Show Notes
Cordelia must help Angel rediscover his conviction to be a hero; security is sent to keep an eye on Eve, but it is her partner who is plotting Angel's demise.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating angel, an angel rewatch.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Podcast where we analyze each episode of angel the series with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leia and Sarah.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: And if you love angel, this is the podcast for you.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Angel. Today we're Talking about season five, episode 12. You're welcome. Written and directed by Dave Fury, with the exception of Joss wrote the final scene between Charisma and David, or I guess I should say Cordelia and Angel. And then Stephen tonight wrote the fight sequence, which I don't know why they had him write the fight. Fight sequence, but yeah. And then it aired February 4, 2, 2004. And this is actually the hundredth episode of the series, which is really, really bizarre. I was thinking about it because the gift on Buffy was the hundredth episode, and for some reason, it feels like there's more episodes of Buffy than there are of Angel. I don't know.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Well, because season one of Buffy was shorter.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: Oh, well, that should make me feel the opposite. I don't know why, but that's true. Yeah, I'm sure you've. Because you feel like it's been longer.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: The hundredth episode is a.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: The.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Like, the final episode of season five. Maybe that's why it feels like it's longer. This is like, halfway through.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Halfway through. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Yeah. But. All right, thoughts, Leia, on the episode whale.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Whale, the 100th episode.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: I don't know. I feel like this is a fan favorite episode. I feel like it is, like, for good reason, obviously.
I don't know. I thought it was okay.
I think if you're a huge fan of Cordelia, you're gonna love this episode. As you know, I'm not a huge fan of Cordelia.
Like, I just. I haven't been sitting here waiting for Cordelia's return. So there's a lot in this episode that just, like, doesn't work for me just in terms of, like, the plot of the episode, not necessarily the scenes with the characters. I think that's kind of what the point of the episode is, the scenes with the characters. Right. It's more character stuff, but it's like the stuff that's going on in the background. Like, the. What is it, like, the B plot or the A plot?
The B plot of the episode is just, like, really cheesy. Like, I just found this episode to be a little bit cheesy. The dialogue was cheesy. There's just things that didn't work for me in terms of, like, quality of the episode. But I think, like I said, if you're a huge Cordelia fan, I can see why this would be a fan favorite episode for, like, the character interactions and just having her back in the fold. And like, I think she definitely needed closure. So I think this episode needed to happen. I just wish that it had happened a little bit differently. And I mean, we can talk about it when we get to those scenes, but yeah, I mean, it was okay.
Not a fave. It was good to see Cordelia get some closure, although I didn't find it satisfying. I'm sure others do. I think it just depends on how you feel about Cordelia. So.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. What did you think?
[00:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much the same. I.
I know this is like, it's like, what, the second highest rated angel episode on IMDb or something like that? Like, people really, really love this episode. And it was. It was nice to see Cordelia not possessed and Cordelia more like the old Cordelia that we knew.
Not like Saint Cordelia. Well, 100% Saint Cordelia in season three and not possessed Cordelian season four. I was really thankful for that. For those who are fans of the show, I was thankful for Charisma to get closure on her character because that would have really, really sucked to have ended with your character in a coma after the atrocity of everything that happened to her in season four. So, like, I think it's satisfying in that regard. But everything else you said, I. I 100% agree with. It's just, it was hard for me to buy into a lot of the character arcs and changes and stuff. And it was even like, well, you know, you and I were talking about this how like Lindsay suddenly being whooshed up by the senior partners and things like that. Like, it felt so anti climactic. So I was like, really bummed that there were several plot points that they've been building up to, and all of a sudden it just felt like everything just closed very neatly. But I think I need to remember that the network had specifically requested that this episode be a standalone because it was the hundredth episode and also because I think bringing Cordelia back and stuff.
So when you kind of look at it as a standalone, you can kind of look past a lot of that stuff also, because if you are a fan of Cordelia, then this is going to be a huge one for you. But like you said, I. I'm not a huge Cordelia fan, so I think I saw the flaws of the episode and the plot in particular.
A lot more. And so it just made it a little. I was a little bored. I know that sounds so callous, but I was a little bored. I was a little confused, and I didn't really buy a lot of the big moments. The. The final scene was really touching.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: The final scene is probably, like, my favorite scene, for sure. I thought it was really well done. Although, like, I have issues with, like, how angel gets to that point, but we can talk about it when we get there. Yeah, it's like, this is, like, the type of episode where, like, I wish that I liked it more because, like, I feel bad to not like it.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I feel bad that I don't like it, but.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: But I think that a lot of that is simply just due to just not caring as much about Cordelia as a lot of other people do.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: And that's okay. I think there's some episodes of, like, season one or two that we really loved because it's very angel centric, that maybe the plot is not necessarily that good, but we're like, oh, I just love it because, you know, it's angel and he's his most Angel. And I think a lot of people love this episode.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: I think this episode was definitely, like. And I said this. We were talking about this on our discord. But this is very much like a fan service episode.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: I think. Along with obviously wrapping up her story. But it feels more like fan service. It. Like, it kind of sticks out like a sore thumb to me in the season.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: But I also, like, that's not to say that fan service is bad. I'm just like, we're not the fans that it's servicing.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Right. So it's a little bit harder for us.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And again, that's not to say that fan service is a bad thing because it's a TV show and, like, obviously they're making it for the fans.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: But we're just, like, not the target audience.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Nope.
There's a later episode that is completely fan service and also a fan kind of criticizing, too, that we are.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Probably more the target audience for that one.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, we're definitely the target audience for that one.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: But. All right, so obviously there's some juicy stuff behind the scenes. So this is. This episode was originally intended for. For Sarah Michelle Geller as Buffy Summers to come back and appear. And I feel like we talked about how last episode, it felt like a great setup for her character to come back after everything with Andrew and Dana.
And it was kind of. It was supposed to IMDb says supposed to focus on the rivalry between angel and Spike and their feelings for Buffy. I don't know how true that is, but I think it probably would have focused a little bit more on Buffy kind of taking on maybe the role of Cordelia in this episode and kind of being like, what are you doing, Angel? And kind of putting him on his path. But Sarah Michelle Geller, her aunt, I guess, died and was. She was not able to come because of that. And instead they asked Charisma Carpenter to return. And writer and director David Fury explains that since we couldn't get Sarah, the episode was instead written by Cordelia Chase. He adds, this turned out to be a godsend because Charisma was fantastic. Joss Whedon says He used the 100th episode to reinforce the mission statement of the show as well as assess where the characters are now compared to how they began. Whedon explains, this episode presents an ideal opportunity to, through Cordelia, who was there at the beginning, ask of angel, where are you now? What were you when you started? Or where were you when you started and where are you now? And how do you feel about that? This episode, written as a standalone as per the network's request, also sets up a critical plot thread for the season arc that will begin to reveal itself towards the end of the season. That's what Whedon says.
And we were talking about this before, too. This is the first time the Angel Investigations team sees Cordelia as herself since tomorrow, when she left to a higher dimension that is the season three finale. She returns amnesiac in slouching towards Bethlehem, then possessed by Jasmine and spin the bottle, and then fell into a coma and inside out. But then what? Like, blew my mind even more. And I think I remember you talking about it when we covered the episode. But Wesley last saw Cordelia as herself in couplet. Yeah, that's so long ago.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: It's almost like two full seasons long ago. Yeah, she really hasn't been around for a really long time.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: As herself, obviously.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Charisma. Carpenter says the hundredth episode was a momentous time to have Cordelia die, calling it bittersweet. A love letter to Cordelia and the story one of the sweetest they'd ever told. David Fury agrees, saying, it's a beautiful farewell to Charisma for the series and it gives Charisma Charisma send off that was respectful to her and Cordelia Chase. I was very proud to have my name on it.
So a bit of controversy. So Charisma says that she was Satisfied the way her character left the show, as she feels Cordelia's story had been fully resolved. And Joss Whedon agreed, saying, in seven years, we'd sort of run through our course of the character and didn't want to start just doing hollow riffs on what we'd done.
But slayers and vampires, which goes like the interviewers went and interviewed people after the show had been done. I think a couple years or so. I don't know exactly when this was published, but they were talking about this episode. And then also Charisma's decision or not decision to leave the show. And I thought it would be interesting to kind of talk about that. We kind of hinted at some of that stuff at the beginning of this season, but I wanted to talk about it here. So Joss Whedon says Cordelia's situation was a little bit hurt call because Charisma had just had a baby and was living the family life. Her. Her call to leave, basically. Plus, you don't need visions when you've got assistants saying B story on line one. Then Charisma Carpenter says, I did not leave the show, despite many people's suspicions, to raise my child. I'm the type of person that I need to work. I need to work. My work is super fulfilling to me. Yes, I wanted to be a mother. Yes, I am so grateful I have a child, but I love what I do. I would not be happy just being a mom, and I would not be happy just being an actress. Those things are beautiful things and I think ultimately bring depth to me as a person and therefore to my work. Unfortunately, it just didn't work that way with Angel. The coma was a devastating way to go. And the fans love her, especially when Doyle passes the visions onto her and she grows her character, gets multi dimensional, multifaceted, and gets a heart and gains perspective and is really a part of the team. And then to find out, gosh, what do we do with the character, it's just devastating. Of my career Angels, probably the greatest reward and the most disappointing thing all at once. But I know how special the show was. So we talked about this at the end of last season, where the writers were kind of like, we felt like Cordelia had come to a place where we didn't have anything else to explore with her character. We didn't really know if there was anything else. And so Charisma doesn't agree with that, obviously.
Ben Edlund says the coma may have come about due to some difficulties in what to do with Cordelia after She had given birth to Jasmine. And what role to give this person, because the psychological truth of that person is really hard to navigate. Which would make sense. Like, you and I talked about that. Like, she technically wasn't doing those things. So how do we discuss that?
She had sex with Angel's son, got pregnant, gave birth to their child, a goddess. It's a lot to deal with. So it was kind of. It was a kind of breakdown. This happens sometimes when a character in a narrative suffers a meta. Narrative breakdown of some kind. That may have been the strategy underlying Cordelia, leading her up to a certain point, and there was no exit strategy past that. A lot of times when you have a character go into a sustained coma, something's not working for that character actor. And then Charisma says, honestly, I thought I was coming back for season five. I found out when they had the upfronts that year, and journalists called me at home and said, why aren't you on the cast list? Ooh, that is. That is pretty crappy.
She says, it was just kind of shitty, but not really a mystery. Look, it was a very complicated relationship in which I definitely played a part, and there's no easy way to go about it. Am I bummed that it went the way it did? Totally. Could it have been done differently? Probably. But that's the way it is. That's the way it happened, and that's the way it went down. And then there's quotes from, like, David Fury, who's talking about how there was a lot of anger about Charisma, and he seems like he's talking about from, like, Joss and a lot of the writers and people behind scenes. And he says, I think probably mainly from Joss. It felt a little bit like we were all working our asses off to keep these people employed. And it's like, you have to take that into consideration before you make any live choices. You just do. And you have to be much more vocal about it. If something's happened. If something happens and you tell them early on or whatever the thing is, that's fine, fine. But it's the idea of just kind of showing up and, boom, I've got tattoos. Or, boom, I cut my hair in the middle of an episode, which I think Sarah did. It's like, wait a minute. Now you're just with us. You're making it so hard to finish this episode because you're changing it. I do want to point out Sarah Michelle Geller got permission to do that, so just need it back. Back up. My girl Because I covered that episode, and she had. They built that into the episode, and she had gotten permission, so it makes sense. Just, you know. But he says, oh, yeah, there's a attitude of it's my life and I can do anything I want to. Well, that's not great. Again, I don't know the specifics to Charisma circumstances. I have a lovely relationship with her. I just know there was a lot of residual anger about what happened. So, yes, they decided to write her out of the show. But I couldn't be more thrilled to be the one to bring her back for your welcome. And then he talks about how she was really great. It was a nice little reunion. There was no bitterness between them. And he says, you got to give it up for her. Whatever the anchor was, it was all water under the bridge. She definitely just deserved a better goodbye. Glad we were able to do that. And Charisma says that coming back was complicated and that she did not want to do it. And originally, I guess, she passed on the role and then thought about it and decided to come back. Her stipulations were she wanted to be paid more because she found out she was the lowest paid actress, I think, on television at the time or on the CW and wanted to be paid more, which she felt she was deserved. And then she wanted to make sure that Cordelia didn't die. And so she was talking about how she was working on the show called Mismatch with Alicia Silverstone, and on the soundstage, the same one that Buffy used to shoot on. David Fury came to see her in her trailer to talk to her about it. And she said she was pretty angry with the way things were, had no desire to give the show any more than she'd already given. And then she was like, hang on. Like, I need to do this for the fans.
And then also I need that kind of closure to move on. So. So then she says, you know, I want the money, and I want to make sure Cordelia doesn't die. So she says, I signed the contract. And then David says, I have to tell you something. We're going to kill Cordelia.
And I'm like, of course you're doing this after I sign the contract. But he goes, hold on. Just hear it out. He tells me how she dies, and I'm in tears now for a completely different reason, which is that it was really well told and beautiful. That changed everything. I came to set. Joss sent me a really nice bouquet of flowers and a beautiful note, which I have framed in my room. It basically said, I think it'll be one of the sweetest stories you've ever told. Thanks for coming and you're welcome. Which is a play on words with the title of the episode. And it was a really beautiful episode. So dying.
That's just sucky. That's just so sucky all around.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Just sounds like a bunch of people that don't know how to communicate with each other.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Not charisma.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: I'm talking about, like, no, Joss and David and. Yeah, but it also was, like, sneaky. Like, they wanted to get her back, so they just, like, didn't tell her. And I am glad that she felt like it was good closure. And I know she probably was like, she didn't want Cordelia to die because she always wanted to have that in. But, yeah, I. I still think that they did a really good job of giving her an homage and closing it off. But, yeah. So. All right, well, the last thing I have, I promise, before we jump into the episode. So normally this would be the part where I go critically touched. Says, I don't have critically touched. I have our own resident critically touched, which is in the form of Jim. So, yes, I wanted to read Jim. He wrote me up a whole little essay thing. I'm not going to read the whole essay, but I just. I appreciate Jim's perspective when it comes to Cordelia. He obviously loves her far more than we do and appreciates her in a way that I appreciate, because I think he's been able to help, like, kind of explain as a. As a fan, as someone who loves Cordelian and sees a different aspect of her. I don't know. It's just been very refreshing. So I wanted to include his thoughts because I actually thought there was some great stuff. So. He says. He talks about how Cordelia, in all her iterations, represents confidence and conviction in herself, her perspective and her mission. And that has been lacking from the team since the real Cordelia left in Season three. To him, that is her greatest asset and her greatest flaw. This makes her the fiercest advocate for the mission and the Powers, but also causes her to see things largely from her own perspective because she thinks she's always right and susceptible to a blind following and manipulation if she is so convicted that the Powers affirm her purpose. He goes on to say that her conviction has always created action or momentum in the gang, even if it was in the wrong direction. He talks about her advice to Wes, Fred and Gun in Waiting in the Wings and then in Double or Nothing, that conviction is necessary in order to be effective in the battle between good and evil because it contrasts paralysis by uncertainty, which we talked a lot about that with Lindsay in season one and kind of how that mirrors angel and the gang now in season five. He then compared Cordelia to King Lear's Princess Cordelia from Shakespeare, known for her truth telling. In an unfortunate way, Cordelia's journey ends up as a parallel to the literary figure in which, while they are present at the start of both stories, both Cordelias exit the narrative and become rendered as a saintly mother figure whose sole purpose is to redeem both titular characters and then die. King Lears. Cordelia can be criticized as becoming a symbol of virtue rather than a fully developed character, which can lead to critiques of her depth and agency. And so then he closes out by saying two things can be true of Cordelia's story. She can be respected as a woman who holds on to her convictions even if they kill her. And she can also be read as a woman who gave up everything she is. She is in service of a man and cosmic forces that don't care about her, which can be foolish. You're welcome. After all, doesn't spend time delving into Courtney's trauma due to the time constraints, but what she thinks of Angel. It is in character for pragmatic Cordy to not to not reflect and just move forward, but it speaks volumes of how the show treats women. Ultimately, Cordelia's legacy is a complicated one, but I'm very thankful that you're welcome. Gives viewers closure that respects rather than ignores her history.
Yeah, well said, Jim. And I just appreciate how he's balanced and kind of able to see Cordelia's flaws and also her strengths and how they both. Like, it's two signs to the same point in a lot of ways. And it's something that I never really thought about a lot because I tend to see more of her flaws. And it just. It makes me sad because I really do think that there was so much more they could have done with Cordelia if they had thought through it a little bit more. Yeah. Seasons ago.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: I would be like, really curious to hear from people who do love Cordelia and who I guess were looking forward to this return. Like, what. What do you think of it? You know, like, is it satisfying to you, the end to her story? Is this episode satisfying? Because I've heard a lot of mixed reviews like, yes, this is a fan favorite episode. But I've also seen from Cordelia fans that this is not really a satisfying Conclusion. But they'll take it because it is a conclusion rather than just leaving her in a coma.
It's definitely, like, I have seen both perspectives, but I'd be really curious, like, what. What people think, you know?
[00:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would. I would suspect that it's unsatisfying because Cordelia dies after a whole season of basically just not being here.
Which I can't say is not fair. Like, I would feel that way too, if it was my favorite character as well. But. Yeah. So.
All right. Yeah. Let's talk about the episode.
So we start off in a basement apartment. There's a dark room lit only by red and white candles. And we hear, like, lo. Banging. We see, like, a cross on the table. Some sort of, like, ritual. And then Angel, Fred, Wes and Gun come in with flashlights. And Fred has, like, this handheld device where she's tracking someone. She talks about picking up trace signatures. And then we look over and we see a bunch of dead nuns on the floor with their throat slit. I was like, oh, no. Angelus is back.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Angelus. The fish inside of angel is just swimming around really fast right now.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Nuns, nuns, nuns, nuns, nuns. He's got, like, a little party. The disco ball.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: His little aquarium. His little prison aquarium.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Just got the reference. That's hilarious.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: I just remembered it because I literally edited Sole Purpose, like, the day before yesterday.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: We were talking about a little cloudy. Need to flush it. That's so funny.
I like how Fred's like, oh, God. And Wesley's like, I think God is out at the moment. So they're looking for this person called Greenway. And they think that he's jumping dimensions and he's a Wolfram and Heart client. And Angel's just like, I've had enough. He's like. And I think it's probably something about the nuns too. He's like, this is a little too close to what I did. Like, that's, like, triggered him. He was like, get me out of here. Get me out of here.
But he's like, of course our. Our client would be evil. And he goes, I just can't do this anymore. And Gun's like, what? And he's like, any of this living with it, running Wolfram and Hart. He throws up his hands. He goes, I quit.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Damn. And you know what?
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Just.
[00:22:47] Speaker B: Let's just go back to the last episode real quick to Damage. Okay. I just feel like they set it up so well. I think Andrew telling Angel that Buffy doesn't trust him anymore literally pushes him over the edge.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's A surprise.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So it's like I always said, this episode should have been Buffy, but Cordelia should have gotten another episode closer to the finale.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: I just think that would have made so much more sense in terms of, like, what they were setting up from the last episode.
Because you can see here that it's been how many? 12 episodes and, like, angel has reached his breaking point. And, like, why has angel reached his breaking point? Because he's like, shit, Buffy doesn't trust me now.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's really what it feels like. We literally ended the last episode, like, a scene after that. And then this is the first scene for this one. Like, that's the natural conclusion, you know?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. And we'll talk about, like, my biggest gripe with this episode is, like, I don't understand how angel gets to the conclusion at the end of the episode. Because I think Cordelia's presence and Lindsay's presence and everything that happens would just push him further away from Wolfram at heart. Yeah, that's my big thing. But, yeah, maybe. Maybe we'll. We'll find a puzzle piece as we keep going.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Maybe we'll find it along the way.
[00:24:06] Speaker A: The friends we make along the way. The friends we make along the nuns, though. Not the nuns.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: Angel's reasons are the friends we make along the way.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: I guess we'll find out. Oh, my gosh.
All right, so then we. I do like, the, like, flashy flash scene. All of a sudden, we jump to a hospital scene and we get images of symbols painted on Eve's doorway. That. Images of symbols tattooed on Doyle's sexy chest. Images of angel doubling over in pain. And then inside the hospital room, Cordelia gasps as she's thrust into consciousness by a vision. And I was like, ooh.
There was absolutely, like, a. No, like, nothing that would imply that this was gonna happen. And I was like, oh, is this the first time I watched this? I was, like, shocked. I was like, I thought the show forgot about her. What?
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah, but the promos, like, promote this.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: I didn't watch the promos, Leia.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: The Harm's Way promo says nothing about Harmony or the episode of Harm's Way they have to put in there. And finally, the hundredth episode, Cordelia Returns. That's a scene of her, like, waking up like a mummy.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Like, it's on Potter.
Okay. Anyway, so then back in Angel's office, he's talking to Fred, Gunn, Wesley and Lauren. He's like, I'm not talking about this anymore. I'm resigning. And Lauren's like, wow, this seems like a. A great topic to discuss. And then Wesley's like, well, that was really tragic, which happened last night. It's a terrible setback. But. And then Angel's like, he's gentle parenting back Wes. It's status quo. He's. I think it's more just making excuses. And he's like, evil wins because instead of just wiping it out, we negotiate with it or worse, for it. Fred's like, we're doing the best we can. Angel's like, it's not you guys. It's that we shouldn't be doing this job in the first place. Place. Or I shouldn't. And then Gun is like, I. I think we're all just, you know, having a really hard time right now. But also, if we were to actually say bye bye, what do you think would happen? Like, do you think the senior partners are just going to let us breeze out the front door? Which I think this is a kind of subtle, like, nod to the end of the episode when Lindsay goes and finds that giant machine. Like, basically, you can't leave angel because the senior partners will activate whatever monster is in that machine and kill you.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: How fucking convenient.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, but I think how convenient. Maybe that that's what. That's what Angel's decision is at the end. He sees the monster and goes, wow. Yeah. Mission great.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Woo.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Let's do this.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: When has angel ever been scared of monsters? Come on.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: Now he is.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: Try harder.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Try harder. And kicked his butt.
[00:26:49] Speaker B: And he's like, oh, my God. Lindsay was a joke in this episode. A clown.
Clown emoji.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: So funny because Christian Cain, I don't think he liked his appearance in this episode, but we'll talk about that in a minute.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Oh, you have a quote.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: I do have a quote.
Yeah. So then Fred's like, are we trapped here? Gun's like, I think we should just, you know, like, we all knew what we were getting ourselves into. Like, let's not pretend that this was some lease with an option to buy an angel goes, gun. You really think they won't let us out? Or is that you just. You don't want to leave? And I was like, yes. Ask him these questions. And guns like, all right, fine, you got me. Like, maybe I don't, but it's because I believe in what we're doing. We made the right call again. This is setting up Angel's decision at the very end. It's. He believes in what they're doing and so he's like, yes, we made the right call. We need to keep going.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: But it's bruh.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Because Cordelia gave him conviction. Conviction is just our buzzword. It's corruption warrior champion conviction. He has special Angel. He's.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Because he's when and how.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: He beats the bad guys.
He beats the bad guys.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: I just feel like. I just feel like, what are the elements of a story of like, an essay?
[00:28:03] Speaker A: How many words can I, like, throw in here to trigger you?
[00:28:06] Speaker B: No, like.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Like you have special to be an Angel. Corruption. Moira Angel.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Like, you have to have like a introduction, a body, a conclusion. But then you have to do, like, the when.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Where's the thesis statement?
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Where's the where' the trajectory here?
Where's the story?
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to make it make sense, but it's not.
It's like when you're doing a puzzle and you just go, yeah, that, that fits. That works. And it, like, clearly does not.
All right, so then Angel's like, well, you know, I think that that legal brain upgrade that they gave you has got nothing to do with it. And Gun's like, well, we all got something out of this. Which he's not wrong. Because Connor having his memory wipe and everyone else's as well and being able to start over is what angel got out of it. So then the telephone rings and we all know what that means.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: He got a phone call.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: It's his destiny calling.
It's the mission. It's the connection. The connection between the Powers that Be an angel is waking back up again. It's significant. That's why at the very end that angel gets a phone call telling him that Cordelia is dead. Yeah. Anyway, so he finds out that Cordelia is awake. Him and Wes head to the hospital room and Cordelia, they see this, like, girl or this person laying in a hospital bed. We don't see their face. And Cordelia comes out of the bathroom and then closes the curtain so we can't see it, but it's definitely the actual Cordelia. And then she gives them both big hugs. And Wesley says, it's extraordinary. You look, I don't want to say really hot. And I love the fact that, like, it's implied that Cordelia is like some sort of astral projecting or something. Because it's possible that this supports Skip's claim and birthday, that astral bodies take on idealized versions of themselves. And I think that kind of explains a little bit of why Cordelia does seem so idealized in this episode and why the episode goes the way it does.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Because, like, to me, she doesn't feel like old Cordelia, but she also doesn't feel like Saint Cordelia. Like, yeah, she's something, almost like something different. And it's not a mixture of both. Like, I don't think it's a mixture of both. It's almost like. Like you said, it's like an idealized version of Cordelia. She's almost like a. Like a. I hate to say it, but like a caricature of herself. She's like, yeah, I don't know.
[00:30:31] Speaker A: That's how I felt. Because some of the lines that she said are very Cordelia esque, but I didn't feel the conviction behind them.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I. I felt the same way, honestly. And I don't know if that's because we haven't seen her in so long as herself. Like, even in season three, she wasn't like this, you know? So I wonder if it was why she feels like a sore thumb sticking out in this episode.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Everything was just, like, falling into place, too. It was like, bam, this. Oh, she picked the right button.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: Boom.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: She did. It was just like. It was so fairy tale esque, where you were like, of course she was gonna win and stuff. I. I think that's why the ending scene is more impactful to me because everything's going so freaking well. And you're like, oh, Cordelia's back. And then, boom. No, she actually has to leave. You're like, oh, okay.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: So then she's like, you know, mystical coma. You know, if you can't stand the horror of a higher power hijacking your mind and body so that it can give birth to itself, I really recommend, like, we get that little, like, nod that she kind of remembers what happened. Angel's like, you remember? And she's like, oh, yeah, I remember everything.
And then she goes, is everybody all right? And talks about how she doesn't really want to go back to the hotel yet. And they're like, oh, let's go shopping and get some stuff. And you can tell Wesley and Angel, like, don't really want to have to tell her. Like, they're trying to put off having to tell her about everything that has happened with Wolfram and Hart.
And so then we cut to the lobby, and angel and Wes step out with Cordelia, who's now dressed. And she's just like, I can't do this. And they're like, it's okay. Like, it's just an office. And she sees Sebastian's pet, who's apparently been, like, hiding out in the bathroom. Or like, oh, he's been hiding out one of the copiers, eating the. Or drinking the toner since. Life of the party.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: So now Sebastus is drinking demon's blood mixed with toner.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: Ew.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: So gross.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: So gross. So then Angel's like, hey, you want to see my office? He takes her in, and she sees Lauren. And then, like, kind of catches up with everybody with Fred. And then she goes, well, where's Connor? And Gun's like, who? And then she starts to say, oh, you know, Connor, angel, where's your son? But then Harmony comes in and interrupts.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: And this scene was really funny. Okay? Her reunion with everyone else felt really, like, I don't know, very stiff, not very emotionally touching like you would think it would be because they were all friends. But I enjoyed her reunion with Harmony so much. Like, her face when she's like, ah.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: She's like, she's gonna kill me again. She's gonna attack me.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: Oh, my God, what is she doing here? The way Harmony just, like, attacks her and jumps on her and she's like, so, how was the coma?
[00:33:16] Speaker A: And then Angel's like, she's. She's my secretary. And Cordelia's like, oh, my gosh, put.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Some respect on Harmony's name.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: She's a great secretary.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: And, yeah, I say, better than you were in season one. Cordelia.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Cordelia didn't know how to type. Could barely file things, would leave the office in the middle of the day. We've never seen Harmony do that. Okay.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Harmony does a good job. Job.
[00:33:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
So then everybody takes off, and then it's just Cordelia and Angel. And he's like, look, I know there's a lot to take in, a lot of changes, but I promise things here are working out. And Cordelia is skeptical, and he's like, yeah, with these resources, there's nothing we can't do known we can't save. Kind of like parroting what Gun said earlier. And Cordelia says, except maybe yourself. And then she says, I had a vision from the. You know what to be. That's what woke me up. Up. And he says, you know. Or then she says, you know something? When higher power send you coma visions, you better pay attention. He says, what did you see? And she says, you in trouble. Vague as always. Also these weird symbols, glyphs, I guess, on a wall and on flesh, a tattoo. And then she says, there's a woman behind you. And then we see that there's Eve, this little stinker man. She walks right out of the elevator and it's like, oh, you weren't home, so I didn't think you'd mind me using your private elevator. And I was like, yeah. And then he's like, I mind you breathing. Get out. And I was like, like, yes, as you should. But then the little stinker just is like, yeah, sure. Except I'm here to convey the partner's concern a little bit. Issue of you letting a client skip out of our dimension. Dead nuns we can deal with. But the firm's out 10 million in bail costs. And then she walks.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: 10 million?
[00:34:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Really? Then she walks up to Cordelia and is like, who's your friend? Angel? And then Cordelia.
I know so many people love this moment. I just found it so cringy. And she's like, I'm Cordelia Chase. And then Eve is like, oh, my name is in. Cordelia's like, I didn't ask. And then she goes and walks next to Angel. And then, of course, Eve has to, like, you know, twist the knife a little bit. And she's like, oh, yeah. Angel talked a lot about you at first.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Which is funny because we did not hear him talk about Cordelia at all.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: Like, did in the first episode.
[00:35:28] Speaker A: Yeah, but I. Yeah. I don't know, man.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: For, I don't know, three seconds, it.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: Was, like, one line and that was it. Yeah. And so then she talks about how they slept together at the Halloween party. Cordelia is like, oh, my gosh, I thought Darla was rock bottom. And then angel tries to explain how it was a mystical thing. Eve's like, my work here is done. She's like, we'll talk business later. And honestly, okay, this was one of the cringiest scenes, this whole interaction for me, the whole episode. Because even angel don't have chemistry. I don't think Cordelia and Angel have chemistry. And even Cordelia don't have chemistry. So it was just like, three people talking and reciting lines to each other. It just felt weird. I just don't.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: If it was Lila, it would have been completely different.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Could you imagine Lila zapping. The electricity would be zapped.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: Lila has chemistry with angel and she has chemistry with Cordelia.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: And just brought it all together.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: But it's like, whenever. Even angel, like, have, like, exchange barbs back and forth with each other. It's literally like chemistry lists. And they're just speaking to each other. He's like, I'll let you walk out of here with your Head still attached to your body. And then he's like, harmony, I want security keeping tabs on Eve while she's in the building. And we're like, okay.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: And he says that every episode. And nobody ever knows where the hell this lady is.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: It's like, him just constantly threatening.
And she's like, okay, are you really gonna do anything to me?
[00:36:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Milo's like, sure. See you next week for our usual threats.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Banter.
Yeah, exactly.
So Cordelia's like, oh, my gosh. That's the kind of person you do business with. You may deal with the devil. And Angel's like, no, I haven't. And then all of a sudden, actual devil's like, hey, we gonna do our, like, badminton later at racquetballs? What he says. And then he walks away, you see? Has, like, a tail and horns and everything.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: This was also hella cringy.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: It just was like. Like, just so on the nose. So then we're in Spike's apartment. Even Spike felt weird to me this episode. I don't know, maybe I'm just being a hater, but he's, like, on his couch playing video games in the dark. And apparently David Fury used a tight camera angle for this because Spike's apartment scene is the exact same set that was used for the opening teaser where the nuns were all killed.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:37:41] Speaker A: So apparently the budget is not budgeting.
Yeah, he says everything is a bit contained. The reason is, if I turned around, that's where they found the dead nuns.
So there's that. All right, so Spike is just raging at the game, and then Doyle slash Lindsay comes in.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: See, I told you. He's in his teenage phase. This is the teenage years now.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: He's doing rehab.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: He's an angry. He's an angry teenager.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: I'm just a teenager. Get out.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: He's gonna start screaming, greed.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Get out. Get out. Get out.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: He's gonna start screaming that soon? Not that he hasn't already, like, let's be honest.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Yeah, in so many words.
Lindsay comes in. He's like, is that any way to talk to your benefactor? And he's like, you haven't been out in the field lately. Spike's like, well, I got my bloody hands hacked off by a deranged slayer that you sent me. After which I like that little continuity. Like, oh, hey, that's how Lindsay learned. Or not Lindsay. Spike learned about Dana and everything. Which obviously Lindsay got that.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: I wonder how long it's been because his. He has, like, full function in his hands again. But I wonder if they Also use some, like, mystical way to heal him.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he did also say at the end of damage that he'll be able to feel his hands after all the pain meds wear off. So, yeah, doom to do.
So then Lindsay's like, oh, yeah, sorry about that. You can, you know, now you can play video games. Your hands are all better. And then Lindsay's like, oh, yeah, you know, I got my hand cut off a few years back. Line of duty. So believe me when I tell you, I can feel your pain. And Spike grabs a beer and is like, well, half of it anyway, I'll give you that.
Guys, a hand being hacked off is a hand being hacked off, right? We don't need to sit here and compare.
And Lindsay's like, don't forget, you have a job to do. The Powers that Be are counting on their champion. So are all the other helpless people. And Spike's like, I don't need a pep talk. I already plan on going out. You just get one of your visions and tell me when and where Lindsay's agreeing to that. When his cell phone rings and it's even, she's like, hey, we've got a big problem. Cordelia Chase is awake. And while she's doing this, Spike gets so livid and angry with the television and the video game, he's over there, like, whacking it and, like, hitting it and everything. He's like, come on.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: Such a hot, stupid plumber.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: And Lindsay's over there, like, excellent, perfect.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: He's like, I can't wait to get rid of this idiot.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: He's like, oh, good, we can escalate everything. Thank God.
So then back, like, it's, like, implied that it's like, later that day, angel goes off his private elevator into his apartment, and Cordelia is in there watching the video of the promotional spot that she had shot of Doyle back in the early days of season one. And we hear, sweet scene. This was so sweet. We hear Doyle saying, if you need help, then look no further. Angel Investigations is the best. Our rats are low. And we hear Cordelia say, rates. And then he says, our rates are low, but our standards are high. When the chips are down and you're at the end of your rope, you need someone that you can count on. And that's what you'll find here. Someone who will go all the way. He'll protect you no matter what. So don't lose hope.
Which, you know, she knows that she has to die, so she's probably looking at that not only to see Doyle, but Also to give herself some courage and some hope, which I really loved. Yeah, I did. I did have a quick flashback and was like, he better check for peanut butter on the bed. And, you know, torn up flooring in the corner.
You never know. Cornelius.
[00:41:09] Speaker B: She just took a butter knife to his penthouse flooring.
[00:41:13] Speaker A: She's like, there's got to be hardwood underneath here. It's like, lady, this penthouse is obsession with hardwood. She starts, like, ripping up the. Like, the. What was it? The.
The wallpaper.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: In his last apartment.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: Yeah. In birthday. In the birthday verse. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. But this scene is, like, so sad because if you, like, watch the. If you've watched the episode and you already know that she's dead. Like, you could pick up on so many things that hint that she is dead. And this is one of the scenes where she's like, first soldier down. And, like, Doyle did all he could to make sure you kept fighting. I get that now. Like, she's. The reason I like the scene so much is this particular part of the scene where she's watching Doyle. Because I feel like the next episode, I mean, it's fine. It's something that they have to do. But just this particular scene, I feel like the episode focuses so much on Cordelia helping Angel, and you don't really get to experience or know about how Cordelia is feeling. And I think this single scene, it's like, this scene is for her. For her to get closure, for her to, like, I don't know, feel better about having to die. And, like, this. This being the last thing she does before she dies. And I love that it brings it back to Doyle because he's the one that changed it all for her, you know? And who knows what could have happened between them had he lived. So, yeah, I really like this scene.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: Well, and I think it's also a subtle reminder. Well, foreshadowing, and probably gives her the idea for what we learn about later on, too. But if that ain't vague enough for you guys.
So that she's like. She's like. Or, well, angel says, there's a reason I agree to take over. Wolfram and Heart reasons you don't understand. She's like, they seduced you with all their fancy facilities, manpower, this wonderful, wonderful view. And she's like, wait. She gets distracted. What was I saying? He's like, I've been seduced. She's like, that's right, pal. They dazzled you with shiny objects and beautiful things. There's no reason you could give me. And he Says Connor. Which, to be fair, I think angel did need to have someone to talk to about Connor because he couldn't talk to Eve about it. He couldn't talk to anybody else. And so I think talking to Cordelia about it is really good. So Cordelia says, where is Connor? Why did gun ask? Angel explains everything, saying that he's got no memories of them and no one else remembers him except free you and me and Eve. For some reason, Cordelia says, so not only did you strike a deal with your worst enemy to give up your son, you let them rape the memories of your friends who trust you.
I'm so glad she called it what it is.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah. But I mean, I just think, like.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: He very quickly, like, shuts her down, though, after. Yeah, he has his reasons. It's wrong. We all know it's wrong, but there was no other way. Like, I still stand by that.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: And did he have to erase everybody, like, everybody's memories, though?
[00:44:12] Speaker B: We don't know Connors. We don't know what the stipulations were, though. Like, we. We don't know that. And I think that would help a lot if we knew, like, was this the only way to do it? According to Lila, yeah. Was this something that he asked for? Like, we don't know that. So I'm happy to just not view it that way, even though it is a bad thing. I. I don't know. It's complicated, right?
[00:44:40] Speaker A: So he's like, we've done some great work here. And Cordelia's like, don't give me that everything's fine here company line. I'm not buying it. Neither are you and neither of the Powers that Be. Why do you think they woke me up, gave me that vision? They know you slipped the track and they want to help you, put you back on it. Which is so interesting that Cordelia is still very much all about the mission, the Powers that Be. After everything that happened in the previous season, it wasn't. Jasmine wasn't a current Power that Be, but she was at one point.
And the Powers that Be didn't step in to help at all.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: And that's the thing about. I see people say that this episode just proves how well Cordelia fits into the show and, like, how having her in this season would have been so beneficial. But I just think, like we said in the beginning, this is an idealized version of Cordelia that doesn't have to deal with any of. She's here for one episode, for, like, a few scenes, and she doesn't have to deal. And the episode doesn't ever deal with anything that has happened in the last year and a half with her.
And I think if she were to be on the show as a series regular, it wouldn't be this version of Cordelia. Like, they couldn't have it be this version of Cordelia, because I think that would be, one, a really low integrity way of storytelling. How are you gonna have a character without addressing any of the stuff that happened in the past? And two, how would they ever face any issues if Cordelia is just there to make everything better all the time? You know, like. And that's why I just think, like, this episode was good to have her back for one episode, but I just. I still can't envision Cordelia being a part of this season unless there was massive changes in how they write her.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: Well, it's just hard because they already don't have enough storyline, it seems, for Fred and Gun and barely for Wes. So it's like, how would Cordelia fit in? I mean, my guess is she would have been a lot of Harmony's role. Like, they would have brought Harmony back and they would have put Cordelia in that role maybe. But it seems like in a lot of ways, she's outgrown that role. Yeah.
Yeah. I was watching the interviews that you posted about Harmony and how Joss Whedon was saying that Harmony is a lot like season one. Cordelia just kind of in the fact that she's a little, like, naive, not quite as capable as Cordelia before she.
[00:46:59] Speaker B: Had the life experience.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Describes it.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: And it seems like Joss prefers it that way because he doesn't have to. Like, it's a very clear niche. Like, he knows what to do with that character, but then he isn't sure how to take them from that to anything else without going the cliche warrior route. Like, oh, she. She can pick up a sword, you know, she can fight things. I think he knows what to do with Fred because she's a sciency brainiac girl, but he doesn't know what to do with Cordelia, the girl who likes shopping and stuff, and how to, like, make her more multi dimensional and have her grow through that while retaining a lot of her Cordelia. Cordelia ness. But, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I don't really know how she would have fit in to this season because you would have had to have her address everything that happened in the previous season.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: It's too big not to. And they can, like, the other characters can ignore it because they have the memory wipe excuse, right? And they have the fact that Cordelia is not around. So they really don't have to talk about it. They genuinely don't. But it's like, if Cordelia was around, like, would her memories have gotten wiped? Also, like, what would have happened? You know? And I just. Like, what I'm trying to say is, I see a lot of people say that this version of Cordelia that's in this episode would have been a perfect addition to this season. But that's what I'm saying, is that if she were a part of this season on a regular basis, I don't think it's possible that she would be this version of Cordelia.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: She wouldn't, because it's the idealized version of Cordelia. You can't have her like that, or else she solves every problem, is absolutely perfect, has no flaws. And that's kind of how season three, Cordelia felt in a lot of ways. Even though she made mistakes and had poor judgment, she was pretty. Like, as the show presented her, she was Saint Cordelia. And it's like, you can't really do much with your character if they don't have any flaws or if they aren't allowed to get their hands dirty. Which is something we've been saying about Cordelia since season two, early season three. So, all right. So then angel talks about how Spike is now the new champion for the Powers that Be. And Cordelia's like, hang on. Spike who? And Angel's like, spike's got a soul now. He saved the world. He's out there on the streets, you know, helping the helpless. And Cordelia is like, what freaking bizarre world did I wake up in? And she's like, I naturally assumed you'd be lost without me, but this. And he goes, I am lost without you.
And then she says, you just forgot who you are. Angel says, remind me. She says, oh, no, that's for you to figure out. I can tell you who you were. A guy who always fought his hardest for what was right, even when he couldn't remember why, even when he was miserable, which was, let's face it, not a small portion of the time he did right. And that gave him something. A light, a glimmer. And that's the guy I fell in. And then she stops and says, that's the guy I knew. She says, I see him around here. If I see him around here, then maybe I'll start believing. And then angel says, let me know if you do. And then she Says, do you ever wonder. Do you ever think that if we'd met up that night, had a chance to. And he says, all the time. And she says, guess we missed our moment, huh? He says, maybe we were meant to. Or maybe people like us just don't get to have that. And then she says, angel, there are no people like us.
[00:50:13] Speaker B: Well, I mean, there are a ton of people like you, Cordelia.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: You know, vampire slayers. There's a whole show that's like, on vampire slayers. And now there's a lot of those.
[00:50:26] Speaker B: There's the people over at Buffy, like, all over Europe. There's like a shit ton of slayers now. Everybody in the Angel Investigations Team. Yeah, this is like classic arrogant Cordelia.
Although I do like the stuff that they say before because I feel like it's an acknowledgment of, hey. Like there was something there, but it's kind of like two ships passing each other in the night, and we just. Our paths, like, never crossed. And I like that. And then she had to go and say, there are no people like us. And, like, I don't know if that's supposed to be her being, like, there was a chance because there are no people that are like me and you.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: No one ever has to lose the love of their life. It's just us.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: At least.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: It's just.
It's such classic self important Cordelia, that she thinks that there's nobody, like, the two. Like, nobody in their lives or their friends have ever had to deal with personal loss because of the nature of their jobs.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: Meanwhile, Doyle just died.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Angel has had this very conversation before with Buffy. I just. It wasn't gonna work, Cordelia. I'm sorry.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: Leia's like, I hate to break it to you, Cordelia, but it's time to like.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: That line just always, like, rubbed me the wrong way because it's objectively untrue that there are no people like, people.
[00:51:43] Speaker A: That don't sacrifice their lives for the mission. People that see visions and then still have to sacrifice their lives to the mission. That sounds like a slayer. I know.
[00:51:52] Speaker B: Like, my God, Then we have a.
[00:51:55] Speaker A: Stupid scene between Eva and Lindsay. They're just sitting on their patio, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, backstory, blah, blah, superhero stuff.
[00:52:05] Speaker B: Just skip it. Who cares?
[00:52:06] Speaker A: I do. Like, Eve was like, it all comes back to angel, doesn't it? He's still the center of your universe. And Lindsay's like, oh, no, baby. Yeah, you are.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: No, baby.
He hates her. Like Lindsay.
He can't even pretend to like her presence. He can't even pretend to like being around her.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: Lindsay's like, hey, are you thinking of angel again? Aren't you? He's like, oh, definitely not. It's like, reminds me of season five, when Spike was having sex with Harmony. And she's like, what are you thinking about? And he's like, nothing but you, baby.
As he's, like, thinking about Buffy. So funny.
Sorry to make that comparison, but, you know, was right there.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: That's so accurate. Honestly.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: Yeah, he's like, there aren't any two.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: Characters, like, with less interest in each other. Like. Like, I. I can't. I just don't.
[00:53:00] Speaker A: Which is crazy because Christian Kane is really charismatic and really attractive, but Eve is not.
Yeah.
Drives me nuts. Okay, so then in Wesley's office, and we have Cordelia and Wesley going through a bunch of the books and stuff, trying to find out who, like, what the glyphs are and if they can find any history on them. And this is nice. We haven't had a good Cordelia and Wesley moment in a while. And Wesley says he sort of misses this. You, me, in the books. And then Cordelia says, wesley, last year, when that higher thing took over my body, did those things. Nobody's talking about it. And then he says, what's to say? We all understand it wasn't you. And she goes, do you? And he says, you didn't kill Lila. And she goes, I know. Still. I'm sorry. I just wanted to tell you that before. And then the book falls. And then she goes, hey, that's them. And then they see the tattoos. And then he's like, these are protection runes derived from the Nokian Alphabet. The ones from your vision are symbols. Some kind of concealment spell. And then she's like. Or he says, they protect the bear from being reviewed remotely by. From higher powers, seers, mystics, or transposed to today, any means of modern surveillance. So here's my question, guys.
If it prevents the bear from being viewed by higher powers and seers, why did Cordelia get a vision?
How did Cordelia get a vision?
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good point.
[00:54:29] Speaker A: Because that would require the higher powers.
[00:54:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:32] Speaker A: The powers of being able to see her. And then a seer to see. So there's, like, multiple layers of this.
[00:54:36] Speaker B: Not working because the plot needed her to see it.
[00:54:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the thing. There's just. There's really big holes in this plot. It's really hard for me to. It's really, really hard for me to see it, but cordially's like, wow, somebody really wants to stay hidden. Not good enough, Lindsay. Cut to the basement. We see Lindsay just, like, beatbopping along in the basement. He, like, swipes a key card. And then, like, we see that you can't see him through the security cameras because that's totally how this works. He's able to, like, walk straight across the lasers as he goes through and attacks this demon in a white lab coat and ends up, like, taking this little crystal around his neck. And then he. Or then we cut back to the hallway at Wolfram and Hart. Cordelia is walking down, and she ends up seeing Spike. At the end of the hallway, he sees her. And then she's like, oh, I heard you weren't evil anymore. Which kind of makes the hair silly. And then Spike turns into vampire face and then jumps straight at her and bites her. Angel comes in, is like, you know, any excuse to pummel and get his hands on Spike. He's like, touch Cordelia again. And Spike's like, hang on, she's evil. And then Cordelia's like, I'm not who bit whom? And then she's like, I thought you had a soul. And he's like, and I thought you didn't. And they realized, oh, hey, we're both actually really good, and we're both on the same team.
So then Angel's like, I see things. I'm gonna play dentist. And then Cordelia's like, and you call this guy the big hero. And then Spike's like, you called.
[00:56:05] Speaker B: You called hero.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: Now kiss. And then Angel's like, I didn't know you were eating people. And then Spike head butts him, and.
[00:56:13] Speaker B: It'S like, oh, sorry, can I just say real quick, like, these two, the chemistry. First chemistry we've seen all episode long, honestly, like, I'm. I'm jumping on the Angel Spike train. And I don't even like, why not? But I'm starting to, because I just. I just love this.
[00:56:30] Speaker A: I just like frenemies. I just love that they just do it so well.
[00:56:34] Speaker B: They hate each other, but, like, low key. They really like each other.
[00:56:37] Speaker A: Like, they like each other. Like, they want to, like, hang out and, like, share feelings about their soul and, like, talk about how much they love Buffy. Like, they do, and yet they're not letting themselves. So come on, guys.
[00:56:47] Speaker B: Get it.
[00:56:47] Speaker A: Do it.
[00:56:48] Speaker B: Oh, my God. You have a. You have an eternity. Like, let's go.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Yeah, come on. You can do fight for good together and go fight Lindsay. All three of you.
[00:56:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you can just be, like, an Old married couple and just, like, hang out for forever. Make love, not work together. Yeah.
And just drag each other to hell and back. Every day, all day, every day.
[00:57:10] Speaker A: Just fight. And then. Yeah, you know, and then.
[00:57:18] Speaker B: I'm sure they could find, like, one argument every day to just talk about all day. Like astronauts versus cavemen. There's a million arguments that they could have like that every day for the rest of eternity. How fun.
[00:57:31] Speaker A: They have more in common than they think. Come on, guys, let's go. Just do it already. Honestly, though, that's what I'm waiting for. I just this up. The season is taking so long to get to the point.
Just saying, here we are. We're like, episode 12. I'm like, come on, guys.
All right, guys. I pull up my Valley Girl.
Can we just, like, get to the point here, guys?
[00:57:58] Speaker B: Can we just do.
[00:57:59] Speaker A: Can we just, like, do.
Okay, so then Spike's like, I've got a guy. He's has an in with the powers that. What's. It gets these visions. And then angel and Cordelia like, hang on. Visions? And he talks about how the guy, Lindsay told him that Cordelia was taken over by some big bad. Came to destroy you all. Cordelia's like, well, his visions there are reruns. And Angel's like, that was last season, bruh. And he's like, looks like tattoo boy was wrong this time as well. What Spike says. And Cordelia's like, hang on, tattoos. They find out that he calls himself Doyle. And instantly angel and Cordelia are like, hang on, Doyle.
[00:58:34] Speaker B: Hell. They're like, hell, no.
[00:58:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Eve is watching this from, like, down the hall and on the phone.
Darn. He didn't kill her. I was like, this is the flimsiest plan. She's like, so she's still alive. My. My favorite part of this episode was how stressed Eve was the entire time and how Lindsay was like, yeah, this is working according to my plan, babe. Just. Just chill. Don't worry about it. I've got it all under luck.
[00:59:00] Speaker B: I feel like Lindsay and Eve have different plans. Like, they. He gave her, like, an. Like an altered version of the plan because he also doesn't trust her because he literally doesn't even like her.
[00:59:12] Speaker A: He doesn't care if she gets captured. He's like, whatever. No, as long as he gets off scot free.
[00:59:17] Speaker B: Literally, she's just his end to Wolfram and Hart. Like, that's it.
[00:59:20] Speaker A: She's so stressed about it too. You can tell. She's like, bruh, your plan c. Didn't work. He's like, don't worry about it, babe.
[00:59:27] Speaker B: He's the invisible one. She is like, that's true, right?
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Like, yeah. She could be caught. She's on fire.
[00:59:37] Speaker B: When I catch you.
[00:59:38] Speaker A: I know he's a Texan, but I'm just imagining the surfer dude, and he's like, bruh, it's all good. No worse.
Hang ten. That's not Lindsay. No, it's not. But that's just what I had in my mind. It's not him at all. Okay, so this is the quote part.
Christian Kane says that he had a difficult time calling himself Doyle because he felt, on some level he was masquerading as a deceased Glenn Quinn. It was a very awkward situation for me and David because we were close to Glenn Glenn, says Kane. I didn't know how the fans were going to react to it. Kane says the memory of Quinn upset David Boreanas. I could see it in his eyes. It's got to be a tough deal for him. However, Kane says that Joss is brilliant because he used that. That, how do you turn me and David against each other? You really can't because we're such close friends. So to use that for angel and Lindsay, I think has a little bit of brilliance to it. It's kind of sick, but it did the job.
[01:00:30] Speaker B: David Fury ads up.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: Yeah. David Fury adds, I think the fans appreciated it from the standpoint that we were honoring him, that Doyle's not a forgotten piece of this world, which. I like that. But, yeah. Joss using that. No. Yeah, yeah, I know. I've seen, like, other behind the scenes where both David and Charisma were just, like, really not okay with them having Christian Kane using the name Doyle and all that stuff. And, yeah, it was kind of.
[01:00:55] Speaker B: It was hard, but it's. It's almost. It's almost good that it was Christian Kane because he understood the way he was there, that storyline. Like, he also was friends with Glenn Quinn. I feel like it would have been even worse if it was just, like, some random actor they brought in off the street, you know?
[01:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yep. And it still does a good job of pointing us back to Doyle, too, because, you know, Christian Kane was there.
[01:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:18] Speaker A: All right. So then Lindsay's like, hey, it was a long shot. Listen, babe. Almost there. All right, so get out of the building right now. So she hangs up the cell phone, looks up immediately. It's angel and Cordelia standing there, and they're like, can we have a word with you? And then Cordelia grabs her by the ear and says, let's go, Lila junior. Don't insult Lila's name like that.
[01:01:34] Speaker B: This was weird. Why did she grab her by the ear like, that's a grown woman. Just tell her you're coming with us. Us.
[01:01:40] Speaker A: It's so true. There's no need.
[01:01:42] Speaker B: What is she gonna do, run off?
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah.
[01:01:46] Speaker B: Angel's right there.
[01:01:47] Speaker A: Office. Cordelia throws even to the chair. And she's surrounded by gun. Angel, Cordelia, Lauren, Fred and Wesley. And then Spikes, like, sitting near a window. Angel's like, we've got a problem, Eve. And Eve's like, damn right you do. When I tell the partners you assaulted me. And then Angel's like, okay, a couple weeks ago, man approached Spike, told about the powers that Be. Spike brain trusted he is. Went along with it. Spike's like, hey.
And then Angel's like, you know, putting two and two together. He's the one who told Spike to save me from the parasite. And you put the parasite on me. And he was like, not this again. Cordelia steps in front of Evans, like, get out of that chair, and I will feed you those Manalo Blanc.
[01:02:26] Speaker B: Manolo Blahniks.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: Okay. I don't know. My shoes. Is that.
[01:02:29] Speaker B: Those are shoe designer. Yes.
[01:02:31] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Gotcha.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you. This is why I have you here. For perfume, for shoes.
[01:02:36] Speaker B: Those are shoes that Carrie Bradshaw famously wears. Manolo Blahnik. That's like the Carrie Bradshaw shoe.
[01:02:41] Speaker A: Okay, Gotcha. Which she has great shoes.
[01:02:45] Speaker B: They're, like, the iconic ones. I think they're the ones that are blue with the buckle. Those are Manola Blahniks that she wears to her wedding, I think.
[01:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:53] Speaker B: But it's like a common, like, shoe that she loves in Sex and the City.
[01:02:58] Speaker A: Gotcha. Okay, Good to know. Thank you. Look at you, bringing in some cultural relevance to the episode. You did your research. So proud of you.
[01:03:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm a new girl.
I'm a new woman.
[01:03:10] Speaker A: Cordelia's back and changing everybody's lives, including Leia.
[01:03:14] Speaker B: Oh, never mind. I'm back.
I'm back to not knowing nothing.
[01:03:19] Speaker A: Now look in the camera and say, I need you, Cordelia.
Too far. Too far. All right.
Pushed her too far, guys. That's it. This might be the last episode with me.
[01:03:33] Speaker B: She's like, angel, I quit right now. I'm leaving. Packing up my. And can no longer do good in my house.
[01:03:42] Speaker A: Slams the computer down as if you're, like, slamming your cell phone. Yeah.
All right. So Angel's like, you guys are clearly working together. And he's like, the thing that really pisses me off is that this guy seems to be going by the name of Doyle. Ev. Eve still plays dumb. Cordelia yells in Eve's face. It rings a big freaking gong. And I want to know who has the nerve to be using that name. And Angel's like, I'm going to give you one chance to tell me who he is. And then Harmony walks in, is like, hey, can I get the afternoon off too? Because, like, everybody's gone. Like, the whole building is cleared out. And Angel's like, what's going on, Eve? And then we go to the basement chamber, and Lindsay's, like, fiddling around with this big, weird tube looking thing. He, like, puts the crystal in, lights come on, everything flashes, steam comes up, up. He just says, wakey, wakey. We don't know what's going on. There's, like, a timer that, like, starts increasing. And it's all very, very high budget. Looking all the budget went towards this machine. And not a separate room for the dead nuns and Spice video games.
Too much work.
[01:04:43] Speaker B: Too much.
[01:04:44] Speaker A: So then back in Angel's office, gun comes in. He goes, I checked the server. A message went out, code seven. Right before the building emptied. Angel asked, asks Eve what it is. She still won't answer. And Cordelia's like, torture her. And Angel's like, what? He's like, what do you mean? And Cordia's like, you heard me. Building cleared out. Means we don't have a lot of time. Have at it. Angel's like, I can't just torture her. Fred's like, he's right, Cordy. We can't see their level. Awesome. Out of nowhere, Harmony just tackles Eve, knocks her on Angel's desk. And I love Farm. Is this okay? I mean, I am evil, technically. I don't mind torturing her for the team. Angel's like, yeah, okay. She's like, come on, you hussy. And then just, like, backhands her over the face. Spell it. And then Eve goes, stop, stop. Okay, it's a spill. Safe. And then Harvey punches her again. Yeah. And he's like, harmony, she's talking and she's like, she is? All right. Okay. Well, that sucks. Apparently, during this fight scene, Mercedes McNabb actually slapped Sarah Thompson accidentally.
[01:05:44] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[01:05:45] Speaker A: Sarah Thompson says, she was so worried she'd hurt me, but it actually worked well for the. I reacted by really screaming.
[01:05:51] Speaker B: I was gonna say, like, I hope they got that take. Like, it was a good take that they could use because, yeah, I hope so. Yeah.
[01:06:00] Speaker A: So then Eve spills and like, all right. The senior partners weren't sure if they could trust you, so they built a safe. Like a fail safe. It's in the sub levels of the building. She's like, it's huge. And alive. I don't know what it is. Angel doesn't know how to stop it. Except Eve says that the only way to shut it down is in the chamber. Fred's like, who activated it? And Wesley's like, has to be someone else. And Lauren's like, it's our magically tattooed faux Doyle. Angel's like, spike, I don't want to go in blind. Anything else that you know about this guy? And Spike's like, not much. Average size, dressed like an urban cowboy. Got his hand chopped off once. And Cordelia's like, his hand. Wesley goes, he's back. Angel goes, Lindsay.
He's like, yes. My boyfriend's back, baby. Let's go kick some Texan ass. Yes.
[01:06:47] Speaker B: You mean my punching bag is back? Yeah. Like, my toxic situation has literally, Literally.
[01:06:55] Speaker A: My side chick. Woo.
[01:06:57] Speaker B: Woo.
Spike is his main chick, though, right?
[01:07:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's no one like them in the whole world.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: Nobody there. Quite literally, there's nobody like him.
[01:07:09] Speaker A: That is one of those where you're like, there is.
[01:07:12] Speaker B: Truly.
[01:07:14] Speaker A: Spike's like, I'm not like other girls.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: He's not.
[01:07:18] Speaker A: He's not. He truly is not just one of the. One of the girls.
All right, so then Angel's like, lock the building down. Make sure he can't get out. Don't trust the security systems. He won't show up. Because those tattoos of his. Wesley's like, I. I think I know how to fix that. I need help. So, Lauren.
[01:07:34] Speaker B: Of course he does.
[01:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
He just pulls things out of his all the time. Yeah.
[01:07:40] Speaker B: Like, he just knows.
[01:07:41] Speaker A: So convenient.
So then Lauren and Fred offer to help. And Cordelia, like, tells Fred about who Lindsay is. And then Harmony's like, guard E. Or angel tells Harmony, guard Eve. She moves. Eat her. And Harmony goes, really? Thanks. The script says, she looks at Eve like she's lunch.
[01:08:00] Speaker B: Good for Harmony.
[01:08:01] Speaker A: I would have been terrified if I were Eve, because the way that Harmony is so volatile, I would be like, like, I'm not moving a single muscle.
So then Fred's like, angel, you're not going down there alone. Angel's like, the fail safe's meant for me. I'm not going to risk anybody I care about. Spike's like, I'll go. Angel's like, okay.
[01:08:20] Speaker B: Hell yeah, brother.
The boys.
[01:08:25] Speaker A: The boys. And And Cordelia. So then he's like, all right, be ready to evacuate. If this thing gets past me, get the hell out of the building. Cordelia's like, past it, this. And then she grabs the. OR walks to Angel's desk to go after the weapons. And Angel's like, no, Cordelia. She's like, yeah, save it, Angel. You can order me around all you want, but I know my rights, and I want to see a lawyer. And I wrote my notes. These lines are just horrible.
[01:08:48] Speaker B: They're so cringy. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
[01:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just really hard because the plot is cheesy. And. Yeah, you're supposed to be invested into the characters then. And so I'm not invested into the plot. I'm not invested into this character. And then on top of that, the lines that they gave her were just so, so bad. And they've given the other characters Cordelia, too. Yeah, the other characters. We'll get into that one. They've. I mean, Christian Cain's lines were horrendous, but, like, they've given Cordelia some of the more iconic lines on Buffy. Like, in early season three. Hang on. I gotta call everyone I've ever met. And what is your childhood trauma? That is such a good line.
[01:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:09:31] Speaker A: Such a good line. And it's just like, I know my rights and I want a lawyer. I mean, I think it's supposed to be, I'm gonna go kick Lindsay's butt because he used to be a lawyer. But it's like. But he's not a lawyer anymore. But then it's also just. I don't know, it just didn't quite.
Anyway. All right, we are now at the basement. Every time I see Spike standing next to angel in, like, a panned out shot, I'm just, like, so surprised at how short he is.
[01:09:55] Speaker B: He's so.
[01:09:56] Speaker A: And how big his jacket looks on him. Yeah, it's so funny.
They see the green laser beams. They're like, oh, gosh, what do we do? And then Angel's like, let's find out. He kind of walks into one of the lasers, and then zombies come out. They start fighting.
[01:10:09] Speaker B: Go.
[01:10:09] Speaker A: Go for it. I know what you're gonna say.
[01:10:11] Speaker B: That's just such a weird champion.
No, no, Sarah, I'm talking about the lasers. Like, how does he know that a bunch of stakes are not just gonna shoot out from all the walls?
[01:10:23] Speaker A: How does he know that they're just not gonna, like, cut off his hand? Hand.
[01:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:10:27] Speaker A: Actual laser. Yeah. I gotta. Yeah.
[01:10:30] Speaker B: That was reckless but also, I mean, it's Angel. He can. He. He beats the bad guys.
[01:10:33] Speaker A: He beats the bad guys.
[01:10:35] Speaker B: Leia.
[01:10:36] Speaker A: I'm Angel. I beat the bad guys.
I should have recorded that. And we're just gonna, like, play that in random intervals for the rest of this season. I'm Angel. It's like, I'm Batman.
[01:10:49] Speaker B: Oh. Oh, God. This is reminding me of reaction.
[01:10:52] Speaker A: I literally am gonna record this, and I'm just gonna play this random places. I'm Angel. I beat the bad guy.
Why does he do this, guys? Because he's angel and he beats the bad guys. I feel like there was something similar in season one that he would say that I kept, like, quoting over and over again.
[01:11:08] Speaker B: Never this cringy in season one, please.
[01:11:10] Speaker A: It's because Cordelia's back.
Anyway, Spike's like, go on, guys. I'll hold him back. And then angel and Cordelia. Cordelia head to the basement chamber. Lindsay's walking around patting the tank like they're there. He's like, bye, bye, Angel. Angel comes in. Hello, Lindsay. And Lindsay goes. And the hero arrives right on schedule and with a date. And Cordelia's like, yeah, dinner and a show. And you're both.
The slides are so bad. And Lindsay's like, is this the part where I get.
[01:11:38] Speaker B: I feel like I'm watching what a comic would read?
[01:11:41] Speaker A: Like, no, I feel like I'm watching a sitcom. And this is the moment where Cordelia would say that, and then you'd have, like, a cheer for, like, five minutes as the audience just goes and climbs. Apps and everything. And, like, you know how they say guest star? And it's like, yeah, yeah, it's Uncle Ricky.
You know? I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it feels like. Yes, I know what you do. I need to elaborate more. Do you get it?
[01:12:04] Speaker B: No, I know what you mean.
[01:12:08] Speaker A: Anyway, all right, so then Lindsay's like, there's always time for redemption. Isn't that your whole thing? And Angel's like, you had your chance. I guess some people, they just never change. So then he backhands him. But then Lindsay catches his hand mid thrust, punches angel in the ribs before throwing him across the entire room. And he goes, I did.
[01:12:28] Speaker B: Ooh.
[01:12:29] Speaker A: That was the moment that Cordelia thought she had.
So then Lindsay's, like, just shown this superhuman strength. He's like, you're just gonna lay there and bleed. Angel's like, cody, get out of here. Lindsay's like, no. And then, like, telekinetically, like, pulls the door down or something. I don't know.
[01:12:45] Speaker B: So the door closed so slowly, it was just like.
[01:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah, like a band slowly. Like, back backing up.
[01:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah. She could have ran up those stairs and slipped under the door real quick.
[01:12:59] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, she's cool enough for that. She slides because she's a she. I was gonna say because she's Angel. Because she's Cordelia. And she gets out of there, she beats.
[01:13:08] Speaker B: Oh, that's a new one.
Okay, I was gonna say she beats.
[01:13:13] Speaker A: The bad guys, but. But that's not always true. Bad guys beat her. So this was. You can take that up your face. Your face. You literally were like this.
I mean, am I wrong?
They. They do beat her. They impregnate her. She's Cordelia, and she gets impregnated anyway. Okay, that's sad. We don't have to dwell on that. Okay, so then, where were we? Lindsay pulls out a pocket.
Lindsay pulls out a pocket knife. And he's like, this won't take long. And Cordelia's like, angel. She throws him the samurai sword. And then Lindsay's like, oh, well, it's not the size that matters, big guy. And then somehow his pocket knife turns into a hefty sword. This is so ridiculous. There's so many questions that I have.
[01:14:05] Speaker B: So ridiculous.
[01:14:06] Speaker A: He's like, it's how you use it. Oh, my God. If I get another weapon to dick contest, like, measuring contest. It is just like, every time, it's like, we get it. We know what's happening. We understand. I'm so tired of this. Like, oh, my gosh. It's. And then it turns into. Whose shirt can get unbuttoned more than the others? And, like, he was just like, bro, Stephen, tonight, you're better than this.
[01:14:29] Speaker B: This is.
[01:14:30] Speaker A: This is crappy work.
I've seen Daredevil. It's good. But, you know, who knows? Oh, so dumb. Angel's like, shut it down. Lindsay's like, say please. And Angel's like, I wasn't talking to you. And Cordelia's like, oh, right on it. And said she goes up the stairs. What was she doing? Like, distracted by the giant sword. Like, come on, girl, let's go.
[01:14:51] Speaker B: You.
[01:14:51] Speaker A: We brought you here for a reason.
Go do the machine. Let's go.
You're getting. Ain't getting any better. Oh, no.
That's my first new crew.
[01:15:05] Speaker B: Guys, I just want you to know that Sarah checked her invisible watch as she said this. She literally lifted her wrist, shook off her shirt, and went like this. She was like, you ain't getting Any better?
[01:15:18] Speaker A: Astral projection's gonna let up soon.
[01:15:20] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[01:15:22] Speaker A: Anyway, the more unhinged episodes get, the more unhinged I get, so. Take that, Josh.
[01:15:28] Speaker B: It's crazy.
[01:15:29] Speaker A: It's just crazy. He's like, should never. Or angel says, should never have come back. Lindsay. Lindsay's like, what can I say? I miss. Missed you. Angel swings. They start fighting in their sword fight. And then Cordelia is like, oh, no, let's try the blue one. As she's figuring out the control panel.
[01:15:44] Speaker B: What a pointless shot.
[01:15:47] Speaker A: It's so.
[01:15:47] Speaker B: Of her doing that.
[01:15:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I could go on, but I don't want to. So then they fight, and apparently Lindsay picked up powers in Nepal. He's like, you like it? Angel's like, they sell that crap at the airport. And Lindsay's like, you know, all my carefully laid out plans, my designs. When you get right down to it, that was pretty sweet, too. Like, you know, the classic villain montage. She's like, fight to the death. Yours.
[01:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:16:12] Speaker A: And then angel goes, I've seen your tough act before. Squirt, squirt, squirt.
[01:16:18] Speaker B: This was so first time we ever met.
[01:16:20] Speaker A: You put on a show, huffing and popping, telling me I couldn't lay a hand on your scumbag client. And Lindsay's like, so you kicked him out a window? Like, bro. Like, come on, We. We all can use our imagination and remember, it's just like. Yeah. Lindsay's like, it was a defining moment. Kind of like this one. Cordelia sees that. Like, something in the tank starting to swim around. Back in Wesley's office, Wesley's reading from a scroll, Guns pacing behind him. And Fred's gathering in ingredients while Lauren is pacing in the background with a stick of smoking incense. Which I kind of liked this moment. It really reminded me of becoming Part two, when you had.
I was gonna say Wesley. You have Willow doing the spell, and it was Cordelia that walked around with the incense while Oz was helping. So it was kind of like. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it kind of reminded me of that. I like how they realize that they need another ingredient. It's the Ardial blood of an unclean. And he's like a demon. And Lauren's like, we're unclean. Like, you're so April. And then he's like, you sure that thing said arterial blood? And Wesley said like, sorry. And Lauren's like, why don't they ever need the urine of an unclean demon? I've got plenty of unclean urine. And then God just, like, pulls out a dagger and I'm like, can we ask, get his consent at least? Please? Like, oh, man. Poor Lauren.
And back in the basement, Cordelia is still trying to figure out the panel. Angel's punching Lindsay. Lindsay's. When Lindsay stands up, his shirt is hanging open, unbuttoned.
[01:17:44] Speaker B: Oh, wow, how convenient.
[01:17:46] Speaker A: Of course, angel unbuttons Lindsay's shirt. So Christian Cain, who. He went through two and a half months of sword training for his role in Secondhand Lines, which is an excellent movie, by the way. He approached the writers to see if they could work in his new skills into the episode. So that's how we got this sword fight. So Kane actually did all of his stunts in this episode and in the scene, including all of the wire work. Like, all of it? Yeah.
And the IMDb. I don't know why this is such a big deal, but they said that he did all his own stunts when he moved through the lasers in the tunnel, which were not cgi, but actual lasers. Lasers. I was like. And, okay. And they're lights. Okay, thanks. That was revolutionary. So appreciate that.
Anyway. All right. They continue to sword fight, and Lindsay ends up stabbing angel through the. The heart with the sword. And Cordelia's like, angel. And I'm like, guys, he can't die. Like, this isn't gonna hurt him. And then Lindsay does, like, little tippy tops. He's like, who is this? Who is this? And he's, like, dancing around. And then he takes off his shirt all the way, and he's like, I came to fight the vampire with the soul. Guess you shouldn't have sold it, huh? Look at you. From champion to pathetic corporate puppet in just a few months. You used to have fire in your heart. Now you got in there as big hunking sword. How's that feel, champ? Angel's like, could be worse. Pulls the sword out of his chest and says, if it had been made out of wood, you dumbass.
Like, come on, bro. Come on. Angel should have been like, lindsay really thought he ate.
[01:19:15] Speaker B: He really thought he did something.
[01:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Kate put a whole beam inside of his heart. Like.
[01:19:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Or like a wooden beam.
[01:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a wooden beam really close to his heart. Like, come on. So then Cordelia finally presses a button, gets the crystal to come out, and she goes like, that was so hard. I was like, okay, Elwoods, perfect. Lindsay sees Cordelia with the crystal. She smashes it. And then. Or, no, she doesn't smash it. I guess the tank just sinks back down on keeping the animal and contained or whatever. Lindsay's power fades. So much for Nepal. And then he's not able to throw very good punches at Angel. And Angel's like, all those tattoos, all those new tricks you learned just don't matter. Doesn't matter what you try. He punches Lindsay down, says, doesn't matter where I am or how badass you think you've become. Because you know what?
What? Because you know what?
[01:20:05] Speaker B: Go.
[01:20:08] Speaker A: I'm Angel. I'm Batman.
Oh, I beat the bad guys.
[01:20:15] Speaker B: He's never been so unattractive. He's never.
[01:20:18] Speaker A: We hear his theme song play, and we go, yay.
And then Cordelia's like, are you okay? And he's like, I've been worse. And Lindsay's like, so what now? Think you got it in you to kill me? Angel's like, I don't think we have to. And then Cordelia's like, sweetie, your epidermis is showing.
What are we in seventh grade, bro? Who wrote this? Like, David Fury. David Fury. I got beef. David Fury also wrote.
What was the one? Conversations. Not conversation. Dead people. It's lies. My parents told me, I think.
[01:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:20:55] Speaker A: David Fury. Or is it Doug Petrie now? I can't even remember. I just did that episode.
[01:20:58] Speaker B: I think it was Fury.
[01:20:59] Speaker A: Yeah. He does a lot of episodes that I just. He does. He did Helpless, and he peaked and never did anything great after that.
[01:21:05] Speaker B: Like, truly, he peaked at helpless. He did.
[01:21:10] Speaker A: It's like, one of my favorite episodes. And then we have, like, crappy stuff. Anyway, I'd be with the Buffy verse writers. Okay, so we see Lindsay's tattoos, like, vanishing. And he's unmarked and unprotected in Wesley's office. He finishes up the spell and he's like. I think I can feel it working. We have this bizarre scene where Fred looks at Wesley and it's like, oh. Oh, gosh, she's in love, isn't she?
[01:21:32] Speaker B: It's clicking. Yeah.
[01:21:34] Speaker A: Why? Why now? What was it about this moment? I don't get it.
[01:21:38] Speaker B: Because Cordelia's back, and they love doing unnecessary romances when court.
[01:21:43] Speaker A: She has her conviction. Oh, it's so true.
It's. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, back in the basement. That's a can of words for can of worms. For another day. For another episode.
All right. So Lindsay's like, damn. Then the flashing lights in a whirlwind appear above him. And Angel's like, I think the senior partners would like a word. Lindsay's like, you don't think they're angry, do you? And then he gets sucked into the air into the portal. I remember the first time I watched this, and I was like, this is the stupidest episode I have seen.
So then we are in the lobby of Wolfram and Hart, and the whole gang is making Eve walk onto the elevator and to leave. And basically, if she comes back, they're going to start thinking of.
They're going to kill her. Yeah, they're starting to think of killing her. And they're also like, well, you know, what are the senior partners gonna think? And then Lauren's like, hey, we should all go out and, like, get some drinks together. And everyone's like, yeah, that sounds great. All right. Meet you there. There. And then they all start to take off, and Cordelia is like, you guys go ahead. We'll catch up. And then she says, oh, and, Wesley, you still work the best mojo in town. And that was kind of like a nice little special goodbye for Wesley. And then Lauren's like, hang on, I bleed from the neck. And he gets the props. And so then the elevator closes, and it's just Cordelia and Angel in his office. And she asks if he feels good. And he says, I just kind of feel bad about it. And he's like, I just don't feel like I deserve. I mean, all I did was beat up a tiny Texan. It's not like I helped anyone. So apparently, Christian Cain was genuinely upset when he heard that David Fury had added tiny Texan into the. The script. Because he. Although he was born in Texas, he identifies as a Sooner. And he says, and I'm stronger than David, bigger than David. I'm just shorter. Cain says joss likes to take shots at me. He's like, I can't build this character up too much without cutting his nuts just a little bit.
[01:23:33] Speaker B: Jesus Christ. It's not that serious.
[01:23:37] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[01:23:39] Speaker B: Did you feel emasculated?
[01:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah, he did. His sword was shorter.
[01:23:43] Speaker B: Okay, well, to.
[01:23:45] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know that I necessarily see it, but there's another instance as well where Joss does the same thing. And. Yeah, and remember, like, Kanan specifically said when he came back, he's like, hey, I'd actually like the chance to, like, beat somebody up. And, you know, and he just keeps getting beat up. But it happens for trust in Joss.
So then Cordelia says, boy, I really do fall for the dumb ones. You know how you're always trying to save? Oh, every single person in the world. Did it every occur to you you were one of them? Angel says, no, it never Did. She says, well, you made the list, gorgeous, and you needed some help. He says, and you were the one that helped me. And she says, I did my part. He says, lindsay wasted a lot of energy trying to make me doubt myself. I know it's not even close to over, but I do feel like I can do this. Wolfram and Heart, whatever is coming, I feel like we can beat it.
But why?
[01:24:30] Speaker B: Cool.
[01:24:31] Speaker A: Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
[01:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah, this is. This is the part of the episode that just, like, doesn't. And I feel like the entire point of this episode is to get to this scene, but I just don't understand how angel gets here because literally, not a single thing has changed.
[01:24:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I would say the only difference is maybe he had the chance to connect and confide into Cordelia about how he's feeling with Connor. He got to beat up Lindsay again. But, like, it's just.
[01:25:01] Speaker B: But, like, his concerns were existential, giant concerns about what he was doing. So, like, I tend to agree with you where it's, like, having Cordelia back and, like, her conviction and the mission and the Powers that Be and then having, you know, beating Lindsay again, it should have pushed angel in the opposite direction where he was actually.
[01:25:21] Speaker A: I need to.
[01:25:22] Speaker B: I'm convinced now that I. We shouldn't be here. We need to go.
[01:25:26] Speaker A: Especially because Cordelia makes a huge thing about, like, why are you here? This is horrible. Like, you're selling out kind of thing. But at the end, she, like, doesn't really mention any of that. She's just, like, cool. You're willing to, like, go fight the bad guys again. And it's, like, what he always was.
[01:25:41] Speaker B: Yeah, but he. And also, like, he said he didn't really help the helpless. He didn't help anyone in this episode.
[01:25:48] Speaker A: That's true. But I think that the point is that he needed to help himself is what.
[01:25:53] Speaker B: But how did he help himself? Like, I just. That's the part that doesn't click in this episode where it's like, I don't know how angel went from wanting to quit so vehemently in the beginning of the episode to the end of the episode here. And I want to point out before the kiss happens, he's, like, ready to give this another go. It just feels like a change of heart and a really. Like, a really drastic change of heart in a really short amount of time where nothing really significant happened. You know, that's the part that really doesn't work for me. And, like, I just don't know how much, like, how much Cordelia actually. Like, what did Cordelia do? Really?
[01:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. Unless it was a reminder about Doyle. Unless it was a reminder of, like, fighting the good fight. The fact that Cordelia herself was willing to die for because of her belief in Angel.
[01:26:47] Speaker B: But the episode doesn't, like, show us.
[01:26:50] Speaker A: He doesn't know, but he also doesn't know she's gonna die.
[01:26:51] Speaker B: At this point, we're assuming all of these things, though. Do you know what I mean?
[01:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah. No, absolutely.
[01:26:56] Speaker B: Maybe we're supposed to, like. Maybe we're supposed to come to our own conclusions as to. But I just feel like an episode that's asking us to reconsider something that we've been sitting with for 12 episodes now, like Angel's state of mind. And for us to accept that it's drastically changed now for some reason. I just feel like we needed a little bit more substance as to why he all of a sudden now is deciding that he can do this, you.
[01:27:23] Speaker A: Know, And I think they could have done that. I think there are some bones here, especially with the callbacks to Doyle. But, yeah, they just didn't explain it very well.
So Courtney says, you. I always did. I just needed you to know it. You'll win this in the end. I just wish I could be there to see it. She gets up and tells him that she can't stay, that this isn't her anymore. Tells him that he can tell the gang and explain everything once he understands. Angel says, that's going to be never. I need you here. She says in tears for him not to make this hard, that she's just on a different road and this is her off ramp. The Powers that Be owed her one, and she didn't waste it. I got my guy back on track. Track.
[01:27:55] Speaker B: We.
[01:27:55] Speaker A: We take what we can, champ, and we do our best with it. I'll be seeing you. Her voice breaks. And then she turns to go, then. Then turns back and says, what the hell? One for the road. Before kissing him. Which is a little bizarrely blocked because Cordy's face and her hands are both in shadow. Like, you can't see her face. You just see angel. Which maybe they're trying to show that, like, he's kissing a shadow. Like she's, like, fading away from him.
[01:28:18] Speaker B: She's not really there.
[01:28:19] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe that's what they're trying to do. But as they kiss, the phone rings. Angel's like, I don't need to get that. But Courtney tells him that this. This is one he has to get. Oh, there's the mission. Destiny's calling again. The line to the power of the bees back up. Angel goes for the phone. We have one last shot of Cordy as she says, oh, and you're welcome, before smiling sadly through her tears. She actually glances briefly at the camera when she says that, which is so interesting. Like, it kind of feels like a little like fourth wall break. Yeah, I like, like Jim's take on this. He says that Cordy says, you're welcome, not needing to hear a thank you because she knows her own self worth and rightly or wrongly doesn't need to hear angel say thank you. It's very. It feels very Cordelia. She would say, you're welcome regardless of having a thank you.
So then angel answers the phone and then receives the news that Cordy is dead. And he's like, that's impossible. She's standing right here. Then turns and Cordelia is gone. Apparently she never did wake up. Up. We end up with him hanging the phone up and then staring at the spot Cordy was last seen in with tears in his eyes as he whispers thank you.
That very sad. And honestly, like, I've talked a lot about how, like, it's often hard for me to buy into Charisma Carpenter's, like, tears when she's. When she's crying. But I felt like I really. I really felt it in this scene.
[01:29:37] Speaker B: The scene was really well done.
[01:29:39] Speaker A: Like, this was like. You can also tell with charisma saying goodbye to, like, the fans, saying goodbye to her character. Like, it was really moving. And it is hard in these moments to not separate out the actress from the character because of what's happening behind the scenes. But it's very moving.
[01:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah. The scene was definitely. I would say it's probably her best performance on both shows for me, because I. I often have a hard time feeling emotional when Cordelia is having an emotional scene. And it's not that, like, I don't. I don't understand what's happening or, like, I don't sympathize or whatever in certain moments. But it's just. It never, like, moves me to where I feel like kind of, you know, like you feel a pit in your stomach, like, tightness in your chest, and you're just like, oh, this is really, like, sad. And you kind of feel the emotions through the screen. And I felt like this was the, like, first time that I felt that from her performance.
I just thought it was like, really well done. And I think she's spoken before about how so? She was in, like, the Expandables or something with Sylvester Stallone, and apparently she showed him this scene as her, like, audition for the role, and he really liked it, and that's how she got that job. So, yeah, you know. Excellent.
[01:30:56] Speaker A: Excellent.
[01:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:30:57] Speaker A: Yeah. It's the perfect scene, honestly.
[01:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And when I see this moment when she says, you're welcome and stuff, too, like, it's such a beautiful moment for the fans in the audience. And then it just takes me back to high school Cordelia that we saw in season one of Buffy and how far she's come in a lot of ways. And, yeah, it's very bittersweet and a great tribute for the character.
[01:31:18] Speaker B: So, for sure, I will say in, like, an alternate universe where this episode was written differently and she got to have, like, a different ending, I still would write her out of the show, but I wish that this scene, like, when she says, you know, this isn't me anymore. I'm on an off. Like, I'm on a ramp, and this is my off.
Whatever she says.
I wish, like. I don't know, it would have been really cool to see Cordelia kind of take agency. Take the agency back, like, from. For her life, and, like, choose to, you know, choose to go off and, like, do her own thing.
[01:31:53] Speaker A: Well, it's interesting that you die and not die, because I found someone who has a section of the script from this last bit before they changed it. Probably what they showed Charisma, Carpenter and everybody else to get them in, because I think they were trying to keep this ending a secret. So her goodbye speech was slightly different. She says, don't make it hard, Angel. I'm just on a different road, and this is my off ramp. You know what kind of hell I've been through. I couldn't tough that out anymore. Powers that Be owed me one, and I didn't want wasted. Got my boy back on track. She kisses him, he responds, the two of them sinking into each other warmly. A few seconds later, they break apart and Cordelia leaves. So I think it was roughly the same, but it was very much a. The Powers that Be owed me an extra life, and I didn't waste it. So I got you on track, but I'm also going to leave because that's what's best for me. And you know what? I would have respected her character so much if she had done that, too, because of everything that she was like.
[01:32:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like that would have been such a beautiful, like, ending to her arc. That's been just so lacking in agency for so long.
[01:32:58] Speaker A: Right.
[01:32:58] Speaker B: We've talked about this where, like, out of all the women in the Buffyverse, it feels like Cordelia gets robbed of her agency and, like, is a victim most of the time.
[01:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[01:33:08] Speaker B: For, like, every single storyline that centers around her. So I don't know. I just. And I know, like, there's the whole idea of, like, would she ever leave the gang and angel and go off on her own? But I think that line that you just said from the script that wasn't added about how she's been through hell, like, that explains it. Like, she has been through hell. She's been through horrific. And, like, it would make so much sense for her to be like, you guys do this, but I'm not doing this, and I'm gonna choose to, like, go do something else elsewhere. You know, like, whether that is to go start her own agency and, like, help people in her own way, or if she goes and, like, meets up with Willow or goes and, like, helps the slayers round up slayers and, like, train them and stuff, you know? Like, I just wish that there was a different ending for the character where she doesn't have to die in a coma and get to come back as, like, an astral projection for a couple of hours simply to help Angel. She doesn't get anything out of it other than to help Angel. And I think that's the problem with this episode. It's like, first of all, I don't really know what she does to get angel to where he is. You know, like, it's not clear. Second of all, she doesn't get to have a single moment where she gets to, like, reflect on the shit that she's been put through for a season and a half, and then she is revealed to be dead the whole time. Like, it's just. It's kind of a slap in the face, like.
[01:34:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it's hard because there's, like, you could say that Cordelia has agency in the sense of the powers that Bea owed her one, and she chose to use that to help Angel.
But then obviously, it's overshadowed by all of the behind the scenes stuff, and the writers didn't want that endings. They wrote something else. And I don't know, it's just. It would have been so nice if she was off living her life and became. Yeah. Whatever else she wanted to be.
[01:35:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:35:01] Speaker A: All right. Goodbye, Cordelia.
[01:35:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Sorry, girl.
[01:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:35:07] Speaker B: That was a crazy roller coaster of a ride, right?
[01:35:10] Speaker A: It's so sad. So sad. We. We wanted one for you. For sure.
[01:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But it's like. It's a beautiful ending, I guess, for, like, it was either this or she just stays in a coma. And I. I'd rather.
[01:35:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[01:35:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:35:26] Speaker A: Much rather. Yes, for sure. So. All right, listeners, let us know your thoughts in the episode. I know. I feel like we're gonna be pretty divided. I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people that love this episode and a lot of people that are just like, man. But, yeah, let us know your thoughts. Tell us why you guys think, like, what. What did Cordelia do to get angel back on track? What was it that changed Angel's mind?
[01:35:50] Speaker B: Yeah, is he back on track?
[01:35:52] Speaker A: Is he back on track, that is. We'll find out next episode, right? Yeah, we'll find out. But, yeah, as always, guys, thanks so much for listening, and we will talk to you next time. Thanks so much for listening to Investigating Angel. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Angel Podcast, and you can email [email protected].
