Show Notes
Angel tries to shield a female werewolf from evil restaurateurs who want to serve her up on a platter as a delicacy.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating angel, an angel rewatch.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Podcast, where we analyze each episode of angel the series with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leia and Sarah.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: And if you love angel, this is the podcast for you foreign.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Angel. Today we're talking about season five, episode three, Unleashed, written by Sarah Fane and Elizabeth Craft, directed by Marita grabio, and aired October 15, 2003.
All right, thoughts on this episode.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Leia, I enjoyed this episode. I thought it was your classic monster of the week episode. The cinematography was very spooky. I appreciate that they have the werewolves in dark lighting, so they don't look terrible like they usually do. Yeah, I really like that Angel's back to helping the helpless. For the last few seasons, Angel's been, like, helping people, but more saving their lives. And that's always not what the show's been about. Usually angel will help somebody and he'll identify with them and he'll, like, impart his wisdom about things that he's learned to help save their soul or, like, help them emotionally. And I really like that he did that. This episode, that it was able to tie back the things that angel has learned over the years. Yeah, it felt like a season one episode, you know? Yeah.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: And I liked it. I think, historically, it's not really been an episode that's, like, stood out in my mind. And I don't think it's, like, one of the best of the season or anything, but it was enjoyable enough. I liked it. Yeah. What did you think?
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Contrary. Contrary to how I sounded, I thought it was decent and fine.
I just suck with Transition.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: You were just like.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: So I was trying to hold myself in.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: What do you think?
[00:02:05] Speaker A: No. After the season three and four episodes, really, honestly, have nothing to complain about. Like, seriously, I think. I think, to me, like, this episode was just, like, fine. And I think that there were, like. I think there were a few things that I was like, that could do. Like, it could have done it better and stuff. But I think my biggest thing is, like, the last two episodes, to me, have just been so. So freaking funny and fun that this one was kind of like, oh, not as good as the other ones and stuff. But at the same time, I also have major beef with Nina. I don't know why. There's a couple of characters that I. I should not hate as much as I do, and I just don't like them. I just. I can't stand her. I just never have been able to stand her, and I think that's a big Part of it. I also think the actress is not super great at times. I think there's a few beats. I just don't.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: The best.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's a few things that, like, sometimes she's great, sometimes she's not. I also think the writing was. But I understood what it was going for. And like you said, the fact that it was kind of pointing back to season one, the fact that it was kind of like them helping the helpless again. Like, I felt like angel, the reason why he was so gung ho about helping Nina, apart from the fact that he was attracted to her, but also the relatability. But then also like, hey, here's someone who truly needs help, who truly is innocent, and I don't have to worry about the. The senior partners or going through all this other red tape. I'm not trying to help someone who is morally corrupt or whatever. It's very clear cut. And I think he really enjoyed having that.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: I think he could relate to her totally. Like, angel hasn't really been able to relate to anybody in a very long time. So. Yes, I think that's a big part of it, too.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: My thoughts on Nina are just like, she's just there. I don't really have any strong feelings about her one way or the other. I thought, like you said, I don't know why acting in this episode was, like, a little bit too much sometimes. I was like, oh, my God, calm down. Jenny Mullen.
That's the actress's name.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: But otherwise, Nina's just there. Although I did appreciate how her and angel related to one another in this episode in, like, a very unspoken way.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: I think it bothers me when the show tries to make a character more than what they're giving, if that makes sense. So it was like the show was like, oh, it's Nino. We're going to focus on her. And angel suddenly is, like, super attracted and all stuff. And you're just like.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: But he was attracted, like, until the very end. Yeah, Like, I never. I think it's like Riley.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: It's like Riley. It's like the most basic white girl ever. And it's like, oh, just because she's blind. And I don't know, it just felt like. Like, you know, the entire episode, the Initiative, when Riley discovers that he likes Buffy. Like, he has everybody telling him the entire time that he likes Buffy, and then everybody bringing up Nina to Angel. I kind of was like, is it the same thing where everyone's just telling angel that he likes this girl? And I don't know.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That line at the very end by gun was a little bit off for me because I. I didn't really feel the. I guess, romantic tension, maybe from her side. I read it more as, you know, he saved Nina and she's, like, asking questions about him. But I didn't really feel it from, like, angel because I think there was so much more that, like, was driving Angel's behavior than just an attraction to her. I think it was, like, a lot deeper than that.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: So what that, like, comment at the end, I was just. Okay, guys, right?
[00:05:29] Speaker A: How many other damsels has angel saved? And there's been a lot more tension between them. And there's been, like, no, nothing about it. Like, I think about. Not necessarily that she's a damsel, but Gwen. There's a lot of tension between her and angel, but. But no one ever pointed it out.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Explore or quote, unquote, Cordelia was around at that time.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Jaz Delia, whatever the hell she was in that day, who knows at that moment.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that day, that.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: That second.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. But anyway, so, yeah, I think that a lot of. And the thing is, a lot of this episode is so focused on Nina that I feel like how you feel about the character and how you feel she does, the actress acts in this episode and stuff makes or breaks the episode in a lot of ways, for me, at least. And Joss apparently feels very similar. So there's a quote, he says going more standalone because, like, we talked about how the show decided to go to more standalone episodes. He says going more standalone was a bizarre kind of symmetry to where we had started. Amazingly enough, we started out doing that and still weren't very good at it. I give you, the werewolf episode we did unleashed. Good guest star, good idea. Nothing particular. Perfectly wrong there, except for a failure to make a genuine emotional connection between what was going on with the guest star and our characters themselves. And I agree with that. That was a fault of story breaking. And then the incredibly amount. The incredible amount of money we no longer had because the budget cuts really showed up on screen. I have to say that one scene with Nina and Fred in the van, I was like, this is so obviously them in, like, a machine that's just kind of shaking them back and forth with, like, sound effects from, like, outside. Like, like, obviously every time they drive in a car most of time, it's usually some sort of a screen going next to them. But that one was just so obvious, it was kind of pulled me out of the scene, he says, again, we found our footing. As the season progressed, we got better at figuring out how to do standalone episodes with characters that we care about, that we don't have to explain every single thing about where we have a Previously on an angel that was 45 minutes long as it felt in season four. And I do kind of agree, they had to spend a lot of time in this episode setting up Nina what she loved, what she didn't love, all that stuff, and try to create a connection between her and the characters. And I think there is something there. But they had to have the attraction between her and angel in order to really hammer home that home, that connection between the characters and her. But it doesn't translate. And so I think that's what makes the episode kind of fall flat in a lot of ways.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Well, I think ultimately, I don't think Nina is a particularly compelling character. We've seen so many variations of the same character across.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: She's just a buffer girl.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: I mean, not even just that, but, like, she's just another person who now has a monster inside of them, and they have to deal with the reality of that. But we've seen characters like that before, and there was nothing that was particularly, like, different or interesting about the way they did it with her.
I was more interested in how angel was reacting to it than I was interested in Nina. And I think that's why when I say I don't feel much toward her, it's because when the episode's focused on her, I'm just like, okay, this is exposition. Like, we're just learning more about her as a character. Da, da, da. But there's no, like, emotional connection. But then, yeah, when her and angel are having, like, the conversation in the car or, like, in the office, I'm just like, okay, this is great. I really like this. But that's because angel is kind of driving the emotion there, because Nina's just. She's just like another character. You know, it's nobody that, like, I particularly care about.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I. And like I talked about earlier, like, the show trying to bring the themes back around to what they were in season one. Like, isolation leads to falling back on animalistic tendencies, or an Angel's case going back to the sewers, back to the rats.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: Guys, that was many steps before then at this point.
[00:09:26] Speaker A: No, no, he just goes straight back to the rest. He's like, that's it. I give up. Go straight from his office in Wolfram and Heart and just goes and walks out into a Sewer and just sits down is like, here, this is my life now.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Surely. Surely there's, like, things you can do before reaching that point.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: No, no, that's it.
But, yeah, like, the whole idea of human connection, that keeps us grounded. That's been a huge theme of the show since Doyle came to angel and Cordelia and all that stuff. And angel saying, separate yourselves from the ones you love. Then the monster wins.
And then we also see Spike fading in and out of the episode until Fred connects with him. There is this desire that we see in both Spike and Nina to just kind of disappear. And we know angel has also experienced that at times. Like, it would be easier to just die than to have to fight and constantly live with the tension inside of you as we talked about last episode. And so this episode, in a lot of ways, felt like just a rehashing of what we've already talked about. Kind of in a lot of ways, I feel like the writers are trying to continue with Spike's journey until we get to the next episode. Kind of showing how he's not really fighting super duper hard. He's kind of just like, I kind of still want to give up, you know? And then, obviously, Angel's inner turmoil. And then, of course, we have angel saving a pretty blonde with powers that he's attracted to. I mean, yeah, we're back to the status quo in a lot of ways. Yeah. The classic, you know, if it ain't broke, broke, don't fix it or whatever.
Nina. I think Nina is symbolic in a lot of ways. She's the first client since. Was it the guy in Inside Out? Is that the episode or what episode with he, like, the monster? He drank a lot of the water. Yeah.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Benediction.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Was it benediction?
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: Why did I think inside? Oh, it was an inside out. That was season four. Yeah. It's the one where Angel's like, oh, I have to get back no matter what. There was the slug demons. Yes. We haven't had a client since then. And so I think, like, Nina is very symbolic. I think back to City of Where angel rescued that girl in the alley who's blonde as well. Like, she also is a very obvious nod towards Buffy, towards the mission.
And again, angel latches onto her because she's something that's distinctly good and innocent in a world that's very complicated for him right now. All things philosophical says angel helps people. Angel relates to the wolf because he, too, is a monster. He helped the girl by taking a personal interest in her. That is how angel helps people. He doesn't just slay demons, he saves souls. And we've talked about this. Yeah, that's what makes angel distinct from Buffy. Um, and then, like, I talked about this a lot over on Buffy, I think in, like, season two and season four when it came up. But in literature, werewolves are typically envisioned as working class monsters, often being low in socioeconomic status, although they can represent a variety of social classes. And at times we. They're kind of seen as a way of representing aristocratic. Aristocratic decadence during 19th century horror literature. Which is why you have Nina being served up on a platter to a bunch of black tie, wealthy people who are going to eat her, because they can. And that the werewolves often represent kind of like that fear of losing control of our bodies, which, you know, again, ties into the working class feeling like they're being taken over by those who are wealthier of them and higher up on the economic status, the economic ladder. Um, and then obviously, on a physical level, we have Angel, Nina and Spike struggling with that, with Spike, you know, literally going in and out on this mortal plane.
I was gonna say vampires. Werewolves can represent that duality of human as both animal and spirit, spiritual man versus beast, civilization versus nature. Because of this, they are primarily used to display a person's internal struggle, which, again, we see between Angel, Spike and Nina. The contrast between the black tie event, all that stuff. This is also hinted at with Lauren referring to Atlas Shrugged when talking to angel, he says, how about you, Shrug Atlas? At one point to angel, cliffnotes describes Atlas Shrugged, saying that it furthers the theme of individualism that Unrand developed in the Fountain Head. So she's an author that wrote a couple of these books, and she wrote Atlas Shrug, she wrote the Fountainhead. And a lot of her themes deal with the hero and the innovative architect, the independent mind, and how the hero and the mind is responsible for all human progress and prosperity. Kind of basically saying that, like, if it weren't for our independent mind, our society would collapse into primitive savagery. Again, the idea of the man versus the monster, Atlas Shrugged as an impassioned defense of the freedom of man's mind. And this is a huge theme in Buffy season four. If you've listened to becoming Buffy, we talked a lot about the id, the ego, the super ego. A lot of werewolf imagery there with Oz's storyline. Fear itself touched on Oz's fear of losing control over the wolf and is ultimately why he left Willow and stuff.
And in this case, it's very interesting. There's a couple of nods to Past seasons of Buffy. I think that Wesley makes a very subtle little callback to the initiative and other things like that. And so there. Trying to pull up those themes that we talked about back there and kind of tie them in here about how angel is wrestling with all of this stuff, how spikes wrestling with it and Nina and how at the end of the day, like, they can conquer it because they're not going to just let their animal take over, no matter what. So long winded. Very fancy way to say that. This is something we've hashed out for several seasons now. And.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: And that's what I mean when I say that Nina's not any type of, like, new and interesting character. We've seen, yeah. So many variations of Nina across the book verse and like.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: We've seen stories like this play out with, like, many characters.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, I do think it is important because once again, we want the show to get back to the mission. Right. And so I really do like that. It seems like the show is really trying hard to get back to what it once was. And I appreciate that. So.
Alrighty, Jumping into the episode now. So we're at a park. We can see several cars, very fancy cars, parked in a row alongside a small park bench. And then we hear the gang talking about how great this picnic is. And we're thinking, hang on, it's nighttime. What in the world are we all doing? And then we pan over and we finally see the gang. We see that Fred is scanning Wesley for bugs. She finishes, tells the gang that they're all clean and that nobody is listening. And then the real talk begins. I love how they're all, like, gushing about this picnic. And it's like, in the middle of the night, and they're like, we should do this all the time. And then, like, Wesley's like, can someone pass like this, like, fancy.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: I think angel can't have a picnic in the daytime. I think they should go to the park at night and have a nighttime picnic.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: You know what? Nighttime picnics are really fun. They're super underrated. I've done it before, and it's very romantic. Not that that's what angel had in.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: Mind, but angel did it in the cemetery.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: That's true. They would do that all the time.
[00:16:37] Speaker B: So that's their little date spot. So I don't see why angel can't do it with his friends, too.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: I agree. I'm all for it. So then Gun talks about how weird it is they have to hide from the company that they're supposed to be running Angels. Like, we're not hiding. We're being safe. There are factions that. Wolfram and Hart. People who want to see us destroyed. And Fred's like, but it's not like everybody there is evil. I mean, we work with these people. Some of them I see more than I see you guys. At least lately. Anyway. Wesley's ears perk up, and he's like. And you think you can trust him? And then Fred, like, looks at him and he's brother. And I was like, we're still on this?
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Please.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: I'm to the point where I'm like, any hint of romance? And I'm like, no, no. I pull out my cross in my holy water.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: No, seriously, my spray bottle filled with holy water. Just back up.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: Literally down. Get back. Yeah, the hiss.
Wesley's, like, trying to calm himself down. He's like, these.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Trying to calm himself down.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: The ones. Yeah, the werewolf is coming out of Wesley. Full moon. He's like, the ones that you're spending so much time with lately. Knox, for example.
Oh, gosh. And he, like, turns and looks out over the city, trying to pretend like he's super unbothered. And then Fred's, like, still shooting him weird glances, and she's like, well, you. You know, we're friendly, but he's under me. Or I'm on top of him professionally. All I'm saying. And then Wesley's like, looks super uncomfortable.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: I just think it's. Sorry. I just think it's a little weird how, like, Gun and Fred are the only two that have dated in this fucking group yet they're the only two that act normal around each other.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah. They basically don't acknowledge that they were.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Even in a relationship.
It's also kind of weird. That is like, we're just gonna pretend that that didn't happen.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: I wish. Yeah. I wish there was, like, some nods every once in a while, but I get. The show's trying to move past it. The show also wants to erase everything that happened last season, too, so that's fine.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: I'm not saying that I don't like that, but it's just, like, bizarre. I'm just like, these dynamics are very weird. But obviously they're going with the Wesley, Fred. They haven't explored that yet, so.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Oh, yay. Can't wait. Which is so funny because normally I'm all on Wesley and Fred ship, but after this rewatch, I'm like, stay away.
Don't do it. It's like poison.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: It is.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: What I will say is this scene is in contrast to the end scene. And it's meant to show that the gang is very separated. They're extremely busy. And because they all have their separate labs, offices, work, jobs, all that stuff, they're not seeing each other. And they're not the happy little family that they were last season.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Which were they?
[00:19:12] Speaker A: I'm like, personally, thank God. But the show seems to think that's a bad thing.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Were they a happy family last season or even the season before for, like, a lot of.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.
So then Angel's like, all right, we all know that the senior partners have put us in charge for a reason. What we need to know is why everyone talks about how they don't have time to do overt ops with all the running around that they're doing. Wes and Fred suggest that maybe Gun know something. With all the knowledge that Wolfram and Hart has put into his brain. Everyone expresses concern, and Gun defends himself, which we'll talk about it when we get there. But, like, the last scene tries to be like, oh, look, happy family. They're all good. It's fine. This feels like pretty big stuff to be like, hey, we don't know if we can trust you because you hid something from us. Like, I don't know that that would be something that they could just quickly brush under the rug and be like, okay, well, we're family again. Like, it's kind of a big thing to hide from everyone.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: But also, Gun has definitely, like, drank the Kool Aid a little bit.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's normally not like that. I know it's a little weird what.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Has gone into you, Charles?
[00:20:19] Speaker A: He likes.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: I guess it's the. The brain stuff that they did to him.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I do like that. He says, I made a deal. We all did. Seems like I'm the only one who's willing to accept. Accept that everybody here got something out of this. And he's not wrong. Yeah, he's the one that possibly just has it irreversible, though. So I don't know that he should be out there being like, hey, I'm.
This.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: This episode. I think what I really liked about it was how the team worked so well together again. Everybody was doing amazing, Sweetie.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I really enjoyed that. So then this sends a few of them down the rabbit hole. Wes talks about his fancy pen that he got. Angel's like, the point is, Wolferman, Hart has a plan. We need to be pre prepared. They talk about how busy they are. One of the distractions is Spike. Fred catches us up and Says that Spike is still bound to the amulet and that he's not quite a ghost, but is still something unique. During this, angel hears something and asks to borrow Wesley's pen. And then nearby woman screams as a growling, hairy monster follows her, knocks her down to the ground, attacks her and then bites her neck. Angel pulls the monster off, fights him, and then jams Wesley's silver pen through its chest. The creature falls to the ground, then immediately turns back into the shape of a man, which is a new development because in the past, werewolves have stayed werewolves after they've died. So then the girl runs away, and then the next sound is car tire screeching. Interestingly, the werewolf design is different, which I think most people can tell. So they were designed by Robert hall of special effects agency Almost Human and were an intentional departure from the werewolf costume worn on Buffy. They were saying. This is a quote from Robert Hall. They were saying Oz looked like a gay possum. Hall says he decided to design the werewolf with sparse hair so that the muscles underneath were clearly visible. The script wanted a big, bad wolf, he explains. I think it literally said, don't make it look like a gay possum.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: A gay possum? What does that even mean? Like, yeah, seriously, what does that even mean?
[00:22:15] Speaker A: I'm just, like, imagining the mice from the Sugar Plum Fairy. Like, is it like the Broadway show or something like that? They're, like, dressed and they're super, like, funny looking.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yassified.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: Yeah, the yassified mice or something.
Is it like a yassified werewolf?
I always thought it'd be possums here.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: I always thought that the Oz werewolf getup just looked like a giant, like, hairball just rolling around.
Like a giant. Something you would remove from, I don't know, like some part of your body that's, like, growing on your body or something. You have it removed and it's just like this hairy.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: Like, it's so bad. I really love.
I really loved the season two phases werewolf. Although I understand that it was a very. It was very clunky and they couldn't move their head. But it looked so good in that one shot where it's, like, walking down the alley and then it runs into Angelus and stuff.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: I think it's best when they shoot werewolves in the dark and we just see parts of them and from far away. It works out better that way.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Don't look at it too closely. I agree this design was still not amazing, but. Yeah.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: But I think they did well with it with, like, the camera work and the lighting, for sure.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: You know, it didn't look like a gay possum to me. So. Congratulations, Robert Hall.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: It looked, like, scarier to me in this episode than it has in previous ones before. I was just like, oh, my God, it's just a rabid, like, sack of flesh with hair on it.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a tumor.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: It's a tumor.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: Comes out with teeth and hair and. Yeah, yeah, let's not talk about Veruca, the other character. That just makes me absolutely angry for no reason. Anyway, all right, so then Angel's like, ah, gosh, she got away. So the back. In Wolfram and Heart, angel and Gun are taking. Or they're talking as they walk through the lobby. Angel's holding the sketch of the girl. He's like, she was bitten. I smelled her blood on him. And guns. Like, tonight's the second night of the full moon. Which means two more nights for her to go all Dog Girl. He reassures angel that they will find her. Angel's like, she's not even going to figure out what's happening to her. And guns like, well, she'll figure it out soon enough. McManus did the guy that you killed? He says, I pulled his credit card records. Cross checked him with police records. And then he talks about how he left his wife and kids a couple years ago, kept moving, staying in the middle of nowhere most of the time. And it says for the first year or so, it was, like, a few bodies here or there. But then the last six months, he was leaving a lot of corpses. Which, again, the idea of, like, if you lose all your human connections, then the animal wins. So Angel's like, probably tried to control it for a while, just gave up. And then he's like, thought he had to fight it alone. Ended up with nothing worth fighting for. But this girl, she's not alone. She's got us back in Fred's office, she's working when Spike appears and asks for an update about himself, but realizes that Fred is working on the werewolf girl instead. I was kind of cackling a little bit on how Fred was like, hey, Spike, this isn't important. Stop being dramatic. We'll get to it when we get to it. And he's like, fine. Guess I'll die then. And he just likes out and just disappears.
Yeah.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: It's just so funny how, like, nobody has time for Spike's shit on this show.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it's refreshing.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, because on Buffy, he just would bully everybody into listening to him. But that's not gonna work here.
[00:25:35] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: Today, Satan. I do feel bad for him in this episode. At first, I was kind of annoyed. I'm like, oh, my God, Spike, you're so selfish. You just want everybody to focus on you. And then by the end, I'm just like, oh, no, he's scared. Spike is genuinely terrified, and that's why he's acting like the world revolves around him. Not just because he's Spike and he always acts like that, but because there's, like, a genuine reason. And I was like, oh, no. Like this kind of scary. I'd also be bugging the only person that I could ask for help to help me if I was that scared.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's both. Things can be true, right? Like, we have compassion and pity for him, but at the same time, it's kind of good for him to realize he's not first priority because he's so used to things just happening whenever he wants it to or he makes it happen. And for the first time, he's not in control. And there's kind of that fear there. But also, it's kind of like he needs to. He needs to sit in his mistakes for a little bit, too. That's something. Like, Spike needs to have some time away from all the things that give him purpose and meaning, the things that he uses as vices to kind of sit there and go, okay, what am I going to do with my life? And let's think about some of the things I've done in the past.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: You know, speaking of terrible things that Spike has done, Harmony wasn't in this episode.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I thought you were going to talk about the big fat lie he was talking about with his history with Wesley. That was like.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: That was like business as usual. But I was just like. I just realized that Harmony was not in this episode. And I was sad about that because I love Harmony because we can only.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Have one blonde girl in an episode at a timely. Okay, there, there.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: It should be hard.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Their viewership would just.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Angel just wouldn't know where to.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: I take Harmony over Nina.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: I take Harmony over a lot of.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: People, honestly, you know, I sense more tension between Harmony and Angel than I do Nina and Angel. And that is my hot take for the episode.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: It's a hot take.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: Leia's like, I really don't see the.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: Vision, but I respect your opinion.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: You know, I could see it. Someone write the fanfic. I. I want. I just would want to see how it play out.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: You know, I feel like it wouldn't.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Fair enough. It's okay, we all have our opinions.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: Yes.
Yeah. Anyway, all right. So then Fred's like, stop being dramatic. Try not to disappear, and we'll figure it out eventually. And just leaves this. This. Again, the theme of the mind being, like, really strong, kind of like power through. Don't let yourself go there. Like, Fred's basically like, hey, you can control whether or not you disappear at this point. Like, eventually he's going to completely disappear. Completely. But we see that there are certain times when he just winks out of existence. And so Fred's kind of just like, you'll be okay. Maybe slightly insensitive, but at the same time, there's a point there. So when we cut to the lab, we hear angel being like, we're useless. Is that what you're trying to tell me, friend? Wes don't have the girl's fingerprints and she left nothing at the attack scene. Spike drops in. It's like somebody's slipping. Wes shows angel an image that the psychics have picked up off the traces of the girl's blood. A doctor who is examining the body of the man slash werewolf tells angel that it's a pretty rare breed. Dr. Royce, he says that it's a biped, can walk upright. Angel's like, I don't care about that. All I care about is the girl.
Another thing too, is angel was super, like, rude.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: To a lot of the gang at times in this episode. Which was another reason I know they were trying to make, again, the point that, like, oh, he's kind of moved away from everybody. And so the animal slips out and stuff like that. But it's just like, I don't know. If I worked for him, I. And I was his friend, I would be having a pretty big heart to heart and being like, hey, dude, like, you can't treat me like this.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: I think Lauren does. And he finally listens to Lauren for once.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:18] Speaker B: You know.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah. He just was like, especially that scene with gun. He was super unkind to him.
Spike says some more stuff. And then Angel's like, here on out, the girl's under my protection. And then Spike says, if you find her before she turns, catch her after she goes all growly. Won't be easy taking her out. I had a wee spat with a werewolf myself once. Fought for over an hour. Brutal, vicious. Almost lost my. Starts wiggling his fingers. Then Fred's like, anyway, angel killed him with a pen. And then Spike's just like, oh, he's so confused. Fred is like, like, I've had enough.
She's like, it was actually really easy. Okay, now just for sure focus and you'll stop disappearing. Okay?
So then at Nina's bedroom, we see her waking up from a fitful sleep. She's covered in sweat. Her hearing is a lot better. She goes into the kitchen where her sister and her niece are cooking. The kid asks why her neck is purple, and she kind of zones out on the blood on the meat. And then her sister asks, asks if she can watch Amanda that night while she works at the hospital. Nina imagine slashes on Amanda's throat, licks her lips to the blood again. And then it's like, I'm fine. We're like, oh, no, clearly. Clearly you are Jenny Mullen, who is, interestingly married to Jason Briggs, who is Jim from American Pie. She originally auditioned for the role of Eve, and the part obviously went to Sarah Thompson. And the producers apparently liked Mullen so much, she was brought back as Nina Ash, AKA Werewolf Girl. And producer Jeffrey Bell says Nina is not becoming regular, but there was good chemistry, so we talked about bringing her back. There are no master plans for angel and Werewolf Girl, but we're always open to the possibility. And I just.
What chemistry?
Maybe. Maybe. Maybe there was chemistry when she was acting as Eve.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. I don't know.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: But I just.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Just.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: I'm like, some. Okay, this is gonna sound so mean. This is my other hot take, guys. Maybe it's hotter than my last one.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: Sometimes I think that.
That the whoever's in charge of recruiting and hiring actors and looking for couples and stuff on this show doesn't know what chemistry is.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: It's. It's like it's more of a hit or a miss than a hit on this show, I find.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: I agree.
Anyway, back to the lab. Fred's looking at photos of tire prints on her computer. Lauren looks over her shoulder. Fred figures out they are looking for a sedan. Gwen. Gwen Gun comes in and is like, hey, someone saw the sketch of Nina. I was gonna say Gwen again.
Spotted the girl in East Sarah. I do.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Thank you. Back to the time when there was chemistry on the show.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I am like, where is Gwen? Is Gun, like, still hitting her up for booty calls? Like, are they in a relationship?
[00:32:13] Speaker B: I don't think they are. I think she's just off doing her own cool thing because she's cool. She's a lot cooler than all of these people combined, honestly.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you know what? Run, Gwen. Be free. Be free from the show.
So Lauren and Gun figure out that they should be looking at the security cameras, and Spock is. Spike is like, it's a lot of fuss over one girl when there are more important things to do. Angel's like, you know what that whoosh thing that you do when you're suddenly not there anymore? I love that. And then gun's like, all right, we found her. He was like, here's the printout to Angel. And they figure out that her name is Nina Ash and where her address is. So back at Nina's house, she's babysitting Amanda. They play games. She starts not feeling good. Then she goes upstairs to lie down, shuts her door, and then collapses, practices on the floor and starts to transition. Of course, Amanda hears the thumping, comes upstairs, and we have that super tense moment where we think she's going to come into the room after Nina has completely transformed. And then angel baits Nina werewolf through the window. She jumps out, attacking him. And then Wes tranx her, and they take off, leaving poor freaking Amanda home alone. I was like, okay, guys. Which I know they. They wouldn't have known. That's not something they necessarily needed to accommodate for, but that poor girl.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: I mean, they definitely should at least leave somebody posted up outside to make sure the girl's okay.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Have Fred stay. Fred and her can have, like, a little cute sleepover slumber party.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: Yeah, but that would have been weird. Like, she'd be like, who are you? Why are you in my house? Where's my aunt?
[00:33:45] Speaker A: That's true.
That's true. Too many questions. But it just gets creepier. Yeah, it just get like, hey, we are back to the good old days of season one and two, when angel would go meet this poor girl in a car garage in the middle of the night and just, like, approach her and be super, like, intimidating. So we have, like, human naked. Nina wakes up in a prison cell. She's got scratches. And then she sees the clothes, barely puts it on before angel just, like, comes in and walks right into her cell and corners her. What he should have done is, like, opened it and started like, I don't know. There's a better way he could have done this personally, is what I think. He's like, you're safe. She's like, you're creepy. She tries to make a run for it. He catches her, and he's like, hey, I want you to see something. Cut to his office, where she realizes they had a camera on her all night. And they see her literally transform back into her naked self. And she's like, oh, my gosh, I'm the werewolf.
And then she's like, oh, my gosh. Like, I smelled the blood. And she was like, I was thinking about my niece. And he's like, she's okay. So is your sister. And Nina is just, like, confused, completely horrified. And angel says, it wasn't you. It was that thing inside of you. And Nina's like, oh, like there's a difference. And he says, there is actually a big one. I know this is a lot to take. And she says, don't tell me what you know. You didn't wake up and find out that you're a monster. You don't know anything. And he's like, actually, I'm. I'm a monster, too.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Actually, I wake up and find out I'm a monster every day. Nina.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Yeah. He's like, I can't even sleep because of the horrors that are inflicted upon me. In fact, I was. Is cursed with a soul. So take that.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: I invented having a monster inside of me.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Exactly. She's like, what? You're like Frankenstein.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: I love how he's like, what? And then he touches his forehead.
Did you see that?
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Yes, I did. I thought that was because of, like, his vamp face, but also because, like, Frankenstein has, like, the bumps.
[00:35:43] Speaker B: That's what I thought. Angel's like, little self conscious. He's like, does she think I look like Frankenstein?
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Angel's like, I'm not like other demons. I'm a vampire, and I have a soul.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: And he has the face of.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: I'm not evil.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Isn't that what they called him?
[00:35:56] Speaker A: And neither are you. Yeah.
[00:35:58] Speaker B: His sister at the face of an angel.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: And they were not lying when they said so.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: He's beautiful.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: And then Nina's like, well, Nina thinks so too. She's like, but vampires kill people. And he's like, they can control themselves if they want to. I do it every day. And so can you all help? Again, this is all kind of Spike is layered here under all this stuff. So when Angel's talking about himself, a lot of this actually applies to Spike now, and it's the show kind of also holding Spike accountable and saying, hey, you can control yourself if you want to. Angel does it every day. So can you kind of like, there's no excuse for this. Um, Nina asks if he can cure her, and Angel's like, no, but I can keep you safe. So then we cut to the lobby, and Angel's walking out of his office, And Fred and Dr. Royce are waiting outside. He tells them that she had. She had agreed to stay in the holding cell, but that she's scared and he isn't sure what to do next. Roy says that he's seen werewolves get violent with themselves during transformation, that they need to keep her sedated for the next night. Yet he's like, we need to figure something out for their long run. Saying that this isn't going to be sustainable. He suggests that she gets some familiar things from home, as it might help calm her down. So this entire time, Spike just keeps interjecting, making comments. And he does it again, saying fetching her blankie is not going to make a bloody bit difference. And Fred's like, spike really not helping.
[00:37:14] Speaker B: I love how it's always he just yap yap. Y y y y y y.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: He's like, hey, Fred. Hey Fred. Hey Fred. She's like tapping on her her shoulder. Mom, Mom, mom, mom, can I have a snack?
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Mom, I'm hungry.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Have you fixed me yet?
[00:37:27] Speaker B: I have to pee.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: Mom, Mom. I'd really like to be non corporeal. Mom, Mom. Or corporeal. I guess he is already non corporeal. Fred's like, just shut up and leave me alone.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Seriously.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: Anyway, you're grounded. So he's like, that girl's a killer. Maybe not tonight or tomorrow, but she will get out of that cage. Angel says, not if she doesn't want to. And Royce is like, well, unfortunately she will want to. And then Spike's like, and when it's not that time of month, she'll be racked by the guilties, what with a soul and all. And Angel's like, didn't seem to bother you. Spike's like, oh, it's been nothing but a pain in my. And then he disappears. And angel goes, finally.
So he tells Fred and the doctor to have security take Nina to her house since it's the middle of the day and he can't do it. So Fred and Nina are riding in the van along with a couple of security guards. Fred's like, you're not a prisoner. We just need to make sure you don't try to run and bite anyone else. She tells her that her life won't change all that much, just three nights a month. Nina asks if Fred's a monster too, and she's like, nope, but angel saved me from a health dimension a few years back. Nina's like, guess he saves a lot of girls, huh? Yeah, you're. Yeah, you're not wrong.
Specifically blonde haired ones. So you're not special, Nina. Get that in your head.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: This is the first fictional character that I've seen. You had this much beef with. Just right off the bat, I.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: You weren't around for Veruca. I hate Ruka. But then we haven't. We haven't gotten to Kennedy yet, and I'm just, like, saving all my wrath for season seven. Kennedy, Damn. She gets under my skin like nobody else. I don't know what it is about Nina. I just don't like her.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: Don't think you're special. Special Nina.
[00:39:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
I think it's like just the absolute Buffy erasure that this show has had. And all of a sudden they throw in another blonde girl, like, oh, they won't notice. And I'm just like, I don't know.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: I mean, I'm happy that Buffy's very far away from this hot mess, so. Living her best life in Europe.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: She is.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: You know.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: So then Fred's like, yeah, girls, guys, puppies. He's pretty much an equal opportunity saver. And so the. Nina's like, fishing. So you guys are a couple? Fred's like, no, he was seeing someone sort of, but heavy on sort of at all, you know? And I appreciate how ambiguous this is. Could it. Because it could mean Buffy, and she could be referring to, like, his whole sex situation. Well, I think she was.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: I think when she says the situation is complicated, I think she's talking about the curse.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Which, wow.
But I think she's, like, referring to. Oh, the person he was seeing. She was talking about Cordelia. But the thing is, like, angel and Cordelia were not seeing each other, though. That's why when she was like, sort of, I was like, yeah, heavy on the sort of. Because that wasn't like an actual thing.
That wasn't real.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: Yes. That's why this is referring to Buffy. So moving on. But then Nina's like, oh, must be lonely. I will comfort him.
Fred's like, sometimes, maybe, but it's not like he doesn't have anyone. We all. We try to be there for each other. And Nina's like, like a family. And Fred's like, yeah, a demon hunting, helpless, helping, dysfunctional family.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:43] Speaker A: Oh, here we are again. Next we're going to be hearing the words Moira.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Today, David Boreana shared something on his story about. It was like a. An Instagram post talking about champions. And I physically recoiled when I read the word champion from his story, season six of Angel. I was like, oh, God, David, don't do this to me right now. Can we please remove that word from the English language? Please? I'm begging.
[00:41:15] Speaker A: Hey, we haven't had it in a While. So I apologize for triggering everyone. It's okay. Okay. All right, back in. Gwen. Gwen. Oh, my gosh.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: Are you okay?
[00:41:27] Speaker A: Nope. Nope, I am not.
At least I'm not calling you Cordelia or Lila.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: You can call me Lila. That's okay.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm gonna start calling you Eve. Or maybe Nina. I don't know. Who knows what's going to pop out of my mouth. That's.
[00:41:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Yeah. In nun's office. I'm trying. I'm trying. Angel signs papers to turn McManus's body to his family. Seems distracted with. Then we find out that Angel's thinking about Nina and how her life is going to be a lot harder now. Gun tries to cheer him up. Angel's super rude. Tells Gun to just go and do his job. Sorry, he doesn't have to work here.
[00:42:03] Speaker B: Excuse me. Since when has Gun taken order from your ass, Angel?
[00:42:08] Speaker A: Yeah, literally. Lauren. Sweet, sweet angel, baby. Lauren walks in and is like, hey, you seem super grouchy and is like, why don't you consider me the Jenny Craig for the soul? Let's hear it. Angel's like, I'm not gonna sing. And Lauren's like, I couldn't bear it if he. No, it's talking you need. Or maybe a shoulder, too. And Angel's like, I'm not going to cry either. And Lauren's like, all right. I was thinking more like Aileen. He's like, you got the weight of the world. It's a burden, sure, but breaking news, it ain't. Angel says, listen, Lauren, this isn't a good time. Lauren says, no, it never is. Spike showing up your first day in the Wolfram and Heart saddle took the jolly right out of the Rancher. We've been feeling it ever since. Angel cakes. Angel says, okay, so it's no secret I don't like the guy. And Lauren says, like him. Don't like him. That's up to you. You're fighting so many enemies around you, Angel. Your P are getting sloppy and we've got the bruises to prove it. Oh, that was such a good line. We're operating in unfriendly territory, champ. I don't want you to forget about all the people covering your back.
[00:43:05] Speaker B: Period.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: So, so good. And I. I think there is a subliminal thing here that Angel's also thinking about Connor. And I think with the messaging of this episode and of this season so far, there's a very clear thing that. Or at least to me, it feels like the episode is hinting that angel hiding Connor from the rest of the gang, not talking about it. All that stuff is involuntarily separating him from everybody else, and he can't truly connect to everybody possibly until they actually, like, come out with all of that stuff. And so I'm really curious to see if that's what the show is going to end up talking about and discussing, but I think that there is some of that that's happening here. This is now the third episode in a row, I think, where angel is kind of thinking about this stuff with Connor and taking it out on other people.
[00:43:54] Speaker B: I think that makes sense because it's like. Like, how do you express your grief about something that nobody else knows about? And I think that just translates into lashing out.
[00:44:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: Those people. Because it's like, I want to share my grief with you, but I can't because you don't know that it even happened. Which, bro, you kind of did it to yourself. But also, stop treating your friends like it's not their fault that you can't share your grief, because they don't know. I just think angel tends to get inside his own head a lot, and that's, like, always been a thing that he does, and nobody knows why. This time, to be able to, like, snap him out of it, you know, so he has to do the work himself.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: Yeah. It's unfair. It's unfair of him to be doing this. Totally agree. Yep. So at Nina's house, Fred and Nina come out of the van. They walk towards her home, and Nina's, like, really scared to go in, is afraid she won't be accepted. And then Fred's, like, running away is not going to help. They get inside, and Jill, Nina's sister, starts yelling at her, justifiably telling her that Amanda was terrified and left alone. She says, who leaves the house without their purse or keys? Would you do jump out the window? Yes. Fred tries to cover her butt, but Jill's having none of it. She's like, who are you? She tells Nina that she called the police because she was worried and Amanda was traumatized. Nina freaks out, and with all the pressure and panics and the. The. This acting choice, I just made me cringe. And she's like, you sleep all day. You've got bruises you don't remember getting. Just tell me what's going on. Nina says, I'm sorry about last night, but you can't count on me all the time. Just, like, sense when Nina's like, just find another babysitter. And then just, like, takes off. And I was like, this was handled so horribly. Fred just, like, grabs, like, some random stuff, and it's like, okay, I'm just gonna take this and this. I'm sure she'll be okay. They go outside, and Fred's like, hey, she cares. I can tell. Nina keeps freaking out about something happening to Amanda. And then they both see that the van door is open and the security guards are all dead inside. Fred pulls out a gun. They take off running and then are quickly overtaken by masked people who knock out Fred and kidnap Nina. And we hear a masked man saying into his phone, we got the package. And we cut to a mansion where a man answers the phone and is like, bring it around back. I just had the floors done.
And then the episode takes a pretty dark turn because then we have the men chaining Nina up in a basement. Another woman walks into the room. They spray water all over her. She cuts off Nina's clothes and then just starts scrubbing down. This would be traumatizing.
So then in the conference room, Lauren's listening to Dr. Royce singing Jesse's Girl. And Lauren's like, hey, he's good. It's fine. He's not bad. And the office, Angel, Wesley, Fred, and Gun are having a meeting, trying to figure out what to do next. And then Wesley's like, lawrence, read the entire security team and the lab staff, as well as half my department. Angel's like, if the kidnappers have someone inside Wolfram and Hart, Lauren will know. And they're like, well, what if she was detected somehow before we found her? And then Fred's like, they were incredibly organized. And that's when we have Wesley giving that initiative nod. Races an underground monster hunting military organization. It's happened before. Fred's blaming herself. Angel's like, no, if anything happens to Nina, it's on me.
And then Gun's like, all right, enough. Enough with the mocking. He's like, got enough of that from Blondie Bear. And then Fred's like, hang on, Blondie Bear. Has anyone seen him since? And then Angel's like, since he went poof, no. So then Fred's like, hey, it's been hours. But then they get interrupted by Royce knocking on the door. He gives Angel a list of people who would want a werewolf. Just then, Fred sees a transparent spike walking through the lobby. She chases after him, calling for him, but he continues upstairs, not answering her before he disappears through a wall into an office. And then she goes into the office. And then he disappears through another wall. And she runs towards him and knocks over a Trash can trying to get to him, and then stops when she notices something peculiar. Just then, Dr. Royce walks. Walks in. He's like, hey, were you looking for me? And I love this fake out because I genuinely forgot about it. She's, like, talking and talking, and then she just grabs the lamp and just smashes him over the head. And we're like, hang on. What did she see in the trash?
So then that night, Fred, Gunn, and Wes are rifling through his office. And then Wesley finds a vial with a substance. And we find out that Dr. Royce took it and it allowed him to bypass Lauren's singing examination Gun pulls out the false bottom of a drawer, reveals Polaroid photos, a knife, and papers. And he's like, hang on. So then back into Angel's office. Angel's throwing Royce against the wall is like, where is she?
And then Rice is like, hey, you're not as scary as this other guy. He's like, you're actually a good guy, but he's, you know, he's scarier than you. Angel vamps out back in Royce's office. Fred Wesson gun. Go through the items in the secret compartment. Fred finds some icky Polaroids because, you know, we need to know this guy is really bad. And then we also need to justify angel throwing him to the rich people to be eaten later on so too. So he has to be a perv. On top of everything, Wes finds the weird curved knife, and then gun ends up finding a piece of paper, discovering something in the process. And then they go to Angel's office, and Angel's like, I know where she is. And Fred's like, I know what they're gonna do to her. And they realize that it's a menu. So then we cut to the banquet hall at the mansion, and a freshly scrubbed Nina, wrapped in, like, a sheet, is gagged and tied to a table and is rolled out, surrounded by greenery, into the dining room. And everyone's, like, clapping for her. And the main dude is like, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming. We have a very rare and special treat for you tonight. Moon rises in 15 minutes. Shortly thereafter, dinner will be served. And I. All I could think was, oh, my gosh. As the host is talking about his first time eating a werewolf. I was like, I hope Oz is okay.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Somewhere they'll never get Oz.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: He's like, yeah, my first out of body experience. I was like, oh, gosh, I hope Oz is okay.
There's a knock on the door. Waiter goes to answer, and it's Dr. Royce. And then he opens the door, and then gun knocks him out. And angel and Wes and Gun come in with Dr. Royce, and gun's like, I'm all up in the law now, but damn, it feels good to get my violence on Royce. It's like, Crane's not gonna like this. Angel's like, you know, hope the girl's alive. And then Wesley says she has to be at least through dinner. Once a werewolf dies, it reverts to its human state. And I was just.
[00:50:20] Speaker B: So they were just planning on eating her while she was still alive?
[00:50:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And basically trying their best to keep her alive.
So then Crane comes in and is like, oh, my gosh, you brought guests. Gun puts a shotgun, points a shotgun at Crane. Angel knocks at the chef. Angel walks up to Nina.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: He's like, jesus, they garnished you.
[00:50:46] Speaker A: He's like, pulling out, like, leaves and stuff out of her hair. And then this is the other part where I just was like, oh, this makes no sense. And I can't tell. I think it was both the acting and the writing. And she's like, no, get away. Just let them choke on me. I was like, girl, when did you want to die?
[00:51:02] Speaker B: And also, it's the fact that we haven't spent enough time with Nina for us to believe that she would just give up this easily. For her to just want to die and get eaten alive, because I can understand. She's never killed anybody. She's actually only had one transformation. She hasn't experienced being a werewolf to the point where she's reached her wits end. She's like, oh, my God, just end it now. There's no investment, I guess, in her decision.
[00:51:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, I think we needed to see maybe, like, more of her before she became a werewolf. Maybe she has some guilt from that. That also, kind of, like, translates into being a werewolf. I mean, maybe it'd be too dark if they had her accidentally, like, majorly injuring her niece. Or I don't want to say killing, because they have to have the whole reunion, reunification at the very end and stuff. Because the whole point is that she needs people around her. But there needed to be something that required more guilt from her than just. Just, oh, I turned into a werewolf one night and thought about slicing.
[00:52:02] Speaker B: And maybe that's supposed to be the thing. Like, she's so scared that she'll hurt her niece. But we just haven't spent enough time with this character.
[00:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Also, if you want to die, there are much better ways to do it. Then this sounds like a horrible way.
[00:52:15] Speaker B: I Think she deserves this.
[00:52:16] Speaker A: And very long and drawn out.
[00:52:17] Speaker B: But why do you think you deserve this?
[00:52:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think they were hoping that connection would be in Spike and Angel and us seeing the correlation and being like, oh, so the guilt that angel and Spike have felt, that's supposed to transfer onto me? Different person.
[00:52:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:37] Speaker A: Doesn't quite work. Yeah. So then Nina's like, I can't go back to my home. This is better. Angel's like, nothing better about ending up in a doggy bag. The gun's, like, still holding the gun on to Crane is like. Like, looking at the menu, he's like, what? No leprechaun souffle? Crane's like, oh, there's no such thing as leprechauns. Then other men with guns sneak up on Wesley, and gun pointing, cocked, weapons at them. Wesley's like, we've hit a snag. Angel. Angel's like, we're not leaving without the girl. Crane's like, I'm willing to let my men die. Can you say the same? I think this was supposed to be a big moment of, like, oh, my gosh, has angel really, like, deviated from his friends so much? And then Gun says, I go, you're going with me. Angel says. Says, probably she'll should have told me to drop this. And then he throws an urn into the air, then punches Crane. Someone shoots angel, knocking him back. Nina turns into a werewolf and growls as she lunges at the guards or at the guests. She bites a man on the neck, ripping his throat out. Gun points his shotgun at Nina, but hesitates. But, of course, you know, Wesley steps in, shoots her with a tranquilizer dart. Nina falls to the ground. And then Gun's like, oh, phew. And then Angel's like, this is the part where we take our friend and go. And Crane's like, I'm afraid not. Tonight may not be salvageable, but my gift guests have paid a high price. And then he looks at the man that Nina attacked, and he's like, I promised them a werewolf. Nina rolls over, suddenly, bites Dr. Royce's leg. And then Wes shoots her again. And Angel's like, well, in a month, you'll have one. Oh, that's a little morally questionable. I guess that would be a way to placate the Wolfram and Heart baddies while also helping the innocent.
[00:54:13] Speaker B: Now we're just taking liberty.
[00:54:15] Speaker A: Questionable.
Yeah. I feel like there should have been a little bit more focus on that. I mean, I guess it's kind of swept under the Rug in this. Like, it's. You could excuse it as he knew he was going to put him out of business so they wouldn't actually eat Royce. But like I. Compared to how big this moment was to that like small little sentence at the very end of the episode, it's very easily missed. And I feel like this was kind of a big moment. But yeah, this moment was. I feel like. I feel like we needed to address that. Maybe we'll come back up later. I don't know.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: I don't think it was a big moment.
Let's be honest. Let's be honest.
[00:54:53] Speaker A: We'll. Back to the sewers, boys. Maybe we need a little more guilt. A little more guilt, a little more shame.
Like, what is it you always say? We need more shame. People need more shame.
[00:55:04] Speaker B: I said we need to bring back public shaming.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: That's what it is. Yeah, shame. Shame. Angel publicly shaming you right now in.
[00:55:10] Speaker B: The time town square.
[00:55:12] Speaker A: Yeah, to the stockades.
So then they leave. In Fred's office, she walks in, turns on the lights and then Spike is just standing in the corner. Only the faintest of shadows, barely visible. He put himself in timeout. Good for him. What was he doing now? Sit in the corner and think about what you've done. Is he peeing? Marking his territory? Is he? I don't know if there is a whiteboard would be writing. Spike is a very, very bad vampire. Like 15.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: Oh, like when Umbridge made Harry Potter do that.
And then he had to write it into his arm or his hand. Yeah, I remember as a kid watching that scene and I was just like, this is so cruel. I hate her so much. How could you do that to Harry?
[00:55:56] Speaker A: Worst for sure.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: Umbridge.
[00:55:58] Speaker A: My God, she's worse than Voldemort.
[00:55:59] Speaker B: Worse. 1000%.
[00:56:02] Speaker A: So then Fred's like, spike, I've been looking for you. You were there again. Where you go when you're not here. And then Spike says, there. Nowhere. I didn't think I was coming back. And then she says, but you did. Mostly. And she says, you led me to Dr. Royce's office. She's like, that was completely not on purpose, was it? But still you're here. Spike says, last gas before eternal fire and brimstone. Fred says, we have to tell Angel. Spike says, no. She says, but he could do something. Talk to the senior partners. Spike says, I said no. Fred says, okay, then I'm going to help you. Well, I don't know exactly, but I am going to find a way to bring you back. Really bring you Back, back. I promise. Spike says, you know, becoming less and less transparent. Well, all right then. No need to get dramatic. You know, someone sees him. And then we cut to Angel's car. He's driving up to Nina's house with her, and he says, this is it. She's like, watching her niece, talking about how she's very good artist. Angel's like, oh, my refrigerator is always available if she's looking to show. Which is the cutest line. That is so cute. Oh, my gosh. Okay. I ship it. Okay.
[00:57:05] Speaker B: That was a. You switched up so quick, Sarah.
I don't believe you. I think you're lying.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: No.
Wow. It gave it away in the span.
[00:57:16] Speaker B: Of like, 20 minutes. You're switching up all of your. Nina. You're not so special. Don't even.
[00:57:24] Speaker A: And if it was with Nina, I think I'd be all right with it. But I thought that was pretty cute. I mean, one cute. And then I just think about how.
[00:57:32] Speaker B: It doesn't make ship. Shippable.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: You're right. I'm trist. I'm just joking. So I was laughing, really laughing.
At this point, they might be. They might be. To be quite frank, it's better than Connor and Cordelia.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: I mean, everything's better than Condilia.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: Yeah, but I was just like, this line reminded me of Daddy Angel. Like, how he would have loved Connor drawing things and probably put. Put it all over his refrigerator and stuff. I don't know. I just. It touched me. It was very sweet.
So then Nina's like, how do you live with it, knowing that you've killed people? And then he's like, nina, they were going to eat you for dinner.
[00:58:14] Speaker B: He's like, it's okay. You could have killed them. It's fine.
[00:58:18] Speaker A: He's like, bruh, self defense.
And then she's like, I just want to wake up, you know? And he goes, at some point, you'll be at the grocery store or with Amanda and the whole werewolf thing, it'll just. Just be a part of who you are. She says, next you're going to tell me you actually like being a vampire. And he says, well, being nearly indestructible is cool. And she says, I can't tell them. He says, baby, maybe not. That's. That part's not covered in the manual. They're waiting for you. She says, you don't ever think about letting. Go. Disappearing somewhere. And there's the connection to Spike. He says, well, look, if you separate yourself from the ones you love, the monster wins. And she says, you make it sound simple. And he says, well, it's not had. And she says, see you next month. I really like that conversation. It was very real, very raw.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: 100.
[00:59:01] Speaker A: It was nice to, like, have. It was just nice to hear angel talking about how he's feeling, how he's processing this whole thing, because him coming to terms with the monster inside of him is an ongoing process. It's not going to be something that's just going to be okay. I'm. I've acclimated. I'm okay now. It's just. It's always there, and I really like.
[00:59:19] Speaker B: It because it's such, like, an understated moment. They don't make a big deal out of it. It's not like a. A big revelation or whatever. It's just like a quiet moment of acknowledgment that, yeah, angel has learned these things. Like, he's grown and he's adopted this way of thinking. And, yeah, sometimes it may get away from him, but it is something that he's, like, trying to work toward. And I appreciate that, and I appreciate that. It's just, like, we don't have to make a big deal out of it because it's just an ongoing thing that he has to do. But it's nice to acknowledge it.
[00:59:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:59:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:51] Speaker A: It's a really, really nice reminder. And that alone is why this episode was refreshing in a lot of ways. The fact that we're starting to acknowledge things that the show has tried actively to just ignore.
[01:00:03] Speaker B: And that's what I like so much about this format, that the show does what they used to do in season one. And, like, here again, I like the Monster of the Week episodes because they're very, like, light. You get to meet a new character every episode, you get to meet a new monster. There's new stuff happening. It's very fun to watch. But at the same time, I like that they always tie to angel, you know, because I feel like we've been missing angel for so long, and I want to put the focus back on him.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like we've said since the beginning, the concept of angel as a vampire with a soul and what that all entails is deeply interesting to me. And it was interesting enough to Joss, the writers, and the network that they created an entire show about it. And when the show deviates from that is when I personally find it the least interesting. So I like it when they talk about that stuff.
So then, back at Angel's apartment, Lauren, Fred, Gunn, and Wes are staring out the window and apparently, he's invited them up for the first time, find out.
[01:01:06] Speaker B: That it's been a month, that they've been at Wolfram and Hart, which is, again, timelines. Wow.
[01:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah, wow. It's actually been a month versus season four. It was like. Like, it's been 24 hours.
I like that they, like, Fred thought that she saw the hotel, and it was like, a nice little nod.
And then Guns like, wow, I was starting to think we were never going to see the inside of this place. And angel says, I'm sorry, I probably should have had you guys over sooner, but I'm still trying to get used to this place myself. Lauren notices the bar and is like, hey, I'm gonna make cosmos for everyone. Gun asks about Crane's place. Angel says that it's closed down permanently. So, phew, you know, Know, makes me feel a little bit better morally. Fred grabs a menu so they can order food. Gun asks angel if he has a shot with the werewolf girl. And we're all like, okay, there's a romance here. All right, then. But again, I think. I think this is the show trying to cover a lot of the stuff they did in season one, but saying that angel has grown to the point now where he actually can think about having a relationship versus the fact that he was so mired in depression and shame and guilt. Like, having a relationship with anybody, let alone a friendship with somebody, was just out of the picture. So it shows growth, you know?
So Angel's like, well, she gave me a look. I'm like, what are we, like, in junior high? Wesley's like, wow, look. And then Fred, you know, talking on the phone, and she's like, yeah, we moved because apparently they used to order from this place all the time. And we cut. Or the episode ends with Fred ordering and families all back together.
And, you know, it was refreshing.
[01:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it was really refreshing.
[01:02:45] Speaker A: So I'll take it.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: I like to see these characters enjoy each other's company. And we haven't seen that in a very long time, you know, so it's nice that they. They're just sitting there. They're having a few cocktails, gonna eat some food in this, like, beautiful penthouse. And, you know, it's cute. I love it.
[01:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And Angel's inviting them back up to his space that is supposed to be his sacred space, as we learned last episode. So, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. And, yeah, I'm excited now that the show seems to be back on to the same track it was in season one. I'm excited to see where it's gonna go with that, but yeah. All right, guys, let us know your thoughts for this episode. Do you guys like it? Is it hit? Is it miss? What do you think of Nina? Do you hate her with a fiery passion like I do, or is she just kind of to how, you know, Leia feels about her?
Yeah, other than that. Werewolves. What do you think of the new costumes? Did you like the gay possum? Look, let us know.
[01:03:44] Speaker B: The gay possum.
[01:03:45] Speaker A: Now I just have sugar plum fairies stuck in my head and gay possums. Cat, if you're listening, there's your next assignment.
[01:03:52] Speaker B: Please meme this.
[01:03:54] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Just meme fodder over here.
[01:03:59] Speaker B: She's the meme queen at. What kind of name is Buffy on Instagram? Check her out.
[01:04:04] Speaker A: I cackle every time she posts something else. She, over the holidays, did Photoshop, like a family Christmas portrait in front of a tree. But it was like the Master. It was dial Drusilla and Angel. And I think it was like Drusilla holding baby, baby Spike.
I got a good check.
[01:04:24] Speaker B: No, it was Darla holding baby Spike.
[01:04:27] Speaker A: There it is. Yes, I. Yeah.
[01:04:29] Speaker B: Because I have nightmares about it. It.
[01:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah, it was very, very funny.
[01:04:33] Speaker B: I see it in my. When I close my eyes, and it's not a good thing.
[01:04:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:37] Speaker B: But thank you, Cat.
[01:04:38] Speaker A: Shout out to Cat. Very talented. Always making us laugh. We appreciate you. So. All right, guys, hope you have a great week, and we will talk to you all next time. Thanks so much for listening to Investigating Angel. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram @ InvestigatingAngel podcast, and you can email [email protected].
