[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are talking about season three, Chapter two, the Mall Rats, written and directed by The Duffers. Aired July 4, 2019. And today, we are joined by our first guest of season three, Naj. Welcome, Naj.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Hey, everyone. Wait, I'm the first guest?
[00:01:00] Speaker A: You're the first guest in season three.
[00:01:01] Speaker C: Yes. I feel so special.
Yes. I'm so excited to be here. I think this is going to help me remember some things because I think I overhyped season three. I think.
I think it was during the hypeness of, like, Covid. So staying in the house and watching this was, like, the best thing ever. But maybe listening and talking with this podcast, I'll rethink some decisions.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: What did you guys think of this episode?
[00:01:33] Speaker B: You go first.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: I'm getting a sense that Naj was not a big fan of this.
[00:01:39] Speaker C: I think I liked that episode for a couple things I did, like the introduction of L and, you know, Max's relationship, especially after, like, House. It was in season two where, like, it was like, it's a parent, like, be from one side. I did like that. We got to see L act like a child, like, you know, a girl for once and not be in this kind of, like, this kind of atmosphere where she has to be secluded to, like, rules of, like, having to be home by this time or being, you know, everything locked down. She was, like, free for once. I did hate the. The. The Mike and L thing. I thought this is where they start to lose me as a shipper at that time because of this.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: One of us. One of us.
[00:02:20] Speaker C: Sad to see.
Even, like, when I got done the show, obviously I was still like, I always prefer, like, one ship over the other, but watching it now, I'm just like.
Like, some of this stuff could be just an easy communication. Especially when y' all were, like, separated in season two for a long time, I thought you would not want to take it for granted. But we'll see that the. The government storyline, I just could not care about at all.
I just could not. I can't.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: With the mayor.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: Yeah, the mayor situation, the Billy situation.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Don't care.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: I don't care about Mike. I don't care about Billy.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: I don't care about the government.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Too much going on in this episode. I felt like it felt like we were being pulled in so many different directions.
[00:03:06] Speaker C: Like in such little time too. I feel like they were trying to. They were trying to like soft launch it. And it's crazy because I didn't even think all this happened by episode two. I thought this was like mid season three. So when.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: Why does everybody have that experience?
[00:03:18] Speaker C: I'm telling you. So when I saw like, I saw the mall, saw the rat, I saw the mayor, I saw the. Billy, you're like already the. The ice cream place with the Russians. And I was like, wait, this is all episode two and 51 minutes. And I was like, what the.
Oh my God.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, this episode was fine, but like, like I said, I feel like there was just too much going on. Like, I just felt all of it felt so opposite of each other too. Like the stuff with the kids was very light hearted and very, you know, like rom com. You know, they're at the mall, they're doing all these cute stuff. The relationships, you know, her and Max and Elle are like getting closer. The boys are off doing their own adventure. And then you had like, obviously the stuff with Billy, which I think was the most interesting part of the episode. Like, that's what, that's what I wanted to find out more about. And it felt like it just kept cutting to a different scene that I didn't care about as much. And then going back to Billy and then the Russian thing. Like, it's hard because I like that Dustin and Steve are like hanging out now. Robin's in on it and stuff. But I just, again, I don't really.
They haven't like intrigued me with the whole Russian storyline so far.
And then obviously Hopper and Joyce.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it just, it just felt like like.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: And then Nancy and like everybody was just very separate and there were so many things going on and I'm like, where do I look like I'm lost?
[00:04:56] Speaker C: And then you had Joyce with the magnets too. So she went to like the, the school, the teacher and then was talking as well. It was like just. It was just so much. I mean, I think between like everything that I watched, the BL situation was intriguing and I, I actually started like making like some parallels today.
I was like, whoa.
Between him and like, you know, Will of it all. But then I was just like, well, every time we see him and we're getting intrigued, it flips to something else. And like, you know, like.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Yeah, like.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: And I get it because, like we watched like the first two seasons and like every time they'll do that. It would make sense because everybody will be finding something that kind of like overlays to where like it's vague connection. This has no connection at all. Like when they were talking about the Russians, I was like, is this season four? And I was like, oh no, this is season three. So I don't know how this will play to us, but we'll see.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Like, I get it. I feel like they're trying to do this thing where it's like, oh, you know, everyone thinks that life is normal and everyone's kind of going about their day, but really there's like dark, like dark shadows lurking underneath the surface of Hawkins. But it's like, yeah, we know, like we've been knowing this.
But yeah, I mean it was, it was a good. It was an episode that had really good moments for me, but overall it was just too jam packed.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Like it was stretched thin. You feel like there wasn't enough focus on any one thing. Yeah, it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: But I liked parts of it a lot. Just not as a whole, I don't think.
Yeah, what did you think, Sarah?
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I enjoyed the episode because there were aspects. Like I really loved Max and Elle, them doing their thing and stuff. I'm appreciating that. Unlike with season two, like the pacing, we start off really fast and then we're just going. I feel like season two was so slow for so long and then it final was like at the last two episodes things were finally happening. But I also remember season three really well and I remember that this pace slows down. So all these story lines we're jumping back and forth to right now that feel really fast. Eventually they're going to start slowing all those story lines down and then it gets really monotonous somewhere in the middle of season three. And like in classic Stranger Thing form, they always at the very end, bring everybody together. But I, personally, I am not a fan. I understand why they do it with such a big cast. I'm not a fan of keeping your cast all separated and bringing everybody together at the end because part of the joy of these shows is watching all of the different interpersonal relationships and dynamics interact with one another. And I find that the, the show starting especially in season two, really separates its casting characters and that just continues to get worse as the show goes on because they just don't want to put everybody all together in the same room because you get really boring scenes. So it's like start killing off some people maybe, or maybe like write people out in the organic way. I'm gonna be one of those people. I apologize. But yeah, I actually discovered some things about this episode that I thought were pretty interesting that I think might make sense from a thematic standpoint that ties everything in together.
But I'll discuss it later on down the line. So that's your guys's little teaser for the episode, so stick around for that.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: What was that?
[00:08:01] Speaker A: I've been hanging out with Tony too much.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Paris Hilton.
What did she say?
[00:08:08] Speaker A: I said, I've been hanging out with Tony too much.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: No, I'm saying, what did Paris Hilton say? She's like, everybody's a princess. Oh, and that's hot.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Would that make you Nicole Richie, then? The Nicole Richie by Paris Hilton?
[00:08:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah, let's go with that.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: We're mall rats anyway. I mean, this is, you know, I guess she was talking about the 2000s, but I feel like Paris Hilton would be a. If she was in the 80s, she would have been a mall rat, you know, for sure.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: She. Sure.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: I mean, were we not all mall rats at some point?
[00:08:39] Speaker A: That's true in our lives. So true.
[00:08:41] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: But, yeah, I don't disagree with you guys at all. I definitely understand. I think. I just appreciate the pacing has been fast so far because sometimes I think that is a big thing with Stranger Things.
[00:08:51] Speaker B: It feels like they can't, like, get it completely right. Like they haven't been able to get it completely right. Where it's like, not too fast, not too slow.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: It feels like I want a little
[00:09:01] Speaker A: bit of time to sit with these characters and see what's happening.
Like, there's some weird cuts. Like, with Billy especially, I was like, no, no. Like, let's stay with this for a little bit. Especially because the cold open was Billy, and then we didn't see him till halfway through the episode to continue the conversation.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: Yeah. I honestly think the reason why they're doing this is that since it's the second episode of the season, it's like they're trying to, like, put so much to invest us into continuing to watch the show. Because I think a lot of times with Stream, I think a lot of times with streaming shows, they, like, calculate the first couple minutes of, like, the first couple episodes to dictate if they should renew it or not. But. But stranger things are so big at this point that I feel like they shouldn't be afraid to slow down because so much happened that I can't even remember majority of bully scenes. And he's, like, going to have one of the most significant storylines of this of the season. And so for me to see, like, you know, Joyce more than him or to see, like, I don't even know, like, other people more than him, it's kind of just. Yeah. Oh,
[00:10:02] Speaker B: if I have to see one more scene of Mike standing there, like the fucking guy. Mike Wazowski from Monsters.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Haircut too, right?
[00:10:10] Speaker B: Him.
[00:10:10] Speaker C: Him and. Him and Will, like, their hair is so. Just dissolved.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: And then Will is just there. Can we play dnd?
[00:10:16] Speaker C: That's.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: I think his only line this entire episode was, can we play D and D? Can we play D and D now? I'm so.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Can we play D and D now?
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Like, we see you, sir. We see you in the middle, lost and confused.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: Him and his fuck ass Bob.
[00:10:30] Speaker C: He's like me, though. He's like me. He's like, can I play dbd? Can I play DBI Daylight guy? So play. So I'm tandem.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: Well, actually, Naj, you bring up a really interesting point with, you know, you're. They're trying to get viewers to watch and listen all that stuff because it's early on in this show. I bet you there's something to that, because that's something that they specifically noted. Like, when I was doing my research for the first two seasons, that Netflix noticed that episode two is the episode that will make or break the season, and it's the one that hooks people. And they noticed that last season because they saw, like, obviously, the.
What's the words when you're looking at all the data and stuff. They saw the metrics and everything. Yeah, the analysis, the metrics. They saw that. That and realized, oh, it's episode two that hooks people.
And that's the one that will determine whether people will continue the rest of the show. So I bet you this episode was made like this so that people would continue on to the next episode. The fast pace to keep people engaged, not get too bored. Introduc. Every single possible character, plot, line, story, everything in this one so that something will hook you. Maybe one. It's like throwing spaghetti at the wall. Maybe one of them will stick.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Would have hooked anybody right off the bat like that.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Well, that's why it's the cold open. And that's why they didn't continue it till halfway. And then at the very end of the episode, they're pacing it on purpose so that you will continue and watch the next episode.
We're watching how streaming is changing before our eyes between the difference between season one to now, the way they're blocking things is it's intentional to get you to watch the Next episode.
So changing.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: I'm gonna watch it. I have to watch it.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Did you start watching the next episode?
[00:12:14] Speaker B: It started, but I. I stopped. I was like, I'm gonna wait until next week.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: Self control. Self control.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: I know, it's admirable, honestly. But that's just because she doesn't want to watch the episode twice for the next time.
All right, so the episode is entitled the Mall Rats. It's a direct nod to Kevin Smith's 1995 cult classic film Mall Rats, which celebrated the youth culture surrounding shopping malls.
Obviously, the Duffer brothers wanted this episode to capture that exact mid-80s phenomenon where the climate controlled mall became the absolute social epicenter for teenagers, completely killing off the traditional downtown business district. I also love the reference to the actual rats in the episode as well as to what the kids are doing this episode.
And I have, again, I have a whole quote later on where we'll talk about kind of like the mall even almost being its own character this season. And there's like a whole, you know, reason for it and everything. But I. Okay, so I have a couple things. So first of all, let's jump into the Reddit stuff because they were really funny this time. So the top comment is confirmed. Mike only made up the friends don't lie thing because he's a terrible liar.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: Like, Mike, what the hell, bro? He just kept digging himself a hole. I'm like, you can stop now.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Oh, Reddit, though, was all of them.
Like, he shouldn't be blamed because Hopper was intimidating him as a grown ass man. And like, you know, poor Mike and all this other stuff, he had so
[00:13:36] Speaker B: many outs even as a child. He had so many opportunities to be like, you know what? Like, I've taken it too far.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:43] Speaker B: When you start talking about Nana's gonna die, like, Mike, come on.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: And the mom hearing it, she's like, huh?
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Mom that called grandma.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: She's like, what?
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Nana almost put Karen in an early grave just by his lies.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Poor Karen. Just trying to stay in contact with her, what her kids are going through.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: Just trying to stay away from Billy's.
[00:14:05] Speaker A: I know she's doing everything she can.
[00:14:08] Speaker C: Oh, I forgot that even happened this season. I was like, she's even. She's even. I'm not gonna say anything until we get to that scene.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Hold it in, Naj. Hold it in.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: Save it, save it.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: The next Reddit quote, who is watching the pool? And somebody else said, meanwhile, lard ass is running happily around the pool. And then the last comment is, Barbara. Barbara's watching the Pool.
[00:14:32] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Oh. Too soon.
Too soon.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: Barbara becoming the jokes.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Also, guys, the curse of anyone's with their name, starting with B is alive and strong. It seems so far this season with Billy.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: That is crazy, though.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: The Duffers. The Duffers. Once you can figure out their format, it's like you start figuring out the show.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: You're like.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: You crack the code.
[00:15:00] Speaker C: All right.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: Sadly, next one is Steve asking Elle if she's even allowed to be at the mall. Mom of the year.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: A single mom who works too hard.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: There he is. I paused.
Thank you, everyone.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Sway. Repeat after me.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Somewhere out there, someone's having a drinking game and they're like, damn it, Leia.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Every episode.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Every episode.
Another. Another comment. Have a feeling this is going to be a particularly sweaty season for Billy. You would be correct.
[00:15:34] Speaker B: He looks very unclean.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't look. Karen, stay far away from this.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: He looks like he smells.
[00:15:42] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Okay. And then for my fun facts for the episode. So I was originally. I had this whole thing. I was doing a lot of research on the Me Too movement because I felt like this is a great episode to talk about it with Nancy, and also because I was like, Max and Elle hanging together. I feel like. I know that Millie Bobby Brown had really pushed for a friendship with Sadie Sink's character, Max, because she was like, I really want to see them together. But I also do feel like how female friendship centered and stuff. This episode is. Is also a byproduct of the Me Too movement. Focus on, hey, let's represent women fairly and stuff. I came across some accusations against the Duffers, and I did not know this was a thing from recent. Like, it was during this time when the MeToo movement came out. And I. They must have some good pr. Netflix buried this or whatever someone out there probably remembers. I had no clue that this was happening at the time. So. Well, let's get into it. So I'm going to talk about the Me Too movement real fast, and then we'll jump into that. Look at me, teasing all of you. So in late 2017, right around when season two of this show aired, we started seeing the hashtag Me Too going around, famously started by Alyssa Milano from Charmed, where women would post about their experiences with sexual assault, abuse, harassment, and rape culture, specifically in the workplace. But it kind of branched out from there. Like, Me Too has really rippled out, and it's kind of become an encompassing thing for just any sort of misogyny against women and lack of inclusion and such. The phrase Me Too was initially used in this context, on social media around 2006, on MySpace by sexual assault survivor and activist Tarana Burke. And obviously this is a widespread problem, but its face was Hollywood when film producer Harvey Weinstein was accused and then eventually prosecuted and jailed. And then in August 2021, the Washington Post analyzed the impact of Me Too on changing behavior.
The article states there was a surge of reports of sexual assault in the 12 months preceding October 2018, but that many of the claims related to people coming forward regarding past incidents. The article shows a mixed picture regarding changing behavior, with a significantly smaller percentage of women having experienced sexual coercion or unwanted sexual attention at the office in 2018 in comparison to 20, but with a sharp rise in subtler forms of behaviors that do not rise to the level of illegal sexual harassment, such as jokes about what is still allowed or telling inappropriate stories, which may have come as backlash to the MeToo movement. The article notes that in response to the MeToo movement, 19 states have enacted new sexual harassment protections for victims. More than 200 bills were introduced in state legislatures to deter harassment. Britannica.com talks about how the MeToo movement's legacy has broadened to encompass issues related to gender equity in the workplace and legal reforms to eliminate barriers that have prohibited victims from coming forward. Some US States have since abolished statute of limitations for reporting sexual crimes and banned non disclosure agreements that aim to keep misconduct allegations from the public's view. The movement has also led to changes in the workplace and society at large through the implementation of greater safeguards and educational tools that aim to change behavior in future generations. Like I don't think it can be overstated how much the MeToo movement has impacted almost every area of life. It's hard to remember for us like a time when the Me Too movement wasn't so like it just feels like it changed culture at its core in a lot of ways. Obviously we still have a lot of work to do, but I just think back to the things that were allowed or not we just kind of turned a blind eye to in a lot of ways before all of that happened.
Some of the things that have happened since the MeToo movement, I mean the sports, US gymnastics doctor Larry Nassar with all that stuff with the gymnastics team, Music with Kasha, Dr. Luke Brendan Frazier getting a resurgence with his career after stepping back from Hollywood after being assaulted by a producer, an exec P. Diddy R. Kelly. In the religious circles, there have been huge bombshells with the sbc. That's the Southern Baptist conventions having tons of investigations and Questioning of the lack of inclusion of women in religious leadership spaces. And of course, Epstein Files now. Like, it just, it's had a ripple effect in so many ways.
And specifically with Stranger Things, Netflix was impacted by this. Most famously around this time, Kevin Spacey from House of Cards and Danny Masterson from the Ranch, both being fired because of rape allegations and sexual abuse. So mind you, all of this stuff is happening around the time that this season two aired, right at the same time that MeToo movement exploded and stuff. So season three is going to be directly impacted. Then you have all the Netflix allegations. And I mean, House of Cards is like a tent pole for Netflix. It was one of the first shows Netflix started airing at all.
So then the Duffers start to hit a little bit of controversy with season two, as we talked about with Sadie Sink and Caleb McLaughlin's Their Kiss, where people were like, hey, we think that's a little bit iffy, especially because Sadie didn't know that that was happening and stuff. So we talked about all of that. Well, then in March 2018. So season two airs in October 2017, March 2018, the Duffers, everyone. Netflix is getting prepared to do season three. And Peyton Brown, a former crew member on Stranger Things, I believe she worked as a grip, came forward on Instagram on National Women's Day and said, I guess there's no better day than National Women's Day to say time's up, and announced that I will not be a part of the filming of season three of Stranger Things. Why, you ask? Because I stand with my sisters. I personally witnessed two men in high positions of power on that set seek out and verbally abuse multiple women. I promised myself that if I were ever in a situation to say something that I would. I have 11.5000 followers who can hear me say, this time is up. Women in the in film industry are powerful and you can find that in Screen Rant and also in Daily Mail. So in follow up comments on the post, she said there was yelling, there were insults, there were threats, and people were even fired or forced to quit because of them.
Following the accusations, Lori Grabowski, a script supervisor for the series, also took to Instagram to reveal that she had been receiving end of the alleged allegations and the alleged abuse. By the way, she has an insane resume. She worked on Ugly Betty, the Expendables 2, Teen Wolf, the Lego Movie, Vampire Diaries, Age of Ultron, the Accountant, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Spider Man, Homecoming, Black Panther, Infinity War, Loki, New Girl, and so, so, so, so much more. This girl is insane. In her post she says, I am one of those women Peyton referred to referenced. It was very real, not only to me, but other women on the set that also want to share their story. Peyton Brown witnessed not but the similar experiences of others. I don't know Ms. Brown very well, but what I do know is there's absolutely nothing false about her statement. Myself and other women who are willing to share their stories of our experiences on the set of Stranger Things are living proof. I was the script supervisor of the show for nearly two full seasons. I just could not stand by and let Peyton be called a liar because what she said is unfortunately very true.
Speaking to the Hollywood Reporter on the Saturday after that, the Duffers issued a public apology saying due to the high stress nature of the of the production, tempers occasionally get frayed and for that we apologize. However, we think it is important not to mischaracterize our set where we believe strongly in treating everyone fairly, regardless of gender orientation, race, religion or anything else. We remain totally committed to providing a safe and collaborative working environment for everyone on our productions, netflix added. We looked into the concern that was raised when we heard of the allegations on Friday and found no wrongdoing. Maintaining a safe, respectable atmosphere on set is important to us and we know it is to the Duffer brothers as well. Brown then reiterated to Daily Mail that she stands behind her post. Grabowski statement supports her claims as well. She says, I stand behind my original post. I personally witnessed the Duffer Brothers, so she names him by name. The Duffer brothers verbally abuse women on multiple occasions. I do not want to be a part of that atmosphere, she said. And then she says two women have already come out publicly to say that they experienced abuse and there will be more. Netflix's in quotations in investigation could not have been very thorough. They did not follow up with other women whose names I gave them before releasing that statement.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: Oh my God.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Mind you, mind you though, like this is when two other shows are experiencing.
It could be maybe slightly after, slightly before. I'm not sure the exact timeline of when all the Kevin Spacey other stuff happened in in association with that, but it's just very interesting they would have an incentive. I mean Netflix, I mean Stranger Things was like one of the highest grossing things for Netflix that has remained really pivotal for them. It would make sense that they would have more skin in the game and if they go, okay, it was just yelling, it was just verbal harassment. It wasn't anything sexual, okay, we'll give them a slap on the Wrist and give them a pass. And it. It also kind of calls into question some of the stuff that happened with Millie, Bobby Brown and David Harbour later on, where David Harbour maybe felt like he was a little more comfortable to do those stuff because that was already the tone that was set because of the Duffers, so.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Wow. That's crazy.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: There was one lady that kind of came out. She didn't necessarily say anything about standing up to the Duffers, but she would post, like, best set I've ever worked at, best bosses I've ever worked at, and they end up finding out later that she was most likely dating Matt Duffer.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Oh, she was just hyping the set.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: Just, you know, she was hyping up
[00:25:17] Speaker B: her little walking advertisement.
[00:25:20] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: So, yeah, I had no clue about any of that stuff.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: I had no idea either.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: That's crazy. Very interesting.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Is there any set that isn't toxic at this point?
[00:25:32] Speaker A: I don't even know.
Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Like, it just sounds like maybe men
[00:25:37] Speaker A: shouldn't be in charge.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like maybe there needs to be something else going on on set.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah, That's. That's unfortunate.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: It is unfortunate. So, like, it's just. And again, I say all these things because I think it's so. We don't live in a. We don't live in a bubble. All everything is. Is created and influenced by the culture and the things that are happening around that. Just like with angel, like, the stuff that happens on screen is influenced by real life stuff happening. You know, you have characters that have to leave, you have actors that sometimes pass away and you can't continue their storylines and stuff, like, outside stuff influences what often happens to the characters. And so I think sometimes having that context, it. It allows us to look at things critically. And I think with season three, the MeToo movement heavily, I believe, impacts. I mean, Nancy's storyline 100, I believe, is impacted by everything with me. There's actually even a quote from Natalia Dyer later on talking about that. But I think I. I sometimes wonder if all of the Max and L friendship and stuff like that. Although, great storyline. Love it so much. I'm. I'm. Like, how much of this stuff was included and emphasized because the Duffers maybe were overcompensating. Look, we love women. We love women. Look at us doing all this stuff, you know?
But, yeah, I mean, I think at
[00:27:00] Speaker B: the end of the day, whether it's that or not, like, it's good to have it either way.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Like, it's. It's. I think it, like, adds to the show. It doesn't. It doesn't seem cheap.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: No.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: At least to me, you know.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Because girls have friendships in real life with other girls, you know? Like, I think it's.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: It's a natural progression of, like, Elle's character.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And it's really refreshing.
[00:27:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And it makes sense because, like, even though, you know, right now it happened in second episode, season three, I feel like at some point they would, you know, interact because they're dating two people that are, like, obviously in the same friend group together. So if it wouldn't have happened, then it would have happened for, like, later down the line if they would have brought everybody together. So to me, it didn't feel forced, especially where it kind of makes. It kind of makes me happy that, like, Elle felt safe enough to talk to Max about it, especially when, like, last time they saw each other was, like, 208. And she, like, ignored her when she, like, had the reunion. So. So the fact that something changed over the six months of them, her dating Mike to where she felt comfortable enough to talk to Max, either she must have heard about Max and, like, Lucas constantly breaking up to, like, have a understanding of how to know what happens. But I like that she, like, approached her and even know where she was at, because, like, who did she find that out by? Or did she, like, just, you know, use her powers to find her? I liked it. And also, like, the actor's chemistry in real life also made it more believable to me.
So, I mean, that's one of my favorite friendships on the show. So.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: But it's awesome. I love Max, so. Same.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: Same.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: She's the best character of the show, sadly.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: Oh, I agree.
Agreed for sure.
So, all right, well, let's jump in. So we are at the abandoned Steelworks mill. Thank God. Starting from where we left off, because everybody wants to know what happened. We get some really cool shots and cuts. Honestly, I was. I really enjoyed the sequence of events. I like the way that they. They spliced it together. It created this anticipation kind of how we were like. We see Billy coming out of the mill. He's bloody, screaming. He's slimy. He's traumatized. And the quick cuts kind of add to that suspense and really add to the energy of the season.
So he's terrified. He looks back at the entrance. We hear oozing, bubbling. And then he makes it to his car, which miraculously works now. And then speeds off to payphone to call 91 1. And then as the Operator asks him what his emergency is. He flashes back to being dragged down to the basement by the tentacles and.
And then this tentacles, like, pumping into him like it did with Will.
And I'm like, oh, oh, all right then.
And then the lights just flash. The dispatcher's voice gets distorted and then boom. Billy's in the Upside Down. Guys, we're in the Upside Down. We like, didn't go to the Upside down at all like last.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: Yeah. This whole scene is so spooky. And I love the way they shot everything in this scene.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Did you guys hear the clock bell chimes multiple times throughout the episode?
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Wait, think so as soon.
[00:29:47] Speaker A: As soon as boom. Billy is in the Upside down, he walks out and you realize he is. You hear the bell chime. And then it happens pretty much through all of Billy's scenes.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Constant wonder what that is.
[00:30:00] Speaker C: I'm not gonna lie. That is.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: Something. Yeah, that is good. That is. I'm have to relisten cuz like, I think I heard it a little bit, but I didn't know it was like a constant thing. So I'm have to like relisten because got some good story to chilling, some good food.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Good soup. Then we see a couple of people marching towards him. And then he's like, what do you want? We see red lightning flashing and then one of the people approaches and it's Billy himself talking to him.
Quite honestly, I think one of the most intriguing cold opens we've had on the show so far. I was locked.
Oh, they give me more of this. I want more of this.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: It's not anything that we've ever seen before.
I feel like.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Yeah, because like, I think when. When even when Will had like that connection with the Upside down, he didn't like directly talk to it. He talked about it. He talked about like the. The presence of, you know, the Upside down and like, how he can feel it. But like to actually talk to it and actually like the fact that I don't know what.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: It's a material thing.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Like we kind of saw like that. Yeah. Like the entity was actually kind of like smart because it was talking to like, billion and already like having a plan and he kind of gives some something else. You know, I stay around, so tick tock, tick tock.
But I like. And also I think what's called Daiquiri, the actor that plays Billy, he truly sold this because like, you saw little bits and pieces, but like you kind of like truly see that he's like, confused.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: And one of the most Funniest lines is like, I don't understand.
Yeah, but, like, you never, like, we never had an interaction with we all. When you, like, saw, like, you know, them killing people, like, you know, Barb, or like, what Will was witnessing, but this is the first time he made his presence known.
And to talk to a human about what it wants.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that means it's sentient and it
[00:31:54] Speaker C: has, like, some type of, like, knowledge of, like, what we're doing and what it can have us do for it. So now it's like, okay, so what is the next step? And why Billy? Because, like, for me, just, like, Billy doesn't have a connection to, like, the group that kind of, like, defeated, you know, this upside down entity. So for it to choose Billy and be like, I want you to build it was so. I don't know, I just was like, yeah. I remember watching it for the first time during the summer, and that's one of, like, my. It was one of my favorite episodes. That's why I chose this episode. Like, the whole premise of him and how it started was so intriguing because for him, he just got done talking to, like. Like, you know, trying to get a little hookup, and he comes there and it just chooses him at this right time, like, this bad boy who's, like, misunderstood, has a shitty life and. Oh, oh, hold on.
Did something just hit the shitty life?
Oh, that is so insane. That is so insane.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: Well, I mean, same. Same with Will. I mean, there's. There's a. There's a reason these people are maybe being chosen.
[00:32:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:55] Speaker A: Their names. Their names all start with William.
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Why do.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: You almost had me, Will and Bill.
[00:33:03] Speaker C: I was like, well, you change your perspective.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: No, but you're right, though. Like, yeah, it's. It's fun to go back and see these things and be like, oh, I like it when things actually connect and make sense. And at this point, like, I think the writers are aware of where they're going, which is always nice, which they have to, because 1 and 2 were very much their own thing. And you can tell they're building to something else now.
All right, so now outside Hopper's cabin, L is pacing outside. Mike hasn't shown up. She goes to the phone. Hopper's like, everything okay? He knows it's not. An exasperated Karen answers the phone. And at this point, we don't know if she's gone to the motel and is upset that Billy didn't show or what. So she calls for Mike. We're like, oh, I see where Mike gets it from the Wheelers just stay yelling at each other in this house. He's pacing in the basement, looks terrified as he answers. Ella's like, it's 9:32. Where are you? And he's like, like, I. I just can't see you today, cuz Nana's sick. El's like, that's not what Hopper said. Mike scrambles. It's like, yeah, that's what we thought at first, but now we think she might die. Karen's listening and she's like, what?
[00:34:08] Speaker B: He could have stopped at any moment. Genuinely.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: He could have just said, hey, I just don't really feel like hanging out today.
[00:34:15] Speaker C: That's it.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know if he could have said that.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Yeah, she would have blown. Blown up the house and flown over.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: She would have come. Come over, like, right away.
[00:34:24] Speaker C: He would have said, no, I don't think that's true.
He's like, you know, I want to tell my. My guy friends. We're friends. Mike don't lie.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: Friends don't lie to friends.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: He's like, mom says I can't come over. And she's like, I did not.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like, what?
[00:34:41] Speaker A: But like, that's when you talk to your mom and say, hey, mom, I really don't want to hang out with people today. Can you cover for me? You know.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: That's what moms are for.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: You.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what moms are for.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: But then they, you know, there's a huge miscommunication. And Elle's like, you're like, I like. I like how. She's like, do you lie? Mike's like, no, friends don't lie. And then he's like, I'll see you later. And she's like, smelling the BS and is upset. So then she ignores Hopper, who's like, what's going on? Playing all dumb. And then she goes back in her room, and we see him looking super smug. And then we hear you don't mess around with Jim playing. And he's like, singing along to it in the car. Same song he was. Was dancing to when him and Elle were cleaning up the cabin in season two. He's celebrating. He drives straight to Mug, where Joyce is at in Melvald's, rolls in and is like, emotions have been shared. Boundaries have been set. Order has been restored. And she's like, it worked. He's like, yes, this is the first day in six long, excruciating months that they will not be seeing each other. I'm like, bruh, you're the parent. You do need to set some boundaries. Every day for six months. Okay, okay, guys, that's crazy. That is crazy.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: Do they not have, like, school or, like, to sleep or to shower?
[00:35:51] Speaker C: Right? Do he. Do he teach her, like, before this summer thing? Has. Did he teach her this?
[00:35:56] Speaker B: Like.
[00:35:56] Speaker C: Cuz I don't know. I'm like, at this point, it's like, granted, yes, but you're also the parent. You were strict in season two, and then like, that one blow happened. You. Me. Tell me you never put your foot down ever again. Six months have you been teaching, like, so is El here?
Sitting in this house, this little cabin house, not learning anything, making out and
[00:36:15] Speaker B: locking lips with Mike.
[00:36:18] Speaker A: No wonder. Like, they're spending all their time doing this because she can't really do much of anything. She can't go to the mall. That's the point. Like, because it would be too much exposure for other people. And I don't know. I think I'm a little frustrated. Like, as entertaining as it is, I'm a little frustrated because it feels like we've almost gone back a little bit with Hopper and Elle. It's almost like we're doing the same thing we did in season two, where they get into a big fight and then Elle decides to rebel and goes and does something that there's going to be some sort of consequences for doing all of that, you know? And like, I. I would have hoped that their communication would get a little bit better after their really sweet conversation.
Okay. Sometimes it can be, like, come up with new conflicts. Okay, that's.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: No, that's worry. They will have that too.
[00:37:01] Speaker C: Right. The conflict should have been her learning and worry about what she should do after summer's over. But alas, let's make it about a boy.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: How about her literacy? Can she read at this point?
[00:37:13] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: Well, I don't know about that.
[00:37:15] Speaker C: Or. Or did she. Right.
Or did she actually buy the stuff, you know, at the mall? Did Max help her, you know, count? Yeah.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: I want to know where they're getting that money from.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: Just who's buying this stuff? Like, did they.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Mike is like, I have $3 and 50 cents. And I'm like. In my head, I'm like, so what is that worth in 1980? Whatever.
Yeah, literally worth $20, maybe.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Not. Not a gold pin.
So then Joyce is clapping Hopper's like, no, it was all you. He's like, I just improvised a little. And he's like, getting to Mike. That was the key. And then he's like, I'll tell you more at dinner tonight at Enzo's.
And then Joyce starts to refuse. This is the second time we've seen her hem and haw about this. He talks her into it, tells her, oh, it's not a date. And she's like, oh, I never thought it was. And then they, like, kind of do this little dance sense of, oh, no, I didn't think it was a date. No. And I can't quite get a read on whether or not Joyce likes Hopper or not. Like, we. We see that he likes her, but I'm like, does Joyce like Hopper or is she just being avoidant?
[00:38:15] Speaker B: I think she's being avoidant.
I feel like you can see, like. Like, little bits of her interests shining through. Okay.
Like, when they're bantering and doing all that stuff, like, you can kind of see that there's, like, you know, she's into it. It. But I feel like she's definitely very, like, closed off and for sure doesn't really want to go there.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
I also feel like maybe it's also because it's been. I'm assuming that if it's been six months since, you know, he said six months. Maybe that's been six months since season two ended. So it could have been around six months to maybe a year since, you know, Bob died. So maybe she's still maybe grieving that or, like, you know, because it probably took a while for her to actually give Bob a chance since, you know, Will's parent. I mean, her father, their father. But I don't know. I feel like I saw the chemistry there. Maybe just feel like maybe Joyce doesn't want to go over that line because there they have so many connections with, like, the kids and other families. And, like, they're. They had. They know, like, this. They know the situation about the Upside Down. So I don't think she wants to, like, like, you know, get close to him because obviously, when she gave Bob that, like, you know, that enter. Intermingle into her world, he died literally right after. After. So I think she don't want to, like, make another step, another commitment in case something else happens, because she already got, like, an inkling of, like, oh, something's wrong because of the magnets. Like, so for her, she's like, something wrong is happening the same time that, you know, he wants to, like, go out. Maybe she's protecting herself. That's what I feel like she's doing.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: I think Joyce is traumatized.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:39:44] Speaker C: 100.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: She's real traumatized. And she's Just like, not in. In a place. Place to.
[00:39:50] Speaker A: Maybe she has just been suppressing her own needs for so long that she just doesn't know who she is or what she wants apart from being. Suppressing Jonathan's needs.
[00:40:00] Speaker C: Suppressing her needs.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: You know, it's just a day in the life of Joyce, but it's almost like her personality was so intertwined with Will's the first two seasons that I. I wouldn't be surprised if Joyce just doesn't know who she is apart from all of that stuff. And maybe, like, scares her, you know?
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: You know, not me, you know, speaking my own experience. But anyway, so then.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Damn.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: No. Okay. So then the Powell radios over and is like, hey, people are protesting the mall at town hall. You need to get over here. And then Hopper goes, and a bunch of magnets fall down, catching Joyce's attention.
Oh, second time suspicious I've seen this. Yeah, I know. Joyce is observing everything. Everything except for Jonathan.
And then at Hawkins Post, Nancy's getting coffee ready, still thinking about the message on the notepad. She accidentally spills Some, of course, is mocked by all the men calling her Nancy Drew. She ends up talking to Tom, the editor, and asks if another girl can grab lunch since she has a doctor's visit with girl problems. I was like, yeah, girl. You use that misogyny to your advantage. You do that. So then she grabs Jonathan, who doesn't think it's a good idea, and wants to ask for permission from Tom. But Nancy knows he won't let her go, and the story could be a good one. She thinks that she'll redeem herself. She's like, if I write a great story, they're finally gonna see me. And. No, no, that's not how it works, guys. You just.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: They'll just take the credit and.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Or. Or they'll minimize it. They'll minimize it. Or they'll find, like, men. Men just. They can't.
They're just especially misogynistic men. They can't possibly applaud a woman for hard work and for doing her stuff, because that would mean a dissembling of all of the things they believe about women and their own view of themselves.
[00:41:50] Speaker C: So.
[00:41:51] Speaker B: Yeah, but you know what?
[00:41:53] Speaker A: You do the work, Nancy, and you do it for yourself.
[00:41:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:57] Speaker A: In an interview with the Hollywood Reporter in studio, Natalia Dyer talks about Nancy facing sexism in the workplace amid the Me Too climate. Nancy storyline is certainly still as relevant as ever. And this is something that isn't lost on Dyer. While the interactions with her colleagues are hard to watch. The actor explained that it gave her character a chance to deal with a different kind of conflict. It was happening then, it's still happening. But I think to see that in a show, that's very fun and there's a lot of fun elements and it's a fun thing to watch. I'm glad they threw that in there and gave Nancy this chance to push up against a different kind of conflict, says Dyer. Because she's grown into a woman who's confident and she knows she's smart. But this is one of the first times that the world is pushing back. It's so relatable. And of course, it's a period show and to see that and be like, oh, yeah, the 80s. But to recognize that people are obviously still feeling this so much, it's easy for me to go in there. I know what this feels like, Dyer said. Of course I do know what this feels like. To be looked down upon older men and underestimated. And I think that's a very relatable thing. So I'm very curious to see how people react. I love it. I love this storyline. I think it's fantastic.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it just adds to the fact that Nancy is a badass. Like, she, she like, like Natalia Dyer said, like, this is an additional conflict that she has to deal with. But also it's just. It just goes to show, like, how feisty she is.
Like, she's like, you know, I love the attitude of, like, ask for forgiveness later. Like, don't ask permission, just ask for forgiveness. And that's. That's so Nancy.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: Like, she will just dive head in.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah. But I also think it's such a beautiful progression of what we've seen at the past couple seasons, because in season one, she was such a rule follower. She didn't want to do all of this stuff. And I think having that experience of being ostracized based upon her sex, I think people were not giving her the benefit of the doubt because of all of that. And so because of that, she learned to just not care as much about what people think and to just do what she wants anyway. And her becoming a journalist is such a natural progression of all of that,
[00:44:01] Speaker B: you know, 1 million percent. Especially with, you know, her role in season one just being so hell bent on, like, finding out what happened to Barb, like, that was her. And then season two even.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah. With releasing the tapes and everything.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Love it.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: I agree.
So at the Starcourt Mall, Dustin pulls up to the ice cream place. And announces himself to Robin, who has no clue who he is is. Dustin's like, is he here? Steve, who is in the back and has his Dustin radar set off, bursts out nautical music akin to spongebob plays. Both boys are giggling and cheering. They do secret handshake in front of Robin, who's so confused, and says, how many children are you friends with?
She's like, loser.
[00:44:49] Speaker C: That's their mother.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: That's not their friend.
[00:44:52] Speaker C: That's brotherhood.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:44:53] Speaker C: That is motherhead. Not too much.
Not too much.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: Also, he doesn't have teeth again.
[00:45:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, they were starting to grow in, but they're still not, like, fully developed. That was so funny. They're catching up, and he's like, she says, it's okay. Kissing is better without teeth. And you can see Steve's processing this and being like, you know what?
[00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you know what?
[00:45:15] Speaker A: Proud of you, man.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Good for you.
[00:45:16] Speaker A: That's. That's kind of romantic.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: Kind of romantic. Isn't he? Right?
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Meanwhile, literally anyone else would have been like, ew, Ew.
[00:45:27] Speaker B: I love. I love a supportive mother.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: And then he asks where everyone else is. Dustin says they ditched him and that they will regret it because he found a secret Russian communication. And then he recruits Steve's help by promising that they could be true American heroes and get all the ladies they want if he would just help him with the translation. I like the little, like, bits of growth they have done with each of these characters. Like, we definitely get the vibe. It. It feels realistic that Dustin has grown up a little bit. Like, in the. In the last season, he looked up to Steve so much, and this one, he still looks up, but I feel like they're a little bit more on an even ground as far as almost life experience in some ways, because Dustin's a little bit older now, and, like, he's like, I have a girlfriend now, and you don't. So therefore, like, you should listen to me, you know, like, he's bribing Steve almost, but it's like, first of all, on Brand for Dustin's ego, but also, like, it makes sense with their friendship.
[00:46:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:25] Speaker C: And their friendship is just so organic to me. I just feel like one thing I loved about this season was that, like, everybody, they're like, the relationships and their development was definitely seen. Like, Nancy, her storyline and her progression makes sense compared to season one. Steve and. And, you know, Dustin, their bonding makes sense. And, like, the fact that he even feels comfortable to, like, include him into this, like, investigation thing, because obviously last season, he was like, Dustin was Along with that Demogorgon baby. So he has. He has somebody that can, like, you know, nibble on his delusions while his other friends are doing other things. Yeah, he has, like, a little. He has, like, a buddy that can, like, be like, yeah, Dustin, I won't judge you. Let me go ahead and help you with this Russian translation. And he even gained a buddy Robin, who's, like, judging both of them in the back.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: Yeah, the dynamic is very cool.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And I really. I'm enjoying Robin hurt. Very dry sense of humor. They've somehow managed to create another very distinct. I know this is, like, the bar is so low, but they've managed to create another distinct female character. Guys. And they're not all cookie cutter. Like, I really am enjoying how dynamic the girl group is in the show, and it's really refreshing.
So at the Mayfield house, Max is practicing her skateboarding. This is the scene Naj was talking about earlier. Elle shows up again. I agree with you. I think L being the one to approach Max is really huge. And then so she tells Max everything, and Max is like, he's a piece of. Immediately just supportive. She tells L that Mike is lying. She thinks he and Lucas are playing Atari. And then we cut to Mike. I just really love that they do the back and forth with Mike and Lucas, their dynamic, while you also have the perspective of Elle and Max. And then Max is like, if he doesn't fix this or explain, dump his ass. And El slowly gets on board and is like, okay, I think I can do this. And in the basement, Mike's groaning in rage. Lucas goes into damage mode, tells him that he can fix this, that he himself has made thousands of mistakes, and that Max has dumped him five times so far, and that he has six months.
[00:48:25] Speaker C: Is it a span of six months?
[00:48:27] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:48:29] Speaker C: Like, I need to know what made her so angry that she, like, Lucas. What did you do? And how much money did you have to, like, constantly buy? Like, four to five gifts? Seriously?
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Literally $5 here, $5 there. This man is broke.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: I think one of the reasons Elle goes to Max is because Max has such a sense of self and confidence that you can tell she doesn't need Lucas.
She keeps him around because she enjoys him, but he's not someone that she has kind of absorbed her identity with.
Unlike the last episode with Ellen, Mike, where it's like they're joined at the hip almost.
[00:49:06] Speaker B: They're literally like that meme. Like, literally that meme.
[00:49:08] Speaker C: Yeah, the aliens that are holding. Yeah.
Caressing each other. Caressing a little Coconut, coconut bank.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Looking all translucent and shit it.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: But I think part of the reason why there's almost this weird codependency between Elle and Mike and I think that's what this episode is about is Elle has no sense of identity and no sense of self apart from Mike. She doesn't know how to form that because she's always been latched onto some sort of man because that's how she was created. She was groomed that way, not created, but that's how she was, you know, raised.
So I think Elle is looking at Matt Acts for guidance here. And how do you have this sense of self that's not defined by a man and a boy? And I think this episode is so needed. It's so needed.
I feel very passionately about this, guys. Okay, so then the. They all decide to go take off and do something. And Mike and Lucas are like, let's go buy a gift. And poor Will, this entire time has been setting up the dnd.
And his voice, it's like cracking. Hey, guys, I'm still here, girl.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: We've moved on from dnd. Like, let's.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: But he was stuck in the Upside down for like two of his childhood years.
[00:50:24] Speaker B: He was playing real childhood back.
He was fighting real monsters.
[00:50:34] Speaker A: He's singing Taylor Swift.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
He would too. One million. He would.
[00:50:39] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, well, Noah staff is a huge swifty, which is hilarious.
[00:50:42] Speaker B: Oh, is busy. Of course.
My jaw remained upright.
[00:50:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
So at the pool, the female lifeguard is reprimanding some boys playing in the pool and all the middle aged moms find her annoying. And I'm like, I know I'm supposed. It's supposed to read as if they just want Billy out there, but this is such a real problem in real life where middle aged women are like hating on and jealous of younger women. So like even her noise or her voice is annoying. And so they're like anticipating Billy's arrival. Karen looks anxious. She sees Billy go off to like a storage area where all the chemicals and stuff are and before he comes out. And so she goes back there to talk to him. He has his back to her. He looks horrible. He's sweaty. And then she reads his body language, is angry, tries to explain why she didn't show up the night before. And we're like, oh, you didn't go, Karen.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: God.
[00:51:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Thank goodness.
[00:51:34] Speaker B: Because that's a teen. That's a teenager.
[00:51:36] Speaker A: Embarrassing and also illegal and also.
[00:51:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Pedophile.
[00:51:40] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:51:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:42] Speaker A: Hey, Drake. Just kidding. And then so Then she's, like, getting closer to him, talking to him about how she's a family, she can't hurt them. He looks like he's, like, wrestling with something within himself. He whips around and smashes Karen's head into the shelves. And then we cut, and we're like, what's going on? He's gonna kill Karen. But it's a fake breakout. We see Billy, like, sweating, crying. When we come back to it, like, Dacre is doing such a good job of just, like. You could see the stress on his turmoil. Yeah. Karen's right behind him. She's just fine. We realize that he's fighting himself to not hurt her. He finally faces her, tells her to stay away from him before walking away. And let me tell you, this scene has been the.
Like, in. In the. Like, the build up to season five was, like, one of the most, like, theorized moments of the show because people were like, how does Karen tie into the end season? And yada, yada.
[00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember. I remember there was, like, all this stuff. They were like, karen is this person. Karen is that person. Karen is the key to everything. And I'm like, what?
[00:52:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:49] Speaker A: I mean, guess what? She wasn't.
[00:52:51] Speaker C: She wasn't. She was. She was a mother.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: I mean, she was a badass. Yeah, she's a badass ass woman. But.
[00:52:58] Speaker A: So then outside, Billy is struggling to stay in the heat and the sun. He does his usual walk to his lifeguard station. If we remember anything. Yes, I was going to say, if we remember anything from season two, it likes it cold.
All right. Back at Scoops Ahoy, Erica is taking full advantage of the samples, as she should. What a queen. Much to Robin's disgruntlement. Robin calls for reinforcements, but Steve and Dustin are listening to the recording of the Russians. Steve notes that the music playing on the recording sounds familiar. Robin comes in. She's fed up with having to do literally everything. And then she's like, hey, guys, I know everything you're doing anyway. I know you're trying to decipher this thing. I know it's like Russian. And I speak four languages. And Dustin's like, russian. And she responds in pig Latin, but both of them are idiots and don't know the difference. They're, like, super impressed.
And then she's like, it's pig Latin. And then Steve slaps. Dustin is like, idiot.
[00:53:55] Speaker C: No. He was like, he's a liar.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: It's just so funny. She's like, I know four languages. So that automatically means that she's gonna be Able to, like, learn Russian. Yeah. And figure out, decode the Russian.
[00:54:08] Speaker A: Willow's good with computers, therefore that means she can, you know, go through or,
[00:54:13] Speaker B: like, Wesley is a librarian, so therefore he's good with books and stuff. So therefore he can give birth to a vampire. Yeah.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Fred is a physicist. She can go in, like, work with a. The wires in an elevator.
[00:54:30] Speaker B: Elevator. Or like an entire security. Highly.
[00:54:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Technological security system.
[00:54:35] Speaker A: Everything falls under the umbrella of smart.
[00:54:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:39] Speaker C: It gets to a point. You do?
Yes.
[00:54:42] Speaker A: At the Driscoll house, Nancy and Jonathan show up the old lady who called the reports about the rat. Rats. She's so nice. She's sweet. She leads them through where, like, something's. Something's wrong. Anytime you have a sweet old lady.
[00:54:53] Speaker B: No, yeah, I was gonna say I was expecting the Demogorgon to, like, pop out of her skin or something.
[00:54:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Like that lady that had the alien that came out of her head in Double Meat palace or something like that.
[00:55:03] Speaker C: That's literally what I envisioned.
[00:55:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:05] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:55:05] Speaker A: That's what I was thinking.
Yeah. Sorry, everyone. Hope you aren't eating right now. The Nancy app asks how she knows that her bags of fertilizer have been torn into and consumed by rats. Mrs. Driscoll takes her down to the basement, says that there is something not right about them, suspects rabies. And then when they hear this banging noise, and she's like, oh, yeah, and I caught one, by the way. And we just see this cage covered with blankets, just rattling around everywhere. Then we're at town hall. People are still protesting. We see Jim in the hallway. We. We see this Terminator looking guy, like, the back of him. They make it seem like it's this huge, like, mystery and stuff. But we. We all saw him in the cold open from the first episode.
And he's, like, following Jim around, I guess.
Then we meet the mayor, Larry, played by the legend Carrie Elwes from Princess Bride. Robin Hood. Men in tights, saw Ella Enchanted. He's basically the king of camp. And you can tell Hop just does not like this guy. Larry wants Hopper to put a stop to the people protesting, saying that they blame him for the mall taking over. There are shops closing, but that's not his fault. That's just how capitalism works. Sounds like every billionaire trying to open a data center right now. Why are you guys using so much water?
Should have thought of that before you became peasants.
You can't stop progress. It's the American way. Hop's not buying it and is like, they have a right to protest. And Larry's like, sure, sure. But they're supposed to have a permit, so it's within my right to get rid of them.
[00:56:26] Speaker B: You don't need a permit to protest.
[00:56:28] Speaker A: I think you do if you're on government property.
No, if you're on government property.
[00:56:33] Speaker B: There's no way. No, no way. I think this is made up.
[00:56:37] Speaker A: It's propaganda.
Yeah, from Larry.
[00:56:40] Speaker B: Larry protest.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: So hops like, I don't. I'm not a politician. But if you do this, it's going to make it look really bad for your popularity for re election. Larry ignores him smoking out of his cigar, looking out the window and talking about his giant fourth of July party that he's going to throw that will make all the people forget about all the mal fiasco stuff. And then America the Beautiful plays and Larry's like, hey, how about you just do your job because I can't plan the party if the protesters are making loud noise racist. And so then he's like, bye. Interesting. So this is what I was talking about before. So historical context, Time, history time with Sarah Woo. This is when everyone's eyes glaze over. No, but I promise it will link together. So the 80s saw a widening income gap, also increasing emphasis on materialism and thus a new yet old redefinition of the American dream. As the book owed to Gen X states. I'm going to be covering them heavily. So if you guys want to read more, that's where you can look at it up. The author talks about how the American dream always included some sense of being one's own boss and the idea that through hard work, individuals from across the social spectrum could attain a better, more fulfilling life. This egalitarian nature of the dream waned in the excess of the Roaring Twenties, but returned with a collectivist sort of view towards it after World War II. So there's this idea that if we all work together to help one another to achieve the American dream that really like rose up during and after the World War wars. Well then after that there was this idea that oh my gosh, big government and high taxes are going to destroy the American dream because you're just giving handouts to people. Sound familiar? It like it really is just cyclical. The twenties repeated in the eighties repeating now. So this, all of that fear that oh my gosh, you're giving handouts to people, that's basically going to take away from my ability to achieve the American dream. Everyone becomes very individualistic again about the American dream stops being so collective and that leads to the election of Reagan and The American dreams pendulum swings back towards individualistic and also materialistic. So now in the 80s, people are becoming disillusioned by the American dream because, surprise, surprise, Reagan economics don't work and because they're watching their job insecurities increasing, wages decreasing and even more income inequality. So there's a lack of options. This is all going to sound so familiar. There's now a lack of, lack of options for upward mobility for the new young generation. For the first time in American history, the youngest generation, Gen X at the time, is actually making less and has less opportunities for generational wealth and all that stuff than the generations before them. Up until now, each generation was making more money than the generations before. This is not happening anymore because the previous generations are hoarding all the wealth familiar. So we're seeing that play out.
[00:59:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:24] Speaker A: Four generations later.
[00:59:26] Speaker B: Oh my God, I'm so shocked.
[00:59:28] Speaker A: I know, I know. We're shocked by this.
[00:59:30] Speaker C: Retire already.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Jesus Christ. Still haunting us in the year 2026.
[00:59:35] Speaker B: Oh my God.
[00:59:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So they've been haunting everyone for a while. So we're seeing this play out in the show through our characters. So like Steve's working a mall job instead of being included in his dad's business.
Jonathan's desperation to keep his job because he's over there going, I have no opportunities probably for going to college. I'm not, I don't know, I, I don't have wealthy parents. Like, I just don't know what I'm going to do. And then Nancy wanting to break out of the mold because she sees that she's hitting the glass ceiling and it's limiting her. And so we've had subtle conversations with all the teens about their futures and all of them are aware that their options are limited. Again, everything today is repeating. Gen X watched age based entitlements watch once set aside for youth be redistributed to the elderly, causing Gen X to distrust the economy and the government and leading to them to be apathetic towards politics and placing little importance on citizenship and national identity compared to the predecessors. So in the 80s, patriotism became a really big thing that the government and Reagan was trying to really push upon the next generations as a way to help feed the capitalist machine. Gen X becomes cynical essentially. And because of this they have this materialistic attitude of taking back what's mine. Well, I don't have that generational wealth. I don't have any options. I don't have the opportunities of the American dream that my parents had. So basically I'm Just going to take, take, take whatever I can right now. And that's how they became so materialistic. They would spend a lot of money, money going to malls and doing all of this stuff as a way to acquire prestige that was associated with material goods. And that would equate to like, you know, your socioeconomic status. So the irony though is that in doing all of this, they're buying into and reinforcing the capitalistic structure that they're trying to rebel against.
So that term is called conspicuous consumption. Possessions are a marker of wealth. Wealth. So two historians of the 80s how and Strauss wrote Gen X absorbed the modern cultural message that their worth is not intrinsic, that they are only worth what others can see. For many coming of age Gen Xers, the more physical possessions they had, the better they felt about themselves. Have you guys ever seen Gen Xers with their china cabinets and like hoarding their many, many beanie babies and all that other stuff?
[01:01:58] Speaker B: Like they really are hoarders.
[01:02:00] Speaker A: They're hoarder. This is, this is a product of the athletes, ladies.
So Gen Xers also learned that money was reliable, unlike people having grown up in a childhood world that stressed private rights and liberties. They learned that families may leave you, neighbors may rob you, government may cheat you, but money is always faithful. A lot of Gen Xers went into debt in the 90s and 2000s, ironically because of this mentality. Throughout this book the author is giving tons of examples of this through movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Back to the Future, etc. It's also why Max takes Elle to the mall for shopping as a way to find herself or define herself via conspicuous consumption in a lot of ways. For teens at this time, the mall was their second home or their third space for them to hang out with each other. And it became its own microculture. So the amount of money you were spending, the clothes you were wearing, the stuff that you bought, became your currency, became how valuable you were in your friend group and you can move up the social ladder essentially.
There's an interesting metaphor here though. So the mayor's describing the mall as capitalism at work. And at the same time we see that there's a seedy underbelly with the Russians underneath it. With Mr. Clark talking about how something super large and expensive taking up electricity and power from people, which is clearly the mall, which is also a metaphor for capitalism. And then the mall is taking over the town. People are struggling to like put food on the table. It's causing division between people. And then let's compare that with the upside down and the mind flay wanting to build an army and is assimilating rats and people into a giant glob of flesh. And now we have Elle, who just wants a normal life, using the mall to define herself. And. Right. There's nothing wrong with Elle wanting a normal life, wanting to dress like her friends, do all the fun things and stuff. But it's interesting because in doing all this, Elle is assimilating herself into the culture around her and becoming more, quote, unquote, normal. So I wonder if the show is going to have a cost for Elle of giving up some of her otherness for this assimilation. And it'll be really interesting to see where we go with that this season with Elle and, like, all that stuff. So I thought that was interesting. And it kind of makes sense why all these working patterns or all the things that are happening together in the episode are all of kind. Kind of tying together. And. Yeah, they're. They're trying to show something again. It's kind of like Buffy season four, where it's like, don't give up your identity. Don't give up. Don't conform, essentially. So, Yeah, I thought that was interesting.
Anyway. All right, TED talk.
[01:04:37] Speaker B: Stop villainizing the mall.
Yeah.
[01:04:40] Speaker A: Or it just could just be the mall. It's just fun.
[01:04:43] Speaker B: I love them all.
[01:04:44] Speaker A: No. Yeah, it's totally fun.
[01:04:46] Speaker C: Please bring them all back.
[01:04:47] Speaker A: Totally fine. I know. I miss.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: Hey, I still go to the mall. Mall.
[01:04:51] Speaker A: All right. So now we're at the mall. Ellen, Max, get off the bus. And I was like, I'm against. It's against the rules. There's too many people. And Max is like, you have superpowers. What's the worst thing that could happen? I was like, oh, girl. It's not like she can erase people's memories of her. What is she gonna do?
[01:05:04] Speaker C: Like, right.
[01:05:05] Speaker A: Pick them up and against the wall?
[01:05:07] Speaker C: Break their brains or snap their necks?
[01:05:11] Speaker B: Pop their eyeballs.
[01:05:12] Speaker C: Oh. Oh.
[01:05:13] Speaker B: Oh.
[01:05:14] Speaker A: So Elle's overwhelmed. Max realizes she's never been shopping before and tells her they have to check, try everything. We pan over again. I just love their use of doing two things at once. We have Lucas and Mike and Will trying to find a present for Elle that says he's sorry. At the same time, l is trying to find something that fits her personality. And I just love this moment. Max asks her if there's anything that she likes and else's, how will I know what I like? And Max says, you just try something on until you find something that feels like you not Hopper Not Mike. You.
[01:05:48] Speaker B: Not Hermione. Not me. Not Hermione.
No, not me. Not Hermione. You.
[01:05:59] Speaker A: You.
When I make my move have you seen them make it into, like, a song?
[01:06:09] Speaker B: The Yassified Harry Potter.
[01:06:11] Speaker A: When I make my move I love this moment. You guys, what do you think of this whole, like, montage with Elle and Max?
[01:06:19] Speaker B: This is probably the only part of season three that I remember watching vividly because I just thought it was so cute. Yeah, I didn't realize it happened so early. I thought it was gonna happen later in this season.
It was, as with everything else, but, yeah, it's very cute.
[01:06:37] Speaker C: I'm telling you, everything that you remember happened in this episode, which is crazy, really. I think this scene was one, like, one of my favorite scenes this whole season. Because, like, out of everything that we've witnessed between, like, you know, you know, rats and the mayor situation and everything, this is probably the most innocent scene that you ever seen. It's just two kids acting like kids. Because as of. As of right now, you know, like, Will, he's like, pretty much like his innocence has been traumatized because of what happened in Upside Down. He can't go back to that, like, innocent world of, like, you know, let's play D, you know, dnd and have this, like, sense of, like, normalcy. While with Elle, this is her first ever introduction to, like, what a girl would do or like, what a typical world, you know, day of a girl's life would be like. She's seeing other girls around her age, being at the mall, and she's getting to experience it with somebody around her age because, like, obviously when she hangs out with Mike, like, Mike is a boy. So she's never gonna have, like, that full understanding of what the difference between both of them are. So with Max, she's like, like getting a chance to understand what the gear that she'd been robbed out of.
And I think Max is teaching her, like, you know, worry about what you want for a chance and not, like, how to please your father, figuring your boyfriend, you know, like, dress for yourself, you know, and because, like, it's just sad to see, like, this 1112 year old girl asking this person that she only been talking to for a few hours, who is she as a person? So, like, she doesn't know. Probably know her favorite colors, don't even. Probably know her favorite food or, like, what hobby she would do. She never had. Yeah, well, it goes.
But she never.
Yeah, and she stole it from the store. So, like, she's finally got a chance to do what she wants instead of trying to, you know, please everybody else. So, like, the whole photo shoot was just nice and, like, even the guy probably, like, taking pictures. And I don't know if they can afford those pictures, but letting them get that chance.
[01:08:22] Speaker A: It was glamour shots.
[01:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Max seems to have a lot of money. Or she stole it from Billy. Stole money?
[01:08:29] Speaker A: Yeah, Max stole it from Billy.
She goes into his night and then, like, threatens with chopping off his nuts again, and then takes his money, but
[01:08:40] Speaker C: he's so out of it, he probably don't even remember that he lost money. He's not even. He's not even aware of what's happening to him.
[01:08:44] Speaker B: True.
[01:08:46] Speaker A: He's been gone for forever. Time to raid his room.
Yeah. The colorful wardrobe for Max and Eleven's shopping montage was sourced from real dead stock vintage clothing warehouses. Costume designer Amy Paris intentionally picked bold geometric patterns and neon prints that were popular in the summer of 1985, explicitly selecting Eleven's colorful romper to symbolize her breaking away from Mike's influence and finding her own personal style, which. I'll talk about that in a second. But for 11, it was a big opportunity for Paris and Millie Bobby Brown around to experiment. Since 11 had been accustomed to wearing hand me downs for the last two seasons, the romper that Elle purchases was genuine vintage. Paris had discovered it in a costume house in la untouched, and it happened to fit Millie perfectly. The sneakers Elle buys are genuine vintage Reebok freestyle high tops. Since Paris needed multiples due to stunts, she cheated by painting modern Reeboks green. And it's literally my favorite outfit, I think, of the entire series of anything El wears. It's so cute and so fun and so tween, tween and young teenager, you know?
[01:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:09:53] Speaker A: And I just love this wonderful book ending of 11 style choices over the past three seasons. Like, we've talked about Leia, like, she was dressed in hospital gowns and had a shaved head in season one, because that's what Papa viewed her as, a weapon, who was basically a blank slate. And then Mike and the boys dressed her in that pink wig or the pink dress with the wig as a way to normalize her. But that quickly became apparent, like, she's not normal. She has to have some semblance of balance there. And last season, obviously, was Hopper's overalls that look like they're for boys and then Cali's punk makeup and hair look for her. That taught Elle to embrace her otherness. But here, Elle gets to pick her own style. And figure out who she is. And she chooses this particular style, called the Memphis Design aesthetic, as a way to represent the Meant that. So I went down a rabbit hole. The Memphis Design was created in 1981 as a direct contrast against the minimalist aesthetic of the 70s, emphasizing bright pops of color, strong geometric patterns, and clashing hues. Memphis Design took inspiration from Art Deco, Pop Art, cubism, and more. ArtInContext.org says among the list of products that they designed and manufactured were Memphis style furniture, ceramics, patterns, lights, and fabric fabrics. They considered each piece to be a rebellious statement and in no sense timeless, but rather a political statement as a protest of the functional and neutral modernism period. They stood for everything that modernism was against. Form instead of function, evoking emotion instead of contentment, contrasting nature instead of integrating it. Memphis Design was all about bringing out the fun and crazy side of humans and evoking positive emotion, even though it was a rebellion against something the group considered strong, dark, cold, and boring. And I was like, oh, that's so perfect for something. She would pick to represent herself as she discovers who she is. So it actually ended up morphing into the Y2K aesthetic. I don't know if you can believe that. So, like, our inflatable furniture, Tamagotchis, a lot of it comes from that aesthetic, which is really fun.
[01:11:51] Speaker B: So it's coming back around now.
[01:11:53] Speaker A: I know. Yeah. Gen Z's loving it, except they don't
[01:11:58] Speaker B: even do it right.
[01:12:00] Speaker A: Yeah, well, they're making their own thing, right? They're taking a little bit of what we had, and they're making it into their own thing.
I'm sure that's probably what the people of the 80s thought when they saw ours come around, too. They're like, what is this stupid inflatable thing doing in your room?
Those things were so uncomfortable. I remember trying to sit, and I'm being like, oh, this is not as great as it looks.
[01:12:23] Speaker B: At least it looks cute.
[01:12:24] Speaker A: It does look super cute.
So at Melvilles, we get a sad shot of Radio Shack being closed down. We see Joyce doing some science research. Then she's looking up electromagnetic concepts as she tries to understand why the magnets aren't working anymore. So then she takes off. She's like, that's it. I can't understand this. Who do I know knows all of this stuff? And then she goes and talks to the most competent person she knows, Mr. Clark, who is enjoying his summer vacay painting DND figurines in his garage.
[01:12:53] Speaker B: Love it. He's such an icon.
[01:12:55] Speaker A: He really is.
[01:12:58] Speaker B: I feel like he's helped them so much without even knowing this man. He's no clue.
[01:13:03] Speaker C: And yeah, he doesn't even judge them. He doesn't even judge when he, like, asks extra questions. Like when she said, like, oh, well, what if this is not normal? Like, what if this is just something else? And he's like, oh, well, I can give you a theory. Like, I would have been like, why are you asking me that?
[01:13:15] Speaker B: It's because he's a curious scientist. That's why.
[01:13:18] Speaker A: Just a sweetheart. He doesn't judge.
He's over there. Like, he probably was bullied so much growing up that he's like, you know what? I'm going to let people.
[01:13:26] Speaker B: I just feel like Mr. Clark is the real hero of the show because
[01:13:30] Speaker C: without him, you will be correct and you will be.
[01:13:32] Speaker B: I'm just saying, like, he really just. He's. He gives them so much more information than they would have otherwise.
[01:13:40] Speaker C: He's saving lives in school and saving lives outside, period.
[01:13:45] Speaker B: Absolute king.
[01:13:46] Speaker A: Listening to Weird while he's doing it too.
Love him.
[01:13:50] Speaker B: Love it.
[01:13:50] Speaker A: Let's just hope his name doesn't start with B, guys.
[01:13:54] Speaker B: Oh, no, his first name. What's his first name?
[01:13:57] Speaker C: We don't know.
[01:13:58] Speaker A: We don't know.
Oh, my God, I'm so scared.
[01:14:02] Speaker C: Don't know.
Run, Bentley.
[01:14:04] Speaker A: Run Bentley.
[01:14:07] Speaker B: Benjamin Clark.
[01:14:09] Speaker A: I guess I know I say Bentley when Benjamin's right there.
[01:14:15] Speaker B: Come on.
Benefred Benefer. Oh, my God.
[01:14:20] Speaker A: All right. Mrs. Driscoll's, Jonathan's taking pictures of the frantic rat while Nancy makes calls around about rabid rats. She doesn't find anything. And then she goes on to call the supply company Mrs. Driscoll got the fertilizer from in the basement. Jonathan turns around real quick to change out his battery, replaces film and of course that's when the rat gets really silent and starts convulsing. And then. And Jonathan's watching. And it's taking four freaking ever for this rat to explode here. But of course, Nancy comes down, interrupts him, says she has a lead, and then they take off. And then the rat explodes. And then we watch the rat goo with a tail attached. You guys. Disgusting on its own. Upside down music plays in case we didn't know that this is a product, the upside down guys. I was really worried. I was afraid that this was something that happened in every day.
[01:15:07] Speaker B: I mean, I guess the screeches and screams and growls that didn't give it away.
[01:15:11] Speaker A: The tentacles, the lightning, the ash looking stuff. Billy's hallucinations yeah, Just absolutely no clue, you guys.
So idea in the Upside Down. Thank God we're finally back to Billy again. He's like, what do you want? We're like, what do you want from me? Yeah, what do you want?
So Eva Billy. Well, eviler Billy. Billy tells him he wants him to build what he sees. And then suddenly Billy's back in the right side up and he's waking up from his lifeguard chair. And his arm is like third degree burn, like full on sizzling. He stumbles to the bathrooms. And then we hear the bells again. The chimes. And then he goes in the cold shower. We see black veins growing inside his arms. He has flashbacks. Heather checks up on him to see if he's all right. And he's kind of like hallucinating that Heather is embodied by this thing telling him to take. Take her to him.
And we're like, damn.
[01:16:08] Speaker B: What Spooky.
[01:16:10] Speaker A: And then the scene ends with Heather screaming and it's implied that Billy attacks her.
Yikes. And at the mall, Elle is trying on a bunch of outfits. This is the montage that we were talking about. They're doing the photo shoot. Meanwhile, the boys can't find any whiplash.
[01:16:23] Speaker B: Such whiplash.
[01:16:25] Speaker A: So at Scoops Ahoy, Robin and Dustin have made progress. They've written out the entire Russian Alphabet on their whiteboard.
And Steve is serving Max and else some ice cream. That's when he's like, wait, are you even supposed to be here? And they just giggle and run away.
Outside, they run into the boys with Mike being like, what are you doing here? And then he ignores Max's question about Elle's new style, berates Max for bringing L out while standing right there.
[01:16:50] Speaker B: Literally. Mike, shut the up. Like, I.
[01:16:53] Speaker C: He still has a problem with her. It's actually insane. Like, what did she do? Besides take your girlfriend outside to breathe some fresh air? I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It makes me mad. Like, she can. Like, Max can never have anybody not come at her. So for you to be lying to her, you lie to her for the simplest thing and then you're going to. You're caught and you're still trying to lie and you're.
[01:17:14] Speaker B: He's still lying.
[01:17:16] Speaker C: He's like, yeah, I'm going to go.
[01:17:18] Speaker B: You lie, lying. He's like, yeah, Grandma Nana, we're here for a gift for her.
[01:17:24] Speaker C: Yeah, and I only got $3, so he's going to spend $3 and two gifts. So what would you give Grammy? Granny A penny. Penny A lollipop.
[01:17:33] Speaker B: A button.
[01:17:34] Speaker A: And poor Lucas is trying to be a good friend and back him up, even though he knows this is just
[01:17:38] Speaker B: gonna dig them both into the whole friend.
[01:17:42] Speaker C: Max is like, you talking.
[01:17:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:17:45] Speaker A: He's like, we're about to have breakup number six right here.
She's like, shape up, boy. He's. And then he's very well trained.
[01:17:55] Speaker B: Will in the back of the. Is like, can we please play Dear D?
[01:17:59] Speaker C: Can we play a nibble A slice, please, sir?
[01:18:04] Speaker B: I'm hungry.
[01:18:05] Speaker A: Will needs to go hang out with Mr. Clark and play D and D with him.
[01:18:09] Speaker C: He needs to open up his group. He need to go where Dustin at? Cuz maybe then he'll be heard because
[01:18:15] Speaker B: do you still eat him alive there?
[01:18:17] Speaker C: No, it's. It's over for Will. He's. He's in the past. He's like one year behind.
[01:18:26] Speaker A: No Child Left behind and it's Will.
[01:18:29] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
Where the. Is Jonathan? Why can't you go with Jonathan?
[01:18:35] Speaker A: Yeah, Jonathan, let's go pick up Will.
[01:18:36] Speaker B: Come on. He needs some help here.
[01:18:38] Speaker C: Take him on a tour to see did red meat.
[01:18:44] Speaker A: So Elle doesn't buy anything that Mike is cooking up. And her bus rolls up and you could see her calculate. And then she looks at Mike and says, says, I dump your ass.
And then takes off. Max's jaws on the ground. And she's like, so impressed.
Then the boys just are like, shocked and devastated and watches Max and L high five on the bus and take off. And Will's like, thank God.
Can we play D and D?
[01:19:08] Speaker B: Like you could tell.
[01:19:08] Speaker A: He's like, thank God that phase is over. Let's go back to the.
[01:19:11] Speaker B: He's like, you girls.
[01:19:13] Speaker C: He said, get him out of here. Boy time. The boys are bad back.
Get out. Close the door. Let's ride our bikes home to the so funny. Peace.
[01:19:25] Speaker A: The duffers said that boys at that age, their maturity level, especially their emotional intelligence is so much lower than that of girls.
[01:19:32] Speaker B: I was like, at every age at that age.
[01:19:36] Speaker A: Always says the guys that were yelling at women, apparently straight up.
[01:19:41] Speaker B: Isn't there, like. Isn't there, like, science that says that men do. They don't, like, actually mature until age 45 or something?
[01:19:48] Speaker C: 45.
Good job.
[01:19:52] Speaker A: That would be hilarious.
[01:19:53] Speaker B: Science, Science.
[01:19:55] Speaker C: It has been proven scientifically. Fact.
[01:19:58] Speaker A: Don't find a husband until he's 40, because then his brain will be fully
[01:20:02] Speaker C: developed and by then his pit will be fully bald too. So.
So you get the best of both worlds. You can bully in and.
[01:20:09] Speaker A: And marry him at the same time, I love it.
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.
All right, so a town hall hop is arresting protesters who are like, the mayor raised my property tax and forced me off my land hops like, you can protest all you want. You just have to go through the proper channels. Flo shows up with a new shirt that Hop ordered. And this is nothing like we have ever seen Hopper wear before.
It is literally a whole, like, a Hawaiian shirt. It's like the classic 80s, like, angels. It literally was pretending to be Earl or. Or what's his name?
Herb Saunders, Literally.
And Jim's, like, all giddy, and Pal's like, that's a lot of color for you, chief. And Jim's like, it's cutting edge. I was like, who are you?
[01:20:59] Speaker C: Like, he. He's locking in. He's locking in for his boot camp heat.
[01:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah. He's going.
[01:21:05] Speaker C: He bringing the A game to this.
[01:21:07] Speaker B: It's not a date.
[01:21:09] Speaker A: I've been listening to teenagers make out all summer. It is my time to get some.
[01:21:13] Speaker C: My time to shine. And I support it. Yeah.
[01:21:16] Speaker A: Oh, my God.
[01:21:16] Speaker B: Same.
[01:21:18] Speaker A: So apparently his shirt was inspired by the fashion of Magnum PI which was what he was watching in the first episode, which is hilarious.
And they. The shirt was custom made due to them needing to make multiples for stuff stunts. The fabric itself was genuine vintage that Paris Mass purchased so they didn't run out, which I thought was a lot of the stuff they made.
[01:21:37] Speaker B: What does that mean, genuine vintage, though?
[01:21:40] Speaker A: It means it was what it was. It means, I believe, that it was material actually made in the 80s, not something that was a replica of something made in the 80s. I believe it was something that was made.
[01:21:49] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:21:50] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:21:50] Speaker A: All right. So he arrives at Enzo's, which.
Super nice. There's a string quartet playing. He's dressed up in a suit. He's ordering expensive wine. And I was. I was like, oh, poor Joyce. The moment he said Enzo, she knew this was a date. Like, there's no way. This is not a date. We're not gonna sit there and talk about parenting styles while a string quartet is playing and we're sipping on wine. And he's also wearing that loud shirt.
[01:22:14] Speaker C: Like, yeah.
The whole scenery is romantic, too. Is like. Like you're. It's like an intimate to, like, facing each other. It's not like a little bar thing. Like, you're looking at each other. You're going to obviously talk about. You're not going to talk about. So at your stuff with all these people around you. So you're gonna be like, how's your day? How was work?
So, Hopper, you weren't fooling a fly. You weren't fooling her, sadly.
[01:22:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And you have to, like, lean in really close to each other because the string quartet, you won't be able to hear. So it, like, automatically makes it so much sexier. Like, he's smooth. He knows what he's doing.
[01:22:46] Speaker C: He knows he's a smooth one.
The.
[01:22:48] Speaker A: His shirt is so loud, it'll make Joyce close her eyes because it's so bright. And then he can lean in and kiss her.
[01:22:53] Speaker B: That's.
[01:22:53] Speaker A: That's the overall plan right there.
[01:22:57] Speaker C: History so loud it can light up the dim room in the restaurant.
[01:23:01] Speaker A: Surely he's, like, completely bombarding her, all her senses, just overwhelming her completely. All right, so then we have Joyce, who apparently has completely forgotten about everything, is still talking to Mr. Clark. This is when he talks about the magnetic field, how it's destabilizing the magnetization around it, that there would have to be a big machine that would take billions of volts of electricity and cost tens of millions of dollars. We're like, I wonder what that is. Cut to the deserted mall, except we have Dustin, Robin, and Steve still in the back. They've just finished deciphering the first part of the code. The week is long. The silver coat cat feeds when blue meets yellow in the west. They close up, they talk about the code. Steve's thinking it's nonsense, and Robin and Dustin are like, we're on the same brain wavelength here. They're like, it's definitely a code. And then Steve stops by a quarter horse and then turns it on. And then that's when they all realize that that's the music.
[01:24:04] Speaker B: Don't ever underestimate Steve again.
[01:24:07] Speaker A: He's so much smarter than everybody gives him credit.
[01:24:09] Speaker B: They just brush him off, and it's
[01:24:11] Speaker C: like, just listen to him one time at least once. Like, he has a brain.
Yeah, a little bit. Come on, y'.
[01:24:17] Speaker B: All. Like, he's made it this far in this game of upside down.
[01:24:22] Speaker A: Yeah, he. Lest. Lest we all forget, this man went after a demogorgon, literally, with his.
[01:24:29] Speaker B: With a prickly bat.
[01:24:31] Speaker A: And it wasn't just all brawn. Like, he had to use some brains there, too, with, like, strategically getting it into the hallway. And then, like, yeah, yeah, he's smart.
[01:24:39] Speaker B: Stop underestimating him, guys.
[01:24:41] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:24:42] Speaker B: Come on.
[01:24:43] Speaker A: So it Endzo's joy still has not arrived. Hop is getting increasingly drunker and angrier. He watches all the happy couples around him. He's like, my own daughter can get some and I can't. He then drunkenly slaps a tip down, grabs the full bottle of wine, says he can do whatever he wants. He's the chief of police, and then leaves. But then we see that he knocked into Terminator guy, and we're like, oh, is he watching him? And then at the steelworks building, Billy pulls up. Pulls a tide up an unconscious Heather.
[01:25:09] Speaker B: No.
[01:25:09] Speaker A: From his trunk and brings her to the basement, places her on the ground. She comes to, struggles. Billy, like, leans in, is like, don't be afraid.
[01:25:17] Speaker B: This is literally every woman's, like, worst nightmare.
[01:25:21] Speaker C: Literally.
[01:25:23] Speaker A: To be honest, like, this also seems on brand for Billy.
[01:25:27] Speaker B: Yeah. He would.
[01:25:29] Speaker A: Possessed or not, this still feels like Billy.
[01:25:33] Speaker C: That's why.
That's why opinions on Billy is so iffy.
I fear because I feel like this is, like, something he would do. But I think one thing that I. I'm interested. Intrigued to see is that while, yes, he's possessed by this entity, I hope you guys are forgetting that he's also a demon.
Irl.
Let's hope that this doesn't cloud your. Your sympathy card, guys, because y'. All.
[01:25:59] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:26:00] Speaker A: I do have some yearly reminder.
[01:26:04] Speaker B: I will say, though, I feel like the way Dacre Montgomery played this scene was very interesting. It's almost like at certain points, you could almost see Billy being, like, horrified that he's doing this.
[01:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, trying to break through.
[01:26:19] Speaker B: Like, trying to stop himself from doing it almost. Or, like, kind of not like. Like, being able to see what he's doing, but not being able to stop himself from doing it.
And I thought that was really interesting because it's like, Billy's in there still. Like, you can tell the way he plays it. It's like Billy is. He knows what he's doing, but it's almost like he can't stop.
So I really liked those, like, acting choices. Yeah.
[01:26:44] Speaker C: It's actually intriguing because, like, we saw, like, obviously when the entity possessed Will, like, it was production family was controlling Will more than anything else. So even to the point where, like, he obviously will have choked his mom because of this entity. But with Billy, he's older, so obviously there's more restraint. And in his mind, he can actually fight more than, you know, because since Will was a kid, so you're watching this, like, a different life stage, like, try to combat this, like, powerful entity to where, like, you see him trying to fight back, like, these temptations that this, you know, entity is trying to portray him. Like, when they try to have Karen Karen and then the girl in the shower. He tried to. For so long, he tried to, like, fight it off by, like, constantly even trying to, like, deviate from things. So, like, you can see that Billy's not a full on, like, little. I'm gonna just do what he says. He's still trying to, you know, like, obviously fight back, but I feel like he's still confused because even if he wants to go back to normal, he doesn't even know what they want. That's why that line of he doesn't understand is just insanity. Because what does an entity want? Because you're seeing. You're seeing entity, like, possess Billy, but you're also seeing, like, something related to upside down, having rats just blow up. They're eating dirt. So it's like, it's intriguing because you're just like, how does these all intermingle with each other? And why. And why is Billy the bigger. Well, we know why Billy. But, like, what is the bigger picture that Billy needs to bring this random swimsuit, you know, a person that he works with, to this, like, underground building where even his, like, you know, demise started was in his place.
So it's interesting, but also scary.
[01:28:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just absolutely love that. Like you guys were saying, you can see the nuance on his face. You see him fighting it several times this episode and then ultimately, obviously capitulating. And because it probably takes over, like, he starts to seem to not be able to differentiate between reality and what is delusional.
And they. They do a good shot, a good job of showing us from Billy's perspective of how he's perceiving things and what he's fighting against. And it does help us empathize with him a little bit because obviously nobody deserves this. But, yeah, it's very interesting. It's quite a different path that they take him down than I expected. Like, I remember first time watching this being, like, I didn't think Billy was gonna end up being the victim of the season, you know?
[01:29:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I think. Think. I think that's the most intriguing thing is especially with, like, how at the end of season two, he was, like, obviously, like the little mini antagonist to, like, now him being taken over because of the, like, wrong place. Or maybe he was the right place. He might be. What's the right target, I guess, for this entity, we'll have to figure it out. But to see that even, like, you know, he fought and, I mean, maybe. What was it? Maybe a day or two. So he's been trying to fight for, like, Like, a solid day. And I feel like you see how much it exhausts him to where, like, his. He's sweating profusely. Like, it's like an inner battle in his body. He has bruises. He's, like, fading in and out to where, like, even if he fades out for one minute, that means that the entity can full on control him. So, yeah, it's. It's like, it's kind of scary because if the entity can, like, control that rat that died, and then Billy, this he has, and then maybe even taking over the girl that was just taken.
What. Who else can he take over? Because now this is. Nana was just given that he could take over like the Demogorgons and. And just will. But now it's given that his powers, obviously his power scale increased where he can do several people at once.
So that's. That's very scary.
Get him out of here.
[01:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:30:14] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Naj, for joining us and talking about this with us.
[01:30:17] Speaker C: Happy to be here.
It was fun. Fun. Yeah, it was actually.
[01:30:22] Speaker B: It was fun. It's a. It's a good episode.
[01:30:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it's.
[01:30:26] Speaker B: A lot happened. Yeah.
[01:30:28] Speaker C: Yeah. And it takes, like, for, like, sometimes with these shows, though, it's like, when you're watching it as a regular viewer, it's, like, amazing, but when you're analyzing it for a podcast, it makes you start to, like, be like.
[01:30:38] Speaker A: You break it down a little bit.
[01:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:30:40] Speaker C: So, like, that was not bad. It made me actually grow a little appreciation than what I said in the beginning because, like, the clock and then Billy and then the fact that Bully went through a lot and then even, like, y' all podcast episode helped me with Billy because I didn't know there was a book that talked about him a little bit. So that is why it made me connect just now or like, earlier when I was like, oh, my God, he has a troubled life, and that's why.
[01:31:04] Speaker A: And then season four adds a lot more context, I think, to why some of these people have what they have going on. All right, well, Naj, where can our listeners find you and what are you covering right now? Are you finishing up Charm?
[01:31:18] Speaker C: Yes. At this point, y' all bear with my life. I'm on there.
Is she
[01:31:24] Speaker B: still doing Charm?
[01:31:27] Speaker C: I'm still here, if y' all know that. Meme, please.
I'm still here. I'm almost done. Charmed Teen Wolf is about to be. Is literally done. 2 episodes, 3 episodes left. Revenge is almost done. So I'm wrapping up three shows. So I'm trying to figure out what shows to watch? Yes. All of them have been raised. Baiting me. So I'm just here.
[01:31:45] Speaker A: She needs a good palette cleanser, guys.
[01:31:47] Speaker C: Yeah, Cleanse. And this was the present.
[01:31:49] Speaker B: Suggest some shows for Naj to watch and react to.
[01:31:53] Speaker C: Please, please my spirits.
[01:31:55] Speaker B: You should watch Supernatural.
[01:31:57] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[01:32:02] Speaker B: 100 seasons later.
[01:32:04] Speaker C: Seasons later. 20. No, actually, that. That creator, he lost me because he also writes the boys. Boy, the boys. And the way that you wrote the boys for season five, you actually will never come to my TV screen ever again.
[01:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:32:16] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:32:17] Speaker B: I mean, listen, Supernatural is like a very good show, but it just. It's like a show going on for that long.
[01:32:23] Speaker C: It's a big.
[01:32:24] Speaker B: It just can't be sustained.
Like, the quality can't be sustained that. That long.
[01:32:29] Speaker A: One million. Naj. Are you watching shows that are currently still running or you only watch shows that are finished?
I have a couple suggestions.
[01:32:38] Speaker C: I can. I don't. I don't mind. I just think. Oh, yeah, I would need. I would like to hear that.
[01:32:43] Speaker A: I don't have any, like, because Andrew and I, we. We got sick for, like a month and so we binged a lot of shows. I highly recommend Widow's Bay. I don't know if you've seen.
[01:32:52] Speaker B: I really want to watch that.
[01:32:54] Speaker A: Yes. It is a horror comedy.
[01:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And me and my co worker are actually planning on doing like, a. A night a week where we watch, watched.
Go to somebody's house and watch Widow's Bay.
[01:33:05] Speaker A: Do it. And then you'll tell me all about it. Widow's Bay. And then from.
[01:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that one.
[01:33:11] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:33:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:33:13] Speaker A: Severance is a really good one. Severance.
[01:33:17] Speaker B: Have you seen Breaking Bad?
[01:33:19] Speaker A: I haven't, no.
Would that be a good one for her to cover?
[01:33:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[01:33:24] Speaker B: I haven't seen it, but I know that it's very popular and it's very good.
[01:33:28] Speaker A: Good.
[01:33:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:33:29] Speaker A: And then Andrew and I just watched. It's a new show that just came out this year. There's a lot of really good ones, but it's been renewed for a second season. Stuff. It's called Pluribus. And the premise is. I think I told Leia about it. It's about this girl who.
There's some sort of, like, alien virus that comes and it ends up, like, taking over the human population and killing, like, a third of the world. But the people who survive are all taken over by this alien, except for her and, like, a handful of people from all around the world. And. And the. The alien that takes over is trying It. It's trying to help it and it believes that it can't actually kill anything and that it's only making people let their lives better by assimilating them into this hive mind. And so she's like one of the only people that is actively trying to fight against the aliens and their assimilation. And it's. I. I cannot recommend it enough. It is so interesting in how they show like what would happen if that actually like went around like, like some of the people. People like the aliens because the aliens will do whatever they say. So there's like one guy who like flies around in Air Force One and has like a whole harem of women to choose from. And then, you know, it's like realistic to what would happen. And then I won't give away anymore. But it honestly is really interesting and actually kind of funny too at the same time.
[01:34:46] Speaker C: So I'm gonna dad that because the only recent show that I've watched as like ongoing. I actually watched the Stranger Things, Duffel Brothers adult version of Stranger Things that got canceled.
[01:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I know.
[01:34:57] Speaker C: My dad was watching that. So I watched it with him and it was something,
[01:35:04] Speaker B: something else.
[01:35:05] Speaker A: I heard it wasn't good.
[01:35:07] Speaker C: It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't good. The printer.
Yeah, I don't want to spoil it for anybody else want to watch it, so I'm gonna watch it. Yeah, it's like, it's like these old folks home where they like stay and you know, obviously the main character or the dad, he stays there and apparently there's like a tube in the each of the old folks home where there's like alien creature comes in and drinks some of their brain matter to feed. To feed their mom, which is an alien that ends up becoming almost human like because it eats on humans brain. And so the founders of the old folks home is this couple that have been alive and hasn't aged for. For decades because they feed on the mothers like blood or whatever. So they basically have her hooked up in like this room and like, and they. And it like they drink her serum or whatever to. So they can stay young forever. And it has like a couple of them that just there. So the main premise is they're trying to hire a scientist that can keep the mother alive so she can keep keeping them as young as at forever. That's literally the principle of it. So like, okay, it's like. And then like I think one of the ones people find like a fruit that also contains it. She's like an alien. But it was so hot, so. And it was crazy.
It was. I was watching it, but I was like, what the is going on?
And they even had the actress from Hunger Games, the actress who plays Johanna, she was on there. And I was like, girl, what are you doing over here?
[01:36:35] Speaker A: Well, you'll have to let us know what you choose, because I'm very excited. I love your reactions. And I.
I think I. I think you're ready to try something different. Try something new.
[01:36:44] Speaker C: Something. Something new. Something for the rage. Something. Something.
[01:36:47] Speaker A: Maybe something a little shorter.
[01:36:49] Speaker C: Yes. Something not 20 episodes of pain.
[01:36:53] Speaker A: Yes.
It's. It's a good. It's a good life on that. I'm not.
Sadly, there's some really good stuff coming out right now, too, so you're gonna have a lot of fun kind of finding stuff and jumping around. All right, well, thanks, everyone, for listening.
Let us know your thoughts. The episode, did you guys feel like there was just too much going on? Did you like the pacing? What did you guys think about Max and L's relationship? L and Mike, Max and Lucas, Joyce and Hopper, all of the stuff happening with Billy? This is a really interesting Billy episode.
If you guys have seen the rest of the show, you'll have to let us know what you were thinking when Billy was possessed and all the Easter eggs and everything that's happening, happening in season four. Thanks for listening, you guys, and we will talk to you next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe, and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email
[email protected].
[01:38:00] Speaker C: Sa.
