Show Notes
Angel, Wes, Lorne, Spike and Gunn join together for their biggest battle ever, and for one of them, it will be his last.Â
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating angel, an angel rewatch.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Podcast where we analyze each episode of angel the series with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: And if you love angel, this is the podcast for you.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Angel. I didn't say becoming Buffy this time. Congratulations to me.
Today we are talking about season five, episode 22, not fade away, written by Jeffrey Bell and Joss Whedon, directed by Jeffrey Bell and aired May 19, 2004. And here we are, the series finale. Not just the series finale for angel, this is the Buffy verse series finale.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: That is the last televised episode. Crazy of the Buffy verse. That's crazy.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: It always kind of makes me a little sad when I watch it because I'm like, this is the last that we know about these characters on screen. I know there is, like, the comics and everything, but, like, from a screen standpoint, this is the last time we hear about any characters adjacent to Buffy.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it is crazy.
And what a way to go out.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah. This is a fantastic episode. I remembered all, pretty much all of the elements of the episode. Like, it's one of those things, you watch it and it just stays in your brain. Like, there's no getting it out. Like, I remembered all of the elements. But even just going back and watching it again, I was telling Leia, I don't typically watch the episodes like, on my tv. I just watch them on my computer. And I was like, no, I'm gonna put the DVDs in and I'm gonna watch it on my TV. And I just was like, oh, this is so cinematic. This is so good. Like, it was just. It was epic. I found myself going back to watch scenes over again just because there were so many moments that were. There were so many layers, so many things happening.
It just.
It's focused on every single character. Like, there's just so much to talk about. Like, I cannot say enough good things about this episode. Like, I love it and I hate it, you know?
[00:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely would say that this. I like this series finale more than chosen 100%. Just on a technical level. Like, this episode is nearly perfect, in my opinion. I agree. There's genuinely nothing that I would change about it, even though I still have mixed feelings about the plan. But I think that's more of, like, a narrative thing rather than an execution thing.
I think it was executed, like I said, perfectly. Every single character. It was like full circle moments.
Just the acting was on point, the score was on point, the cinematography, everything was amazing about this episode. And I love the Cliffhanger. It's probably one of my favorite ways to. That a show has ended on such a big ass cliffhanger and with just like the best final line. One thing about Chosen that I fucking hate is that Buffy's final line is like Spike's name or some dumb shit.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: And then, and then I think Don gets the final line saying, like, what are we gonna do now, Buffy? Which is really nice. I think it. I think that line does really encompass the end of Chosen. You know, like, Buffy's free to do whatever she wants now, but this, this final line, let's go to work. Oh, my God. Taking it back to the, to the pilot. And I'm just. Oh, chills. It's just so good. And I love it.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: And it literally ends with him in an action shot. Like he's going. He's going. He's has his sword and he's going after an unseen villain that we can't.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: See and a dragon.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: A dragon. Sorry, my bad.
But yeah, it's just.
There's just something so unsatisfyingly satisfying or satisfyingly unsatisfying. I don't know how to like, say that, you know, like, you want more. But it's also just, this is how it should end. This feels very appropriate. Even though obviously we want to know what happens and stuff. Like, it's just, it's. And just what a gutsy finale. Like, it ended and I, I just had this sense of like, that's it. Like, I knew that was it, but I was also like, that's it. Like, I don't know, the fact that.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: They killed off, presumably, like all of their main cast.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:39] Speaker B: Like, Wesley's dead. We're going to assume that Gun is going to die because he's 10 minutes away.
You know, the supernatural beings, it can kind of go either way. Like the vampires in Illyria, I can see them living, but like, killing off all of your main cast by the end of the show is insane.
But I mean, they told us with Doyle, eight episodes or what, nine episodes into the show, they killed off one of the three main characters. So, I mean, they all signed up.
[00:05:10] Speaker A: Kill off a lot of their other characters this season too. Like Cordelia died, Fred died. Like, that was kind of just foreshadowing, I think.
And Lauren, Mia, no idea what's happening with him either.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: And yeah, he's living a better life.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah. You know what? Good for him.
Yeah, man, we'll talk about that. Yeah. There's just so much about this episode that I absolutely love and Hate at the same time, but also love to hate.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: And.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah, anyway, let's. Let's talk about it. It's good. It's got good things.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Okay. So I think the thing that continues to intrigue me about this episode every time I watch it is the fact that the characters have been struggling with moral ambiguity all season long. And this finale really honors that.
And how we kind of are going. Is angel trustworthy this season? In this episode, is the fight worth fighting? Like, is the plan that they're doing and the cost, is it too high? And I think those are all questions we should be asking. And I think that's what the heart of the show has been, is to try to get us to that point in the season finale. Really.
It really hammers that home. Like, I feel like sometimes I wasn't paying attention, and now I'm like, oh, I am.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: I mean, I hadn't thought about it that way, but that makes sense. Complete sense. And that's the thing that bothers me about the episode, that that's what you.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: And I were talking about last episode.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: Too high for this battle. But I think that's the point. Like, that's.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Those are the questions that our characters have been asking themselves since the beginning. Yep.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: And that's especially the season. I remember saying, like, man, wouldn't it be better maybe if they just went and lived quieter lives and just did more good? Which I still think they there is good to be had there.
But it's like, is this worth it? Like, the cost that it's doing to your own morality?
And I think that is a question that this episode and this really, this show wanted you to ask.
Yeah. So according to IMDb, this is the highest rated episode of the entire series. I didn't double check that, but I'm gonna assume that that is correct. I wouldn't. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, honestly.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Is it? Okay? Yeah, it earns that for sure.
The episode title is perhaps a reference to a Buddy Holly song. The title could also be a reference to a famous line from Neil Young's song, My, My, My, hey, hey. Out of the blue, the lyrics go, it's better to burn out than to fade away. Since angel and his crew opt to possibly die in a blaze of glory fighting against Wolfram Heart rather than be worn down over time by their machinations. Also a reference to what angel says about how for one bright shining moment, we can show them they don't own us. Their lives in fight aren't meaningless. And the act of free will won't fade away. It's the spirit of things that lives on, even if they're dissolved to ash.
And then we have a quote or the Wikipedia kind of goes through and talks about how originally, when the show or this episode aired, people did not like it and that they'll. It had a lot of mixed reactions from critics, from fans, but as time has gone on, it's become more and more beloved. They said at the time of its initial airing. The episode garner mixed reactions. It appeared on Zap to its list of the worst series finales because we never saw the end of the fight. That's why it's the worst. Which is such a shallow. Like, you missed the point, guys. E. News quoted another fan as saying, well, that was the best first half of a season finale ever. What happened to part two? A different criticism came from essayist Roz Cavenet, who argued that this episode was a classic example of superhero exceptionalism. The idea that superheroes are exempt from normal considerations and entitled to ignore consequences. The characters attempt at redemption via a single gratuitous. Gratuitous heroic act of defiance. Which, I mean, okay, I don't disagree with this.
Yes.
Cabinet felt was contrary to Angel's message that redemption was only earned one day at a time by slow increments. Yes. Yeah, that is. That is a criticism I have for sure.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: That's fair. That's really fair. But that doesn't mean that it's necessarily like, at the end of the day, this is a TV show.
And I feel like this ending makes sense as, like a TV show. Does that make sense what I'm saying? But if we actually think about.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: You have to have a final act. It has to be culminated. There has to be some sort of cathartic release and it has to build up to something. Yeah, exactly.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah. But those are really valid criticisms. That's basically how I feel about, quote, unquote, the plan.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's my biggest thing too. It's like, wouldn't the bigger sacrifice be continue to live? Which is why you, both, you and I are like, I think they should have lived. And they. I think we had canon that they live at the end.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah. I my. In my head, they have to survive. And they do. And I think in the season six comics, they do survive.
And I think they should survive as a form of punishment. For the plan.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: For the stupid plan.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: For the stupid plan. You have to live and you have to clean up the mess you made.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yep. But it was your consequences. But, like it was epic consequences. Guess what? Half of LA is now in peril, has burned down all of that furniture you just brought in. You know, like, come on guys, use our heads.
And then Wikipedia goes on to say one time how overtime, however, Not Fade Away has come to receive critical acclaim and is now sometimes referred to as one of the best series finales of all time. The Futon Critic named it as the fourth best television episode of 2004, saying the series finale was filled with tons of great holy moments. Illyria's reaction to Wesley's death alone. But the closing moments cut right to the heart of what the show has always been about. The good fight and the quest for redemption itself is always a constant struggle. Huffington Post article about Series Finale cites it as one of the few dramas that ended in a way that felt emotionally, tonally and thematically appropriate.
IGN's full series review they said it stands as one of the best final episodes of any show ever. And on and on people just talk about how it just it was fantastic. And David Fury says the finale is very much how we discussed it would be before we got word of our cancellation. The body count would probably have been different since we were going to explore the Illyria Wesley relationship in season six, but otherwise launching into what looks like a no win battle was exactly where Joss had wanted the season to end up.
There's quotes from Joss Whedon talking about how basically with the exception of Wesley's death and probably Lindsay's as well, everything else would have been pretty much exactly the same.
He says this was not the final grace note after a symphony the way the Buffy finale was. We are definitely still in the thick of it, but the point of the show is that you're never done. No matter who goes down, the fight goes on.
Whedon obviously would have kept Wesley alive, but he says that the scene was one of his favorite moments that they shot. Similarly, Alexis Denisov said his character's demise was the perfect human death of a human life.
Um, interestingly, this episode also marks Alexis Denisov's 100th appearance as Wesley on the show, which is crazy. For some reason I feel like he'd.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Been in more 100th episode. Yeah.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Also crazy that Mercedes McNabb was in the unaired Buffy pilot and also in the angel finale.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Like, well, David Boreanas and Mercedes McNabb are the only two characters that were in both the first episode of Buffy in the last episode of Angel.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yep, yeah, I know. There's like a quote of Christian Cain who's like, yeah. David Boreanas and I were the only ones in the. In the Angel.
Angel premiere and in the finale together. And I was like, buddy, sorry, Mercedes has you built. Have beat there.
[00:12:54] Speaker B: David Boreanas has been in the most episodes in the Buffyverse, actually. I'm pretty sure.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Oh, does he, like, beat out Sarah Michelle Geller?
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Really?
[00:13:05] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: I think he doesn't, because white.
[00:13:10] Speaker B: He was in three seasons of Buffy, and he was not every single five seasons of Angel. So he. So Buffy season one was 13 episodes. He was in seven of those episodes, and then he was in 22 episodes of angel season five.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: So, like, true. Yeah. Then you might be.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: He's in every episode.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Not in every episode. Sorry. He's. He's in the most episodes in. He has, like, the most, I think, screen time across the Buffy verse.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: He also shows up in every single season of Buffy, with the exception of season six.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah, but they see each other off screen, right? Which he's at least technically, he's not. Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah. That's crazy. That's true. I hadn't even thought about that.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Okay. So there's a quote by David Boreanas in Slayers and Vampires where he says, this show and this character will be remembered for its sense of risk, its sense of style, a uniqueness to deliver story in a different manner, a uniqueness in character to expand with the other characters around him, to evolve into different types of characters, to be ever changing, the angst of conflict within him. There's so much to be remembered and so much to be proud of about that show and its use of mythology and verse and language and texture, just the way it was shot. It will be remembered for a lot of things. Angel's evolution remained an ongoing thing. I don't think for this type of character there will ever be an end to his evolution. As far as his personal journey got, it was leaps and bounds. The guy just completely came out of the shadows, opening up and becoming more vulnerable, honorable, with a better sense of himself from the people around him. The evolution was amazing. Emotionally, he evolved tenfold. And then with the show's ability to shift from the darker places to humor and back again. What a fantastic journey to be able to do that. It was great for me because it enabled me to tap into those places on different levels and expand on those four different roles, I was able to use those opportunities in other parts. I really enjoyed the flexibility of the character and how the writers allowed me to interchange with him and to move places I welcome that. It's one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much. And I thought that was really interesting because I truly do believe that the versatility that the part required of him as early on as season two is what made David Boreanas the actor that he is today. I think that he was forced to play so many different facets of angel and became so comfortable switching back and forth that it has allowed him to be the versatile actor that he is today. And I just.
Yeah, yeah. It's just kind of crazy to think about, like, all the things he had to do in his time as Angel.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: He's played so many care. He's played Angel, Angelus, Liam when he was possessed, like 35 times.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: And then the different iterations of, like, drugged angel under the influence, angel vacillating between angel and Angelus, and, yeah, angel pretending to be Angelus, but still angel. And, yeah, it just goes on and on, honestly.
James Marster says the problem with the ending was that we had no money. We had the big buildup of the monsters. Hell is opening up. All the monsters are coming. Oh, no. We only had had enough a budget for like a 2 1/2 second shot of computer generated Hellmouth opening up and all the dragons and stuff. And the only thing left to do was just dump ice water on the cast for the rest of the night and hope for the best. I think a lot of shows put into the position that Joss was put into wouldn't have even tried. They would have said it was impossible to wrap it up. It would have been just another episode. And then, surprise, surprise, we're not coming back. That does happen. But Joss was not satisfied with that and he moved heaven and earth to try to wrap it up. I'm impressed that he did as well as he did.
Yeah, it's kind of funny like, that really. Half second shot of the dragon and then everything else. Yeah, it. Then it's just focused on them. With Rain Dump. I mean, literally, visually, there is not much there, but at the same time, there's such a sense of peril. Like, it's just crazy.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: It's. It makes perfect sense. It's almost like it doesn't matter what they're fighting. They're going to fight until, like, Gun says, let's make them count the 10 minutes. Like, yeah, you take the 30,000 on the left, I'll take the 30,000 on the right.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: I just love Gun, so.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: No big deal.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: I just love him so much. I was watching this and I was.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Like, oh, this was Such a good episode.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:14] Speaker B: This was, like, who Gun is, like, to the core. Every choice that they made for this character in this episode was just, like, it was Gun.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Absolutely perfect.
[00:17:22] Speaker B: The Gun. We met in the beginning, and he's never changed. And I love that.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
And I was thinking a lot about, like, what we discussed in the last episode versus what I wanted to say about this one. And as I was watching the episode, I was kind of, like, looking for ways to make it fit thematically and for it to make, like, their decision to make sense. And I think that there was something. It kind of clicked for me. There's something really fitting about angel hastening the apocalypse. Apart from a just a big, like, fu moment to Wolfram and Hart. And also, like, a big free will statement.
But it's more than that. I think the whole. I forgot what the prophecy is called. Not the Shonshu, but the other one that says he's going to fight for the side either of good or evil. They don't know on which side.
Him saying, no, the apocalypse is going to happen now is him making sure that the timeline is on when he is on the side of good.
And there's something really compelling about the fact that he gets to say, we're having the apocalypse today, and I'm fighting for the side of good. And that means that it's on his terms. Like, that's an another layer of free will that I really, really enjoyed in this episode. And kind of, to me, made the plan make more sense. Because this is angel going.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Well.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Like, if I am such a big player, then we're gonna do this when I want it. And I'm gonna ensure that I'm fighting for the side that I want to. And I. I don't know. I just never thought about it like that before. And I was like, okay, that makes a little bit more sense to me.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: You know, that also makes sense, too, because he signs away the Shanshu in this episode.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: And I feel like.
I mean, there was a dragon on the Shanchu Scroll. There's a dragon at the end of the episode. The fact that he. If he's choosing to, like, do the fight now so that he fights on the side of good. Like, I. I personally don't think you can sign away destiny.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: That's what I was gonna say.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: I don't think it happens in the comics. Like, in the comics, it turns out that, like, Wolfram and Hart never filed. Or the Circle of the Black Thor never filed. The.
The documentation, the document so that he never signed Away.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: So funny, right?
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, prophecies don't work like that. You can't just sign away your. Like, Buffy goes, oh, shoot, I don't want to actually, like, free the Master or die. So give me the documentation. I. I'm going to write it down. Right.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Like, it doesn't work like that. And then with the perspective that you just said, it's just like, maybe the fact that he's choosing to do this, like, that's what will ultimately reward him with being human. Who knows? I don't know. Could be possible.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: Exactly. Anything's possible. That's the beauty of this. And it was actually really, really cool. As I was going through IMDb, which, by the way, IMDb has so many, like, so many things that are just, like, blatantly wrong. There was a couple that I was going through and I was like, this is not true. But. Because anyone can just add to it. But someone had just recently on IMDb, someone had put in there that in 2025, it was announced that Buffy the Vampire Slayer is going to be continued on. So, like, I forget what they said, but they're like, so. In fact, we will actually. The fate of angel and crew is going to be, like, decided. We will find out what happens. And it got me all excited. I was like, maybe that's true. Maybe we will watch them not mention anything at all. But it. They're gonna have to probably mention LA at some point.
And there was a pretty big thing that went down there.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: So I feel like they'll have to mention something. We'll have to, like, be told, especially with angel and Spike, like, those are big characters. And there's been so much talk about, like, who's gonna be in the new show. And I just can't imagine at least angel and Spike not being mentioned and, like, finding out what they're doing now. And if we're gonna find out what they're doing now, then they're gonna talk about. Not Fade away, obviously.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: 100. What happens after. But it just got me really excited when it popped up on IMDb. I was like, oh, that's right. Like, we actually are. And, like, this is no longer going to be the last episode in the Buffyverse. There's gonna be more episodes. And I don't know. Like, I know we're all cautiously optimistic because we don't know. But then it's just like, there's something exciting to be, like, canonically, we're gonna get to find out where these characters are at and what's going on. And what actually happened. And, like, I don't envy Sarah Michelle Geller and all the writers, because that's kind of a big, big thing after the events of this episode. But it just made me, like, very excited. So, yeah, I love it.
All right, let's jump into the episode. All right. We start off right where we left off in the last episode. Angels just asked everyone to vote on taking on the members of the Circle of the Blackthorn. He's like, all right, we're all agreed.
And they're like, we're going to take them all at once.
And Angel's like, well, we can't. Like, we're gonna have to basically divide and conquer. And Wesley asks, when do we make our move? And angel says, soon. In the meantime, we have to keep up the infighting. The circle needs to believe that we're coming apart at the seams. And then they ask about Illyria. And I love how Guns, like, wouldn't hate having Blue Thunder in our corner. I love that name. And then Angel's like, well, I'm not sure that she can be on our side.
Lauren mentions that she was babysitting Drogan, and Angel's like, wait, hang on. She was with Drogan? And then he informs them Rogan is dead and that he killed him. This just, like, triggers Spike all over again, which plays right into Angel's hands because he grabs Spike just as Hamilton walks in. And we realize that the spell has worn off. And so then this is angel again, acting to let. To make Hamilton believe that they're still fighting with each other.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: You know what I thought was really interesting in power play, when it pans to Hamilton, it almost seems like he saw through the glamour, and he was kind of seeing what was happening, but I guess he didn't really.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I think.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: I guess the glamour did work on him, but it was a good, like, cliffhanger. Yeah.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Yeah. But, I mean, obviously, Hamilton. I think he does suspect something is up with angel, but I don't think he saw through the glamour. I just. I'm mostly, like, confused by the fact that Angel's now choking Spike when initially beforehand, he would have been choking Lauren. So I would guess that would confuse Hamilton. He walks in. Hang on. What's going on here? But, yeah, whatever. I'm just being.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: He's not that smart.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: He's really not. He's just the muscle, truly. And I mean that with my whole heart right there. So then gun Spike and Lauren file out the door, and then he's like, hey, Wesley's your Responsibility. Make sure she doesn't get twitchy, shuts the door. And then Hamilton's like, hey, you have a problem. The Circle of the Black Thorn. They've summoned you, basically. And then we cut to Spike's basement, and now we have Spike Gun, Lauren and Wesley. And they are coming back, and it's trashed, obviously. And Illyria is, like, unconscious and bloody on the floor, floor. And they find out that Hamilton took Drogan. And Lauren, interestingly, is the person who is the most suspicious of Angel. He's, like, took him straight to his buddy Angel. I'm telling you, our fearless leader has fearlessly lost it. There is no part of this that makes any sense. We could be next. Gun's like, hang on. I don't think we're being monitored here. You can kind of drop the act. And Lauren says, I'm not playing to the crowd, Gun. I tell you, I still don't trust the man. And he was so sad because Lauren was, like, the biggest defender of angel in the last episode. Like, hang on. Before we start, like, saying things that we really don't mean or, like, that we can't come back from, let's, you know, make sure we're actually sure that this is angel and now Lauren. It's like something's been killed inside of Lauren.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Well, I think it's because Lauren has always been somebody who thinks about, like, the little people, the everyday people.
You know, even at his club, he.
He had his club. And then people would come and sing to him individually. Like, he. He is a character that forms, like, personal connections a lot. Yeah, he's very motivated by connection, Lauren.
I think that's why, like, he decides to leave after he's asked to kill Lindsay, because he's just like, this is too big picture for me, and I don't agree with that.
And he's more focused on, like, the individual people. So I think that's why he doesn't trust angel, because he sees what this will do to, like, the little people.
And I don't think he agrees with it.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: And, yeah, I agree with that. I also. I also think Lauren is really struggling, too, with the fact that he feels disconnected from the rest of the gang and that he doesn't really see much of the angel that he doesn't belong with.
[00:25:45] Speaker B: Yeah, with this group anymore.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: And I.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: And I, they don't have the same world views anymore, I don't think.
I think, like, Wesley and Gun and angel, like we said, I think it was the last episode. This is, like, very personal for them. And they're thinking big picture. But, like, people like Spike, he doesn't have any personal stakes in Wolfram and Hart. He's just there for the fight because he likes to fight. Right. And he knows that this is like, okay, this is important. I want to be a part of it. He's got a little fomo. Obviously, it's Spike. You know, he's like the king of fomo, especially when it comes to Angel.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And especially when it comes to some sort of big battle. He's like, hang on.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Right?
[00:26:25] Speaker A: He's like, you guys are brawling without me.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: He's like, I want to go out dramatically again, please.
And then Lauren is another one who I think isn't really a big picture kind of guy. He's more of a here and now kind of guy. So.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I just think it's so telling that Gun says, we don't have to trust him. We just gotta pray. The Black Circle does like that statement.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: It's so.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Unfortunately, it's so Gun. It's also so in character with where. And so aligned with where all the characters are at and with how the friendships are. And it's so sad, but it's also like. Yeah.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: Well, it reminds me of in season three when Gun says to angel, we'll never be friends, and I'll never, like, fully trust you, but that's. You're where the mission is, and that's where I want to be. And I think that is still true with Gun.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: It's just so crazy to me that the show for two seasons was really, like, trying to shove this. We're a family down our throats. Yeah. And this season, you can tell they really just were not, like, we're gonna move away from that. And they really moved away from that. Like, here we are in the season finale, and I'm like, these people are not a family.
These people. I don't know that they like each other.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Honestly, I think the whole thing is that they were together because of the mission, because it gave all of them purpose.
But as soon as the mission started to get corrupted, so did all of the relationships.
[00:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: You know, which is, like. Not to say. I'll say something controversial, but, like, in comparison to the Scoobies, I feel like the Scoobies are more of, like, a family where.
[00:28:05] Speaker A: Which is.
[00:28:06] Speaker B: They didn't have to.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: Seven is saying something, but.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Yeah, something. Because they're. They're very. They're also very fractured, but I think they're more of, like, a dysfunctional family. But at the end of the day if they don't have to fight evil together. Like, I still think that they would be in each other's lives because they genuinely care about each other. They grew up together. Right. They have that, like, unbreakable bond that no matter what happens between them, they'll always have each other's back.
But I feel like with Team Angel, I think it's because they also met each other when a lot of them were older. Like, this show has always been more adult.
So it's those relationships where, like, you meet somebody in your adult life and it. They fit in your life, but then your life changes again and then you kind of distance yourself from those people.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: They also really hurt each other, too. Like, there was some big things that happened that.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: And then they just stuck around each other because they were work buddies.
And then now we're to the point where the place of work is being dissolved, people are dying, and it's like. Like, hang on. We actually don't have much of anything in common. Like, worldviews are massively shifting here, too. Angel's suddenly becoming this big picture guy, and that's not how he's been for the majority of the show. That's not what the premise was like. Doyle was very much, we helped the helpless. We focus on the individual. And I. This finale, it does kind of put the focus back on the individual in some ways. But that's not angel doing that. It seems to be other characters and other people. But angel seems to have moved past that, which is very interesting. Interesting. Which we'll discuss in a second. But, yeah. So now we're in the secret chambers of the Circle of the Blackthorn. We see that all the members chanting. And Sebastus is drinking a blue liquid from a champagne flute. He tells angel that the Circle does not abide secrets. Angel's like. Which is interesting for a secret society. Sebastus is like, remember your place. Vampire claps quickly for his little Timothy Chalamet look, look alike to come over, shuffle over and give him some more weird blue Gatorade. And Angel's like, my place is in the circle. And Sebastus talks about how he's like, your friends this morning, insurrection did not go unnoticed. They tried to kill you. An embarrassing affront, to say the least. Vale comes in and says that this is a stepping stone to disaster. You should not be burned. Burdened with this kind of. And then all of a sudden, he starts gasping. And the little like Twink had stepped on. He's blindfolded. He'd Say, stepped and tripped over Veil's tubes and fails. Like, Sebastis, your man servant has become tangled in my bodily fluids again. He's like, get your toddler. Whoa, whoa.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Man servant?
Nobody told us he was a man. Calm down.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: Yeah, excuse you for assuming his gender here. And then angel leans forward and pushes the slave away. We hear eep. It's like, the funniest thing ever. And then Angel's like, my people are the problem.
And then they talk about how Mr. Windham Price seems intriguingly unstable. I can't disagree with that. Yeah, he really does.
The senators, like, Mr. Gunn, on the other hand, does not. Which is a pity. He had so much potential. They're like, he's not our greatest concern. In fact, you are Angels. Like, if the next words out of your mouth are, kill Spike, we just might have to kiss. I was like, dang, dude.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Angel's been wanting to kiss a man this entire season.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: Just quite an escalation. There's so much homoeroticism in this season in particular, it's actually nuts. And for a minute there, I thought I was maybe reading into some things, but all the reviews and stuff I was reading were like, no, we're seeing it, too. And I'm like, yeah, it really is subtext, honestly.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: Well, I think it's because Joss Whedon is more involved this season. And I remember I was looking to post something on Instagram from the DVD commentary, and Joss Whedon was talking about the girl in question. He's just like, I gave you guys the best couple in this episode, and it's angel and Spike. They are the couple.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: No. And I saw, like, there's a. There's a interview by David Fury who says this season was about Spike and Angel as a couple. Like, the love story is Spike and Angel.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: It is the love story. One million.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: And I. I totally see that. And you know what? They have great chemistry, and I enjoyed it, so it was entertaining.
Yeah.
So Sebastian's is like, spike's not the threat you are. You've proven your loyalty to the circle. But there's something stronger than loyalty.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Hope.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: And I thought that was so interesting because, like, yes, this is sad that angel supposedly signs away his prophecy, his ownership to the prophecy, which doesn't make sense, but whatever.
And it sucks. But I also think that this moment is what gives angel the idea to send his people off to spend their one last day in the world. It's kind of a reminder of all that they're fighting for. He wants them to go out and fight, find that purpose, find that meaning, find that hope.
And they do go out, and a lot of them go out and find the little guy or they find their purpose. And it's interesting. I'll read a quote later. Later on, by reading angel, that was talking about how in going out, they kind of find their identities that they've lost over the past couple of seasons and their otherness and how we start having more themes about the city and helping the helpless and all that stuff. In the last little piece of all that, was everybody embracing their otherness again? Because they've become, over the past couple of seasons, they just kind of want Amorphous blob.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: And. And how it was so cool that they all go and unite to save the city again. And they're using their individual skills and the things that make them unique, and that's ultimately what is what makes them strong. And I was like, oh. And that's the thing I was telling you before this. I was like, I just so enjoyed this episode for. For the fact that it was a true ensemble episode. Like, yeah, I just. That's something I've really, really been let down with this series, is that it started out a bit that way. It never fully was, but there were glimpses here and there, and then it lost it along the way. And I think that this show had the potential, with some amazing characters and actors, to really do more with its characters.
And it just dropped the ball in a lot of ways. And so this episode was a little bittersweet because it was like, there's so much more they could have done with Gun. There is so much more, obviously, with Fred and Illyria and that whole thing. And.
Yeah, I don't know. I'm just ranting now, but you get it.
All right. So Izzy is the red demon that angel played racquetball, I think, with pulls out the document, the Sean Shu prophecy. They're like, this is the original. That the vampire with a soul will pay up, play a pivotal role in the apocalypse, and as a reward, will become human. They're like, a paranoid person might think you're trying to manipulate us in an attempt to fulfill this prophecy. Angel's like, I have no desire to become humans, to become human. And I was like, I don't believe you. I don't believe you. Especially after the next. Next scene.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: He's sitting like, you really mean it.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Angel, world's best actor, but not to wet. Seriously. So then he signs away his pesky future, removing any opportunity that he will ever earn. His once precious humanity. And Izzy, like, stabs. I love the hand. You love that he signs it away. Who are you?
[00:35:27] Speaker B: I. I love.
[00:35:29] Speaker A: Like, I love Willie. Leia loves that he signs away his Shonshu. She loves the fact that, you know, it's ambiguous and he might have died. Who is. Listen to me.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Listen to me.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: So last episode, we're separating our podcast friendship. I'm just separating each other now.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: No, I just. I just think it makes so much sense. Like, angel has sacrificed so much over and over again, so this is very much in character.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Of course he would sacrifice this.
[00:35:59] Speaker B: He was never going to hesitate, and he was always going to sign this away, because I think no matter how much he wants it, angel is a character that always sacrifices his personal.
Or at least he was for a very long time and then he wasn't for a few seasons.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So this is kind of nice.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Ultimately, like, the very core of him is that he is willing to sacrifice his personal happiness if it means that he can do some good. You know, like, angel would jump in front of a bus for a stranger, and I think that's, like, true to who he is. And this is just another example of that. Obviously, logistically speaking, I refuse to believe that you can sign away destiny. Like, that's not true. But he doesn't know that. He's under the impression that he's just given up his chance to be human.
And I think that makes complete sense for Angel. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: That's true. I'll never forget.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: This was the best thing. Like, the circle of the Black Thorn knew what they were doing when they put this in front of him, because this is, like, the thing that he's wanted for so long, and he. He world's best actor.
[00:37:12] Speaker A: It also just goes to show that Angel's doing this for the right reasons at the end of the day, which I think is a huge clue as to why angel has Lindsay killed at the very end. I think this episode actually gives us. Because a lot of people really wrestle with, why did angel do that? Why did Lindsay have to die? And I think this episode does a. A very. Like, a fairly good job of making it pretty clear why Lindsay has to die, even though it's, you know, somewhat ambiguous. But, yeah, because Lindsay would not have made the same choice like this. Like, him talking about, like, it's almost like a fairy tale. Meanwhile, Angel's over here signing away his perfect happiness and his hope.
Yeah. If. If Lindsay had all hope taken away from him, he wouldn't be making these same calls, he'd be making selfish decisions. No.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: Lindsay is a corrupt person. And he's proven time and time again that he is really easily manipulated and corrupt when there's, like, power in front of him.
And he was always good. He was always going to circle back to that no matter what.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: Yeah. He's motivated by personal vendetta as well.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And self preservation and power.
Yeah.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: He's like Darla.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Well, yeah, he absolutely is. There's a reason why he was attracted to her.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: So then in Angel's office, immediately after. I just love how, like, the show just, like, it's just so sad and it undercuts it. He's in his office just, like, sitting under the sun. It's so, like, sad. Harmony comes in and she's like, angel, just wondering where everybody is. And he's like, you ever miss it? You returned, what, five years ago?
And I'm like, oh, he does want to be human. And also, like, I know you think that this is, like, erasure of I will remember you right now. Yeah. But I. I think this is a nod to I will remember you because. What is it that Harmony says that she remembers her heart thump, thump the way it would thump when I kissed a really hot boy for the first time.
[00:39:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:39:15] Speaker A: Like, him holding his heart when he had that dream about Spike getting the Shonshu earlier this season. The music that played right then. I think that he remembers.
I think he just wants someone to commiserate with. But it's probably also too, like, it's a fake out for Harmony. But I. I do think that there are some, like, subtle nods, too. I will remember you here.
And I think that he is kind of thinking about that in this moment, but.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but still, he didn't have to be like, I don't even remember what it was like to be human. Like, angel, the best day of your life happened five years ago.
Shut the hell up.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Maybe. Maybe it's just supposed to be a subtle. Like, it was so long ago, like, so much has happened that it's hard for him to even remember that. And that was such a short time, too, in the long existence he's had as a vampire. And he had that one day. Like, it just feels like I feel like I will remember you happened a very long time ago.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Yeah. But, man, that day should be burned into his brain, tattooed on his brain.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: That is true. I will give you that.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: And they did such a good job with Harmony in this moment. She's like, everybody's in on it, except me. And he's like, you're not a part of this. And she's like, I could be. I'm your assistant, after all. I could, I don't know, assist you or something. And then he's like, all right, Hamilton. He's like, I need you to watch him. I. And. Or. And keep him out of things. He's like, I need to pay a. A visit to Archduke Sebastus, and I want you to watch him and distract him. I don't care how. Throw some punches at him, some files. Just keep him busy for as long as you can. She asks, what are you going to do now? And he goes, one more thing. I don't want to.
So then he goes and meets with Lindsay. And I think, again, subtle clues. Subtle clues. And I think this moment is angel testing the waters with Lindsay. I. I personally feel like this is him giving him one last shot to kind of, like, prove to himself that angel doesn't have to kill him. And I think Lindsay failed the test in this moment.
And I think Angel.
Angel was sad about what it could have been. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, right?
[00:41:29] Speaker B: That was his first, like, boo on this show.
[00:41:32] Speaker A: His first boo.
[00:41:34] Speaker B: His first enemy boo.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: His first not frenemy, Lenomy. Lovers to enemy. Enemy lovers.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: No, enemies to enemies. But it's kind of, like, homoerotic a little bit.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: His first anemone.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
Yes.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: Thank you. All right. So angel is meeting with Lindsay. They're in the conference room, and Lindsay's like, you got to be joking.
Why would I trust you or you me? Angel says, because it's not about us. It's about them. The wolf, the ram, the heart. The ones we've been fighting against forever. Lindsay says, you can't beat them. Angel says, maybe they're not there to be. Maybe they're there to be fought. Maybe fighting them is what makes human beings so remarkably strong. Lindsay says, you're not talking about the kind of strength that human beings have. This is not about coveting your neighbor's ass, your buddy's job, the last Mallemore Malamar in the box. You're talking about fighting flesh. And something that passes is for blood demons with enormous power, and they will mow you down. Angel, maybe. And then he's basically, you know, having. Giving Lindsay a great grand speech and talking about how, you know, he used to be really bad, too, that there's. Oh, and I love this line. He says, there's always going to be power and there's always going to be Corruption. And part of that is Lindsay. And it's interesting that we talked about needing someone who can take Angels place in the last episode, and it's interesting that they set that up for Lindsay. But Angel's like, nope. Like, I'd rather no one do that. And almost like. Almost like it's better if an absolutely corrupt person takes that place, because I don't know if any person can truly straddle that line without becoming incredibly corrupt.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Like, yeah, for sure.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
So he says that Lindsay's good in a fight, and then he says, we tear up this firm, someone's gonna have to step in. I know that's what you want now. I'm a lot more comfortable thought of you in that position than anyone else. The devil. You know. Lindsay's like, well, what if you die in, like. What if you turn into the vampire and it becoming bad? And angel says, you'll talk your way out of it. You'll tell them I force you to help me tell them I made my scary face. Lindsay says, believe it or not, I was actually talking about you. You don't care about being squashed like a bug. Angel says, you haven't heard a word I've said for, like, years back.
Lindsay says, well, you got a little speechy. All right. This is totally. This is totally you and my sisters in the podcast just tuning out. And it's all right. You're like, well, you gotta listen. All right?
[00:44:03] Speaker B: I don't tune out. I listen.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: You do actually listen better than my sisters do.
[00:44:07] Speaker B: It also helps that I edit our episodes, so I. I get to hear you say the same things twice usually.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: I'm so sorry.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: No, it's good. I learned so much.
Yes.
I love it.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Cut that down.
Lindsay's like, I got the Cliff Notes. Honor and humanity. Absolute good. I heard it. So here's the plot twist. I'm in, which is so funny. It's a little callback to Blind Date, when Angel, like, pretended to snooze off when Lindsay came to him.
And Lindsay's like, everybody goes on about your soul. Vampire with a soul. Nobody ever mentions the fact that you're really a vampire with big brass testes. This is gonna be a circus. I mean, win or loss or lose, you're about to pick the nastiest fight. Basically, I want to do that. I want to be part of the fight. If you want me, I'm on your team. And again, I want you to test for Lindsay. He's like, I want you, Lindsay. And he's like, I'm Thinking about rephrasing that Lindsay's like, yeah, I think I'd be more comfortable if you did lies.
But at the end of the day, there are so many parallels. And we talked about this in the beginning of the show. There's so many parallels between angel and Lindsay and it's, it's interesting that angel would have Lindsay killed as he's planning on dying himself. Almost like this idea of like, we need somebody else maybe to start over.
But I also think that Lindsay has ultimately always been self serving and that's the big reason angel has him killed. Like, at the end of the day, angel is flawed, but we see that angel still cares about helping people. And Lindsay, there's no, there's absolutely no implication that that's what Lindsay wants to do.
Like none. It's all self serving. It's all about himself and it's about power.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: I think the times that he does show an ounce of like, selflessness, I guess I put in like heavy quotation marks.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: Right. He's thinking about something else beside himself.
[00:46:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's because he is so desperate to impress angel and to like with him and to be like on his level that he does things that he thinks angel is going to be impressed by or like, like angel, like. I think that's what it is at the end of the day.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, look at his last words. It's not, oh my gosh, I could do so much blah, blah. It's like, no, Angel, I'm, you know, it. And Lindsay has built it up in his head that he and angel are mortal enemies and they're on the same page. And this entire episode just proves that angel has barely a thought for him. Yeah, like, period, bigger fish to fry. Yep, he's got Spike now. Sorry, Lindsay.
[00:46:44] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: There's. Where is it? Reading angel has. I actually have so many quotes and I will try to like cut them down and stuff because I read things like, oh, this is really interesting.
Okay, so in reading angel, they had a really interesting conversation about Lindsay and about this choice and stuff. And they talked about how.
Where is it says, oh, Lindsay. His pride is affronted by the senior partner's deceit in the matter of the hand and by the competitive games he is forced to play with Lila Morgan in Dead End. It was redemption without all that much in the way of repentance, penance, or even a firm purpose of amendment. It was by some criteria, no redemption at all. At the end of season two with Lindsay's arc, one of the reasons for the startling revelation that Lindsay is the secret manipulator behind Spike's resurrection, Eve's betrayal is, of course, that Lindsay has this conflict, his complicated backstory of rivalry with Angel. Another is that Christian Kane, who plays him, was a popular favorite and not a star, having largely abandoned acting for a while to pursue his musical career. Certainly the reappearance of an iconic figure from the show's past was an economic and possibly a cheap way of broad brushing in a nemesis for a while at least. It is unclear whether Lindsay is good or evil. His structural status as the season's little bad does not automatically determine which side he is on, though his attempts to kill angel offer a clue. Perhaps he is responsible for Spike's resurrection to ensure that should he kill angel, there will still be a vampire with a soul around to fulfill the Shonshu prophecy. His attempts on Angel's life after the apparent resurrection of Cordelia, and his attempt to have Spike preempt any message she brings from the powers by telling Spike she is still evil, clearly indicates that he is not, as hinted, working for good. So anyway, they just kind of like talk about how the show doesn't do a super great job this season of really clarifying Lindsay's intentions, and it is kind of clunky and stuff, but they talk about how it's ambiguous to the end, partly because he never gets loaded with expository material and partly because the writers never, I suggest, sat down clearly to work out what his motivation is or why it is necessary that angel commission his execution by Lauren. In Power Play, it becomes apparent that Lindsay is very well informed indeed about the circle of the Blackthorn and how one goes about joining it. His actions throughout the season make most sense on the assumption that this was his intention. One of the requirements appears to be that one kill someone close to one to demonstrate ruthlessness. So basically he has to kill angel. And like all the stuff that we know about. But they talked about how the implication is that Lindsay is trying to buy his way into the circle by killing angel, and they say accordingly. The last interview between him and angel, in which, on the surface of things, angel recruits him both as lieutenant in the assassination of the circle and as a successor in the struggle should things go wrong, crystallizes Angel's decision to have him killed, not because of anything Lindsay says, but because of what he does not. In this reading, Angel's slip of the tongue reference to the erotic subtext between them is more than a sop to the fans. This conversation can be read as Angel Knowingly giving Lindsay an opportunity to come clean about what he planned and why Angel's death would not have been a sacrifice for him. Significantly, neither Lindsay nor his lover Eve tell each other the truth. During their last encounter, she fails to admit to him that she had magically induced sex with angel and allows him to believe that she is the one thing in his life angel never touched. And he never explains to the woman who gave up immortality for him why this should matter. In Lindsay's head, the huge drama is between him and angel, which is why angel commissions Lauren, a being Lindsay sees as his inferior, to kill Lindsay once he has served his turn. Lindsay's last words are of his affront that it should be Lauren who kills him and not Angel.
Then they go on to other things. But I just always thought is very, very fascinating and interesting that the.
As the viewer, if you're paying really close attention, you know that this is a suicide mission for Angel. So when he's telling Lindsay, hey, I want you to be the successor in case I don't make it back. But there's also, like, hey, I might come back. I don't. Like, he's. He's. He's saying to Lindsay that he's thinking he might come back, but what we see him talking about with the team is, I'm not planning on coming back from this. So, like, that should be a huge clue right there that he's not being 100 honest. And then that he is testing Lindsay. And then later on when Lindsay talks with Eve, it's so fascinating. The whole, like, it's supposed to kind of play out the same as it did in season two with Darla, angel, and Lindsay.
[00:51:06] Speaker B: Right.
[00:51:07] Speaker A: And yet again, like, angel did actually have sex with Eve, and she's not telling him. I don't know. It's just very fascinating. Like, there's so much they could. More. They could have done it. But, like, the stuff that they give us is still interesting enough on its own. But, yeah, fascinating.
All right, so now in Spike's apartment, Wesley, Spike, and Gun are standing in a circle talking while Lauren sits in a chair in the corner watching Illyria. She's not doing super great. Wesley's like, she needs more care than I can provide. Watch her. I'm gonna go get some supplies from home. And then Spike's like, well, that's not going to do much if Hamilton decides to come in. Angel walks in and is like, well, Hamilton did this. And they're like, you didn't know? And he's like, well, he brought Drogan. But that's about all I knew. And then Lauren, again, is like, say, any other tips on how to be a hero we could share with the boys and girls at home? Like, again, I think. I think Lauren is a little bit disturbed by the things that angel is.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: Doing, you know, 100%.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: The fact that he killed someone that was supposed to be his friend, which. Yeah.
[00:52:04] Speaker B: And it's actually so funny because we know that Lauren can, like, see somebody's future, I guess, when he reads them. And he never saw this, like, ever. Maybe that's. We don't disturb how much of his.
[00:52:17] Speaker A: Future he sees, too, you know?
[00:52:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But I wonder if that, like, plays a part into why he's so disturbed. Like, he just is, like, wow, I never saw this coming.
And I should have. Why didn't I see this coming?
This is not the angel that I know. Yeah, perhaps.
[00:52:33] Speaker A: And then I just think about the fact that he read Lindsay, too. Did he know that this was what Lindsay was gonna. I mean, it's implied that he knows that Lindsay's not all that good of a guy. Like, he's already heard him sing before.
Yeah.
Then Gun's kind of like, hey, we know that you didn't have a choice, but we want to know if, like, they're going to want any of us for collateral damage.
And Angel's like, no, they won't. We're killing them all tonight. And then he's like, I want you all to do something for me, for yourselves. Take the day off. And they're all, like, looking him like he's sprouted two heads. They're like, why in the world would you want us to do that? If we're going to have this massive fight tonight, don't you want us to kind of be prepping for that? Angel says, we'll be ready, but today, I want you guys to go out live, do whatever you want.
And then we cut to Caritas, and then Lauren.
[00:53:19] Speaker B: I know Lauren.
[00:53:20] Speaker A: Goes up to take his place on the stage as we hear angel voiceover saying, live the day like it's your last, because it probably is. Lauren sings If I ruled the world Every day would be the first day of spring Every heart would have a new song to sing and we'd sing that the joy every morning would bring.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: Oh, my God, I'm gonna cry.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: Yeah. This is where I start to kind of get really sad. In a coffee shop, angel goes and meets with Connor, very famous.
In a bar. We see Spike, you know, taking a bunch of shots, trying to drown himself In Liquid Courage, we think, oh, my gosh, he's going to start a brawl. Because, like, you know, that's what Spike does.
And then we cut to East Hills Teen Center. We see Ann up a truck with boxes and furniture and Gun. Gun decides to take his day of living life to go and help Anne. And I just see it. It seems like this. Like, why didn't we have more of this? Like, come on. We had these characters, like, oh, just get so.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: I loved. I loved the scene so much. This is. This scene, like, encompassed the entire show for me.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: I think it's the heart and it made so much episode.
[00:54:37] Speaker B: I think that it was Gun. I was so impressed with everything they did with Gun in this episode. And I don't remember feeling that way before. And I think it's because we're obviously, like, watching this more closely now. And Gun is, like, one of my favorite characters on the show. And I was just like, this is amazing. Like, this makes so much sense. I love that they bring back Anne. I love that it's like a nod to Buffy.
[00:55:03] Speaker A: Yeah, the Buffy stand in is what you called her.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah, she is the Buffy stand in. And I love that she, like, makes a comeback. And I love that Gun goes and, like, does the thing that he did in season one. This is the Gun. Like, he hasn't changed, you know, because I think we've been saying for a few seasons now, like, Gun is kind of lost. He's not. He doesn't really believe in the mission anymore, really. And he's, like, disillusioned. But at the end of the day, no, like, he's still Gunned. And I just. I love that this is how they show it, because it just. It's perfect.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I just. I can't get over the fact that this part.
So we, like, we always reference. And we talked about it last episode, we always reference the if nothing we do matters, that all that matters is what we do speech. And I think the end of this episode pretty much encapsulates that. But the part that this. This.
That we were really frustrated with last episode, that we felt like they were missing was the smallest act of kindness is the most powerful thing in the world. And this moment right here is. Is the heart of that.
Like Anne saying, yeah, we just keep on keeping on. But why do we do that? Why. Why are we keeping on? Because we are going to continue to show kindness to people, and we are hoping to continue that cycle of the goodness to impact the world. And Anne is the best character to represent that, because that started with Buffy, and Buffy affected Angel, Buffy affected Anne and impacted Angel, Anne impacted Gun and impacted, like, all these people. And it's a trickle effect. And we see how here we are on a huge scale. Angel has saved so many people, saved the world so many times, and so has Gun.
And it's because of. Of Buffy. It all started with Buffy. And Buffy had people before her, and, like, it just keeps going. And I think that that is one of the most beautiful pictures of the smallest act of kindness being so, so powerful. And that was. That was what the episode last time was missing. And I think that's what makes this episode a little bit more cathartic, I think, for me, for sure.
Yeah. So he's like, what if I told you it doesn't help? What would you do if he found out that none of it mattered? That it's all controlled by forces more powerful and uncaring than we can conceive, and that they will never let it get better down here? What would you do? She says, I'd get this truck packed before the new stuff gets here. Want to give me a hand? And he goes, I do. And then they both just load the couch in.
[00:57:30] Speaker B: And I think this is also. I love that question that Gun asks. And I think it makes so much sense that he, like, not to get all fucking political, because right now, the world.
[00:57:39] Speaker A: I was actually thinking that too, but go ahead. Yeah.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: I love that he ends up going to the senator's office, because I feel like a lot of us right now in the world are asking ourselves that question. What can we do that Gun asks Anne about? How does it. Does anything that we do really matters when these, like, greater powers are controlling everything? And, like, you know what I mean? And I think it's so relevant in today's political climate.
And I just. I love that he ends up going to fight the senator, because that's the correlation there, too. Like, our politicians oftentimes are controlling aspects of our lives that, like, we feel like we can't control. But at the end of the day, like, you go out and you. You can. You can vote for who represents you. You know what I mean? Again, I don't want to really get political, whatever, but I just thought that was a really, like, cool tie in with the fact that he goes to fight the senator.
[00:58:36] Speaker A: Oh, 100%.
And I. I constantly. I think it is such a battle today with our access to social media and to the news, and we are more connected to every part of the world than we ever have before, and our anxiety and our stress and everything is so much higher. And, like, there's, like, it's good to be informed, but then I think there's also a level where we're not meant to be able to see into the lives of people that we cannot impact and really do much of anything about. And, like, it creates a sense of powerlessness. And then we often end up freezing in our fear and doing nothing because we're like. It just feels so big and out of reach. And I think sometimes I have to remind myself to break it down and go, who am I responsible for and what. What can I control? And it's like, obviously, first and foremost, your family, but then my neighbors, how can I impact and help them? My friends and the people around me, my community. These are all things you can do. And it's a ripple effect. And if everybody does that, then that's going to start impacting and affecting everybody. And I think it was something that, like, I had a conversation with my husband about because, like, protests, like, for no Kings Day were happening this past Saturday. And, like, we went out and I remember, like, talking with him, and just, like, both of us were like, man, like, protesting sometimes feels like it's not going to do much of anything. And Andrew had the really great perspective, and he was like, protesting is not necessarily all about making a statement towards your representatives and your senators and all that stuff, which it is. But he's like, more than anything, it's supposed to be an encouragement for you to go out and look around and see how many people are in solidarity and how many people also agree with you. And what that does is it emboldens us and encourages us that we're not alone. And it empowers us to get out and do it again and actually make, like, more waves and do more stuff. And I was like, that is such a good perspective. I'd never thought of that before. And so, like, I think gun going out and seeing Ann be like, well, I'm just gonna load the couch. And him going, oh, I can do that. I can load a couch. Like, it. Suddenly the world doesn't seem so big anymore and so overwhelming. And it's really interesting, critically touched, because of course, had this fantastic view on Gun Story. They said Gun Story, these past two seasons has been about trying to transcend his roots, only to realize that in doing so, he's lost himself since Shells. He's been trying to find his way back. So it's great to see him do so through helping Anne and her shelter one more time. And herself, meanwhile, is one of the more. More fascinating side characters in Whedon's worlds, and one of the few who, like angel, appeared on both shows. Here she gets to voice the other answer to the question Power Play asks and demonstrate the alternative to angel suicidal blaze of glory strike. When he says, you know, what do I do? And she says, I just get the truck packed. Anne's answer is less expansive than Angel's statement about kindness back in Epiphany. It's more pithy and down to earth. This makes sense. Anne has actually been living her philosophy, while angel has always been more comfortable fighting evil, regardless of his claims. Back in season two, I suspect she may well have made more of a difference than all of Angels back alley crusading ever did, discounting averted demonic apocalypses and the like. Gun, looking back at the events of the past few years, probably came to similar conclusions about his own role. Again, Gun's fight against the Senator and her hench vampires isn't really important. What matters is that we know why he's standing there facing down those impossible odds. This season, he's fallen deeper and struggled harder than ever before. But in his final days, he's found his way back home.
I'm getting all emotional.
[01:02:08] Speaker B: It's like the end, literally, finally.
[01:02:11] Speaker A: Oh, no, I love it. But also, like, oh, so I just.
[01:02:15] Speaker B: Love this character so you so much. He's just such a great character.
[01:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And I love that. I'd never thought about Anne's response being kind of like the opposite of what Angel's doing. And I think. I think the more I think about it, the more I'm like, oh, everybody's fighting evil and fighting the good fight in their own way. Maybe Angel's way isn't the best way, but there's other people like Anne who are also fighting it as well. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:02:42] Speaker B: Well, I think the thing.
[01:02:43] Speaker A: The.
[01:02:43] Speaker B: The key thing is that, like, angel helps people by making sure that they're safe from, like, the supernatural world. And I. I always go back to, like. I think it was the harsh light of. No, what's the episode after the harsh light of day with the gem of Amara.
[01:03:03] Speaker A: In the dark.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: In the dark.
[01:03:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:03:06] Speaker B: And I remember the conversation that he had with Doyle on the rooftop about how the world is designed for, like, people in the daytime and.
[01:03:16] Speaker A: Yes. And he needs to be the one in the dark.
[01:03:18] Speaker B: And he needs to be the one in the dark to help with the, you know, the creepy crawlies that crawl around in the dark. And I Think that's. That's kind of what it is. Like, Ann is the person that's in the daytime, that's in the human world, and that's how she helps people. But I think angel helps people in a different way.
[01:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
[01:03:38] Speaker B: You know, I like that.
[01:03:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. And that makes his plan a little bit different because it's like, of course Angel's not gonna do the exact same thing as Anne because that's not his role. Like, his role is to do something different. Totally. Yeah.
[01:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:03:51] Speaker A: So Wesley is still in Spike's basement, coming up with some sort of, like, paste to put on Illyria's neck and stuff.
And she's like, I don't. Yeah, he's making paper mache.
[01:04:03] Speaker B: He's gonna mummify her. Okay.
[01:04:05] Speaker A: He's, like, preserving. He's like, well, how about you stay here and just.
[01:04:11] Speaker B: He's preserving her.
[01:04:12] Speaker A: Yeah, he's preserving her. He's like, you know, I may not make it, but you will.
Fred's effigy must last for all time.
[01:04:20] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:04:21] Speaker A: She's like, that's so dark.
She's like. She's like, I don't understand. Like, you could go out and you could be having, you know, your perfect day or whatever.
And she's like, tonight you might all be dead. And he's like, yes, good point. She's like, I am not what you want. And he says, no. And she says, then why? And he says, don't I go off and have one last perfect day, Smell the flowers or skydive or have a go with Mistress Spanx a lot. I was like, wesley, is this something that we do frequently? Like, what in the world, or whatever hell, the hell one is supposed to do in this situation? O' Leary, of course, fixates on Mistress who. She's all jealous. Wesley's like, there is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset or painting or finely aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any. There is nothing that I want.
And this is such a sad callback to. To Sean Shanshu in la, where he's disturbed by the fact that angel is taking the news of his death being prophesied and not really acting very big with it, like, not having big emotions. And Cordelia's like, like, angels. Cool. And Wesley says, angels cut off. Death doesn't bother him because there's nothing in life he wants. It's our desires that make us human. And now he's talking about how there's nothing he wants that's so bleak and so sad.
[01:05:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And I kept trying to think, like, what. What could have Wesley done?
Like, genuinely nothing. He doesn't have any human connections.
He doesn't.
[01:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Have any Touched points out that he almost becomes, like, a Watcher in this situation. Like, he reverts back to his roots of being a watcher by, like, being with Illyria and kind of, like, talking to her and showing her the world and not helping her, Like. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense. He's just falling back on what he knows. Yeah.
Yep. And then Illyria's like, well, I could assume Fred's shape make her come alive again. This one's for you. But you would never ask me to. Nieces, the first lesson a watcher learns is to separate truth from illusion. Because in the world of magics, it's the hardest thing to do. The truth is that Fred is gone. To pretend anything else would be a lion. Since I don't actually intend to die today, and I. I won't accept a lie. Is it better? She says, it's better. And then in the bar, Spike is on a stool in a stage, and he's. There's, like, a sign that says poetry Slam behind.
[01:06:36] Speaker B: I love it.
[01:06:37] Speaker A: And he's holding a glass of whiskey in his fingertips. And we hear the poem. He says, my soul is wrapped in harsh repose. Midnight descends in raven color clothes. But soft behold the sunlight beam cutting a swath of glimmering gleam. My heart expands. Tis grown a bulge in it. In the. Inspired by your beauty. Effulgent and effulgent. You're a man. Yeah.
Everyone just, like, starts clapping. He receives a standing ovation. You can see Spike, like, just, like, inner.
[01:07:05] Speaker B: William is healing.
[01:07:06] Speaker A: And he goes, thank you. That was for Cecily. All right, the next one's called the Wanton Folly of Me.
[01:07:11] Speaker B: Mom, I love it.
[01:07:13] Speaker A: I want to hear it. I want to hear it. It's so. It's such a wonderful full character moment for Spike. And you know what you and I were saying. Spike has won us over this season and how he has become genuinely so fun and enjoyable to watch. And I have appreciated him in a way I have not been able to over on Buffy.
[01:07:35] Speaker B: And you were really in the trenches with him in season seven. Like, I remember when we first started this season, you were just like, I can't talk about Spike anymore.
[01:07:43] Speaker A: I just came out of season anymore. I was just like, get him off of my screen. But this season just really was so yeah, it was just refreshing. And. And you and I were both like, is Spike at some points, is he our favorite character this season? Like, there were times that it was like, he's the only person I want to see on the screen right now. And that is really weird coming from us.
[01:08:06] Speaker B: I know. I think the thing with Spike, at least for me, I mean, I. I have a really hard time with him when the whole Spuffy thing is happening, because I just think. I just feel like it's like a noose on the show's neck and around Buffy's neck. It's just so suffocating. It's like a black hole that just sucks everything out of the show because it just takes up so much narrative space in the last two seasons, especially in season seven. And I just feel like rewatching season five and honestly, just seeing how great of a fucking character he is, it reminds me of how great he is in season two and how great he is in season four of Buffy. And, like. Like, he is a really interesting character.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: He really is. Yeah.
[01:08:50] Speaker B: And I may not have liked his entire journey to, like, get here with the soul, but absolutely, he's become one of my favorite characters. 100%.
[01:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Critically touched. Talked about how it says a lot about him that it's his choice for his last day on Earth to make peace with the human existence, with being that bloody awful poet he loathed so much that he embraced vampirism to escape it.
And talking about his progression this season has been all about acceptance and how he's kind of had to accept that part of himself. Like, we know a lot of his putting on that Persona was posturing because he was insecure with himself. And it's so wonderful to see him. Like, the way that he's saying the poem is. And his eyes are closed. He's not looking at the audience. This. This wasn't necessarily for other people. This was for himself. But the fact that people resonated with it, and they resonated with it because Spike was being authentic.
[01:09:50] Speaker B: It. Yes, that's so true.
[01:09:52] Speaker A: Allowed him to. It allowed him to be like. It boosted his confidence in an authentic and in a healthy way. And in doing so, he's. He is also letting go of these women, too. He's, like, going through Cecily, then he goes through his mom. I bet you there's a poem about Drusilla and probably Buffy as well. As he's going through and letting go of these women, he's able to move forward and make peace with himself. And I Just. That is just beautiful. That's poetry.
[01:10:14] Speaker B: Listen, in the continuation, I want to see Spike with some new girl that he meets as, like, the evolved version of himself, healthier version of himself. Perhaps another slayer. Because we know there's a bunch of slayers out there, you know, or somebody who's not a slayer, whatever. But, yeah, I just think he needs to have, like, a healthy, non obsessive relationship with a woman that he's never met before.
[01:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah, right. One that he hasn't tried to kill would be preferable as well.
[01:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's start fresh, you know, get on some dating apps. Spiky.
[01:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah. You guys heard it? Heard it first. Leia is totally okay with Spikes in the continuation, and that's not something I ever thought I'd hear, so. Yeah, growth for you as well.
[01:11:05] Speaker B: I know. He's one. Like, he's won us over this season.
[01:11:10] Speaker A: To think that we started out the whole series being, like, we shall not speak.
[01:11:14] Speaker B: Yeah. We're like, we can't talk about Spike because we're going to crash the fuck out and people are going to now hear, like, hits on us for our lives and our families and, like.
[01:11:24] Speaker A: And this is for those, like, everyone who's listened to me over on Becoming Buffy for the past last five years. Like, I genuinely. I keep saying it and no one had believed me, but I. I don't hate Spike. I actually really enjoy Spike. It's just. It's rare to see him when he's not in a codependent relationship with Buffy and sucking the whole show into a black hole, you know? So I say this as we are getting to lies my parents told me. Oh, no, that's okay. I've already recorded it. I just have to, like, release it and deal with all the discourse. But it is what it is. And I'm so happy this season came after all of that, because it's so nice to end on a high note with him. Because I want to love all the characters. I don't want to hate a character, you know? Like, that's not fun for me either.
[01:12:09] Speaker B: I agree.
I want to live.
Specifically, I want to love Spike. I've always wanted to, and I used to, but then there was just.
[01:12:18] Speaker A: It was just like, oh, I think you gotta just stay away from fan discourse.
[01:12:21] Speaker B: I gotta stay away from fan discourse because it just really, like.
[01:12:26] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I agree.
[01:12:29] Speaker B: You know?
[01:12:29] Speaker A: All right, so now we're in the coffee shop and Angel's sitting across from Connor, talking about Nina, of all things. But it also. Okay, it also does make Sense.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: Because, like, didn't he send her away also, though? He, like, broke up with her and sent her away.
[01:12:42] Speaker A: A werewolf girlfriend. Boy. Not anymore.
[01:12:45] Speaker B: No, you don't.
[01:12:45] Speaker A: Not anymore.
[01:12:46] Speaker B: Also, you weren't claiming her, like, three episodes ago. Two episodes ago. Now all of a sudden, she's your girlfriend. Angel, he doesn't. He.
[01:12:54] Speaker A: It's. Once again, he doesn't want to appear weak in front of his son. Is he in competition? Connor told about his girlfriend. Angel has to talk about his girlfriend. Also, this poor, poor Vincent Kartheiser is probably like, can I please have some dialogue where I'm not talking about women?
[01:13:10] Speaker B: Weird. Sexual.
[01:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, we'll breeze past most of that, except until we get to the point where Connor says, I know you're my father, and just, like, you got your memories back. Connor says, yeah, they're in there with the new ones. I know. I was like, I think we already knew. Kind of like a bad dream I had, I guess a very strange and violent, at times inappropriately erotic dream. Why do we keep having to bring this up? Angel's like, you probably have a lot of questions. And Connor says, no, I don't want to make it a thing. I get what you did.
[01:13:33] Speaker B: He's like, no.
[01:13:34] Speaker A: He's like, actually, I don't. I don't need the talk. Thanks, Dad. I know what sex is. I think I've had more sex than you have at this point.
[01:13:41] Speaker B: He's like, even if I did have questions, like, I don't want to know.
[01:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Literally.
He's like, that's as far as I want to take it. And then angel takes it really well and is like, all right, so what are you working on? And they talk about how he's applying for a resume. Angel's like, wanting to help. Connor's like, have you ever written a resume? Angel's like, no, but I have very nice handwriting.
[01:14:05] Speaker B: Okay. Which is so funny because aren't we supposed to, like, type resumes in the 90s?
[01:14:11] Speaker A: You didn't have to.
[01:14:12] Speaker B: This was 2004 and 4.
[01:14:15] Speaker A: There's computers at this.
[01:14:16] Speaker B: Willow was walking around with a whole ass Mac book.
[01:14:18] Speaker A: That's true. That is a valid thing. It's crazy how much technology jumped.
[01:14:22] Speaker B: Was Connor literally gonna sit there and, like, hand write a resume? Like, is that.
[01:14:26] Speaker A: I want to know what book he's reading. Is it one that tells him how to write resumes? Like, why is he researching to write a resume? Also, I'm pretty sure his human dad probably would have helped him, but I don't know. Either way, cute scene I like. I'm so glad they brought Connor back.
[01:14:40] Speaker B: Me too.
[01:14:41] Speaker A: Of course.
[01:14:41] Speaker B: We were just talking. He would talk before we, like, started recording. But if we were saying how, like, every single character gets a really emotional scene, like a really personal, like, human connection scene type of thing, and Connor is Angels, like, it makes complete sense that if angel thinks he's gonna die, the person that he's gonna go see is his. His son. Like, yeah. Anyone else would be bizarre.
[01:15:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's perfect for his character. And it's. It's.
It's also nice to end the show not hating Connor either.
[01:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:15:17] Speaker A: You know.
All right, so now we're in an apartment. Lindsay and Eve are making out on a couch. It's like, jump scare.
He's like, what are you thinking about? She says, angel. And he's like, you simply couldn't have said a worse thing than that. I was like, no, Lindsay, be honest. You're also thinking about Angel.
[01:15:34] Speaker B: Always.
[01:15:35] Speaker A: And then he says, it's so nice to know you're one of the few things in my life. He didn't get his mitts on, you know, so she didn't tell him.
All right, then. All right.
Eve's like, I don't believe angel trusts you. Lindsay says, it isn't about that. It's about what he needs. And right now, he needs every hand he can get. As long as I'm fighting on his side, he'll play me fair. I love the every hand he can get, which is real rich reminder that, you know, angel cut off his hand. He doesn't actually need your hand, Lindsay. He can always cut it off, which I think is intentional. He cut off your hand once, he can do it again. Boy, like, he don't need your hands. He's got his own back, Lindsay. When the smoke clears, he's got spikes hands. Then we'll see where we stand.
And he's apparently, if he absolutely needed him, then she's like, you sure you can handle the Sarvans? He's like, they're sending me in with karaoke boy. Don't speak about Lauren like that. How tough can they be? And then he's like, you worried about his reading? Said your future is going to be crappy. He's probably telling you that just to mess with you. He says, things go down. I want you to stay the hell away from it. I'm not going to let anything happen to you. Damn, girl. You gave up immortality for me. It's like something out of a fairy tale. Just the way he talks about her is like, damn, girl, you gave up immortality for me. I'm like, like, how about I love you like this? I kind of. I kind of feel a little bad for Eve here. I'm like, this man is just.
[01:16:56] Speaker B: Hates her.
He hates her.
[01:16:58] Speaker A: He's just using until angel tells him he wants to be with him.
[01:17:01] Speaker B: I put out, like, a call out for questions for, like, the series wrap up. And I think it was Chris sent in a question being like, why was Eve there? And I responded being like, so that Lindsay could help have someone to hate.
[01:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yes. So he's. And so that we can have, like, a little call back to the Darla, Lindsay and Angel love triangle from season two and show how the cycle's repeating. And.
Oh, my gosh, this is so pointless. They. We just, like, jump in. All they've done is, like, make out this season. And I'm like, I don't. I don't think he even likes you. He doesn't, anyway.
All right, so then we go to Spike's basement apartment. The whole gang has reassembled. They're all there. And angel says, this may come out a little pretentious, but one of you will betray me. Spike's hand shoots up before angel has even finished speaking.
And then he's like, wes. And Spike's like, oh, darn it. And then he's like, can I deny you three times?
Angel's like, hey, Vale is a sorcerer of the bunch. You know that game. You've seen his. His Place. He talks about how Vale believes that Wesley would make a play for his spot.
And Wesley's like, well, that's not very flattering. We're like, okay, maybe take a deep, deep look. Yeah, like, deep in your heart, Wesley. And think maybe. Maybe there's some validity here.
[01:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:18:26] Speaker A: He says, it'll get you in the door. He tells Illyria that he wants her to go after Israel. The devil. The devil, Izzy and three other members. She's like, I'll make trophies of their spines. He's like, hello. Good to have you on the team. Yeah. Blue Thunder. He's like, gun. Gun's like, yo. And then Angel's like, your friend Senator Brucker has a campaign office in west la.
We see the senator talking on the phone. He says, you already know she's pure health spawn. She tends to surround herself with vampires. This is just so perfect for Gun. Gun says, I was hoping it'd be vamps. I haven't dusted nearly enough this year.
[01:18:57] Speaker B: We all say, yeah, bring back the truck.
[01:19:00] Speaker A: Literally.
[01:19:01] Speaker B: Literally thingy in the back.
[01:19:03] Speaker A: And then Angel's like, spike. Spike goes, right? He stands up and goes, first off, I'm not wearing any amulets. No bracelets, brooches, beads, pendants, pins or rings. And Angel's like, fine. All you need is a rattle. Spike's like, ah, the baby. He's like, yes, all Brethren. He's like, here we go. I remember you gave Buffy that amulet. We ain't doing that again.
[01:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, I'm not wearing any. Anything ever.
[01:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. He's actually. He's like, I'm gonna actually go in and just, like, go through a metal detector beforehand, just in case.
[01:19:34] Speaker B: Like, he's not about it.
[01:19:36] Speaker A: Not Liz Taylor this time at all.
So then we flash, like the Fell Brethren waiting in the lobby outside Angel's office before signing the contract to adopt the baby. Angel's like, I want the kid returned to his mother, the foster family dismembered. Spikes is done and done. And then angel says, archduke Sebastus has over 40,000 demons at his command. And then we see Archduke Sebastus is taking a bubble bath. He has his sleep preparing a glass of Sebastian's favorite blue beverage. And then we see him, like, filling it from his arm again. So gross. And then Angel's like, well, he's mine. And he says, lauren. And Lauren says, I'm not a fine fighter. Angel wings. I never had the stomach for it looks like I'm your weak link. No. Lord, I'm just always sad. Never sad.
[01:20:19] Speaker B: Lauren has done so much.
[01:20:21] Speaker A: I could rewrite everybody of this episode that I just. Just. I just can't. It just makes me physically slink. It just is so sad. He's not. And he just looks so despondent. Again, angel says, I just need you to back up Lindsay. Wesley's like, I still can't believe you brought him in. Angel says, he's part of this. It'll be just as dangerous for him as it will be for everyone else on our team. Ain't that the truth?
And then in Harmony's apartment, Harmony is looking so hot. And she crumbs.
[01:20:50] Speaker B: She Delio. Sh.
[01:20:51] Speaker A: Just so, so beautiful. And she's hooking up with Hamilton, and she's like, so about Angel's secret plan. And I looked high and low for that interview or whatever that I'd seen years and years ago. And maybe I made it up in my head, but there was, I swear, an interview that I saw with Adam Baldwin where he talked about how turned on he was with this scene.
And I don't think I made that up, but I looked and I could not find it. So if someone finds it, please vindicate me, because I swear that's out there. I bet you it got scrubbed from the Internet. Because that's like a super unprofessional thing to say about your co star.
But every time I see this scene, I think about that poor guy I probably like. I wonder if I made it up. And now that's all I think about when I see him.
[01:21:33] Speaker B: But maybe, anyway, you were turned on.
That's why.
[01:21:37] Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. But yeah, I'm glad Harmony got her. Yeah, maybe I'm glad Harmony got a moment.
And you know what?
[01:21:46] Speaker B: D. She got some D. She did.
[01:21:48] Speaker A: She looked gorgeous while doing it. And yeah, anyway, she tells him about the secret plan. Now we're in Spike's basement again, and he's handed out all the assignments to everyone. Everyone. So this is the moment that Lauren realizes what he's actually gonna have to do. Gun's like, all right, so I guess we're not going back to the office after this. Angel says no meet in the alley just north of the Hyperion. Yes, everyone who makes it meets meets us there. If we do any damage at all, the senior partners are going to rain hell on us, so be ready. I was like all their base. And as everyone's getting up to go, Lauren pulls Angel aside and says, hey, Ange, I'll do this last thing for you, for us, but then I'm out. And you won't find me in the alley afterwards. Hell, you won't find me at all. Do me a favor. Don't try.
[01:22:34] Speaker B: Oh, my God. God, I respect it.
[01:22:37] Speaker A: That hurts my.
[01:22:38] Speaker B: You know what?
I think it's right.
[01:22:41] Speaker A: I think it is right, but, man.
[01:22:43] Speaker B: I think it's time.
[01:22:45] Speaker A: I wish before and said, I. I'm not going to do that. But I also understand how much he just loves angel, that he's willing to, like, cross his own boundaries for him. But, like, at what cost, man?
[01:22:58] Speaker B: Well, I also think that Lauren wouldn't do something if he didn't want to do it, you know? Like, he's not the type of character or person that would.
Like, he has his beliefs, and I don't think he would go against his beliefs if he didn't think that it was for a good reason.
[01:23:17] Speaker A: Yeah, he clearly sees that Lindsay needed to. Needed to die.
[01:23:23] Speaker B: Like, I think that I see a lot of discourse about how angel was really cruel and, like, forced Lauren to kill Lindsay and I think that seems to be a lot of Lauren's agency, and I think that doesn't take into account the type of character that he is. Like, I think Lauren does it because he wants to do it, not because he was forced to. He could have said no, and he could have walked away, but he doesn't. And I think to say that he was forced to do this would be to, like, take away from his, like, character.
[01:23:54] Speaker A: So, yeah, I agree.
[01:23:55] Speaker B: I don't agree with those criticisms.
[01:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think Lauren ultimately did it for Angel.
I don't think this is necessarily something that Lauren wanted to do. I think it speaks to the friendship that he treasured with Angel.
But it also also does say something about angel that I don't necessarily like that he would even ask Lauren to do this, knowing Lauren's stance. Like, that's the thing that I really just struggle with. I. I get why angel kills Lindsay. I think it's totally fine and in character. And sadly, I do also think that it is in character for angel to mistreat Lauren like this. Like, he's been doing this. That's the entire show. Like, he's taken advantage of Lauren. And, yeah, Lauren, yes, could have said no, but it's just. It's really crappy that angel even asked him to do this.
[01:24:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. I would agree with that.
[01:24:49] Speaker A: So then Gun and Illyria are heading out. She says, try not to die. You're not unpleasant to my eyes. He's like, thanks, you. Try not to die, too. He shakes hands with Wesley, says later. Then we have a moment where Wesley looks at angel for a long moment.
That should have been the clue that one of them's gonna die.
And I. That was, like, so appropriate for the level of relationship they have. There's such a long history. And I wouldn't necessarily say there's a friendship there. There is a level of mutual respect, but there's such a lack of trust. And there's just a lot of. A lot of stuff between the two of them that I felt like that was appropriate. But. But I don't know. I look back to season one, Wesley and Angel, and it makes me hurt.
[01:25:31] Speaker B: That moment also reminded me of, like, in you're welcome, when Cordelia calls Wesley and tells him, like, he did the best mojo in town. And they share that final look, almost like saying goodbye, which I really like, because those were, like, the original three, you know, so you deserve to have a little moment, even if it's not an actual goodbye. But.
[01:25:54] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's about as. It's about as close as we're gonna get for Wesley. Honestly, Can't. Can't say goodbye. Can't say I'm sorry. Apparently, he's too manly for that.
[01:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:26:04] Speaker A: The team apparently departs for the final battle in the reverse order that angel initially met them. So Lauren goes first, then Gun, then Wesley, and then last Spike. So. Wow. Yeah. And then we're left with just Spike and Angel. And Spike's like, well, what do you think all this means for the Shonshu? If we make it through this, just one of us gets to be a real boy. Angel's like, who are you kidding? We're not gonna make it through. And we're. Spike's like, well, long as it's not you.
[01:26:28] Speaker B: Perfect. Perfect scene.
[01:26:30] Speaker A: His FOMO dialogue. If you get to be a real boy, I get to be a real boy, too.
[01:26:33] Speaker B: Honestly, Spike is the.
[01:26:35] Speaker A: Even if I get to be a real boy, you don't.
[01:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:26:40] Speaker A: So in Veil's house, we have them both sitting and on opposite ends of this ginormous formal dining room table. Veil's telling Wesley. He's like, what makes you think I won't kill you where you sit? Wesley says, says, because you're smarter than others. Smart enough to have your doubts about angel, and rightly so. He's unpredictable. And worse, he has a conscience. Veil says, will you make a very persuasive argument? Wesley's like, it gets better. And then we see Wesley's hand underneath the tabletop, and he has a fireball starting to form in his palm. And then in the lair of the Fell Brethren, Spike's going in to get the baby. Then we have Senator Brucker's campaign headquarters. They're all working. And then we have Gun coming in, unseen by all of them, both the senator and the vampires, until one of them swings at him. He ducks and punches back. It's like his first time walking into Wolfram and Hart. Yeah. It was such a cool callback.
[01:27:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:27:31] Speaker A: In the Sarvin lair, we have them all scattered about the room. And then Lindsay bursts in and just starts killing them all in the Los Angeles streets. Izzy and his guys get into the car, turn on the headlights, and bam, there's Illyria. That would be terrifying.
In the lobby of Wolfram and Hart, angel steps off the elevator, and he has Harmony there. And he's like, where's Hamilton? She's like, in the records room. I've been keeping him busy, like you said. And he's like, cool. I got to stop by the penthouse. But have my car ready. Keep Hamilton busy. He goes upstairs, and Harmony's like, huh? No problem. Oh, boss. And then up in the penthouse, as he's grabbing a knife, Hamilton appears and is like, I know that you're gonna visit Sebastus. Why don't. I think that's a gift? He punches angel super hard and sends him flying through the glass ceilings into the lobby. Angel crashes down, and Harmony immediately is like, oh, my gosh, he's not my boyfriend. I mean, I certainly didn't betray you. And he's like, drop the act, Harm. And she's like, it's not an act. I'm really this nervous. And he's. He's like, I knew you'd turn on me. I just didn't know when. And she's like, what do you mean you knew? And he's like, loyalty really isn't high on your list. And then she gets all offended, and she's like, I am damn loyal. And he goes, you betrayed me. You are betraying me now, even as we are talking.
But you know what I gotta say? Like, he's so gracious with her. He is. There's a kindness to her, to the way that he's treating her, that he. He didn't have to be that way. Even though I know I've been saying all season long, like, poor Harmony with how, like, abrupt and stuff that he's been treating her. It's just so nice to see angel, like, treating her with dignity at the end. I don't know, like, she didn't deserve to be dusted and stuff. Like, he knew what he was getting into by having her as his secretary. Well, I think it's.
[01:29:12] Speaker B: It's this thing where, like, angel has never forgotten that Harmony doesn't have a soul. And I think that informs both how he. He's treated her all season, but also how he kind of used her in this final act of his plan to bring Hamilton to him directly. He knew that she would sell him out. And he also knew that she.
She's. She's Harmony. Like, she's. I wouldn't say she's harmless, but, like, the fact that he gives her a letter of recommendation and it's, like, already on her desk, so cute.
[01:29:45] Speaker A: And she's like, you never had any confidence in me. He's like, because you have no soul. I would if you had confidence in me.
[01:29:52] Speaker B: I love that.
[01:29:53] Speaker A: And then he, like, gives her the recommendation. He's like, it's already in the desk. And she's like, you're the best. And then Hamilton comes down, and as they, like, you know, meet up, she's like, good luck made the best man win. And then she exits. And I'm like, I know so many of these actors and actresses have retired from acting. And it like. Like, it's so sad because I really want to see, like, Eliza. Douche coo. I want to see Mercedes McNabb on our screen. Like, it would just be so fun if Harmony just popped up in the continuation. Or others. I know it's probably not gonna happen, but, like, oh, my gosh, it would just be so fun. One of the things about the Buffyverse that I just love is all of these side characters that have arcs and are fully fleshed out characters in their own right. And it's. I don't know, it just makes the world feel that much more real.
[01:30:43] Speaker B: For sure.
[01:30:45] Speaker A: So then angel tries punching Hamilton and doesn't make a dent. And he's like, did that hurt at all? Hamilton, is this guy made out of rocks. Like Terminator is this beast?
Yeah, he was made in Wakanda. What is it? Vibranium. He's made out of vibranium.
He absorbs the punch and then it just like, explodes right back out.
So Hamilton is just wailing. Angel literally wiping the floor with him. And he's like, you know, yada yada. The senior partners have expended a lot of time and resources on you. I wouldn't have even bothered throwing angel around like a rag doll. Your gutter trash. You know, the fate stepped in. Made you a vampire with a soul, no less. A champion to hear of the people. And yet you still manage to fail everyone around you. Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, they're all gone now. It's time you followed. Did you really think you were going to kill Archduke Sebastus? Angel says no. I think I already did. Aw, poor.
[01:31:41] Speaker B: So apparently, when he pushed away the.
[01:31:44] Speaker A: Little Timote Chalamet, the little twink, he, like, poisoned him.
And then, of course, of course, Archdeus, Archduke Sebastus is dead.
[01:31:57] Speaker B: I'm keeping that.
[01:31:58] Speaker A: Archduke Sebastian killed her husband.
Sebastus killed him.
[01:32:09] Speaker B: I'm getting PTSD flashbacks to Covid when.
[01:32:12] Speaker A: 2020 came out, killed his twink, whacked him, whacked him, drowned him in his twin bathtub.
[01:32:20] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:32:21] Speaker A: Sebastus.
[01:32:27] Speaker B: Somebody put a music score track. Let's go.
[01:32:31] Speaker A: I'll remix it if you need me to. It's all good.
[01:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do.
[01:32:36] Speaker A: Just kind of worked a little too well.
Yeah. All right. So angel spiked his drink and Then we see him die, yada, yada. And then Angel's like, I figured you were the one I needed to be alone with. I don't. Like, Eddie's dead, but, like, people die. And then Hamilton's like, why? So I could kill you? Angel's like, well, I thought the fight would be going a little better. Hamilton's like, oh. He throws angel off the balcony. He lands back on the floor in the lobby. Now we're in the lair of the Fell Brethren. Spike finds the baby. He goes, hello, Junior. The name's Spike. He's like talking him like he's like a little person. Like, yeah, he is a little person.
[01:33:09] Speaker B: Growing a big person. Yeah.
[01:33:11] Speaker A: He's like, and lucky for you, I'm on a strict diet. Then he turns around, there's like the Fell Brethren. And they're like, place the holy vessel back in the bassinet. This is no to my husband. When I'm like, stop picking the baby up. And then Spike's like.
And the baby, like, shakes his head at him. He's like, all right, fine. Throws off the robe and then fights one handed while holding the baby. As if we could not love Spike more. They set him serious. Have him go after the baby. I was like, this is just playing with our hearts a little too much here.
[01:33:38] Speaker B: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sarah, come on.
[01:33:41] Speaker A: I'm getting nostalgic. This is the last time I'm seeing these characters on screen. I'm like, eve. The is the last time we see Eve. No, I'm not that bad.
I've already. I've already recorded Chosen. So this is my last, like, Buffy verse episode, you know, like, true. It's a big moment for me.
Okay, so in the Sarvin lair, Lindsay is engaged in a fight. You know, still cutting them all down. In Vale's mansion, Wesley is slinging Cybus's body across the dining room. Says, your influence on this world is over. The. The rest of rest. The circle will wither and die. Starts to form another fireball in his palm. And Veil stands back up and is just like, I crap better magic than this. No, then let me. He's like, in between.
[01:34:23] Speaker B: He's literally like behind death's door.
[01:34:25] Speaker A: Like, I just don't understand out all the fluids. Like, push him over.
[01:34:31] Speaker B: Just push him over.
[01:34:34] Speaker A: Like, how hard hard is it?
[01:34:36] Speaker B: Like, push him down a flight of tires. Your job is done.
Seriously. He's like. He's like halfway mummified at this point.
[01:34:45] Speaker A: That's probably why angel thought Wesley could do this, but yeah, yeah. Then Vale raises his hand and ends up, like, taking the fireball out of Wesley's hand and is like, let me show you what a real wizard can do.
And then we're back to Wolfram and Hart. Hamilton's still pummeling angel in the lobby, just, like, punching him repeatedly in the face. But Angel's managing to stay on his feet. Hamilton's like, why do you keep. Keep fighting? You signed away your. Your shan. Shoe is how he says it. There's nothing in it for you anymore. Angel punches him back. And this is. This might just be one of my favorite lines of the entire episode. He says, people who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
[01:35:26] Speaker B: Period.
[01:35:28] Speaker A: And I think.
I think that's also, like, part of Lindsay's thing, too. I think it's implied. Like, Lindsay doesn't truly care about Eve. Lindsay only cares about himself. And that's not the same thing about caring for something.
And. I don't know, it also just, like, speaks to the fact that angel hasn't fully lost his conscience and his conviction and all that stuff. Like, there's still a part of angel that deeply, deeply cares about people.
Yeah, that's the most important thing for me, personally.
[01:35:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:35:57] Speaker A: So then Hamilton, like, punches angel hard, sends him across the room and says, yeah, but we won't care. Angel rise on the floor, groaning as Hamilton picks up a stake off Harmony's desk. He rears over angel, but before he can do it, and punches him in the face, sending him flying across the room. And it's Connor.
[01:36:14] Speaker B: Ah.
[01:36:15] Speaker A: I love that he came back and he says, care about that dress for less. He pulls angel up, and Angel's like, what the hell are you doing here? And Connor's like, come on. You drop by for a cup of coffee, and the world's not ending. Please. It's true.
[01:36:28] Speaker B: It's true.
[01:36:29] Speaker A: Father's son, he is.
He's just like. With Buffy's like, hey.
Music plays. He swathed in golden light. I need to go watch that moment again.
So then in Senator Brucker's campaign headquarters, Gun is just engaging nearly everyone there. The Senator's still on the phone. She's just, like, signaling vampire after vampire to go after Gun. And finally, Gun just, like, throws his ax, and it, like, hurls it at her head and lands in the middle of her forehead, and she's dead. And then he's like, looks like you boys are going to need to find a new candidate. And he's like. And you wonder why. Folks, folks, don't vote. I was like, oh, yes.
Amen, man.
So he's fighting them, but it's. It's, like, pretty clear he's very outnumbered. So then on the streets, Illyria's walking away from Izzy's car. The hood is smoking. And I'm like, illyria, go help some of these people out here. Honestly. In Angel's office, Eve is pacing nervously in the lair. Lauren is treading carefully as he walks around all these bodies and. And he's looking just absolutely sick as Lindsay is washing his hands in the sink. The set design for this scene was so intentional. Like, it's all red.
Everything is red. Like, the carpet is red, the floors are red. And then we have Lauren, who's green as a contrast. And then Lindsay just wearing kind of this white blue shirt. Like, the coloring is just very, very intentional.
And he's all like, those guys were chumps. And Lauren's like, now they're chunks. Demon strength or no, you're quite the master swordsman.
And apparently he let out a high note that also helped. Lindsay's like, any word on the rest of the team? And Lauren says, for all I know, we are the rest of the team. I haven't heard squat.
Lindsay says, that's weird. And Lauren says, they'll call. Lindsay says, no, I mean, me saying team and meaning it. I kind of like the feeling. And Lauren says, yeah, today speaks to how he used to feel about the team and how he just doesn't feel connected to them anymore. Lindsay says, you're really done with them. Lauren says, it isn't my kind of work anymore. It's unsavory. Lindsay says, gee, I think it's just getting interesting. And Lauren says, yeah, I bet you do.
Yeah. And this is why Lauren knows he needs to die. Lindsay says, you don't trust me. You don't think a man can change? And Lauren says, it's not about what I think. This was Angel's plan.
He sighs. And Lindsay says, come on, I could sing for you. And Lauren says, I've heard you. You sing. And then pulls out the gun and just shoots him, like, three times without flinching.
And Lindsay stumbles back and says, why? And Lauren says, one last job. You're not part of the solution, Lindsay. You never will be. Lindsay says, you kill me. A flunky. I'm not. Just angel kills me. You don't. And his last word is Angel. And then he just dies. And Lauren sighs, looks down, and says, good night. Night, folks. And walks off our screens.
Oh, this is to Me the most painful. Like, I know everybody points to Wesley and Fred and Illyria's thing, but this, to me, just breaks my heart every time. Like, yeah, it's just so.
[01:39:32] Speaker B: And weren't you saying that in Spin the Bottle? It. It's actually, like, the end of the episode. It takes place after this.
[01:39:40] Speaker A: That's my head. Canon. We're never, like. We never know. But I love him saying. Saying him saying good night, folks. I like to believe that that's his way of processing his grief and, like. And. And it makes so much sense why Spin the Bottle would be a moment that he would remember because it was one of those times where the gang was together and connected and, like, he remembers them fondly. But, like, there's a sadness and then the fact that he, like, walks away and it's just empty. Like, I don't know. I had canon. That's Lauren after all of this has happened, like, always breaking the fourth wall. So bleak. So bleak.
Oh, it's so sad. So sad. Okay, but I actually do have an interesting quote here from Christian Cain, and I kind of alluded to it back in Underneath.
So Christian Cain was on set the day that the executives and Joss and everybody else came and informed the actors and the crew and everyone that the show had been canceled.
And originally, Christian Kane, I believe, from what this quote says, wasn't supposed to die. And Joss made the decision to kill Christian Cain that day.
So Christian Kane says, we were filming a scene where I was down the basement in the dungeon getting my heart cut out every day by a demon. It was me, David James Masters, and Kelly Manners. Joss came in with Kelly and broke the news that we had been canceled. David took it very well and went to his trailer. David knew he was always going to have a career because he. He was a good actor. He took it very well. And I walked Joss out. Right when we got to the stage door, I said, are you all right? And Joss said, yes. I said, what are you going to do? And he replied, I'm going to fucking kill you. And I was all right with it. I was fine with it at that point because I knew it was over. I had arguably the worst death in the world because I felt like I should have been there for the final fight. I felt like after all these years, Lindsay deserved to be there. Angel had a trust in him, and he even said, you're good in a fight night. Interesting story. We filmed my death scene where Lauren shoots me two and a half months before the finale. Even Though it was in that episode, we filmed it at 6am on a blocked stage with six people. Joss did not want people to know. We filmed it and it took an hour and a half to film. By noon the next day, people knew I died. Somebody had leaked it back then. It was very upsetting to me that, A, I had to die. B, I was killed by a flunky. I hated it. Now, after all these years, I understood what Joss was doing. I was never upset about the fact of what he was doing, because in the middle of the show when you think I'm going to be there at the end, I died. It was a great, great moment and it was shock value. I was upset about it until about five years ago with the passing of my dear friend Andy Hallett. I thought, there's no better way that I could have gone out. I got killed by my best friend. Andy didn't want to do it. He was very scared of guns and he didn't like the fact that he was the one.
[01:42:26] Speaker B: What the.
[01:42:32] Speaker A: I know.
Like, I don't know. I don't know if that makes it worse or not, but the fact, like, Christian Kane didn't like the way that his character went out and, like, a lot of the feelings that he's expressing in that moment are actually what Christian Kane thinks, like, I should be with angel or angel should be the one to kill me. But then also the fact that Andy Hallett didn't. Was afraid of guns and didn't want to shoot him and that they were like, best friends. So, like, knowing that both the actors were feeling those feelings in the moment and.
But then him saying, like, I got killed by my best friend and, like, what a way to go out.
I know. I'm so sorry. I know every time I read that, I tear up. And I've read it, like, multiple times because it's like, oh, it's pretty gut wrenching. But I just want to say, like. And again, not to, like, make this about Joss and stuff, but I have read a lot about Joss over the past five years and I have read probably everything that there is to read from actors who have been killed off. Their character's been killed off by Joss and stuff. And it is a. A repeated pattern of Joss taking out his anger on decisions that the network makes on. On decisions or like, on reactions from the audience and things that are happening. And he writes it, particularly in his stories, to make everybody else feel the pain that he's feeling, too. And, like, Joss has even Said that he. He does that intentionally. And it's just. There's a. There's a consistency to him punishing characters because of his own rage and frustration that I just find really, really icky. And, I mean, they're actors there. Sometimes you have to do uncomfortable things. I get it. But sometimes it's just like, really, dude? Really? Really? But, yeah. Anyway, that was a lot. Yeah, that was a lot.
[01:44:21] Speaker B: You really hurt me with that one.
[01:44:23] Speaker A: I know. I'm sorry. I hurt myself every time I read it. I'm like, I know, I know. God, no. Yeah.
[01:44:31] Speaker B: Got punch.
[01:44:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
All right. So in Cys Bale's mansion, Wesley's just, like, strung up in the middle of the air by Bale's magic. And Bale's like, did you really think you had a shot at this? This? I can bend the very fabric of reality to my. Well, your parlor tricks can never kill me, boy. Wesley's like, all right, I'm gonna do. Do this the old fashioned way. And pulls out a switchblade. But Vale grabs it and it's like, yeah, I suppose we will. And then grabs a larger knife from the wall and then just thrusts it into Wes's stomach and turns the knife like, there's no way he's coming back from this. Wesley finally conjures one more fireball and it explodes, sending Veil across the room. Wesley falls, lands on his feet, but it is stumbling just as Illyria rushes into the room. She looks at his wound and helps him to the floor and says, this wound is mortal. And he says, aren't we all? He looks at her and smiles and says, it was good that you came. And she says, I killed all mine, and I was. And he goes concerned, and she says, I think so, but I can't help. You'll be dead within moments. And he says, I know. She says, would you like me to lie to you now? And she sounds like Fred right there in the way that her voice softens. And he looks at her weakly and says, yes, closes his eyes and says, thank you. Yes, opens his eyes. And we see Fred's face, her hand stroking his cheek. And then he says, hello there. And she's crying and she says, oh, Wesley, my Wesleyan looks just like Fred. And he says, fred, I miss you. Oh, my gosh.
And then she kisses his lips and then kisses his forehead. And it's like a mirror of what. What he did to her when she was dying. And she says, it's going to be okay. It won't hurt much longer. And then you'll be where I am. And it's endlessly fascinating to me that Wesley's death is almost more in service to Illyria than it is to Wesley. And that's always. That's something that I find so beautiful because his, like Illyria and Fred, has always been in service of Wesley. But in this moment, this is so much more about Illyria. Like, it's a. The. He's furthering her arc by helping her understand human grief.
I think, like, she was devastated by her armies being decimated, but, like, this is a grief that is so much more human and intimate. And it's really interesting because apparently Amy Acker said at a Hyperion convention that Weeden redirected this scene after realizing that it was not about Wesley's love for Illyria or Fred, but it was about Illyria's love. Love for Wesley. And so they had to reshoot it to convey those feelings.
[01:46:58] Speaker B: And they really did.
[01:46:59] Speaker A: They did, because I got that before I even knew that that happened. Yeah.
And she says, we'll be together. He says, I love you, and she says, I love you, my love. Oh, my love. And it's just, like, heartbreaking because, like, this is just lie upon lie because we know that her soul doesn't exist anymore. So there's nowhere that Wesley can go. He's just never gonna see Fred again.
[01:47:21] Speaker B: But this makes so much sense for Wesley.
[01:47:23] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, it does. It totally does.
[01:47:27] Speaker B: Seeing a lie is, like, the last thing that he sees. A fantasy.
[01:47:31] Speaker A: And holding on to that and clinging to that. Yeah, yeah.
[01:47:35] Speaker B: Because that was so much comfort. Like, that's the thing.
It brings him so much comfort and peace as he's dying. And I just.
[01:47:43] Speaker A: And I can't begrudge him that.
[01:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think you and I were saying that, like, you know, at the end of this, like, I'd like to believe that all the others survived, but I don't think Wesley.
[01:47:56] Speaker A: He.
[01:47:56] Speaker B: He needed to, I don't think. Yeah.
[01:47:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:47:59] Speaker B: Like, I don't think he could have lived aft, like, from after this. And it makes sense that he died.
[01:48:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially because I can't imagine the gang. I would imagine they're pretty fragmented, even if they do live after this. This, too.
Oh. But then this moment, like Illyrius, Fred's just, like, laying or, like, sitting there. She, like, lays him down. And then Veil is conscious on his feet, comes back behind her and says, how very touching. She still looks like Fred. He says how very touching his meaningless death was. But this fight was never for mortals. He says, take Your best shot, little girl. And then we have this gorgeous, gorgeous moment where Elyria swings a powerful punch at Vale's head. Transformed, transforming from Fred to Illyria mid swing. And she just shatters Vale's head with the force.
[01:48:46] Speaker B: Unbelievable.
[01:48:47] Speaker A: And it's crazy. And Amy Acker says that this scene was the last one that she shot for the show and that Joss was on set and everything for that. And. Yeah, crazy. Yeah.
[01:48:58] Speaker B: This was one of probably the most beautiful scenes.
[01:49:00] Speaker A: Oh, it was gorgeous.
[01:49:02] Speaker B: On the show. It, like, almost rivals, like, becoming part two.
[01:49:07] Speaker A: Oh, one kills 800.
[01:49:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:49:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:49:10] Speaker B: So good.
[01:49:11] Speaker A: Gorgeous.
[01:49:12] Speaker B: And that's the thing, like, I don't. I wouldn't say that I necessarily ship Fred and Wesley, like, we've talked about that a lot, but you just can't help but feel in this scene because.
[01:49:23] Speaker A: The actors are so flipping.
[01:49:24] Speaker B: Yeah, good.
So, so good. And it's like, even some of this dialogue, like, I feel like if it was somebody else saying this dialogue, it might have sounded a bit. Bit cheesy or cringy. But they just make it work so well. And I just. It just speaks to, like, the talent that these shows have.
And it's just. It's so impressive.
[01:49:46] Speaker A: And the layers of it being Illyria as well. Like, I. This is real emotion that Illyria is feeling, too. Like, obviously, it's so wonderful to see Fred again.
But, yeah, it also. It also is Illyria and, like, the fact that she's feeling or it's feeling those things.
And then, yeah, Wesley, Alexis Denisov does just such a good job. Oh, it's so good. I love it.
So then the lobby of Wolverine, Hart, Connor and Angel have teamed up to fight against Hamilton. Hamilton's like, what is it with you people? And he ends up throwing Connor into the elevator doors where he collapses to the floor. Angel tries to go to him, but is blocked by Hamilton, tries to fight, but then gets thrown across the room. And then Hamilton straightens his tie, starts to walk towards him and says, let me say this as clearly as I can. You cannot beat me. I am part of them. The wolf, ram and heart. Their strength flows through my veins. My blood is filled with their ancient power. I love this moment. Angel gets.
And we see that smirk, and he's like, can you pick out the one word there that you. You probably shouldn't have said? What a brilliant way to include the concept of him being a vampire. Because we had to have one last vamp out.
And he vamps out and then he run. Goes over and goes, wow, you really are full of It. What were you saying about ancient power after he, like, he bites him and everything? Hamilton says, you don't really think you're going to win this, do you? Don't stand a chance. We are legion. We are forever. Angel says, I guess forever, as he hits him, just got a hell of a lot shorter. Kills him. Connor gets up, says, is he dead?
Angel says, yes. Glass is shattering. It's starting to, you know, earthquake, Apocalypse City happening. And then angel says, they're taking the gloves off. And then he tells Connor to go home. Says, this is my fight. Connor says, that's some serious macho. But then doubles over in pain. Angel says, go home now. Connor says, they'll destroy you. And angel says, as long as you're okay, they can't go. And then Connor takes off. Eve comes out. It's like, what the hell is going on? Angel says, it's like we're getting kicked out of the Garden. And Eve says, where's Lindsay? And angel says, he's not coming for you. And she realizes what that means. And then he says, time to give it up, Eve. Go where? And I like that we don't see her leave. It's almost like the building collapses with her in it. Because, like, what else. What else can she do?
[01:52:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:52:10] Speaker A: Yep.
And I don't really feel bad for her, honestly.
[01:52:13] Speaker B: I don't care.
[01:52:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I really don't. Don't.
[01:52:17] Speaker B: I don't care.
[01:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah. There's so many other big things happening. You think that's gonna make me feel bad? Right.
So it's raining. Of course it is. Angels running into the alley. IMDb says this is the same alley that Faith had her fight in 5x5, but I don't know if that is true or not. He's running down the alley with a sword in his hands, looking for his friends. I love how he's going down the alley, just like in the intro song. And of course, course it's an alley, right?
[01:52:40] Speaker B: Of course.
[01:52:41] Speaker A: And reading angel talks about how the latter third of this season has been each member of the gang returning to their otherness, like I talked about earlier, that define them in the earlier seasons.
And how, like, you know, they're also having the return of the fight for the little guy, the fight for the helpless, and that we really see that encompassed in this episode. And they say here, where is it? They said, by the end of the season, opponents are no longer divorced from the city. Instead, in a senator whose staff prey on the homeless, the direct social relevance of earlier seasons resurfaces. Similarly, Challenging the institutions supporting Wolfram and Hart suggests suggests desire to recognize the interesting correspondence between great concentrations of corporate power and large concentrations of amalgamated other in quotations infiltrating the neocolonial corporate power networks that maintain the exploitation of LA's poor and that were the villains of Angel's very first episode against the corporate meetings of the first half the season. In shells, each figure appears alone, isolated in grief for Fred, no longer a united coalition. And in Angel's final episode, Spike returns to his poetry gun to Anne and his own neighborhood. Wesley to his role of watcher in his position as Illyria's caretaker Laurent cabaret performance each figure returning to his identity and to an acknowledgment that hybridity only functions effectively within an awareness of difference. What emerges in the very final scene of angel is recognition of this contrapuntal. Contrapuntal reality, I think is what it is. Angel as other emerging in the alley alone again framed by barbed wire, only to then be joined gradually by his team members who form a coalition of difference between and hybrid potential. To never resolve such tension is not necessarily problematic. Rather it represents a fitting conclusion mirroring the dilemma real world others of LA must face.
How to maintain unique individuality, yet at the same time build a united city that allows for the celebration of difference in all its forms. While this is really fitting right now, the fusion of Angel Investigations thus offers the opportunity to represent a critique of those who cast LA as beyond redemption. The countervailing force which which created much inter ethnic solidarity. Usually unnoticed by the common depiction of the 1992 events like the riots and everything being both inside and outside the city, hovering on its margins reflects the tension in such a location. Returning to the city in response to Angel's call. Let's go to work from not fade away Fighting evil where they began, angel at its end and therefore as a whole returns ultimately to a very complex, most postmodern urban reality. An onslaught of monsters that must continually be faced, challenged at the same time by both the individual's unique strengths and the community's cross cultural resilience. And like, that's something that like really was very apparent in the beginning of the show. The otherness of angel and like those two sides of him and how that was reflected in Los Angeles and reflected in all these people who have like very complex, multi layered lives. You have Gun, who is a demon fighter, a vampire, a fighter and also works for a vampire.
You have Wesley, a watcher who now works for a demon, a vampire. You have Cordelia. You have like and we just keep. Can keep going about the layers to all these characters. And that was kind of lost. And so in this moment, there's kind of a return to that and it being an alleyway, a place of transition, you know, And I just. I love that.
[01:56:11] Speaker B: I love that.
[01:56:13] Speaker A: So Spike pops out because, of course he's alive. Angel asks, anyone else. Spike's like, not so far. You feel the heat? Angel says, it's coming. Spike says, finally got ourselves a decent brawl. Gun arrives in the alley, and ax in the hand, he. This is like the most chipper. He's been, like, all season long. He's like, damn, how'd I know the Fang boys would pull through? He's like, you're lucky we're on the same side, dogs, because I was on fire tonight. My game was.
[01:56:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you were.
[01:56:37] Speaker A: Spike's like, something supposed to wear that red stuff on the inside. Charlie boy. We see that he's bleeding pretty, pretty badly. As he sits down, he says, any word on Wes, his best friend?
Spike denies this head. Illyria arrives, literally falling from above. She says, wesley's dead. I'm feeling grief for him. I can't seem to control it. I wish to do more violence. We see they specifically pan to Gun's face when he hears Angel's face.
Oh, they pan to Angel. Yeah, yeah. And I just. Oh, it's so sad. And then we hear, like, shrieks and howls, and we see that there's, like, a bunch of just beings rushing for them. And Spike says, well, wishes just happened to be horses today. Angel says, among other things. We see a dragon coming down the alleyway. Gun says, okay, you take the 30, 000 on the left, which is a callback to Pilea. When Gun told Wes that he would take the 20 on the left and west should take the. The 50 on the right. Illyria says, you're fading. You'll last 10 minutes at best. We continue to hear the demons shouting and snarling. And Gun says, then let's make them memorable. Spike says, and in terms of a plan, angel goes, we fight. Spike's like, be more specific. And angel says, well, personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon. Let's go to work. And we end with angel picking up his sword, and the fight continues on so much.
[01:57:55] Speaker B: What a perfect ending.
[01:57:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And I know, like, I know you've seen the interviews and heard, like, the cast talking, I think, at the 20th or the 20th anniversary about how it's in their mind. It was like, that was it. That was the end Their characters died in that alley. Like, they died fighting. And.
[01:58:14] Speaker B: Well, I think David Boreanas did say that he thinks he survived, but because.
[01:58:18] Speaker A: I know Jay was like, I think we died. Yeah.
[01:58:21] Speaker B: And then James Marsters I think said, it doesn't matter. Like, that's not the. The point.
[01:58:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:58:26] Speaker B: You know.
Yeah, I'd like to think that they survived, but that's just me. But I like the fact that you can decide for yourself. I feel like that's such.
It's such a fitting end because. And I, I. When you read that quote by James Mercers in the beginning about how, like, they couldn't really show the monsters because they didn't have money.
And I'm like, but that makes so much sense. Like, it doesn't matter who they're fighting about the monsters. It's not about the monsters. Monsters will come and go. But, like, it's them being there fighting and, like, Angel's two final lines being like, well, I kind of want to slay the dragon, which is so cool.
You know, it's like a giddy little moment where he's like, oh, there's a dragon. I want to slay it. And, like, Buffy would be so jealous. I feel like, yeah, she didn't get.
[01:59:14] Speaker A: To slay a dragon.
[01:59:15] Speaker B: She didn't get to slay a dragon. And then. Let's go to work. Work. Yeah. Just perfection.
Yeah, perfection. I love it.
[01:59:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's funny, like, you and I talking about, like, politically and just like that last quote that I was reading about how, like, LA is diverse and, like, that's kind of its Persona, and, like, that's everything that has been, like, so represented. And that's a lot like, being from la. That's something that I felt a lot like watching the news, like, this past week and just being kind of like, oh, you picked the wrong city. Like, yeah, that is a place that is literally built on diversity. And it's something that, like, Jay August Richards talks about, too. Like, I won't read the whole quote, but he talks about the ending being controversial, and he talks about how the essential question is, if you knew you were going to lose, would you still fight for what you believe is right? Would you still fight for good or what you believe to be good? The answer that the characters came up with was, yes. My character was the one who asked the question that means more to me now, especially in these times, politically. I was actually just thinking about it over the last few days, and the meaning of what has become even more relevant for me right now. In our history and where we are as a nation. I think. Think it's beautiful and was perfect.
[02:00:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
And it's still relevant today. Literally right now.
[02:00:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, man, what a beautiful finale. What a beautiful ending to the show.
[02:00:35] Speaker B: I think, like, I had. I still have mixed feelings just if I, like, sit down and think about it, like, that first kind of review that you read when the person was talking about, like, you know, are. Is it the. Are the consequences, like. Like, consequences. You know?
But I just think it just makes so much sense, and I guess talking through all of this has made me appreciate it more and not really. I'm not really thinking about the logical side of things when I'm watching this. And I like that. Like, I don't need to think about the logistics because when it comes to the finale. Yeah.
[02:01:16] Speaker A: I don't really want to think. And that's how we all came to kind of Chosen. I was like, this episode has so many holes, but I don't care. When I get to the end, I want it to be cathartic for me. Like, I want it. I want to get to a place where it fits thematically, but also I want to see my characters in a good place, you know?
[02:01:33] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[02:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
All right, so we asked you guys online what you guys thought about the finale. And so we're gonna kind of read a little bit of what you guys sent in. So we have. I mean, there's so many we have from Tara. She says, while I love Not Fade Away, I'm sad that Angel's journey ends with the majority of his family dead. Since the pilot, Doyle stressed that angel needs human connections. And it has always bugged me that he's only left with Spike and Illyria. That's why, in my head, Cannon Gun survives, because I need angel to have at least one member of his human family.
Comparing Not Fade Away to Chosen, I've always preferred Not Fade Away, and I rewatch it more than Chosen. Which series finale do you prefer?
So, like you said, you prefer Not Fade Away. I always prefer Chosen just because Buffy's my girl, and I always love it, being hopeful. But I do agree with you that just from, like, a, like, episode point of view, Not Fade Away is technically better.
It. There's a lot less holes. They use their time, I think, a little bit more effectively.
And thematically, it. It works even on. It works a little bit better versus, I think that Chosen, if you think about it a little too hard, it kind of falls apart.
[02:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, Absolutely. Yeah. For me, it's. It has to be Not Fade Away. For sure.
Even though I also, like, I love the final shot of Chosen so much. And like, contrary to popular assumption, I would say I really like your assumption. Like, I feel like people would assume that I would hate the shot, the Spike and Buffy scene, but I really love that scene. I really like the Scooby scenes. But yeah, as just as an episode. Like, I think Not Fade Away is one of the best episodes of, like, the Buffy verse. And I don't think that Chosen can compare, just technically speaking.
[02:03:22] Speaker A: So, yeah, I think I agree as well.
And yeah, I. I understand where Tara's coming back about, like, angel needs his human connections. And I think my response to that would be that I would hope. Hope that angel has learned a lot over his five years, that he does need those connections and that, yeah, let's say angel makes it out and other people do. Not that Angel's going to seek that out and he's going to try and find those human connections with other people and that he will always be connected to Buffy. And so, you know, he goes and he finds her and he helps her train slayers. So there's his human connection.
[02:03:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that.
[02:04:01] Speaker A: That's my. That's my headcanon. And this is from Larry Buckley. Thoughts on the finale. Sorry, but it's hard for me to keep this short. I love everything leading up to the finale. Even though it ends on a cliffhanger. I thought it wrapped things up in a really satisfying way. Connor helping Angels. Spike spending what could be his last night on Earth reading poetry instead of pining after someone felt cathartic to see for him, especially when he was applauded for it. Amen. Lauren's ending was sad, but also badass. You're much more than a flunky, Lauren. It's sad and crazy to think that by the very end, all the original fanging except angel and Lauren are dead or dying. At first, I felt like I did after the Sopranos finale. Disappointed for a second. Then it really sank in and I ended up loving it. The fight goes on. Same with Buffy. Even with her happy ending, the fight doesn't stop Angel's last line. Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon. Let's go to work was the perfect line to end on. I'm not usually a big fan on open endings, but this one nailed it for me. And I was glad to see my feeling that they made it out more or less was confirmed in the after the Fall comics.
Yeah, love that. And it's so funny. Because it's like there's a lot of people that love it and there's a lot of people that just do not some mixed reviews.
Yeah.
So many people that were just like they said hated it. The Black Thorn thing is rushed. West's death is pointless. The ending has meaning, but is rushed. Bittersweet. Some perfect moments. Some that make me so angry I could flip a table. Yes. But the final scene, the ending being there is no ending. The fight continues. Perfect.
[02:05:30] Speaker B: Perfect.
[02:05:31] Speaker A: Others I love it. 10 out of 10 perfection.
Others said loved it. I think Lauren had the best exit out of all the characters. Angel had the best line.
Oh man. There's so many.
This was going to be the ending no matter how many seasons it was. Fighting the good fight. Someone else's hate it. Angel would have never let his friends die. And he doesn't save the world. Just piss with Wolf in a heart for nothing. Valid.
Max. Brad. Whatever critically touched said about it is how I feel. Stay woke.
[02:06:00] Speaker B: Yep. Stay woke indeed.
[02:06:03] Speaker A: Slayer and Souls. I can't fill all my thoughts in this tiny little box.
Hard to watch, says Kmeo. Underscore 10. Hard to watch. Sad, but it was necessary. I loved it. No other way to end it. Final shot. Epic. Absolutely.
Abel. The final. The finale was good. It's just that cliffhanger at the end. I'm sure a lot. Lot agree. Yeah.
[02:06:23] Speaker B: I love the cliffhanger.
[02:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[02:06:25] Speaker B: Best part of the episode.
[02:06:28] Speaker A: Queen C has layers. I love the ending. It's what the whole show is about. Even if it shows how they could have done better all along if they had focused on themselves. Should have had a season six. But maybe it's better.
I think better all along if they. Where is it better that they didn't? Considering how up and down the seasons are. Someone else says, I hated the fact it was the series finale. But then 12 years of bones and seven years of seal team wouldn't exist. That is so true.
[02:06:53] Speaker B: Just Mike is like, I hate the fact that it ended just period.
Give me more.
[02:06:58] Speaker A: Same. Same. Danny says heartbreaking every time I watch it. But one of the best episodes of the Buffy verse. Yeah.
And then we have someone else says, I really don't get it. There is no good in it. Just apocalypse and no hope. All the human will. Let's see. Did they continue that? I don't think they continued on.
I think it's probably all the humans will die or something.
And then. Let's see. Oh, and then Tony from All Bronze, no Brains. I personally really love the finale. I love each of the crew's individual missions that the Blackthorn twist that I think they carried off really well in the balance of comedy and Dramata was perfect. Favorite moment when Harmony or Angel fires Harmony for betraying them. But still, as a reference for her on his desk, Lauren killing Lindsay and not showing up the fight was impactful. Illyria becoming Fred to lie to Wes and her genuine emotion at his death was great. Loved seeing Gun return to form. It was so bittersweet because I actually think it was a strong ending for either a season or a series, but would have loved to have seen after the fall, the TV version.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah. So agree on so many levels. I don't know. Did I miss any?
I don't think. Or did I get them all? There was a lot, and I'm so. I loved reading all of them. So thank you, everybody, for sending in your stuff.
Yeah, it's just. It's so funny. There's nobody that's like, meh, yeah, it's okay. Everyone's either, like, absolutely hate it, absolutely love it, you know, which is understandable. And I get it. I think that there's things about it that, like, I think it's supposed to be uncomfortable, and that's why I can't ever fully hate it. But it's like, the things that make me uncomfortable, I'm just like.
[02:08:32] Speaker B: I think the thing about, like, most shows or people that watch shows is I think people expect there to be, like, an ending that. That's just, like, wrapped in a bow and, like, yes, a definitive ending. But I think for this show, it makes sense that there isn't.
[02:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, right.
[02:08:48] Speaker B: Like, it couldn't end any other way.
[02:08:51] Speaker A: It's not like a character assassination. Because I know there are some shows that end and they try to do the whole, we're not going to wrap it in a bow thing, but it also just doesn't make any sense for where the characters are at, where the. The series is at. Like, I think about, like, Game of Thrones.
I think about how I met your mother. I know you haven't seen that one, but there's a couple of, like. Like, series endings where the writers either had an idea in their mind the entire time and didn't be. Didn't become flexible with their characters as time went on. And so, like, wedged themselves into a corner or others where they're like, we just want to be completely subversive. And everyone's left scratching their heads going, hang on, I don't understand.
But this was one of the few truly subversive finales that you're like. This actually makes sense, you know?
[02:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[02:09:37] Speaker A: So that's it.
[02:09:40] Speaker B: That's it.
[02:09:40] Speaker A: That's the last episode.
[02:09:46] Speaker B: We still have one more.
[02:09:48] Speaker A: I know, but I'm gonna cry then, too.
[02:09:50] Speaker B: Series wrap up.
Oh, my God.
[02:09:53] Speaker A: That's gonna be really fun. I'm excited. And we have a lot of people that have sent in some stuff, and it's gonna be fun to kind of talk about, like, what we would have wanted to see in a season six and. Yeah, yeah, all that stuff. But, yeah, this is, like, the last full episode that we.
[02:10:08] Speaker B: I know.
[02:10:09] Speaker A: Have the Buffy verse. I've literally officially now covered every single episode in the book.
[02:10:13] Speaker B: You have, like, very thoroughly. How does it feel?
[02:10:16] Speaker A: Very thoroughly.
[02:10:18] Speaker B: How does it feel, man?
[02:10:21] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't remember what my life is like. We'll talk about it.
[02:10:24] Speaker B: What am I gonna talk about it next week?
[02:10:26] Speaker A: I might have an existential crisis crisis.
[02:10:29] Speaker B: I'm gonna be like, what do I.
[02:10:30] Speaker A: Do with my life?
[02:10:31] Speaker B: Hey, we're gonna do something after this. Just.
[02:10:33] Speaker A: We are. Which I'm so glad. Yeah, I'm so glad we are, because I'm just.
I'm gonna be calling you in, like, a month and being like, okay, Leia.
[02:10:42] Speaker B: You want to record? No, I need. I need to get on and record us talking.
[02:10:47] Speaker A: We should just, like, sometime just, like, do that just for fun.
[02:10:50] Speaker B: But.
[02:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
All right, well, we have one more episode that we'll be talking about the series, the season, and your guys's thoughts and questions and things that you sent in. And. Yeah, it's gonna be really fun. I'm excited about it. And, yeah, that. That's all, folks.
Bye, folks.
[02:11:09] Speaker B: Good night.
[02:11:12] Speaker A: Good night, folks. Oh, no. Let's sleep on a higher note than that. Yeah. We have another episode, guys. We will be back, but until then, too painful. And thank you for listening, and we'll see you guys next time.
[02:11:25] Speaker B: Bye, me.
[02:11:27] Speaker A: Thanks so much for listening to Investigating Angel. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Angel Podcast, and you can email us at investigatingangelpodcastmail. Com.
