[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Are you okay? Leah?
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Just burned my throat all the way down.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Can't talk at all.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Just all the way down.
Felt like I peed a little, too.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Welcome to the podcast, guys, If Leia doesn't talk, it's beautiful because she burned her throat and esophagus with, I'm assuming, hot coffee or hot tea.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Tea. Hot tea.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: The opposite of soothing.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Spearmint.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Oh, that's even worse. So now your mouth is on fire,
[00:01:14] Speaker B: and it's already spicy.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Leia's ready to, you know, spit some hot. Takes literally.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: I'm just having some tummy issues, so I have to drink some spearmint tea.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: We have Naj here, by the way.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: Oh, hey, everyone.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: I do this every time. Guys, we have Naj here, and we're doing season one, chapter four, will the Wise, and this is Investigating Stranger Things. Okay. I did that in complete reverse order, but Naj, welcome. We are so happy to have you here. When was the last time you came on Investigating? Do you even remember?
[00:01:47] Speaker C: I don't like, season three. Was it season three?
Right.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Season three or season four?
[00:01:54] Speaker C: I think he came on for Faith
[00:01:56] Speaker B: episode in season four.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like, okay, what if I thought it was, like, the last episode, like, Conor or something like that, but it was because he was in Season 4 as well, and he got housed by Faith, so, yeah, I was always seated for that.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a while.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: It's been a while. It's been, like, maybe a year or two.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. But when we were going down our guest list, both Leia and I, like, separately, would come to each other and be like, we have to make sure we have Naj on. We have to make sure we have Naj because we both miss you. But also, it's. I'm, like, very curious on your thoughts for Stranger Things. So that means you have to come back each season and tell us what's going on.
But I want to know what you're doing. Charmed right now, or is there any other show that you are currently covering over on YouTube?
[00:02:44] Speaker C: I've been covering Revenge. It's like a. I think I love Revenge. Yes. I'm almost done. It.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: So good.
[00:02:50] Speaker C: It's. It's good every other episode. It's like, you just get. You get amped up because, like, kind of like a soap opera. You're just like, how messy can you get, Emily? But now we're obviously like on the Victoria, her final battle.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: I love Victoria. She's juicy.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: She's an amazing villain for me. Like, I love her. I love her more than like, like how Conrad is like a villain. I feel like she's more intriguing because you can kind of see the reason why she led that. She went down that path.
And then obviously Teen Wolf is almost done.
That's a season.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Thank God.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: That is a season.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: That's a television show.
[00:03:28] Speaker C: That is a series. It's kind of crazy because like when, when the last season of Teen Wolf was out, I was in like high school and I remember like every day, like in the morning everybody would talk about these episodes and I'm just like, oh, this must be hyped. And then I'm watching it now as an adult and I'm just like, this is actually ridiculous.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Speaking of soap opera.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Yeah, really?
Cuz like the final season is about them finally going against hunters. I'm just like, that's fine to like come full circle, but the premise is just. Just not making no sense. So. Yeah.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Sounds like Buffy season seven.
[00:03:59] Speaker C: Yes. A lot of shows final seasons are ending bad. Clearly. Perfect timing. The boys, so. The boys. Yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:04:07] Speaker C: Just ridiculous.
Having spin offs for no reason.
Love to see that.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: More money, money, money, money.
[00:04:16] Speaker C: I feel like if when shows drag too much, it just. You can tell the drags too much. And then, and then when this, when then the final season comes out, then everybody's like, oh, this was mid two seasons ago. Oh, now it wasn't it two seasons ago.
Not when it was just on last week.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, last week.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: I forget who it was. Was it Tim, my near who said he thinks shows should only have five seasons max? And I.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: They should.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: And even then the boys should end it at the season three. So actually that's.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, there are a lot of shows. It's either three or five. Like I feel like four is always kind of usually a weak because it's a transition season between them realizing, oh, the show is not as good anymore, we need to end it. But I've never.
I know someone's gonna like throw something at me, but I've never ever watched a show that went over five seasons that was good. Like ended just. Or I should say that ended just as strong. That's what I should say. And it just as strong as it is when started because obviously Buffy had seven seasons and I enjoy aspects of them, but it Definitely was not as good as it was in the early seasons, but yeah.
All right, well, let's talk about Stranger things.
We are doing Will the Wise. So the fake title for this one was the Palace.
And when the real title was revealed along with all the other titles on October 9, 2017, the image representing the episode was the Shadow Monster. And Will's drawing of it, which, you know, gives people a really great idea for what's happening.
This episode is written by Paul Dichter and directed by Shawn Levy.
So obviously the title Will the Wise is the name of the wizard character played by Will Byers in the Boys Dungeons and Dragons campaigns. So what did you guys think of this episode?
[00:05:53] Speaker C: Beautiful. Amazing.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: 10 out of 10 stars.
[00:05:57] Speaker C: Yes. It's crazy because I haven't watched season two of Stranger Things since it came out. Like, that was like, what, 2017, 2018. So, yeah, off the rip. Like, I. This was the first episode I watched in years, and I automatically remember what happened because of how amazing season two storyline was, at least to me.
But I'm also biased because season two is my favorite season. So when I watched it, like, off the rip, it's just. It's. It's tense and just impactful and just so much stuff off the rip that, like, there's no peace. Like, you know how you can see that they're trying to, like, maneuver and try to, like, drag stuff out. They had so much material to put in 47 minutes that I just could not take my eyes away to where when I got done rewatching it, it was done like, everybody had a storyline. It didn't feel like nobody was out of place.
You can kind of see, like, compared to season one, like, different characters having, like, different emotional struggles. Like, even Steve and, like, you know, him and Nancy and then Jonathan and Nancy and Will. Because once again, season one, you didn't have Will that much. And so you're watching Will, like, adapt to the changes in his life. And, you know, with Joy's also trying to figure out, how can she be there for her son. It was interesting to watch. And then you have Max, because once again, she's a new character. So a lot of people I love, she's my favorite character.
So her and Lucas, of course. So when you're watching it, you're like, who is this girl? How can she be introduced? Because when I first watched Stranger Things, it was like, when season one was out, so I remember the promo, and I was like, oh, who's this new girl? Like, she can't try to replace Elle at that time. And so you're watching her and how she's getting, you know, brought into the fold and how like they're not trying to replace Elle, but like she's now being brought into this storyline and it's just so. It just feels so organic to me. So when I was watching, I was just like, oh, this is just. This is just peak stranger things. Like there's nothing I wouldn't change or complain about, period.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought this episode was really good. I thought it was really satisfying because I feel like the last three episodes have been very much like, like a day in the life type of thing. Like obviously this has been building, but I feel like the last three episodes have been like a lot slower and you know, the gang trying to get back to their normal and then things starting to deteriorate. And like this episode is really like, I think taking off the premise of the season, obviously whatever happened to Will last episode is not a good thing. I think we can assume. And yeah, I don't know, I thought this episode was like spooky. Like the. Just the way they directed it and shot very much gave like a horror vibe and I really like that.
I thought the actor that plays Will did a really good job, which is so funny because having just watched season five, it's just like such a difference.
I feel like a lot of actors, like as they've gotten older, their acting has changed, obviously, but there's just like such a.
They're acting when they're like this little is so good.
I think, I think this is something
[00:08:58] Speaker A: I've thought a lot, a lot about. And I was actually just talking with Andrew about because I was like, wow, why is it that sometimes, like everyone knows the adjustment from child actor to adult actor is really difficult and not every child actor makes it for many, many different reasons. Obviously being a child actor in the industry has got to be insane and it's toxic and not always great. But I really think that something happens when you hit puberty where you become a lot more self aware, but you also become very aware of how other people view you. And I think sometimes young actors, they, because they're children, they have this inhibition about them to where they're not as concerned about how they appear to others. And then, you know, we go through that transition as we get older and we become aware of how people perceive us. And I think that affects some people's acting because all of a sudden it comes about or it becomes about how people perceive you and it can make you a Little bit too aware and too in your head. And so, I mean, obviously it's like, slight spoilers, but that's how I view Noah Schnapp and some of the other actors later on. It's almost like they get two in their head and they lose some of that innocence and freedom that they had as young children. But he doesn't have that right here. And he's so fantastic in this episode, in the season. Honestly.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: He stole the show.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: He's so, like, sinister, but at the same time, like, really vulnerable and scared and.
Yeah, it was just so good to watch.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah, he did terror. So, like, he liked the concept of terror so bad because you don't know what actually took over him or entered him. But he can convince you that, like, it's something that is not. It's not good, that it's not good, and it's going to, like, shake the tables when you figure it out.
And it is crazy, like, what you were saying about, like, that, like, the younger. The younger they were, the more, like, vulnerable they were with the audience. Because I remember they, like, do, like, live streams. They used to be, like. They used to be on, like, Snapchat and, like, postings, and you constantly see, like, you would constantly see, like, they would be like, oh, like, a video of, like, Millie Bobby Brown with, like, on, like, Instagram Live, like, you know.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Yeah. They would be doing lives all the time, the two of them.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: And so you saw them, like, become best friends, and then I guess a lot of fans grew this parasocial relationship to where they started.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, you don't see people doing that nowadays because. Or actors doing that nowadays. Like, online spaces and fandom has changed so much and become so aggressive. Like, actors don't, like, give themselves up that freely anymore, which is crazy. Yeah, they used to.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: Just a pot. Quick pause. Both my kids wanted to say hi on the podcast. They've been begging me, so they're gonna come say hi real fast. Can you guys say hi? You have to come to the microphone. Hi, guys.
You have to say your name and how much if you like Stranger Things or not.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Hi, my name is Gwen, and I'm
[00:11:48] Speaker C: not sure about Stranger Things.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: All right, so hair girl.
[00:11:54] Speaker C: Hello, everybody.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: How do you feel about Stranger Things?
Yeah.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: We'll bring you back when you have more well formulated thoughts, Right?
Yeah. All right, good night. Go to bed. He's like, you guys have been on the podcast. Now go away. Stop bothering me about it.
Go to bed.
[00:12:15] Speaker C: I Love you.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Bye.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: Stranger Things has taken care of his face.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: Shut the door. They're so silly. Anyway, okay, back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Yeah, there's this review I was reading on Process Media that was talking about how this opening sequence for this episode is one of the strongest openings we've had, just because it literally jumps right into Will being, you know, penetrated again and again, too. Like, as I was, like, typing stuff up. There's really no other way to. To write about what's happening to Will without acknowledging that it feels like sexual assault in a lot of ways. Like, the words that I would use, like, there's no better way to say the way he describes it.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: I mean, it brings up that imagery, like.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Right, no, it does. Yes, absolutely.
But ProcessMedia.net says that Noah Schnapp hasn't been given a whole lot to do with the role of Will so far in Stranger Things, but in Will the Wise, he finally feels like an active participant in his own story. Someone who is finally capable of putting his feelings into words, which are quite unsettling, especially when he goes from the vague feelings of having now memories to saying, like, he likes it cold.
And then he talks about how this episode really is a shift. Kind of like what you were saying, Leia, in the season where it starts to feel like, oh, stuff is happening now. Hopper has discovered the upside down is penetrating now into the right side up. We have Dustin realizing Dart is a baby demogorgo. We have things escalating with Billy. Like, we just. We are very. We're very poised, I think, for the. From, like, the next episode onward to, like, have some major things happening.
What did you say?
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Said Rip, mew, mew, meow.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, so with that being said, I. And I've talked about it on here before. Leia knows. But I will go on to Reddit when I'm, like, looking to see what the general feel for the show was when it first aired.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: There's a terrible thing to do.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: It's great. It's actually fantastic. Fantastic, because when the show was first airing, people were going on to Reddit and giving their thoughts about the show. And so there's no spoilers for the future, but it's really fun. It's kind of a time capsule. You go back and you get to kind of see. So I've decided to kind of make a segment because they're hilarious. So this is the Reddit thread, and I'm going to read to you some of my favorite comments because, guys, so funny. Okay, the first one is Dustin you stupid. You knew this would happen. Meal. You died for this.
[00:14:48] Speaker C: Literally, the died.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Someone says, I was so horrified by Mew Mew being eaten alive, but I couldn't help but get a huge kick out of the mini Demogorgon. Why couldn't it just have been a nice little Demogorgon? And someone said, poor Mew Mew. He didn't deserve it. Damn you, Dustin.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Seriously.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: I was. I was shocked. I remember watching and I was like, what the. I didn't think they were going to actually do that. And then just to see the cat just, like, dead on the side.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah, he was eating. And then right out of its stomach, he was eating down.
[00:15:18] Speaker C: Yeah, he was eating cat food, too. He was eating the cat food and the meat, the kibble, everything, literally. God damn. A good dart.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Justice for Mew Mew Mew Mew is the new Barb.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Is there a. Is there a Justice for Mew Mew movement? Like, there was a Justice for Barb movement.
[00:15:40] Speaker A: That's what we should make it. That's our new platform. Justice for Mew Mew Mew Mew deserved better. So funny.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Deserved more episodes.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Someone. Someone says, how the hell is Dustin going to explain this to his mom? Someone else commented and said, hey, Mom, I think Mew Mew ran away. Check out this new hairless cat, though.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Oh, my God, not the Demogorgon dart. I can't defend you on this, Dustin. I will defend everything else. I can't defend this.
[00:16:09] Speaker C: Dustin. Literally say.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: And then we have.
Fuck this show for forcing me to watch another episode.
And then that's me.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: That's me watching Euphoria every week right now.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: You have to know what's going on.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: Terrible.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: I'll see everybody next week.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: Like, the spongebob meme that's like, she doesn't know they about to play in her face every fucking week.
She's like, the door. Like, hello.
Oh, my God.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Wait, did anybody say anything about the very, like, sexy vibes between Steve and. And what's his name?
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: I was like, wait. I was like, wait a minute.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: Do you think we were talking about
[00:16:57] Speaker B: this in the last episode? And I was like, I was, like, shocked that people ship Billy and Steve.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: And I was like, there's a shower scene between them.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: I was like, I feel like he was salivating. Low key. Like, he was, like, drooling the side of his mouth and out his.
Whatever his.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: I kept waiting to look down. Yeah, with Tommy there, too. It was giving. Yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Tommy's so annoying.
[00:17:20] Speaker C: Oh, my God.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Anyone else Getting a vibe from that Steve and Billy scene. Yeah, totally. That macho Persona is just a cover for being mega gay. Yeah, he may be. Also, the way he objectifies women to the max. Definitely seems that may be the case. Someone says to the max, you say,
[00:17:38] Speaker C: that is insidious.
No, no, because, like, I remember people shipping Steve and Billy like years ago, and I was like, what are they talking about? But I was a kid, y'.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: All.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:51] Speaker C: I grown because I just watched the episode and I had to send somebody and say, why was he calling him King? King Steve twice told him he's. He's a baddie. Then he told him he was like, good looking
[00:18:04] Speaker A: pretty boy or something.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Yeah, he was inching very close in the shower, too.
[00:18:09] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: I'm like, why are you standing so close to.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying.
[00:18:13] Speaker C: Like, you about to. You see, in the package, theoretically, you're right here around them. You're seeing it dating, like, well, you got. You gonna get some good. Some girls. Say something for me. Are y' all sharing? What is that about?
[00:18:25] Speaker B: That's what he was offering.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: Seems like, see him.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: It's like, don't worry about it. King Steve, you're a good looking fella. There's lots of in the sea. And I was like, there goes lots of in the sea.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Anyway, there was just. There was so many. If you guys ever just want a funny laugh, then go on and go ahead and read the comments on Reddit. You all are hilarious. If anyone. I've actually had people reach out to me because I will read a random Reddit comment and then I'll get a message, like, years later, someone saying, oh, my gosh, that was me. And I'll be like, that is a small world. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah. So anyway, they're very, very funny. And people, you guys are just.
Yeah, some of you guys need to start podcasts because you're very funny.
So, anyway, all right, let's jump into it.
We start off at the school, right, where everything left off, except we see Formula one driver Joyce Byers racing up to the school. Her spider sense is ting. She just knows Will's in danger. Jonathan's also in danger from the government. But of course, Joyce is supposed to.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: Who the fuck is Jonathan? Who's Jonathan?
[00:19:38] Speaker C: Is insane. Is insane.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Wasn't it, Tony? We need to, like, make a jingle. Like, who is Jonathan?
[00:19:44] Speaker B: No, we need to do like, a little, like, section of the podcast called who's Jonathan? But only Joyce ever asks that.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: And she's like, who?
All right, so in the school, Joyce hears Dustin calling for Will, and Lucas tells them that Will's in the field. Mike's trying to wake him up when Joyce shows up, but Will is still being taken over by the shadow monster. We get an intense back and forth as Joy is trying to wake him up, and then suddenly, the monster finishes. I mean, there's really just no other way to talk about it. And then Will opens his eyes in the upside down, and then in the right side up. I thought that was really interesting. He. Both. He opens his eyes in both of them. The storyboards for each shot between Will and the monster were created by concept artist Michael Mayer Jr. Again, that YouTube video I referenced last episode, the visual effects wizardry Behind Stranger Things 2 went into a lot of detail about this and about that guy's role in particular, and how he actually did so much mapping out of the shots that the duffers would often take his shot or frame by frame and recreate it with their cameras. Like, he did a lot of work. In fact, he did so much work both pre and post that after they would shoot it on the camera, they would give it back to him, and he would draw, like, effects of the shadow monster over, like, Will's face so that they would have concept art for the visual effects people to know how much visual effects they would have to do, how much it would cost, how time consuming it would be. And because he was able to do all of that stuff, they were able to have a much better budget estimate for how much everything was gonna be both, you know, for time and money.
So, yeah, he. It sounds like he was like, a real MVP for the entire show. This scene, in particular, was filmed on the grounds of Patrick Henry High School. For film the sequence, visual effects supervisor Paul Graff told Noah Schnapp that he had to stand in the center of a circular camera track, six feet in circumference, while the green screen was behind him. They had to rotate the camera in full circular motion to capture Noah's facial expressions. They had to then go and obviously render the shadow monster and transform the background and everything. But to prepare for these scenes, Noah watched the Exorcist, and he also studied the scientific aspects of what happens to the body during a seizure for the sequence.
And he says, I remember feeling filming that scene, and it made me feel really good because Winona came up to me and she said, oh, my baby, are you okay? Please tell me if anything's wrong. Isn't that so sweet?
[00:22:11] Speaker C: That's so, so sweet.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: He's like, oh, he did an amazing job. Seizure.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Yeah, he did an amazing job. Like, it looked. It looked believable. And especially with, like, imagine the awkwardness of, like, so many people recording. He's just standing there, like, obviously, like, shaking and betraying as if he's being possessed.
Like, especially at his young age. It was.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it was.
[00:22:31] Speaker C: It was like. It was like gaggery at that time because I was like, in his mind, he's like, well, you know us, we're watching it. We're watching, obviously, possession takes place. But as, like, he's doing it, he's just doing it by himself. Like, he has to imagine, like, how his body would be. Yeah.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: There's nothing there, too, for him to act against either. So on top of it being such a physically demanding scene, he has to react to something that he can't even see.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: And he has to, like, portray this, like, terror of, like, just being consumed and, like, just being so shooken up and watching, like, and then, like, having to stay in place as he's, like, getting shook by, like, you know, Joyce and, like, getting, like, hearing the yelling and he's, like, made, like. He basically became Will in that moment.
And it was interesting to see because, like, watching such, like, young actor, like, actors, like, be so invested in the role, I was like, yes. Like, this is. This was the perfect choice.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: I'll never forget watching it and see, like, for the first time when it was coming out and being like, this is probably the best child actor I've. I've ever seen since maybe Dakota Fanning at this point. Because it's just so good how he embodies it.
Senior visual effects supervisor Paul Graff says the crew members watching Schnapp's performance in those moments were equally impressed. It was really amazing to see Sean Levy and Noah says, graph. There's all these guys in big gear around him. And then Sean walks up to him and whispers something into his ear. There's like, this eerie moment where he kind of freezes and looks down into the lens or below the lens. It's like when the shadow monster reaches his heart. It looks so amazing. It wasn't scripted like that that night. I remember everybody was like, oh, my God, this is just amazing. He stepped up his game so much once. He was the center ads Ross Duffer. We had no idea that he had all of that in him. He gave us chills. What that kid did was truly incredible. Obviously, season two does not work without that performance that he gave. It still blows my mind. I mean, they didn't Know that they were gonna have a season two when they cast Noah Schnapp, and they were just. They just needed him to be the little boy that was gone for most of the season. So it's actually, like. It literally is a miracle that they lucked out with such a good actor for how much he carries.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Because they wouldn't have auditioned him for.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: No.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Anything too involved.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, it would have been. I mean, he has to. He has to convey fear believably enough. But it's very different what's happening in this season versus past ones.
[00:24:46] Speaker C: But.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Yeah. So later on the credits, after the credits, we see Joyce and Will leaving to go home. Max and the boys watch, and she's like, that freaked me out. We're like, me who? Max? The boys know that Will's episodes are getting worse, and they think that it might be true. Sight which Max is like, huh? We all go, huh? What does that mean? I love how they throw out a theory, and we're all like, okay, well, that's obviously what it is because Mike
[00:25:09] Speaker B: said it, so it has to be true.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: He's the heart. He understands.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: Yeah, he's the heart.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: He knows Will.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, he does.
I would say Mike probably is.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Knows Will the best.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But, yeah. I'm getting pissed off with them not telling Max. I understand this idea that they're trying not to put anyone in danger, but they're being so obviously, like, inclusive. It's like, why would you invite her to the party if you can't tell her everything?
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: It's like, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have, like, a friend be there. And then, like, when she's asking questions, just be, like. Just push her away.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Because, like, she's putting her life at risk. Because, like, let's say that, like, there are the people that obviously.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: About the Upside down is watching her. They could try to do the same thing they did to, like, you know, Jonathan and Nancy. It's like, you're into bringing this girl into this world, and then you're excluding her out, and then you're, like, trying to, like, gaslight her for not feeling, like, weird that you're, like, invalidating her, like, presence. Like, you, like, she's.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
Assume that she knows the same things that they do. Like, with her hanging out with them, they're already putting her in danger.
But.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: But also, I love that Max calls them out. Like, we can talk about it later. But I just. I love her as a character. She's so strong and outspoken, and it's so jarring to see her with Billy versus how she is with the boys. Yeah. So I'm really excited to see more of that as well.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it's interesting because Max is trying to protect the boys, too, in some ways from Billy, and they're trying to protect her from the government. So it's like everybody's trying to protect everybody, but they're not.
I know. I know. Right?
Literally.
So later on at the Byers, Joyce is trying to get Will to tell her what happened. He says he doesn't remember anything, that it's all blank. And she's like, you need to tell me the truth. It pulls out the tracing of the shadow monster and then shows him his drawing and is like, they're the same. And she's like, I think these episodes are real. I think the doctor is wrong. But she's like, I can't help you unless you talk to me. And she says, please, no more secrets. Okay? Did you see this thing on the field? Will looks freaked out and says yes. We get flashbacks from Trick or Treat Freak, where he hid in the alley as she asks what the shadow monster is, and Will is in tears. He's like, I don't know. And it's almost more like a feeling. Joyce asks about the arcade. We get another flashback. Joyce asks him what he wants and what the shadow monster wants. And then we see Will running away from the monster in the schools. Will says he doesn't know, but it came for him and he tried to make it go away, but that it got him. Very reminiscent of the Demogorgon. That he felt it everywhere and that he still feels it. He dissolves into tears. He tells her he just wants it to be over. Joyce comforts him, tells him that she will never, ever let anything bad happen to him again. She will fix it. I'm like, every time parents do that, I'm like, don't. You're making yourself a liar. You can't protect your kid from everything. But, man, it's so hard because I get the instinct to want to protect your child. Right. And to reassure them, but it's also like, you can't protect them. Oh, I don't know.
So then we close with her glaring on the picture. She looks very determined. We're like, O Mama.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Joyce is back, pulling out the lights again.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah, literally. She's like, let me become one with the lights, the frequency.
Sit there and meditates with her ax again.
So then at the cabin, 11 is heading back after her field trip, it's night time. We just see the silhouette of Hopper on the porch. And I was like, bro, I'm scared. I can tell he's pissed off.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: I was like, girl, don't go in.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah, go find someone else. Time to live in the woods. Back to the lab.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Like, you better off going back to the lab.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: At this point, literally, she just ignores him, heads into the cabin. Hopper storms in, slams the door, yells, friends don't lie. Isn't that your saying? She tries to shut her bedroom door, still ignoring him. He stops the door from closing, saying, don't walk away from me. Instantly, the music gets ominous. We're like, oh, shoot, this is different.
Something's going down. 11 shucks off her coat. Hopper action. Asks where she went on her little field trip and if she went to see Mike. 11 says, he didn't see her. Hops like, yeah, well, that mother and her daughter did. They called the cops. He asks her if anyone else saw her, and she snaps, nobody saw me. He's like, you put us in danger. You realize that, right? Eleven's furious, in tears, says, you promise I'd go and I never leave. Nothing ever happens. Hops like, yeah, nothing ever happens. And you stay safe.
11 yells, you lie. Hop says he doesn't. That he protects, checks, and feeds and teaches and all. He asks that she follows three simple rules and that she can't even do that. He walks out into the living room and tells her she's grounded. That means no Eggos. He goes to the fridge and throws them out, then tells her, no TV for a week. Which I was like, oh, okay, we can talk about in a second. He says, no TV for a week. He goes, picks up the tv, doesn't move. We turn around, and we see her nose is bleeding, and we're like, oh, Hopper, this is not the right person to be picking a fight with. No, with. He tells her to knock it off. She shakes her head. She's like. She's kind of got that predator like tilt to her head where it's like, I've seen her snap people's necks with the same look on her face.
[00:30:12] Speaker B: I kind of like that. He's not afraid of her, though.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's sexy, isn't it?
[00:30:17] Speaker B: It's not even that that's sexy. Like, I just think. I just think, like, there's obviously a lot of issues with the way that he deals with. With this situation in general and the way he blows up up. But I think it comes from a place of like, he's obviously. He's scared about his daughter. Like, he couldn't save his daughter, and he. This is. Now it's his job to protect 11, and he's kind of losing control because he's probably flashing back to not being able to save his daughter. But I like the fact that he isn't afraid of her powers. Like, he just challenges her more on it because I feel like that.
[00:30:53] Speaker C: That.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: That might make her feel like she's less of a monster. Like, you know what I mean? Like, he's. He's not afraid of her. He's not just going to, like, you know, like, bow. Like, not bow down, but he's just. He's not going to give her what she wants because he's afraid of her.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker C: Like, you can kind of see, like, even with L, you kind of see, like, she's like, oh, there's like. Normally all that I have to do is, like, threaten them. And they're like, yeah, listen. Like, she probably thinks that she can, like, bully her way into, like, having him retract the statement. So she, like, probably never came against somebody that, like, see her powers. And it's like, I'm not moved because she's obviously been experimenting on for years. So she's probably seeing people who, like, see her as an experiment and doesn't want to get too close to her because they're afraid that she might, like, snap their necks. And he's obviously probably heard and seen and witnessed it, and he's just not moved. He's like.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: He sees her as a girl.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
That can go on a killing spree. He's like, like, you know, you need somebody to tell you no and that this is not okay and that there's rules and boundaries that need to be set.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And he tells her there's consequences to her actions and ends up ripping out the cord in the tv. And then she says, you are like, papa. You are like, papa. It was like, everywhere. It's like a vocal stim at this point. And he goes, really? He's, like, rubbing his eyes. I'm like, that psychotic son of a. He's like, all right, you want to go back to the lab? One fault phone call and I can make it happen. She tells him that she hates him. He's like, well, I'm not too crazy about you either, because you're a brat. Do you know what that word means? How about that be your word for the day? He grabs a dictionary, tosses it to her. She freezes it. Tosses it back at him, and he's like, what the hell is wrong with you? Starts to move forward. She moves the couch in front of him, pulls down the bookshelf, and then goes into her room and slams the door shut. He's banging on the door, screaming for her to open the door and get to grow the hell up. And then she drops to the floor in tears and screams and rage and bursts all the windows out in the cabin.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: I feel like it didn't have to be this violent.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: Like, he's worried about them. Like, her revealing that they. They exist or she exists. Well, guess what? Now she just made it.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: The neighbors now walking by.
[00:33:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm gonna see grass, like, glass just sprayed all around the circuit the surface. So was it worth it?
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:33:15] Speaker C: It's just not. I just feel like. I don't know. I just think, like, for him, he gotta understand. Like, even though he's right in a sense, like, for her, she's how we already been, like, controlled and manipulated and had somebody act like they were a father figure to her, so. So she doesn't know a proper. Or, you know, like, a proper father figure or somebody that's like, yeah, that obviously cares about her, well, being. So imagine her only having, like, Mike and his friend group and, like, you know, Eggos and the tv, especially with the egos and TV being her only way of, like, normalcy.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:45] Speaker C: Having him strip those, like, normal tendencies away from her and have her, like, be confined in this cabin to, like, think of stuff that she went through and, like, obviously watching Mike find a girl that she might think is replacement. He doesn't know what she's battling with inside as well. So, like, both sides are right, but him, like, trying to take things that, like, keeps her, I guess, sane in this place of not being able to leave out and then telling her to grow up and, like, you know, you're a brat. Like, she's only been having a normal life for a couple months now. She doesn't know what a normal life is. And when she tried to have one, she had to leave it. So for her, she's like, okay, I'm watching my friends move on past me, and I'm stuck in this, like, this time loop of watching you come in, bringing me food, we watch TV together, and I ask you just to let me go outside one time. You're telling me throwing a book at me and telling me to learn a new word of the day is not going to help. And. But also understandable because Hopper hasn't had a child in years. So he also doesn't know, like, what. What he could, you know, what could trigger her or what a good dad would say, because he hasn't had that experience in a while. So you're watching these two people grow to find what a proper daughter and father relationship would be. But it's also validating on both sides. And I just love the whole acting of it. I even, like, teared up a little bit watching it because I was, like, now, like, older, you can understand Hopper's point of view. Because when I was younger, I was like, oh, Hopper's, like, such a drag. But, like, yeah, now you get to see, like, both sides are, you know, making understanding. But it's hard because for her, her, like, concept of, like, you know, safety and trauma and, you know, danger is different from his. Like, he's seen what the people are, you know, capable of if they find her again. She just doesn't, you know, she's not thinking about that, like, more so right now.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you brought it up last episode, Leia, where you said that Hopper's also trying to protect Joyce and Will and all the other kids that he told the government he would keep from telling anyone anything. So he's trying to do all of this. And, you know, I think Hopper and L are triggering each other right now. They're pushing each other's particular buttons, and that's what's causing it to be so explosive. Because, like you were saying, Naj, like, l has. We've seen her struggle with being locked up. She has actual claustrophobia. But then it also triggers something primal inside of her.
And that's why she compares him to Papa. And he's over there going, I'm feeding you. I'm giving. It's a very Boomer mentality. I'm giving you all the things that you need. Like, what. Why do you need emotional support? Like, who. Who needs mental health? You know what I mean? But he's not recognizing. He's not putting himself in her shoes. And he's also not being understanding of the fact that he's broken trust with her several times now by being late, by not in compromising and giving her anything, really.
And then, like, you're saying Nash just taking away the phone and. Or the Eggos and the television, that's her only way to connect with the outside world. That's her literal breaking point. And it's just. It's difficult to watch because they both have a point, but they're both handling it very poorly.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I was Gonna say, like, because this is set in the 80s. This. I feel like this is very much like an 80s parenting style. It's a very outdated, like, violent. You know, your parents screams at you. They say, my way. Because I said so.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: And he's been doing that, basically, not really explaining it to her.
And. Yeah, I just thought it was, like a. It was an accurate depiction of, like, what I would imagine.
A father.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: An 80s father. Yeah.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Like, obviously, now there's, like, gentle parenting and stuff like that.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Right. But I think, like, there's also. I think our generation understands a little bit more what it feels like to be shut down and not heard by our parents.
And so, you know, that's unheard of for Hopper. And you can see that he struggles with that because, like, the next scene where he's. He, like, wants to go up to her door and he goes, hey, kid. And then you can see him be like, no, no. I need to give her tough love. She needs consequences. And I think if he had actually opened that door and talked with her and, like, had that conversation initially, was trying to. This probably would have been a very different season.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: But, yeah, the argument between them where all of the windows blowout. That was actually filmed without visual effects, they actually did blow out all the windows on set, which is crazy.
[00:38:06] Speaker C: Really.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: Staff writer Paul Dichter, who wrote this episode, says, I think it was a lot of fun for all of us to think about. What if you did have superpowers and you were a tween girl and you were really upset? You can't help but kind of grin at the possibilities. And we obviously love the idea of Hopper being in way over his head as a sort of relatively unenlightened 1980s stereotype and challenging him with this really tough, strong girl who could also kill him with the twist of her head. But David harbor says Hopper has a bit of a mental roadblock when it comes to realizing just how dangerous 11 can be. He says he can't really fathom that she has those powers. Harbor says you can't actually yell at a kid if you can see that they could snap your neck with their mind. Right. He described the actual filming of the sequence as incredibly intense, with both he and Brown acutely feeling their character's emotions. It was a very difficult day because there's a lot of difficult feelings to have to go through. Acting work is best when it's very personal. And I think that Millie and I both were a bit bruised as we were shooting that scene in afterward. We had to come to reconciliation through the rest of the season because it did get very personal. She's a very open instrument and I am as well. She calls him psychotic and controlling. He calls her a brat. The lines get a little blurry in those scenes and it gets very real, which I think is why it resonates so well. Your job as an artist is to bleed a little bit so that maybe other people don't have to. He said that filming the argument scene, the cabin, made him feel terrible on the inside, even though it was just for the show. He says that was a really messed up day when we did that scene. I mean, I was feeling all messed up about it, but I did want to treat the scene with the respect it deserves and I wanted to treat Millie with the respect she deserves as my female co star and really give her my all in my power and she's able to give it right back. So that was a very complicated day. And then Sean Levy says, that was an example where you start the day, you stage the scene, and then with those two, you get out of the way. Actors like Millie and David feed on each other's energy. Every time you say cut, it's a deflation. We did long takes and I let their anger and frustrations build up and we captured a lot of it on film. I gave a few notes here and there about the pain that is underneath both of their anger, but they're so good and they just delivered which period which not to like jump ahead, but there was all that stuff that came out at the beginning of season five. I don't know if you guys know about all of the behind the scenes stuff where it was revealed that Millie Bobby Brown ended up like.
I forgot what the correct term is. But talking with Netflix and filing reports on David harbor saying that she received a lot of emotional abuse from him and she had pages upon pages of it and it was handled very internally and they seem to be on good terms now. We'll talk about it more when we get to season five. There was a lot of like kerfuffle about it because of the. All the stuff going on with David Harbor's ex wife. It was. It was her best friend who revealed that that happened.
Netflix and Millie Bobby Brown and David harbor all handled it internally, seemed to deal with it and kind of wanted to move past it. But the ex, I forget, what's her name? Lily.
[00:40:57] Speaker B: Lily Allen.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: Lily Allen? Yeah. Lily Allen, her best friend leaked that Millie had filed all of this, that stuff.
But there was tons of pictures during the season five press tour, like, it was very intentional that Millie and David harbor took pictures together. And then there were people that, at pressed, asked Millie and even the Duffers about it, and they're. If you listen to what they're saying, their answers are very interesting because they don't deny it, but they very much say, we're really focused on making sure that, like, these characters get, you know, the justice that they deserve, and also that the fans are really happy with all of this. So it seems like they all settled and found some sort of equilibrium. But I would imagine just putting myself in their shoes. If you are acting in this way, I'm sure the lines get blurry, and it probably makes it complicated when you have to. To talk with this person and interact with them outside of being your character. So I would imagine there was probably some stuff that they had to kind of be like, all right, boundaries, you know, but damn down.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: Anyway.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: All right. So then back at the Byers, Jonathan comes home, calling for Joyce, and Will sees them curled up together on the bed. We zoom in on Will, and he looks like he's having another nightmare. Back at the Wheelers, we see that Nancy's like, hey, I'm gonna have a sleepover at Stacy's. They're all eating breakfast together. Again, the contrast between the buyers and the Wheelers just cracks me up. She's like, I'm just gonna, you know, have a girl's night. Karen buys this hook line and sink her. She's like, that sounds so fun.
Baddie. Every time you see her, you're like, I'll allow it. She can do no wrong. Good for her.
[00:42:35] Speaker B: Whatever she wants.
[00:42:37] Speaker A: We see Nancy heading to Jonathan's car with an overnight bag. Afterwards, Jonathan says that Joyce was sleeping, but that he left a note. I was like, joyce didn't see that.
[00:42:47] Speaker C: She doesn't care.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: She does not give a.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: You can literally just leave, and she would not even notice.
[00:42:53] Speaker C: Notice. Like, someone has to do a compilation of, like, from season one to five. The amount I'm planning on it.
[00:42:58] Speaker A: When we get to season five, I'm gonna go find every single.
[00:43:00] Speaker C: It's insane. It's insane because, like, it's that type of thing where, like, I understand and I like Joyce, especially earlier seasons, but it's like, girl, you're making me dislike you.
Like, it's not literally.
Yep. After. After witnessing it with Will, she just doesn't apply to Jonathan. Like, how does it just. How do you miss the point?
[00:43:20] Speaker B: Jonathan who?
[00:43:21] Speaker C: Jonathan.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Jonathan.
[00:43:22] Speaker C: Jonathan is his own person at this point. He just needs his own else or something like that.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: He's his mother and his own father.
[00:43:29] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: The song playing right here is. This is Radio Clash by the Clash. Again, we've talked about them extensively. The band that's kind of synonymous with Will and Jonathan. It's got a lot of anti authoritarian lyrics. I love that they're specifically talking about taking over the sound waves as that's what Nancy plans to do by recording the government and then releasing their secrets. Also, Nancy is wearing an argyle stitched sweater. The argyle pattern was very popular punk logo for hardcore punk rocker from Oxnard. The nardcore song or the nardcore music genre that we talked a lot about last episode. That kind of kicked on when Nancy got the idea to do all of this.
So the argyle print depicted the O and the X for Oxnard. And it's also blue, which is a color often associated with characters depicted as outsiders. So I like how they're just very much. Even Nancy's hair, you notice how it's curlier too. It's almost like she's letting her natural hair come out. She's also dressing in a more rebellious way. She's doing all this stuff, Steph, like, I just love Nancy. They're so great with her.
So that the buyers. We see Joyce on the phone and we're like, oh, is she trying to call Jonathan, find out where he is? Nope. She's calling the station, wondering why Hopper hasn't called her back or come by, and then tells Flo to have him call her. The second he gets in, Will wakes up. She takes his temperature and sees that it's really low. It's like 95 degrees. And she asks if he feels cold. He says no, he just feels out of it. So she's like, all right. Right, let's get you a nice warm bath and bring up your temperature.
So then at the Henderson's house, Dustin is feeding a bigger and fatter dart, tells him to hang tight, that he has to go to school, covers the terrarium and takes off. We all are like, we see where this is going at the school.
Are you also going to justify Dustin's behavior too, Leia?
[00:45:14] Speaker B: Ah, dusty buns.
Yeah, him and his nougat.
[00:45:19] Speaker A: It.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: You know what? Like we said, Lucas has Max, Mike has. L has.
Yeah, like, you know, he's not. He doesn't want girls. He wants a thing that he doesn't know is a demo.
[00:45:36] Speaker A: I would say he's a furry, but what. What's the opposite of a furry? It's a. I don't know.
[00:45:41] Speaker C: Skinny.
[00:45:42] Speaker A: A skirt? Scurry.
[00:45:44] Speaker C: What.
What's it called?
Hairlessy
[00:45:52] Speaker A: mole rat.
[00:45:53] Speaker B: Like a. Like a booger that moves like.
[00:45:55] Speaker C: I don't know.
[00:45:56] Speaker A: Their ship name is.
Let's see, Dustin and Dart Duber. Dustin and Dart.
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Best friend. That's not a ship.
It's a platonic relationship. Actually, it's fatherly.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: He's the. He's the father now.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: That's his dad.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: I was like, is Dustin the father? Is Dart? No.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think at one point Dustin is the father. But after Dart eats Mew Mew. He becomes the dad.
[00:46:28] Speaker A: Gotcha. Gotcha.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: He becomes the.
[00:46:30] Speaker A: The monstrous. The monstrous penis instead of the monstrous womb. The monstrous testes.
All right, so at school, Dustin finds Mike and Lucas and Max digging in the trash looking for Dart. Actually, Lucas, who drew the short straw and is pissed that Dustin showed up after he drew the short straw to emphasize this point, Max is like, you stink. And then goes and stands by Dustin, who just looks so pleased. He's just, like, staring at her, and he's like, hi. And she's like, okay.
And then they all dig through the trash bags. And then we see a little cockroach scuttle out as we hear the voiceover from Mr. Clark talking about how living things instinctively respond to danger by fleeing or deploying another defense mechanism. And as he's talking, we see Mike looking at the empty seat next to him and Will walking towards the bathtub like it's his number one enemy. We see Mr. Clark say, we're very much the same. When we encounter danger, our hearts start pounding, our palms start to sweat. These are the signs of physical and emotional state. We see our first goosebumps on the back of Will's neck, and we're like, oh.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: Then we see Joyce listening to Hopper's voicemail again. He's like, hey, it's Jim. I'm probably out doing something incredible again.
She's, like, so irritated. Will comes in, tells her the water is too hot. She goes back in to see that the water is draining and is like, okay, I can turn it down a bit, but we got to get your temperature back up. Will's like, no, he likes it cold.
[00:47:58] Speaker C: Cold. Oh, my God.
[00:47:59] Speaker B: That's so creepy.
[00:48:00] Speaker C: Yeah, imagine it. Like, imagine just, like, goodness. Like, I don't. When I remember seeing it, and I remember, like, the season two, like, trailer hype. Like, when everybody was like, hype. And those are like. That was, like, one of the most interesting things to me because, like, he already Knows, like, the, like, the gender of it. Like, he likes it cold. Like, already getting, like. Yeah. As if he just. Like, he already knows and, like, the presence of the, like, whatever possessed him within, like, those amount of hours.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Penis. Yeah.
[00:48:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: It's just shaking her head. So disappointed in me.
[00:48:37] Speaker C: I am disgusted. Yeah, because it's. It's insane. Because, like, he's talking as if he's not even himself. It's like he's, like, taking a back seat in his body. So you see Joyce, like, being like, oh, well, you know, maybe this is, like. I don't know. Like, maybe in her mind, she's like, maybe this will take a little bit of time to, like, before. Actually affects Will, but it's actually affecting him now. And so she's like, just imagine her son, like, saying, I can't take a bath because he don't want it cold. He wants it cold.
[00:49:05] Speaker A: He don't want it cold. Points to the side.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: So, like, okay, son, get in the bathtub.
[00:49:10] Speaker C: Put some ice creams in it.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: Right now you're like, well, he. She. They can all get into the bathtub with you.
[00:49:16] Speaker B: Yeah, everybody can get in the bathtub, get under the water.
[00:49:20] Speaker C: Right. How would you know? Well, go get in that bathtub now.
[00:49:27] Speaker A: Is the fact that Will, like, as soon as he says that, he kind of gets this look on his face, like he knows how stupid that just sounded, and he just kind of walks away, like, yeah, I know. That was crazy. We're just gonna pretend that didn't happen. And he just moves away. And Joyce is over there like, okay, something is wrong. Something's very.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: Like when you're a little. A little kid, like, wakes up in the middle of the night and they come to your bedroom and they're like. Like, I. No, not. I threw up.
[00:49:53] Speaker C: Hey, Mom.
[00:49:53] Speaker B: My friend Stacy that lives in my closet, she says that we have to leave the house. And it's like, what the.
I'm like.
I'm like. And then they take the kid right back to the bed, and they're like, go to sleep, sweetie. It's just a nightmare.
[00:50:11] Speaker A: Scary.
[00:50:12] Speaker B: Meanwhile, there's a demon. Yeah.
[00:50:14] Speaker A: My daughter once drew a picture, and I was like, what is this? She's like, you dead? And I was like, like, whoa. Are you gonna off me in my sleep?
[00:50:21] Speaker C: What's gonna happen?
[00:50:24] Speaker A: And then I would say goodnight to her at night. She'd stare at me and draw her finger across her neck, and I'd be like, see you in the morning, I hope.
[00:50:33] Speaker B: What the.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: I'm still here. So, you know, apparently it wasn't too much of a threat, but.
[00:50:41] Speaker B: Yeah, this is why I don't have children.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: They're scary, man. They're always. They're always looking to off you.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: They just say some.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: They do, yeah. But at least as soon as my child starts talking about themselves in the third person, I'm like, yeah, bye. Yeah. So at the cabin, Hopper is finishing up boarding up the windows. This is that moment we were talking about earlier. He, like, tries to, you know, say something and speak softly to Elle outside her door. And then is kind of like, no, got to be a man. And then he's like, I want this all clean up when I get back. And then I'll consider fixing the tv. And then out at the car, Flo is radio him, radioing him and telling him that Joyce has called eight times that morning. She's like, oh, my gosh, for my sake, please deal with her. He takes off. And then at school, Steve is getting his butt whipped by Willie again, who keeps mocking him. Steve's like, do you ever stop talking?
Willie, Billy, William, Spike. Who knows at this point?
[00:51:38] Speaker B: Oh, that's not. Don't trigger me. What?
[00:51:42] Speaker A: What, are you afraid the coach is going to bench you now that I'm here? I'm like, yeah, poor Steve. He knows he's not very smart. This is all he has. Don't take this from him. And then he knocks him over, makes a basket before offering his hand to Steve, then saying in a menacing voice, you are moving your feet. Plant them next time, draw a charge. Then shoves him back down, just baiting him. He's like, fight me, fight me.
[00:52:02] Speaker B: I thought he was being kind of nice here. He was, like, giving him a tip, giving him information. Also, like, being. Being alpha male.
[00:52:08] Speaker A: At the same time, Billy doesn't know if he wants to kiss him or if he wants to beat him up. Like
[00:52:15] Speaker B: the next scene, like in the. In the showers, I was like, this is the most likable that Billy has been this entire time, by the way.
[00:52:22] Speaker A: It's not even likable, though.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: I know.
[00:52:26] Speaker C: Right before he.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: The bar is in hell.
[00:52:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:29] Speaker A: And freaking Tommy was there. I was like, oh, Steve is in hell. Steve needs some new friends.
[00:52:34] Speaker C: Imagine trying to take a shower and you got idiot and idiot s on your side.
Where's my peace and harmony in my shower?
[00:52:43] Speaker A: Oh, it's awful. The script says, like, Tommy is gleeful about the fact that Steve didn't know about Nancy. And, like, is like, oh, the princess went off to be with Jonathan. He mocks him. He leaves. Billy's like, hey, don't take it too hard, man. Pretty boy. Like, he's got nothing to worry about. Plenty of in the sea. Then he turns off the water as Steve's all lathered up.
I was like, okay, the pissing comments.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: And then he literally, like, eye him a little bit.
[00:53:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:12] Speaker C: That's insane.
[00:53:13] Speaker B: Like, pretty boy.
[00:53:16] Speaker A: Yeah, literally.
[00:53:18] Speaker C: Steve is just so. He's like, get this. He turned that water back on. He couldn't even believe it. Like, he just. I don't know how he. I don't know how he can process. Like, this dude just called you pretty. And yeah.
[00:53:29] Speaker A: He's so confused right now.
[00:53:30] Speaker C: Talking about some. Yeah, you get. You get all the. I'm just like, what? What? So are you watching that? Who told you that is Tom who was telling you he getting.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: Because he clearly, it's giving. Obsession.
[00:53:44] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: He rivalry right here. I think Billy is mad because he wants Steve's hair. That's what it is.
[00:53:51] Speaker B: I think Billy wants to hear.
[00:53:53] Speaker C: He wants.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: I mean, he might. He might at this point.
[00:53:55] Speaker C: It's anyway, like, you want to jump in and see?
[00:53:59] Speaker B: This is canon, by the way.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Hey, Billy.
[00:54:02] Speaker B: Billy. Steve Shippers, I'm on your side.
[00:54:06] Speaker A: Last episode, you were like, oh, I don't see it. I was over here. Just wait.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: I see the vision.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: The script says that Billy slaps Steve on the back, then heads out of the shower. Tom and the others follow him like wolves in a pack, leaving Steve all alone in the shower room. Water streams down his face, hiding his tears.
What?
[00:54:26] Speaker C: I was crying. Yeah, but he looked irritated and like he was about to get back.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think he played it that way. Way.
[00:54:33] Speaker A: No, I think it was different. That's how it was supposed to be in the script, but yeah.
Poor Steve, man. How.
[00:54:39] Speaker B: How make him cry.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm glad they didn't either. So at the park, Nancy and Jonathan are waiting, and no one has shown up. Nancy starts getting suspicious. She feels like everyone is watching them. And then even is like, hey, I think that person has an earpiece. And then I was like, all right, let's head back to the car. And then they end up being followed by a man with a briefcase. They get in the car, the car won't start, and then they're surrounded by several people with one of them knocking on the window, being like, he, hey, need a ride? And they're like, oh, shoot. Like, these are the government people we baited. I like how they're all surprised and we're like, what? What did you think was gonna happen?
Yeah. Is that not what you wanted?
[00:55:16] Speaker C: What you wanted? Like, I'm confused. I guess they expected, like, maybe one person or, like, two, but, like, they were covering every side of the car, even to the point where I rewatched. I was like, wait, what happens after this? And then I realized, I was like, oh, is it they done? How do they come back from this all around them?
[00:55:31] Speaker A: Naj is like, no, Nancy's gone. She's done.
[00:55:35] Speaker C: I'm like, they're up. It's a trap.
[00:55:39] Speaker A: She was a wonderful character when we knew her.
[00:55:42] Speaker C: Justice for Nancy and Jonathan.
[00:55:44] Speaker B: Just as for everybody at this point,
[00:55:46] Speaker A: yeah, literally everyone's having a rough time.
So then at the buyers, Hopper shows up. The front doors open, the windows are open. Joyce tells him to leave it all open, and it's freezing out. She takes him into Will's room where he's sitting shirtless in front of the window. Then we see them looking at Will's photo of the shadow monster, Hops, asking him about how he knows that he likes it cold. Will says he doesn't know that the monster doesn't talk to him. He just knows things that he didn't know. Before Hopper asks what else Will knows. He says, it's hard to explain. It's old memories in the back of his head, but they aren't his memories. He starts to tear up, says he thinks they aren't old memories, but now memories happening right now, it's hard to explain. We see the tunnel a few more times as he says that they're growing, spreading, and killing. He isn't sure what it is that's all happening, what he's seeing. But he's crying, and Joyce sees one of his drawings and suggests he draws what he means since he can't verbalize it. So then we see him drawing. As we hear their phone ringing, we see that Mike is calling from school. No one answers. So he tells the rest of the game that they need to talk in the ab room. Party members only. And then Dustin Lucas aren't happy and apologize to poor Max. Okay.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: Justice for Max.
[00:56:52] Speaker A: Yeah. No, literally. My question is, didn't they talk about last episode about how. Or like a couple episodes ago about how they're like a democracy and you have to have enough members volunteer vote. If both Dustin and Lucas are sit there going, no, we think Max should be in, like, income into this meeting.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: I don't think the rules apply to Mike because, oh, he's starting to irritate me so bad.
[00:57:14] Speaker C: I want to mention this. I was like, okay, but this is like literally the same day that happened with season one with Elle.
[00:57:20] Speaker A: Uhhuh.
[00:57:20] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Okay, well, no, but now he's like,
[00:57:23] Speaker B: well, he made the executive decision in season one.
[00:57:26] Speaker C: Like, we can't eat your cake and play it around.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: He's such a hunk this episode.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: Also, I thought that him and Max, like, came to an understanding in the last episode.
[00:57:35] Speaker C: G and I. Because what happened, no one can join the group unless it's under his rules. Apparently.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: Yeah. He's like, we're a democracy, and yet everyone has to run things by him.
[00:57:43] Speaker B: I'm like, mike, this is a dictatorship.
[00:57:46] Speaker A: Yeah, literally. Tyranny.
[00:57:48] Speaker C: Dictatorship.
[00:57:51] Speaker A: In the AV Room, Mike tells them about what Will told him on Halloween night. Says that probably happened again the day before. Tells them about the shadow, says that Will saw it again the day before as well. They wonder if it can hurt him. Dustin pulls out his DND knowledge and is like, well, theoretically, no, because the shadow monster can't interact material plane from another plane. Mike's like, this is real life, Dustin. We need to acquire more knowledge. He says he's going to go to Wills and they should keep looking for Darts since Will hurt him in the Upside down. And if they find Dart, he might help them solve this. And you could see Dustin starting to be like, because it's that loyalty thing, right? Like he's, I want to help my friend and. But I also want to keep Dart safe. So in the cabin, El scrounges around, sees the cut wire on the tv and realizes no fixing it. So she uses her powers to kind of clean up. But as she does so, she finds a trap door below the cabin where a bunch of boxes are stored. And then she drags up a box that says Hawkins Lab on it and starts to read through the files.
Look what Guys, look what happens when you have no tv. Kids start reading again.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: Smart.
I like that.
[00:58:54] Speaker A: So then back at the lab, Jonathan and Nancy are being held in the same room Joyce was in. Owens comes in, is like, oh my gosh, so sorry. Let's take a walk. He takes them down the hallway, tells them that mistakes have been made. And Nancy's like, those mistakes killed Barb. And Owens is like, like, yes, but the men responsible are gone. For better or for worse. I'm the guy brought in to make things better, and I need your help. He asks.
They want to see what really killed her friend. Takes them to the rift room and low key threatens them. Like, he does it in the nicest way possible. But he literally was like, you know, the Soviets might find out. This is why we can't tell anyone else. You see, this is why I have to stop this truth from spreading. He's like, by whatever means necessary. As he, like, walks behind them and he's like, I understand each other.
[00:59:40] Speaker C: So evil.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: I feel like he's lowkey a little bit. Like he's scarier than Papa because at least Papa was like, outwardly sinister. Like, you could look at him and be like, oh, yeah, that's bad news. He didn't even try to hide the fact that he was trying to manipulate you. He just did it to your face. Yeah, but I feel like this guy, he. He's like trying to be buddy buddy and that he's like, on their side.
[01:00:01] Speaker A: I'm not like other evil Scientists. I'm a special scientist.
[01:00:05] Speaker B: You're Sketchy Sketcherton.
[01:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah, because look how fast he had those people follow, like, Jonathan and Nancy. Like, he, like, if Papa don't care, he's going to care. Like, and then having him witness, like, having them witness, like, them burning like the Dima demo. Demo Octis, whatever you call them. The Octom, whatever. Like, he's. That was kind of like a low key, a threat. Like, oh, you see how we just burnt them and got rid of them? We can make you go just like that. Like, that's what I got from it. Because, like, they don't know this world. And I mean, for them to be so smart and threatening. They weren't smart to see that Nancy had that tape.
[01:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Period.
[01:00:38] Speaker C: Like, I mean, were you checking it? Like, do I have any, like, security? I mean, once again, like, you know. Yeah, just my American ass. So probably a little scanner to go through, so. Because I'm overthinking about, like a little pat down. Yeah.
So they're just easy to go through, I guess. So. Let me just shut up. Because they're not in the 21st century, so.
[01:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah, no, but like, you're so real for that, especially because it's like he's over there acting like he's their best friend and he's showing them all this stuff and I think he feels pretty confident in that. Like, oh, I have it covered. Like, you're not gonna go tell a bunch of people. But at the end of the day, like, Nancy and Jonathan are right not to trust him in Hopper too, because this guy has a job to do. He was brought in to do something and he's not going to jeopardize that. That by, you know, I mean, he pretty much.
[01:01:31] Speaker B: He pretty much says that. He says it's our job to keep this contained at whatever cost.
[01:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: So, like, what's the cost? My God.
[01:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[01:01:42] Speaker C: It's clueless because the cost is that the cost is harassing another. The same person that was in there a couple months ago. So you're not containing anything because we actually know more than you, sir. So you're just cleaning up nonsense while we're actually in the field. Like Will's in the field, literally, because he was out there getting took in the field damn near. And you're just sitting here watching these teenagers. We need to be figuring out what is reaping and coming from the Upside down to harass these kids.
[01:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah, and also the pumpkins.
[01:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah, and the pumpkins. And it's killing people's crops and people's livelihoods, which now that's another. Another thing that could get them sued. So back at the buyers, Will scribbling on dozens of papers. Joyce and Hopper like, what in the world? Joyce is like, this is connected. Hopper's like, this is just scribbles. They end up moving aside furniture and lining up all the papers on the floor like a puzzle. As Will continues to scribble, we montage of Hop and Joyce laying down paper after paper until they're finished and it covers the entire floor. Like a maze goes up the furniture and up the walls. They're confused. And she mentions that it branches out like lightning. And Hopper asks if she thinks it's a storm. And Joyce is like, no, he used red for the storm. But this is all kind of like this bluish color and there's some sort of like dirt color underneath. And this triggers a pumpkin sized memory for Hop who. Who's like, he's drawing vines. And then he takes off. And then back at the school, Lucas asks mask Max if she's seen Dustin, but she is pissed off, rightly so. He follows her outside and is like, what's wrong? And she's like, you act like you want me to be your friend, but you treat me like garbage. Hiding in the AB Club and keeping secrets from me. Lucas is like, there are things we can't tell you for your own safety. She's like, oh, because I'm a girl? Did you keep secrets from Elle and Lucas? Like, how did you know about Elle? And she doesn't answer. And he's like, that. That was just different. Max is understandably pissed and is like, forget it. I don't want to be in your stupid party. I'm out. Have a nice life. You still stink by the way. She skateboards away. And as Lucas is sniffing himself, Max approaches Billy's car. And we see that he's been watching her interaction with Lucas. He asks who Lucas was. Max says he was no one. And Billy continues to watch Lucas walk away. Before getting in the car, he lights a cigarette and then asks why Max was talking to him. And Max says it was about an assignment. And Billy's like, well, then why are you so upset? Is he causing you trouble? Max is like, why do you care? Billy says, because, Max, you're a piece of. But we're family now, whether we like it or not, which means I'm stuck looking out for you. Max throws up her hands mockingly, saying, what would I ever do without you? And Billy grabs her wrist, yanks her, like, several times while he's talking to her, tells her that this is serious. I'm older than you, and something you learn is that there are certain type of people in this world that you stay away from. And that kid, Max, that kid is one of them. You stay away from him. You hear me? Stay away from. He yanks her arm several times, threateningly, and then lets her go. We see Max looks pretty shaken up and close to tears.
Worse and worse.
[01:04:32] Speaker B: Literally, he is. He is literally the worst.
[01:04:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it is so crazy because, like, this is like, one of the, like, scenes that people use to obviously, like, figure out who Billy is as a character.
But some people don't want to see it there because was he watching her interact with the other ones or did he just decide to pay attention when it's Lucas? And now, granted, like, yes, we know what they've done, and obviously they're interacting with a government kind of thing that can be harmful. But he doesn't know that. So what do he see besides them being nurse, that would make her be, like, for him to intervene like that. Yeah, when you're harassing pretty boy Steve, I think you need to mind your business, Billy, before I beat you you up.
He's a big Lucas. Yeah, like, stay away from Lucas, because I don't.
[01:05:20] Speaker B: He's a violent bigot.
[01:05:22] Speaker C: Literally, like, now you care. Like, where were. Like, do you pay attention to her besides that interaction? Yeah, she was standing outside the dumpster bin for, like, a good solid couple minutes, and you weren't paying attention then, but now when she talks to him, he's like, oh, she. He must done something. Well, obviously she would care, because you would know Max, if she doesn't care, she's Very blunt on telling. Telling you that. So she was affected. I mean, that she genuinely cared and was hurt. But you decide to threat the person that she seems to clear about.
Make no sense.
[01:05:49] Speaker B: But also, I think it's. Is like what I was saying earlier about how Max acts so different around the boys. Like, you could see that she actually wants friends. She wants to open up.
[01:05:59] Speaker C: She.
[01:05:59] Speaker B: She wants to be included. And she. Like, that's why she gets mad at the boys for not including her. But then once she starts interacting with Billy, she's also protecting. Protecting her friends from him.
You know, like, she's lying to Billy because she doesn't want him to, like, you know, keep pushing at this.
But it's just like, I don't remember a lot about their relationship and why he's like this. I feel like we'll find out about that soon.
But I just find it really interesting. And obviously he's a piece of, like, complete lately.
But, yeah, it's just. It's kind of violent. Like, he's very violent person.
[01:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:06:40] Speaker B: This episode had a lot of violence toward, like, little girls.
[01:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and even. Even teenage boys, too. Like, he's just. Everything he does is just a lot of. And I. I think if I could sum up, Billy is. He seems like someone who's just got rage simmering on the inside, and he. He's just seeking for control. He's lashing out because there's this sense of trying to control everything around him. And it's interesting because the script doesn't have any, like, racial implications. It very much heavily focuses more on. Billy, sees that Max is upset, and he attributes it to Lucas. And because Billy is like, oh, what's mine is mine. And, like, that's my sister. And basically, like, I'm gonna stand up for her, but not in a good way. It's more of like, oh, that's my s. Like, there's a possessiveness about whatever is his.
[01:07:35] Speaker B: It'll make him look good to stand up.
[01:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But there. There's an undeniable racial undertone to the way that he's saying those kinds of people, that person and stuff that I think is really. This scene is really interesting. And Naj, obviously you can speak to it more than I can, but I. I think this scene is brilliant in the sense that I've seen people argue and be like, oh, he's not being racist. He's just talking about nerdy people. Or he's talking about kids that are boys that are being unkind, or he's Trying to war off about boys, like, the way that they wrote it. It is so obvious what is happening. And it's obviously layered, but it's very true to the real world where you have actual racist people very rarely come out and say overtly racist things. It's usually more subtle. And I think that that's the brilliance of this episode.
[01:08:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Because, like, even now I. I think listen information if I'm wrong. But I remember the actor saying that he also, I think either said he didn't see it as a racist. Racist thing. But, like, I mean, once again, you got to keep in mind that even if that's not his intention or what he thought, you gotta keep on. This is like, during the 80s, like, yeah, you know, there's still, like, segregation just got done a couple decades before that. And, you know, there's probably still, like, you know, obviously black people in black communities struggling, like back then in, like, some different states, you know, black communities were getting destroyed by the government. So definitely, like, I think in Philadelphia. So, like, you know, granted, they may not be their thing, but we have to keep in mind that if we're imagining this, like, 80s, 70s world America, the context of is that he would definitely have said something like, this is like. Like small town.
Come on. Like, just because we have this group of, like, obviously other, like, white characters that doesn't have a problem with Lucas.
Lucas was already going through and getting called racial names. Like, they call. They're calling Darkness or Midnight, whatever. Whatever the bullying names were to him. Like, it's not hard for them to be like, okay, well, what can they bully Lucas about?
[01:09:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:09:26] Speaker C: And like, obviously if, like, Billy is like, guys become the new popular kid, he's probably already heard from other people about what people, whatever they're doing. So of course he's probably going to try to, like, figure out who Max is interacting with. Figure out who they are.
And I mean, like, granted, you can't, like, tell what people want to interpret it as. I interpret it as him kind of being weird, possessive, but also a little racist to me. Because it's like those people. As in what? Because.
[01:09:50] Speaker B: Yeah, what do you mean?
[01:09:51] Speaker A: Like, middle school boys? Like, what are we talking about?
[01:09:54] Speaker C: Middle school boys or just weirdos. But is it even crazier? Because, like, if they had shown us him, like, watching her interact, like, the whole premise, like, him, like, watching the whole group, then it's like, okay, he's talking about the nerds, but we only get him getting his way from Lucas because, like, she was with the group. And she was fine. But when she started talking to Lucas and she got irritated at Lucas, then we get billion in him basically telling her like, stay away from them type of people. So it's like if they added just one more scene, it wouldn't be like as like diversely controverted on. On. If it was just one more scene.
I have to kind of remember how Billy acts afterwards to really determine X. I haven't seen season two in years, so I would have to watch the whole season again to see if it was just that scene. But, like, I think a lot of people think that he's just like bigoted racist anyways, so I'd have to like watch it go through.
[01:10:43] Speaker B: He is a piece of like, I feel like it's not unreasonable to think that he would also be a bigoted racist.
[01:10:50] Speaker A: Well, and he's already referring to women as in the sea, you know, like he. He clearly had is sexist and probably misogynistic. It's. It's not hard to believe that he's going to hate anyone who is different than him, you know?
[01:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he does like him some. Steve the Hair Harrington.
[01:11:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Because he's a white boy. Because he's a white man.
[01:11:13] Speaker B: Pretty boy
[01:11:17] Speaker A: Steve.
He wants to be his queen. He wants to be his queen really bad.
[01:11:23] Speaker C: Right.
[01:11:24] Speaker A: The moment where Billy grabs Max wrist was apparently not scripted. Both Sadie Sink and Dacre Montgomery worked that out on the day of shooting to increase the tension between the two characters, which I really love. There was a quote that I had given a couple episodes ago, Naj, where Dacre Montgomery worked really hard to make Sadie Sink feel very comfortable because he goes, she's just a little kid. And here I am having to be like, really aggressive. So I like the fact that there was a collaboration separation between the two of them because sometimes you hear about some of these male actors who will just go off script and just grab someone or they'll do something and. And I'd like them a mindfulness of. I'm. That's still a person who is separate from their character behind that. And I have to like, ask consent before that. So.
[01:12:08] Speaker C: That is sweet that he did that though, because, like. Yeah, like what? Well, I can't talk about the end of season two, what happens within the season two. But like having like after actors, like, ask the other what they're comfortable with and their boundaries while doing the scene, it just makes it organic, like, because imagine her being caught off guard. Yes, it may be good for a scene, but it's Going to obviously be a little conflict behind the set. Because granted, that one clip is not worth you getting a bad rep because you jump. Scared a young child on an acting scene, especially when it's not scripted because, you know, some. Some like certain movements, you know, maybe requires preparation or stunts or whatever. So doing it unprompted, you could bruise her depending on if she's caught off guard. So that was going on his part to be like, hey, we should do this to really like, amp up. Because, like, Billy's a new character. You got to know about Max, but you don't know what bully's capable of to a degree. So this scene really puts into gear that Billy is. He's cuckoo bananas.
[01:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. Well, I mean, him. Him lighting the cigarette too. It gives this imagery of, oh, he. He's like a lit. A lit match. He's like a bomb that's ticking down. Like there's just something about him that screams danger. And I think you get that from
[01:13:17] Speaker B: even the music they play during his scenes. It's very much like Jaws music.
[01:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:13:23] Speaker B: You're about to be attacked.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: It's like the saxophones are getting louder inside.
[01:13:30] Speaker C: Everybody get inside.
[01:13:32] Speaker B: It's literally. It's like predator music.
That's what, that's what it sounds like. Like it's when. In a scary movie, in a horror movie, when you're about to get eaten by a monster.
[01:13:43] Speaker C: And it's crazy. It's like crazy watching him like he's like. It's like he. Look at the personality switch because, like, you're watching him in school and he's like all charismatic and then flirty even. Yeah. And then he gets to somebody that he's. He knew longer than the people in high school and he's like. Becomes a demon. It's like, how are you more flirty and comfy with putting this Persona for the people you just met, Met. But this, your stepsister or whatever sister in law that you knew for years, you're treating her like she's disposable. Like he needs her to act away to make sure his rep in school is prepped up. Because he can't. He can't be seen different due to him trashing Steve for having your problems. He needs to make sure his sister's in check. Because if they're.
[01:14:20] Speaker A: If they're seeing reflection on him.
[01:14:21] Speaker C: Yeah, it's reflection. It's not even just because he cares. It's reflection on him.
[01:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:14:25] Speaker C: She gets in his car, she drives off with him. So if they see her hanging with the weirdos. I outside, they're gonna be like, oh, Billy's sister is a weirdo, and it's gonna reflect on him. So he had to establish that dominance in that car to make her be shook, to never talk to him again. So he would rather idolize. I mean, what's called, you know, push her away and make her feel like a loner. Yeah. Than to have her ever build a bond, especially when moving into a new city.
[01:14:51] Speaker B: It's also jokes on him.
Haircut makes him look like a le loser.
[01:14:58] Speaker A: Well, it's also real rich that he's over here telling her to Max to be careful about certain types of boys and people and stuff. And he's over there, like, ogling girls and referring to them as objects.
[01:15:09] Speaker B: And in the sea.
[01:15:11] Speaker C: I. I didn't even remember that they were cursing earlier that season. So when I heard him say, in the sea, I said, wait, even the
[01:15:18] Speaker B: kids, they're cursing in this show? Yes.
[01:15:21] Speaker C: Yeah, they were letting it fly. But it's kind of funny because I remember, like, yeah, when I was a kid, I think I was, like, 13, something like that. But them, they're, like. They're, like, kind of younger. So they were. They were going, why?
[01:15:32] Speaker A: Why do they get to say bad words and I don't.
[01:15:34] Speaker C: Right.
[01:15:37] Speaker A: All right. So we see Hopper digging in the pumpkin fields. And then we're back at the cabin. 11 has come across Terry Ives. File begins to read, learns about Jane, who was taken away from her mother when she was a baby. Eleven finds a photo of Brenner, and Terry whispers, papa Walt. Before sliding her finger over to Terry. Then looks over to a small radio, turns it on until she finds static. Blindfolds herself, holds onto the photo. She holds it up to her heart. It's the cutest thing. And then inside the void at Dreamscape, eleven approaches Terry, who's in her rocking chair, mumbling to herself. As Eleven gets closer, she hears her mumbling the words Rainbow. Three to the right, four to the left. 45. And then her eyes open, and she looks at Eleven and whispers.
[01:16:17] Speaker B: Jane.
[01:16:17] Speaker A: Eleven whispers. Mama touches Terry's hands. And then terry dissolves as 11 cries for her. And then back in the cabin, we just see 11 continuing to cry and yell for her mom. It's so sad.
[01:16:30] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[01:16:31] Speaker C: So Emily was acting down, too. Like, her and Noah were, like, they're acting their asses off, literally, like, this episode in this season. And it's. And it's interesting, especially when, like, she just had this big conflict with like her father figure, this episode. So then to like, have her go to her mom or, like, find information about her mom. Yeah, it's just interesting because she's finding somebody trying to find the other part of her parent life that she was neglected to. To have because obviously Hopper's not here. And plus three on the outs.
And even though she cleaned everything up to please him, when he comes back, it's like she's obviously still wants to find that missing part and to like, see that she obviously using her powers and finding out, like, the depths of it, like, she can also find somebody, like, locate this person.
I remember seeing this and being like, so intrigued if they were ever, like, expand. Because one of the most interesting things to me about Stranger Things is like this science about it. Like, what? Like, how do they determine what kid is. Is, you know, I guess can do these powers and his abilities and, you know, the fact that she was able to find her mom and her mom is still alive and somehow is like, not fully aware, but, like, has a connection with L. To where she's able to say, like, say, Jane. That was. It was just. I liked it as scene.
[01:17:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that was a great scene.
[01:17:37] Speaker A: So then at the buyers, Mike is knocking on their door and asks about Will. Joyce tells him that he's not feeling well. Mike's like, is it about the shadow monster? And Joyce is like, hang on, you haven't information. And then at the lab, the agents escort Nancy and Jonathan Jonathan to their car.
[01:17:51] Speaker B: Jonathan starts right up.
[01:17:53] Speaker A: What? Jonathan? Jonathan.
[01:17:55] Speaker B: Jonathan.
[01:17:57] Speaker C: Jonathan.
Nancy.
[01:17:59] Speaker A: Nancy. Nancy and Jonathan.
They escort them to the car. It starts right up because, you know, of course it does, because they hijacked it before. In the car, Nancy pulls out her Walkman, where she hits play on her recording of everything that Owens said, highlighting the part where Owens, on behalf of lab, claims responsibility for Barb's death. Jonathan asks if she still wants to do this. And she says, let's burn this lab to the ground.
[01:18:25] Speaker B: That's Karen Wheeler's daughter.
[01:18:29] Speaker A: Yup.
[01:18:30] Speaker B: Ted, Karen
[01:18:34] Speaker A: at the Hendersons. Mrs. Henderson is calling for Mew Mew. She's pours his food in his bowl. And instantly we're like, oh, I got a bad feeling about this. Dustin comes racing in, goes into his room to check on Dart. He's like, hey, Dart, gotta talk to you, buddy. It's about Will. He pulls off the covering, covering the terrarium, sees that the glass is shattered on the side and Dart is gone, leaving a gross, gooey bit of skin behind. He hears a much larger Dart Sounding screech from behind him. Turns to see blood on the floor and a munching sound. He follows the blood behind the couch to see a cat sized dart feeding on poor Muse. This is the categorgon is what they call it. Dart sees Dustin, wags his tail and then his face opens up and we're like, oh. And even Dustin is like, I done must stop a. A Ron in the field.
He did in the field. Hopper's been making progress, has dug a huge hole. He hits something that squelches and sees that the dirt begins to kind of cave in. He pokes at it some more until he creates a hole. Then he jumps in with no way out and no one that knows he's there. And he's in the tunnels in Will's dream. And the air is full of spores and we. We're like, oh, shoot, he's in the upside down. And in case we weren't aware of that, the episode ends with the camera tilting upside down as Hopper goes.
I don't know if you guys noticed what the sound effect was the very end of the episode. Did you guys pay attention?
[01:20:02] Speaker C: Wasn't like. Was it like a clock?
[01:20:03] Speaker A: It's a clock. A clock goes dong. It was like a bell chime at the very end.
[01:20:10] Speaker C: Yes.
Everything's coming. Alignment.
[01:20:16] Speaker A: All right, well, that's the end of the episode. And that was so fun having you on Naj. You have to come back for season three.
[01:20:24] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes.
[01:20:25] Speaker A: So let us know if you have a favorite episode you in particular want to talk about. Let us know and we'll. We'll pencil you in. I'm taking requests right now. At some point I'll have to just, like, throw you to the wolves and be like, well, you get what you get. You get whatever episode.
[01:20:38] Speaker C: And then the. Yeah, the episode. I can't wait to hear your opinions about that. That episode.
[01:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah, everyone keeps talking about that one.
[01:20:45] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's crazy. I, like, I feel like I didn't hate. I didn't hate it. Like, I didn't hate it. I just feel like it could have been just something that it was something for. L. I'll stand. I like that. Yeah, she deserves it.
[01:20:57] Speaker B: That's what Sarah says too.
[01:20:59] Speaker A: I'm very curious what our thoughts will be. It's like, I. It's the episode that everyone talks about how they don't like it or they didn't.
It's a skip episode, but everyone has brought it up and been like, oh, I can't wait for you guys. To talk about it. So I'm like, oh, if all this pressure.
[01:21:12] Speaker B: Funny how, like, the episodes that everybody hates are the ones that people talk about the most.
[01:21:16] Speaker A: It's because they want to hear other people hate on it.
[01:21:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:21:19] Speaker C: They want to see if that's the make it or break it of.
[01:21:21] Speaker B: But it's like it's living in your head rent free, but you hate it.
[01:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah, like that.
[01:21:27] Speaker C: I mean, I feel like that episode hate was just unwarranted sometimes because I'm
[01:21:30] Speaker A: just like, it's just the place.
[01:21:31] Speaker C: I like fun.
[01:21:32] Speaker A: It's just the placement. If they moved it somewhere else, I don't think it would have been a time.
[01:21:35] Speaker C: But that's like, sweep it around, y'. All.
[01:21:40] Speaker B: Y.
[01:21:40] Speaker C: Make it episode five.
It could have been good for episode five, though, like, with what was. Was being seen or maybe like, after six or. Yeah, something.
[01:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I know now that it's. Now that season five has come out, it's not the most hated episode anymore.
[01:21:53] Speaker C: It's. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
[01:21:58] Speaker A: All right, well, Naj, let us know where we can find you and listen to all your recaps.
[01:22:04] Speaker C: Yes. So I'm on Twitter bar. Barely. But that's not J. YT. And I'm on YouTube at not. I mean, I don't even know Nadia X.
Yeah, that. Or. Or is it just Naj nickname? Because I got terminated for stranger things. Rex. I mean, Sailor Moon reactions, of course. Why? I don't know.
Copyrighted. Yeah, they did, like, a whole one day bump. That was like, 21 emails and, like, two minutes. They were like. They were, like, going against, like, every Sailor Moon, like, reactor or, like.
[01:22:37] Speaker A: Is that Netflix?
[01:22:37] Speaker C: That's just crazy. No, it was. It was T O E. I. I don't know the full name of that, but it's like, obviously anime company, so they were, like, getting everybody out of here. So, yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.
I'll probably try to find more Supernatural shows to watch. I will not be watching Supernatural, though. On 15 seasons. No, ma'.
[01:22:53] Speaker A: Am.
[01:22:53] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:22:55] Speaker C: so if you want to see me sometimes drag show, sometimes make fun of. Oh, boy, I'm here.
[01:23:01] Speaker B: She's hilarious. Best reaction.
[01:23:03] Speaker A: We love Naj.
[01:23:05] Speaker B: So funny.
[01:23:06] Speaker A: But yeah, go give Naj a listen and enjoy her reactions. And I'll go ahead and, like, post some links at the bottom of this video or of the episode too, so you guys can know where to find her and stuff. But, yes, let us know what episode you guys would like to hear. Naj come back for in season three if you guys have any requests. Wow. Maybe we can pitch that to Naj. Will, I'll be your manager. I'll be like the people have requested.
All right, guys, thanks so much for listening. Let us know your thoughts. Do you guys see the tension between Billy and Steve? Do you guys, are you guys with me on that train? Are you on with Leia on that train? Do you ship dart and dust it? Just kidding.
[01:23:46] Speaker B: Fatherly, brotherly father.
[01:23:51] Speaker A: What do you guys think between Hopper and Lynn? There's a lot of like crazy things that happened this episode. We want to know your thoughts. As always, thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email
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[01:24:22] Speaker C: Sam.
