Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to Investigating, a movie and television rewatch podcast, where we're currently analyzing each episode of Stranger Things with no spoilers. We are your hosts, Leah and Sarah,
[00:00:16] Speaker B: and if you love Stranger Things, this is the podcast for you.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome back to Investigating Stranger Things. Today we are doing the much anticipated season two, Chapter seven, the Lost Sister, originally known as the Lost Brother. So, you know, they were really going for throwing us off there. Written by Justin Doble, this is actually the fourth and final episode of the series that he wrote. He moved on to other things.
Directed by Rebecca Thomas. This is the only episode of the show that she directed. They wanted someone new, and I love that it's directed by a woman. This is our first female director. And then, of course, aired October 27, 2017. And before I forget, we have Tony from All Bronze no Brains here with us, who's trying very hard not to talk until we introduce him. I could tell. So welcome, Tony.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. Again,
[00:01:29] Speaker A: so glad.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Looks like Steve Harrington today, too. He came.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking of a different character, but, yeah. Spoilers.
Yeah.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Shh.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Spoilers.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:01:43] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: No one can see him.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: It doesn't matter.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: No one can see what he looks like. But I look so good.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: He looks very, very good.
[00:01:52] Speaker C: It's Joyce. Yeah,
[00:01:56] Speaker A: it's actually Jonathan.
[00:01:58] Speaker C: Oh, I wouldn't mind that.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: I love Jonathan by the Sea.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Someone has to.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: His mom doesn't, so.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: No. But, Tony, thank you so much for joining us. He has been at death's door for the past couple of days. No, not really. He's been sick for the past couple of days, so we weren't sure if this was gonna happen. We had to kind of postpone it a day. But I'm really glad that you are better and that you're here. But if his voice is kind of weak and he sounds frail and stuff, it's just give him grace, getting over being sick.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: But, yeah, he was just in the Upside down and he just came back.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: So that's why a lot of spore air that he's been breathing.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: He swallowed a lot of tentacles and stuff.
[00:02:44] Speaker C: I mean, I sure have, but I don't know if that was really. If that's really his.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Here we go back.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: We're back on the loop.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: It wasn't me this time.
[00:02:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: All right, before we get into anything else, so what was your guys's opinion of this episode? Because this is quite the controversial episode. It is very much maligned online and in most fandom spaces and I'm curious what your guys thoughts are after having just watched it and if that's changed at all from a previous watch or in Leia's case, if she remembers her previous watch.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: It's no provider. I feel like people are being a little dramatic about this episode.
Yeah, I don't know. It's okay. I think, obviously, like, the placement is kind of weird because we just left off on a huge cliffhanger in the last episode, but we didn't. We didn't get to see Elle in the last episode, so it was nice to spend the entire episode with her here.
I think the one thing about this episode that I. I guess I'll criticize is that it just. We spent a lot of time with characters that we didn't really care about. I feel like, like that whole group, like, I don't care about them.
I thought these scenes with Kali and Eleven or Jane were, like, really great, but there was also like. Like, I just found myself kind of drifting off at certain points, blacking out a little bit.
But yeah, I mean, it's not like, terrible.
People made it sound like, from what I remember, like, I never hated it, but the way people talk about it, it's almost like it's a the Girl in Question type of episode. And I'm like, that's not even. Like, I wouldn't say it's that because it still is.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: First of all, I like the girl in question.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Second, yeah, I mean, I like the Girl in question. It's a fun episode, but, like, people hate it because it's. It sticks out like a sore thumb at the end of the series, whatever. But I just don't. I don't get the same vibes from this episode whatsoever. So it was okay. It wasn't my favorite, but I didn't hate it.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: Funnily enough, the Girl in Question was the episode that I first met you guys on, when I guessed it on Investigated Angel.
But I requested this episode when Sarah was talking about it because I actually really enjoyed this episode. Like, there's. I remember when I first watched it, it was. It must have been like, 20. When did it come out, Sarah? 2019.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: 2017.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: 2017. Yeah. So it was. I was in London. I remember watching it. My friend Jess had visited for the weekend. And I just. I like anything that's a little bit narratively different or any shows that do something a little different. I think it's so obvious from the outset, it's a different director.
I really enjoyed the choices that she was making, and I was Pulled enough into Elle's story after her being missing for so much of the season that it was just nice to be with her.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: And.
[00:05:37] Speaker C: And I'm also a sucker for, like. I can connect to people very quickly, whether I dislike them or don't. Oh, that's the same thing. Just like them or don't like them, dislike them or like them. Under. I also think like the.
The guest star, you know, of the guy they go after in this episode. I like him. In other shows, he always plays this kind of creepy, bad character. So I was. I was into it with him and I loved seeing the new power. So I was just totally like, I hate being one of those people. Every time I come on to guest, I'm like, I actually really like this one. Yeah,
[00:06:10] Speaker A: it's so interesting because I don't.
I have mixed feelings about this episode, so I really appreciate what it's trying to do. I appreciate thematically what it does. I think it actually deals with a lot of the criticisms that Leia and I had for the finale of season one with El. It's just nice to see some development for her. I think that that is the strength of the episode. I think that the actress who play Kali, Linnea something or other, I have it written down here somewhere. But I think she does a great job of making you really care for Kali in the short amount of time that you have with her and really believing the bond that she has with 11. I think the weakness of the episode is that they were stretched a bit thin and they also spent a lot of time on the characters without making them very fleshed out. They're very one dimensional. But I get that the narrative and thematic purpose of them is just to show that you can have friends who are outsiders just like you.
And so they just wanted to show a diverse cast. And that is kind of in essence good enough to show that this is an eclectic group of characters that would be willing to embrace 11. I think it's just like Leia was saying, it was hard to really care at times because we're given like one fact about each character and then that becomes their personality. And there's not really much to go off of. But the. The episode wasn't really about that. The episode was about 11 and her learning to love herself and accept herself. And Cali is a stepping stone in that process. So I had a newfound love for the episode because I've really been enjoying Eleven's arc in this re watch.
I think I have not appreciated her enough in past watches because I Think I've been more drawn to other characters and other. Maybe more the mystery of the show than really Eleven's story.
So this time around, I'm trying to focus on her a little bit more and I'm finding that I'm picking up some nuggets that I didn't notice in the past, and I discovered a few for this episode, which I'm really excited to talk about. And yeah, and I'm glad you're here too, Tony, because I think it'll be good to have someone on who, like, has an appreciation for the show. My goal, and I've said this before, Michael, these episodes are always my favorites to talk about because they're the ones that everybody comes in with such a low bar. So I feel like it's always really easy to kind of exceed expectations and be able to bring something fresh and new about it because it's. Everyone is already like, oh, I hate it. So I bummer for all of you who came in here being like, we want to hear them bash the episode the entire time. I'm sure there'll be some of that. But as always, like, the goal is to try to give everybody, like, a different perspective and, you know, also be true to the episode. But yeah. So, okay, I have a lot of background stuff.
They scroll. You can see my glasses. The words just go by.
No, there's an entire. So there's not always an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to a single Stranger Things episode. This has an entire page and there's a lot. So most of the background stuff is from there. If you guys want to know more, you can go read that. It's actually incredibly informative. I learned a few things that I did not know, so I'm just gonna. I front loaded this episode so we could just get that done with. But as always, I have other things to say too, so bear with me. The episode was written mainly out of the Duffers admiration for Millie Bobby Brown's acting in the first season, which they felt could lend itself to a separate storyline about Eleven. They also wish to further explore Eleven's childhood in a way that would ultimately benefit her narrative in the season. Thank God they did, because it needed. It needed that. They wanted to build the theme of 11 Mastering Her Power with a different tone than the rest of the series. At that point, the idea of it being the second half, the season finale instead of a standalone episode was brainstormed but ultimately decided against. Which is crazy because I can't imagine them trying to shoehorn this into the finale like that. That would have been way too much. Upon release, the episode received generally mixed reviews from both critics and fans, with most agreeing that it was the worst episode of the series up to that point. Like, we're talking a lot. Like, it was rated like a 5.6, right? I think. No, it was a 6.0 on IMDb.
But now the bridge in season five is 5.6.
It has been dethroned as the lowest rated episode of the show. And the hard part is it's hard to take that seriously because I know fans intentionally did that. I remember a lot of petitions and things going around on TikTok of people being like, everybody go down, vote the bridge so that we can get it lower rated than this episode in honor. Honestly, neither of the episodes deserved that. So.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, people are so annoying.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it is annoying. That's why it's hard sometimes to look at ratings for. Yeah. Shows that fans contribute to. Like, even.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: It's like the Karens that like, go to a store and they don't like that they couldn't return their item, so they just go and like leave a million one star reviews saying, yeah, oh, like, this cashier killed my grandmother.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: She helped me at gunpoint.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: This cashier spit on me and then set me on fire with her.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: She gave me a how dare she saliva.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: It's also like, people who have a life don't actually leave IMDb reviews.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:23] Speaker C: So it's like. So it really is just all the people.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: I've actually only ever left one review and it was at a restaurant and it was because the server was so good, I wanted to go online and leave her a review.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: Oh, I did it once for a DPD delivery driver who was so hot and I thought he was flirting with me and I really wanted to try and track him down.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: You're like, this is Tony. Address is the following.
[00:11:49] Speaker A: You. You know my address. Great service.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: You just.
[00:11:52] Speaker A: You just give your order. I was, you know the bean and cheese taco burrito with the extra guacamole on the side. You remember me? You know who I am.
Sorry that's such an American thing. I'm sure that's not an Irish thing.
[00:12:04] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I'm like, what?
[00:12:08] Speaker A: Yummy. Like, we don't eat that garbage.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Speaking.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Which, have you guys seen all of the soccer people that are in the US Right now for the World cup and they're like, so excited to go eat Taco Bell and like, Cracker Barrel and Bucky's and they're eating at all of the, like, American places? And all the American people are like, you guys are gonna be 15 pounds heavier by the time you leave. Because it's all that red Dy.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Red 40.
[00:12:36] Speaker C: That's gonna be me when I come for Thanksgiving. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna leave like a hot air balloon version. You know, like in Harry Potter, whenever his aunt turns into, like, the balloon.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: They're gonna make you leave your baggage because you can't bring that and yourself back in. It exceeds the weight limit.
[00:12:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll just exceed the weight limit myself.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
Okay, where am I?
Oh, yeah. So the main reason of the criticism was for its disruption of the narrative that the season had been building up. And to be honest, I think that is the biggest weakness of the episode. I think if they. A lot of people actually on Reddit were suggesting. I think this was actually brilliant was have this episode to have been released in between the seasons. So, like, after season two aired, you don't know where else. Ben, you don't know why she's dressed like this. You just know she has left Hoppers. And then in between seasons two and three, you release this episode as kind of a little bit of, hey, this is where Elle was at. And it kind of fills the gaps. I think audiences would have eaten it up and loved it. I think it would have been received very differently or at least placed in a different part of the season. But I think because it comes between two really action packed episodes, a lot of people struggle with it. Which guys, come on.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: I also just wonder if it was because it was right at the start, you know, of the streaming era, where people were so used to having that linear story or storytelling delivered in one lump to them, so they didn't like that disruption. Whereas, like, I'm. I've been used to watching things, you know, for years, where you would get random in between episodes. Like, I mean, Buffy did a lot of stuff like that, you know, angel turns evil. And then we've got two episodes where there's like, you know, bad Eggs and Ted where angels, like, doesn't really show up at all. And you want to know what's going on, but it's like, yeah. So to me, like, it didn't. It didn't really bother not to say anything bad against the people who you. He found it annoying, but I'm just
[00:14:26] Speaker A: like, what's wrong with you? Stop complaining.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: She's obviously gonna. She's obviously gonna be back in the next step. Like 40 minutes.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: The thing is, I will only ask you to wait for 40 minutes. Calm down.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: And you can immediately go to the next episode, too. That's the thing. You don't have to wait a whole seat or.
But the thing is, it's not like
[00:14:44] Speaker B: this episode was just completely filler.
Yeah. Like, it wasn't just a random episode where nothing of subs since happened. Right.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: It's honestly one of the most important episodes of the season.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's why I'm kind of like. It's not like a provider where literally nothing happens and it's just stupid as hell. It's not like the girl in question where it's like, you know, we're in the middle of this really crazy storyline, and then we do something completely different that has nothing to do with it. It's like, this has to do with Ellen. Like, I don't know. It's just. There's substance to this episode. It's not just, yeah, hey, guys, have a, you know, phases.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: You're random episode.
There's some person that's like, they're gonna
[00:15:34] Speaker B: be like, what are those? These are all like, filler episodes in Buffy. Right? Like, they're all.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: You guys. Go back and listen to our investigating Angel Provider episode. If you want to hear Leia absolutely raging. She doesn't shut up about that episode for the rest of the series.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Episode so much and beyond.
[00:15:50] Speaker C: Apparently that's like, a man's least favorite
[00:15:53] Speaker B: episode in, like, all of tv, I think, probably. Yeah.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: You're never watching that ever again, are you?
[00:16:00] Speaker B: No. Oh, no, no. God, you couldn't pay me.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Which is hilarious because that episode is all about being paid. So.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: Yeah, you could have paid Angel. He would have watched it.
All right. So the Duffers weren't actually much happier with how the episode turned out than the fans. There was a Variety article, Tony.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: I'm like, whatever. They'll. They're the James Marshalls of the Stranger Things universe.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: True.
The way they come out with a new interview every single week and retcon something else.
Brother like.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Likes to hear themselves talk.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
So Matt Duffer reminisce. Reminisced to Variety. I don't know. I didn't write down when they had this interview, but it was sometime after season two. We were shooting season two really, really fast because we were trying to hit this Halloween deadline, and the first script we wrote just flat out didn't work. And then we had one week left to rewrite. I just don't think we ever nailed it. Obviously, I always felt bad that we didn't figure that out for Linnea. Rather than continue from the narrative shown throughout the season or set up a possible continuation of stories related to Callie and the gang, the lost sister takes up its time working as a test of character for 11. This helps give the audience a look into how far she's willing to go to get revenge on those who wronged her through this unique character. Storytel the episode adheres to the concept of operational aesthetics, in which a series will use an episode to dissect itself and the way its concept can be stretched. Authors Lynn Kozak and Martin Zeller Jacques described this as allowing the viewer to speculate on an episode's plot importance rather than showing it right away. The relationship between an11 and Cali draws parallels to that of Star wars characters Luke Skywalker and Yoda, respectively. According to Jeffrey Andrew Weinstock, as the bond between a trainee and mentor, Luke is taught by Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back how to move objects without touching them through the Force, similar to kali instructing 11 to think of bad memories from her past to feel her power. This also creates a contrast between the two relationships, since Lucas specifically told that fear, anger, and hate lead to pain and suffering, while 11 is instructed to focus exclusively on that rage. Acknowledging the episode's similarities to aspects of Star wars, the Duffers noted that the Empire Strikes Back was frequently used as inspiration during production of the episode. They stated that Eleven's interactions with Kali were purposefully reminiscent of her pulling to the dark side, a common theme of Star wars, and learning to make decisions for herself through this. So I think it's actually very poetic that. I mean, obviously I know you requested this episode, but it did also actually end up being the episode that you landed on too, when I was assigning them. But you were on for the monster last season, and I feel like we were kind of talking about how they were trying to go dark with 11 in that episode, but the worst she did was steal Eggos because she was hungry. And then this one, I felt like, okay, they're actually giving some meat to this. They're actually having 11 make some choices about her morals, which I think was much needed, to be honest.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. Because I think in season one, obviously we see that Eleven's powers are really tied to like fear and love and survival. And we've never really seen her. You over overtly use anger to kind of strengthen her abilities. So I. I actually really enjoyed. I think that being seduced, you know, by the anger. And I really enjoy when you see for a character that like actually going to the Dark side makes them stronger. That's what I enjoy. I enjoy that push and pull of like a character having to then choose.
You know, when 11 chooses, obviously at the end to go back, it almost like they have to choose the deficit in order to. Because that's the right thing to do. And I. I really enjoy that about this episode.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that when we get to Kali's specific words. But Ross Duffer says it was something that early on, moving into season two, we were excited about exploring. Everybody kept asking, there were other numbers. Because Eleven's journey in season two was really disconnected until the very end from the rest of the main story. We wanted her to go on this emotional journey where she's learning more about her past, about where she belongs. We were excited about not repeating ourselves. We were excited about playing with format in the second act. We thought, let's pause for a bit and take her on this different journey before we bring her back into the action. Millie Bobby Brown says the story let Eleven mature in ways that were vital to the character's continued development. It was important to 11 to kind of go through that moment at the time because 11 doesn't know who she is as a person. I know that my little sister influences me. So in real life, Eleven's older sister really influenced her. I think she didn't want to be like that, though. She didn't want to be punk and different.
And then in October 2016, Berthelson, who plays Kali, was given an audition for the series two days after watching Stranger Things for the first time with her boyfriend. To prepare for the role, she researched which movies were used as inspiration for the first season and based much of her performance off of the Star wars franchise. Her audition was for a character not yet brainstormed who was to be finalized when casting concluded early on. The episode was titled the lost brother and 11 sibling was meant to be a 30 year old male who grew up homeless, with the part being cast with a gender neutral actor in mind. During this period, C's character was named Roman and was described as having a supernatural connection to the events of Hawkins Lab. Obviously, that's where the Lost brother comes into play and stuff. But then they saw Cali. They loved or not Cali, they saw Linnea and then loved her and then decided to make the part for a girl.
So.
And then obviously the episode's tone is very reminiscent of urban films from the 1970s and 80s. We'll talk about that more in a little bit. Kind of like The Terminator. It's very distinct from the series. The Duffers were very excited about playing with themes that they haven't before. It was locked in to be the seventh episode of the season, and that was because Eleven was not present for the previous episode. And then they also thought about discarding the episode completely because they. They just didn't really know where it fit in the series or in the season. But then they looked at Eleven's ending for this season and realized that it didn't feel earned. And we're like, okay, so we need this episode. Which I completely agree with.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Following the premiere of the Lost Sister, many fans assumed that the episode was meant to be a backdoor pilot for a spin off series, but that was never actually the case. It was just obviously supposed to be just for 11 and everything. Did you guys ever see the SNL sketch that was based off of this episode? They brought Natalie Portman in, which is like a little. Little meta thing. The fact that it was all based on Star wars. And then they have her in here.
Yeah. There's a sketch starring Natalie Portman. It features Eleven as she finds others with supernatural powers. But the majority are underwhelming, such as a man whose nose bleeds every time he makes chili and a woman who is 50 saying, I'm 50, I'm just 50 years old. And then bleeding every time.
And then after the episodes release, the Duffer stated that they wanted to bring Cali back in the future, but were unsure if this would be possible. They called it a loose and they wanted to explore more in subsequent episodes and felt leaving it open ended allowed for more storytelling potential.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: I know. I hope they do bring her back sometime.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. I. I just. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Okay. All right. And then as we've started a new tradition, Tony, which you haven't been here for this. I go on to Reddit and I look at the Reddit thread that was happening as this. These episodes came out. And so you can see people posting. They had posted in real time. So you get to kind of see what people thought of the episod without having seen anything else. And of course, they. They all understandably don't like it, but there were a couple of funny, funny comments.
L. Playing the DLC before finishing the main quest. Wtf?
Which. Leia, that's gamer speech for doing all the side quest missions before you go on and do the. The main thing. So Elle's doing side quests and someone commented to that and said she realized she needs more levels before she can handle the dlc, so she goes back to the low level area to farm a bit.
11 returned home and saving the day, looking like a rock star all of a sudden. And all the theories around where she's been and what happened would have been really cool.
That was a momentum killer.
And then the last one, which I thought was hilarious. This is my favorite X Men movie.
[00:24:16] Speaker C: I just can't imagine being that bothered. Like, yeah, get a life and skip the episode Jesus Christ Superstar.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: I guess when it's like, when something. Somebody's collectively watching something with, like, everyone else, you know, there's discourse. Right.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: Like, but I feel like no one else has complained about the other episodes in this season that she feels very noticeably absent from. And I think the reason that. That's why I enjoyed this episode more because I think, like, because she's been so hidden away and, like, cut off from everyone. It has been like this emotional pressure cook tricker. And then this episode is like the release. And so I think that's why I love it.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker C: I also think if they had have just. Just say this episode wasn't there and she came back and she's way stronger. People be like, they didn't explain it. How can she do that? This doesn't mean there was no. There's no winning at this point.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: No, I just. I think that it's okay to not like the episode. I'm not trying to insult anyone who does, but I think that, like, having looked at it a little bit closer, I. I do think aspects of it are boring. So I'm not going to disagree with that, but I do think it's relevant. I think at the very least, it's. It's pivotal for L.
It doesn't have to be your favorite episode, but anyway. All right, let's talk about it. All right. So we get thrown right back into eleven's mind with Terry, and then she comes back to reality, visibly shaken. Becky's trying to comfort her. Later, we see Ellen, Becky debriefing with Elle, saying that Terry kept showing her the girl in the rainbow Room. Becky I asks what the girl looks like, and El says different and that she thinks this is why mama wanted to talk, to show her the girl, and that she thinks she wants her to find her. Becky then goes through a file cabinet and says that Terry kept a bunch of files of missing kids when she was looking for Elle and specifically was looking for kids that were like, L. She finds a particular folder filled with newspaper articles of Missing kids. And then Elle finds one of a missing girl from London that looks just like eight. And then L confirms that it's her. I'm not going to go through it now, but. But in our season one recap, we talk about the Terry Ives book. And in the Terry Ives book, she actually knew Kali because Kali is supposed to be in her early 20s, so she's several years older than Elle.
And so Terry and Kali actually develop a relationship, and Kali actually is the one that betrays Terry to Brenner when Terry's trying to leave. But Kali, mind you, is like 8 or 9 years old and doesn't. Isn't aware of how she's being manipulated by Brenner, so. Which is an interesting commentary on how Brenner is almost using Cali's own powers against her, how Cali can manipulate people to see what they want, and how Brenner did that same thing to her. But, yeah, if you guys want to go back and we did a whole review on that, or like, I should say, a synopsis on the book and stuff, but we found out that Terry and Cali knew each other and that Cali's, like, several years older and she's from London and stuff. So Elle confirms that it's a. And then she goes back into the mindscape to try to find Eight, but just isn't able to find her. That night, we see Elle laying on a pullout bed in her room, looking at the newspaper clipping and again trying to concentrate and find 8. And this time, it works. She ends up approaching a girl in the mindscape who's facing away from her towards a burn barrel. And then Elle gets pulled out just before she can fully see the girl. But we know that it's the same girl from the first episode in Chicago.
The music that's playing right here is she wants me to find her. And it's the same music that was playing when Hopper and 11 find each other in the woods at the beginning of this season. So nice little callback there.
So, excitedly, Elle runs into the kitchen calling for Becky, saying she found her, but then overhears Becky trying to get a hold of Jim, presumably trying to get more answers on Elle. And Elle's just absolutely betrayed. She hears Becky talking about another girl who's missing. And we find out that she's talking to Flo from the station. And then Becky hears the front door open, hangs up, and then finds her purse emptied of her money. And then Jane is gone. And then we hear the phone ringing again. We pan over To Terry still sit in her rocking chair muttering those same words. And then we see the TV has the big Channel 8 on it. I loved that transition. That was such. Not that we didn't know, but like, it just was really cool.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: It was brilliant. I forgot that it was at this point in the entire series that we knew so much about Jane and her mom and that kind of reveal of what was done to her. Like, it is so early, I think, like knowing that they had a multi season plan, I forgot that it was like so well kind of put out there. I actually really, when I was watching it again, I was like, oh, this is.
This is like right in there, like
[00:28:49] Speaker B: from the start now.
Yeah, Me, every episode I'm like, this is happening now.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Leia's like, what else are they gonna put in the rest of the show? They've already covered everything.
[00:29:01] Speaker C: Yeah, literally.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: I will say this, they were pretty efficient with their time with this episode for how much they had to cram into the story. I liked that they didn't spend a lot of time with her at Becky's but place. They just kind of like showed the relevant stuff and then moved on so that we could get to the meat of the episode.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: I really, really enjoyed like the. The start part as well, where Jane is remembering, you know, the. The clips of all the words that she's heard and it just. The way it was directed. I really enjoyed it. It's because it felt different from Stranger Things, like normally. And I think I text you earlier to say it reminded me of like the. The montage to the. The start of the. The gift. Like the 100th episode of Buffy where there was like the little snippets. So I really enjoyed like catching up on a story like. Like in that way. I thought it was really smart.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: So then we see Elle is riding in a bus again, trying to focus on where 8 might be and is able to get a few more flashes as we hear Runaways by Bon Jovi, which is hilarious because she's married to his son now. And this is like the most 11 song ever.
There were apparently many songs considered for this scene, but Runaway fit it better than any others, so it was chosen. However, the sequence that accompanies the song did not have enough footing footage, requiring the editors to stretch out the scenes as much as possible to get it to work with the song. And this caused Matt Duffer to somewhat dislike the song because he felt like the. The next sequence of events that they show of Chicago ran on for too long and kind of ruined the flow, which I thought it was kind of cool. I think it kind of established like the setting, which I think is equally as vital to this episode as the music. But also the lyrics for this song are like kind of on the nose. All you've asked When's your daddy going to talk to you? But you were living in another world Trying to get a message through no one heard a single word you said they should have seen in your eyes what was going around your head oh, she's a little runaway Daddy's girl learned fast all those things she couldn't say oh, she's a runaway, you know she likes the lights at night on the neon Broadway sign She don't really mind it's only love she hoped to find and I'm like, oh, yep, Daddy issues.
In case we all didn't know.
Okay, so real brief. I feel like I have to give a synopsis each episode. But like back in Trick or Treat Freak, we talked about the suburban utopia, the suburban simulacrum. This idea that a white picket fence for kids is the American dream that was sold to people after the Great Depression, The World War I and 2 is a way to kind of promote mass consumption and prevent another period of economic crisis and political division. I keep hammering this all home because this is going to become incredibly relevant next season especially we're going to expound even more on this.
But we're watch watching the kind of, even the disillusionment of this in our generation as our generation is barely able to afford housing, vacation time, gas, etc, etc, and it's a lot of it is built off of this idea of the American dream is X and it's all based on consumerism, that it benefits from the work of the middle class. Which I would argue is why we're seeing a rise in AI right now pushed by the elites because they're running out of workers and so they're wanting, you know, anyway, that's a whole other thing.
But from the podcast explaining history in the episode American Suburbia and the Birth of the Consumers Republic, they say this created the idea of the American dream and the suburban utopia. This created the illusion of a classless society, or rather a mass middle class. Fortune magazine exalted that suburbia was making the American market socially and economically more uniform. It was a meritocratic dream, but one strictly bound by race. As I noted in the podcast, this utopia was explicitly for white people. Black Americans were systematically excluded from suburban wealth creation through redlining and discriminatory covenants.
So where do people of Color and those not wealthy or privileged enough to be able to afford the suburbs go to live typically the urban areas of a city. And we talked about how the urban areas are a threat to the suburban simulacrum on many levels, but mainly because they are a haven for those that are outsiders, outgoing casts othered, and those that don't always follow the rules or fit in with the suburban ideal. That's why it's so important that we're in Chicago. Why Cali's gang are misfits. This episode had to take place outside of Hawkins.
And I also think it works thematically really well with the season where we're watching a bit more of a racial dynamic between Billy and Lucas.
Yeah. So I just thought. But I thought it was brilliant that we have a completely different setting. I think it was needed.
[00:33:32] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. I think there's like, especially at this time, that kind of long standing media trope where like urban environments, they're really like non white working class spaces and how that equals like crime and moral decay. Yeah, the thing that you.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: It's the bad area.
[00:33:50] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. And it's always like the towns that. That need protecting are. Are like the suburbs or like small towns and. And it's. They're like the only places that deserve protection in many ways. You know, almost you see that at the end as well when El decides to go back to save, you know, to. To save Hawkins.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Essentially. True. Yeah.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: So I think it's. It's really interesting. I think this setting on one hand, I really love it because it's so different from what we've seen. But it also maybe does reinforce some kind of negative stereotypes, especially with racial implications of like the other bothered and the punks being the criminals. So I just thought that was an interesting kind of take, but probably very relevant for the time.
Yeah.
[00:34:32] Speaker A: I think you could also read it too, as possibly because we've been talking about.
There's this essay I've been reading that's been talking about how intentionally or otherwise the duffers could be making a commentary on the suburban utopia. I say in quotations as actually being polluted with the Upside Down. This idea that that suburbia is not actually as safe as we think it is. And that every time that Will gets pulled into the Upside down he's being bullied or he's afraid or something's happening with people being unkind to him and othering him. And so they're talking about how the people that are aware of the Upside down are the people that are othered. And so there's this idea that for everybody who's white and more normal, they're sitting there going, life is fine. Like, look at Karen and Ted, have no clue about all the stuff that's happening. But the people like Joy Choice and like Hopper, the people that are not the tip. Your typical townsfolk, they're the ones. Or even like Lucas and Will and you know, the queer coded people, they're the ones that are aware of Hawkins. And it's this idea that the seediness has always been there, but it's not because someone is black, it's not because someone is queer. It's because there's a marginalization happening and that's more insidious and evil than your skin color. You know what I mean? Like, it's just.
[00:35:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: And so literally it could be like Elle as a queer coded person going back, she's going to be used to fester out the evil that is in Hawkins just by being herself. So I think you could also read it that way too. Maybe it's something empowering.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:12] Speaker A: So we get to see. Oh, go ahead. You going to say something?
[00:36:15] Speaker C: No, I was going to say I'll wait until the end to okay.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: You're like, no, I have. I have further points.
I'll raise you your points. I'll give you more points.
We get to see Little Sheltered Ellen. Awe over the skyscrapers, the amounts of people. She ends up making her way to where some homeless people are camped out, finds the warehouses. From one of her flashes, she enters and sees a group of four people that we recognize from the robbery in episode one, sitting around a burn barrel. Everything about this group screams were outcasts. We're edgy. We're different. One guy has an orange mohawk. One girl has a giant bow and her hair and smeared makeup. Their layer is covered in artsy graffiti. They notice her and make fun of her overalls, clearly marking her as someone from a small town and not from Chicago. Alice says that she's looking for a sister, that she saw her here. She moves to pull the newspaper out of her pockets, but they're suspicious. And then once they see the picture, they're like, hang on, is that Cali? How do you know where to find us? And then paranoid Axels, they find his name is, pulls a switchblade out on her and says she's going to answer their questions or she'll start losing things. Starting with those pretty little locks of hers, which I thought was interesting. And then that's when Callie uses Her powers to make it look like there's spiders crawling up his arm.
And then she comes down the stairs again. I like that they have her coming from down the stairs. It's establishing a power dynamic. She's the leader.
She looks so cool. She's got her hair buzzed on one side, and then it's dyed like a purple.
She goes up to Elle, asks where she got the paper from, and then they kind of have this moment of recognition, and then they both, like, show each other their tattoos. And this part makes me really emotional every time I see it where they call each other sister and then hug. It's really cute.
Okay, so apparently the styling of Cali and Elle is based off of Madonna. Apparently when Brithelson was. When she was brainstorming her dramatic haircut in the episode, she couldn't decide on one. So she told the hair department, you can go crazy. I don't care. Taking this advice, the hairstylist began to shave her hair. And Millie Bobby Brown, who was sitting next to her and had previously shaved her hair for the look and the first season, told her, you're in for a treat. Linnea. The violet part of her hair proved difficult to get just right, as attempted green and lavender blazes proved to look more innocent than they wanted. Berthelson recalled that she, after returning to her hometown of Copenhagen, had to dye her hair back to black and flip it to cover the shaped part so as not to spoil her role in this series.
And they got a lot of hate for their looks and their hairstyles. A lot of people. People did not like their styles.
[00:38:51] Speaker C: Why that is because they hadn't ever seen an 80s thing with punks before.
[00:38:59] Speaker A: I don't know. People just didn't like it. They thought it was crazy.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: The things that people fixate on.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: Like, I think that's kind of the point of the episode. Like, they're not supposed to look. I think it's because they don't look stereotypically attractive.
Like, I'm not saying they don't look attractive, but I think they don't look, like, stereotypically feminine. You know what I mean? Like, they look more androgynous. And I think people really struggle with that sometimes.
[00:39:23] Speaker C: I think sometimes people like to use these things to just kind of COVID their systemic racism.
Yeah, I think. I think, like, low key, deep down, that's like, when people don't, like. Like there has. That has to be ingrained in it.
[00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: I also think people really struggle when girls don't look, quote, unquote, pretty how they think.
[00:39:48] Speaker C: Pretty typical kind of heteronormative femininity.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Thank you. You word it much better. I'm, like, sitting over there.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: I'm like, they're not.
[00:39:55] Speaker A: It's not that they're not pretty.
[00:39:56] Speaker B: It's.
But it's interesting because, like, Elle so far hasn't been a character that looks, like, stereotypically feminine. Like, she doesn't wear feminine clothes she doesn't have there.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah. And to be fair, like, I think Elle has never been given the opportunity to dress herself, which I think is a narrative thing that they're really playing with, which I love. I love that they're showing how she's being dressed by so many people. Like, the overall she has. I bet you Hopper bought those. She didn't buy those for herself. Like, everyone is dressing her. Everyone has an idea of who they want her to be. And that is part of what is going on with Elle right now is she's over there going, I want the freedom to choose for myself. And she's experimenting. That's what you're supposed to do.
[00:40:45] Speaker C: It's so funny. As she was walking in in this scene, and she's got that cool, like, leather satchel, I was like, I actually love her outfit so much like that.
[00:40:52] Speaker A: Me too.
[00:40:52] Speaker C: Like, the plaid shirt and the jacket. I was like, that's totally an outfit I would. I would wear.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
So later, Kali and Ell are on top of the warehouse. Elle finishes up, filling her in on everything. Tells her that the memory her mother showed her is her only one of Cali, and that she has been with Hopper for 327 days and that he thinks he can out a deal with the people from the lab to set her free. Cie says Hop is naive and that they will always be monsters to them. And Hopper stopping her from using her gifts and that what she can do is incredible and makes her special. She says she has a gift too, and can make people see or not see whatever she chooses. And that, unlike what she did with Axel, she can make people see beautiful things too. She then shows Elle a beautiful butterfly, telling her that it's not real, but that she's just tricking her mind to believe it is and see it as a kind of magic. And Elle's like, well, are you real? Kind of like, pinches her. And then Callie says, yeah, yes.
And we hear this beautiful track outside the realm by big, giant circles. We last heard this in Trick or Treat. Freak. Again.
When Mike was telling Will that It feels like 11 still around. And then Jonathan drives Nancy home when she's like super drunk but seriously gorgeous. And then. Ls getting settled onto a cot now. And then Callie brings her a blanket before telling Elle that she feels whole now, like a piece of her was missing and now it's not. She tells Elle that she thinks Terry sent her there for a reason, that they belong together, and that this is her home. It's so funny. Hopper has told her at the beginning season, this is your home. I remember Mike in season one tells her, this will be your home. Like, everyone keeps telling her, this is your home now, these are the clothes that you're going to wear. This is your bed that I've gotten for you. Like, we just, we see continually that Elle has not claimed any place as her home. And she also has not really decided what she wants and who she wants to be either.
[00:42:39] Speaker C: It just all of these people just not manipulate late, but almost like tempt el with like belonging, even if it means that she doesn't get to fully be herself.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: Yeah, and.
[00:42:50] Speaker C: And I just think Millie Bobby Brown actually does a really great job of conveying that kind of sense of being lost but also being found at the same time, which I, I've never really like, I'm not a huge like, oh, her acting chops are like so good. But on but re watching and thinking about having to think deeper for talking about it. I'm like, oh, you can actually see some like, she's making. Making really great acting choices here that make you feel like, oh, this could be her home. And I don't care if she ever goes back to Hawkins.
[00:43:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and we'll talk about this more once we get to like the end of the episode. But I don't disagree with everything that Kali is saying. I think that some of the advice that Kali is giving to Elle is good advice and that there's some really like, helpful stuff mixed in there that Elle does actually need to learn and accept and embrace. And so downstairs in the warehouse, police scanner crackles as the gang hangs out. Cali heads down and Axel's like, hey, did you tuck your white hick sister in?
Then they start singing Old McDonald. And then Cali slams down the newspaper clipping of her cells and says, she found me with only this, which means she can find people without moving with nothing but an image. The group gathers around and we get heist esque music as Axel's like, you're telling me Shirley is a human radar detector? Or some Callie says yes and that they will find out soon enough and that she wants to do one tomorrow. The others don't want to do one that soon, saying that they're too hot and that you don't kill their men and expect them to look the other way. Callie is like, so we give in to fear. She's in pain. She needs this. And then finishes by saying that they are going to go out tomorrow. Axel throws a knife at a target as he says that Shirley Temple is going to get them all killed. I like how we're like, hang on, what's going on? Like, this seems kind of manipulative.
[00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: I have a.
[00:44:37] Speaker C: That's what I had a question for you, actually, was whether you think her emotional performance with Elle was just manipulative until she. Because it feels very. It's switched off when she goes downstairs. So I wasn't sure whether it's both or. Or. What do you kind of interpret that as?
[00:44:53] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean, the entire vibe that I got from Cie in this episode was that, like, we're not really supposed to be taking her side. Like, she's kind of there to tempt Elle into kind of the darker side side into, like, the dangerous side or whatever.
So I don't know, maybe knowing, like, having watched the entire series, like, kind of taints this for me. I don't know how to answer that without, like.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: I know, right?
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Without, like, thinking of. Without, like, disconnecting my brain from, like, other stuff that I know about the show.
I do think she's sincere in a way, but at the same time, I think that Callie is so ingrained in, like, this way of living that she's just thinking, oh, how can I use this other superpowered being to, like, make my life easier? You know? I don't know. It's. It's complicated, I think. But, like, I don't think we're meant to, like, trust her ultimately. Like, she's. She's kind of steering Elle wrong in a way. But I agree with Sarah that, like, she's also giving her good advice. Advice in other ways. But I think the end of the episode when Elle leaves, it's meant to be, like, okay, she's not choosing this path because of xyz. I don't know. Yeah.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: Every time I watch this part of the episode, I always get this, like, oh, I feel like I'm being manipulated here.
I feel like her face at the very end of the episode when she's in the bus or that she's in the car and faces out of reflection, you see that, like, just haunted, desperate look. I do believe that, like, she does feel whole when she's around. And l. And so I don't know that she's full. I think she. She is manipulating Elle, but I think in her mind, she thinks it's for a good reason. So I think it can be kind of both. Like, she thinks she's doing a bad thing, maybe for a good reason, or she. Like, she justifies it with, oh, this is good for her. She's in pain. This helped me, so therefore, I'm going to do that. I think in Cali's mind, this is a. Maybe. Maybe Cali thinks this is a good thing. This is the right way to go about that. So it's not in her mind, as black and white as we see it. It.
But, I mean, like, this girl was raised by Brenner. It makes sense that she's going to be a little bit more manipulative in the way that she relates with people that she loves. I mean, when you're taught a convoluted perspective of love, that becomes your norm. And so you see her kind of relating with El the same way that Brenner would have related with her.
[00:47:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess that's because her powers are like.
[00:47:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:22] Speaker C: Manipulates perception, so that probably bleeds. And manipulating perception just in her everyday life without her powers.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure the lines get blurry to certain point. Like, she's over there showing Elle that she can show her beautiful things, too, not just bad things. And so then there's probably this thing of, if I'm showing you something beautiful to get you to do what I want you to do, does that make it bad? Because I'm still bringing, like. I'm sure it gets really murky having that amount of power and being able to. To, like, mislead people or.
[00:47:55] Speaker C: I think that's why I was a little frustrated because I really enjoyed the scene where she was telling her that she felt whole and she was crying because it's. When you. Like, when I was really thinking about it, it was like, okay, this is the first time El's met someone who not only understands, like, her origin, not just her powers, but, like, the trauma of being in. In the lab. And it's like, the only other person that she has this shared experience with. So I was like. I was really, really in the moment. So then when she goes downstairs and she's like, you realize that she can literally find whoever we want. I was like, oh, for sake.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I trust you.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: We all trusted you.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: We were rooting for you.
I have never in my life yelled at a girl like this.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:48:45] Speaker A: All right. So interesting, though, that after this, L is listening to Hopper's message.
So she has this huge moment with Cali, and Cali's talking about how she feels whole, but L is laying there and then thinking about Hopper. So there's already, like, hints here that L doesn't quite feel the same way that Cali does. Like, she's obviously glad to find someone else, but there's still a part of her that's, you know, looking back at hoping Hawkins. So she's listening to this message. He tells her that he's sorry, that he's been gone too long and it's not because of her. And then Elle gets jerked out and woken up by Cali, who tells her it's morning and time to meet her friends properly. We get, like, a little friend montage, and we're introduced to Axel, the spider hater, who is complaining about how they have no food and need more money. Me for Real, played by James Landry Hebert, is, how you say? I think it's French. His first role was Brad, Brad Pitt's stand in on Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
His best known roles are Clem in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, this role. But he was also Harley in Euphoria in this most recent season. So I don't know. I haven't watched it. I don't know if you remember that, Leia.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: I don't even remember what this man looks like, to be honest.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: That's.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:50:01] Speaker A: Leia's like, what happened?
[00:50:02] Speaker B: Sorry. To this man.
[00:50:04] Speaker C: But why we spent. We spent so many minutes with him in Euphoria.
No, no, I'm talking about.
[00:50:11] Speaker B: No, in this episode, I'm like, which one is, by the way?
[00:50:14] Speaker A: Mohawk.
[00:50:15] Speaker C: Mohawk one.
[00:50:16] Speaker A: Oh, I like how their. Their idea of representation is one white man, one white woman, one black woman, one black man. There we go. We've covered all the ethnicities, guys.
He was also in the Expendables with Angel alumni Charisma Carpenter. I don't know if you guys remember her or not.
[00:50:35] Speaker C: Y.
Talk about expandable.
[00:50:43] Speaker B: I remember I went to see that movie because I was like, oh, my God, she's in it. And she's in it for, like, maybe 1.5 minutes.
[00:50:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
It's also like when I found out she was in Scream Queens by Ryan Murphy. She plays Ariana Grande's mom.
[00:50:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: Oh, that's so funny.
[00:51:01] Speaker B: Yeah, she was series.
[00:51:03] Speaker A: You're like, she was in that.
The white girl with the bow is doy. The newest member. She's played by Anna Jacobi Heron, best known for Contagion. In this role, Mick is the black girl described as their eyes, played by Gabrielle Maiden and known as the first African American female pro snowboarder. She's also the youngest daughter of Tony Maiden, lead guitarist and vocalist for legendary 70s funk band Rufus and Chaka King Han.
Crazy. Crazy. Funshine is their warrior, described as such by Kali. Funny enough, he's a ex bodybuilder. And Funshine is the name of a Care Bear, which is really, really funny.
And then Cie tells L that they are not like them. They. And that they don't have powers, but they are outcasts like them. Society left them behind, hurt them, discarded them. Funshine says that Cali saved them. Mick chimes in and says that they help her now. And Axel says that they are. That they fight back. Elle asks who they fight, and Callie dumps a bunch of IDs, telling Elle that everyone she sees here was in some way responsible for what happened to her and Elle. It's a little creepy. Like, they keep the badges as trophies. I was like, yeah, I feel like
[00:52:10] Speaker B: there's a better way to cope with your trauma, guys.
[00:52:13] Speaker A: You think so?
[00:52:14] Speaker B: I feel like.
[00:52:15] Speaker C: Like, take a Polaroid and write their name on it and just, like, keep it in a.
[00:52:18] Speaker B: Just do a burn book like regular people, like the rest of us.
[00:52:23] Speaker C: Brenner is the fugliest.
[00:52:29] Speaker B: I mean, does anyone anything better?
[00:52:37] Speaker A: I'm dying.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: We need to start a burn book.
[00:52:39] Speaker C: Yeah, burn book.
[00:52:42] Speaker B: No, I mean, like in real life. Oh, yeah, it's okay. We.
[00:52:47] Speaker A: We already know who. Who's in it. So we get a flashback to what the gang was up to in episode one. Pulling up to the building, shooting a man. C says that they are criminals and that they simply make them pay for their crimes. We see Cali collapsing the tunnel, evading the police. Axel's like, damn, surely you look like you've seen a ghost. And Dottie's like, well, we can't all be fighters, I guess. And Elle's like, no, I am a fighter. And that she's killed. And then we get more flashbacks from season one of L. Killing. With a snap of her neck, Callie compares her situation to theirs and asks if the men else killed deserved it. And when El says they hurt her, Cali says they still will hurt her or and us. They're just making the first move. Okay, thoughts on all of that? Like, the comparison between what Cali's doing, what Elle did, and how maybe Callie might be muddying the waters a little bit.
[00:53:38] Speaker C: I think it's nice to start having this conversation because after eleven did all of that at the end of season one, we haven't really talked about it or dealt with it or they haven't really forced Elle to maybe define her moral compass yet. So that's why. Another reason why I love this episode, because it, like, it goes right there. Yes. It's maybe taken a while to get here, but I like. I also like that these things aren't black and white and that they are gray. And if you are a character that's trying to protect people or look after people, sometimes these things happen. But I.
The thing that I think about 11 is that she. She has only killed in suit of like, instant protection or reactively. She's not proactively going out to look for people that have hurt her to. To try and kill them.
[00:54:21] Speaker A: Well, I just remember, like, again, Leia, you and I talking in season one, like, she downs all those people around her and we're kind of like, interesting because it's like the show doesn't really take a moral stance, but it's very clear that Elle is the victim in this situation. And so it's like, okay, at what point is she gonna grapple with this? That which I. I mean, I personally think that what Elle was doing was very much in self defense versus what Cali is doing here, which is actively seeking out these people.
So then outside, Cali and Elle are walking among a bunch of shipping containers as Cali tells Elle that she used to be just like her, that she kept her anger inside and tried to hide from it, but that the pain festered. She clarifies and says that it spread until she confronted her pain and began to heal. They come to a stop a few yards away from a train, and Callie tells Elle that she wants her to draw it to them. Them. L tries, and we see the train shudder and move slightly, but quickly settle again as L runs out of energy.
And this whole scene is just so reminiscent of like, Luke Skywalker X Men with Professor X teaching Magneto to move a satellite dish. Like just so many homages.
[00:55:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's really that Empire Strikes Back lifting the X Wing out of the swamp on the Dagoba. I wasn't sure if you're a Star wars fan and if you knew what reference they were talking about or Not.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: But I did. Leia has no clue. She's never seen any of Star Wars.
[00:55:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:55:44] Speaker C: How do you not see a Star wars at this stage in your life?
[00:55:48] Speaker A: At the big girl at this point,
[00:55:50] Speaker B: it's like, I'm gonna go out of my way not to see it. I've gone 32 and a half years without seeing it.
[00:55:58] Speaker A: But she has no problem wearing their merch.
[00:56:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, if it's on clear out, I'm gonna buy it.
Did I ever tell story I bought a. It was like a jean jacket from Levi's. Yep. And it was for like $30, a really nice jean jacket, but it had some fucking Star wars robot on the back.
So I bought it.
[00:56:21] Speaker A: Probably R2D too. You know, just some robot.
[00:56:23] Speaker B: And I used acetone to scrub the robot off the back. Oh, my God.
But it was $30. I wasn't gonna pass up that deal.
[00:56:33] Speaker C: That's kind of one thing I'm looking forward to if I come back to America is, like, going to, like, Walmart and all of, like, the, like, Star Wars T shirt or different TV T shirts that they have, you know, like in.
[00:56:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:43] Speaker C: Cereal brands or. Yeah, stuff like that. I'm excited for that.
[00:56:47] Speaker A: So Elle tells Cali that she can't move the train. Cali says that Elle told her that she had lifted a van once and that the bad men were trying to take her away again. That made her angry, that she needs to find that anger and focus on that, not the train. El tries again as Cali tells her to find something in her life that angers her and to channel it. And then Elle thinks of Max circling Mike as the train moves.
It's like the first thing she thinks of. I was like, girl, let's channel a little deeper. How about that?
And then she, of course, digs deeper. Then Callie says, your whole life, you've been lied to. We see a flashback of Hopper telling L that her mother isn't around anymore. Cali says that Elle has been imprisoned. And we see the orderlies throwing L into isolation and Hopper grounding her. The train moves closer as Cali says, the bad men took away your home, your mother. They took everything away from you. They stole your life, Jane. We see flashbacks after flashbacks of Terry screaming, El finding the demo, being left alone in the tank. We see Elle scream and rage the veins surrounding her eyes as the train moves closer. And then she collapses to her knees. A really powerful sequence, honestly, and one that I think Elle really, really needed.
[00:57:53] Speaker C: I love that. That first initial thing was Max going around Mike. Because I love that even though we get this idea that Elle is this weapon, on the surface, she is just a. A young girl.
So I thought that was important to be reminded of that. Like, her first thought is, like, jealousy over a boy that she likes. And I think it helps a boy
[00:58:15] Speaker A: put some respect on his name.
[00:58:17] Speaker B: Okay, it's not.
[00:58:21] Speaker A: There's Roz again.
Oh, wait, I cut that other part out. Dang it. Can't do a callback. Well, we always have to keep doing it then.
I hate it when a good joke we have to cut out and then we have a call back later on anyway.
[00:58:33] Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
[00:58:34] Speaker A: Was that the end of your point? Sorry, we dera.
[00:58:36] Speaker B: You just like.
[00:58:38] Speaker C: It wasn't a good point. You're like, was that the end of your point?
[00:58:41] Speaker B: Was that it?
[00:58:42] Speaker C: Jeez, you ded me like, l dead train. Is that what you.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. Yes, that was what I was saying.
Oh, wow.
Talk about male privilege. Repackaging my joke just made it funny.
Listeners, you heard it here first.
[00:58:59] Speaker C: Do you know who you're talking.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: The tape. Roll the tape.
[00:59:03] Speaker B: What?
[00:59:08] Speaker C: Sorry.
[00:59:09] Speaker A: This is so full of inside jokes. Our listeners are so confused.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: Okay, so sorry.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: Oh, man. If you join our discord and we'll give you guys context.
[00:59:20] Speaker B: No, I feel like that's not a good idea.
[00:59:25] Speaker A: Never mind. No, it's only for exception.
[00:59:26] Speaker B: Exclusive.
[00:59:27] Speaker A: Exclusive, people.
[00:59:28] Speaker B: I think the discord's closed now.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Too much dirt in there for people to use against us.
[00:59:33] Speaker B: It's too incriminating at this point.
[00:59:37] Speaker A: So true.
No, actually, Tony, I thought that was an excellent point, because I think, too,
[00:59:43] Speaker B: they're also showing you it didn't really seem like it.
[00:59:46] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
I think it was an excellent point because, yes, not only does it show, like, as a girl, like, the layers to her emotion, but it's also showing that she's peeling back all of the trauma, working from stuff that has happened maybe the most recently, and they're taking us all the way back. So it's showing that, like, she's digging deep, but also maybe that she's working through, like, everything in a lot of ways.
Maybe not completely and fully, but I like that it starts with that. And also, too, I think I make fun of the Max and Mike moment, but that moment is not just a. Oh, she's like Jeff jealous of Max stealing Mike. It's also her jealous of the fact that Max is able to be in these spaces that she cannot enter. And that's a whole part of her life that's been robbed from Her. So it really ties in with all the rest of the stuff that's going on. So, yeah, all that stuff.
[01:00:43] Speaker C: And Max can string a sentence together.
Me like skateboard too.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: Friend don't lie.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: Friend don't lie.
[01:00:55] Speaker C: Friend Skateboard. No.
[01:01:01] Speaker B: Promise.
Just promise.
[01:01:07] Speaker A: Okay. I got to keep. Keep us going.
[01:01:09] Speaker C: All right.
[01:01:10] Speaker A: The music that's playing right now is we here is she'll kill you. It's the same music that was playing in the Monster when she saved Mike from the Corey, which I really.
[01:01:20] Speaker C: They really do like to recycle.
Recycle the music.
[01:01:23] Speaker A: Oh, they do. It's not always intentional. Every once in a while it is. But the Duffers are.
They. They don't do well with subtext.
They're cheap, but they're also just very surface level. I'm like, oh, what's the hidden.
[01:01:36] Speaker B: They pay good money for those songs. Yeah.
[01:01:39] Speaker A: They're gonna play them even if they fit there or not. I've got. Looking at you, Purple Rain. Okay, so then we have.
Oh, I have beef. Don't worry.
I know. That is gonna be so unpopular anyway. All right, I have little. Excerpt from the essay the queer subtext of Stranger Things. So we talked about this last episode with the whole idea of Will being in the closet and how there's a lot of queer subtext with both him and Elle. Whether or not they're actually gay, there's still just a lot of that subtext there. So like Will 11 has a connection with the upside down and the monsters that inhabit it. And she is a medical curiosity. And we talked a lot about how know the AIDS Crisis in the 80s was a huge factor in a lot of these film, in a lot of the film and art communities and such. But also, whether intentional or not, it feels like there's a lot of subtext in it in this season for Will and then even with Elle's mom. Elle appears in a hospital gown, has a number tattooed on her arm, calling to mind the numbering of patients who are diagnosed with HIV in the early, early stages of the illness emerging in America. Like Will, eleven's life is also framed as disposable. In the interests of science and under the guise of protecting the wider population from harm, she's subjected to medical and scientific experimentation and dehumanized a numbered statistic as opposed to a named individual. Both will and 11 are used by a state funded medical institution which purports to be helping them. And this is its parallels with the positioning of medical science as an enemy of AIDS activism in the way it devised labels, labels for risk group categories and develop treatments which led to further deaths and which resulted in already disenfranchised groups becoming further marginalized. There are deeply disturbing references to the use of the widely discredited practices of conversion therapy on Eleven's mother, and it is alluded to in the context of Eleven and her sister Kali. Eleven is told in the first season, you're sick, so I'm going to make you better. And when the upside down is torched, Will feels the pain as if he too is burning. And the image of him on the floor and convulsing evokes images of patients and victims responding to electroshock therapy. In Eleven's case, the fact the experimental procedures took place in the Rainbow Room further connects the oppressive practices of Hawkins with oppression of LGBT people, underscored by Cali's observation that the vigilante warriors are the ones who society left behind and discarded. So I feel like from the very beginning, all the way to the very end, there are so many parallels between Will and L. I feel like there's a lot of connections between the two of them, and it's always just really fun watching the show and just seeing how they. They're very intertwined.
So. Thought that was interesting. Just a continuation of our conversation from last time.
[01:04:21] Speaker C: Yeah, that's because that's one of the things that I like. The othered kids being in the Rainbow Room is something that I kind of only struck me, really, watching this, this episode, especially when specifically Jean's aunt asked her, like, what she looked like and she said different. So I. I like that. I just thought that was a really great way. And like you said, I hadn't really thought about, I think Will's journey this season as kind of, kind of related or having that similar kind of message. But now when I think about it, I can. I can see it especially maybe having something, you know, the. The internal that doesn't maybe come out for a while. And how it changes people's, like, perception of him, I just think is really smart. Because did you know before it was called HIV or aids it was called grid, which stood for Gay Related Immunodeficiency.
[01:05:10] Speaker A: Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, because they were like, oh, it's only something that is a part of the gay lifestyle. And it's. Yeah, and that was something we talked about last episode, which was like, it's something that gay people have to deal with, but it's not exclusive just to gay lifestyle and gay people.
[01:05:28] Speaker C: Especially. Especially not nowadays within Europe. There's Actually, higher rates of heterosexual people than that are contracting crazy hiv. And a lot of it is down to miseducation and not understanding that you can, you know, access medications like PrEP, which obviously helps completely stop the transmission. And the. There is actually within the UK they've got a.
They've got a plan that by 2030 that they will have stopped any new transmissions of HIV. Wow.
[01:05:57] Speaker A: That's incredible. That's so crazy.
Okay, so Cali and the gang take L to a room with their version of a red string board filled with photos and documents of all the people from the lab. Callie tells her that these are the bad men that they believe are still alive and ask Elle if she knows any again. Okay. Do you notice how Cali's dumbing down the language for Elle? Like, it's really interesting. She just keeps referring to him as bad men. It's very black and white language, too. It makes it a little bit easier for Elle. And I think that's why at the very end, all of a sudden, it becomes a little bit murkier for Elle. And she goes, hang on. It's not just a black and white bad good anymore. Elle focuses on a man that she had seen in Terry's flashback who helped lobotomize her mother. Callie fills in some blanks and says that his name is Ra Carol, and that he did more than hurt Terry. We see a flashback of Ray electrocuting a tiny Cie with a smile on his face. Cie says bad men like Ray know about them and it has made them hard to track. But then looks at Ellen is like, maybe not anymore.
And so then El crumples up the paper. Her face is all set. And we next see her blindfolded next to the static of the radio. She looks for Ray before grimly nodding in confirmation. Then we see the gang work together to find Rey's address, with Mick saying that they don't have a new ride, that it's risky to just swap plates. But Cali, Callie feeling like, guys, we got this. We got our secret weapon. We can't be stopped.
And she's actually having fun with the risks.
They all agree. And then we get our second makeover montage of the series with the gang combing her hair back, putting on lipstick and a smoky eye, all black, just like Cali's. Dottie's, like, bitching at her new look, and El's, like, bitching. We get a slow MO of the gang walking down the alley towards their van all suited up, and they'd end up driving past a Group of cops arresting a guy and the cop is like watching them suspicious. Obviously, the gang's rocking out in the car as Cali finds a mask that fits Elle. So the song that plays right here is Dead End justice by the Runaways, which is like perfect for this. And then we also have back to the queer subtext of Stranger Things. They're talking about how Elle can be further viewed through a queer lens due to her ambivalent gender presentation. We talked a lot about this last season. In the first season, she's frequently mistaken for a boy. Lucas describes Eleven as a weirdo as a result of her non normative of appearance. In an effort to make her appear less alien, they end up dressing her in the pink dress and the blonde wig. This passes comment not only on stereotypes of performative femininity, but also allows 11 to later reject those stereotypes in favor and ultimately more androgynous appearance.
Which I want to talk real fast about. Like the hairstyles. So Axel names her Shirley Temple for the beginning of the episode, which is so interesting. Interesting because last season everyone was pointing out and talking about how her hair was buzz cut. Remember Ted? Like they're the government's showing him pictures of this girl that's been hiding in his basement. And the most relevant information that or question he can think to ask is what happened to her hair? Because for Ted and for most people like him, appearances is all that matters. Right? You need to look male, you need to look female. So we know where to categorize you, where to place you in our society. And. And so I think now with her hair growing out a little bit more, she looks more classically female. And so Axel making that distinction between them and her by calling her Shirley Temple is really interesting by saying, oh, we are the othered ones. You're not. You go back to your farm, you go back to your normal life, which is interesting.
And so then obviously what Elle is wearing right now, like we talked about before, is not stereotypically. I use the word pretty because that's the word that Elle has been used using for forever. When she's looking at Nancy's room, Nancy's life, she uses that word pretty, as that's the life I want to fit into. We talked all about this in the episode you were in Tony. But then she's never really given a chance in season one to find her own sense of style. And now we have that parallel with Cali and her gang giving her their version of a makeover and styling her and dressing her how they they want to. And instead of pretty, it's bitchin. And I just like, I love that parallel and I really hope I, I First of all, I love that Elle is learning to love this side of herself and not be so afraid of it. But I'm looking forward to seeing what her style is going to be and who she wants to be when we don't have somebody else styling her.
[01:10:13] Speaker C: So that's why I really like that the two times that she's had, she's been styled, it's been on opposite ends of like the normative gender spectrum. So now she can find somewhere in between that is hers. And I think it was quite smart to do, to do it that that way because wherever she settles in between, she can kind of maybe pull bits from whatever. It'll ultimately seem like her choice. But I wonder how influenced it'll be by the two makeovers that she's had.
[01:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
So they stop off at a gas station. Elle's like, what are we doing? Callie's like stocking up. And then the cat, Callie tells the attendant that his bathroom is leaking. And then he sees water flooding out under the door, which, you know, we see him waiting over a non existent water and he heads inside. Axel plays game show host and is like, you have a minute and a half. Begin your supermarket sweep. They all spread out, of course. L discards an apple for a box of Eggos because, you know, never gonna, never gonna change.
Axel grabs money out of the register. Funshine grabs some beer. Doy has some tampons. While she tries on sunglasses. I love how she's getting the essentials. Axel gets interrupted. The attendant comes back and pulls a gun on on him. And then Cali is over there like, no, we're on the same side as you. Your money's insured. I was like, I don't think that approach would have worked in the 80s, but I think it would work now.
[01:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, take it.
[01:11:34] Speaker A: He's like, actually, can I take some of that money too? Let's all just pretend that you robbed.
[01:11:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:11:41] Speaker A: So then Elle ends up lunging forward and then using her powers to shove Daryl is his name back against the wall, rendering him unconscious. Unconscious. Then they hear the police coming. They all take back into the van or get back to the van.
And then it's night now and they're parked behind some apartment buildings. Mick suggests that they case the place and stick to the routine. But Cali, again, still feeling confident, asks Elle if she can look. Elle agrees, closes her eyes, and then says that he's in front of the television. Mick asks if he's alone, but El says that she saw him and no one else, which isn't confirmation, but they end up going in. Mickey is still in the car, and she's gonna meet them out back and in the building. Reyes watching Punky Brewster on the TV alone. Okay, so you guys said that you've seen him in other things. I don't know what else he's been in. Do you know.
[01:12:27] Speaker C: Have you seen Alias?
[01:12:29] Speaker B: No, haven't seen Alias.
[01:12:31] Speaker C: Oh, okay. So he was.
[01:12:32] Speaker B: I've seen him in, like, so many things, but I can't remember from what.
[01:12:35] Speaker C: Well, he was in the new Superman movie. He was Superman.
[01:12:38] Speaker B: Yes.
Yes.
[01:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true.
I knew his face looked familiar, but I didn't know what he's been. Been in.
[01:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah, he's also in agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and I also remember him from Alias, so, like, two other big shows that I.
[01:12:51] Speaker A: That I gotcha.
[01:12:52] Speaker C: Like, okay.
[01:12:53] Speaker B: He's just, like a familiar face on tv.
[01:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. For a brief moment, I thought he was, like, the guy that was, like, manning the control panels. That was, like, throwing his ball against the wall. And earlier in the season. Then I realized it's completely different white man.
But, yeah, they all.
[01:13:09] Speaker C: Because they all look the same.
[01:13:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I can't tell the difference between white men, Ray, or. The TV kind of shuts off. Ray fiddles with it, and we see the gang enter the apartment behind him. Cali announces their arrival with a hello. Ray Funshine manhandles him into his recliner. Ray begs for them to just take what they want. Dottie and Axel end up heading to his bedroom while Cali and Elle stand over him. This part was so creepy. I loved it. When the lights flicker and then all of a sudden you see them as their child. Wild Versions.
Rey looks absolutely horrified, and suddenly the lights flicker. The girls are their older versions again. Cali strikes Ray. Elle says, you hurt Mama. Then uses her power to fling Ray into the wall. Race. Like, what they. He begins to beg. Says he just did what he told him to do, that he said she was sick, which is such an interesting choice of words because you could say that Elle was just doing whatever Brenner told her to do, and then Elle's just doing whatever Cali told her to do. In this moment, Elle makes a different choice from both of those people and shows why she's different. And I love that also, too. Up until now, I think Elle has been really, really susceptible to whatever people are telling her because she so desperately wants that love and affirmation and to feel like she belongs. And so I really enjoy that she's making choices that go against the grain, and it's showing that she's deprogramming herself.
[01:14:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Because this is. This is the moment where she, like, defines her mom moral compass, essentially.
[01:14:41] Speaker A: And it's just.
[01:14:43] Speaker C: It's so important to. For her to decide to not be vengeful, to not be what the lab said she was, to not be what Cali says she is. Like, she chooses her own. She breaks away from, like, everyone else's world view that they're trying to push on her. And I. I loved it.
[01:14:58] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:14:59] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:14:59] Speaker A: So Ray says that Papa is still alive. Callie says for him to not lie. Ray says he's not and that Brenner trusts him, that he will take them to him. Callie says that if Brenner is alive, that Jane will find him just as she found him. Then tells Elle to kill him, essentially. And then we have rage filling her face. Elle begins to strangle Rey with her powers while Cali eggs are on, telling her not to do it too quick, that he wasn't so generous with her mother. And then as Elle strangles Rey, she notices a photograph of Rey with two young girls. And then we see Axel and Dottie finding a girl's bedroom with the two girls on the phone with the dispatcher. Apparently, there's a band of rainbows between clouds pattern that surrounds the room. So it's like a direct correlation between L and Cat Cali.
So back in the living room, the fight has gone out of L. She lets go of Ray. Callie's like, what's wrong? Dottie and Axel come in, tell him about the girls in the phone call, and they're like, we need to get out. L looks conflicted as Rey continues to beg. Cali doesn't want to let him go, and asks L, did he show your mother mercy? No. He took her from you without hesitation. Axel's like, we have to go. And Callie says that they finish this first, tells L to do it. Now. L is completely frozen, so Callie whips out a gun and points it at him, only for L to whip it out of her hand and out. Out the window with a snap of her head. And Callie just stares at her in disbelief, like utter betrayal, like, ugh, the actress is so good. And then Elle looks back at Rey, and the sirens get louder. We see the cops pulling up the apartment. The gang runs out the back and gets into the van in the back. Cie Tells a stunned L that if you wanted to show mercy, that is your choice. But don't you ever take away mine. Ever. And L. L looks like she's breathing heavily. She's looking terrified. Fish out of water. Water.
Yeah.
And I think, like you were saying, like, this is so important. I think, again, this is L making a moral stance, which is good, because that. I think that we needed that defined, like you guys were saying. But it also shows that Elle's working against the programming that Papa ingrained in her about being the monster. Something is calling out to you. And it's also important because in this moment, Elle realizes that they're essentially perpetuating a cycle that begins with violence and unchecked power and ends with innocent kids getting hurt. And you could argue that. That Cie's actually doing what Papa conditioned her to do with her powers, whereas El is breaking that cycle right now and showing.
[01:17:12] Speaker C: Exactly. That's. I. I love, like, that. This scene highlights, I think, the difference in their power philosophies because it's like, Kelly obviously uses hers for control and revenge. And she even says, you know, with the, like, if someone hurts you, you hurt them back. And 11 has only really used her power for protection so far. Even if she doesn't fully understand her power, it's always usually been being in service of, like, protecting. So I love that we can see that. Even though that they both have the same origin, we're now starting to see the diversion of, like, the outcomes depending on, like, their personal choices. And I think a lot of that for, obviously, Elle has to do with her empathy and her connection and love that she has with, like, Hopper and the boys, whereas Callie's just festered in her own anger and isolation.
[01:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like.
[01:18:00] Speaker B: But Buffy and Faith.
[01:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The seduction for sure. Which is so ironic because then you have Cali telling Elle that she has something that's festering. And I'm, like, sitting there going, girl. I think after this episode, we're all
[01:18:13] Speaker C: looking from within side.
[01:18:15] Speaker A: Literally. Literally. Literally.
So back at the warehouse, the gang is listening to the police scanner again. Axel goes through the loot. Funshine and Dottie play cards, mix on lookout. Again, the music that plays right here is L is gone from the end of season one when Eleven sacrifices herself for the boys, which I think is a pretty intentional choice for this entire sequence here where they're talking about Elle's choices. So Callie throws more wood on the fire while Elle's up in her room alone hugging her old clothes. I think this is Mike's flannel that she's hugging. Cie comes in and
[01:18:52] Speaker B: Mike are obsessed with each other. Other?
[01:18:55] Speaker A: Lila just keeps me like, you're 11.
[01:18:58] Speaker C: You're.
[01:18:58] Speaker A: You're 12 now.
There are more fish in the sea. Not for L.
Callie comes in and tells Elle that she was once like her. But that's why she's hard on her, because she sees her and her past mistakes. Elle says that they were kids. Cie asks, does that excuse that man's sins? Were we not also children? I remember the day I came to the Rainbow Room and you were gone. So when my gifts were strong enough, I yelled, used them to escape. And I ran away as far as I could. And it was there, far away, that I found a place to hide. A family, a home. Just like you and your policeman. But they couldn't help me. So eventually, I lost them, too. So I decided to play the part, to stop hiding, to use my gifts against those who'd hurt us. You're now faced with the same choice, Jane. Go back into hiding and hope they don't find you. Fight and face them again. The man who calls himself our father, Elle, emphatically is like, papa's dead. We hear Brenner's voice from behind her.
That. That says, that man tonight disagreed. Elle whirls around. There's Brenner. And then she's like, you're not real. And then he says, all this time and you haven't looked for me. Why? Because you thought I was dead? Or because you were afraid of what you might find? Elle tells him to go away, but he steps closer and tells her that she has to confront her pain. You have a wound. 11. A terrible wound. And it's festering, which is just the metaphor for this entire season, which. And I would argue Cali is. Isn't wrong. There is a wound that is festering in Hawkins. And that by. I think the subtext of this episode is that by Elle deciding to go back to Hawkins, she's actually dealing with the root of the problem versus Cali, who is just. She's actually festering.
[01:20:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:20:33] Speaker A: Yep.
So then Brenner leans down and says, do you remember what that means? Festering? It means a rot. And it will grow, spread, and eventually it will kill. Kill you. Yep. And again. Again. All that monstrous womb, monstrous feminine female rage. It ties in so nicely with this season and last season. L opened the portal to the Upside down because of all of those emotions, that fear, that anger, that sadness. And so, like anything, those emotions served her during that time. But those emotions no longer serve her, and it's time for her to heal and to close that way wound. And I think it's fitting that Terry's the one that sends El to Cali to face all of this, because all of this started with El being ripped out of her mother's womb.
So then Elle screams for Cie to get out of her head, then breaks into tears. Cie bends in front of her and says, this isn't a prison. You're always free to return to your policeman or stay and avenge your mother. Let us heal our wounds together. And then she leaves. And Al just bows her head.
Oh, Kali.
[01:21:35] Speaker C: Yes. Such a manipulative. We co.
[01:21:41] Speaker A: Your tune has real changed from the beginning of this episode.
[01:21:44] Speaker B: Yeah, you're just like, oh, my God, Sisters.
[01:21:47] Speaker C: I can still love it, though. I can still love it and be like she's.
[01:21:51] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:21:55] Speaker C: no, it's like the nuns. You know, the friendly nuns that, like, love stuff. Like, Sisters are so good at that.
Sister.
[01:22:01] Speaker B: No, no, James Charles sisters.
[01:22:03] Speaker C: But we can talk about James Charles. He is a pedophile.
[01:22:07] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[01:22:08] Speaker C: Sorry.
[01:22:10] Speaker A: He always talks like he has the stars.
[01:22:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:22:13] Speaker B: Hi, sisters.
[01:22:15] Speaker C: Hi. The Today we're doing makeup. Oh, my God.
[01:22:18] Speaker A: No, no. James Charles sounds like he has. He's like got marbles in his mouth. He always looks like he sounds like
[01:22:23] Speaker B: he has Invisalign all the time.
[01:22:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:22:26] Speaker A: Or like a retainer in his mouth. He talks like he's a retainer
[01:22:31] Speaker B: to. Back in.
[01:22:35] Speaker A: Sorry to trigger everyone. James Charles jump scare.
So then we see a bunch.
Roz and James Charles.
[01:22:47] Speaker B: James Charles.
[01:22:49] Speaker C: Yep.
[01:22:49] Speaker A: We see a bunch of. Please.
[01:22:53] Speaker B: Hi, Sisters.
[01:22:55] Speaker A: I give up. Lead the rest of the. Lead the rest of that part. Episode. Go ahead.
In RAW. In RAW's voice, we see a bunch of police vehicles approaching.
[01:23:04] Speaker C: A bunch of police pull up to the warehouse.
[01:23:09] Speaker A: Where are they? Batman, voice. It's like Bane.
[01:23:11] Speaker C: Where are they?
[01:23:14] Speaker A: The gang is still playing cards. Ask Mick if she would like to be dealt in. And they end up distracting her. Not seeing all the agents and police crawling all over the entire building. Building up in her room. Ellis holding her flannel close with her eyes shut. She remembers her time with the boys. Mike building her the blanket for naming her Dustin, claiming her as his friend after she saved them. Mike reassuring her that she's not the monster. So, like, all of these are kind of paralleling the rageful flashbacks that she was having earlier on with the train, kind of showing how she maybe has had that release. And so now she can look at all of the good in her life and go, okay, this is what I would like to cling to to.
Elle is in the mindscape watching Hopper in the lab. As he points to the screen, we hear his last lines from the previous episode. As he talks about being in the graveyard, she hears Mike yelling about needing to get through that. It's a trap. L runs to him screaming, mike. And I'm like, girl, you know this is a mindscape. And then he leaves. And she's like, where are you? I was like, girl, girl, he's not here. Also, you can find him. Also, you know where he is.
[01:24:17] Speaker B: Like, yeah, you've been literally spied on him.
[01:24:20] Speaker A: She, like, becomes dumber, like, five points, literally. And I'm like, mike.
[01:24:26] Speaker B: Mike, where are you? Mike? Mike? Hello?
[01:24:31] Speaker C: Where are you?
[01:24:32] Speaker B: Sister.
[01:24:32] Speaker C: Sister.
Today we're trying to find Mike.
[01:24:41] Speaker B: L. Every three seconds.
[01:24:44] Speaker A: Mike. Mike.
[01:24:45] Speaker B: Mike.
[01:24:45] Speaker A: It's like. Like the.
[01:24:46] Speaker C: The seagulls and Finding Nemo.
[01:24:47] Speaker A: The seagulls. Thank you. I was going to call them pigeons. They're not pigeons, for sure.
The pigeons.
[01:24:56] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:24:56] Speaker A: Thank you.
[01:24:57] Speaker B: That was so beautiful.
Oh, my God.
Is there a pigeon in this studio?
[01:25:04] Speaker A: Anyway, we hear banging. Suddenly, we're back in the real world, where the police are banging down the doors of the warehouse.
And then Elsie's. That they're. The floor of the warehouse is being swarmed by officers. Cie taps her on the shoulder and leads her through to where the rest of the gang is at. Immediately shuts down their instincts to run and tells them to be quiet, stay still. The officers swarm the room immediately, and we don't see the gang, and they don't see the gang frozen in the center of the room, invisible thanks to Cie's powers. I don't understand why she didn't just say, I'll shield you, and we're going to tiptoe out of the room. I. Standing in the center of the room felt like a stupid decision, especially because Mick has a lit cigarette right there.
I don't know how they didn't smell that. Unless Cali can also affect people's senses.
[01:25:50] Speaker C: I think if they. If they knew that they had just ran out, it would make sense for them still to be able to smell the cigarette, because it maybe was just, like, 30 seconds ago or whatever.
[01:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess.
[01:26:00] Speaker B: So she can make them think they're not smelling it either, though, probably.
[01:26:03] Speaker A: Can she?
[01:26:05] Speaker B: I think her powers are, like, manipulating the mind. Yeah.
[01:26:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Okay.
[01:26:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:26:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess that would be the case. So then why can't she just Change the fact that they can hear footsteps walking out of the room. Why can't they all just.
[01:26:17] Speaker B: I don't know.
[01:26:17] Speaker A: Anyway, whatever. I. I think this was. Could have been a better plan.
[01:26:20] Speaker B: Cali.
[01:26:21] Speaker A: Okay, we're saying you've done all episodes.
[01:26:25] Speaker C: It was just another good way to. Let's see what her pars were. But I did. I had some similar thoughts of, like, okay, if the police are going to walk through them, like, can they walk through them? Or would they bump into them? And then obviously they show.
They show Axel, like, kind of moving out of the way.
[01:26:40] Speaker B: Or they would bump into them, but then they would think that they didn't bump into anything.
[01:26:44] Speaker A: Right.
[01:26:44] Speaker B: They would just be like, oh, like, where? What is. Like, nothing happened. They would just continue walking even though they're, like, laying on the ground because they just bumped into another human. Yeah, Fell. That would be so, so funny.
[01:26:57] Speaker A: I think there's also, like, a time limit to how long Cali can hold the illusion, too, because it seems like there's.
[01:27:04] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[01:27:06] Speaker B: Anything. Like, l. It feels like. It seems like it takes, like, energy out of them to use their powers
[01:27:11] Speaker C: the length of a nosebleed.
[01:27:12] Speaker B: So.
[01:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
Which every time I see the nosebleed, I'm like, are you, like, popping blood vessels? Are you, like, what's happening that's causing you brain damage? Yeah, brain damage. They're losing. No, another brain cell.
So we have them pass very closely, and they go to the next room. And as soon as they're gone, Cali leads them outside to the van, but there are more officers waiting. They begin to shoot. Axel just starts shooting back. They all hide behind the van, but they're clearly trapped. I love how the officers just keep shooting at the van. I'm like, the tires just puncture the tires can't go anywhere, but never do. Temporarily confused, the gang gets in their van with Cali holding out her hand to L, but L hesitates, remembering what she just saw of Hopper and Mike.
[01:27:50] Speaker B: I was.
[01:27:51] Speaker A: Will say. I will say.
I think sometimes the duffers don't have to do so many flashbacks of things that we just saw, like, five minutes earlier. I. Sometimes it feels like the duffers don't always trust their audience.
Like, they're sometimes just too, like. Like shoving it down our throat. It's like, okay, let us figure out a little bit. Let us have some nuance. Like, it's just always so obvious, and I think sometimes it's good. But some, like, they over overuse it.
[01:28:18] Speaker B: And have you seen how people talk about shows online?
[01:28:22] Speaker A: No, please tell me.
[01:28:25] Speaker B: I feel like people need to be shoved down because.
[01:28:29] Speaker A: But I. Yeah, people.
[01:28:31] Speaker C: Like, why did she. Why did she choose to leave them?
[01:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:28:34] Speaker B: Like, they. They literally. Like, if you don't say it, like, right before it happens, like, they will literally be like, yeah, but why. Why did. L decide to do. Like, why did.
[01:28:46] Speaker C: Well, yeah, that's actually something that recently in the film that I forget who it was Ben Affleck and Matt Damon did for Netflix. I think we talked about it. When you guessed it.
[01:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:28:56] Speaker C: Where they. They were told by Netflix they had to reiterate the plot throughout the script because people's attention span.
[01:29:03] Speaker A: People are on their fans.
[01:29:04] Speaker C: Wasn't big enough. Which is insane because I'm just like, if you're that dumb, don't watch a show that, like, requires you to have to think.
[01:29:11] Speaker A: And here's the thing, too. Okay, I would understand if maybe we're getting an episode a week. But first of all, we're getting all of our episode in batches. You could just scroll back to the other one or jump ahead. But also, we literally just saw this, like, four minutes, 10 seconds ago. Like, it really wasn't that long. Yeah.
[01:29:29] Speaker B: But, like, it's interesting because I feel like they literally. It's like they're watching that scene only and they're not. Like, it's not clicking that there's context outside of this scene. Sometimes I want more. So they have to reiterate the context.
[01:29:44] Speaker A: I know. I know they do. It's just annoying because I think that I just really appreciate when I have to. Like, I find myself tuning out more and going on my phone when shows start doing that. But when it's a show that I'm locked in and I actually have to pay attention, I put my phone down and I'm like, okay, let's figure out what's going on here. But I know. I know not. I'm not locked like other girls, so.
Sisters.
[01:30:10] Speaker B: Sisters.
[01:30:11] Speaker A: So I just. Yeah, I don't know. I. I just. I think that we're. We're doing a disservice by having so much just put in front of us and, like, spelled out for us. But that's just my personal opinion.
Yeah.
[01:30:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:30:25] Speaker A: Anyway.
[01:30:26] Speaker B: Open the schools.
[01:30:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Open the school.
Yes, please.
Maybe, like, let's not have a monopoly on streaming services. Maybe let's get back to the arts and have people.
[01:30:40] Speaker B: I feel like, regardless, like, everywhere, even if cable TV came back, like, even if everybody got cable again and we had network tv, I feel like it would be the Same because we live in such a, like, capitalistic, like, time right now. I mean, it's always been this. This way, but it's getting. So the main goal of production companies and networks is to make money, and that means tune in.
[01:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[01:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And the only way you're going to get people to tune in is if you do exactly that, you know, which it sucks, but it does suck. Yeah.
[01:31:16] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:31:17] Speaker A: All right. So Elle shakes her head, says she's sorry, but she has to go back, that her friends are in danger. Axel's like, this isn't the time for a chat. We have to go. We see the barrier starting to disintegrate. Callie tells Elle that her mother sent her there for a reason. Reason that they belong together and that there's nothing for her back there. They cannot save you, Jane. Elle shakes her head and says no as she remembers that moment on top of the quarry where they all had that hug. And it's so sweet, she says, but I can save them. And I was like, I love this scene. Elle walks away. Callie's yelling her name. We get that sweet shot. The officers opening fire at the van, and there's a slow mo of l just racing down the alley. I just love, love this purpose. L has now found her reason, and she's more certain in herself, more grounded. And I don't know, I just. Elle needed this so badly.
[01:32:03] Speaker C: I also love the effect of.
Of Callie's illusion disintegrating because it was like rainbow. Yeah.
So I thought it was quite cool. It was just very. Because I also loved when we see that illusion happen. It was just like. It was quite epic because I'm sure the policemen were like, what the going on here? But then when you see it kind of glimmering and disintegrating, it was all like. Like rainbow, like an oil slick, which I just thought looked really, really cool.
[01:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I was also going to say, too, Tony, like, it's almost kind of a metaphor for what's happening. The illusion that Cali had built for Elle of, like, a sisters. We can do all this stuff. And that's disintegrating for Elle right now. She's kind of being faced with the realities of what's happening.
[01:32:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:32:45] Speaker A: Beyond again, another important moment of Elle choosing to come to the aid of those she loves.
Not because she's coerced or manipulated, like with Papa, or because she feels like she should die, like in the end of season one. That was one of my big criticism. When she went up against the Demogorgon. It was like, is she doing this out of a sense of obligation? Of, like, if you love someone, you're just always going to sacrifice for them? Or I actually need to die because I'm part of the problem? Or, you know, all that other stuff that was going on in her head in this moment, it really feels like, no, Ella's gonna go fight the monster. Not because she has to, but because she wants to. And because in her mind, like, this is her way of expressing her love.
[01:33:26] Speaker C: This is the moment she becomes a hero because she. She chooses to go back rather. Rather than, you know, anyone kind of manipulating her.
[01:33:34] Speaker A: Yep. This is her breaking the cycle. And that's what makes this episode so good.
[01:33:39] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:33:40] Speaker A: And then we have Cali just devastated, in tears and in shock. She looks out the window, which I think this was a great moment because I think it humanizes Cali and doesn' make her so villainous.
And I love this fade out the crossfade of the two of them both looking out the window. Like, they're always going to be connected, which is really beautiful.
[01:33:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:33:58] Speaker A: And the sweet older lady asks Elle if she's all right, if she can join her. Elle nods at her seat. And the lady strikes up a conversation so cliche. Where are you going, honey? Where you going, sweetie? And she says, I'm going to my friends. I'm going home.
[01:34:10] Speaker C: None of your business. Get back in your own seat.
[01:34:13] Speaker B: Like, why are they always talking on the bus, the planes?
[01:34:18] Speaker C: You're so young to be traveling alone. I went to New York when I was 11.
[01:34:22] Speaker B: Did you?
[01:34:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I mean, I was like, not with my parents, but I was with, like, a group of people, but I had to travel.
[01:34:29] Speaker B: I was like, how did you get there by yourself at 11?
[01:34:32] Speaker C: Yeah, it was just with a big group of children.
[01:34:36] Speaker B: You guys just all went there by yourselves.
[01:34:38] Speaker A: I was like, wait, did you have a chaperone?
[01:34:40] Speaker C: Yeah, we had chaperones, but we were like, we had to get buses and stuff by ourselves. Like, we were put on buses by ourselves. We were put on planes and stuff by. By ourselves.
[01:34:48] Speaker B: Damn. Wow.
[01:34:49] Speaker A: I would not trust my 11 year old or my 10 year old to do anything.
[01:34:52] Speaker C: I. I had my spending money, like, sewed into my treasure pocket so I would. Oh, my God,
[01:35:00] Speaker B: I love that.
[01:35:00] Speaker A: Did you get back on the plane at the very end? Go, I'm going home.
[01:35:04] Speaker C: I had a. I had an American accent by the. When the six. Oh, my God.
[01:35:08] Speaker B: Give us your best American accent right now.
[01:35:11] Speaker C: It depends on big best because, like, my go to is always like a Valley girl. But I definitely remember when I was like, 11, getting on the bus next to my friend Lorna, who I went to school with, and we both spent six weeks in New York, and we were like, oh, my. It had the Northern Irish American twine. We're like, oh, my gosh. Like, what has happened to our voices? We're like, oh, my God. We're like. We're like, totally American right now. Like, oh, my gosh.
What are you talking about? Boot.
[01:35:40] Speaker B: A boot, a boot, a boot. We don't even say that up here.
[01:35:46] Speaker A: Okay, you guys, very close every once in a while.
[01:35:49] Speaker B: I've heard you say it.
[01:35:50] Speaker A: I hear you say it. Like, it. It comes out. It's not as, like, pronounced as Tony made it, but I can definitely hear it.
It's cute. I like it.
[01:36:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:36:00] Speaker C: What are you talking about?
[01:36:02] Speaker B: Yeah, what are you even talking about?
A.
[01:36:06] Speaker A: Anyway, that's the end of the episode. Close out to Whisper to a Scream by the icicle works. And nice. That's it.
I don't know. I have a new appreciation for that episode. I think that, if anything, it gives us an excellent female centered episode that passes the Bechdel test for sure.
And, like, it was directed by a woman, has a lot of strong women in this. And then it just. It's so good for Elle's development. And it makes me so excited to talk about the rest of this season and even season three. I'm so excited. Like, the more I've talked about season two, the more excited I am for season three because I'm just seeing the building blocks and where we're going. And I've never really liked season three, so I'm excited to, like, get into.
[01:36:49] Speaker C: Season three is one of my favorites.
[01:36:51] Speaker A: I know it's, like, everyone's favorite. It's never really been one of mine, even though it's funny. But yeah, so it'll be.
[01:36:58] Speaker C: I just love the whole thing. Oh, wait, no, I guess kind of talk about it, but yeah, I just love it.
[01:37:04] Speaker A: Just a couple episodes.
[01:37:05] Speaker B: I don't remember anything, so I'm excited.
[01:37:08] Speaker C: One of the things I wanted to touch on earlier was that obviously when we move into, like, the urban setting, we get that kind of urban danger trope. And obviously we're talking about representation when it comes to Cali's gang. But I do think. I don't know whether this was intentional or not to kind of. There were, like, some racial impressions implications there that I don't know if it was maybe a commentary on the time specifically or if it wasn't or if it was not intentional, especially with Cali being, like, a South Asian character who's leading a gang made up largely of people of color that are framed as, like, vengeful, violent, and morally compromised. And then that ends with 11, who's a white protagonist, ultimately rejecting this group and returning to the predominantly white cast in Hawkins. So I just thought it was interesting that. That they. The worldviews now, like, narratively positioned as something that Eleven has to escape now. I. That could have been intentional as a. Maybe even a commentary on how people thought about things at the time.
[01:38:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:38:06] Speaker C: Or. Or not. Sometimes. You just never know with these writers whether or not.
[01:38:10] Speaker A: But so true.
[01:38:11] Speaker C: And that's. And the thing is, too, your casual viewer isn't really going to think about those things, but I think is it was something I thought was interesting. Interesting that, like, the other people were still viewed as quite, like, violent and kind of lack of morals.
[01:38:25] Speaker A: And that's true.
Yeah, that's a really good point. I hadn't really thought of that before, but, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, man. It's just like. And the thing is, is that, again, telly showrunners, it wouldn't be so glaringly obvious if you had a more diverse cast. I know we have Lucas and now Erica, but it's like if you had more people of color, if you had more Latin, Latino, if you have Asian representation, all of that stuff in your main cast of characters, when you do have situations like this where you have your other characters only as people of color, then you won't run into the problem that you're addressing. But since this is, like, the most people of color we've had on screen together, it makes it really.
Yeah. I think they were probably trying to say something more positive, and I think it came. If you dig deep into it, it comes across as, like, white Safet.
[01:39:19] Speaker B: Savior.
[01:39:20] Speaker A: Ism.
Yeah, good points, good points. Well, on that really fun, happy note.
[01:39:28] Speaker C: Yay.
Well, the fun. Well, the fun note we can end on is, like, by rejecting the group. This is. Elle defines herself as the hero, and she's aligned with our. With our friends in Hawkins. And that's exciting because she's been missing for the entire season.
[01:39:43] Speaker A: God, we get to see Elle with everybody else again. Revenge. Like, yeah, time. Time to have l come back at some point.
[01:39:52] Speaker B: Interesting. I don't remember.
[01:39:55] Speaker A: I literally didn't remember anything. Every episode is exciting.
It was so funny.
The day after we recorded last week with Brandon and Courtney, Brandon sent me a screenshot of him watching the Next episode because he'd watched all of season two up until that point and was like, I have to watch the next episode. And I was like, yeah, I don't blame you. It was kind of like a huge. A huge cliffhanger. But next episode is one of my favorite episodes ever.
It's so fun.
[01:40:20] Speaker B: Ever. Okay.
[01:40:22] Speaker A: It's okay.
[01:40:24] Speaker B: So good.
[01:40:24] Speaker A: The next two episodes actually are really good, but. All right, Tony, thank you so much for joining us. I'm glad your voice was healed enough for you.
[01:40:31] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this experience.
I mean, the last experience was great, but I felt like I just really enjoyed being back again with you guys to talk about. But no, thank you so much for having me. You guys are doing such a great job with this coverage. It's actually been, like, listening to it. Like, I've literally listened to most of the episodes. It's been making me so excit. Excited to like, to watch and be back a part of it, because it's. It's never a kind of type of. It's just different from the work you have done before. So I just wanted to commend you on doing it because it's. It's really fresh. Fresh and interesting.
[01:41:06] Speaker A: Oh, good. Yeah, it feels very different than what we've done before, but, like, I think. And again, Leia and I were talking about, like, oh, different show. So different format, different way of doing things. That's not always bad, but it's been like, I think a bit stretching to try and find something or do something that we're not as familiar with. But it's been fun. I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:41:27] Speaker C: No, you definitely. I think you're playing into your strengths with this season. Like, so, Sarah, your. All of your research and stuff doesn't feel like overdone. It feels like you. You really have got the right balance.
Even if you're striking that balance in the edit or. Or whether that's similar to the recording. And obviously, like, Leia, with your artwork and stuff and the. The clips and everything, it just, like, it looks. It just feels all like.
[01:41:52] Speaker A: It's just really well done, professional, and put together. Yeah, I agree.
[01:41:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:41:56] Speaker B: Sarah is doing those.
[01:42:00] Speaker A: You put the work. Yeah.
So I'm glad you did that. It feels a little more cohesive, so I agree with that.
[01:42:08] Speaker C: The branding of it is very good. The branding. Sorry, not the branding. The branding of it.
[01:42:13] Speaker B: What?
[01:42:14] Speaker A: Tony, remind us again, and our listeners where we can find you and what podcast you're on and where you're at and what you're doing and all that other stuff.
[01:42:22] Speaker C: So you can listen to our podcast, which is called All Bronze no Brains and it's a Buffy the Van Vampire Slayer visual companion podcast where me and my co host David go through the episodes chronologically, one at a time until one of us dies or the series ends. And we are.
We are literally all Bronze no Brains. On Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Spotify. You can find us in all of those places. We're currently just wrapping up our season four coverage and then we're going to be going into season five, which is very exciting.
[01:42:51] Speaker A: That's crazy. You guys are very nice flying through. I'm so excited for your season five coverage.
[01:42:57] Speaker C: We did season four in three and a half months.
Wow.
Yeah, we were really on the ball.
[01:43:05] Speaker B: Is just Wilds Davis loved it, which
[01:43:08] Speaker C: has been like the.
[01:43:09] Speaker A: That's really good.
[01:43:10] Speaker C: Really, really good. He's really. Cuz I was obviously worried that he would be like, what? But he, he really loved Primeval and he really loved Restless, even though we haven't recorded Restless yet. But yeah, he's. It's been so good. So I know he's going to love season three. Five. I'm so excited.
[01:43:24] Speaker A: I'm so excited. That's gonna be fun. But. All right, well, listeners, go check out Tony. Let us know what you guys thought of this episode. What do you guys think about Ki. What do you think about Elle's development? Is this an episode that you guys were like, oh, hate it. Worst episode ever. Or is it an episode that maybe you're like, it's not my favorite, but I can appreciate it. Or do you love it like Tony? Who knows? Let me know where you guys fall in the spectrum.
As always, thanks so much for listening and we will see you guys next time.
Thanks so much for listening to Investigating. If you enjoyed this podcast, feel free to follow, subscribe and review us on all platforms. You can also find us on Instagram at Investigating Podcast and you can continue to email us at investigating angel podcastmail.com.
