants Hopper.
[01:28:01] Speaker B: I love me a Hopper type.
[01:28:03] Speaker C: Nice.
That's my type.
[01:28:08] Speaker A: So Mike and Will tell Dustin Lucas about Will having seen something that looks like Dart last year. Dustin isn't sure, thinks it's a coincidence. Mike says that it's possible that Will has acquired true, true sight. I was like, wow, this is quite a jump. An ability to see into the ethereal plane. I was like, okay, we're going from.
[01:28:24] Speaker B: I love how Michael just says these crazy things. Like, he just says things, and they're like, yeah, that's true.
[01:28:30] Speaker A: Well, the crazy thing, too, is, you know that if they're having Mike say it, that that means that's actually what's happening. So I'm like, okay.
And then they're like, maybe his episodes aren't real. He can actually see into the Upside Down. Lucas wants to take Dart to Hopper, and Dustin is afraid that Dart would be as good as dead if he went to Hopper. Mike's like, maybe he should be dead. And Dustin's like, how can you say that? Mike's like, how can you not? He's from the Upside Down. It's very funny because it feels like a playoff season, one where Mike wants l to be a part of the group, but then Lucas is, like, not wanting him to. This is. This is Dustin's girlfriend he's trying to bring into the group.
Mike's like, maybe he should be dead. And he's like, he's from the Upside Down. Dustin says, he might be, but that doesn't automatically mean that he's bad. And Mike's like, that's like saying that just because someone's from the Death Star doesn't make them bad. And Dustin's like, we have a bond. Mike's like, a bond.
[01:29:21] Speaker C: So you guys don't know him like, I do. Yeah.
[01:29:24] Speaker A: He's not like other Bali Logs. Yeah, he.
[01:29:27] Speaker C: Him and I have.
[01:29:27] Speaker A: He's not like, Other boogers.
[01:29:28] Speaker C: You see him when no one's around. He's so nice to me.
[01:29:34] Speaker A: He always screeches like a demogorgon because he wants.
[01:29:36] Speaker C: We have an understanding. I. I rub his paw when he's mad, and then he.
[01:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I calm him down. Only I can calm him down.
[01:29:44] Speaker C: Look, we just. Isn't you.
[01:29:46] Speaker A: Yeah. This isn't you. This isn't you, Dart.
[01:29:49] Speaker C: You don't eat people.
[01:29:52] Speaker A: Dustin says no, he trusts me. Lucas is like, he trusts you. Dustin starts to explain that he promised he would take care of him. Dart screeches, the box shakes. They let him out. Mike grabs a microphone to smash him. And then we see that he sprouts two more legs. Mike goes for the smash. And Dustin stops him. Scares Dart, who takes off running past a startled Max, who is Pick, who has picked the lock and is coming in. That's my girl. The boys take off after him. They all stumble over Max. Max, who's still asking questions. Then they split up. Dustin screaming, don't hurt him. Don't. You heard him. Everyone's like, calm down.
[01:30:27] Speaker B: It's like it's his son or something.
[01:30:29] Speaker A: This is giving. Obsessed.
[01:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
Like Ellen. Mike just.
Is that meme where they're just like. The two figures are, like, holding aliens
[01:30:39] Speaker A: like this, and they're like this, literally.
[01:30:42] Speaker C: Dustin's girlfriend. Foreheads.
[01:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Like those two kids in high school that would just sit in the middle of, like, the foyer and just wrap their arms around each other at all times and somehow they, like, end up getting married and they're still together to this day.
[01:30:58] Speaker C: Yep. The theme park couple.
[01:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:31:01] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[01:31:03] Speaker A: Everybody had that in high school or in college. That one couple that was basically.
[01:31:06] Speaker C: But they never ended up getting married, though I had several of those.
No, they broke.
[01:31:10] Speaker B: They're still together.
Mine's. Mine are still together.
Two children.
He's a vet. She's. She was a nurse.
[01:31:18] Speaker A: Do they have friends?
[01:31:19] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm surprised. Usually those couples don't. It's like they're only friends.
[01:31:23] Speaker B: It was from, like, grade nine. From, like, from freshman year of high school. From the first day, they were.
[01:31:30] Speaker C: Wow. They were just codependent ones. Never end up lasting.
[01:31:34] Speaker B: Yeah. No, they're. They're still kicking.
[01:31:37] Speaker C: Interesting. Good for them, I guess.
[01:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Didn't break up ever. Like, they were together the entire.
[01:31:43] Speaker C: I guess.
[01:31:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:31:44] Speaker A: Drama bot.
[01:31:45] Speaker C: Just kidding. Oh, my God.
[01:31:47] Speaker A: They're probably healthy, happy. Me saying that I've been with Andrew since we were 18, so Sarah's like,
[01:31:53] Speaker B: what, this is like 13?
[01:31:57] Speaker A: That is so Unusual. That's so.
[01:31:59] Speaker C: That is very, very, like, uncommon. Yeah.
[01:32:01] Speaker B: And there's no like age gap or anything. Like they're the same age.
[01:32:05] Speaker C: Wow.
[01:32:06] Speaker B: They're in the same grade. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:32:08] Speaker A: They never went through the trauma the rest of us did. A couple crappy boyfriends. Real relationship relationships.
[01:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:13] Speaker A: They're probably healthier than all of us, to be honest.
So then at the Wheeler's house, Jonathan, Nancy try to get past Karen. Okay. Did it. Was it just me or did Karen seem a little buzzed? Like she sets down the wine glass.
[01:32:26] Speaker C: They hint at it for several years that she is heavy on the line. For sure.
[01:32:30] Speaker A: Yeah. She's a little out of it.
[01:32:32] Speaker B: This good for my girl Karen. She deserves.
[01:32:35] Speaker C: Leia isn't.
[01:32:36] Speaker B: She deserves to take an L sometime sometimes. She's always on top of everything. It's fine. Let her have a few bottles of wine. I'm thinking glasses and I'm like, bottles.
[01:32:46] Speaker C: Also, like, with the marriage that they kind of hint at that she has and like.
[01:32:50] Speaker A: Oh. She's like,
[01:32:53] Speaker C: for real? For real. Ever.
Yeah.
[01:32:58] Speaker A: Who wants Ted Ever dinner gonna be ready.
[01:33:08] Speaker B: Where are the children?
[01:33:10] Speaker A: What I do.
[01:33:12] Speaker C: He's like, how long are these kids gonna be here? Are we really gonna keep feeding them?
[01:33:16] Speaker A: And Karen's like, yep,
[01:33:19] Speaker C: I love her for that. She's like, these are my children too. Because, you know, Karen is like also just so lonely. I just know that about her. Yeah. And one thing I do appreciate about her character, the re watches I've had. She really knows her kids. I really do appreciate that. She's like, she knows when there something's wrong. Like I usually hate when, like when Nancy, you know, you know, bangs Steve and then they have the whole like, you seem different conversation with the mom. I really usually hate that.
[01:33:47] Speaker A: But she's also picking up on cues that she's got all night. She's mentioned and she's wearing his sweatshirt. Like that's not just you have a know about you.
[01:33:55] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like you're not a fridge anymore. And I can tell it's like smell it on you. Yeah.
That conversation is. It's supposed to be multi layered so that one gets a pass from me. But also like, Karen knows her kids really well, which I really appreciate.
[01:34:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Which is unusual for the natie's mom.
[01:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:34:14] Speaker A: So then they head upstairs after telling her they have to really study for a test. And you could tell Karen really likes Jonathan. I think it's really cute. Every time he comes in, she's always like, jonathan, say hi to your Mom,
[01:34:25] Speaker C: I think she really loves the. The buyers.
[01:34:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think she does too.
So Nancy dials Mrs. Holland, says that she needs to tell her something about Barb, but that. But that she can't tell her over the phone to meet her at the park at a certain time. Then we see the agents in suits listening in on the call. And Nancy knows their house has been bugged. So this is planned.
And the music right now is called Spiked Bat. It's the same song that played when Nancy and Jonathan were prepping for the Demogorgon in the season one finale. So this is giving very much. Okay. Nancy and John Jonathan are teaming up again. We see the scientists taking samples at the farms and hazmat suits while Owens and Hopper watch. Owen's still down playing it all, saying they'll run the samples. Hopper keeps the area clear for them for a day or two. And then as he. Owens gets in the car, Powell radios over and is like, hey, Chief, remember that Russian girl Murray was going on about the other day? Hopper instantly looks at Owens getting to his car and is like, yeah. Powell's like, hey, I'm thinking he's not so crazy. And we see that he's interviewing that mom that L had talked about to. Hopper instantly goes into panic mode, tells them to stay, not move, and then takes off. Owens watches him at the school. L arrives and sees Mike's bike, touches it really reverently. And I'm like, girl, he's right there. Just go actually talk to him. You don't need to stroke his bike.
[01:35:41] Speaker B: What's going on?
[01:35:42] Speaker C: If you're gonna, like, escape from your little cocoon and then go out looking for him, out of everyone, Mike is going to be the one to not tell anyone. One he would absolutely keep you secret. Absolutely.
[01:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:35:55] Speaker C: He'd be like, hell, yeah, I'll get my girlfriend. No one will know. Sure.
[01:36:01] Speaker A: Very true, very true. Then we see Mike roaming the halls looking for dart, radioing the others. All the guys are just looking for dart. L passes by, sees Mike, just misses him. And then we have Lucas jump, kicking a door and startling a teacher. He thinks he's a player, closes the door. So funny. That would than me as a kid, like, yeah. And then you're like, oh, someone's in here.
[01:36:22] Speaker C: She's just so unproblematic. And just like, I love. I love Lucas.
[01:36:27] Speaker A: He seems like an adult in a child's body sometimes, but then every once in a while, that kid of him comes out and you're like, oh, there he is.
So in the gym Mike ends up seeing the door to the locker room swinging, heads in and finds Max, and she's searching with her skateboard. She's like, why do you hate me so much? He says he doesn't, but he doesn't want her in the party because she's annoying and also because they don't need another party member. I'm like, Mike, I'm the paladin. Will's the cleric, Dustin's the bard, Lucas is the ranger, and Ella's the mage. Max is like, who's Elle? Mike's like, oh, she's a friend. She moved away. And then. And then Max follows him on skateboard and is asking questions as she's like, skateboarding around him inside of the gym. She says, I can be a part of your group. I can be your zoomer. Just an. Elle hears them talking and looks in to see Max smiling at Mike and she's like, not my boyfriend. God uses her powers to heal and thinks I'm dead.
[01:37:16] Speaker C: He can't date anyone else.
He's cheating on me, even though he thinks I'm literally six feet under.
[01:37:24] Speaker A: Like, what?
[01:37:26] Speaker C: She must die.
[01:37:27] Speaker B: Of course I didn't remember that this happened. And I was like, of course. She's gonna pull up at the exact moment when Mike starts to warm up to Max and gives her a little smile.
And then she's going to his faithful stuff.
[01:37:42] Speaker A: Faithful to your. Your long dead memory. Don't worry.
[01:37:44] Speaker B: Mike literally has a one track mind and it just. It's just ll like 24 7.
[01:37:52] Speaker A: It's like, Joyce, Will, Will, Will, Will.
[01:37:54] Speaker C: Literally.
[01:37:55] Speaker B: I'm like, mike, just have one other thought. I'm begging you.
[01:38:02] Speaker A: So true.
The music that plays when Elle sees the Max smiling at Mike is the kids 2 theme that played when she got accepted into the group in the bathtub episode after the van flip. And like, Lucas embraces her. So it's supposed to be that moment where she's like, oh, like my family. And then, oh, no, Max is taking my place, essentially, which. It's like, girl. There can be more than one girl
[01:38:22] Speaker B: in the friend group.
[01:38:24] Speaker C: She took the one girl slot in the friend group.
[01:38:29] Speaker A: No other girls can be a part of the group.
[01:38:34] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh.
[01:38:35] Speaker B: Like, who's making up these rules?
[01:38:37] Speaker C: Will
[01:38:39] Speaker B: not Max.
[01:38:41] Speaker C: Yeah, Mike. Hello. He's like, only one girl. And I get to date.
[01:38:45] Speaker B: I get to pick her.
[01:38:51] Speaker C: And the girls have to be attracted to me. Only I can.
[01:38:56] Speaker A: Yeah, literally.
[01:38:58] Speaker C: Oh, the.
[01:38:59] Speaker A: That's the thing. My is acting so hypocritically. I know. He is trauma So I give him grace. But also, he worked so hard to get l ingratiated with the group in the last season, and now he's over there like nobody else gave me.
[01:39:10] Speaker B: Brother.
Why is nobody talking about the fact that last season was just like a week?
[01:39:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it was six days. It was like six days total
[01:39:20] Speaker B: to 1 million.
[01:39:21] Speaker C: Their love is so strong, you guys.
[01:39:23] Speaker B: I know that's.
They're 11.
What?
[01:39:30] Speaker C: Like, they talked about being in. Was it sixth grade or something? Yeah, eighth grade.
[01:39:35] Speaker A: They're in eighth grade now.
[01:39:36] Speaker C: Yeah, they. They mentioned eighth grade.
[01:39:38] Speaker B: And I was like.
[01:39:38] Speaker C: So I'm supposed to believe season four, they're supposed to be freshmen.
[01:39:41] Speaker A: Got it.
[01:39:41] Speaker C: Not realize it was one year in between season two and season four. Got it. Okay.
[01:39:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Because season three is all the summer this summer.
[01:39:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:39:52] Speaker A: While.
Anyway, back at the Byers, Joyce is trying to get a hold of Will school. This cracks me up. She calls the school and the secretaries all give each other a look like.
[01:39:59] Speaker B: Like this girl again.
[01:40:02] Speaker A: So she ends up racing to the school, and then Will finds Dart in the bathroom and then kind of has like a panic attack and then ends up racing away and then hearing the shadow monster chasing him all throughout the school. I think it's been so interesting how they've shown the shadow monster and in Will's home at the arcade out in his neighborhood and now to school. Like, it's taking over every bit of his safe spaces.
So he ends up outside in the bathroom. Dustin finds Dart and ends up ratatouing him, puts him on his head and then puts the hat over him. He's like, stay quiet. I'm like, okay. Then the boys race in. They asked where Dart is. He's like, I don't know. They're like, where's Will? And in the field, in the upside down. Will just keeps running. And then he hears Bob's words from earlier, talking about standing his ground. So then he gathers himself, turns to face the shadow and is like, go away.
Keeps yelling and screaming it over and over again.
And then the monster just gets closer.
[01:41:02] Speaker C: Get out of here, kid. K. Get away from her.
I don't want to hear any more. Kid.
Nobody wants you here.
[01:41:17] Speaker B: How has nobody ever made this meme?
[01:41:20] Speaker C: Leia, that's you.
[01:41:21] Speaker A: You need to do that for this one.
[01:41:24] Speaker C: Make it.
[01:41:24] Speaker A: That'd be so funny.
[01:41:28] Speaker C: Like, trying to get the horse away. It's like in a Black Stallion or whatever the movie is.
[01:41:33] Speaker B: Black Beauty.
[01:41:33] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And then also the bears and I. The bears and I said, go away.
He's in the Boat.
Yeah, well, that doesn't work. So. So thanks. Thanks, Bob.
[01:41:46] Speaker B: That was so sinister the way they kept cutting back and forth. Like the.
Him getting taken over by the Shadow and like Bob being like easy peasy, wholesome, endearing little speech about standing up to your bullies or whatever.
[01:42:01] Speaker C: I'm like joking or whatever. But I really do feel very maternal over young Will. I'm like the poor baby, like just guys all the time. And it's like being bullied in real life and then like the other paranormal world.
[01:42:16] Speaker B: And then he's getting bullied by the Upside Down.
[01:42:19] Speaker C: Yes.
Yeah.
[01:42:22] Speaker A: He's getting it from all sides over there.
[01:42:25] Speaker C: Giving him advice.
[01:42:26] Speaker A: That does not work at all.
[01:42:27] Speaker C: His dad abandoned him when he was little. Like, his brother barely paid attention to him. His mom didn't really like, even Jonathan
[01:42:34] Speaker A: is a good brother. Jonathan.
[01:42:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Joyce literally has a one track mind too.
[01:42:41] Speaker C: I'm talking about.
But. But canonically they didn't really pay attention to him before he went missing. That's been like a thing where they like for hours. Yeah. And so I'm just like, poor Will. He gets like violated by the mist in this episode. I'm like, poor thing. Like, oh, I just feel so bad for him.
[01:42:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:43:00] Speaker B: I'm fucking dead though. At using. He's getting bullied from all sides. He's getting bullied.
[01:43:04] Speaker A: Bullied by humans.
[01:43:06] Speaker B: He's getting bullied by the Upside down, by the Mist, by the Demogorgon.
[01:43:12] Speaker C: And then on top of this, his homeboy is like, look at this little like frog sl looking thing.
[01:43:18] Speaker A: Dustin's co opting, I think like Will mated himself. Actually.
[01:43:22] Speaker C: That actually came from me at my Java. Will mate it and you're bonding with it.
[01:43:30] Speaker B: Jail.
[01:43:33] Speaker A: Well, the hilarious thing is that we have Dustin bonding with Dart. We have Max and Lucas. We have Mike and Elle and Will. Will has the Shadow.
[01:43:40] Speaker C: Will and the Shadow monster bonding.
[01:43:43] Speaker B: Well, he tried to bond with what's his face?
[01:43:46] Speaker C: Bob.
[01:43:46] Speaker B: He tried Bob. But that was like the worst. Like, if Bob hadn't given Will that advice, Will probably would have ran away, which would have saved him from whatever's
[01:43:55] Speaker C: happening right now, all of this. And then he's like, oh, that little snot thing I threw up in the sink. Is now besties with Dustin. I want to kill myself.
[01:44:04] Speaker A: Don't worry, your spot's already been taken in the group, Will.
[01:44:08] Speaker C: He's like, what do you mean? That's the new girl in the group, the little snot monster.
And I can't tell anyone because that's embarrassing. What do I say, I threw this up.
[01:44:22] Speaker B: Will has definitely got it rough, honestly.
And that was getting even worse, I
[01:44:27] Speaker C: guess he's like, of course. And now the statement like, go away.
[01:44:34] Speaker B: Go away.
[01:44:43] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:44:44] Speaker A: Oh, my tummy hurts.
Oh, that's so funny.
[01:44:49] Speaker C: Okay.
[01:44:50] Speaker A: Anyway, well, I don't know where to go from that. That's the end of the episode, but the end of the episod.
[01:44:59] Speaker B: Well, come back next week. We find out what this. What Mist and Will connection there is. Maybe that's gonna be the new ship. I don't know.
[01:45:08] Speaker C: The new ship he was obsessed with.
[01:45:13] Speaker B: Yeah, whatever. This mist thing is true.
[01:45:17] Speaker A: Enemies to lovers.
[01:45:17] Speaker B: Enemies to lovers. One million percent.
[01:45:22] Speaker A: Oh, man. All right, well, thanks for joining us, Tabs. This was very, very fun. You definitely brought a unique spin.
[01:45:30] Speaker C: Thank you.
They're all going through the worst trauma of their life. Yeah. Did you. But did you tell to get. No, you didn't. So it didn't leave to get out of here?
[01:45:41] Speaker B: It's because he didn't cock his fist. That's why.
[01:45:43] Speaker C: And smack it on the butt to have it run away? Yeah.
[01:45:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:45:46] Speaker C: They didn't spirit it. Yeah.
[01:45:48] Speaker B: It's his fault, actually.
[01:45:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:45:51] Speaker C: These are all jokes, guys. Just a joke.
[01:45:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:45:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Guys, please, not.
[01:45:55] Speaker C: Not.
[01:45:56] Speaker B: Please don't cancel us.
[01:45:57] Speaker C: Literally.
[01:46:01] Speaker A: No, but, Tabs, thanks for joining us, and you'll have to let us know what episode you want to come back in for Season three. Season three, Tabs.
[01:46:09] Speaker B: Hey, thanks for coming.
[01:46:10] Speaker C: Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, of course.
[01:46:13] Speaker A: And thank you, listeners. Let us know your thoughts about all the different relationship dynamics that are emerging from the. The group.
Let us know what you think about Steve and Nancy's conversation. Do you guys think Steve and Nancy broke up in this episode? What do you guys think about the whole Billy and Steve shipping wars? Yeah, we talked about a lot. So thanks for listening, and we will talk to you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast, and you can continue to email
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