[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: And if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Hey, guys.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we're talking about season two, chapter five, Dig Dug, originally entitled the Storm, written by Paul Dichter, directed by Andrew Stanton, aired October 27, 2017. And today we have Jesse on from a Charmed podcast, which is very different for us. We were actually just talking about how Leia has never seen all of Charmed, and we were telling her she definitely has to. They actually make a couple Buffy references, which is really fun. It feels like a little like in universe, wink and nod. But Jess, welcome. Welcome to our podcast.
[00:01:19] Speaker C: Hi. Yes. Thanks so much for having me on here.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: Very excited to talk about this.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: I know. Well, and you were telling me that you've never seen Stranger Things before or like you had seen maybe the first season and then had kind of just, you know, had life get in the way. But you. Then you were telling me over DM that you've been like, catching up with this show up to, I think. Did you. Did you watch past this episode or if you only watched up to the episode?
[00:01:45] Speaker C: I haven't yet. I didn't want to go ahead because I was really afraid that then I was going to end up talking about things after by accident. So I was like, let me stop at this episode. But I definitely planned plan on picking back up this weekend and watching more. So.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So tell us a little bit about yourself, about your podcast, and then you can talk about what you've been thinking about Stranger Things so far.
[00:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm Jess.
My podcast is Rewitched, where, like Sarah said, it is a Charmed re watch podcast. I'm currently getting very close to being done with going through. I'm well into season seven at this point out of the eight seasons.
Outside of podcasting, I work as a writing professor, so that's kind of what I do in my other time, which also means I'm on summer break right now, which is awesome. I've been nice, very much anticipating that.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:42] Speaker C: And in terms of Stranger Things, I did see, I believe, the first two seasons originally when it was coming out, I then kind of fell off because it was having very long breaks between seasons, I feel like.
And then I just never finished it. But now I think I might because I was really enjoying this watch.
I remember it being kind of one of those first Shows that I was binge watching when it was kind of starting up as a thing with Netflix and then watching it again. This time I watched the first episode and I was like, oh, you know, like, it's all right. Then I put on episode two, and from there I was just like, kept watch all night because I got really into them and they set the episodes up to be continuous. Like, I feel like they always have these little cliffhangers at the end. They don't want you to stop after one episode.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I think Netflix. Well, we've talked about how Stranger Things was one of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't the first. I think maybe the third. But releasing the whole season in one batch, I feel like was kind of Stranger Things.
It started that whole thing and also like the whole idea of binge watching. We didn't really think about binge watching a whole lot before that because episodes coming out weekly, you just never really sat down to watch the entire thing until after. Sometimes the show had been aired and then you would buy the whole box set. But now it's like, it's something we're so used to and I'm actually.
We've been.
The show me and my husband have been watching, it is going back to like a weekly format and I've now caught up, so I'm watching it on a weekly basis. And I was saying that I kind of missed that. I find that I absorb the material a little bit more and I actually, like, I know that that's my only episode for the week, so I'm really sitting there and I'm just taking it all in and soaking it in because I know I can't just go automatically to the next one. So it's giving me a new appreciation for the format, even if it does drive me nuts.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: But that's been me with Euphoria right now, too.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: Dude. Okay.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: Every week.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: I don't know, Jess, if you've seen Euphoria, I haven't, but I. I know enough about it. What did you think of the finale, Leia?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: I thought it was good. It was really sad. I don't know. This last season was really weird. Like it was just a bizarre season.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I've heard.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: It's not like the first two seasons. It feels like a different show with the same characters, but, like, it's a five year time jump. So obviously things are going to be very different.
I just thought they, like. I think they wrapped up Rue's story, like the main character story really well.
But I feel like everyone else kind of got the short end of the stick a little bit, but I don't know, it was just fun. Like, the one thing, though, that I will say about the weekly format is that spoilers are insane online. Yeah. Like, it's actually so rude how literally, as soon as the episode in, like, the first time zone in the world that watches it, as soon as they're done watching it, they start posting spoilers everywhere. You cannot go online, and it's really frustrating. But it has been really fun to, like, tune in every Sunday. But it's done now, so. Yeah, now I'm just gonna wait for yellow jackets to come back, and that'll be really fun.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: I know there are some people that literally, when a new episode airs, will go and jump to the last 15 minutes, whatever, of the episode without, and film it or grab it, upload it, because they know they'll get the likes and the views and stuff. I know. It's like, anytime there's something that's highly anticipated, I feel the need that I have to, like, go buy a ticket and watch it in theaters immediately or I have to watch it, or else I'm gonna get it spoiled, and I just won't have that experience. And it's a little annoying.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: For sure.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Even last night, because, like, I'm watching Love island usa, I'm very into it.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: I got home late. I was like, I can't open TikTok. I can't open Instagram, or I'm gonna know what happened.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Well, cool.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: I. I am very excited to hear your future thoughts on the show as you go through it. So we'll have to have you back and then let you tell us, but. Okay. So what are your thoughts on season two so far?
[00:06:44] Speaker C: So, so far I'm enjoying season two. I think that everything that's going on with Will, I'm just fascinated because I remember nothing of where the storyline is going. So I'm like, what is happening to this kid? He's, like, sick. I'm scared he's gonna die. Especially at the end of the episode. I watched for this. I'm like, I have to pick up the next one.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a nasty cliffhanger for this one.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: I'm also really enjoying Nancy and Jonathan kind of, like, going off on their own adventure. I think that that's really interesting. And the way that they kind of secretly recorded was that in the last episode, I think that that happened.
And I'm like, ooh. So they're actually like, taking a big part in this season. And I'm also liking everything that's going on in terms of the friend group and them forming this connection with Max. I'm really interested in her as a character.
It's also fun because I feel like I've seen Sadie sink in other things more recently, and I'm like, oh, my God, she's a baby.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: She really is. Yeah. She's so good, though.
[00:07:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm enjoying her a lot.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: All right, well, let's jump into it and talk about it. So the title of the episode is taken from the 1982 arcade game, which we talked about back in the first episode, Mad Dig Dug, in which the eponymous player's character digs underground tunnels where he defeats monsters. It might refer to events in the episode. And we talked about how, like, the Duffers foreshadowed a lot of the events of the season just by showing us arcade games.
Dig Dug is the first of two consecutive episodes directed by Andrew Stanton. Which is interesting because typically what's been happening is episodes three and four have been directed by Shawn Levy, so the Duffers will have more time to write. This is the first time that this breaks that mold, and we have someone other than the Duffers or Shawn Levy directing. So Stanton is known for writing and directing several Pixar films. He was a big fan of the series and contacted executive producer Shawn Levy to express interest in taking part of the second season. Matt Duffer recalls saying, andrew, I couldn't believe it. He called Sean up and said, hey, if you need a director, I'm in. We learned how to screenwrite by studying the Toy Story screenplay, which Andrew co wrote, and Wall E, another great film that Andrew wrote. Structurally, they're a dream. He's an incredible storyteller. There's a precision to his filmmaking that is amazing to me. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he comes from an animation.
He storyboards literally everything. Every sequence, every dialogue sequence. You just don't see that in tv. There's a choice behind every single shot. So Anderstan and I. I want to say I. And I've. I've said this on here before. I'm not a huge fan of the Duffers directing style. I think they're a little green, and I think they're a little boring. It tends to be one shot, one shot, pull out, and that's it. There's not a lot of flavor to the way they do things. And I'm finding that when I'm analyzing a TV show or Even a movie, the way that the director chooses to set up shots and frame things tells a story just as much as the words that are coming out of the actors mouths. And so a lot of times when I'm watching a scene or an episode that the Duffers have directed, I find myself a little bored sometimes because it seems to be very surface level, like we're just analyzing what the, the characters are saying. We're not actually getting any sort of subliminal like sub messaging or anything like that with the way that the scenes are set up. So I have loved Shawn Levy's directing style, but I, as soon as I found out that Andrew Stanton has a Pixar background makes so much sense because there's a humor to this episode with the way things are framed and a sinister ness too that I think comes across because he's had to convey so much through animation.
And I just, I, I absolutely adored this episode. I think this might be the best episode of the season so far in my opinion at least.
But yeah, so anyway, and then here's, here's the interesting part.
So. Andrew Stanton is best known as the director and co writer of the Pixar animated films Finding Nemo, Wall E, Finding Dory. He also directed and co wrote the live action film John Carter for Walt Disney Pictures and directed the live action film in the Blink of an Eye for Searchlight Pictures for Pixar. Stanton was additionally the the co director and co writer of A Bug's Life, the co writer of each of this Toy Story films and Monsters Inc. And occasionally a voice actor for various films. Most notably, he voice acted Crush the Turtle from Finding Nemo. So I don't know. Leia's probably never seen.
[00:11:16] Speaker B: I've seen it.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: But one of his early gigs in the 1980s involved animating sperm for a sex ed film with Martin Short called the Making of Me, originally produced for Disney's Wonders of Life Pavilion, which hilarious.
So after being Rejected by Disney three times, Stanton was hired by Pixar's animation group in 1990 as its second animator. John Lasseter was the first. John Lasseter is another big Pixar person.
Back then Pixar was not yet an animation studio and their animation group was dedicated to making television commercials as a step towards their goal of making the first computer animated features. So Stanton, Laster and Pete Docter. Pete Docter is the director of what's Inside Out. Pete Docter drafted the original treatment for Toy Story, which bore little resemblance with the eventually finished film. After production of the film was Shut down. In late November 1993, following a disastrous test screening, Stanton retreated into a windowless office and extensively reworked the script with his co writer. Now, Leia, can you guess who that co writer is?
[00:12:23] Speaker B: Joss Whedon.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: Joss Whedon.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: I was going to ask.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Yep. So he worked extensively with Joss, but Joss and Andrew Stanton are the reason why Pixar is the way it is today.
But, yeah, so Joss. He's worked with Joss Whedon, which I thought was like, all roads lead back to Joss Whedon.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Literally, all roads fucking lead back to Joss Whedon. He's like, in every crevice.
He's like the upside down of.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: He's the shadow monster.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: He's the Demogorgon, just everywhere.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: But it's so funny because often times I'll be like, oh, my favorite movies. And I'll look up and who. Who is it?
Or script doctored. It's Joss Whedon. I'm always like, dang, like, toxic person. But I just really love his writing style.
Anyway, the resulting screenplay of Toy Story was obviously nominated at the Academy Awards for Best Original Screenplay, the first nomination in that category for an animated film.
And then Stanton gave this episode's production crew custom made beanies with images of the players char in the game Dig Dug, which the episode is obviously named after. And then binoculars symbolizing the second episode he directed in the Spy, which I thought was really cute.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: That's cute.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: I want a custom.
[00:13:40] Speaker A: I know, right?
So, okay. And then we have a little thing that we've just started doing where I go onto Reddit and I read through the comments from people who are originally watching the show back in 2017 and not obviously seen anything else, because they're actually really hilarious.
So here are the comments about this episode. I know Mew Mew and Harambe are in heaven somewhere, running around free without any gun. Tony grand oppressors.
That Damn gorilla. It's 2017. That is the most 2017 thing I think I've ever read.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: One of the first. Like, I feel like that was an Internet meme that just never ended.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: You know, everyone talking about the timeline jumped after Harambe was killed.
[00:14:32] Speaker C: Literally my entire college dorm in 2016, 2017, was decorated with, like, Harambe stuff.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Oh, that's so funny.
That's hilarious.
Then someone else said, sean Astin is seriously fucking playing an amazing dork right now.
Someone else said, I'm loving Bob more and more. Please don't die a horrific death, someone says. And then in response to that, Guys, this isn't Game of Thrones. Have any of the characters we really liked ever died? In Stranger Things. Oh, our dear, sweet summer child Dustin sang to Mike's dad what we all want to say to him. And someone else said, exactly the voice of reason here. Someone says, almost makes up for the Razor Demogorgon as a pet thing.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Almost.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: And then someone else commented and says, man, you can cut this. That sexual tension with a knife, clearly.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Which sexual tension referring.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Oh, see, you don't know. I was like, isn't it obvious?
Someone commented and said, I know. Dustin and Steve are the new power couple.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: No,
[00:15:44] Speaker B: that's his mother.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: But, yeah, Highly, highly recommend reading the Reddit threads. They're so entertaining and highlight of my episodes. All right, okay, so just lastly, a lot of the reviews I read through this said that they felt like this was a weak episode. And I'm curious what you guys think. Did you guys like the episode or did you feel like it was weak?
[00:16:13] Speaker C: I really liked the episode. I mean, I thought that it was giving us a lot of, like, things that I feel like we're gonna need to move forward.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:24] Speaker C: I mean, I don't want to say it all right at the top, but I feel like, in terms of one kind of getting Steve in on the adventure since, like, Nancy are broken up now, that's getting added in here.
We have the whole. Actually going into Will's vision and then it affecting him is obviously gonna be important going forward.
We have all the stuff with the boys kind of on their own paths, and I'm assuming gonna come back together after this. But also, I think getting Max into things potentially here, expanding some of her background. I really liked Lucas's family in this episode. I feel like we got a lot of really good stuff.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: I don't know.
I think this episode, for me, had great moments, but overall, I just found it a bit lacking in.
I don't know, it didn't hold my attention. I felt like. Like other episodes. Like, I think last episode was really, really good. I think. Yeah, I think the last episode, they
[00:17:29] Speaker A: all start to blend together after a while.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I just felt like this episode was, like, obviously, like we're learning new things and it's moving things along. I just.
I don't know, There was just something about it that I was just not, like, locked in, you know? But that saying that. I do think there were a lot of really great moments. Like, 11 going to see her mom. Yeah, that was really heartbreaking. And then I really.
I really am Starting to love, like, Nancy and Jonathan's entire dynamic. I think that's really interesting, and I'm excited to see what happens with that.
Obviously, Steve and Dustin. I'm very excited to dive into that.
I thought Bob was great. Like, the sequence where he just kind of jumps in and helps them solve the puzzle.
He's really great, and I feel like he's gonna become a little bit more integrated. And then obviously they finally tell Max what's happening. So I'm, I guess this episode made me excited for stuff that's gonna happen later, but not necessarily this episode itself, if that makes sense.
[00:18:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
A lot of people felt like Elle's story should have been an A or B plot and not just a C or D plot.
A lot of people feel like Elle has been put on the back burner this season a lot and are kind of ready to see more of her.
I, I, I loved this episode. I, I think that oftentimes with Stranger Things, because it is so serialized, there isn't necessarily one particular theme for each episode. You kind of have to look for the.
Which sometimes is hit or miss as well. But for this one, a few things jumped out for me. So we've heard the mantra, it's been a big thing for the show so far is Friends don't lie. This episode kind of takes that mantra from a very childlike saying and updates it for the kids that are growing up and making it more of what counts as a lie. Can I tell the truth in a different way? How watered down can you make the truth before it's not the truth at all? Is it something? Is it sometimes more loving to lie or withhold the truth when the outcome is a, is more truthful than if you were to just say the truth right up front? Does motivation matter when you're lying, when you're not telling the truth? So this season is all about transition and everyone realizing that life is not going back to normal, whatever that used to be, and trying to find a new normal going forward that isn't just suppressing everything that came before it. Because that's the thing that, like, we've, we're watching Nancy and Joyce and others and Hopper even really wrestling with is this feeling like we can't go back to normal, but we also can't let people know what's happening. So how do we find a way to balance that out? And, you know, like, we've had Hopper really wrestling with the fact that he can't give Elle any more information, can't give her more of a normal life because, you know, she has to remain hidden. Joyce can't include Bob. Lucas can't include Max. And so this episode for me, was a little bit cathartic because people were being let in on the secret. And so it was kind of nice to be like, okay, now we can kind of get into the action because all the players are here now, you know, but, like, a big part of it is, like, reality. And I, I, it kind of hit me as I was, like, researching for the episode. Reality has kind of shifted for these characters. I mean, imagine if you found out that a whole other dimension exists and different creatures exist, and it's impacting your children, your friends, and you have these weird, bizarre things that are starting to come over the vines, the Demogorgons, all that stuff that's actually insane. Right. And so there's, there's kind of repercussions to that. Joyce telling Bob that they're not a normal family, and him kind of getting that this episode will realizing that he's connected to the shadow monster. Lucas realizing that if he wants a chance with Max, he's going to have to tell her the truth. Obviously, Nancy and Jonathan, both of them going, we can't just live like this. We have to do something. So they take their stuff to Murray. And this can be a metaphor for adolescence. It also adds weight to Lucas asking Max if she accepts the risk.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Risks.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: And Joyce trying to keep pure, sweet Bob out of everything upside down. Related. They all recognize that their reality has shifted. And if they are to tell anybody these people that they love, they're going to be, like, changing their reality as well. And that's not always a good thing. Sometimes that's very painful. I think the big thing for them is, like, how do we protect ourselves and our friends if we can't tell them the truth?
And then is how we tell the truth important? And that's kind of a theme throughout this, this episode. And I'll highlight, like, the specific instances where they talk about that. But I thought that was really interesting. And I think that's a very strategically or a strategic theme to place in the middle of the season. Because this is, this, is this episode where I think everything kind of shifts. All the characters know now we're gonna get into the action of the season. I always much prefer the second half of the seasons when things are happening versus the setup, because I find it takes a long time. But, yeah. So anyway, I'll, I'll highlight it when we get to it, but. All right. Jumping into the episode, we're at the Byers, and it's evening, and Joyce is trying to get a hold of Jim again, because like an idiot, he took off and didn't tell her where he was going or what he was doing. She's just waiting. She hangs up, grabs one of the last pictures, and is walking around the house trying to, like, match it. And I was like, it's crazy to me that they're looking at this and they're like, oh, yeah, clearly, they're the shared. There should be a gap between these two pieces of paper. I was like, how in the world.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: For me, it was very much, like, reminiscent of her with the lights last season. I'm like, this house is just a mess again. And it was getting like that meme with Charlie Day where he just has all the things on the board.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Yeah, the conspiracy.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: So true.
Yes. Well, and it's funny, too, like, the parallels, because you have Murray with his red string board later on, too. And then later I was like, wait,
[00:23:12] Speaker C: no, it's Murray who said Charlie Day.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:23:17] Speaker B: I just don't understand how they're. How they've built this. Like, there's no way.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: No.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: No logical way ever could have done that. Like, no, there's just a million papers, and they're like, oh, yeah, we're just gonna put this puzzle together.
[00:23:30] Speaker C: Like, how A lot of them are just like.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: It's just landing.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: It's like this line goes here. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: How do you know which direction it's even supposed to be facing? There's no way to know what's up and what's down. I know last episode when Joyce was like, oh, look, they overlap. We're like, girl, how?
[00:23:46] Speaker C: How?
[00:23:46] Speaker B: There's no way.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Whatever. You know, where there's a Will, there's a way. Apparently, according to IMDb, it's shown but not stated that Will's drawing is so large he actually uses up all the paper in the house. They included little details like Bob has to do his calculations on an empty notepad, and Joyce marks Hopper's location on the back of some wrapping paper because there's no more paper in the house anyway. All right, so now we're in Will's room, and there's a very sweaty Will telling Mike about how he feels when the shadow monster.
How he feels, what the shadow monster feels and sees what he's seeing. That some of him is in the upside down, but also here in the right side up, Will is the picture of somebody whose reality has shifted, and they're Using him to kind of demonstrate how the rest of the characters are feeling on a very literal level for him, obviously.
He says it's like he's reaching into Hawkins, and the more he spreads, the more connected I feel. At first, I just felt it in the back of my head. I didn't even really know it was there. It's like when you have a dream and you can't remember it unless you think really hard. But now it's like, I remember, remember all the time. Mike says that maybe it's good because he's a spy now, and that if he knows what he's thinking and feeling, maybe that's how they can stop him. Will's like, you really think so? Mike's like, yeah, I really do. Will looks at the picture of the shadow monster and says, what if he figures out we're spying on him? What if he spies back? Mike says, he won't. And when Will asks how he knows, Mike grabs his hand and says, we won't let him. Mike's being very optimistic, but a little naive because Mike.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: Hey, it's true, though, because Mike said it.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it's true. Mike says it makes it true.
[00:25:20] Speaker C: Factual.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's a fact, actually. Funny. No spying.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Monster property master Linda Rice created the actual drawings that Joyce hangs throughout her home. As she tries to puzzle out the meaning behind him, she says, the tunnel drawings in the house, we created thousands and thousands of them, Rice says, trying to figure out what they were, how big they were, what they look like, the color of them, and what they mapped out, how they all fit together, what they were made of. That was a good four months of my life.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Surely there was an easier way to do this.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: No. No cgi. Could you imagine them CGI ing all the paper?
[00:25:58] Speaker C: Oh, my God, Yeah.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Why wouldn't you just, like, make a puzzle? Like, make a picture? Like, surely you can, like, print out a puzzle on the computer. You would have to figure it out for you.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: That requires mapping it out, too.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Yeah, but if it goes one by one, you just put them in order.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that. That would be what they would have to do. They'd have to figure out what the drawing is going to be and. But then you have to. It's not like you're laying it out on the floor. You have to figure out how to make it arrange around the house. Yeah, that's pretty complex.
They say that there. They were. An enormous undertaking, too, for production designer Chris Trujillo and the other members of the art department who were Tasked with crafting roughly 80,000 square feet of tunnels on a vast, empty soundstage. I think your average show would have just green screened all of that, Trujillo says. We ended up actually physically realizing thousands of square feet of tunnels. We built multiple sections and half sections and points where multiple tunnels converge. It was really important to the duffers that we build all of that stuff and have it be real and have the actors in real physical spaces. The tunnels were built from a series of 6 to 14 foot diameter wooden ring sets that were elevated at different heights to give them what Trujillo calls an undulating architecture. We had chambers that broke apart in multiple pieces for shooting, adds art director Sean Brennan. We had access bays that were on chain motors that opened up so the camera could get inside and be able to shoot. Everything was constructed with the purpose of being shot. A full sized human could run through there, no issue. We had an overall idea that essentially they went on for infinity. Nobody knows how far these tunnels actually were. And there's some really cool behind the scenes photos of the cast sitting in these tunnels.
[00:27:37] Speaker C: I mean, the tunnels were beautiful.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: They're very, very beautiful.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: They were a highlight of the episode for me. Just seeing how intricate and just pretty they were. Even the gross parts, when he's digging through it, I was like, I'm loving everything about this. And it felt real. It didn't feel cgi. And now knowing this background of how they were constructed makes a lot of sense of why I felt so in that moment with Hopper.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Yeah, well, even the spores are real too. I think dandelion puffs and seeds were what they used for the spores and that little ash, like things floating in the air. But we talked about it in season one. All of the scenes of the Upside down were actual effects, the practical effects that they used.
[00:28:24] Speaker C: And it also gives more of that 80s vibe that the show is so much tried. Yeah, as well.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Very true. Yeah.
So in the tunnels, Hop is just breathing in spore air, like nothing. Just panting away down there. He's investigating, hearing noises, sees the vines spreading. He ends up getting sprayed by some particularly nasty spores, which take him down. He's hacking and coughing his way down the tunnels, and then he collapses on the floor, unconscious. And we see the opening above him closing up and we're like, okay, Will, is it gonna become like Will, is he gonna start barfing out little. Little dart muffins?
[00:28:59] Speaker B: He's literally like. He's the one that's like, like doing everything.
He's. He's the one that's like, taking action and saving everybody. We need him. Yeah, I know.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: We need him. Literally for the plot and, like, sanity.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I need him.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: So at the motel, I was like, ooh, one bed trope. Nancy and Jonathan pull on into a motel, looking super awkward. As they ring the bell. This lady doesn't even look at them until Nancy's like, we'd like a room. And then she's like, we got those. And then she looks Jonathan up and down, and she's like, you want to sit single or a double? And I was like, sheesh. Go back to your soaps, Patrice. Nancy and Jonathan are both, like, a double. And they, like, move away from each other, and she stares at them and she's like.
And then cut to them in their separate beds.
Jonathan asks if she wants the lights on and off. And Nancy's like, oh, remember the last time we did this? And then it asks him if he thinks it's weird that they only hang out when the world is going to end. I was like, ooh, that's interesting. They then compare their butter knife scars. Do you remember when the guys, they cut their hands with butter knives?
[00:30:02] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: You're like, yes.
[00:30:06] Speaker C: Horrible.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: Find scissors or something. Nancy's like, mine's bigger. Jonathan's like, all right. Then they have a moment, probably reminiscing the last time they, you know, were holding hands. And then they go back to their separate beds, still facing one another, and Nancy asks Jonathan what happened to them, saying that after everything, he just disappeared. I was like, nancy, his brother came back. Steve also. And you were still with Steve. Yeah. Jonathan's like, well, Will needed me and Steve. And then Nancy says that she waited. And John, it's like, yeah, like a month.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Like, she's never.
Nancy is never gonna beat the she did not like Steve allegation.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: Gosh. She wouldn't say she loved him last episode, which. Okay, that reminds me, Jess, I thought it was really interesting that you pointed out that Nancy and Steve broke up, because that is a highly debated topic, because not everybody believed that they were broken up. And I feel like the show is kind of ambiguous about it.
[00:31:09] Speaker C: Yeah, because I felt like after they had that conversation where he.
After the party, and he's kind of like, oh, like, say you love me. And she like, won't. I was kind of like, okay. Like, they're broken up, though. In this episode, he is showing up with flowers and seems to want her back.
But I felt like they weren't together anymore, and it was kind of like getting her back as Opposed to just, like, fixing things after a fight.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Which I think is what this show want, like, in future events and stuff. I think that's what the show wants us to believe in stuff. But I. It's really interesting because I just. You don't really know where Steve's at. Like you were saying. It could be he get. He's getting her back, or it's. He's, like, just trying to make up after a fight.
So I don't know. It's. It's very, very hotly debated and contested on whether or not Nancy and Steve, like, they both were on the same page about being broken up or if that's something that, like, is a gray area.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: Is it from, like, shippers being like, oh, Nancy and Steve, like, should be together? Because I feel like whether they broke up or not, like, it's very clear that these two people are not compatible, right?
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Well, no, I think it is very clear, but I think that then things kind of get murky because now we have Nancy essentially making moves on Jonathan, and we're like, girl, are you single or are you not? You know? Yeah, Yeah. I don't know.
All right, so Nancy gets offended, rolls over, says she wants the lights off, and Jonathan's like, what did I say? Back in Will's room, he wakes up with a gasp. And Mike, who slipped over on the floor next to him, asks. Asks, what's wrong? Okay.
I'm not trying to start anything. I really, really am not. The shippers on this show are absolutely nuts and insane, and I'm not trying to poke a bear.
I'm not. I'm not. But I will say there are some very interesting parallels to Mike and Will and Jonathan and Nancy. And there have been a couple in the past episode, past few episodes, with Mike constantly being there for Will. He's the one person that consistently snaps Will out of his nightmares in the Upside.
Um, and then also now we have the parallels of Mike sleeping on the floor in Will's room, Jonathan and Nancy in the beds and all that stuff, not saying it necessarily has to mean anything. And maybe I'm spoiled from Buffy and Angel, where, like, framing has significance with everything. And Stranger Things isn't as detail oriented, but that feels like an intentional choice, especially after the emphasis on hands. There are three couples. Well, two couples in this episode, maybe one that could be argued as a couple. Three different instances of hands, and direct camera focus on those hands. So you have Jonathan and Nancy. You had Mike grabbing Will's hand, and they focused on that. And Then you have Lucas holding or Max holding Lucas's hand. And normally that feels like an intentional choice. And you would typically do parallels like that to convey that this is supposed to be a romantic ship. So I'm not saying it's necessarily anything, but I'm pointing out that that's a very interesting thing and I'm not trying to start a ship war, but I'm just noting it for now and we will discuss it as time.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: I mean, really, Mike, one track minded?
11, 11, 11 Wheeler.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Oh, I'm not saying Mike necessarily thinks it's romantic.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: But I think that there's, he's, he's
[00:34:37] Speaker B: just 11, 11, 11, 11, 11.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: It's so true.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think that that's part of why before you pointing that out, I didn't even see it because even when he was talking to Max, it was just like 11, 11, 11.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: One track mind.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: And I'm not saying, again, I'm not saying that that's necessarily a thought in the character's minds, but there is a huge part of the fandom that ships Mike and Will together. And I've never actually, I've always felt like it was very one sided and I thought it was interesting. In this, in, in this sequence, you don't typically see young boys grabbing other boys hands, except if it's in a romantic situation scenario. And then I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then it happened two more times with two other couples. So either Andrew Stanton just really likes that little trope or they're trying to make an intentional parallel with the different characters. But time will tell. I just wanted to point that out. All right, so Mike and Will go into the living room. Joyce is meditating in a tunnel trance. I don't know, she's trying to decipher the meanings of the tunnels. Will tells Joyce that he saw Hopper, that he thinks he's in trouble, and that he thinks he's going to die in the tunnels. Hop wakes up, then promptly just vomits, grabs his hat and then realizes that the opening has closed up and then begins to tear off a piece of uniform to make a mask. I was like, Hopper, you should have done that. Like the moment you jumped in here.
He sees the tunnels branch in two different directions. So he pulls out cigarettes and uses them as breadcrumbs and picks a path. And then unbeknownst to him, we see that a vine is following him. We're like, cool, cool, cool, cool. That's sentient.
So then at the Sinclair home, this is the first time we've seen the Sinclair father and seen the whole family together and that we've seen this much of their house. And I gotta say, the set design is so beautiful that, like, butter yellow is such a beautiful color. I really, really loved that.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: That.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: Erica's slathering her French toast. Erica, I know your favorite. With a bunch of syrup. While Lucas is asking his dad what he does to make his wife not mad at him, Mr. Sinclair says, first, I apologize, then I get your mother anything she wants. Lucas is like, even when she's wrong, Mr. Sinclair lowers his paper. This is very Pixar. Lowers his paper, Makes eye contact and is like, she's never wrong, son. Ms. Sinclair is like, that's right. I was like, wow, can we see more of these instead of Ted and Karen's?
[00:37:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Dynamic, whatever that is.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Can Mr. Sinclair teach Ted some things?
[00:37:08] Speaker A: Literally?
[00:37:09] Speaker C: I love this family dynamic, and I love that what we've seen as the only family of color in town is the most healthy family dynamic we've seen.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:20] Speaker A: So Lucas has a light bulb moment, takes off, saying he's gonna go hang with Dustin. Erica takes advantage of her parents being distracted and just drowns her pancakes again.
[00:37:28] Speaker C: I like.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: She's like, like, sorry, no, you're not. No, you're not, Girl, eat your pancakes.
And then I just want to point out that this moment again continues the theme about how we communicate truth is just as important as the truth itself. Mr. And Mrs. Sinclair both know that she's not right all the time, but his way of communicating these things is through a way that she will accept it. Him communicating, hey, maybe you messed up or whatever is in a much gentler way. And that's just as important in what you're trying to say. It's concocting a story that she can accept, essentially, actually. And it's interesting. Erica smothering her pancakes and syrup is very. It's hilarious. But it's also a great way to visualize the whole spoonful of sugar. Makes the medicine go down. Watering down your vodka. It's this idea of, you know, they're still pancakes, but you're sweetening them so it's easier to eat them. And that's essentially what Mr. Sinclair is doing for Mrs. Sinclair. So it continues that theme throughout the episode. And I was like, oh, so good.
So we see Lucas ride past Dustin's house as Mrs. Henderson is out front calling for Muse.
[00:38:31] Speaker C: No, I was devastated. I was like, yeah.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: So was Reddit justice for Muse apparently is the new justice for Barb, this
[00:38:41] Speaker B: is all Dustin's fault, genuinely. Yeah.
Dustin, Muse, blood is on your hands.
[00:38:50] Speaker C: I was, like, so happy when we first saw the cat. And then I was like, oh, my God, they can't do this to me.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's interesting because Dustin, he's hilarious. But I think they're subtly showing how his arrogance is kind of coming back to bite him, which I think is really interesting.
Give our characters flaws. So then she comes back in the house, asks Dustin if he's sure that Muse isn't in his room, and promptly gets the I'm on the phone right now finger. Except we can hear the dial tone, and he's not actually on the phone with anyone.
And he's, like, thinking of Mr. McCorky and hangs up, tells his mom that he's. They saw Muse wandering around Locke, Nora that he'll stay there in case they call.
She's gonna go out and look. He's like, gentle parenting every single parent in this episode. He's like, hey, it's okay. We're gonna breathe. She's like, on having a panic attack, he's like, you're gonna go out, and I'm gonna stay here in case someone calls. She goes out, and then he does this panic sprint to go clean up the mess and catch a baby Demogorgon. We see him gear up with hockey equipment, open the outside cell trail of salami, before running to the outside shed with his hockey stick and waiting. We see Dart running out the front door, following the trail, but then getting distracted because he has a bond with Dustin. And Dustin ends up, you know, whacking Dart with the hockey stick straight into the root cellar, and then lays on it. It's like, sorry, you ate my cat.
So then we get our first L sequence.
She's going to her mom's house, and she's driving with a trucker who's super duper sweet. And he's like, 515 Larrabee, right? And then Elle corrects him and says, 5:15, because that's what Hopper told her time was. You don't say 515. They say 5:15. So she assumes that anytime, even on addresses. I thought that was a cute little detail she's learning.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: Yeah, cutie.
[00:40:44] Speaker A: So then she goes inside, or she ends up knocking on the front door. We hear Becky yelling for her to go away, thinking that she's a Girl Scout or, you know, a Mormon or selling them something. And Ellie uses her powers to unlock and open the door. And we immediately see Becky, like, connect all 15 bajillion dots. And be like, oh, shoot. Terry was actually right.
So she takes Elle into the living room where Terry is again reciting those Same words. Rainbow. Three to the right. For the left. 450. Breathe. Sunflower. Elle gets in front of her, calling her mama, saying, it's me, Jane. I'm here now. And she touches her. Terry makes eye contact, but only begins to recite the words again. And then Elle asks, asks Becky what's wrong with her. And you could just see that Becky's just heartbroken because she. She's like, this is the person that Terry's been waiting for and she's not even here to receive her. Essentially.
So sad. My God.
[00:41:31] Speaker C: Between that and the way, like Elle is so childlike in this scene and her approach and just everything about her looking at her mom and talking to her there, it just. It got me.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: I was like, oh yeah. One her saying it's me, Jane. Like she's owning her name.
So at Murray's house, I. I hate Murray with a passion. He was not so bad in this episode. I will say he wasn't so bad, but this is.
[00:41:58] Speaker C: I was gonna say I really enjoyed him in this episode. I don't know where things are going, but I was like, he's fun.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Yeah, he. He's a fun character for sure. Everyone seems to like him except for me. I don't mind him too much in this season.
[00:42:11] Speaker B: Ish.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: But yeah. Anyway. Spoilers. So Jonathan, Nancy, show up to this house that's basically turned into a bunker or compound at the front door. Words keep the door closed or spray painted on it. They buzz the buzzer. Murray tells them to look at the camera, and then he calls them by their first name so he knows who they are.
He says, you're a long way from home. Invites them in. His place is full on conspiracy theorists. Wet dream. Like, it's tons of computers, maps, papers, metal doors. It's essentially what Joyce Byers's home is going to become by season five.
Murray has a flag with a logo used by the militant leftist group the Weather Underground on his wall. This group was responsible for a series of bombings in the 70s and go way towards explaining his anti government paranoia.
So we don't know if he's a sympathizer or if he actually is affiliated with the group. But that seems right on brand with Marie and Nancy at this point too. He's like, I hope you didn't come here to tell me about the bear and the Harrington kids backyard. I've heard that one already. He's super arrogant. Shows him his literal red string board room, says he's followed up on 200 tips. He knows every last step Barbara took that day, every last person she talked to. Like, he's like, the answer is up there. And he's like, super confident. And Nancy, so good, yes. Tear him down a couple pegs. She's like, your timeline is wrong. And the girl with the buzzed hair, she's not Russian, she's from Hawkins Lab. And we see her point to the board where there's a drawing of El.
And he's just kind of gives her this look like, oh, you're the answer to all of my questions, literally. And Jonathan says, you might want to sit down for this. And Murray's like, oh, I'm so sad.
He's so ready. Honestly, if I had devoted, like a year of my life, I'd be like, please.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: Especially seeing that, like, he wasn't right about everything. I love the way that, like, Nancy points it out and then he just goes with it. Because you'd expect, like, this older man to be like, what is this little girl trying to tell me? But then him just being like, okay, like, fill me in. What are the true things here?
[00:44:10] Speaker A: It is pretty juicy, though, to see Nancy be like, correct him and everything. But that's also because I just don't like Murray. But it's my own personal chip on my shoulder. At the arcade, Billy drops off Max and is like, if you're not out in an hour. And Max like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Billy's like, hey, watch the attitude, bird. I was like, bruh, you have an attitude.
[00:44:29] Speaker C: He's the worst in every scene.
[00:44:32] Speaker A: I was gonna ask you, what do you think about Billy?
[00:44:34] Speaker C: Terrible every time he's on the screen. And I remember, like, back in the day, everyone, like, foughting over him because they think he's cute and stuff.
[00:44:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: And I'm sitting here and I'm like, but he's terrible. Like, every time he opens his mouth, I'm like, get off my screen.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: Genuinely. I don't think he's attractive much anymore because of how horrible he is. But that's also probably because we're older now too, and our frontal lobe has
[00:44:58] Speaker B: developed a personality can really make or break.
Like, how attractive somebody could be. Like, you could be the most good looking person. But if you. If you're terrible. Like, I think the thing with Billy is I think there's potential for him to be really interesting because I think terrible characters don't have to be like. Like, get off my screen, like, you can be a very terrible character and be really interesting. So I. I want to see, like, more of him being terrible. You know what I mean?
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Like, I want there to be. I. I don't know.
[00:45:30] Speaker B: Like, I don't know if I'm making sense, but.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you and I talked about. We want them to keep being terrible because they can be terrible people can be interesting.
[00:45:38] Speaker C: But right now, he's very one dimensional.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Like, I wish there would be more to it, you know? And I feel like obviously we keep seeing Billy, so he's. I feel like he's gonna be around, so I want to see more.
Like, I'm not saying I want to sympathize with Billy, but it's like, right now, he's just there to be an asshole.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:46:02] Speaker C: Like, all we've seen of him is that he's racist and an asshole to Max. And that's literally it. He has no other character traits.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: He kind of has a crush on Steve Harrington a little bit.
[00:46:17] Speaker A: I love how you've done a complete 180. I bring it up, you're like, no, I don't see it. I don't see it. And the next episode, you're like, all
[00:46:23] Speaker B: right, I'm on board.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: I fully get it.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: I mean, I almost forgot about the shower. Yeah, he wanted to hop on that, like, right there.
So he's like, pretty boy. Anyway,
[00:46:37] Speaker C: give us more of those scenes. That's interesting.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: I was literally saying that was the nicest he had been to anybody since he got there. And that wasn't even nice. He was, like, antagonizing Steve, but he was being kind of nice about it. Like, he was complimenting Steve. I don't know.
[00:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the thing with Billy is we've seen him a little bit each episode. We're on episode five now, and he's just done, like, a variation of the same thing. Thing, which is threatened Max.
And he. Other than his interactions with Steve, we haven't really seen him interact with any other character. So he just keeps coming in and mouthing off, and we're like, yeah, you're scary. But at this point, he's starting to lose his bite a little bit because it's like, we'll actually do something, follow through with it. Not that we want to see him, like, be mean or nasty, but the writers.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: I mean, I do.
[00:47:28] Speaker A: I mean, okay, yes. All right.
[00:47:30] Speaker B: But, like, let's go.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: I think that's one of the things that Stranger Things starts to suffer with from season two. Onward is it becomes very clear that they are not wanting to completely commit with certain storylines and certain characters until you get to the end of the season. They're trying to stretch things out as much as possible. The stuff with Elle is very interesting, but it's also very obvious that they don't want Elle with everybody else because who can. Who can kill the Demogorgons? Elle can. So we can't have L with everybody else or else it loses some of that tension. We can't have Billy follow through on his stuff at this point because it loses. I mean, I think we can, honestly, but I think that's what the Duffers are thinking, you know, so I'm like, okay, Billy actually, like, do something, Hit someone.
[00:48:11] Speaker B: I think it'd be interesting to have Billy getting involved in, like, the supernatural side of things where, yeah, he, like, finds out about it somehow, and then now Max knows and, like, he maybe puts a wrench in their plans because he's a piece of, like, stuff kind of like that where he's more involved in the main plot.
Yeah, I think would be interesting because he's such an antagonistic character that I feel like that would create a lot of tension for everyone else.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:42] Speaker B: Because everybody that we are with right now, like, they're very much on the same, like, wavelength. They're all on the same page in what they're doing. So to, like, bring someone in that's like a complete loose canon, I think would be really interesting to see.
[00:48:57] Speaker A: Yeah, he's kind of taken on Steve's role from season one, where he was outside the general plot. Like, he's outside the supernatural. He keeps. He kind of keeps the show very grounded in a lot of ways, because you have to have a threat that is non supernatural to kind of create those layers. But they need to. They need to show him interacting with other people and doing. Having more than just what he has been doing, but.
[00:49:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:21] Speaker A: All right, so inside of the arcade, Max sees that Dig Dug is out of order. And then Keith. Keith that runs the place is like, sorry, I got another one out back. He sketchily takes her to the back and she just follows him. I was like, hang on, Max. Stranger danger. But he unlocks.
Just call Billy.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:49:40] Speaker A: And then Lucas is there. Max is not happy to see him. Lucas has this goopy smile, like, hey, cheese puff. Keith is like, you better get me that date now, Sinclair. And Lucas is like, I told you I wouldn't. He's like, up. And he's like, keep things PG in here. All right? I was like, they're 11.
They, like, also calm down.
[00:49:58] Speaker C: Is he a grown man or also a teenager? Because, like, why is he trying to get a date with Nancy?
[00:50:05] Speaker B: I want to say he's a teenager. Yeah, but.
[00:50:08] Speaker C: Okay, I hope so.
[00:50:10] Speaker B: It's giving, like, Napoleon Dynamite. Honestly, it is a little bit.
[00:50:14] Speaker A: This actor plays basically the same character and everything I've seen him in. It's very funny.
So then he takes off. Max calls Lucas a stalker, says, this is creepy. Lucas says that he needed a safe space and that he's going to tell her the truth about everything that happened last year. But that. That if anyone finds out, she could be arrested or possibly killed. He says, I need to know. Do you accept the risks? Max thinks it's stupid. She rolls her eyes, but she says sure and fine, and that she accepts the risks. Lucas tells her that last year, Will didn't get lost in the woods. He got lost somewhere else else. Then we cut back to the buyers. Will is drawing yet another picture, this time of where Hopper is. Joyce and Mike take the photo and look around the house, Match it up to a place on the fridge, but have no clue, like, where that is, what's going on. And then Bob pulls up with a bunch of board games because he heard Will was sick. And he's like, sorry, I would have called you, but you said not to clog up the line. I was like, oh, this man is just, like, the sweetest thing ever. He, like, wants to be a dad so bad. It's so cute.
Joyce meets him outside and is like, we're fine. We don't need anything. Bob's like, when I was sick as a kid and I was sick all the time, nothing made me feel better than focusing on brain teasers. I can teach him. And Joyce is like, well, he's sleeping right now. Bob's like, okay, well, I can wait with you. And she's like, it's just not a good time. And that she'll call him, gives him a kiss, and he's like, are you sure? He's like, I. They don't call me Bob the Brain for nothing. And then Joyce is like, hang on. We need a brain right now.
So then we cut to Bob just standing there with his games and his brain teasers, just, like, staring at the walls, just taking it all in. And he's like, huh? And then he looks at Will and he's like, did you draw all this?
And he's like, why? Joyce's like, bob, you know the rules. We said no questions. So she takes him over to the fridge is like, we need to find where this is. And then draws an X. And Mike's like, yeah, that's the objective. Like, you know, pirate treasure and stuff. And Bob's like, oh, yay. And then he gets all excited, and then he realizes that everyone's taking this, like, Weir seriously. So he pulls Joyce aside and he's like, hey, you know you can talk to me, right? And she's like, yeah. Like, what's the problem? This is normal.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: He's gentle parenting her.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:52:21] Speaker A: And he's like, will doesn't look very well. You don't look well. What's going on? Is this another episode? And she denies it. He says he doesn't see how this is good for her or for Will. Then starts to say that he can't figure out anything without context. Context. And then he sees something and recognizes a ring of paper. And they all realize that it is a tunnel. It's a map of landmarks, essentially. And Bob's like, right, Will? And Will's like, yeah, definitely.
So then in the tunnels, Hopper is still stepping on squelching vines. He ends up finding, like, this, like, bone graveyard area area with a bunch of, like, small animal bones and animals that are, like, being held down by the vines.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: Vines.
[00:53:03] Speaker A: He uses his lighter to see and then notices that the vines don't like heat. So he ends up making a torch out of the bones and cloth and then tries to dig his way through the tunnel walls.
Back at the Henderson's house, think, you know, speaking of bones and small animals, Dustin is bearing muse, desperately trying to contact the rest of the party with a Code Red. That was one of the things I really liked about this episode. The transitions were really good. Each transition just flowed from one, one scene to the next. And that's not something Stranger Things always does very well. So it was refreshing.
But he's cleaning up the blood, calling for Code Red over and over again as we just see him, like, doing everything, trying to get a hold of Chief Hopper. Which I was like, you know what? Good for you, Dustin. I like that. As soon as he found out something was wrong, he goes and starts calling all the relevant people.
But lo and behold, who does he get a hold of?
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Ms. Erica.
[00:53:57] Speaker A: She's like, please shut up.
[00:54:00] Speaker B: She's right.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: She's like, you're ruining my playtime right now. And then she says that she doesn't know where Lucas is, she doesn't care about Lucas, and that he's not around, and she has a code for Dustin. It's Code, Shut your mouth. And then she turns off the walkie, and Dustin's like, well, I guess I'm on my own then.
[00:54:20] Speaker B: She's amazing.
[00:54:21] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:54:23] Speaker B: Shut your mouth.
[00:54:24] Speaker C: She is so funny.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Erica is so funny.
[00:54:27] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
Breakout character of the season for sure. Give me more. Erica.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:33] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: The confidence is unmatched. And I. I like that she's matching up with Dustin because this was Dustin this season. He needs someone to bring him down a few pegs. And Erica, I think we'll do that.
[00:54:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:54:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:47] Speaker A: So back at the Ives, Becky's trying to get info out of L from about where she's been. Elle's just staring at Terry, coming to terms with the fact that her mother isn't going to get better. Becky says she's not in pain, she's just stuck like a dream. El's in tears, asks if it's the same dream. And Becky says that she doesn't know that Sometimes she says different words. Then she reaches out across the table and says that Terry always believed that Elle would come home one day. And Elle reaches across and is like, home. Like, El's looking for home too. So then Becky takes Ellen to her baby room. Elle reaches into the crib, pulls out a stuffy, and whispers, pretty. I love that. Call back to season one. Such a significant word. It's the word she used for Nancy's room and for Nancy's wig and the way that Millie Bobby Brown conveys the words. It's like she's acknowledging the life that she should have had. But there's like a sadness there, as if she. She knows that that doesn't quite fit with who she is now. Like, she can't go back to that. It's just really sad.
[00:55:43] Speaker C: And especially with the fact that it's a baby's room she's looking at. Right. It's not like it's ever been updated for. For the fact that if she came back, she would now be an older girl.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Exactly.
And I. I just am really loving Elle's story this season. And we had talked about it at the end of season one. I was just. That was one of the things that I was not quite satisfied with with the ending of season one, because I feel like Elle hasn't had a chance to find her own identity outside of Mike, outside of who she is as 11. But now that she's finding Jane, Jane, the Persona Jane and all this other stuff, I'm really, really hoping that we're gonna get to see some more about who Elle slash Jane wants to be.
So then Becky says that she can get her a bigger bed. She can stay with her. She wants to. Elle nods, agreeing to that. Becca says she wants to help, but she needs Elle to talk to her when she's ready. And while they're talking, El sees the lights in the hall flickering. And Becky's like, oh, it happens. At times it's bad wiring, but according to crazy Aunt Shirley, it's haunted. And El sees the light is like flickering to different lights down the hall. So she follows the light trail where she sees the last light flicker next to where Terry's sitting. And she's like, it's Mama reaches out and wipes blood from Terry's nose and says she knows I'm here. And then the channel, the tv flips to static and Elle says she wants to talk. In the essay Revisiting the Monstrous Feminine. Because you know, y'. All. Y' all know I love that. The author says a note should be made about Elle's mother. Experimented on and left behind. She is a truly tragic figure. She feels the loss of Jane even 12 years later, refusing to take down the crib and mobile she lovingly set up for her baby. She is certain that Jane is still alive and she is correct. But she is ill equipped to care for her. Her psychic and emotional wounds are too deep. She is doomed to a motherhood in limbo, an abject motherhood, for she is mother and yet not her child, taken from her before she even had a child chance to hold her. And I find it so interesting that El doesn't ask for her father. It's her mother that she's very intent on finding. She seems to either accept Brenner or Hopper as. As father or father figures. And this isn't necessarily, again, new information, but it's really beautiful to see how Terry fought for her child and still is fighting for her daughter, even as she's not fully there.
And it fits perfectly with the themes of last season about motherhood and the idea of the upside down being created as this womb like environment and the. The monstrous womb and all that stuff and how that's going to continue later in the season in later episodes. This season does a great job of ending that. And I think it's such a beautiful parallel to last season where Joyce used lights to communicate with Will and now Terry's using lights to communicate with Elle. And I think that's just Chef's kiss. So good.
[00:58:31] Speaker C: Complete. Agree. I also want to add with this kind of like womb symbolism, even in Some of the scenes in this episode where Hopper is, like, trying to escape from the, like, tomb that he's in, it feels very reminiscent of, like, the loss of the light and then going into a place that's almost light, being stuck in the dirt in this, like, earthy, really type of place, I think all kind of gives that same, like,
[00:58:59] Speaker A: leaving the mother's womb kind of feeling absolutely 100 well. And like we talked about last season, there was a lot of imagery in particular with the episode the Monster. When we find out that Elle created the rip. Elle was ripped from her mother's womb. Then she creates the. The tear, the Upside down, and how the upside down is angry. And it's almost like it was created out of Elle's fear and rage. And now we're finding out that Terr, using her own powerful emotions, is able to reach across to 11. And it's just. I'm loving this. The cycles of motherhood and female rage and all of that stuff, and it's gonna be. It's, again, gonna be bookended very nicely at the end of the season. The Upside down, that whole metaphor doesn't continue for the rest of the series, but for seasons one and two, it really is thematically there, and it's so good.
So back at the Buyers, Bob's at the table with a map and a ruler as Joyce and Mike measure the locations on the wall with a measuring tape while Bob tries to pinpoint.
He ends up settling on one. Joyce kisses him, and she's like, all right, let's go. And Bob's like, wait, we really are going. He's thinking, this is just like a game we've made up. Like, I like how he just goes.
[01:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:00:09] Speaker B: I feel like Bob was like. Bob's reaction to kind of being sucked into this was sort of like when Oz saw his first vampire.
[01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:17] Speaker B: And he's just like, yeah, that makes sense.
Did everybody see that guy just turn the dude?
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah.
[01:00:29] Speaker A: That's almost like a very. Yeah, a very Oz like character. That is so true.
[01:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:34] Speaker A: Oh, I just love Bob. I. Maybe. Maybe this is just me getting older now, but I have a whole new appreciation for him this season with just how kind he is to Joyce.
[01:00:43] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm enjoying their dynamic as well.
[01:00:45] Speaker A: I love that one of the first scenes we see of Bob and Joyce is them making out like horny teenagers. Because for the rest of the season, Bob is very nerdy, and he could almost be seen as childlike in a way, with how innocent he is. And so I like that. They're showing like he's still a sexual being, he's still an adult, but he has never like lost that childlike wonder. So at the Wheeler's house, fed up. Oh, this is one of my favorite scenes. Dustin has decided to go to the Wheelers himself to find a capable person that can help him. And we see Karen is day drinking while on the phone talking about Margaret Thatcher. The doorbell rings. She's like, ted, can you get that please? We see Ted behind her not move a muscle for like a full five seconds.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: Like, does he know he's alive
[01:01:33] Speaker A: from Zootopia? It's like a 10 second delay.
[01:01:36] Speaker B: Hello?
[01:01:38] Speaker A: And then he says, I'll get that. Like it's his idea.
[01:01:43] Speaker B: He's so stupid.
[01:01:46] Speaker A: And then at the door, Dustin doesn't even say hello. He's just like, your line has been busy for over two hours, Mr. Wheeler. Do you realize this? And Ted's like, oh, I do realize.
[01:01:57] Speaker B: Well, who else is Karen supposed to talk to?
[01:01:59] Speaker C: Ted?
[01:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, the wall.
Like a woman has to yap and you're useless.
[01:02:08] Speaker A: Dustin's like, is Mike home? Ted's like, no. Dustin's like, well, where the hell is he? Ted's like, karen, where's our son? We see her pissed that she's being interrupted again. She's like, whales. Ted repeats this info even though Dustin probably heard it. And Dustin's like, no one's picking up there. And Ted tries to shut the door. Dustin continues to ruminate and is like, okay, well what about Nancy? Ted's like, karen, where's Nancy? Karen's like always. Mind you, all this information was relayed over dinner the night before. And Ted was at that dinner.
[01:02:41] Speaker C: No, only physically.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah, spiritually, mentally, like emotionally. He was elsewhere. I don't know where, but elsewhere.
[01:02:52] Speaker A: In the mindscape and mind palace. Yeah. And so Dustin's like, you know, seriously? And he's like having to parent all the adults today. Ted's tired of being held hostage and is like, am I done here? Dustin has had it. He's like, son of a. You're really no help at all. You know that? Ted Stiller comes back. Language.
[01:03:12] Speaker B: I'm surprised he even heard a single thing. Like, had Karen been like, oh, Mike is literally in jail. He would have been like, mike's in jail? He would have just like repeated it and not even realized that that's what she said.
Nancy's in Russia.
[01:03:30] Speaker A: No, he would have. That would have clocked that for him. Because he'd have been like, communist. I disown her. She's out of the will.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[01:03:37] Speaker A: Time to create an arranged marriage situation.
Gotta. Gotta marry her off. Get Gets ideas. And then becomes a communist.
I will say you.
You kind of have to add your own little bit of context to some of these characters, but I found myself having a little bit more compassion for Karen this episode.
[01:03:57] Speaker B: Oh, you were gonna say Ted?
[01:03:59] Speaker A: No, not Leia's about to fight me. Karen.
I think if we're following the episode's themes, I think Karen is numbing her reality with wine. Most likely because she was not like this last season.
I think most likely, if we look at what has happened since then. The government infiltrated her house, and she found out that her daughter was having sex, that another little girl was inside of the basement, and then her ch. Her child.
[01:04:29] Speaker C: Child.
[01:04:29] Speaker A: Or both her children witnessed, like, a massacre at the school. There's a lot of things that have happened, and I think a little bit of Karen's reality has burst. And so most likely the stress of the last season and all that stuff was kind of a break in her perceived reality and her safety. And so her using the wine to kind of self medicate. I was kind of like, oh, that makes a lot of sense, understanding what everybody else is going through too. But I wish they delved a little bit more into it because also, she
[01:04:57] Speaker B: has to live with Ted every day.
[01:04:59] Speaker A: And, you know, there's that, too. Absolutely.
[01:05:01] Speaker B: That, too.
[01:05:02] Speaker C: And also the fact that, you know, her children are both gone, and it's kind of like, are they telling her the truth about where they are? I think that is a question in her mind now after all the events of last season. So she's just taking it in as this reality and then numbing herself from that as well.
[01:05:20] Speaker A: Yeah, well, her kids are getting older. There's also that. That as a parent, too. Like, you realize your kids are keeping secrets from you, and that's sometimes developmentally appropriate, too, because they have their own lives. And if her entire identity. Obviously, she still has Holly, but if her entire identity has been mom and housewife and you watch your children not need you as much anymore, that can be a little bit hard to come to terms with as well. And then realizing you're looking down the rest of your life is living with this man who you can't even have a conversation with. Like, I'd be drinking pretty heavily, too. Yeah.
[01:05:53] Speaker C: And that also could even be. I don't know exactly how old Holly is, but the reason that Holly's there. Right. So that she does have this kind of, like, still gets to be a mother as the other two are growing up.
[01:06:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I'm sure women do that because they're like, well, my identity is parenting. I'm just gonna keep having kids. My mom did that shout out to, you know, glad Leah's here. But. But, you know, we say Leah. Leah says. We all say it all the time. Leah's like, oh, 100. I should not be here. And I was. We're all like, yeah, you really shouldn't, but we're glad you.
So Dustin grabs his bike, completely desperate at this point, ready to grab and recruit the next person that he sees. And lo and behold, it's Steve the Demogorgon Killer Harrington, pulling up with a bouquet of flowers. He's walking to the house. He's putting. Practicing his speech. He's like, listen, I've been thinking. I love you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What the hell am I sorry for?
I mean, here it is again. Like, Steve's pulling a Mr. Sinclair, right? He's bringing flowers for Nancy even though he didn't do anything. It's him wanting to preserve their relationship. But there's also probably a semblance of, like, how much is watering down the truth? Too much to the point where I'm no longer true to myself and my own truth. Like, that's something he'll have to wrestle with, you know, home. So he makes a beeline for Nancy's window. Dustin intercepts him, is like, are those for Mr. Or Mrs. Wheeler? And Steve's like, no. And then Dustin grabs them and is like, well, Nancy's not home, so you're coming with me. We have bigger problems than your love life. Do you still have that bat? The one with the nails? And Steve's like, no, no.
[01:07:24] Speaker B: Why?
[01:07:24] Speaker A: Where's Nancy? What's going on? Dustin's like, get in the car. I'll explain on the way. Now. And Steve's like, okay. Yes, yes, my lord.
Yes, sir.
[01:07:34] Speaker B: Sir. Yes, sir.
[01:07:35] Speaker A: Look how he just goes with it. Like, who does this?
[01:07:40] Speaker C: Just going along with whatever the thing is.
[01:07:42] Speaker A: Oh, thank God we're getting comparisons with Steve and Bob and not Steve and Ted. All season long, we've been like, steve's heading down the TED trajectory. The TED pipeline. Not.
[01:07:51] Speaker B: Not anymore.
[01:07:52] Speaker A: Oh, thank God. Dustin's here to save the day. So back in the tunnels, man hops just in the tunnels this entire episode. He's trying to dig his way out, runs out of steam, is continuing to call, cough, pulls out another cigarette and lays on the floor. He's like, oh, I can't breathe.
[01:08:05] Speaker B: Time to smoke it at this point. Yeah, just smoke it at this point. Like,
[01:08:12] Speaker A: the thought process there. He's, like, hacking up along. He's like, yeah, cigarette will help.
[01:08:16] Speaker B: I know calm is gonna go out.
[01:08:18] Speaker C: You have to go out, like, doing what you love.
[01:08:20] Speaker A: But, yes, true. He's giving up already.
[01:08:25] Speaker B: Does he really have much to live for?
[01:08:27] Speaker A: Let's be honest.
[01:08:28] Speaker B: Honest.
[01:08:29] Speaker A: El's waiting for him at the cabin.
[01:08:31] Speaker B: Nobody else knows that she's a slight risk. She's constantly trying to leave. Like, really so dark.
[01:08:41] Speaker A: Oh, man. But then the vines. The vines take a page from Leia and decide to cover Hopper's entire body with their entire body, pinning him to the floor.
And then outside and above, we hear him yelling. And we're like, no, Hopper.
Lucas ends up finishing up explaining about Elle to Max. And then we see Max just being like, yeah, you made it all up. She's like, you think I'm gullible? Says that it's a nice story but a bit derivative, which is, like, a little funny. Wink and a nod to all the critics about season one, that he's either trying to impress her or he's insane. She thinks it's stupid but funny. And then takes off with him following her. He's like, I gave you what you wanted. She's like, I wanted to be part of the group, not. Not part of some joke. And that he did a good job. He can go back to the others and tell them that she believes his lies if it gets him experience points or whatever. Lucas grabs her before she can leave and says that the. The most important rule of the party is that friends don't lie. Not ever, no matter what. And Max is like, well, sure. And then shows him the out of order sign and is like, well, what's this? Lucas says he had to do that to protect her. And I like, again, here's that theme, but I like how it's done in a very juvenile sense. He's trying to take that message his dad gave him a. But he's filtering it through a child's perspective, and so he's trying to create the situation that will get her to understand. So he, like, you know, takes her to the arcade where, you know, it's her safe space. And he's trying to find a way to convey the truth in a form and scenario that will best allow her to comprehend and believe. But the irony is he's a kid and hasn't perfected this, so he kind of undercuts it by lying to her. In order to tell her the truth, which just completely derails the whole thing. And she's like, hang on. Fun.
[01:10:18] Speaker B: So I love how perceptive Max is, though.
[01:10:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:10:22] Speaker B: Like, I love how she kind of stands. She stands up for herself. Like, she's not.
She's not trusting, but she's also vulnerable in that, like, she's willing to admit that she wanted to be a part of the group.
[01:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:10:34] Speaker B: But at the same time, like, obviously this is a kid that has trauma, whether it's from Billy or, like, we don't know much about her home life, but we can assume that it's not. Not really that great.
But I just love Max as a character because I feel like, you know, for a girl in the 80s, like, she's just a little.
She's just herself. Yeah. But obviously she has a lot of stuff going on that's, like, not so sunshine and roses, you know? And I feel like all the girls in this show are layered like that. And I really like that there's no, like, stereotypical like. Like, this is just a girly girl that, you know, is perfect and all this stuff. So, yeah, I appreciate that.
[01:11:17] Speaker A: Sadie C. Has just done such a good job with giving Max a vulnerability to her because it would be very easy for, I think, a less skilled actress to just take the hardened side of Max and make her kind of on almost untouchable or even a bit a. Of. Of like, how people would perceive her as a. Not saying she would be, but she's given such a vulnerability and, like you said, layers to Max, that when we see Max saying these things and not believing Lucas, we understand completely why she would be this way. Also because Billy. But yeah. And I like that she clues into Lucas when she sees the terror and the fear in his face, when she's all like, oh, the government, the demogorgon. And starts, like, shouting these things. And he covers her face, face, and she's like, oh, my gosh. You. You're serious? And then she tells him to prove it. He says he can't. She's like, so I'm just supposed to trust you? He says, yes. She hears Billy's car revving outside the arcade. Then we see real fear appear on her face. She grabs her skateboard, tells Lucas she has to go. Grabs his hand and says, don't follow me out. His brain just goes.
The moment she grabs his hand, you can just see him not computing anything at that point. And he's like, do you believe me?
She takes off. And then Billy catches sight of Lucas watching Her and I love Dacre. Montgomery is such a good actor, like a physical actor. He like turns his head very lazily sees Lucas, turns his face away from Max. And the entire time he's talking to her, his face is away from her. We can see his face, but she can't. And we watch Max's voice again. Sadie Sink. I don't know if you guys know. Notice her vocal pitch goes up when she's talking to Billy. Instead of her normal lower cadence. She's doing the classic girl thing that we all do when we're in an environment situation when we don't feel safe. Sometimes we'll lighten our voice to say, oh, I'm, I'm innocent. I'm little. And as a way to make ourselves small. And I thought that that was such an interesting choice for Sadie to do. And then, then when she lies to him, him, he lazily rolls his head around and turns to face her. And then that's when he takes the car off and stuff. But it was like, there's so much in that look of like, I don't believe you. And then she slips up and says Lucas's name, showing that she's like on a first name base. I don't know, it's just so good. And the way they play off of each other is just very layered. Then at the bunker, Nancy's finishing up playing the recording from the lab for Murray, who's on the edge of his seat. Nancy is asks if it's incriminating enough. Murray doesn't answer, walks into his kitchen, pulls out some vodka to think, then puts on music.
He's like, it's. It helps me. I was like, okay, sociopath. Nancy's like, it's a simple question. Just answer.
Spoilers. Just wait till next episode.
My real beef starts with him there. So then Murray, I just know Jess is going to get off and go immediately watch the next episode. Episode. She's like, I gotta know.
He's like, it's not a simple problem. He says that he believes Nancy and Jonathan, but they need the outside world to believe her. And they're not going to believe any of this because it's too fantastical. Nancy's like, but he admitted it on tape. Like he said, the, the facts and the truth. So obviously that's going to hold up. And Murray's like, you're being naive that most people are not wired like they are, that they do. They don't spend their lives trying to get a look behind the curtain. Also very interesting when he says most People are not like you and me. He excludes Jonathan. He says him and Nancy. He doesn't say Jonathan, which I thought was interesting.
[01:14:55] Speaker B: Everybody excludes Jonathan.
[01:14:59] Speaker C: No.
[01:15:00] Speaker B: What else is new?
[01:15:02] Speaker A: I'm talking about him in third person.
[01:15:04] Speaker C: In Murray's defense, Jonathan's just kind of there, so.
[01:15:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:15:07] Speaker A: He's the ride. He's the car.
That's so true. Oh, my gosh.
[01:15:13] Speaker B: Look how many Jonathan is gonna become like Marcy in Buffy season one. He's just gonna disappear because everybody just doesn't know that he's there. They just all ignore him.
[01:15:25] Speaker A: So funny. Nancy's like, isn't it just so crazy how whenever, like, crazy things are going down, like, you and I hang out, and I'm like, that's because you don't need him in the world. Is that end Nancy, like, you're using him just like Joyce.
Oh, so Nancy's like, he admitted on tape. Marie says she's being naive. And then he talks about how they don't want to get a look behind the curtain, that they like the curtain. I was like, oh, that's a throwback to last season when the lab was referred to as Oz and Brenner was the wizard. Murray continues and says, the curtain provides stability, safety, comfort, and definition. This would open the curtain, and the minute someone with an ounce of authority calls, the people will be quick to accept that because they want it to not be true. True. Nancy's like, so you're saying we did all this for nothing? Murray's like, I'm thinking. He goes back to drinking his vodka and grimaces and then adds in some more water and then gets a light bulb moment and says, it's too strong. Nancy keys in as well. Jonathan's lost. We've lost him, guys. Murray waters it down until it's more palatable. And she's like, oh, we water down the story, make it more tolerable. Murray's like, perhaps Barbara was exposed to some toxins. Nancy's like, yeah, a leak from the lab cab. Something scary but familiar. Murray offers her and Jonathan the watered down drink, saying, close enough that it hits the man right where it hurts. Nancy picks up the drink and says, and those that killed Barb will go down.
Such a good visual demonstration. The show doesn't always nail it, but it really does a good job with this particular example.
[01:16:57] Speaker C: I thought it was really good. I thought the metaphors were really good here.
I also like this kind of, like, curtain, like you were saying, going back to the lab, but also the idea that this is Very much set still during the Cold War. And this idea of like, what's going on behind the curtain, this Russian fear that kind of pops up here and there throughout the show is really interesting, especially with Murray being a conspiracy theorist.
[01:17:22] Speaker A: 100 yeah. So I have a little thing.
[01:17:25] Speaker C: It's gonna.
[01:17:26] Speaker A: It's kind of lengthy, but I thought it was really interesting, kind of giving context, like you were saying, with the Cold War and stuff, so. And also tying in the themes a bit. So this season is all about transition, obviously. Like I said before, in Stranger Things and Philosophy, Chris Wigley talks about how puberty as a transition between childhood and adulthood is also a transition between the simplicity of childhood and the complexities of the adult world. Those vanilla facts you learn from mom and dad are obliterated by sex ed class and the death of your first pet. All of a sudden nothing makes sense. There are no happy endings. Dad can't love mom if he's sleeping with the cleaner. Jesus lost to science. Everything you held is real falls apart at the scene. Seems your parents lied. The world isn't how they told you it is. So it leads to this feeling of false realities discussed by French philosopher Jean Balderlard in the 1980s. He theorized that we experience the world through a type of mutual mass hallucination, suggesting that booms in consumer culture, capitalism and technology have reshaped us, masking whatever was real behind symbols and representations called hyper reality, an inability to distinguish reality from fiction. Differentiating reality from fiction doesn't mean hyper reality is a form of medical psychosis. In this sense, the idea of the real is the essence of a thing prior to any instances that alter its intention or meaning. So like models essentially copies or generations of what came before. So like how we get different models of phones and stuff. Is it exactly like the first phone that came out? No, it's not. It's a different version altogether. So Baudrillard uses the example of photoshopping or putting makeup over his it the thing still exists, but it changes the reality of how people experience or even interact with something. So on a more like complex or more relevant to Stranger Things, the book uses the photo of or a photo of Barb. It captures Barb in her barbness as a teen with glasses, braces, red hair, etc. You look at that picture, you say that is a teenage girl, right? But then Barb disappears and that photo is used for missing persons posters. And all of a sudden that photo takes on a completely different Conte text. All those features and things that made her Bar become less relevant to her being a missing person. Then months or years down the line, when Barb is all but forgotten, the posters remain and act as a folkloric memory of someone who once was, but may no longer be. The Barbness of Barb, according to the poster, is a chilling reminder that sometimes people don't come home. Barb is no longer the beaming girl in the photo, nor is she the visual identifier of the missing girl on the poster. She's dead and seemingly frightened, forgotten. So the succession of models is identifiable to us as a process of endless xeroxes or tape trade dubs. And with each step away from the original, the meaning is altered or lost. So the idea of hyper reality is less about a malicious intent to distort the world. It's more a matter of the passage of time and events. Much like our growth from child to adulthood. When we peel away those safety layers to reveal the complexities of the world, our surroundings wobble so much that whatever was there in the the first place might not even be relevant now, let alone be decipherable. So in layman's terms, Barb goes from a person to evidence, to a symbol, to a political issue. And we can see that evolution even in this season from last season. And this all ties into the building of the suburban gothic trope which we talked about a couple episodes ago in the Pollywog episode about the myth of suburban utopia that was created and shaped by the anti communist American Dream propaganda in the 1950s. The idea of a suburban utopia never really actually existed in how we see it portrayed in media. It's just become a reflection of a reflection of a reflection. So over time we lose reality in a lot of ways. And that's what they're referring to as almost this mass psychosis. I mean, on a much smaller level, you can look at even beauty trends, beauty standards, how women's bodies are commodified and how it's like, oh, skinny is beautiful, but like 50 years ago was curvy, you know what I mean? And how it changes so, so drastically over the decades.
So we discussed how over time, obviously just like the photo of Barb, the depictions of suburbia become a place that is idyllic and not necessarily based on reality, but hyper reality.
Then the 70s come and reality TV becomes a thing and now we have another extension of hyper reality. Except how much is scripted and how much is real? Where does that start? Where does that end? It's all kind of blend together and then you start having different questions of does it matter? As long as it just entertains? Who cares if it's real? I'm entertained. So now add in the context of the 1980s, with the fears of the Soviet Union, the desire to feel safe and strong, and the belief that the way to do that is through preserving the family union in a suburban simulacrum, real or not. And oop, you've got a US President who was an actor famed for playing All American Heroes. Voters grew up watching those old black and white movies, and so did their kids. Like it or not, in the minds of many, Reagan was already a man who could. They'd seen him save the day a hundred times before. How would this time be any different? All of this makes for a very confusing time. Distinctions blur, and life ceases to be straightforward when we acknowledge that the constructs of our cultural fabric aren't as stable as we thought, teenager and adult alike. And this is where Murray and Nancy, or this is what Murray, Nancy, and Jonathan, are up against as a society. A society. Society that's primed to blur reality and the narrative that people construct to make reality bearable. And they're rejecting truth because it means an entire shift in perspective, stability, and possibly even safety. So the curtain that Murray is talking about, that thin fabric between what is happening and what people choose to believe, he understands that evidence isn't enough. And Nancy's over there like, well, we have the truth and proof of it. And Murray's like, yeah, but society and individuals cling to stories and comforting narratives over truth and evidence. They'll find a way to reframe it. And so that ties into Friends don't Lie. Well, now Nancy has to go. We have to fudge the truth or water down the truth a little bit for the greater good. And we're starting to see a more mature understanding of what it means to not lie. So I thought that was very fascinating. I know that was really long, but I think that's really cool and it's going to be really fun because season three, it's a lot like Buffy. The world's going to start getting bigger, bigger and larger, and you're going to start seeing more of this come into play as it's expounding on the themes and stuff. So, anyway, anyway, all right. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk, guys.
All right, so back at the lab, a scientist is showing Owens the samples they took from the farm, saying they didn't find anything hazardous. But when they heated up the samples, it looks like a mini shadow monster cloud, but then it's not just in the sample heated up, it's in all of the other samples showing that they're all linked together.
Then back at the Ives, Becky helps Elle make a blindfold. And it's like, is this going to work? Will you tell Terry that I love her very much, like, just hounding her with questions. And I was like, stop talking. These kids just parenting the adults in this episode.
[01:24:33] Speaker C: It's so funny and it's so just like matter of fact, the way that these kids are all just telling people to stop talking when that's what needs to be done.
[01:24:43] Speaker A: And the adults listen to them too, which is the hilarious part. They're like, okay, shutting up.
So inside the mindscape, Elsie's Terry still muttering those words. Elle tells her that she's home, but then Terry grabs Elle's hand and says no before disappearing. Then Elsie's flashbacks of Terry going into labor, then being in the delivery room for a C section, being told to breathe, and then seeing Brenner taking her baby, then waking up to sunflowers and Becky telling her that her baby was dead. Terry is seated now. And then we hear three to the right, four to the left as Terry opens a safe and takes out a gun, then drives to the lab with the gun. She tries to make it past security, but shoots one before racing and through to a room marked with a rainbow. Inside are two little girls playing with toys, one of which looks like eight from the first episode of the season. We're like, haha. Finally, it's all starting to connect. The other one is a very small 11 she's caught before being taken to a room and lobotomized at 450 by Papa. Oh, I hate that man.
Then we get a quick succession of all the scenes as we hear them distilled down to those words. Breathe, sunflower. Three to the right, four to the left. Rainbow 450.
And we get a compilation of all the big moments of her time as a mother. And then Elle Gaston comes out of it and it just like breaks down as Becky comforts her.
Fun fact. The music that plays in this moment is taken from Philip Glass's song Open the Kingdom.
Glass is an American composer and pianist and is widely regarded as one of the most influential composers of the late 20th century. He's written like 15 operas, chamber operas, 15 symphonies, concertos, gotten Grammy awards, you know, all that stuff. But he composed the score for the Truman Show Show.
[01:26:28] Speaker B: Huh.
[01:26:29] Speaker A: So then back at the car, Bob, Joyce, Mike and Will are driving, trying to figure out where Hopper is and Will is suddenly, like, turn right. And then Bob, you know, turns right immediately into, like, what looks like a cornfield. And channeling the shadow monster, they veer into the road and almost run into a hay bale before nearly running into Hopper's truck. Mike's like, super spy completely just romanticizing everything about Will's pain.
[01:26:53] Speaker B: He here.
[01:26:55] Speaker A: Bob's like, what's Jim doing here?
We're like, he's the ax.
[01:26:59] Speaker B: He's the. Fancy seeing you here. Hi, Jim. Hi, Bob.
[01:27:04] Speaker A: Yeah. He's like, hi, Jim. Hi, Bob.
[01:27:06] Speaker C: I don't know.
[01:27:07] Speaker A: Like, I did not grow up in a small town, so I don't know what it's like to know every single person that lives near you, but I love the idea that all these people have gone to high school with each other, and they all, like, can recognize each other just by their cars and trucks.
[01:27:19] Speaker C: Wow. Wild.
[01:27:20] Speaker A: So Joyce tells them to stay in the car. Will's like, it's not safe. Bob and Joyce get out and head down to the hole, where Joyce sees the vines, tells Bob to give her the shovel. She hits them, clearing a space, and then is like, bob, help me down. He's like, joyce, what are you talking about? She's like, bob, now?
[01:27:35] Speaker B: Are you serious?
[01:27:37] Speaker A: But he's just like, okay. He helps her down. She begins to call for Hopper. Bob jumps in after her. What a king. He's like, what is going on? Where are we? Hang on. Are these the time tunnels? They're real. Are we inside of Will's map? Joyce is just like, hopper, hop. And then Bob's marveling at the structural design of the tunnels and also how Will knew about all of this. I just love how he doesn't call her delusional or gaslight her. Like Lonnie did. Like, he just believes her. And I just love this.
[01:28:05] Speaker C: The difference between the two relationships, night and day. And it makes me very happy that, like, Joyce has him.
[01:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. She so safe with him. He's such a safe person.
So then Joyce finds the cigarette trail. Bob follows, and he's like, oh, okay. I guess. I guess we're gonna keep going. I just hear, walk him like a dog the entire time. Walk him like a dog. He's just like, okay, let's go.
[01:28:29] Speaker B: Just a little puppy.
[01:28:30] Speaker A: He really is. He's just happy he's lost.
[01:28:33] Speaker B: He's just happy to be there and included.
[01:28:36] Speaker A: So outside, Mike and Will watch as a bunch of white vans from the lab show up in the tunnels. Joyce finds Hopper's hat, and then Hopper, covered in vines Lines. They get Hopper's knife and manage to free him. Joyce is like, hopper, are you okay? Bob's just sitting there disassociating, just trying to process it all. As hops like, hey, Bob. Bob's like, hey, Jim. Then they turn to see scientists in white suits swarming the room, telling them to clear the areas. They begin to burn the vines. Hopper grabs his hat. Great Indiana Jones reference right there. Outside, Will begins to writhe on the ground as we clearly see that the burns are affecting him. And we close out the episode with this chilling moment of him convulsing on the ground as he emits a high pitch pitch scream.
Guys, that was Noah Schnapp. He actually did all that. And, like, we talked about how he looked up videos of people who had seizures, and so he. That's actually him convulsing on the ground.
Crazy.
[01:29:30] Speaker B: Like, not to be shady, but I just don't understand how this kid is the same kid that, like, acts in later seasons.
[01:29:41] Speaker A: Y. I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
[01:29:44] Speaker B: That's just crazy. I know we talked about it, like, how, you know, these kids are, like, so young when they start this show, and there's this sense of, like, they have this vulnerability that you have as a kid because you're not afraid. Like, you're not self conscious. You have more confidence because you're not, like, thinking about being perceived by other people. But then, like, as you become a teenager and a young adult, you become more aware of how people. People view you, and so you kind of, like, suppress yourself more. Yeah, but it's just. Yeah, it's just because it's. It's crazy because some of these kids continue to be, like, really amazing. But I just feel like maybe it's also the writing. I don't know what it is, but especially in season five, I just felt like some of the acting was, like, not.
Wasn't hitting. Like, these scenes are. Are so good.
[01:30:36] Speaker A: I also think there are some actors that are one note, and I think Noah Schnapp could convey pain and terror and fear really well. But then other things, because on season five, a lot of his lines were. I know we're only just, like, giving spoilers here. Jess is like, a lot of his lines were conversational, and I think that one, the writing, I think, wasn't super great. It was repetitive. But I do also think that it's sometimes harder to convey in a believable way a conversation versus sometimes to just writhe on the floor. Like, and maybe he's just better at one than the other.
[01:31:11] Speaker B: But, like, I feel like he's really good. He's been really good in, like, vulnerable scenes, like when he's having a convo, a conversation with another character, and he's, like, opening up. And I feel like that kind of changes. And I mean, obviously, there's so many factors. Season 5 comes. How many years did it take to, like, get there?
[01:31:31] Speaker A: You know, it's like, eight years away from this.
Yeah.
[01:31:34] Speaker B: And, like, what was that? There was a long break between four and five. And it's just a lot of stuff. But it's just really interesting to see how good he is in these seasons.
[01:31:45] Speaker A: Oh, this is his. He is the breakout star in this season. Like, he is so good. One of the best child actors I've ever seen.
[01:31:53] Speaker B: For sure.
[01:31:54] Speaker C: I've been thinking that too. In this season, I'm really captivated by Will as a character and the performances that we're seeing here.
I'm really interested in whatever's happening to him in this connection that we're obviously seeing come out so much at the end of this episode.
[01:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:11] Speaker C: And I, like. I watch it and I feel scared for him. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, really amazing performance. So hearing that, that's not gonna last. I'm now, like, oh, no. Like, am I gonna change my mind about Will later?
[01:32:24] Speaker A: But you'll have to watch it and let us know what you think you'll have to see.
[01:32:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I'd be very curious. And I'm curious, too, as we go through Leia, like, what we're gonna unpack and what maybe we'll. We can attribute to other things and not necessarily his acting. I don't know. We'll see. Maybe I'm being too gracious, but. Yeah, I agree. It's just.
[01:32:41] Speaker C: It's.
[01:32:42] Speaker A: It's a bummer because he's truly fantastic. He's having to convey a lot of otherworldly stuff. Like, obviously, we've seen the Shadow Monster, but the vast majority of what, the terror that we're feeling this season is conveyed through his own emotions. And that's really hard to do.
So, yeah, it's.
[01:32:59] Speaker B: I mean, I think one of the best scenes of this season so far was when he was getting taken over by the Shadow Monster. And there's the voiceover of, like, his conversation with Bob about, you know, saying, you can't come here or whatever. Like, you know, like, that empowering speech that he gives him. That gives him confidence. And now he's all of a sudden, like, in this field, terrified as this monster is like assaulting him, you know, and it's just that was like such a good scene. So well acted.
[01:33:31] Speaker A: And I'm really excited to talk about him the next episode because we see a different, completely different side.
Well, that's the end of the episode. And again like we've been saying all episode just you'll have to let us know. You have to go ahead and watch season three and then tell us what episode you want to come back for and then tell us your thoughts. I don't know if you'll continue to watch through the rest of the show. It'll be fun to. To talk the next time whether you've watched all the way through or just portion of it. But I so appreciate you coming on. This has been so fun. Can you tell listeners where to find you and your podcast?
[01:34:04] Speaker C: Yes. Also, thank you so much for having me on. This was so fun to kind of go through the episode like this with both of you in terms of where to find me me. So you can find me on Instagram and tick tock at Rewitched underscore pod. You can also just search Rewitched on Spotify, Apple, YouTube. It's uploaded on most platforms. So go ahead and give that. It's also all linked on the social media.
[01:34:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And we'll go ahead and put your information on the episode information for this one as well too. But we hope you guys enjoyed this. This.
Let us know your guys's thoughts again. Do you guys think Jonathan and Nancy broke up? What do you think about what's going on?
[01:34:47] Speaker C: I was.
[01:34:48] Speaker A: Did I say Steve and Nancy or Jonathan and Nancy?
I can't keep it, you know, just all the same person. No. Do you guys think that Steve and Nancy broke up? Everyone's like, I didn't even know Jonathan and Nancy were together. Neither did I. Neither did the show.
Yeah. And then what do you guys think about the progression of like we now I feel like have all the places players in the game. So I'm very excited for the next section of the of the season. We're gonna have everybody kind of coming together doing their stuff, action, all that stuff. What you guys think of some of the themes we were talking about just with hyper reality and some of the background stuff with the 80s.
I don't know what you guys think about Dustin over there bearing muse, carrying the weight of all the adults choices on his shoulders, you know, mobilizing his punishment.
[01:35:37] Speaker B: Those are the consequences of his own actions for harboring a literal demon.
[01:35:44] Speaker A: So he, he basically was parenting the demon. I don't think he was just harboring it. Like, that was his child.
[01:35:51] Speaker B: It's a demon. It's a demon. It ate its cat. It ate his cat.
[01:35:55] Speaker C: Also, what happened to the turtle that he took out of the container to put.
[01:36:00] Speaker A: Yeah, where's your doll?
[01:36:01] Speaker B: Probably got eaten, too.
[01:36:03] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[01:36:03] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:36:05] Speaker A: Do we think Hopper is going to develop some, you know, some connection with the shadow monster after breathing in all those scores? You know, who knows? Who knows?
[01:36:14] Speaker B: Guys, is he going to start drawing, too? There's not enough room.
[01:36:18] Speaker A: Joyce is like, not you, too.
[01:36:22] Speaker C: They have no paper left for him to draw.
[01:36:24] Speaker A: Literally, he's going to start taking on the wall.
That's hilarious, actually.
[01:36:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:36:29] Speaker A: And then just Bob being an absolute king. I don't know. There were so many moments in this episode that just were so fun and really set up the future sequences. I don't know. Do you guys want to see Billy actually hit someone? Do something for once.
[01:36:42] Speaker B: I want to see him go crazy. Like, I want to see Billy just lose it. Like, do. Yeah, I want to see him lose it. I want to see something happen. Been.
[01:36:53] Speaker A: It's coming. It's coming. Just you wait.
[01:36:55] Speaker B: So I think I remember, kind of.
[01:37:00] Speaker A: All right, well, thanks so much for listening, everyone.
Check out Jess's pod and we will see you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Investigating Podcast, and you can continue to email
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